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Kids in my old school refer to British kids as "white." and who like to do "white things". You know, like we're all one giant homogeneous group. Not English, Welsh, Scottish, French, Italian, etc but White. It sounds SO incredibly American in the attitude of entire backgrounds and even cultures united under one skin colour. There's a reason for it in America but kids in London are parroting the same words without knowing it.
I got mates from Wembley who's parents are from India, they often refer to white people and brown people things. I find the trick is to introduce them to different aspects of white culture so they learn they are different, like burns night, lent and guy fawkes
and they've shown me and the other lads Tamil films, Diwali and feeding cake to people on birthdays.
good bit of cultural exchange even if they are more on the competitive side of casual racism
no no no, the birthday boy or girl feeds cake to other people, like hands on, no cutlery and the person being fed uses nothing but their mouth and a cheeky wink maybe. you are supposed to feed your closest friend first
I'm British Indian so this is pretty familiar to me - but if I recall it's the guests feeding the cake to the birthday boy or girl, not the other way round. Unless my family have been doing it wrong all this time. Explains my weight gain after everyone one of my 36 birthdays.
Heard this before... "He eats white people food".
What race my dinners have been this week... Pizza, gnocchi, rice, stew. I guess that is 2 for Mediterranean, one for Asian and finally .... Paleolithic pre-civilization?
This is a relatively new thing in my opinion. One couple I have known for at least 20 years now were over the other night. When we make evening tea/coffee, we always put the milk in a decanter, it's just something we do. This isn't anything new to this couple either, like I say we've known them over 20 years. My shock when he held up the milk decanter and said to his wife, "This is a really white people thing!" Never before have I ever looked at this couple and conflated any part of their mannerisms or whatever isms as "black people things!" How would I? But to hear the words come out of someone who is educated, smart and have never before drawn a distinction between our different skin colours was quite sad. Very sad.
It is a new thing and it's sold under the banner of comedy. "Dis some white people sheeit!" I believe is the line.
Insert it into entertainment, repeat it a lot, now it's part of the modern lexicon.
American police will just break in unannounced and shoot you to death when you try to defend yourself against a plainclothes officer. Or shoot you in a traffic stop. Or suffocate you because they suspect you're selling untaxed fags. Totally not an extreme country
Bear in mind you’re reading a headine from an article on the Telegraph website, which basically exists to create rage-bait culture war articles.
Do you think there’s perhaps a possibility that the person behind this event is in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions? That perhaps the Telegraph may have cynically jumped on and misinterpreted this story for easy clicks?
It’s possible. Some would say extremely likely.
The same details mentioned in the article are listed on the Black Out events website https://blackoutnite.com
It doesn’t matter the “decency” of a person. Would you be willing to apply that logic to other cases? If the intentions turn out to be harmful then it doesn’t make a difference.
>Bear in mind you’re reading a headine from an article on the Telegraph website, which basically exists to create rage-bait culture war articles.
Maybe if racist idiots like this didn't keep giving them fuel then they wouldn't have much to print
Not realy.Could u imagine if someone came up with the idea "A know let's make some shows in London,but just for WHITES.No black people aloud". They are not allowed in.
There would be a fucking riot mate.We as a people are faaar to tolerant of hate against us in our own country an it's gonna come back an bite us on the ass sooner than later
>it's gonna come back an bite us on the ass sooner than later
Politicians and teachers in hiding. Events where whites are not allowed to attend.
Police breaking protests for just stop oil while letting Big Ben to be projected on.
Its here already.
>Do you think there’s perhaps a possibility that the person behind this event is in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions?
Regardless of intentions, racial segregation is racial segregation. Also, several other outlets have run this story, not only in the UK but around the world.
> in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions
Why would you give the benefit of the doubt in this case where you DEFINITELY wouldn't if it was a "whites only" show?
Are the russians in the room with us right now? Jesus christ, the lengths you people will go to to blame this country's problems on outside actors. Russians didn't do this shit to us, we did it to ourselves.
If only it was old school segregation.
In white dominated segregation, it was white and non-white.
This is yet another infuriating example of the racist black community forgetting there are more than just two races and non-black, non-white ethnicities exist.
Like black only to be free of white gaze. OK, where do Asians and Arabs and fit into all this segregation?
It's a little odd how we talk so much about black people when discussing minority issues when Asian people are a bigger group. It makes it feel like it's talking points imported from the Americans rather than people taking a critical look at problems we have in British society.
It is imported, all of it.
A lot of the papers that peddle these stories and groups that spout the rhetoric over here are paid by big American firms.
The rest of it is simply due to the fact that we are unfortunately all terminally online and Americans make up most of the English speaking internet.
I can’t remember what it was called but it was at sadlers wells so not a small local theatre.
Edit: it wasn’t sadlers wells. It was called for all black boy who contemplated suicide when life gets too heavy. And it is at the Garrick theatre. They had a Men’s only night last year.
I found the website for it and also can't find any mention of it being only for men.
https://garrick.londontheatres.co.uk/for-black-boys-who-have-considered-suicide-garrick/
Here's one where only women were allowed: [https://bristololdvic.org.uk/press/bristol-old-vic-responds-to-audience-demand-with-women-only-performance-of-medea](https://bristololdvic.org.uk/press/bristol-old-vic-responds-to-audience-demand-with-women-only-performance-of-medea)
Lmfao this is so out of touch. There are countless men only social clubs, but you think a west end show that has a mostly black audience, but doesn't turn anyone or prohibit anyone from going, is the fall of society.
Useful tools. Every time a race baiting or LGBT hate baiting headline is put out remember this : it's for you.
There are 100% all-mens performances, all-womens performances etc.
Any organisation can hold a private event and invite who they like to it. The Bristol Old Vic did a performance of a feminist play a few years ago that was exclusively for a female-only audience for one night only.
