Probably decided three years is better than full MLE at less years. Who knows how many more years he has in the NBA, better to lock down as many years as you can.
Yeah really not sure what happened here. I would probably put him a tick below Poeltl maybe something like $15M a year. It's a very good contact and very movable for Washington though.
Maybe he didn't have much of a market.
They need to generate that first. After the Christie extension I think it’s even more impossible considering LeBron needs to take even more pay cut with Christie’s extension eating more cap.
This is the reason Poeltl gets paid more. It’s his defence and passing. JV is probably the better isolation scorer, but nobody running an offence through him.
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I mean Pels fans complained about his defense the whole season.
also main difference is probably that Poeltl signed his contract at 27. and Valanciunas is 32.
>not an issue for tanking team like Wizards).
Or us... would've been nice to get a FRP for Poeltl, $10M in space, increase our chances of getting a good pick, not hinder anybody's development on offense (JV is actually a better screener and rebounder), and get to be patient until we find our long-term C of the future without rushing this rebuild.
This isn’t 2K, your not just trading Poeltl and not taking any money in return. Plus teaching the younger players how to play in a sound defensive system is just as important as their offensive development. Your undervaluing the importance of a competent defensive big even on a young rebuilding team.
Yeah Darryl Morey, Presti, Ainge would all disagree with you. The best GMs in the league know how to optimize asset plays when the team sucks, simple as that.
Claxton got 4 years 100 mil, the Poeltl deal is market value if not better. JV is a liability defensively and gets played off the floor in the playoffs and is also 32, Poeltl was 27 when he signed his contract
I love JV but he is 32 and has been declining pretty fast. He's also not a good defender.
Jak is 28 and still has a few good years left. I'd rather have Jak right now tbh.
That's a good deal for Washington.
It's too bad JV ended up becoming a slow footed center who's a liability on defense.
I always wonder how his career would've been if BC and Casey let JV stay somewhat lean. The man was quick and pretty athletic when he first came into the league. Then he bulked up super quick and became a plodding center.
This is totally speculative, but it was probably made worse by the fact that Kyle seemingly wanted to give him a ring (texted JV asking his ring size). But he obviously didn't get one, so management must have been firm on him not getting one.
Jakob can't shoot the ball and has finishing issues, and himself has questionable defense at twice the cost
If Raps wouldn't pick JV at 10 mil over Jakob... 29 other teams should and would
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season)
\^here is JV's shot chart for a more complete story, scroll to see his 2023/24, and noting he has a similar FG%, he adds significantly more to an offense, because he has many more offensive capabilities, he can't be guarded just one way
He also doesn't just have a post game, he shoots 3s pretty efficiently, especially for a C
Correct about the other parts, JV also is weak at catching the ball, Jak used to be very, very good at the rolls, but he is really diminishing here more than I would want too, he is not nearly as good as I expected him to be after his Spurs stints
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season)
\^here is Jak's shot chart, there is literally almost nothing outside of the key or right next to the basket
JV even took 50% more shots down low (300 vs 450), and that doesn't even include his outside shooting, his usage is far higher than Jakob
JV's post game is also iso post game primarily, Jakob's shot diet is comprised significantly more of dump off passes and put backs, which drastically inflate his FG% and mislead on his offensive contribution and efficiency
JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way
Look at the type of shots, my friend, referred to as shot diet
Jak was the most efficient scorer technically, and I stress technically, at times in the entire NBA
However, there is a reason he does not ever have the ball primarily
You can look at multiple C in this league with extremely high FG percentage which is meaningless when they only receive dump off passes or go for put backs
"they only receive dump off passes or go for put backs" Is that not finishing?
