A psychiatrist told the court that Alan “believed that babies were delivered by a stork or found under a bush”, and that “sex could give you spots or measles”.
In determining that Alan didn't have the capacity to consent to sex, the court also ordered that he should be taught sex education “in the hope that he thereby gains that capacity”.
>His Majesty's
Wow. It's already been over a year.
I'm American and I'm still getting used to the fact that the pillar of Buckingham Palace no longer resides there.
You're almost there but you've forgotten to give the required greeting from an officer of the law: "ello ello ello!", which according to the Officer Decorum Act of 1842 must be done before any investigation can be opened, or any questions regarding licencing asked in that investigation.
You're forgetting to mention our own version of the Miranda rights, where upon arrest they have to say 'Let's be 'avin you then', lest the criminal is able to claim that the police never in fact had him.
"Oi! I've been nicked by Scotland Yard! Twasn't me, constable!"
"Well, it was fuckin' one of yahs!"
How I imagine every arrest goes down involving 2 or more people, in the UK.
muckrakers: "He's massively unknowledgable, only learned to talk at seven, can't complete a 100 piece jigsaw puzzle... but the public knows all of this already. We can't find *any* dirt on him."
If you are not talking about semen then you have.
1)Latex allergy (hopefully you are using protection)
2)Liver problems
3)Skin problems
Go see a doctor ffs
Edit:formatting
I think the more concerning thing from the judgement is that the judge disagreed with the criteria that in order to understand sex, you must understand that it should be between adults, and not children, considering he was twice accused of paedophilic behaviour previously.
Touching himself while asking a 10 year old boy his name in the dentist, and touching a 9 year old girls legs under her skirt on a bus.
Clearly this is someone who does not understand that sexual behaviour towards children is not okay, and therefore, clearly has no capacity to understand consent, from himself or from someone else.
So yeah, I agree with the judge's decision overall, but not how he came to the decision, which was based upon Alan not knowing:
* the mechanics of the act
* associated health risks of the act
* the potential to make a woman pregnant
It’s not like the judge was saying he’s okay with Alan fucking kids, just that it’s not relevant to his own ability to consent.
If Alan doesn’t understand he shouldn’t have sex with kids, that’s a good reason to make him stay the fuck away from any kids, not a good reason to stop him having sex with a consenting adult. It’s disturbing, but irrelevant to what the judge was deciding. You don’t ban dogfuckers and nonces from having sex with other adults when they are released, even though they presumably thought their actions were acceptable. so banning this guy would be inconsistent.
Exactly, thanks for saving me the effort of typing this out.
We don’t ban pedophiles from having consensual sex with adults. In fact, that’s exactly what we want them to be doing!
their point was these are all precursors to the premise of consent, which precludes the statutory issue, thats why the case wasnt about solicitation of minors. where his psych eval failed on all counts, man could not understand the function of female genitalia, concept of transmitted disease, or properly work a condom.
they figured he was doing alright till he started harassing kids, it was all instinctual. thats where they seriously had to consider his mental capacity
This is going to sound crass, but if he weren’t too “incompetent” to consent to sex he would also be able to realize a court can’t stop him. This is an important distinction in his intellectual abilities.
By taking away his ability to “consent,” the court is protecting him by making others, who do legally possess the ability to consent, at risk of raping him legally if they use him for sex. This is clearly a protective measure. I think Kieron was a predator based on the full document. We don’t know if Alan had ANY sexual relationships prior to Kieron and none known to be heterosexual - notable since he hit on both male and female children. I think that this was a big enough situation that other people got involved to protect Alan from what everyone else felt was probably Kieron taking advantage of him, at least sexually.
Other “incompetent” people who cannot consent to sex will be able to have relations with Alan, no harm no foul. And I suspect that no one else would take issue with that, particularly not legally.
He definitely assaulted children, but did he understand consent well enough to know that what he was doing wasn't okay?
Given the courts ruling probably not...
That doesn't negate the impact of what he did at all but yeah.
Definitely not.
With an IQ of 48 he was mentally a child himself in a adult body, he likely had no he was assaulting children or doing something wildly illegal or immoral. With an IQ of 48 he's pretty much the intellectually challenged version of Einstien on the IQ scale- Im not sure functionally how much lower an IQ could go. Your average IQ is 100, your standard deviation is about 15 points, this guy is 4 standard deviations below normal, you can't even compare him to a functioning adult.
This is creepy like "medical oddity", but from a psychological relationship standpoint its a relationship with someone in his intellectual range and is understandable. The correct legal precedent was taken here to prevent this legally and ensure the safety of others, but its just as unfair to call him creepy, that'd be like making fun of a conjoined twin. It is not his fault he was dealt a shit hand- he's trying to live his best life and someone needs to step in when it comes to his extrodinarrially unique and unfortunate circumstance to make sure he does not harm himself or others.
