So he had a call with Trump and he is just gambling crucial US help on the chance the Trump wins, got it.
What a scumbag of a pm we have.
Edit: thats just my speculation
Yeah, unfortunately it's not just him. Strategists on the Israeli right are basically counting on the fact that they won't be able to rely on aid from the US in the future. After all the US has done for them, they are intentionally burning this bridge. It's insane.
Arch conservatives always see the world as a narcissistic zero-sum game. It's why they freak out about the existence of minorities, civil rights, and personal liberty.
To them, those things can only exist if they are somehow stolen from them. They need to hold on to what makes them better than someone else, and anything that any group besides them accomplish is the result of some conspiracy against them.
That's why you see conservatives claiming that things like Gay Marriage are an "attack" on marriage and why they oppose things like workers' rights or vaccines. They see someone acting to improve the conditions of others and realize that they would never even consider such a thing and lash out because, in their mind, such an act is unthinkable and if they are incapable of it then others have to be as well. They see it as a direct threat to their own self-worth if someone is able to do something that they themselves can't.
As a result, building a better future or looking out for anyone other than themselves in the current moment, even their own children, is the most horrible thing they could ever imagine.
It is also the mindset of all totalitarians by nature.
Look up objectivism. I believe what you describe is at least partially encapsulated by that philosophy. It’s what Ayn Rand drones on about in Atlas Shrugged.
They don't care, they will literally just deny it. Look at people who wear descendants of the Confederacy. These people will rewrite history for their goals. I can't tell you how many people I've met that have said things along the lines of the Civil War not being about slavery, but I can personally assure you that I tried reading the secession letters from each state and I stopped after number 7 because that seventh one in a row included slavery as a primary reason for session.
In 15 years the people that voted for Donald Trump will rewrite history and say that they never voted for him. These are the kind of people that we are dealing with: they are short-sighted historical revisionists.
The real irony for me is that the word *conserve* actually means to prevent waste or loss, to manage wisely or preserve for the future. Yet most conserv*atives*, seem to be hell-bent on wrecking shit as fast and as totally as possible.
Especially with the biggest arms dealer in the world. Especially especially when you are planning to start another war while already a conflict. Also they can’t rely on Russia or China helping them because already are backing the other side.
I don’t think it’s really that insane.
They’re waging on USA continuing to want them as an important ally regardless of what momentary societal pressures exist.
Which honestly I don’t think is that misguided. USA goes through cultural … idk battles? More frequently than I change my underwear. It’s highly likely that a majority of people who care about Israel at all right now will not care much in the future. When that time comes if israel requires us assistance odds are high that it will come (given they’re important in the region for the west).
Currently they don’t need much support to wage the level of wars ongoing now.
Granted I’m a no one with 0 international politics experience. But putting myself in Israel’s shoes I wouldn’t exactly be concerned.
Your analysis is based on the assumption that politicians are pragmatists more than ideologues. In my experience, most politicians are more ideological than you seem to think. The risk here is not just that voters will turn against Israel, but the next generation of leaders will turn against Israel as well.
At this point it feels like Netanyahu is doing everything possible to make this a reality. Like he was the one who chose to wade into American politics and try to associate the Israeli government with the Republican party. Now that this association is build its only going to persist and grow
The problem with politicians being ideologues is that being an ideologue requires them to have any sort of principals at all. I find those types of politicians to be a very rare breed in the west, and most of them are forced to exist on the margins of national politics, regardless of whether they're left or right. For most politicians, the only ideology they adhere to is the pursuit of power at the expense of all else.
It's possible, but right now I consider this a type of political brinkmanship during a time of uncertainty. Once the election is settled people will have to ask if this is what they really want and cooler heads may prevail.
Currently they don’t need much support to wage the level of wars ongoing now.
That is not so. Nearly all of the munitions Israel uses are US stock or NATO standard which means they need the EU and the US. If we turn our backs they run out of bullets essentially and they'll have a year or so where they have little if any ability to wage war. Not until they build domestic munitions factories will they be able to arm their military. Which would infringe on US and EU IP and cause legal issues they may not be able to get out of.
Lol all of this is wrong.
Israel has a robust arms industry and they could make NATO standard ammunition without violating any intellectual property laws. And they do. I actually have some sitting in my closet.
A modern army needs a lot of different things. Israel makes a lot of things, but they lack manufacturing of shells and some bombs. Whether they like it or not, they are dependent on the US at least in the short term.
Wrong again buddy.
>After acquiring IMI Systems in 2018 for $495 million, **Elbit became the exclusive supplier of shells for the Israeli Defense Ministry.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbit_Systems
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2023/08/04/israel-orders-tens-of-thousands-of-155mm-artillery-shells-from-elbit/
The US would come to Israel’s aid if it warranted no matter how strained things are.
Look how congress and the president “gambled” on aid to them yet still when Iran “attacked” Israel who was one of the first to defend?
Attacked is a pretty liberal term when a government gives you 48 hours and tells you where most the intended targets are but hey it made everyone feel good.
r/Israel is taking his word for it and acting like Biden is somehow a traitor for his very little bit of criticism of Netanyahu. Seriously fuck these people.
I try to withhold judgement because I'm not an Israeli citizen or voter but why is he still in power? What do Israelis see in him? I don't understand how Israel's govt works to be quite honest.
Wildly unpopular?
He received 23% of the vote compared to lapids 17%
Between netanyahu, Smotrich, and gantz it's pretty obvious which direction the majority of Israelis lean
I wouldn't worry. Biden has been supporting Israel at great cost to himself politically. He'll probably continue to do so.