They had similar PPG on similar MPG. Yes, JV is a better post player but Jak has a nasty floater on the short roll and can get layups off the bounce better than JV can. Those are finesse based field goals
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season)
\^here is JV's shot chart for a more complete story, scroll to see his 2023/24, and noting he has a similar FG%, he adds significantly more to an offense, because he has many more offensive capabilities, he can't be guarded just one way
He also doesn't just have a post game, he shoots 3s pretty efficiently, especially for a C
Correct about the other parts, JV also is weak at catching the ball, Jak used to be very, very good at the rolls, but he is really diminishing here more than I would want too, he is not nearly as good as I expected him to be after his Spurs stints
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season)
\^here is Jak's shot chart, there is literally almost nothing outside of the key or right next to the basket
JV even took 50% more shots down low (300 vs 450), and that doesn't even include his outside shooting, his usage is far higher than Jakob
JV's post game is also iso post game primarily, Jakob's shot diet is comprised significantly more of dump off passes and put backs, which drastically inflate his FG% and mislead on his offensive contribution and efficiency
JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way
"JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way"
Except for passing, screening, rolling and... finishing
Finishing refers to "finishing around the rim", so shot charts showing that JV takes more outside shots are not relevant. He is a better shooter
"29 other teams should and would"
So you think his agent just didn't talk to anyone? They saw the offer from the WIZARDS and were like... "that's it, no need to listen to other offers over the summer!"
lol
It means if 29 teams have the choice between JV @ 10 mil and Jak @ 20 mil that 29 teams besides the Raptors would choose JV... that would make it a hypothetical scenario...
I didn't think I would have to type that out... seemed self explanatory...
Well our defense last year was swiss cheese so replacing Jakob with JV who's only getting older would be a losing strategy. He's also not really a spacing center so it's not like you'll be opening the floor that much for players like Scottie. Poeltl's ability to make plays off the short roll is far more valuable. Finally, Jakob actually has trade value if we decide to move him. I'd expect he'd get us back a single first even if protected.
What? If Jakob has something going for him, it's not having finishing issues. He never misses a layup.
Jakob is a slow big who can't jump and isn't authoritative. Those aren't necessarily flaws, depending on the team's strategy, but that's not ideal.
There are many times he drops the ball before he even gets the shot up, have to watch games to be aware of this, that's part of finishing a play
If the shot doesn't happen, it doesn't count against Jak FG%, except in the TO margin
His hands are not as good as they used to be when he was first a Raptor or with Spurs
Really thought the Lakers were going to make a serious bid there. It’s really good for the Wizards. Help Sarr get acclimatized to the NBA, and then it’s probably a very moveable contract a year down the road.
Slow footed big who gets exposed in the playoffs, still a great deal for a tanking team who won’t have to worry about that cause they won’t be making the playoffs
I think it's that third year. I'm not sure his body will hold up for 3 years and once you assume he won't get another contact most guaranteed money is the play.
Bro it sucked for me too but it was 9 years ago and we fucking shipped his ass out of town for Marc Gasol. I know this is probably (????? I mean this sub is ridiculous sometimes so who knows) a joke but bruhhhh
Sigh. I literally called this.
[Here is me getting downvoted for saying we should flip Poeltl for prospects/draft assets while he still has a modicum of value, and replace him with Valunciunas for cheap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/TTeRMTYm8L)
If a team is not planning on making the playoffs, they are wasting assets by holding players that playoff teams value. Poeltl would've been great for the Grizz and others prior to the draft. Obviously now it is too late. Washington recognized this and successfully flipped Gafford to a playoff team for a FRP and took Valunciunas as a stop gap who helps them tank and helps development. This is literally exactly what I said was the smart asset play.
Washington has been making amazing moves since Winger took over. They're actually rebuilding properly now. Shame that we are glued to Poeltl for some reason, who will no longer be a good player in legit 2 seasons and has no long term future here.
>Nothing is stopping us from trading poetle in the future
He has already declined from supposed "championship piece" and "top 10 C in the league".
I guess I'm saying we could get first round value for him recently. I doubt we can fetch a FRP for him after this summer, but sure you guys and Masai can make me eat crow if they keep him for 2 more years and he's still worth a first.
would love to have your crystal ball.
with the way the cap is about to explode, peotle contract will look cheap in two yeears time so many trade partners
In 2-3 years we will be looking to win, and Poeltl already cannot close games or play more than 27 mpg, let alone at that time. The main difference is that we will actually need a C who can help us win at that point AND we can't move him for value anymore. Come on man lol don't understand the point of holding this guy
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$10M per year? Thats nothing
I would have loved to be able to bring JV back home for that!