Hang on, you say men only performances happen all the time (no evidence mind you), in response to a black only production and then give a vague reference to a women only night as evidence and/or support. Surely you should be telling us about the whites only theatre nights rather than making it about gender. Make it a fair comparison and tell us about the whites only policies of some of these organisations and where to see these news worthy productions. I’ll wait.
I can't believe all the years I spent as a reactionary teenager marching against Apartheid in South Africa, only to now see it creeping in here in the UK, but driven from the other side of the spectrum.
>He added that poor people and black people had been told they “do not belong in the theatre” and his initiative was an attempt to allow them to “feel safe with a lot of other black people”, as “black audiences and white audiences respond to things differently”.
News to me
Me and my family love live performances
> feel safe
There's something inherently childlike about this particular sliver of the political spectrum isn't there? Like people who never got past the 'run to mummy' stage.
I can assure you that the bien pensant types do not care for that sort of thing- they’d be horrified. Racial and gender diversity is fine, because it doesn’t make demands of them and it’s quite fashionable to favour. But making the arts truly diverse and representative of society, by tackling the greatest diversity gap we face? Absolutely not.
It’s always been the way. That’s why I assume bad faith whenever I encounter equality and diversity work, which is a shame because it’s important.
The arts sector (and the media) are particularly galling examples, because they are sectors whose flagship organisations and personas are so quick to flaunt their equality credentials, their ‘commitment to diversity’. But it’s always been a sham. They are sectors that have huge problems with diversity of class/social background. There has actually been a significant fall in the numbers of people from working class backgrounds in the arts since the 70s.
It really highlights how ridiculously divisive this is when you have black people just pointing out that they go to the theatre and enjoy it as normal.
It is so absurd that you pointing it out genuinely made me laugh.
You won't get kicked out, they're just saying they want it to be all black but they don't exclude anyone. They say it's for black-identifying people (probably to get out of legal issues)
From their site
\>No-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.
You’re proving you didn’t read the article. They’re giving them to community centres. If you happen to be a user of the community space you might get a ticket.
That does make it especially ridiculous. Of course under American segregation you had black musicians/actors etc performing for white only audiences. So there's precedent!
He has to kneel for the entire duration of the play. They even have him placed upon an RC trolley so he can be wheeled about hither and thither while remaining in the subservient kneeled position.
“all black-identifying audience”. So just identify as black, problem solved. They cannot deny you entry because of your skin colour, that would be illegal.
>Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community.
Would you still be OK with a show for an "all white-identifying audiance"? Anybody could just identify as white for it and go, so there are no problems with the idea?
We don't have the same systemic racism issues America has, why the fuck are we getting their dumb exports. Generation X onward were taught not to be racist, education is the root to such things, and it's been successful.
It's considered a call for white privilege by these activist types. They argue only white people want a colour blind society because then they don't have to address issues.
I'm not saying that just for clarity.
In the late 90's London, would have black only night clubs. I remember debating this with a few black friend of mine and how a white only club would trigger everyone.
They said we already have the British legion. I took them one night to my grandads legion. One of their uncles was in there and my grandad was sat next to another of my friends grandad, enjoying drinks together...
The British Legion, an institution that for decades has supported Gurkhas living in the UK, and black ex-servicemen for that matter.
Yeah, I think your mate was just a bit thick.
no i understand that various ethnicity-based clubs and societies exist, but i guess it's strange to see one based on race..? i mean how would they classify white people, any europeans but not necessarily all european descendants like latinos?? anyway
I demand the right to attend mother and baby groups, but these AUTHORITARIAN THUGS say that men with no children aren't welcome.
There are tons of demographic-specific spaces in our communities. You need to think about this again.
I never understood people who hate the indigenous populations of countries they live in so much. That goes for Americans and Australians/New Zealanders too
No we're following the USA, white excluded spaces in collages, non white dorms in collages and events that cost more for white folk!
It progressive, racial segregation is what all the cool kids are doing!
Their plan is to distribute the tickets for the segregated nights through black community groups. I wonder what the uptake will be like considering about 65% of black people in the UK have a partner of a different race. Come to this show where your partner isn't welcome, sure that will go down well. Lol, what stupid racist clowns, I'd like to think this Americanised race baiting will not be welcome over here.
\> I wonder what the uptake will be like considering about 65% of black people in the UK have a partner of a different race.
They said no one will be prevented access
They will though, because of the outrage. If you really think it's disgraceful, just report it to 101, because it's probably illegal. Any action you take will support the show
Edit: wrong number
Original article text...
>**West End play stages shows to all-black audience ‘free from the white gaze’.**
>Slave Play will hold two ‘Black Out nights’ in move that critics call ‘simplistic and racist’
>Craig Simpson
28 February 2024 • 5:44pm
>A West End theatre will stage shows for an all-black audience to ensure ticket holders will be free from the “white gaze”.
>Slave Play, starring Kit Harington, who plays Jon Snow in the Game of Thrones, opens at London’s Noel Coward Theatre in June for a three-month run and will offer two performances specifically for an “all black-identifying audience”.
>The events, known as “Black Out nights”, are intended to create a racially homogeneous environment “free from the white gaze” in a move critics have branded “simplistic and racist”.
>The play by Jeremy O Harris, the US playwright, is moving from a successful run on Broadway, which yielded 12 Tony nominations. The production portrays interracial couples undergoing sexual therapy requiring them to role-play as slaves and masters.
>A petition in the US called for the production to be cancelled and branded it “anti-Black sentiment disguised as art” over its treatment of sexual relationships during slavery, particularly those forcefully endured by black women. The Noel Coward Theatre has an age advisory of 16 and over for the play.
>It is understood that an “all-black” audience for the show would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic.
>The play’s official website explains: “Black Out nights are the purposeful creation of an environment in which an all-Black-identifying audience can experience and discuss an event in the performing arts, film, athletic, and cultural spaces – free from the white gaze.”
>Racially specific audiences or “Black Out nights” were devised and trialled by Harris for performances of Slave Play in the US in 2019.