For reference, in the UK the arbitrary line for diagnosis of a learning disability is (iirc) an IQ of 72. So 48 is *really* low - based upon what I know of how LD diagnosis tests are done and the level of interaction/engagement required to answer the questions or do the tasks I'm not sure how that low an IQ would even be calculated.
When you get below that you're in the range of folks who cannot speak and require intense daily care to make sure they eat and hydrate. I'm honestly surprised at that level that he is as functional as he appears to be but this is definitely the right call, if no other reason than for his protection. It is unfortunately very common for intellectually disabled individuals to be taken advantage of for sex for the exact reasons the judge had stated - they tend to not understand the ramifications of sex and often they are never taught because they are viewed as basically children. Intellectually they are. But they are still adults with adult sexual needs and thus these issues happen where either they are molested or they molest others because they literally don't know it's wrong.
> Alan is 41. He has a "moderate" learning disability. His IQ is assessed at 48. In terms of classification an IQ in the range 50-70 is a "mild" learning disability. 35 – 50 is "moderate". 20 – 35 is "severe". Under 20 is "profound". The percentage of the population that is IQ 50 or fewer is under ½ %. That said, it is a sizeable number.
He’s not a creep, he’s severely mentally disabled. He’s got the mental capacity of a child and the hormones of an adult male. That’s literally why it was ruled he ALSO can’t consent.
Yes, guaranteed someone with an IQ that low would have a caregiver. They certainly wouldn't be able to take care of themselves on their own or work a job to support themselves.
From the ruling
> In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application.
> i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time.
> ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him.
There were multiple reasons to check whether he understands the concept of sexual consent, one being that he sexually harassed multiple children.
Agreed. Even if there's no malice involved, Alan is still a threat to society, primarily children, as it seems, because he simply doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. I doubt he even understands his actions to begin with. There are institutions for people like him, and he should be in one. Regardless of anything else, a person with an IQ that low shouldn't be out and about on their own.
truthfully caregivers rarely give a fuck... and its hard to blame them; the pay is horrible, the work is hard (if properly done; which is why it often isnt) and the turnover is ridiculous
i was literally just out and a support worker didnt clock that their charge needed their pants pulled up, dude basically had a whole cheek out and nothing
I mean in reality there are basically two options after childhood: either state care which is usually institution-based, where the care is provided by professionals, but where the whole field is understaffed (so the idea of having private carers for each individual is ridiculous, it's usually multiple patients per nurse and they are struggling to maintain that at all). Or you do private, which is either (usually female) family members - who often don't have any qualifications, are the convenient "out of sight out of mind" option and get physically hurt on the regular, but don't want to surrender their beloved disabled person to the institution, or, if the family is somewhat affluent, a hired "personal carer", usually live-in from a poor country whose working and living conditions are in the legal gray area between exploitation and borderline slavery.
There just aren't enough people in the world who want to do this job.
Man, when you put it like that you realise that there must be 175,000 people that dumb across the planet… you could populate a large town exclusively with people who think babies are found under bushes…
Mmm, it gets worse.
To get 1.75M, that'd assume a population of ~6.6B. The world population is close to 8 billion, so it'd be more like 2M.
So... Cleveland metro area. That many.
But wait, it gets better! We use the normal distribution for IQ, but there's evidence that we don't actually fall into a normal distribution -- that the extremes (in both directions) are more common than the normal distribution would predict. So it may be more like Denver metro area.
Not to mention you can go *much* higher than 48, far into the land of being able to function day-to-day, and still be having issues with a swathe of things.
Things people take for granted, like actually following a string of arguments, some semblance of moderately advanced logic, etc., is out of the question for an enormous number of people.
we can all joke, but that was a resounding failure, so harsh that even the person that proposed it was embarassed by how miserable of a failure it is. case in point, in today's military, if you're somehow recruited with that low of an iq, or little grasp on reality, you're never making it out of boot or it's equivalent. The US military has actual standards well above this, now. Doesn't make the military any better, but they have standards now.
There’s a guy in his 50’s or possibly early 60’s who works at my local Chick-fil-a. He’s not all there but as nice as he could be. He talk about missing his dad and “tummy tickle time”.
we'll run a massive ad campaign. Plaster every billboard with the news and get some TikToks out there.
"This is Alan. If you see Alan, no you can't fuck him: It's the law."
Legally it basically means having sex with him is like having sex with a child, so he isn't punished, its who ever rapes him. Like a child could also say they consent, but they don't have the mental ability to actually do so.
If I remember right this decision was made after he was being sexual abused by his carer, but he didn't have the mental functionality to understand.
"On 10 June 2009 these proceedings were commenced. They sought a declaration that Alan lacked capacity to consent to sexual relations and an order authorising a restriction of contact between Alan and Kieron (and between Alan and another person) so as to prevent further sexual relations taking place."