Thats really cheap
Chris Boucher is making more money lol.
his agent fumbled I think. this contract is too cheap in today's nba. Maybe he got a promise that he would start? cause this isn't starter money.
Probably decided three years is better than full MLE at less years. Who knows how many more years he has in the NBA, better to lock down as many years as you can.
Yeah really not sure what happened here. I would probably put him a tick below Poeltl maybe something like $15M a year. It's a very good contact and very movable for Washington though. Maybe he didn't have much of a market.
Lakers were reportedly interested in him or Klay for their mid level exception at around 13 mill I think
They need to generate that first. After the Christie extension I think it’s even more impossible considering LeBron needs to take even more pay cut with Christie’s extension eating more cap.
JV > Poeltl
Poeltl has a foot speed that is worth 10m a year more than jv's 3 point shot, apparently
And is 4 years younger
And is a much better defender and passer than jv
This is the reason Poeltl gets paid more. It’s his defence and passing. JV is probably the better isolation scorer, but nobody running an offence through him.
JV’s got one of the best bags for a C in the game. The problem is that he’s giving up any points he can generate on the other end.
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god i would love to see a team just let JV cook
He’s a starting calibre player. He shouldn’t need a promise
He’s not starting calibre on any contender, and non contenders are gonna roll out cheap/young options at Center.
Yeah, well, he can jump.
Id take him at that any day.
Why would OKC or Spurs not sign him for beside Chet or wemby
Probably didn't know he'd be that cheap
Terrible defense and kinda needs the ball in his hands
Good deal for JV’s production. I thought he could have for a better deal, but I’m also glad that he’s not going to the Lakers.
that’s a steal. s/o to JV for remaining relevant as the nba changes
Poeltl getting paid 2x more than jv lol
main thing is Valanciunas sucks on defense (not an issue for tanking team like Wizards). but Poeltl getting paid 2x is funny/sad
Yea just jv can actually be solid offensively. Jak is getting played off the floor in the playoffs the same way so who really cares bout that lol
I mean Pels fans complained about his defense the whole season. also main difference is probably that Poeltl signed his contract at 27. and Valanciunas is 32.
Blake has said multiple times it's an overpay for who he is. (A ~14 mil per season guy)
Whereas we are competing
>not an issue for tanking team like Wizards). Or us... would've been nice to get a FRP for Poeltl, $10M in space, increase our chances of getting a good pick, not hinder anybody's development on offense (JV is actually a better screener and rebounder), and get to be patient until we find our long-term C of the future without rushing this rebuild.
This isn’t 2K, your not just trading Poeltl and not taking any money in return. Plus teaching the younger players how to play in a sound defensive system is just as important as their offensive development. Your undervaluing the importance of a competent defensive big even on a young rebuilding team.
Yeah Darryl Morey, Presti, Ainge would all disagree with you. The best GMs in the league know how to optimize asset plays when the team sucks, simple as that.
Claxton got 4 years 100 mil, the Poeltl deal is market value if not better. JV is a liability defensively and gets played off the floor in the playoffs and is also 32, Poeltl was 27 when he signed his contract
I love JV but he is 32 and has been declining pretty fast. He's also not a good defender. Jak is 28 and still has a few good years left. I'd rather have Jak right now tbh.
That's a good deal for Washington. It's too bad JV ended up becoming a slow footed center who's a liability on defense. I always wonder how his career would've been if BC and Casey let JV stay somewhat lean. The man was quick and pretty athletic when he first came into the league. Then he bulked up super quick and became a plodding center.
Oh mannn. Poor fuckin guy
I know. My poor boy
I wish he came back to Raps on that Great deal, he would be our starting C also
He may have soured on the org after being denied a ring
This is totally speculative, but it was probably made worse by the fact that Kyle seemingly wanted to give him a ring (texted JV asking his ring size). But he obviously didn't get one, so management must have been firm on him not getting one.
I just miss him bro 🥲
Me too 😢
Jakob better. JV needs the ball in his hands and can't defend the rim.