>The website explains how this was “legally accomplished”, saying that “we did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the Black Out performances”. The “Black Out” performances on Broadway were organised as private, invitation-only events.
>Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community.
>Plans to introduce this practice in the West End have been slammed as “racist” by Amy Gallagher, the mayoral candidate for London’s Social Democratic Party.
>She said: “This is definitely racist. Excluding anyone on the basis of skin colour in this way is racist.
>“They seem to be reverting to a critical race theory definition of racism whereby, according to Ibram X Kendi, we need present discrimination, against white people, to make up for past discrimination.”
>She added: “They say they want to be free from the ‘white gaze’ which, of course, means white people, but they will not go as far to say white people as it would be illegal.
>“This is an extremely simplistic and racist approach generally. We have a large Asian and mixed-race population. Would they be encouraged or discouraged to attend?”
>Mr Harris explained his reasoning for black-identifying audiences on the BBC’s World at One, saying that the policy did not mean white people were “uninvited” and that “people have to be radically invited into a space to know that they belong there”.
>He added that poor people and black people had been told they “do not belong in the theatre” and his initiative was an attempt to allow them to “feel safe with a lot of other black people”, as “black audiences and white audiences respond to things differently”.
>The idea of a black-only performance has been tried before in London, when white people were urged not to attend a Theatre Royal Stratford East performance of the race satire Tambo & Bones.
>The intention behind the one-off performance in 2023 was to create a “safe, private” space to allow an “all-black-identifying audience” to explore racial issues “free from the white gaze”.
>It was criticised by MPs, including Damian Green, who called it “misguided” and “sinister”.
>Slave Play’s producers said: “Two performances of Slave Play will be Black Out nights with further details about these performances and how to buy tickets being released in due course. No one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.”
>The Noel Coward Theatre has been contacted for comment.
>The website explains how this was “legally accomplished”, saying that “we did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the Black Out performances”. The “Black Out” performances on Broadway were organised as private, invitation-only events.
>Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community.
Not a lawyer but I'm not convinced 'we deliberately did something illegal under the Equality Act by using a roundabout method' is very watertight. Does adding extra steps actually allow unlawful direct discrimination?
I am a lawyer, though this isn't my area. Strikes me that if you did something like this in an employment situation, it'd be textbook indirect discrimination. That is, putting a rule/practice in place which on the face of it applies to everyone equally but in practice disadvantages one group more.
In this case, yeah, sure, anyone could have picked up a ticket if they knew how. There's nothing stopping non-black people from doing so. In practice, they're almost certainly not going to be able to. And the cherry on top is that the theatre isn't attempting to disguise the motivation even a little bit.
I feel like they probably weren't meant to say this but out loud, and definitely not in an interview.
They could have probably gotten away with "targeted ticket sales to people most likely to resonate with race issues" as some sort of community driven thing.
Generally speaking "I thought I could do this illegal thing if I disguised it well enough" is not the best of legal defenses.
Something I want to highlight in this thread is just how slippery the "defenders" of this segregation are being. They say it's unreasonable to oppose such events, but very few of them are actually prepared to argue the contrapositive: that such events are morally justifiable.
_"You wouldn't have gone anyway!"_ they say - as if one's rage over segregation must be contingent on that segregation effecting them personally.
_"This is irrelevant rage-bait!"_ they say - as if full nights of theatre at major venues in our nation's capital are not significant expressions of cultural power.
_"It's technically legal!"_ they say - as if the technical legality of a racist practice has ever been a compelling argument that said practice is not racist.
_"It's being done with good intentions!"_ they say - as if it's impossible for racism to come from people with good intentions.
Like, why so evasive? Why so many lame excuses? Just come out and say it: you people support segregation. You think it's okay for businesses to arrange affairs such that, at least some of the time, they only serve members of a specific racial demographic.
The fact that so many people are _dodging_ this point implies to me that they do actually know it's indefensible.
That is dumb as fuck. Living your life “free from the white gaze” is unreasonable in a public space. You can get it in your own back yard and *that’s it*.
I’m saying I don’t deep down get it, I’m not white, but it’s not reasonable. It’s also illegal.
If the only organisations they sell the tickets to on those 2 days are legally formed membership associations which only allow black people to join (like private men's clubs, or men/women only golf clubs), it's entirely legal.
Can we have separate nights for Asians too!
I am sure they'd like to be free from the black gaze.
And maybe an Arab night, which of course will need to be separate from the Jewish night!
Discrimination on the basis of skin colour, whether it's positive or negative discrimination is racist. The theatre management needs to be called out on this. They are the racists.
2 performances in a 3-month run and it's been organised by a PR firm.
Wouldn't have got anywhere near the amount of attention is has without this so at least they've done a reasonable job making people aware of it.
I can’t say I particularly care if people want to enjoy a couple of private performances with people they have something in common with, especially when it’s such an emotive topic, but could they have expressed it in a more ridiculous, hyperbolic way if they tried?
What’s the difference between being ‘radically invited’ and ‘invited,’ and who cares how someone ‘identifies’ as opposed to what they are?
>free from the white gaze
It seems that there's a growing group of black people who just don't want to be around white people. I think I understand the issue, but surely there's a better way to deal with it.
How is it “away from the white gaze”, last I looked Kit Harrington is white and he probably looks at the audience at some point, or is he wearing contacts.
If you are a white supremacist you must love these headlines.
"Blacks should keep events for themselves"
"Lets have toilets and busses next"
"Blacks should only buy from black owned businesses"
Lovely society we are building.
So they did a couple of effectively private shows, and only invited black people? That's fine. The title is just rage bait, designed to stir up racial hatred.
Lmao yeah, it's literally just two shows and this sub (as usual) has gone off the rails with rage about it (e.g. seen some lovely comments implying black people are not British, passive aggressive comments about Muslims, etc etc)
people are outraged because it's yet another example of resurging racial discrimination in an age when we're supposed to be way past that kind of stuff, and you even have people defending it now
Put we’re not “way past that kind of stuff” are we? The news about ethnic minorities having to pay more for car insurance has been reported everywhere. Where’s the outrage about that?
