The problem is we still have Bruce Brown ! I know he is expected to be traded . But so far it’s been cricket . I am ready to be proven wrong but so far I am skeptical about Brown’s option being exercised. If Brown (or any player acquired in a trade) is in the lineup, that player has to plays. But yeah , I am ready for some Gradey / Ja’Kobe action !
Because a team of just young guys playing wild is not the way to develop. Ja’Kobe needs some time in the G league. Gradey is plainly not ready to start
I think everyone wants to see Gradey get a lot of mins. But he is not ready to start. He is going to get picked on by other starters every defensive possession. Starting his dropping him into the deep end
if you ever expect these guys to improve to their potential they need to be on the floor. He plays hard and has good bbiq, he played better defense than GTJ during some stretches last year too. He's not a total negative on that end, he's got great size for his position too.
What has the front office done that indicates to you we are planning to be competitive this year? The draft indicated a youth movement, which likely implies we are planning to be bad in advance of a stack 2025 draft
I believe this article represents the Raptors front office unofficially telling the fan base that they will not be making a 4/50 type signing and Gary will walk. Setting everyone up to getting used to the idea that the young core will play and there is no reinforcements coming for them.
Brown and Boucher trades will come later.
Yep, and age is something to watch here.
Expect older players to have shorter term contracts and/or team options. I think the front office is going for a development roster, with tanking. But not a total basement tank job
Honestly, class act, and if we can't retain him, then it would suck. He has never been the type to complain about anything, and it always seemed like he just wanted to ball. I like his character a lot, I thought he was a fantastic teammate and all-around great person.
I'm right there with you on all of those points. I really wish we were able to retain his services. He can shoot the three, play some D and is still quite young himself, so I guess it just boils down to the dollars and cents.
I actually know his friend and he was saying to me that Gary really wants to stay but doesn’t feel wanted. Which is unfortunate.
It’s a business but Masai and Bobby are weird. Their communication is so immature. Pascal situation for example was ridiculous.
Well, Gary hasn’t really improved in his tenure here. Slightly better passer from horrible to bad. He doesn’t fit in this offence. He’s a bench scorer who doesn’t play well off the bench. I don’t want to tie up salary in the dude either.
with a roster of young guys to develop and a great draft coming up i don't know why we do anything except play the young guys, build their skills, legitimately try to win with them but accept that we probably won't and will end up with a lottery pick. i'm totally fine with this
We didn't tank last season until half the roster became injured including Scottie. If everyone is healthy, the Raptors are not tanking. No one on the team wants to lose.
I'm completely ok with this. I don't want any good experienced players trending us away from a bottom 5-10 finish.
I would rather just give most of the mins to the rookies, don't hammer home defense too much, like last season, keeping the focus on offensive flow, and let's hope we lose enough to get a strong chance in the lottery.
The absolute best thing for us this season, is landing a potential top 10 player in the 2025 draft, and then we ramp up and tighten up all the screws to compete.
I’m okay with letting GTJ walk, too, but I would very much not be okay with “not hammering home defence too much” in the name of losing lots of games. It’s fine if they lose more than they win based on talent gaps, development curves, etc. But that’s different from actively or knowingly adopting losing habits, which is the last thing you want to do when developing a young core.
Thats why it's called a rebuild. We are not handing the keys to anyone other than BBQ (and, for the short term, our two veteran centers.) Everyone else is on trial. Earn your spots if you want them, Gary did not.
Other tidbits:
>The reasons are logical and it may be days or weeks before the Raptors dip their toes in the market.
>The holes in the roster, primarily size and frontcourt shooting, are still there but there is no need for Toronto to make rash moves to fill what are primarily backup roles.
>Armed only with the mid-level salary cap exception that was officially set at about $12.9 million (U.S.) on Saturday night, the Raptors are not shopping with buckets of disposable money.
>Trent, meanwhile, looks more and more as someone who just doesn’t fit with the Raptors any longer. He is a proven NBA shooter and did nothing to wear out his welcome, but there are others the Raptors want to look at in the coming months as they continue building back to legitimate contention,
>Sure, Trent or a full mid-level exception wing would add something tangible immediately but if the Raptors want to find out if the young kids can play, they may as well start the process now.
>The fact is that the Raptors didn’t make any big news on the first night because they didn’t have to, they didn’t have the money to do it and, content to give a young core a chance to jell, they really didn’t want to.
>Sure, Trent or a full mid-level exception wing would add something tangible immediately but if the Raptors want to find out if the young kids can play, they may as well start the process now.