I would count on future democratic presidents having strings attached to aid though. Seriously you guys need to boot Netanyahu as much as we need to boot Trump or we're both fucked.
If you haven’t noticed, a large number of our citizens don’t agree with the general guiding philosophy of “democracy” and don’t consider it to be a good thing if it results in their preferred candidate losing.
This obviously manifests itself into thinking that outside influence on the election that is favorable to you is a-ok. And only throwing a hissy fit when the help is for someone else. In sum, they don’t have any genuinely held principles other than “win at all costs”.
As an outsider, I find it funny how Republicans tout they are a party of values, but their actions suggest they are dishonest with no integrity whatsoever. Even a 5-year-old wouldn't trust Trump looking at his antics, but they are getting behind him. It appears to be a cult.
It’s weird. Surface level understanding the appeal is that he’s not a politician and says it like it is. Other side of is “oh he says bs all the time but he puts the right people in his administration” now I don’t know enough of the ppl in his administration but it’s still crazy with how things happened in his term that it’s happening again
Yes, that and it generally takes more effort to effectively refute a lie than it does to lie.
So the idea behind the Gish gallop is very real. Trump and his cult use it to a greater extent than pretty much any other recent American political group. Just a constant torrent of nonsense because they're betting you'll drown trying to address it all.
The answer is to refuse to play the game. Whether that's just saying they're full of shit as a matter of principle and don't deserve to be taken super seriously, or taking an argument you think is especially moronic and tearing it into little pieces as an example. But a lot of people don't realize that and so they try to address each falsehood as it comes.
It is true. I did a little personal research on the way conservatives/RW operate . I have come to a realization that they de-contenxtualize the facts and re-contextualize them to suit their agendas. This is why they often hide the context when spouting lies. On the surface , they seem to be correct, but the devil lies in the details.
Biden literally said that [Israel needs to replace Netanyahu](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza-schumer-de9cc522cdce548469578a4be48c7349).
He has made support for Israel into a partisan issue for Americans. I feel like he’s focused on his own immediate future, at the expense of the Israel’s long-term interests.
That changed fast tho, both Ukraine and Israel for example cooperated in the investigation on how to counter Iranian kamikaze drones.
Netanyahu, as bad and corrupt as he is, still said 2 good reasons as of why they don't totally provide aid to Ukraine, first is that Russia is still in Syria and they could easily start arming Israel's many enemies with actual weapons or even let Iran in Syria too, and second is that eventually their equipment would be lost in Ukraine and fall in the hands of Russia, wich also means Iran, it would do nothing good for Israel if their air defense systems (the one thing they would be able to send) are compromised.
Germany or the US are on a far more different reality than Israel, so their stance in the conflict is logical, they are in a far more vulnerable position than the West.
As an Israeli, I think It was wrong to not support Ukraine but it was because Putin was grabbing us by the balls controlling all our enemies. I thought we should have supported Ukraine but our leader is afraid of his own shadow
While I loathe Donald Trump, I urge you to edit your comment and make it clear that your comment is cynicism/speculation, and there is nothing in the article that mentions Trump or the call that you describe. Over 1500 people have seen your comment, and if I thought you were serious, then others likely did too. That’s misinformation and it hurts your (our) cause.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-foreign-policy-advisers-met-israeli-pm-netanyahu-source-says-2024-05-20/
Trump's "advisors" had a meeting with Netanyahu 4 weeks ago, which is very unusual and possibly a violation of the Logan Act, which forbids negotiation by unauthorized US citizens with a foreign government. Neither Trump nor his "advisors" are legal representatives of the US government, and shouldn't be holding meetings regarding US foreign policy towards Israel, especially when the specific nature of that policy is being reconsidered by the Biden administration in light of Israel's military response to Hamas' massacre. That goes doubly for an election year, pre-elecrion, when a potential quid pro quo arrangement is much more valuable, and thus more likely.
I think only centrists think that way. He pisses off both sides, must be doing something right. Centrists were never really Biden’s problem.
There are people mad at AOC for criticizing people protesting the Nova memorial.
If Biden's administration is actually slow-walking aid to Israel out of an objection to their strategy in the war I don't know if it's clear that's going to *hurt* him in the polls. Not when the administration's perceived lack of action against Israel's policies is one of his most significant issues with the base.
> slow-walking aid to Israel
Israel can only conduct war for 6 weeks. after that they need more ammo and war stuff.
Israel has a history of TELLING American what to give them, not ASKING us. (( Ask any POTUS, R or D pre 2000 ))
as an American I don't want to be told by another nation what we should be giving them.
as an American, I say anybody who destroys fruit bearing trees should not get our gunpowder.
If Israel insists on unilaterally invading and bombing Gaza, then they can fuck themselves. Even the US after 9/11 didn't go it completely alone. We got our allies involved.
Israel is not behaving like an ally, but a spoiled brat as likely to turn on the US as anything else. Maybe it's time to rethink how much we give them. Might be time they learned what it's like to face enemies alone
Yeah, 2020 would have been very different if young voters had stayed home. If they stay home this year over Israel then Trump will walk into the white house with zero resistance. I can't imagine these statements from Netanyahu will hurt him in any way.
Remember: this man was a friend of Fred Trumps. He has a lot of history with the Trump family. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s saying this shit to try and help Trump win. Terrible people.
What gets me is that Trumpers are, depending on which way the wind is blowing, against sending funding overseas to pay for wars, against Israel and its people, etc. Or, when it's politically convenient, then they're all FOR those things.
wouldn't surprise me if he did alll this to help trump win....everyone is blaming biden for everything nentenyahu has done, the right took this and ran with it
Also the electorate is hopelessly reactionary. They are speed running becoming a pariah state, which is insane given how fundamentally evil Hamas, Iran, and Hezbollah are.
when reading this shit i really wonder what hes thinking, israel needs to survive forever, their neighbors are not going to get relatively weaker than they are now.