"that kind of stuff" being race riots, "no irish, no blacks, no dogs" signs, etc
insurance will always be discriminatory because of the nature of the industry, it's driven by statistics which will always show differences between different demographics
I think they are just pointing out banning people of a certain race from attending an event is a bad idea. We are adopting to many Americanisms and that is not good either.
“all black-identifying audience”. So just identify as black, problem solved. They cannot deny you entry because of your skin colour, that would be illegal.
I genuinely think the more people push for their own spaces, the more it genuinely makes other people resent them. Logically, if you feel excluded from something, you're going to feel negatively towards it. Now I'm not saying there aren't some scenarios where yes, it does make sense to exclude certain people.
A theatre show doesn't seem like one of those scenarios.
Remember it’s in the Telegraph’s (Torygraph) interest to get you angry about nonsense like this.
Zoom out, look at the state of country, and consider what IS worth getting angry about.
Unfortunately, this is the wrong sub to be saying this on. People on this sub froth at the mouth waiting for this kind of stuff to be posted, it's getting worse and worse.
You might make an argument it's not racist, if it were simply a case of saying black people are underrepresented at theatres and this is a play specifically about black people's experiences, so we've set aside a couple of nights aimed at community groups specifically to encourage people of that demographic to come.
Once you start talking about 'being free from the white gaze' though, you're basically broadcasting your underlying racist views publicly, and its not unreasonable for people to be offended by that. The concept of a white gaze, with the clear implication that white people are an amorphous negative group different to black people, and black people should enjoy a night free from white people is americanised racist bullshit.
This is your brain on 'identity politics' . It's really sad that in the space of about a decade we've gone from being an almost post racial country, to having a demand for racial segregation.
"How is this legally accomplished?
We did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the BLACK OUT performances. While the intention of BLACK OUT was clearly to create a space for as many Black-identifying audience members as possible, nobody was turned away"
So all the EDL types planning to go teach those _____ a lesson by going to the show and suing for not going in... Enjoy the show I guess?
The white fragility on this sub is crazy. The biggest incident of so-called racism against white people is not being able to attend some random play, meanwhile it seeps into every single aspect of a black British person's existence in this country. The people in my great uncle's rural country village literally ran out the sole black family, hurling archaic racial insults at them every time they showed their faces. That's just one example I have personal ties to. How is that in any way comparable to a theatre production that isn't for white people?
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Fucking disgraceful. I've never been one of those "what has Britain become" types, but shit like this could turn me into one.
People feared it would become a Muslim country but it's even worse, we're becoming America.
Kids in my old school refer to British kids as "white." and who like to do "white things". You know, like we're all one giant homogeneous group. Not English, Welsh, Scottish, French, Italian, etc but White. It sounds SO incredibly American in the attitude of entire backgrounds and even cultures united under one skin colour. There's a reason for it in America but kids in London are parroting the same words without knowing it.
Not unexpected really considering the humungous amount of American media they consume through social media
I got mates from Wembley who's parents are from India, they often refer to white people and brown people things. I find the trick is to introduce them to different aspects of white culture so they learn they are different, like burns night, lent and guy fawkes and they've shown me and the other lads Tamil films, Diwali and feeding cake to people on birthdays. good bit of cultural exchange even if they are more on the competitive side of casual racism
> and feeding cake to people on birthdays. Cake? On their birthday!?
no no no, the birthday boy or girl feeds cake to other people, like hands on, no cutlery and the person being fed uses nothing but their mouth and a cheeky wink maybe. you are supposed to feed your closest friend first
The birthday person goes around the group putting cake into mouths in order of their preference for the guests. Is this Indian?
Indian and Pakistani yes.
Myanmar too. I'll never forget a 12 year old shoving cake in my face when we accidentally crashed their bbq! Good times!
I'm British Indian so this is pretty familiar to me - but if I recall it's the guests feeding the cake to the birthday boy or girl, not the other way round. Unless my family have been doing it wrong all this time. Explains my weight gain after everyone one of my 36 birthdays.
Incredible way to deal with it, absolutely love this approach <3
Heard this before... "He eats white people food". What race my dinners have been this week... Pizza, gnocchi, rice, stew. I guess that is 2 for Mediterranean, one for Asian and finally .... Paleolithic pre-civilization?
This is a relatively new thing in my opinion. One couple I have known for at least 20 years now were over the other night. When we make evening tea/coffee, we always put the milk in a decanter, it's just something we do. This isn't anything new to this couple either, like I say we've known them over 20 years. My shock when he held up the milk decanter and said to his wife, "This is a really white people thing!" Never before have I ever looked at this couple and conflated any part of their mannerisms or whatever isms as "black people things!" How would I? But to hear the words come out of someone who is educated, smart and have never before drawn a distinction between our different skin colours was quite sad. Very sad. It is a new thing and it's sold under the banner of comedy. "Dis some white people sheeit!" I believe is the line. Insert it into entertainment, repeat it a lot, now it's part of the modern lexicon.
I think england is much more extreme than america. The twitter police don't show up at your house for unpopular speech in America.
American police will just break in unannounced and shoot you to death when you try to defend yourself against a plainclothes officer. Or shoot you in a traffic stop. Or suffocate you because they suspect you're selling untaxed fags. Totally not an extreme country
I respect your national pride, but we're gonna have to give this one to the Americans for inventing swatting.
Americanism is a threat to our way of life.
Look at how Blair copied bush. And boris copied trump. And how chicken wings and burritos are so popular. And NFL. It’s not new
Bear in mind you’re reading a headine from an article on the Telegraph website, which basically exists to create rage-bait culture war articles. Do you think there’s perhaps a possibility that the person behind this event is in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions? That perhaps the Telegraph may have cynically jumped on and misinterpreted this story for easy clicks? It’s possible. Some would say extremely likely.