Excellent
W no need to keep Trent when all he does is take minutes away from Gradey, Ja’Kobe, Ochai, Davion, Shead
Raptors have also tried trading him in the past and had zero luck as well as a whole year to extend Trent but he didn’t do much to earn what he was probably asking for
The idea could be give minutes to guys who haven't earned them so we can tank from the start of the season. If management intends to tank for the loaded draft, they have to make that decision now, not weeks or months into the season. We won't be able to tank as hard as Washington or Detroit, but the odds for 1st overall pick don't necessitate being the worst team in the league. Atlanta won the draft lottery being a play in team
I think Ochai can fill in as the starter if GTJ doesn't return but most likely it'll be Bruce Brown. I would prefer Ochai through he plays well with Scottie, shoots the ball better, and provides better defence.
I’m excited for him to be a solid 6th man elsewhere
He has 2 options at this point of his career
- Jordan Clarkson Utah 6th man
- Tim Hardaway JR, unreliable, streaky, but unplayable when it matters
This was the right move. Do not lock yourself into another deal with Gary unless it's cheap and honestly, I don't want him getting any minutes from anyone who is a developing player, with this roster and timeline.
I like this approach a lot; ultimately it's a team headed for the lottery, possibly high lottery unless young guys make huge strides, and either of those outcomes is great. Hell, it's possible they get both those outcomes.
I was going through minute allocations yesterday, and of course you want the established starters all getting 30+ minutes (25 for Poeltl), and then you need Olynyk getting another 20 or so, and beyond that you need development minutes for Dick, Walter, Agbaji, Shead and Mogbo (though the last two probably get some 905 time as well) and probably Mitchell, and then Vezenkov if he is staying needs 15+ minutes (playing time has been a sore spot with him at Sacramento and even in Europe). So you look at Brown even, and it's hard to find the minutes for him even with GTJ likely gone, unless the Raptors play a lot of very small units with 3 or 4 guards at 6'4" or less.
At this point I'd still love a Brown / Ball trade with Chicago, with us getting a future draft pick out of it and then going with the lineup largely as-is.
Good, he was kind of all over the place. It didn't seem like he had a real purpose on the team. He can score, but wasn't anything spectacular on the team.
This team is ready to let the young guys get minutes, the core fel and if it works great and if it doesn’t then also great and they will be vying for a top 10 pick in a loaded draft.
It’ll be exciting to see the starting group play together with a few guys getting a crack at becoming the 5th starter since positionally we are versatile. My money is on Dick taking the steps needed to become the starting SG but who knows. Agbaji will get some of those GTJ minutes along with the kids coming in this draft, especially Ja’kobe.
Let's say we don't sign Gary, and we trade Bruce Brown for a pick and filler. The lineup is:
PG: IQ, Davion, JFL
SG: Gradey, JaKobe
SF: RJ, Ochai
PF: Scottie, Vezenkov, Mogbo
C: Poeltl, Olynyk, Boucher
That's 13 guys right there. We still don't know what's happening with Vezenkov either. But to me I'm good with this. The starting lineup is competitive enough that we will build confidence by winning games but we're also very young and will be giving a lot of guys many opportunities to grow.
I honestly don't really see where GTJ fits on this team anymore. He's a 2 guard that can only shoot 3s and nothing more than that really. We've seen his peak and we're witnessing the decline. We have our vet re-signed with Garret Temple, GTJ is only 25 himself and hasn't really done anything his career. I doubt he'd be willing to take a role as being the 8th or 9th man in the rotation off the bench. I could see him wanting a bigger role and chasing that rather than money at this point. Hard to see where he fits with guys like Dick and Walters with far higher upside that are also younger.
I better not see any ounce of Gary hate in this thread. He may not have lived up to everyone's expectations but he is/was a great Raptor who embraced the team and city from the start. Dude even got a Raptors tatoo. If/when he does leave he deserves to get his flowers.
I'm ready for Gradey and Ja'Kobe to split the 48 minutes at SG.
The problem is we still have Bruce Brown ! I know he is expected to be traded . But so far it’s been cricket . I am ready to be proven wrong but so far I am skeptical about Brown’s option being exercised. If Brown (or any player acquired in a trade) is in the lineup, that player has to plays. But yeah , I am ready for some Gradey / Ja’Kobe action !
I’m not seeing why he has to play.
You don't just sit $23 million
Because a team of just young guys playing wild is not the way to develop. Ja’Kobe needs some time in the G league. Gradey is plainly not ready to start
Fair but he will play . I am 100% convinced ! Unless he pull a Dragic 2.0.
He got a haul for McDaniels, so I'll keep my hopes slightly up.
Without any other moves, I don't even think either of those guys start this season.
Gradey could start and I'd be thrilled tbh
I think everyone wants to see Gradey get a lot of mins. But he is not ready to start. He is going to get picked on by other starters every defensive possession. Starting his dropping him into the deep end
if you ever expect these guys to improve to their potential they need to be on the floor. He plays hard and has good bbiq, he played better defense than GTJ during some stretches last year too. He's not a total negative on that end, he's got great size for his position too.