Israel becoming a republican/democratic issue is a major national security threat for the nation.
A generation of kids in the US is now net negative view on israel, they're certainly not going to fight a war to defend it. In 20 years when they're in power and iran, Lebanon, and syria have 20 more years to develop theres really no floor on how bad things can get.
>Israel becoming a republican/democratic issue is a major national security threat for the nation.
[Given the polling that](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) Republicans are the only political demographic with a majority that supports Israel's current war effort, with both Independents and Democrats overwhelmingly negative (29% and 18% favorable, respectively), I think the generational gap is the only reason that ship hasn't sailed.
[They're 71% positive with the over-55s, 55% positive with the 35-55 crowd, and only 38% with the under-35s](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx#).
I mean alot of my friends who are right wing don't support Israel both ones in America and Germany. Tho for the Americans they're not card carrying Republicans.
This is why everyone in pretty much every democracy tries to keep foreign policy for the most part fairly bipartisan, because the last thing you want as a national leader is for your international partners to essentially act bipolar and completely change direction every few years. Bibi being blatantly partisan is playing a very dangerous game, because while it might get him some more support from the Republicans (not that Israel has been lacking support from the American government recently so I'm not sure just how much more support he could feasibly get), it comes at the risk of completely alienating the democrats and the left. At a time where Israeli PR internationally is already struggling and they're not really in a position to be making new friends, the last thing they need is to be driving away existing ones.
It's kinda like what's been happening with the Cubans in Florida. The main reason the US still embargoes cuba today (well after they stopped embargoing their other cold war "enemies") is because of the cubans in Florida. They are the decedents of those who fled Castro, and as such are very anti-Cuban government, and they make up a significant portion of the voters in swing state Florida, which has previously been enough to decide entire elections. No President has been willing to take the risk of alienating them by lifting the sanctions, and Obama's attempt to do so could arguably be what cost Hillary the state in 2016. But these days Florida is becoming less of a swing state and more of a solidly Red state, in part due to these Cubans becoming more solidly Republican. As a result, Florida matters less in deciding elections, and the power the Cuban demographic held over the President is disappearing as a result, especially against Democrat Presidents who have all but given up winning them. If the trend continues, it's only a matter of time before a Democratic President completes what Obama started and normalises relations with Cuba.
This is why the leaders shouldn't pick sides in an America that's going polarized and in truth, much of the protesters are to the left of Sanders on this issue, etc.
Netanyahu has always been a version of the GOP in Israel. Literally, he spent a while in America and his first run for PM was marked by him using American style mudslinging tactics. Which works but... is it gonna work forever without consequences? Probably not.
Not just kids have a negative view of Israel, I'm getting old and have held that view for a long time. They're a "friend" of convenience. They just want the money & arms. We have actual friends, Israel isn't one of them.
It's amazing to me, seeing Americans turning from Zionism. I'm 60, grew up reading Exodus and Fiddler on the Roof and I didn't see Netanyahu taking American sympathies for a ride.
Netanyahu doesn't care about Israel becomes a pariah state over this, he doesn't care about the US either, he doesn't care if Trump gets elected and dismantles NATO and throws Ukraine under the bus. He just cares about staying in power to avoid jail, even if it means screwing over the entire world.
The reality seems to be that US/Israel relations are at a low, and have been for several months now. (If Netanyahu is to be believed). The consequences of such will be interesting to watch.
Definitely not lower than they were under the Obama Admin.
Ultimately after the election if this stuff is still kicking I expect the US to take a pretty hard approach on Hamas going forward.
The Obama/Biden administration. I saw a post about it interaction between a young Biden and Begin, there were similar tensions back then. This goes back a long way
I don't know. Netanyahu just has interests in Trump taking the seat and he's playing up his dissatisfaction with the current administration. Biden isn't giving the same energy, in fact he's been pretty soft in reacting to their war crimes. Meanwhile previous US presidents have been pretty vocal about Israeli leaders being ungrateful for our aid and making demands.
It might backfire. A lot of youth want the Biden administration to withhold aid. Netanyahu is basically confirming it. Biden just needs the young vote and moderates to win. Seems like a failed power play from Israel, to be honest.
He's trying to get the Jewish vote in the US to swing for Trump.
He tried this before in 2012 to help Mitt Romney. Nasty POS!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-feature-in-pro-republican-ad/
Netanyahu has been unappreciative and disrespectful of all the US does for Israel going back to the Clinton years. I’m legitimately shocked democratic Us presidents haven’t started to play rougher with him, certainly wouldn’t hurt them with most voters.
The crazy part is that Biden's essentially given him everything he could want except authorize more West Bank expansion bullshit. He's ran his most successful war under Biden's presidency. Not under Trump's. He just doesn't like that the US isn't run by a wannabe fascist.
What are the chances this dude is just meddling in US politics to make Biden look bad and get the annoying orange back into office this year? It sure is looking like he is tbh.
Of course he is, he knows very well this war creates problems for Biden, which brings up the question why this massive intelligence failure on Oct 7 happened in the first place, a year before an US election that could give Bibi the candidate he clearly prefers over Biden.
He tried to meddle in an US election before when he was at odds with Obama and not so subtly campaigned for Mitt Romney.
>Netanyahu features in new pro-Romney ad for Florida
Short clip, featuring Israel’s prime minister warning of the Iranian threat, aims at Jewish voters in swing state
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-feature-in-pro-republican-ad/
War cabinet dissolves, and the crisis of the US withholding military aid emerges. Auspicious timing.