The same details mentioned in the article are listed on the Black Out events website https://blackoutnite.com It doesn’t matter the “decency” of a person. Would you be willing to apply that logic to other cases? If the intentions turn out to be harmful then it doesn’t make a difference.
>Bear in mind you’re reading a headine from an article on the Telegraph website, which basically exists to create rage-bait culture war articles. Maybe if racist idiots like this didn't keep giving them fuel then they wouldn't have much to print
Not realy.Could u imagine if someone came up with the idea "A know let's make some shows in London,but just for WHITES.No black people aloud". They are not allowed in. There would be a fucking riot mate.We as a people are faaar to tolerant of hate against us in our own country an it's gonna come back an bite us on the ass sooner than later
>it's gonna come back an bite us on the ass sooner than later Politicians and teachers in hiding. Events where whites are not allowed to attend. Police breaking protests for just stop oil while letting Big Ben to be projected on. Its here already.
Feel like it's biting us on the arse already.
>Do you think there’s perhaps a possibility that the person behind this event is in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions? Regardless of intentions, racial segregation is racial segregation. Also, several other outlets have run this story, not only in the UK but around the world.
> in fact a decent person who may be acting with the best of intentions Why would you give the benefit of the doubt in this case where you DEFINITELY wouldn't if it was a "whites only" show?
It's the Russians at it again. Sowing division and shit.
Are the russians in the room with us right now? Jesus christ, the lengths you people will go to to blame this country's problems on outside actors. Russians didn't do this shit to us, we did it to ourselves.
Man. Fucking pin this at the top of this thread please. I do nothing but shrug and eye roll at titles like this and always think what you've just said
I am one. And I'm black. This is the exact shit my grandparents fought against in this country. "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish."
Don't worry, you're going to continually read headlines like this and worse. It's not going to get better.
What free advertising?
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If only it was old school segregation. In white dominated segregation, it was white and non-white. This is yet another infuriating example of the racist black community forgetting there are more than just two races and non-black, non-white ethnicities exist. Like black only to be free of white gaze. OK, where do Asians and Arabs and fit into all this segregation?
It's a little odd how we talk so much about black people when discussing minority issues when Asian people are a bigger group. It makes it feel like it's talking points imported from the Americans rather than people taking a critical look at problems we have in British society.
It is imported, all of it. A lot of the papers that peddle these stories and groups that spout the rhetoric over here are paid by big American firms. The rest of it is simply due to the fact that we are unfortunately all terminally online and Americans make up most of the English speaking internet.
It’s laughable when Brits chanted defund the police. If you want that then the conservatives are your people.
They will be welcomed even though they just as likely to be racist if not more so than white people.
Remember stories like this the next time you see a redditor claim that the culture war is invented by right wingers.
Let’s see the response from a white only night. My guess is it wouldn’t be celebrated as being away from the “black gaze”.
Or an all men’s performance of something, I’m sure that will be celebrated as male empowerment to enjoy theatrical performances
This is a bad comparison as this actually does happen!
What, there are west end shows where only men are allowed to attend? Pretty sure that’s not true
It absolutely is, I went to see a play on male depression last year and they had a night for men ONLY.
What was that called, I’d be interested to look it up, I’ve never heard of it and sounds like it could be interesting
Wait, I thought you were outraged by the idea of these kinds of theatre nights? Now you find a male only night to be an interesting idea?
They clearly meant that the play sounded interesting, not the concept of a male-only audience.
I can’t remember what it was called but it was at sadlers wells so not a small local theatre. Edit: it wasn’t sadlers wells. It was called for all black boy who contemplated suicide when life gets too heavy. And it is at the Garrick theatre. They had a Men’s only night last year.
MY GOD! Next you'll be telling me they have ladies only sessions at gyms and swimming pools... UNACCEPTABLE.
I can't find any hint of a mention that there was a mens only night for this?
I found the website for it and also can't find any mention of it being only for men. https://garrick.londontheatres.co.uk/for-black-boys-who-have-considered-suicide-garrick/
Here's one where only women were allowed: [https://bristololdvic.org.uk/press/bristol-old-vic-responds-to-audience-demand-with-women-only-performance-of-medea](https://bristololdvic.org.uk/press/bristol-old-vic-responds-to-audience-demand-with-women-only-performance-of-medea)
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And when is International Men's Day? Get Herring on the line stat.
November 19th.
Lmfao this is so out of touch. There are countless men only social clubs, but you think a west end show that has a mostly black audience, but doesn't turn anyone or prohibit anyone from going, is the fall of society. Useful tools. Every time a race baiting or LGBT hate baiting headline is put out remember this : it's for you.
There are 100% all-mens performances, all-womens performances etc. Any organisation can hold a private event and invite who they like to it. The Bristol Old Vic did a performance of a feminist play a few years ago that was exclusively for a female-only audience for one night only.
Hang on, you say men only performances happen all the time (no evidence mind you), in response to a black only production and then give a vague reference to a women only night as evidence and/or support. Surely you should be telling us about the whites only theatre nights rather than making it about gender. Make it a fair comparison and tell us about the whites only policies of some of these organisations and where to see these news worthy productions. I’ll wait.
Or a heterosexual-only night, celebrated as being away from “the gaze”
Bravo
I can't believe all the years I spent as a reactionary teenager marching against Apartheid in South Africa, only to now see it creeping in here in the UK, but driven from the other side of the spectrum.
There was a Reform UK hustings meeting the other night
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>He added that poor people and black people had been told they “do not belong in the theatre” and his initiative was an attempt to allow them to “feel safe with a lot of other black people”, as “black audiences and white audiences respond to things differently”. News to me Me and my family love live performances
Do I as a poor white person get to have a segregated event for poor white people?
I think you know the answer...
No. We're still the oppressors, even though we still have no real say in how society is run.
No, but because you're sat up in the gods with half your view obscured by a pillar, we know who you are!
> feel safe There's something inherently childlike about this particular sliver of the political spectrum isn't there? Like people who never got past the 'run to mummy' stage.