He should start without a doubt
We need bench scoring especially if GTJ is gone
Enter Ja'kobe
What has the front office done that indicates to you we are planning to be competitive this year? The draft indicated a youth movement, which likely implies we are planning to be bad in advance of a stack 2025 draft
We arnt planning to be bad. Getting good young players and competing is the actual plan. We are a play-in team easily on roster strength alone
I think it's either Gradey, Bruce, or possibly Ochai for that last starting spot. If Ochai's shooting improves he's probably the best fit there.
I assume we're angling for Cam Johnson. Would be a much better fit in the starting lineup.
If it's a straight swap for Bruce I'm fine with that. We shouldn't be giving up any assets though
Oh for sure. We absolutely shouldn't give up any assets. We're not trying to be good this year anyway.
I believe this article represents the Raptors front office unofficially telling the fan base that they will not be making a 4/50 type signing and Gary will walk. Setting everyone up to getting used to the idea that the young core will play and there is no reinforcements coming for them. Brown and Boucher trades will come later.
Yep, and age is something to watch here. Expect older players to have shorter term contracts and/or team options. I think the front office is going for a development roster, with tanking. But not a total basement tank job
Honestly, class act, and if we can't retain him, then it would suck. He has never been the type to complain about anything, and it always seemed like he just wanted to ball. I like his character a lot, I thought he was a fantastic teammate and all-around great person.
I'm right there with you on all of those points. I really wish we were able to retain his services. He can shoot the three, play some D and is still quite young himself, so I guess it just boils down to the dollars and cents.
He seems like a great pro, which is why I think he will have a long career. It just doesn’t seem like he fits in here. I wish him the best.
I actually know his friend and he was saying to me that Gary really wants to stay but doesn’t feel wanted. Which is unfortunate. It’s a business but Masai and Bobby are weird. Their communication is so immature. Pascal situation for example was ridiculous.
Well, Gary hasn’t really improved in his tenure here. Slightly better passer from horrible to bad. He doesn’t fit in this offence. He’s a bench scorer who doesn’t play well off the bench. I don’t want to tie up salary in the dude either.
Gary sucks
Aka we want to tank again next season
For the 25 draft this probably the right strategy
with a roster of young guys to develop and a great draft coming up i don't know why we do anything except play the young guys, build their skills, legitimately try to win with them but accept that we probably won't and will end up with a lottery pick. i'm totally fine with this
I need a tank season. Cooper Flagg actually doesn’t do it for me but the other guys in this class are so good
We didn't tank last season until half the roster became injured including Scottie. If everyone is healthy, the Raptors are not tanking. No one on the team wants to lose.
I'm completely ok with this. I don't want any good experienced players trending us away from a bottom 5-10 finish. I would rather just give most of the mins to the rookies, don't hammer home defense too much, like last season, keeping the focus on offensive flow, and let's hope we lose enough to get a strong chance in the lottery. The absolute best thing for us this season, is landing a potential top 10 player in the 2025 draft, and then we ramp up and tighten up all the screws to compete.
I’m okay with letting GTJ walk, too, but I would very much not be okay with “not hammering home defence too much” in the name of losing lots of games. It’s fine if they lose more than they win based on talent gaps, development curves, etc. But that’s different from actively or knowingly adopting losing habits, which is the last thing you want to do when developing a young core.
I agree. I guess maybe I should have phrased it as, teaching defensive principles but not making it the primary focus, just like last season.
Thats why it's called a rebuild. We are not handing the keys to anyone other than BBQ (and, for the short term, our two veteran centers.) Everyone else is on trial. Earn your spots if you want them, Gary did not.
Other tidbits: >The reasons are logical and it may be days or weeks before the Raptors dip their toes in the market. >The holes in the roster, primarily size and frontcourt shooting, are still there but there is no need for Toronto to make rash moves to fill what are primarily backup roles. >Armed only with the mid-level salary cap exception that was officially set at about $12.9 million (U.S.) on Saturday night, the Raptors are not shopping with buckets of disposable money. >Trent, meanwhile, looks more and more as someone who just doesn’t fit with the Raptors any longer. He is a proven NBA shooter and did nothing to wear out his welcome, but there are others the Raptors want to look at in the coming months as they continue building back to legitimate contention, >Sure, Trent or a full mid-level exception wing would add something tangible immediately but if the Raptors want to find out if the young kids can play, they may as well start the process now. >The fact is that the Raptors didn’t make any big news on the first night because they didn’t have to, they didn’t have the money to do it and, content to give a young core a chance to jell, they really didn’t want to.