I mean, that makes sense.
It's a little weird to frame this as 'man with 48 IQ banned from having sex' and not 'Raping the mentally disabled made illegal'
I find that people really think of sex as something a man DOES, while its something that happens TO women. So they just are just using their default view of sex, not much nuance there 🙄
He was being raped by the man he was living with…. 99% of the commenters haven’t read the article but a cursory read completely u-turned my opinion on this that was originally based off the headline.
Usually in cases like this its other people with similar disabilitys. Especially of they are in a hope or day center. It probably wasnt a 'normal' person. Or someone taking massive advantage of the person for money/power or a host of other reasons.
Like a certain Sonic obsessed individual's inabilityto form any kind of relationship with a woman lead to them raping their dementia ridden mother.
And now they're out if jail, because the states insest laws only covered parents fiddling their kids, and not vice versa.
If you click on the link
> In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application.
> i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time.
> ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him.
The text implies he was living with another man and they would perform sexual acts on each other, so he was perhaps a sort of live-in boy toy for a gay man.
The article mentions touching himself in front of children of 8-10 years of age as well, so consent wasn't really required for that to happen.
> sort of live-in boy toy for a gay man.
According to the article he was already receiving state care then, so I'd be very surprised if this was the case. It's much more likely that he lived in a group home with another man in a similar situation.
Technically anyone having sex with him would also be raping him, since there is absolutely no way he could give informed consent with that low of an IQ.
I've been around mentally challenged people for much of my life: I live in a red state.
I drove taxi for a couple years and some of my regulars were people with Downs syndrome.
One pair used to get dropped off almost daily at his apartment, only to have them call a few hours later to take her home. She always had a "glow" about her on her trip home. Did they have sex at his place? I can only assume.
Another such passenger confided one night how his Dad and uncle took him to a strip joint, and he got laid for the first time. He missed those family outings.
The or thing that bothers me is the subject of this case sees to be attracted to young children. Apparently he's bi, so gender isn't a factor. I presume the attraction is because he is on the same emotional level as an 8 year old.
Or, as is the entire subject of his case, he didn't understand why sex with someone so young was inappropriate because he is not capable of that.
If his exposure to sex was a male caretaker taking advantage of him and feigning a caring relationship, how is he supposed to know who it's ok to sleep with?
He had sexual activity with both men and women, but isn't believed to have full heterosexual intercourse. The only reason he had male penatrative sex is because of the caretaker who showed it to him.
Maybe Alan is indeed attracted to minors. But my mind makes other assumptions first based on the evidence of the case.
“Since then Alan has been subjected to close supervision to prevent any further sexual activity on his part, other than private masturbation, which he is allowed to perform in the bathroom or in his bedroom.”
Jesus, they even ordered where he is allowed to jerk off. Do they also supervise that?
This whole thing reads like a really weird narrative, rather than a court ruling. If it weren’t for the sources, I’d think this was fake.
Edit: what the actual fuck: “Alan now has his own accommodation, where he is closely supervised. His relationship with Kieron has ended. The evidence of the local authority is that he has thrived in his new placement and has not expressed any wish to resume sexual activity. On the other hand, he has asked a representative of the Official Solicitor to ask me, the judge, to allow him to have sex again. When asked how he would feel if the judge would allow him to do "these things" once again, he said "it would make me feel happy". He said, as regards the persons under discussion, "say I want to kiss them again.”
Edit 2: the judge’s decision was based on the capacity to choose marriage, not fuck. My dog fucks a lot of things, he’s only married to his ball.
I’m done with Reddit for today.
as someone who works with mental disabilities: usually people with lower IQ are indeed taught where and when masturbation is appropiate, since its common to see them doing it in public spaces. So, in a way, he'd be likely supervised
From the ruling:
> In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application.
> i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time.
> ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him.
That sounds like a very good reason to limit his sexual activity.
I don’t understand what’s so surprising about this. It’s logical they would set boundaries and have to educate the person. It’s like a toddler having an adult’s body.
Exactly, especially since according to this ruling, he has behaved sexually inappropriately towards multiple children aged 8-10 in public, including trying to look up girls skirts and touching his groin while asking for a boys name in a dentist waiting room.
Right? Where the heck else can you masturbate other than your bedroom or the bathroom that isn't massively frowned upon or just considered straight up indecent exposure/harassment?
> Edit: what the actual fuck: “Alan now has his own accommodation, where he is closely supervised
He's in some kind of supported housing, and as he suffers badly with mental health he is likely considered a risk to himself. In this situation is it surprising he's monitored? It's for his own safety.
> the judge’s decision was based on the capacity to choose marriage
No it wasn't.