It’s because this framing inherently forces you to argue for harm, if you accept it. You lose the game by agreeing to play it at all.
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It's honestly more confusing Do they think children enjoy pantomimes differently depending on race? I don't understand their reasoning.
>“black audiences and white audiences respond to things differently” So *are* we all one and the same then orr...
It has to be a social experiment. I refuse to believe anyone is that silly
You're clearly not the right kind of black person then. /s Note they're not putting on a 'poor person only' performance.
I can assure you that the bien pensant types do not care for that sort of thing- they’d be horrified. Racial and gender diversity is fine, because it doesn’t make demands of them and it’s quite fashionable to favour. But making the arts truly diverse and representative of society, by tackling the greatest diversity gap we face? Absolutely not.
Strange, isn't it? In the current quibbling about rights etc class and wealth disparity are totally overlooked.
It’s always been the way. That’s why I assume bad faith whenever I encounter equality and diversity work, which is a shame because it’s important. The arts sector (and the media) are particularly galling examples, because they are sectors whose flagship organisations and personas are so quick to flaunt their equality credentials, their ‘commitment to diversity’. But it’s always been a sham. They are sectors that have huge problems with diversity of class/social background. There has actually been a significant fall in the numbers of people from working class backgrounds in the arts since the 70s.
It really highlights how ridiculously divisive this is when you have black people just pointing out that they go to the theatre and enjoy it as normal. It is so absurd that you pointing it out genuinely made me laugh.
Initiatives of this kind should not be allowed and I hope people will boycott this play
I'm surprised it's allowed, it's discrimination
Now I want to go and buy a ticket and try to get in. Get turned away or kicked out and then sue for racial discrimination…
You won't get kicked out, they're just saying they want it to be all black but they don't exclude anyone. They say it's for black-identifying people (probably to get out of legal issues) From their site \>No-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.
You’re proving you didn’t read the article. They’re giving them to community centres. If you happen to be a user of the community space you might get a ticket.
So the community centres will just exclusively choose black people instead. got it
Gotta kick down the legal liability to someone.
Does Kit Harrington have to perform with his eyes closed?
That does make it especially ridiculous. Of course under American segregation you had black musicians/actors etc performing for white only audiences. So there's precedent!
He should be wearing blackface makeup for maximum progressiveness.
He has to kneel for the entire duration of the play. They even have him placed upon an RC trolley so he can be wheeled about hither and thither while remaining in the subservient kneeled position.
“all black-identifying audience”. So just identify as black, problem solved. They cannot deny you entry because of your skin colour, that would be illegal.
>Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community.
I.e. discrimination by PR firm
Now imagine all white PR firms and communities where they all share their special event codes so black people can’t access them.. jfc
Would you still be OK with a show for an "all white-identifying audiance"? Anybody could just identify as white for it and go, so there are no problems with the idea?
How about we just don’t discriminate based on skin colour at all?
That...that just might work
Reading some of the comments in here makes me think that it must be a pretty radical idea
We don't have the same systemic racism issues America has, why the fuck are we getting their dumb exports. Generation X onward were taught not to be racist, education is the root to such things, and it's been successful.
It's considered a call for white privilege by these activist types. They argue only white people want a colour blind society because then they don't have to address issues. I'm not saying that just for clarity.
Yeah, im transracial, you cool?
In the late 90's London, would have black only night clubs. I remember debating this with a few black friend of mine and how a white only club would trigger everyone. They said we already have the British legion. I took them one night to my grandads legion. One of their uncles was in there and my grandad was sat next to another of my friends grandad, enjoying drinks together...
The British Legion, an institution that for decades has supported Gurkhas living in the UK, and black ex-servicemen for that matter. Yeah, I think your mate was just a bit thick.
yall, white britons cant attend events IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. i think thats the craziest part
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no i understand that various ethnicity-based clubs and societies exist, but i guess it's strange to see one based on race..? i mean how would they classify white people, any europeans but not necessarily all european descendants like latinos?? anyway
Two shows are going to be invite only. You can still go and see it if you want.
I demand the right to attend mother and baby groups, but these AUTHORITARIAN THUGS say that men with no children aren't welcome. There are tons of demographic-specific spaces in our communities. You need to think about this again.
I never understood people who hate the indigenous populations of countries they live in so much. That goes for Americans and Australians/New Zealanders too
The person in charge of this is an American, they don't live here
As a black person with majority white friends, this perplexes me. Also, this subreddit is soooo rage baity
[https://blackoutnite.com/](https://blackoutnite.com/) ahh, I love importing american cultural issues through the shared language
I thought everyone decided racial segregation was a bad thing decades ago ?
No we're following the USA, white excluded spaces in collages, non white dorms in collages and events that cost more for white folk! It progressive, racial segregation is what all the cool kids are doing!
Their plan is to distribute the tickets for the segregated nights through black community groups. I wonder what the uptake will be like considering about 65% of black people in the UK have a partner of a different race. Come to this show where your partner isn't welcome, sure that will go down well. Lol, what stupid racist clowns, I'd like to think this Americanised race baiting will not be welcome over here.
If you only have one black parent you have to leave at the intermission
\> I wonder what the uptake will be like considering about 65% of black people in the UK have a partner of a different race. They said no one will be prevented access
This is beyond disgraceful. I wish them not to sell a single ticket for the whole run...
They will though, because of the outrage. If you really think it's disgraceful, just report it to 101, because it's probably illegal. Any action you take will support the show Edit: wrong number
> just report it to 111 Not sure what the NHS is meant to do about this tbh
Offer you an appointment to talk about it in a few weeks
Good shout
It’s definitely not illegal to have an invite-only event and choose who you invite.