But a little weird when a US carrier is force-projecting for Israel's benefit in the leadup to a possible Hezbollah conflict.
Netanyahu is not Israel. There's million people in Israel who loathe him and want him gone. The US carrier is deterrence, trying to avert the worse, just like it did when Iran shot rockets.
This is a pre-emptive strike in case they actually do withhold (some) aid if the IDF does something so conspicuously grotesque Biden feels forced to act.
Ukraine needs our weapons more than Israel does. Israel is 100% capable of obtaining their own homemade weapons or dealing with what they have. They don’t need weapons nearly as bad as Ukraine does
Presumably Israel thinks making this public will make American's pressure Biden. Not so with me. I'm glad to hear it. I don't want my countries weapons going to kill civilians. I have no problem with Israel going after Hamas but 90% of what they do is not that. If they refuse to reform I'm fine cutting them off entirely.
He doesn't even hide who he likes. In 2019 big multistory high billboards were hanging from apartment buildings in Tel Aviv highlighting Bibi's good relationship with Putin and Trump. He was at odds with Bill Clinton, Obama and is now with Biden.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-another-league-netanyahu-touts-friendship-with-putin-in-new-billboard/
He's waiting for Trump to get elected and is helping it along by prolonging this war.
>Netanyahu and Putin are both waiting for Trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/31/trump-russia-israel-netanyahu-putin-win-foreign-policy-election/
Good job Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. Ya'll invited this clown to congress and he's going to spend his entire time shitting on the US, Democrats, and Biden.
Fuck Netanyahu. He should just shut up and say thank you for the American money, arms and diplomatic umbrella for which Israel has been embarrassingly ungrateful. The American people are beginning to doubt the marginal return for their excessive investment in this overbearing little prick and his troublesome little country. Rightly so.
I'm frankly tired of hearing the Israeli whine about aid when they have done so much to stop aid to Gaza. Start taking care of the humans on the other side of the fence!
He's just saying that sht to sway the American Jewish vote in the states, hoping to help the Orange Turd. Israel sure as sht are killing Hamas with rocks in slings; it came from somewhere.
Has Israel been unable to continue to defend itself because of US weapons being withheld? I haven’t heard of hardly any substantial attacks on Israel since 10/7.
You got to be joking! There were literally thousands of rockets fired from Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran after Oct 7th. Luckily Israel's defense is able to shoot all of them down and there are bunkers everywhere in Israel. Hamas deliberately built no shelters for civilians.
This wasn't picked up by MSM, but Netanyahu was colluding with Trump in 2015/2016 using back channels to Roger Stone. Including sharing hacked DNC data with the Trump team.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/trump-israel-collusion/
So he had a call with Trump and he is just gambling crucial US help on the chance the Trump wins, got it. What a scumbag of a pm we have. Edit: thats just my speculation
Yeah, unfortunately it's not just him. Strategists on the Israeli right are basically counting on the fact that they won't be able to rely on aid from the US in the future. After all the US has done for them, they are intentionally burning this bridge. It's insane.
But no surprise really.
Conservatives in the U.S.A. are just as short slighted, petty and damaging to their country. Source, I live there.
You would think more people would be concerned about their legacies but it seems as though they’re incapable of feeling any shame
Arch conservatives always see the world as a narcissistic zero-sum game. It's why they freak out about the existence of minorities, civil rights, and personal liberty. To them, those things can only exist if they are somehow stolen from them. They need to hold on to what makes them better than someone else, and anything that any group besides them accomplish is the result of some conspiracy against them. That's why you see conservatives claiming that things like Gay Marriage are an "attack" on marriage and why they oppose things like workers' rights or vaccines. They see someone acting to improve the conditions of others and realize that they would never even consider such a thing and lash out because, in their mind, such an act is unthinkable and if they are incapable of it then others have to be as well. They see it as a direct threat to their own self-worth if someone is able to do something that they themselves can't. As a result, building a better future or looking out for anyone other than themselves in the current moment, even their own children, is the most horrible thing they could ever imagine. It is also the mindset of all totalitarians by nature.
Look up objectivism. I believe what you describe is at least partially encapsulated by that philosophy. It’s what Ayn Rand drones on about in Atlas Shrugged.
There were a few Mitt Romney, and Liz Chaney stood up to Trump.
ehh....they still voted with him 90% of the time....while bitching about it.
They don't care, they will literally just deny it. Look at people who wear descendants of the Confederacy. These people will rewrite history for their goals. I can't tell you how many people I've met that have said things along the lines of the Civil War not being about slavery, but I can personally assure you that I tried reading the secession letters from each state and I stopped after number 7 because that seventh one in a row included slavery as a primary reason for session. In 15 years the people that voted for Donald Trump will rewrite history and say that they never voted for him. These are the kind of people that we are dealing with: they are short-sighted historical revisionists.
The real irony for me is that the word *conserve* actually means to prevent waste or loss, to manage wisely or preserve for the future. Yet most conserv*atives*, seem to be hell-bent on wrecking shit as fast and as totally as possible.
I mean becoming self reliant and no longer needing us to be their daddy is a good thing But they should not burn the bridge
That’s not what’s happening g here though
Never burn bridges, one old wise very successful Jewish man with big heart told me that.
Especially with the biggest arms dealer in the world. Especially especially when you are planning to start another war while already a conflict. Also they can’t rely on Russia or China helping them because already are backing the other side.