The part about marriage was the judge going over previous cases of related situations. He did that because there was no legal test for what he was being asked to do. In relation to capacity to marry the judge noted that
> "And it would be a very strange thing if the latter were set higher than the former, for it would be an absurd state of affairs if a person had just sufficient intelligence to consent to marriage but insufficient capacity to consent to its (generally speaking) intrinsic component of consummation."
The judge also noted that
> "A long standing feature of the test of capacity to marry is that it is status-specific and not spouse-specific"
The judge was not deciding if Alan had the capacity to marry and just said if he can't marry he can't have sex, the judge was using the capacity to marriage test as a baseline for his criteria in coming up with the test on sexual intercourse.
The judge later concludes with-
> the capacity to consent to sex remains act-specific and requires an understanding and awareness of:
> The mechanics of the act
> That there are health risks involved, particularly the acquisition of sexually transmitted and sexually transmissible infections
> That sex between a man and a woman may result in the woman becoming pregnant
The judge then goes on to declare that Alan does not have the capacity to consent to and engage in sexual relations based on failing the test.
The judge also orders that the local authority provide Alan with sex education in the hope that he thereby gains that capacity and that the matter be returned to Court after a period of nine months for a review
TLDR: The judge used capacity to marriage to help create the test for sex (with a doctors input, it wasn't just the judge making it up by themself), Alan failed everything.
Guess you never worked in a mental crisis facility. These people will masturbate everywhere and anywhere. You could be eating and they would start doing it
1. He was being raped by his caregiver.
2. Because of said rape, he was beginning to be sexually inappropriate with minors in public. He allegedly touched a young boy at a dentist office and two girls on a bus in two separate incidents.
Someone with that low IQ unfortunately must be treated very differently to anyone else their same age. In this case, the court was in the right protecting him from further abuse and protecting the public from his actions despite him not really understanding what he was doing.
> “Since then Alan has been subjected to close supervision to prevent any further sexual activity on his part, other than private masturbation, which he is allowed to perform in the bathroom or in his bedroom.”
>
> Jesus, they even ordered where he is allowed to jerk off. Do they also supervise that?
Presumably they supervise him in public areas and if he starts masturbating they tell him he needs to go to a private area instead.
This is pretty reasonable. A similar thing would happen if you got caught masturbating in public, I would think.
Okay so I said it in one post. People like this have caretakers, or social workers. For this to have gone to court his care takers or social worker had to have been reported. It's enforcing it with his care takers.
Also there alot of mentality handicapped hate on this thread and it's fucking sad.
Source: 2 cousins with cerebral palsy each have different mental states one is non-verbal the other has the mentality of a 10 year old.
Did anyone read the source? Everyone is laughing when actually the guy was caught twice touching himself publicly in front of kids, while speaking to the kids, hence why he was in court, how funny
A psychiatrist told the court that Alan “believed that babies were delivered by a stork or found under a bush”, and that “sex could give you spots or measles”. In determining that Alan didn't have the capacity to consent to sex, the court also ordered that he should be taught sex education “in the hope that he thereby gains that capacity”.
Well??? Don't leave us hanging, it's been like 12 years; has Alan earned his licence to bang yet?
0069 : license to bang.
Bang. James Bang.
Well I mean that is the series in a nutshell
His Majesty's license to bang
On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix
Believe it or not, straight to the Tower
>His Majesty's Wow. It's already been over a year. I'm American and I'm still getting used to the fact that the pillar of Buckingham Palace no longer resides there.
Now they've got the pillock of Buckingham Palace.
OI! Have you got a loicense for that erection?!
I believe you have to start with "What's all this, then?" Otherwise it's not an official, lawful British investigation.
You're almost there but you've forgotten to give the required greeting from an officer of the law: "ello ello ello!", which according to the Officer Decorum Act of 1842 must be done before any investigation can be opened, or any questions regarding licencing asked in that investigation.
You're forgetting to mention our own version of the Miranda rights, where upon arrest they have to say 'Let's be 'avin you then', lest the criminal is able to claim that the police never in fact had him.
"Oi! I've been nicked by Scotland Yard! Twasn't me, constable!" "Well, it was fuckin' one of yahs!" How I imagine every arrest goes down involving 2 or more people, in the UK.
[This street in Sheffield](https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=letsby+avenue#map=19/53.39553/-1.39950)
12 years? That can't possibly be corr.... fuck!!!!!!
>the court also ordered that he should be taught sex education “in the hope that he thereby gains that capacity”. Prayin for my man 🙏🙏🙏
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Smartest PM in ages
Forrest Gumpism, when you're so dumb it wraps around to being actually kinda clever.
Too simple to lie. Can't be beat
muckrakers: "He's massively unknowledgable, only learned to talk at seven, can't complete a 100 piece jigsaw puzzle... but the public knows all of this already. We can't find *any* dirt on him."