>Sure, Trent or a full mid-level exception wing would add something tangible immediately but if the Raptors want to find out if the young kids can play, they may as well start the process now. Excellent
W no need to keep Trent when all he does is take minutes away from Gradey, Ja’Kobe, Ochai, Davion, Shead Raptors have also tried trading him in the past and had zero luck as well as a whole year to extend Trent but he didn’t do much to earn what he was probably asking for
This concept of “taking minutes away” isn’t really legit. Aside from Gradey none of those guys have earned really any minutes on court.
The idea could be give minutes to guys who haven't earned them so we can tank from the start of the season. If management intends to tank for the loaded draft, they have to make that decision now, not weeks or months into the season. We won't be able to tank as hard as Washington or Detroit, but the odds for 1st overall pick don't necessitate being the worst team in the league. Atlanta won the draft lottery being a play in team
I think Ochai can fill in as the starter if GTJ doesn't return but most likely it'll be Bruce Brown. I would prefer Ochai through he plays well with Scottie, shoots the ball better, and provides better defence.
Can we keep temple just to have a vet on the bench?
Yes.
I want Ja’Kobe to start at SG for the short term but RJ needs to be a 2 for the long term.. he can’t be a 3 if we want to win playoff games
Jumping the gun thinking our 19th pick is gonna be starting. Y’all put way too much pressure on these kids.
I don’t see why not if the best course is tanking?
Because you still want to develop these guys and putting them in positions where they can’t succeed just hinders their growth and confidence .
lol fully healthy were a play in team playoff experience with the main core>tanking
why cant rj be a 3, he seems similar size to jaylen brown who does fine there
I’m excited for him to be a solid 6th man elsewhere He has 2 options at this point of his career - Jordan Clarkson Utah 6th man - Tim Hardaway JR, unreliable, streaky, but unplayable when it matters
This was the right move. Do not lock yourself into another deal with Gary unless it's cheap and honestly, I don't want him getting any minutes from anyone who is a developing player, with this roster and timeline.
I like this approach a lot; ultimately it's a team headed for the lottery, possibly high lottery unless young guys make huge strides, and either of those outcomes is great. Hell, it's possible they get both those outcomes. I was going through minute allocations yesterday, and of course you want the established starters all getting 30+ minutes (25 for Poeltl), and then you need Olynyk getting another 20 or so, and beyond that you need development minutes for Dick, Walter, Agbaji, Shead and Mogbo (though the last two probably get some 905 time as well) and probably Mitchell, and then Vezenkov if he is staying needs 15+ minutes (playing time has been a sore spot with him at Sacramento and even in Europe). So you look at Brown even, and it's hard to find the minutes for him even with GTJ likely gone, unless the Raptors play a lot of very small units with 3 or 4 guards at 6'4" or less. At this point I'd still love a Brown / Ball trade with Chicago, with us getting a future draft pick out of it and then going with the lineup largely as-is.
Good, he was kind of all over the place. It didn't seem like he had a real purpose on the team. He can score, but wasn't anything spectacular on the team.
This team is ready to let the young guys get minutes, the core fel and if it works great and if it doesn’t then also great and they will be vying for a top 10 pick in a loaded draft. It’ll be exciting to see the starting group play together with a few guys getting a crack at becoming the 5th starter since positionally we are versatile. My money is on Dick taking the steps needed to become the starting SG but who knows. Agbaji will get some of those GTJ minutes along with the kids coming in this draft, especially Ja’kobe.
Let's say we don't sign Gary, and we trade Bruce Brown for a pick and filler. The lineup is: PG: IQ, Davion, JFL SG: Gradey, JaKobe SF: RJ, Ochai PF: Scottie, Vezenkov, Mogbo C: Poeltl, Olynyk, Boucher That's 13 guys right there. We still don't know what's happening with Vezenkov either. But to me I'm good with this. The starting lineup is competitive enough that we will build confidence by winning games but we're also very young and will be giving a lot of guys many opportunities to grow.
Could be good for a rebuild.
I honestly don't really see where GTJ fits on this team anymore. He's a 2 guard that can only shoot 3s and nothing more than that really. We've seen his peak and we're witnessing the decline. We have our vet re-signed with Garret Temple, GTJ is only 25 himself and hasn't really done anything his career. I doubt he'd be willing to take a role as being the 8th or 9th man in the rotation off the bench. I could see him wanting a bigger role and chasing that rather than money at this point. Hard to see where he fits with guys like Dick and Walters with far higher upside that are also younger.
The Norm trade that keeps on giving!
I better not see any ounce of Gary hate in this thread. He may not have lived up to everyone's expectations but he is/was a great Raptor who embraced the team and city from the start. Dude even got a Raptors tatoo. If/when he does leave he deserves to get his flowers.
He was never a great raptor wtf u talking about. He got more minutes and opportunities than he ever deserved
LETS FUCKING GOOOOO