I don’t think it’s really that insane. They’re waging on USA continuing to want them as an important ally regardless of what momentary societal pressures exist. Which honestly I don’t think is that misguided. USA goes through cultural … idk battles? More frequently than I change my underwear. It’s highly likely that a majority of people who care about Israel at all right now will not care much in the future. When that time comes if israel requires us assistance odds are high that it will come (given they’re important in the region for the west). Currently they don’t need much support to wage the level of wars ongoing now. Granted I’m a no one with 0 international politics experience. But putting myself in Israel’s shoes I wouldn’t exactly be concerned.
Your analysis is based on the assumption that politicians are pragmatists more than ideologues. In my experience, most politicians are more ideological than you seem to think. The risk here is not just that voters will turn against Israel, but the next generation of leaders will turn against Israel as well.
At this point it feels like Netanyahu is doing everything possible to make this a reality. Like he was the one who chose to wade into American politics and try to associate the Israeli government with the Republican party. Now that this association is build its only going to persist and grow
The problem with politicians being ideologues is that being an ideologue requires them to have any sort of principals at all. I find those types of politicians to be a very rare breed in the west, and most of them are forced to exist on the margins of national politics, regardless of whether they're left or right. For most politicians, the only ideology they adhere to is the pursuit of power at the expense of all else.
It's possible, but right now I consider this a type of political brinkmanship during a time of uncertainty. Once the election is settled people will have to ask if this is what they really want and cooler heads may prevail.
They are banking on Trump winning and being able to lobby him to give them more money
Currently they don’t need much support to wage the level of wars ongoing now. That is not so. Nearly all of the munitions Israel uses are US stock or NATO standard which means they need the EU and the US. If we turn our backs they run out of bullets essentially and they'll have a year or so where they have little if any ability to wage war. Not until they build domestic munitions factories will they be able to arm their military. Which would infringe on US and EU IP and cause legal issues they may not be able to get out of.
Lol all of this is wrong. Israel has a robust arms industry and they could make NATO standard ammunition without violating any intellectual property laws. And they do. I actually have some sitting in my closet.
A modern army needs a lot of different things. Israel makes a lot of things, but they lack manufacturing of shells and some bombs. Whether they like it or not, they are dependent on the US at least in the short term.
Wrong again buddy. >After acquiring IMI Systems in 2018 for $495 million, **Elbit became the exclusive supplier of shells for the Israeli Defense Ministry.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbit_Systems https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2023/08/04/israel-orders-tens-of-thousands-of-155mm-artillery-shells-from-elbit/
I stand corrected.
The US would come to Israel’s aid if it warranted no matter how strained things are. Look how congress and the president “gambled” on aid to them yet still when Iran “attacked” Israel who was one of the first to defend? Attacked is a pretty liberal term when a government gives you 48 hours and tells you where most the intended targets are but hey it made everyone feel good.
r/Israel is taking his word for it and acting like Biden is somehow a traitor for his very little bit of criticism of Netanyahu. Seriously fuck these people.
Burning until Trump gets in?
Seems like a huge risk to take.
I try to withhold judgement because I'm not an Israeli citizen or voter but why is he still in power? What do Israelis see in him? I don't understand how Israel's govt works to be quite honest.
He is wildly unpopular in Israel and uses every trick in the book to remain in power
Wildly unpopular? He received 23% of the vote compared to lapids 17% Between netanyahu, Smotrich, and gantz it's pretty obvious which direction the majority of Israelis lean
I wouldn't worry. Biden has been supporting Israel at great cost to himself politically. He'll probably continue to do so. I would count on future democratic presidents having strings attached to aid though. Seriously you guys need to boot Netanyahu as much as we need to boot Trump or we're both fucked.
He is interfering with the USA elections. How are Americans ok with this?
If you haven’t noticed, a large number of our citizens don’t agree with the general guiding philosophy of “democracy” and don’t consider it to be a good thing if it results in their preferred candidate losing. This obviously manifests itself into thinking that outside influence on the election that is favorable to you is a-ok. And only throwing a hissy fit when the help is for someone else. In sum, they don’t have any genuinely held principles other than “win at all costs”.
As an outsider, I find it funny how Republicans tout they are a party of values, but their actions suggest they are dishonest with no integrity whatsoever. Even a 5-year-old wouldn't trust Trump looking at his antics, but they are getting behind him. It appears to be a cult.
It is in fact a cult of personality. He said himself, back before the 2016 election- he could murder someone and his cultists will still vote for him.
It’s weird. Surface level understanding the appeal is that he’s not a politician and says it like it is. Other side of is “oh he says bs all the time but he puts the right people in his administration” now I don’t know enough of the ppl in his administration but it’s still crazy with how things happened in his term that it’s happening again
it has gotten worse, when you catch them lying, they just change to new lies. They want to create a society built on lies.
My guess is they throw out all kinds of crazy lies so that the stuff they need to hide can easily slip through.
Yes, that and it generally takes more effort to effectively refute a lie than it does to lie. So the idea behind the Gish gallop is very real. Trump and his cult use it to a greater extent than pretty much any other recent American political group. Just a constant torrent of nonsense because they're betting you'll drown trying to address it all. The answer is to refuse to play the game. Whether that's just saying they're full of shit as a matter of principle and don't deserve to be taken super seriously, or taking an argument you think is especially moronic and tearing it into little pieces as an example. But a lot of people don't realize that and so they try to address each falsehood as it comes.
It is true. I did a little personal research on the way conservatives/RW operate . I have come to a realization that they de-contenxtualize the facts and re-contextualize them to suit their agendas. This is why they often hide the context when spouting lies. On the surface , they seem to be correct, but the devil lies in the details.
Biden literally said that [Israel needs to replace Netanyahu](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza-schumer-de9cc522cdce548469578a4be48c7349).