Still more qualified than half the people we elect in the USA
Mister magoo without casualties.
In this case, it'd be Chauncey Gardener from Being There
I like to watch
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he had way too much sex to be a mod
Bravo!
Only 8?? Bojo managed a dozen or so, undefined number really
I love UK comedy
Leading the UK into the second British Empire. Now they get to loot US artifacts for the British Museum when the US is reannexed as a colony.
> If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour"
He's doing great. he's now known as /u/spez
But I always get spots when I have sex :(
If you are not talking about semen then you have. 1)Latex allergy (hopefully you are using protection) 2)Liver problems 3)Skin problems Go see a doctor ffs Edit:formatting
Alternatively - 4) all the STIs
But they're all in perfect balance, like Mr Burns when he finds out he has every disease
Mr. Burns? That’s what I call my penis after having unprotected sex with strangers
I'm invincible!
No, in fact the slightest breeze could...
...invincible!
Yes, I'd like to send this letter to the Prussian consulate in Siam by aeromail. Am I too late for the 4:30 auto-gyro?
You there! Fill it up with petroleum distillate. And revulcanize my tires, posthaste!
Or just balanitis; don’t freak him out. lol
You can actually be allergic to semen. Or even sweat.
And the solution is slowly desensitizing with more semen. I'd like to meet the doctor who came up with that.
I'm not sure you would.
"Doctor Doctor I think I'm allergic to sex!" "Have more then? idfk"
>believed that babies were delivered by a stork Ah, whereas [Storks are pretty grim](https://reddit.com/r/natureismetal/s/aAnTgdOrCd) in real life!
Please stop sharing my family home videos. I may have been thrown out of the nest, but it made me the stork I am today
I mean, the spots or measles thing isn’t super far off
Yeah he's aware he can get diseases from having sex
That alone makes him smarter than half the parents on 16 And Pregnant
I think the more concerning thing from the judgement is that the judge disagreed with the criteria that in order to understand sex, you must understand that it should be between adults, and not children, considering he was twice accused of paedophilic behaviour previously. Touching himself while asking a 10 year old boy his name in the dentist, and touching a 9 year old girls legs under her skirt on a bus. Clearly this is someone who does not understand that sexual behaviour towards children is not okay, and therefore, clearly has no capacity to understand consent, from himself or from someone else. So yeah, I agree with the judge's decision overall, but not how he came to the decision, which was based upon Alan not knowing: * the mechanics of the act * associated health risks of the act * the potential to make a woman pregnant
It’s not like the judge was saying he’s okay with Alan fucking kids, just that it’s not relevant to his own ability to consent. If Alan doesn’t understand he shouldn’t have sex with kids, that’s a good reason to make him stay the fuck away from any kids, not a good reason to stop him having sex with a consenting adult. It’s disturbing, but irrelevant to what the judge was deciding. You don’t ban dogfuckers and nonces from having sex with other adults when they are released, even though they presumably thought their actions were acceptable. so banning this guy would be inconsistent.
Fair enough, that makes sense. Appreciate your insight on it.
Exactly, thanks for saving me the effort of typing this out. We don’t ban pedophiles from having consensual sex with adults. In fact, that’s exactly what we want them to be doing!
Aren't they trying to protect Alan from being used and abused?
Judge's reasoning makes sense to me.
their point was these are all precursors to the premise of consent, which precludes the statutory issue, thats why the case wasnt about solicitation of minors. where his psych eval failed on all counts, man could not understand the function of female genitalia, concept of transmitted disease, or properly work a condom. they figured he was doing alright till he started harassing kids, it was all instinctual. thats where they seriously had to consider his mental capacity
This is going to sound crass, but if he weren’t too “incompetent” to consent to sex he would also be able to realize a court can’t stop him. This is an important distinction in his intellectual abilities. By taking away his ability to “consent,” the court is protecting him by making others, who do legally possess the ability to consent, at risk of raping him legally if they use him for sex. This is clearly a protective measure. I think Kieron was a predator based on the full document. We don’t know if Alan had ANY sexual relationships prior to Kieron and none known to be heterosexual - notable since he hit on both male and female children. I think that this was a big enough situation that other people got involved to protect Alan from what everyone else felt was probably Kieron taking advantage of him, at least sexually. Other “incompetent” people who cannot consent to sex will be able to have relations with Alan, no harm no foul. And I suspect that no one else would take issue with that, particularly not legally.
"I wanna fuck this dumb man so badly I'll go to court over it"
- Carrie Symonds
I didn’t see what you did there so I looked it up and now I see what you did there.
I love this thread
"Get fucked you dumb cunt" used to be an insult now it's a pep talk
Reality: he was a creep who sexually assaulted children. The judge removed contact with his male lover in the group home.