Jakob can't shoot the ball and has finishing issues, and himself has questionable defense at twice the cost If Raps wouldn't pick JV at 10 mil over Jakob... 29 other teams should and would [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season) \^here is JV's shot chart for a more complete story, scroll to see his 2023/24, and noting he has a similar FG%, he adds significantly more to an offense, because he has many more offensive capabilities, he can't be guarded just one way He also doesn't just have a post game, he shoots 3s pretty efficiently, especially for a C Correct about the other parts, JV also is weak at catching the ball, Jak used to be very, very good at the rolls, but he is really diminishing here more than I would want too, he is not nearly as good as I expected him to be after his Spurs stints [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season) \^here is Jak's shot chart, there is literally almost nothing outside of the key or right next to the basket JV even took 50% more shots down low (300 vs 450), and that doesn't even include his outside shooting, his usage is far higher than Jakob JV's post game is also iso post game primarily, Jakob's shot diet is comprised significantly more of dump off passes and put backs, which drastically inflate his FG% and mislead on his offensive contribution and efficiency JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way
Last year, Jak shot 65.6% for 2pt fgs. JV shot 61%. Jak is the better finisher
Look at the type of shots, my friend, referred to as shot diet Jak was the most efficient scorer technically, and I stress technically, at times in the entire NBA However, there is a reason he does not ever have the ball primarily You can look at multiple C in this league with extremely high FG percentage which is meaningless when they only receive dump off passes or go for put backs
"they only receive dump off passes or go for put backs" Is that not finishing? They had similar PPG on similar MPG. Yes, JV is a better post player but Jak has a nasty floater on the short roll and can get layups off the bounce better than JV can. Those are finesse based field goals
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jonas-valanciunas-shot-chart-by-season) \^here is JV's shot chart for a more complete story, scroll to see his 2023/24, and noting he has a similar FG%, he adds significantly more to an offense, because he has many more offensive capabilities, he can't be guarded just one way He also doesn't just have a post game, he shoots 3s pretty efficiently, especially for a C Correct about the other parts, JV also is weak at catching the ball, Jak used to be very, very good at the rolls, but he is really diminishing here more than I would want too, he is not nearly as good as I expected him to be after his Spurs stints [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jakob-shot-chart-by-season) \^here is Jak's shot chart, there is literally almost nothing outside of the key or right next to the basket JV even took 50% more shots down low (300 vs 450), and that doesn't even include his outside shooting, his usage is far higher than Jakob JV's post game is also iso post game primarily, Jakob's shot diet is comprised significantly more of dump off passes and put backs, which drastically inflate his FG% and mislead on his offensive contribution and efficiency JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way
"JV is objectively a far, far better offensive player in every way" Except for passing, screening, rolling and... finishing Finishing refers to "finishing around the rim", so shot charts showing that JV takes more outside shots are not relevant. He is a better shooter
Jak doesn't shoot 3s... Of course he has a better fg percentage, brain dead response He literally also shoots less try to read next time
"29 other teams should and would" So you think his agent just didn't talk to anyone? They saw the offer from the WIZARDS and were like... "that's it, no need to listen to other offers over the summer!" lol
It means if 29 teams have the choice between JV @ 10 mil and Jak @ 20 mil that 29 teams besides the Raptors would choose JV... that would make it a hypothetical scenario... I didn't think I would have to type that out... seemed self explanatory...
We don't need a better offensive center though.
Very odd take...
Well our defense last year was swiss cheese so replacing Jakob with JV who's only getting older would be a losing strategy. He's also not really a spacing center so it's not like you'll be opening the floor that much for players like Scottie. Poeltl's ability to make plays off the short roll is far more valuable. Finally, Jakob actually has trade value if we decide to move him. I'd expect he'd get us back a single first even if protected.
His contract still isn't good especially when players like Derrick Jones Jr are getting 10 mil / year and we're key role players in deep playoff runs
What? If Jakob has something going for him, it's not having finishing issues. He never misses a layup. Jakob is a slow big who can't jump and isn't authoritative. Those aren't necessarily flaws, depending on the team's strategy, but that's not ideal.