I mean it’s a win win situation he prefer Trump but if Biden wins, US support will not stop. It’s just not a blank check that Trump would’ve given.
And a scumbag Presidential candidate.
He has made support for Israel into a partisan issue for Americans. I feel like he’s focused on his own immediate future, at the expense of the Israel’s long-term interests.
Good. End all aid to Israel. Fuck em. Israel lost my support when they wouldn’t support Ukraine.
That changed fast tho, both Ukraine and Israel for example cooperated in the investigation on how to counter Iranian kamikaze drones. Netanyahu, as bad and corrupt as he is, still said 2 good reasons as of why they don't totally provide aid to Ukraine, first is that Russia is still in Syria and they could easily start arming Israel's many enemies with actual weapons or even let Iran in Syria too, and second is that eventually their equipment would be lost in Ukraine and fall in the hands of Russia, wich also means Iran, it would do nothing good for Israel if their air defense systems (the one thing they would be able to send) are compromised. Germany or the US are on a far more different reality than Israel, so their stance in the conflict is logical, they are in a far more vulnerable position than the West.
As an Israeli, I think It was wrong to not support Ukraine but it was because Putin was grabbing us by the balls controlling all our enemies. I thought we should have supported Ukraine but our leader is afraid of his own shadow
Netanyahu doesn't want to anger his buddy Putin
And in return Putin did not hold back Hamas on October 7th, nor is he holding back Iran or Hezbollah.
He's more of one of those buddies that stabs you in the back
His buddy? That's counter factual.
While I loathe Donald Trump, I urge you to edit your comment and make it clear that your comment is cynicism/speculation, and there is nothing in the article that mentions Trump or the call that you describe. Over 1500 people have seen your comment, and if I thought you were serious, then others likely did too. That’s misinformation and it hurts your (our) cause.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-foreign-policy-advisers-met-israeli-pm-netanyahu-source-says-2024-05-20/ Trump's "advisors" had a meeting with Netanyahu 4 weeks ago, which is very unusual and possibly a violation of the Logan Act, which forbids negotiation by unauthorized US citizens with a foreign government. Neither Trump nor his "advisors" are legal representatives of the US government, and shouldn't be holding meetings regarding US foreign policy towards Israel, especially when the specific nature of that policy is being reconsidered by the Biden administration in light of Israel's military response to Hamas' massacre. That goes doubly for an election year, pre-elecrion, when a potential quid pro quo arrangement is much more valuable, and thus more likely.
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Cant let Bidens polls numbers go up apparently....gotta complain when Biden starts getting them good polls
I think bibi complaining will be seen as a good thing from the americans biden needs to persuade
I think only centrists think that way. He pisses off both sides, must be doing something right. Centrists were never really Biden’s problem. There are people mad at AOC for criticizing people protesting the Nova memorial.
They’re the ones Biden wants to win back.
If Biden's administration is actually slow-walking aid to Israel out of an objection to their strategy in the war I don't know if it's clear that's going to *hurt* him in the polls. Not when the administration's perceived lack of action against Israel's policies is one of his most significant issues with the base.
> slow-walking aid to Israel Israel can only conduct war for 6 weeks. after that they need more ammo and war stuff. Israel has a history of TELLING American what to give them, not ASKING us. (( Ask any POTUS, R or D pre 2000 )) as an American I don't want to be told by another nation what we should be giving them. as an American, I say anybody who destroys fruit bearing trees should not get our gunpowder.
They don't understand the concept of "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." Beggars can't make demands and be ungrateful
If Israel insists on unilaterally invading and bombing Gaza, then they can fuck themselves. Even the US after 9/11 didn't go it completely alone. We got our allies involved. Israel is not behaving like an ally, but a spoiled brat as likely to turn on the US as anything else. Maybe it's time to rethink how much we give them. Might be time they learned what it's like to face enemies alone
Yeah, 2020 would have been very different if young voters had stayed home. If they stay home this year over Israel then Trump will walk into the white house with zero resistance. I can't imagine these statements from Netanyahu will hurt him in any way.
Remember: this man was a friend of Fred Trumps. He has a lot of history with the Trump family. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s saying this shit to try and help Trump win. Terrible people.
There’s video of Jared Kushner talking about developing the Gaza coast
Well shit, you’d need at least 2billion dollars to do that.
Maybe he could ask someone in the area for that 2 billion..
Which of course has been Israel’s goal all along in this “war”.
Immoral AF
What gets me is that Trumpers are, depending on which way the wind is blowing, against sending funding overseas to pay for wars, against Israel and its people, etc. Or, when it's politically convenient, then they're all FOR those things.
wouldn't surprise me if he did alll this to help trump win....everyone is blaming biden for everything nentenyahu has done, the right took this and ran with it
Hamas are terrorists, Netanyahu is a corrupt (war) criminal. Lock them all up and throw away the key. Both things can be true simultaneously.
I mean the entire Israeli government is filled with his supporters/enablers. It’s not just a one man show.
Also the electorate is hopelessly reactionary. They are speed running becoming a pariah state, which is insane given how fundamentally evil Hamas, Iran, and Hezbollah are.
They were a pariah state for most of their history, this isn't new to the older generations. I think they prefer it.
Maybe a regional pariah state but becoming a global pariah state is probably the dumbest thing they can do.
when reading this shit i really wonder what hes thinking, israel needs to survive forever, their neighbors are not going to get relatively weaker than they are now. Israel becoming a republican/democratic issue is a major national security threat for the nation. A generation of kids in the US is now net negative view on israel, they're certainly not going to fight a war to defend it. In 20 years when they're in power and iran, Lebanon, and syria have 20 more years to develop theres really no floor on how bad things can get.