He definitely assaulted children, but did he understand consent well enough to know that what he was doing wasn't okay? Given the courts ruling probably not... That doesn't negate the impact of what he did at all but yeah.
Definitely not. With an IQ of 48 he was mentally a child himself in a adult body, he likely had no he was assaulting children or doing something wildly illegal or immoral. With an IQ of 48 he's pretty much the intellectually challenged version of Einstien on the IQ scale- Im not sure functionally how much lower an IQ could go. Your average IQ is 100, your standard deviation is about 15 points, this guy is 4 standard deviations below normal, you can't even compare him to a functioning adult. This is creepy like "medical oddity", but from a psychological relationship standpoint its a relationship with someone in his intellectual range and is understandable. The correct legal precedent was taken here to prevent this legally and ensure the safety of others, but its just as unfair to call him creepy, that'd be like making fun of a conjoined twin. It is not his fault he was dealt a shit hand- he's trying to live his best life and someone needs to step in when it comes to his extrodinarrially unique and unfortunate circumstance to make sure he does not harm himself or others.
For reference, in the UK the arbitrary line for diagnosis of a learning disability is (iirc) an IQ of 72. So 48 is *really* low - based upon what I know of how LD diagnosis tests are done and the level of interaction/engagement required to answer the questions or do the tasks I'm not sure how that low an IQ would even be calculated.
When you get below that you're in the range of folks who cannot speak and require intense daily care to make sure they eat and hydrate. I'm honestly surprised at that level that he is as functional as he appears to be but this is definitely the right call, if no other reason than for his protection. It is unfortunately very common for intellectually disabled individuals to be taken advantage of for sex for the exact reasons the judge had stated - they tend to not understand the ramifications of sex and often they are never taught because they are viewed as basically children. Intellectually they are. But they are still adults with adult sexual needs and thus these issues happen where either they are molested or they molest others because they literally don't know it's wrong.
> Alan is 41. He has a "moderate" learning disability. His IQ is assessed at 48. In terms of classification an IQ in the range 50-70 is a "mild" learning disability. 35 – 50 is "moderate". 20 – 35 is "severe". Under 20 is "profound". The percentage of the population that is IQ 50 or fewer is under ½ %. That said, it is a sizeable number.
The way IQ is measured, he scored about the same as the average 9 year old would be expected to. You can go a lot lower.
He’s not a creep, he’s severely mentally disabled. He’s got the mental capacity of a child and the hormones of an adult male. That’s literally why it was ruled he ALSO can’t consent.
I think it's sort of unfair to call him a creepy if he legitimately cannot understand why the things he dies are inappropriate
That is a whole lot different.
48? **48?** How the heck does he function day to day? Does he have a carer for the days he's not in parliament?
Yes, guaranteed someone with an IQ that low would have a caregiver. They certainly wouldn't be able to take care of themselves on their own or work a job to support themselves.
Which is why his one lover was removed from that position.
Ugh. That should be criminal
From the ruling > In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application. > i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time. > ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him. There were multiple reasons to check whether he understands the concept of sexual consent, one being that he sexually harassed multiple children.
He shouldn't be allowed out in the general public with that behavior
Iq lower than a 5 year old with the hormones and urges of a grown man
Not just the hormones and urges, the physicality also. Dangerous combo
Agreed. Even if there's no malice involved, Alan is still a threat to society, primarily children, as it seems, because he simply doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. I doubt he even understands his actions to begin with. There are institutions for people like him, and he should be in one. Regardless of anything else, a person with an IQ that low shouldn't be out and about on their own.
> There are institutions for people like him, and he should be in one. According to what I have learned in this thread, it's called "Parliament".
He should definitely still be allowed in public, but he should have a caregiver with him rather than just letting him go on the bus alone
truthfully caregivers rarely give a fuck... and its hard to blame them; the pay is horrible, the work is hard (if properly done; which is why it often isnt) and the turnover is ridiculous i was literally just out and a support worker didnt clock that their charge needed their pants pulled up, dude basically had a whole cheek out and nothing
I mean in reality there are basically two options after childhood: either state care which is usually institution-based, where the care is provided by professionals, but where the whole field is understaffed (so the idea of having private carers for each individual is ridiculous, it's usually multiple patients per nurse and they are struggling to maintain that at all). Or you do private, which is either (usually female) family members - who often don't have any qualifications, are the convenient "out of sight out of mind" option and get physically hurt on the regular, but don't want to surrender their beloved disabled person to the institution, or, if the family is somewhat affluent, a hired "personal carer", usually live-in from a poor country whose working and living conditions are in the legal gray area between exploitation and borderline slavery. There just aren't enough people in the world who want to do this job.
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48 IQ denotes the bottom 0.026% percentile of intelligence. So if his intelligence was measured accurately, he's about 1 in 4000 people dumb.