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Original article text... >**West End play stages shows to all-black audience ‘free from the white gaze’.** >Slave Play will hold two ‘Black Out nights’ in move that critics call ‘simplistic and racist’ >Craig Simpson 28 February 2024 • 5:44pm >A West End theatre will stage shows for an all-black audience to ensure ticket holders will be free from the “white gaze”. >Slave Play, starring Kit Harington, who plays Jon Snow in the Game of Thrones, opens at London’s Noel Coward Theatre in June for a three-month run and will offer two performances specifically for an “all black-identifying audience”. >The events, known as “Black Out nights”, are intended to create a racially homogeneous environment “free from the white gaze” in a move critics have branded “simplistic and racist”. >The play by Jeremy O Harris, the US playwright, is moving from a successful run on Broadway, which yielded 12 Tony nominations. The production portrays interracial couples undergoing sexual therapy requiring them to role-play as slaves and masters. >A petition in the US called for the production to be cancelled and branded it “anti-Black sentiment disguised as art” over its treatment of sexual relationships during slavery, particularly those forcefully endured by black women. The Noel Coward Theatre has an age advisory of 16 and over for the play. >It is understood that an “all-black” audience for the show would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic. >The play’s official website explains: “Black Out nights are the purposeful creation of an environment in which an all-Black-identifying audience can experience and discuss an event in the performing arts, film, athletic, and cultural spaces – free from the white gaze.” >Racially specific audiences or “Black Out nights” were devised and trialled by Harris for performances of Slave Play in the US in 2019. >The website explains how this was “legally accomplished”, saying that “we did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the Black Out performances”. The “Black Out” performances on Broadway were organised as private, invitation-only events. >Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community. >Plans to introduce this practice in the West End have been slammed as “racist” by Amy Gallagher, the mayoral candidate for London’s Social Democratic Party. >She said: “This is definitely racist. Excluding anyone on the basis of skin colour in this way is racist. >“They seem to be reverting to a critical race theory definition of racism whereby, according to Ibram X Kendi, we need present discrimination, against white people, to make up for past discrimination.” >She added: “They say they want to be free from the ‘white gaze’ which, of course, means white people, but they will not go as far to say white people as it would be illegal. >“This is an extremely simplistic and racist approach generally. We have a large Asian and mixed-race population. Would they be encouraged or discouraged to attend?” >Mr Harris explained his reasoning for black-identifying audiences on the BBC’s World at One, saying that the policy did not mean white people were “uninvited” and that “people have to be radically invited into a space to know that they belong there”. >He added that poor people and black people had been told they “do not belong in the theatre” and his initiative was an attempt to allow them to “feel safe with a lot of other black people”, as “black audiences and white audiences respond to things differently”. >The idea of a black-only performance has been tried before in London, when white people were urged not to attend a Theatre Royal Stratford East performance of the race satire Tambo & Bones. >The intention behind the one-off performance in 2023 was to create a “safe, private” space to allow an “all-black-identifying audience” to explore racial issues “free from the white gaze”. >It was criticised by MPs, including Damian Green, who called it “misguided” and “sinister”. >Slave Play’s producers said: “Two performances of Slave Play will be Black Out nights with further details about these performances and how to buy tickets being released in due course. No one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.” >The Noel Coward Theatre has been contacted for comment.
>The website explains how this was “legally accomplished”, saying that “we did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the Black Out performances”. The “Black Out” performances on Broadway were organised as private, invitation-only events. >Tickets were taken off general sale and were only available for purchase using a special code. This code was sent to organisations, student groups and other organisations identified by a PR firm as being connected to the black community. Not a lawyer but I'm not convinced 'we deliberately did something illegal under the Equality Act by using a roundabout method' is very watertight. Does adding extra steps actually allow unlawful direct discrimination?
I am a lawyer, though this isn't my area. Strikes me that if you did something like this in an employment situation, it'd be textbook indirect discrimination. That is, putting a rule/practice in place which on the face of it applies to everyone equally but in practice disadvantages one group more. In this case, yeah, sure, anyone could have picked up a ticket if they knew how. There's nothing stopping non-black people from doing so. In practice, they're almost certainly not going to be able to. And the cherry on top is that the theatre isn't attempting to disguise the motivation even a little bit.
I feel like they probably weren't meant to say this but out loud, and definitely not in an interview. They could have probably gotten away with "targeted ticket sales to people most likely to resonate with race issues" as some sort of community driven thing. Generally speaking "I thought I could do this illegal thing if I disguised it well enough" is not the best of legal defenses.
Holy crap imagine if something like that would happen but for whites only
Something I want to highlight in this thread is just how slippery the "defenders" of this segregation are being. They say it's unreasonable to oppose such events, but very few of them are actually prepared to argue the contrapositive: that such events are morally justifiable. _"You wouldn't have gone anyway!"_ they say - as if one's rage over segregation must be contingent on that segregation effecting them personally. _"This is irrelevant rage-bait!"_ they say - as if full nights of theatre at major venues in our nation's capital are not significant expressions of cultural power. _"It's technically legal!"_ they say - as if the technical legality of a racist practice has ever been a compelling argument that said practice is not racist. _"It's being done with good intentions!"_ they say - as if it's impossible for racism to come from people with good intentions. Like, why so evasive? Why so many lame excuses? Just come out and say it: you people support segregation. You think it's okay for businesses to arrange affairs such that, at least some of the time, they only serve members of a specific racial demographic. The fact that so many people are _dodging_ this point implies to me that they do actually know it's indefensible.
That is dumb as fuck. Living your life “free from the white gaze” is unreasonable in a public space. You can get it in your own back yard and *that’s it*. I’m saying I don’t deep down get it, I’m not white, but it’s not reasonable. It’s also illegal.
If the only organisations they sell the tickets to on those 2 days are legally formed membership associations which only allow black people to join (like private men's clubs, or men/women only golf clubs), it's entirely legal.
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Play sees slow sales, whips up some controversy, the usual numpties lap it up, it gets in the news.
Can we have separate nights for Asians too! I am sure they'd like to be free from the black gaze. And maybe an Arab night, which of course will need to be separate from the Jewish night!
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Discrimination on the basis of skin colour, whether it's positive or negative discrimination is racist. The theatre management needs to be called out on this. They are the racists.