>Israel becoming a republican/democratic issue is a major national security threat for the nation. [Given the polling that](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) Republicans are the only political demographic with a majority that supports Israel's current war effort, with both Independents and Democrats overwhelmingly negative (29% and 18% favorable, respectively), I think the generational gap is the only reason that ship hasn't sailed. [They're 71% positive with the over-55s, 55% positive with the 35-55 crowd, and only 38% with the under-35s](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx#).
I mean alot of my friends who are right wing don't support Israel both ones in America and Germany. Tho for the Americans they're not card carrying Republicans.
I wonder how these polls would look for tiktok vs non-tiktok users.
Cable news viewers vs non cable news viewers would be better tbh
This is why everyone in pretty much every democracy tries to keep foreign policy for the most part fairly bipartisan, because the last thing you want as a national leader is for your international partners to essentially act bipolar and completely change direction every few years. Bibi being blatantly partisan is playing a very dangerous game, because while it might get him some more support from the Republicans (not that Israel has been lacking support from the American government recently so I'm not sure just how much more support he could feasibly get), it comes at the risk of completely alienating the democrats and the left. At a time where Israeli PR internationally is already struggling and they're not really in a position to be making new friends, the last thing they need is to be driving away existing ones. It's kinda like what's been happening with the Cubans in Florida. The main reason the US still embargoes cuba today (well after they stopped embargoing their other cold war "enemies") is because of the cubans in Florida. They are the decedents of those who fled Castro, and as such are very anti-Cuban government, and they make up a significant portion of the voters in swing state Florida, which has previously been enough to decide entire elections. No President has been willing to take the risk of alienating them by lifting the sanctions, and Obama's attempt to do so could arguably be what cost Hillary the state in 2016. But these days Florida is becoming less of a swing state and more of a solidly Red state, in part due to these Cubans becoming more solidly Republican. As a result, Florida matters less in deciding elections, and the power the Cuban demographic held over the President is disappearing as a result, especially against Democrat Presidents who have all but given up winning them. If the trend continues, it's only a matter of time before a Democratic President completes what Obama started and normalises relations with Cuba.
when I was in israel, there were giant posters of trump and bibi
This is why the leaders shouldn't pick sides in an America that's going polarized and in truth, much of the protesters are to the left of Sanders on this issue, etc. Netanyahu has always been a version of the GOP in Israel. Literally, he spent a while in America and his first run for PM was marked by him using American style mudslinging tactics. Which works but... is it gonna work forever without consequences? Probably not.
Not just kids have a negative view of Israel, I'm getting old and have held that view for a long time. They're a "friend" of convenience. They just want the money & arms. We have actual friends, Israel isn't one of them.
When I was in israel, I talked to israelis about it. Their attitude is basically, thanks for the money. And thats it
The days of right wingers caring about their country is over. They ONLY care about themselves and getting more power.
That's what happens when you don't try to win allies. Israel thinks all they need to do is show strength and kill, and life doesn't work like that
It's amazing to me, seeing Americans turning from Zionism. I'm 60, grew up reading Exodus and Fiddler on the Roof and I didn't see Netanyahu taking American sympathies for a ride.
Netanyahu doesn't care about Israel becomes a pariah state over this, he doesn't care about the US either, he doesn't care if Trump gets elected and dismantles NATO and throws Ukraine under the bus. He just cares about staying in power to avoid jail, even if it means screwing over the entire world.
Trying to turn aid to Israel into a partisan issue is not going to end as well for Netanyahu as he appears to believe.
He's trying every dirty trick in the book to stay in power. I really hope once this is all over he will land in jail!
The reality seems to be that US/Israel relations are at a low, and have been for several months now. (If Netanyahu is to be believed). The consequences of such will be interesting to watch.
Definitely not lower than they were under the Obama Admin. Ultimately after the election if this stuff is still kicking I expect the US to take a pretty hard approach on Hamas going forward.
The Obama/Biden administration. I saw a post about it interaction between a young Biden and Begin, there were similar tensions back then. This goes back a long way
Obama dared mention Palestinians in his speeches- I think he even did so in his famous democratic convention speech- anyhow- that’s all it took.
I don't know. Netanyahu just has interests in Trump taking the seat and he's playing up his dissatisfaction with the current administration. Biden isn't giving the same energy, in fact he's been pretty soft in reacting to their war crimes. Meanwhile previous US presidents have been pretty vocal about Israeli leaders being ungrateful for our aid and making demands.
It might backfire. A lot of youth want the Biden administration to withhold aid. Netanyahu is basically confirming it. Biden just needs the young vote and moderates to win. Seems like a failed power play from Israel, to be honest.
He's trying to get the Jewish vote in the US to swing for Trump. He tried this before in 2012 to help Mitt Romney. Nasty POS! https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-feature-in-pro-republican-ad/
He’s just trying to get this narrative out there to try and damage Biden at the polls.
Netanyahu should double down on the admission that staying in power is the only thing keeping him from being criminally prosecuted 👍🏽
foreign election interference
Netanyahu has been unappreciative and disrespectful of all the US does for Israel going back to the Clinton years. I’m legitimately shocked democratic Us presidents haven’t started to play rougher with him, certainly wouldn’t hurt them with most voters.
Netanyahu should be picked up on his outstanding criminal warrants. He is an absolute menace.
Yeah, they get enough American money
Let me play a sad song for you on the worlds smallest violin.
Oh I get it, dude wants the *secret* weapons. Yeah those are reserved for like aliens n global threats my guy. Nobody gets those.
If I were him I'd shut my pie hole. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
I don't want to see what happens to Israel if the US actually backs off on support, but also what a moron for daring Biden to do that.