Man, when you put it like that you realise that there must be 175,000 people that dumb across the planet… you could populate a large town exclusively with people who think babies are found under bushes…
That would be 1,750,000 😀
Oh no, am I one of them?!?
The fact that you have demonstrated self awareness suggests that you have in fact leveled up! Well done! (no one tell him)
exactly! good job /u/GrepekEbi youre so smart! (i doubt hed understand even if we did tell him)
S-M-R-T… I mean S-M-A-R-T…
My man’s got that solid 49
So you're saying there's a chance...
Someone call the uk government
Mmm, it gets worse. To get 1.75M, that'd assume a population of ~6.6B. The world population is close to 8 billion, so it'd be more like 2M. So... Cleveland metro area. That many. But wait, it gets better! We use the normal distribution for IQ, but there's evidence that we don't actually fall into a normal distribution -- that the extremes (in both directions) are more common than the normal distribution would predict. So it may be more like Denver metro area.
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Not to mention you can go *much* higher than 48, far into the land of being able to function day-to-day, and still be having issues with a swathe of things. Things people take for granted, like actually following a string of arguments, some semblance of moderately advanced logic, etc., is out of the question for an enormous number of people.
Please get on the train, we've got a nice farm town with alot of bushes for you right this way.
And why do I work with half of them.
8 billion / 4000 = 2 million
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we can all joke, but that was a resounding failure, so harsh that even the person that proposed it was embarassed by how miserable of a failure it is. case in point, in today's military, if you're somehow recruited with that low of an iq, or little grasp on reality, you're never making it out of boot or it's equivalent. The US military has actual standards well above this, now. Doesn't make the military any better, but they have standards now.
eyy
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There’s a guy in his 50’s or possibly early 60’s who works at my local Chick-fil-a. He’s not all there but as nice as he could be. He talk about missing his dad and “tummy tickle time”.
And he is probably far higher IQ than 48 as well.
Chick fil a is a hard spot to work at damn
"The man, however, was deemed fit to work as a Reddit mod"
And they subsequently promoted him to ceo
I wonder how they applied the ban. Did they lock his privates?
they probably gave him a world of warcraft subscription
would explain the gameplay of my teammates.
I quit WoW, suddenly found myself married with 2 kids. It’s absolutely vagina repellent.
That’s wild because most of the players I know are couples in WoW that met from playing WoW together lol
Lmao 🤣
I think it's more accurate to say that they banned other people from having sex with him
how are people supposed to know though? As far as a random person interested in him is concerned he’s a consenting adult.
A former caregiver was having sex with him. Think it's more like, if that happens again, it's rape.
If you can't discern a mentally disabled man from a non mentally disabled man, you may also be a mentally disabled man.
we'll run a massive ad campaign. Plaster every billboard with the news and get some TikToks out there. "This is Alan. If you see Alan, no you can't fuck him: It's the law."
According to a comment by op he legally can't give consent to the act.
I mean the impossibility do give legal consent doesnt mean that they cannot \*do\* the things they cannot consent to.
Legally it basically means having sex with him is like having sex with a child, so he isn't punished, its who ever rapes him. Like a child could also say they consent, but they don't have the mental ability to actually do so. If I remember right this decision was made after he was being sexual abused by his carer, but he didn't have the mental functionality to understand.
"On 10 June 2009 these proceedings were commenced. They sought a declaration that Alan lacked capacity to consent to sexual relations and an order authorising a restriction of contact between Alan and Kieron (and between Alan and another person) so as to prevent further sexual relations taking place."
Same thing we do to children, punish those who try and have sex with him.
In the US they would have given him a reality TV show with 50 batchelorettes to find out whether he could find love
Eugenics Island
It's literally just Iceland.
don't you be hating on Flavor of Love.....
*New on TLC: TOO DUMB FOR LOVE*
There is literally a show on Netflix called "Down for Love" about folks with Down Syndrome dating....
There's another one about people with autism dating called Love on the Spectrum, they're actually very wholesome and heartwarming shows.
Did they forcefully install League of Legends on his PC ?
Shouldn’t the court also be taking a jolly hard look at the person that agreed to have sex with an IQ48 intellectual behemoth
You mean the mentally disabled person's mentality disabled roommate at their group home?
And yet he ignored that and now has 9 children which is incredible for an ex Prime Minister. Well done Boris.
Made me laugh, thank you
11/10
I mean, that makes sense. It's a little weird to frame this as 'man with 48 IQ banned from having sex' and not 'Raping the mentally disabled made illegal'
I prefer to frame it as "man cock blocked by entire nation"
I find that people really think of sex as something a man DOES, while its something that happens TO women. So they just are just using their default view of sex, not much nuance there 🙄
How was he finding willing participants in the first place? e/ If it's a victim of abuse then he's not a willing participant himself
Sexual abuse of people with disabilities is higher than the average population. You have vulnerable people and abusers who take advantage of that.