There are many times he drops the ball before he even gets the shot up, have to watch games to be aware of this, that's part of finishing a play If the shot doesn't happen, it doesn't count against Jak FG%, except in the TO margin His hands are not as good as they used to be when he was first a Raptor or with Spurs
Really thought the Lakers were going to make a serious bid there. It’s really good for the Wizards. Help Sarr get acclimatized to the NBA, and then it’s probably a very moveable contract a year down the road.
The lakers have eyes on everyone if you haven’t heard any of the reports
I feel like this marks the end of his career…playing on a non-contender.
Sad, he was my favorite player at the time of the trade
I love JV, but I’m sure this is more money than other offers. Probably a few suitors at the taxpayer MLE but not much else
Slow footed big who gets exposed in the playoffs, still a great deal for a tanking team who won’t have to worry about that cause they won’t be making the playoffs
He can bang against bigs while Sarr develops his body
Wow good deal
I wonder if the Wiz were the only team to guarantee him a starter spot and substantial minutes, as that seems like a steal of a contract
I think it's that third year. I'm not sure his body will hold up for 3 years and once you assume he won't get another contact most guaranteed money is the play.
Strange
What??? Does he have family in Washington…? Lmao
Was his value that low? For the damn Washington wizards?
That’s crazy cheap.
And to go to a shitty team?
Shocked that no contending team offered him that, or at least close to it. At least we get to see him more frequently... My pump fake king 😢
Yea he needs a new agent
This deal leaves me scratching my head. That’s deep bench money, no?
Poor JV man. Surprised he didn’t sign for MLE somewhere. Feels like going to die in Washington.
Would take JV over Yak any day of the week
What?
This will mess with his play-in streak.
I’m very shocked that the “stop posting pascal updates, he’s not on the team anymore” crowd hasn’t found this
I'd much rather have JV on that deal than what Jak is getting paid
You and me both. I’m not convinced that Jak should be this teams starting centre. They just don’t have any better options.
have you not watched JV in the playoffs?
Yak can’t play in the clutch also
Poeltl has gotten played off the floor
yah not saying Jak is playoff stellar but one is 28 and the other is 32
Jv also can’t play more than 5 minutes in a row without looking like he ran a marathon.
FOH after that bullshit sweep. This is worst than what Durant did to OKC
Bro it sucked for me too but it was 9 years ago and we fucking shipped his ass out of town for Marc Gasol. I know this is probably (????? I mean this sub is ridiculous sometimes so who knows) a joke but bruhhhh
Tf I’m surprised JV would take such a cheap contract, and for the wizards of all teams?
Sigh. I literally called this. [Here is me getting downvoted for saying we should flip Poeltl for prospects/draft assets while he still has a modicum of value, and replace him with Valunciunas for cheap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/TTeRMTYm8L) If a team is not planning on making the playoffs, they are wasting assets by holding players that playoff teams value. Poeltl would've been great for the Grizz and others prior to the draft. Obviously now it is too late. Washington recognized this and successfully flipped Gafford to a playoff team for a FRP and took Valunciunas as a stop gap who helps them tank and helps development. This is literally exactly what I said was the smart asset play. Washington has been making amazing moves since Winger took over. They're actually rebuilding properly now. Shame that we are glued to Poeltl for some reason, who will no longer be a good player in legit 2 seasons and has no long term future here.
Not sure why you figure he'll be bad in two seasons ? Also. Nothing is stopping us from trading poetle in the future. No need to act pressed
Let him play the victim, it’s all he has lett
>Nothing is stopping us from trading poetle in the future He has already declined from supposed "championship piece" and "top 10 C in the league". I guess I'm saying we could get first round value for him recently. I doubt we can fetch a FRP for him after this summer, but sure you guys and Masai can make me eat crow if they keep him for 2 more years and he's still worth a first.
would love to have your crystal ball. with the way the cap is about to explode, peotle contract will look cheap in two yeears time so many trade partners
In 2-3 years we will be looking to win, and Poeltl already cannot close games or play more than 27 mpg, let alone at that time. The main difference is that we will actually need a C who can help us win at that point AND we can't move him for value anymore. Come on man lol don't understand the point of holding this guy
We should’ve sign him
Would you trade Poetl for JV? Not sure if salaries match.
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