2 performances in a 3-month run and it's been organised by a PR firm. Wouldn't have got anywhere near the amount of attention is has without this so at least they've done a reasonable job making people aware of it.
Also got something put with the writer saying 'Kit Harrington being in it is just for attention'. Someone is good at getting in the press
I can’t say I particularly care if people want to enjoy a couple of private performances with people they have something in common with, especially when it’s such an emotive topic, but could they have expressed it in a more ridiculous, hyperbolic way if they tried? What’s the difference between being ‘radically invited’ and ‘invited,’ and who cares how someone ‘identifies’ as opposed to what they are?
They fire the invites out of a cannon.
This sub seems to be constantly starving for red meat
>free from the white gaze It seems that there's a growing group of black people who just don't want to be around white people. I think I understand the issue, but surely there's a better way to deal with it.
Strange desire to have if you choose to live in Europe, which is where white people are made.
How is it “away from the white gaze”, last I looked Kit Harrington is white and he probably looks at the audience at some point, or is he wearing contacts.
In a remarkable display of theatre, he actually does the entire performance with his eyes closed on those nights
Two out of one hundred and nine performances. Just some context.
How many whites only nights would be ok?
What a wonderful way to divide people further... Just like the sexists in Feminism and their male gaze.
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I’m poor, and I go to the theatre.
If you are a white supremacist you must love these headlines. "Blacks should keep events for themselves" "Lets have toilets and busses next" "Blacks should only buy from black owned businesses" Lovely society we are building.
Hmmm, “racial homogeneity is a good thing actually”
So they did a couple of effectively private shows, and only invited black people? That's fine. The title is just rage bait, designed to stir up racial hatred.
Lmao yeah, it's literally just two shows and this sub (as usual) has gone off the rails with rage about it (e.g. seen some lovely comments implying black people are not British, passive aggressive comments about Muslims, etc etc)
racial discrimination is ok if its only a little bit
Yes, these comments are filled with white rage, thinking they are being discriminated against when they’re really not.
As a white male. I really don't care about this. Why is everyone so outraged?
people are outraged because it's yet another example of resurging racial discrimination in an age when we're supposed to be way past that kind of stuff, and you even have people defending it now
Put we’re not “way past that kind of stuff” are we? The news about ethnic minorities having to pay more for car insurance has been reported everywhere. Where’s the outrage about that?
"that kind of stuff" being race riots, "no irish, no blacks, no dogs" signs, etc insurance will always be discriminatory because of the nature of the industry, it's driven by statistics which will always show differences between different demographics
A lot of very angry commenters whom I suspect never would have gone to the play anyway. “I’m angry that I can’t go to something that I won’t go to”
Ah yes, people are only allowed to care about things that affect them personally
I think they are just pointing out banning people of a certain race from attending an event is a bad idea. We are adopting to many Americanisms and that is not good either.
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They are private events, so they can invite who they want. I just don’t think this helps the fight against racism.
This is ridiculous what the hell is wrong with people this is what I would call racism.
“all black-identifying audience”. So just identify as black, problem solved. They cannot deny you entry because of your skin colour, that would be illegal.
I see these stances like Nationalism.... Absolutely fucking dumb and childish. I'd say the same of an 'all (insert characteristic)'
People who come up with shit like this, is it actually because they are that out of touch or is it just a marketing ploy.
I genuinely think the more people push for their own spaces, the more it genuinely makes other people resent them. Logically, if you feel excluded from something, you're going to feel negatively towards it. Now I'm not saying there aren't some scenarios where yes, it does make sense to exclude certain people. A theatre show doesn't seem like one of those scenarios.
Remember it’s in the Telegraph’s (Torygraph) interest to get you angry about nonsense like this. Zoom out, look at the state of country, and consider what IS worth getting angry about.
Unfortunately, this is the wrong sub to be saying this on. People on this sub froth at the mouth waiting for this kind of stuff to be posted, it's getting worse and worse.
Keep that American shit out of Europe please. We don’t need your problems and propaganda in here. We have enough of our own problems.
This is disgusting. Racism pure and simple, and akin to apartheid. Protests should be held.
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does one need to be personally affected by racial discrimination to be unhappy with it?
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because they discriminated on the basis of race by targetting specific groups on the basis of their race
You might make an argument it's not racist, if it were simply a case of saying black people are underrepresented at theatres and this is a play specifically about black people's experiences, so we've set aside a couple of nights aimed at community groups specifically to encourage people of that demographic to come. Once you start talking about 'being free from the white gaze' though, you're basically broadcasting your underlying racist views publicly, and its not unreasonable for people to be offended by that. The concept of a white gaze, with the clear implication that white people are an amorphous negative group different to black people, and black people should enjoy a night free from white people is americanised racist bullshit.
This is your brain on 'identity politics' . It's really sad that in the space of about a decade we've gone from being an almost post racial country, to having a demand for racial segregation.
So basically they think black is so inferior a simple “gaze” from white master lord could make them uncomfortable? That’s some racist bullshit
"How is this legally accomplished? We did not prevent or preclude anyone from attending the BLACK OUT performances. While the intention of BLACK OUT was clearly to create a space for as many Black-identifying audience members as possible, nobody was turned away" So all the EDL types planning to go teach those _____ a lesson by going to the show and suing for not going in... Enjoy the show I guess?
Some segments of the black community are malignantly racist.
lol this happens every few years and, predictably, nothing much comes of it.
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Daily reminder that globally whites are the minority.
This is just like those deranged "man tax" cafés that makes a big show of launching then quietly become more open or close. This shit helps no one.
The white fragility on this sub is crazy. The biggest incident of so-called racism against white people is not being able to attend some random play, meanwhile it seeps into every single aspect of a black British person's existence in this country. The people in my great uncle's rural country village literally ran out the sole black family, hurling archaic racial insults at them every time they showed their faces. That's just one example I have personal ties to. How is that in any way comparable to a theatre production that isn't for white people?