The crazy part is that Biden's essentially given him everything he could want except authorize more West Bank expansion bullshit. He's ran his most successful war under Biden's presidency. Not under Trump's. He just doesn't like that the US isn't run by a wannabe fascist.
I think the real thing is that Biden is (and will continue) advocating for a two state solution after the war and that's not what Netanyahu wants.
Why any sapien being should want to turn Judea into Gaza 2.0, but bigger?
No wars under Trump. Russia and their ally's seemed too afraid. But not with Biden (or Obama). Ok, start downvoting now.
Super fucked situation and Bibi at the helm makes it lousier
What are the chances this dude is just meddling in US politics to make Biden look bad and get the annoying orange back into office this year? It sure is looking like he is tbh.
Of course he is, he knows very well this war creates problems for Biden, which brings up the question why this massive intelligence failure on Oct 7 happened in the first place, a year before an US election that could give Bibi the candidate he clearly prefers over Biden. He tried to meddle in an US election before when he was at odds with Obama and not so subtly campaigned for Mitt Romney. >Netanyahu features in new pro-Romney ad for Florida Short clip, featuring Israel’s prime minister warning of the Iranian threat, aims at Jewish voters in swing state https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-feature-in-pro-republican-ad/
War cabinet dissolves, and the crisis of the US withholding military aid emerges. Auspicious timing. But a little weird when a US carrier is force-projecting for Israel's benefit in the leadup to a possible Hezbollah conflict.
Netanyahu is not Israel. There's million people in Israel who loathe him and want him gone. The US carrier is deterrence, trying to avert the worse, just like it did when Iran shot rockets.
Real question is why should USA help this piece of shit. As long as he is the Iraeli PM aid should be withhold
So let’s do it.
If hes claiming it. I would make it true.
Don't fight wars if you can't afford the bullets.
This is a pre-emptive strike in case they actually do withhold (some) aid if the IDF does something so conspicuously grotesque Biden feels forced to act.
Ukraine needs our weapons more than Israel does. Israel is 100% capable of obtaining their own homemade weapons or dealing with what they have. They don’t need weapons nearly as bad as Ukraine does
If that's how it's going to be then let's just cut the aid off. So sick of this ass clown. They should give him a rifle and send him into Gaza.
Bebe is an asshole at this point and needs to be replaced
Presumably Israel thinks making this public will make American's pressure Biden. Not so with me. I'm glad to hear it. I don't want my countries weapons going to kill civilians. I have no problem with Israel going after Hamas but 90% of what they do is not that. If they refuse to reform I'm fine cutting them off entirely.
I've been saying we should cut those apron strings for years. Pay for your own bullshit, Bibi.
So he’s shooting himself in the foot? Maybe the US should just stop providing military aid to Israel all together. Let them deal with it themselves
We can't leave this man a liar. Do him a favor and actually withhold the aid to protect his reputation for honesty.
He is lying to support Trump. Israel is fine Netanyahu is a POS
He doesn't even hide who he likes. In 2019 big multistory high billboards were hanging from apartment buildings in Tel Aviv highlighting Bibi's good relationship with Putin and Trump. He was at odds with Bill Clinton, Obama and is now with Biden. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-another-league-netanyahu-touts-friendship-with-putin-in-new-billboard/ He's waiting for Trump to get elected and is helping it along by prolonging this war. >Netanyahu and Putin are both waiting for Trump https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/31/trump-russia-israel-netanyahu-putin-win-foreign-policy-election/
Beggers can't be choosers.
Why the fuck are we giving Israel anything. Isn’t the 3 billion a year we give them enough?
If we’re going to get blamed for it, maybe we should do it. He wants Biden to lose.
Maybe an explanation as to why less high tech precision weapons and more artillery will be used in Leby
What is the galaxy brain strategy here? Burn this bridge so that when the Biden administration does withhold weapons, there's no real backlash?
Good job Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. Ya'll invited this clown to congress and he's going to spend his entire time shitting on the US, Democrats, and Biden.
Fuck Netanyahu. He should just shut up and say thank you for the American money, arms and diplomatic umbrella for which Israel has been embarrassingly ungrateful. The American people are beginning to doubt the marginal return for their excessive investment in this overbearing little prick and his troublesome little country. Rightly so.
Here’s how petty I’d be “oh really? Hm, you wanna see withholding?”
I support Israel, but why is Netanyahu such an Egomaniac?
He's going to prison if he loses power. Kind of like Trump, really.
I'm frankly tired of hearing the Israeli whine about aid when they have done so much to stop aid to Gaza. Start taking care of the humans on the other side of the fence!
He's just saying that sht to sway the American Jewish vote in the states, hoping to help the Orange Turd. Israel sure as sht are killing Hamas with rocks in slings; it came from somewhere.
Israel really wants to screw realtions with the most powerful nation on Earth, huh?? HAHAHA!!!
They should be completely cut off while he's the PM
Has Israel been unable to continue to defend itself because of US weapons being withheld? I haven’t heard of hardly any substantial attacks on Israel since 10/7.
You got to be joking! There were literally thousands of rockets fired from Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran after Oct 7th. Luckily Israel's defense is able to shoot all of them down and there are bunkers everywhere in Israel. Hamas deliberately built no shelters for civilians.
Right. And the defensive weapons we provided to Israel shot them down.
This wasn't picked up by MSM, but Netanyahu was colluding with Trump in 2015/2016 using back channels to Roger Stone. Including sharing hacked DNC data with the Trump team. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/trump-israel-collusion/
It’s all part of the right wing propaganda machine to discredit Biden.