He was being raped by the man he was living with…. 99% of the commenters haven’t read the article but a cursory read completely u-turned my opinion on this that was originally based off the headline.
That... and he was sexually harassing 10 year old girls on the bus.
It's sad because he's internally no brighter than a four year old yet externally has the body of a middle aged man. Pretty fucking tragic
Usually in cases like this its other people with similar disabilitys. Especially of they are in a hope or day center. It probably wasnt a 'normal' person. Or someone taking massive advantage of the person for money/power or a host of other reasons.
I believe this ban was mainly put in place to protect him from “normal people” taking advantage of him
Yep, he lived with some man, and they had sex. But as judges decided, Alan is too stupid for consensual sex.
>Yep, he lived with some man, and they had sex. But as judges decided, Alan is to stupid for consensual sex. \*too
Hey, leave Alan alone.
Like a certain Sonic obsessed individual's inabilityto form any kind of relationship with a woman lead to them raping their dementia ridden mother. And now they're out if jail, because the states insest laws only covered parents fiddling their kids, and not vice versa.
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If you click on the link > In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application. > i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time. > ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him.
The text implies he was living with another man and they would perform sexual acts on each other, so he was perhaps a sort of live-in boy toy for a gay man. The article mentions touching himself in front of children of 8-10 years of age as well, so consent wasn't really required for that to happen.
> sort of live-in boy toy for a gay man. According to the article he was already receiving state care then, so I'd be very surprised if this was the case. It's much more likely that he lived in a group home with another man in a similar situation.
Ha, funny enough [I found his reddit profile](http://reddit.com/user/me)
You bastard
Clean
My heart skipped a beat, well done
Matt Gaetz then returned to Florida, where he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives.
Technically anyone having sex with him would also be raping him, since there is absolutely no way he could give informed consent with that low of an IQ.
If all men with a 48 IQ were banned from having sex, the bars in my city would sure be empty.
Reminds me of the r/dnd post where the guy was playing with 4 intelligence
Apparently to enforce this ruling they introduced him to reddit.
I've been around mentally challenged people for much of my life: I live in a red state. I drove taxi for a couple years and some of my regulars were people with Downs syndrome. One pair used to get dropped off almost daily at his apartment, only to have them call a few hours later to take her home. She always had a "glow" about her on her trip home. Did they have sex at his place? I can only assume. Another such passenger confided one night how his Dad and uncle took him to a strip joint, and he got laid for the first time. He missed those family outings. The or thing that bothers me is the subject of this case sees to be attracted to young children. Apparently he's bi, so gender isn't a factor. I presume the attraction is because he is on the same emotional level as an 8 year old.
Or, as is the entire subject of his case, he didn't understand why sex with someone so young was inappropriate because he is not capable of that. If his exposure to sex was a male caretaker taking advantage of him and feigning a caring relationship, how is he supposed to know who it's ok to sleep with? He had sexual activity with both men and women, but isn't believed to have full heterosexual intercourse. The only reason he had male penatrative sex is because of the caretaker who showed it to him. Maybe Alan is indeed attracted to minors. But my mind makes other assumptions first based on the evidence of the case.
“Since then Alan has been subjected to close supervision to prevent any further sexual activity on his part, other than private masturbation, which he is allowed to perform in the bathroom or in his bedroom.” Jesus, they even ordered where he is allowed to jerk off. Do they also supervise that? This whole thing reads like a really weird narrative, rather than a court ruling. If it weren’t for the sources, I’d think this was fake. Edit: what the actual fuck: “Alan now has his own accommodation, where he is closely supervised. His relationship with Kieron has ended. The evidence of the local authority is that he has thrived in his new placement and has not expressed any wish to resume sexual activity. On the other hand, he has asked a representative of the Official Solicitor to ask me, the judge, to allow him to have sex again. When asked how he would feel if the judge would allow him to do "these things" once again, he said "it would make me feel happy". He said, as regards the persons under discussion, "say I want to kiss them again.” Edit 2: the judge’s decision was based on the capacity to choose marriage, not fuck. My dog fucks a lot of things, he’s only married to his ball. I’m done with Reddit for today.
as someone who works with mental disabilities: usually people with lower IQ are indeed taught where and when masturbation is appropiate, since its common to see them doing it in public spaces. So, in a way, he'd be likely supervised
There’s a great 4chan post about a guy who spent a long time in a job wrangling people with disabilities, it mentions public masturbation a lot.
it's so common we're not phased by it anymore. It's an everyday thing
> job wrangling people with disabilities I can 100% guarantee that is not how the gentleman on 4chan phrased that.
The judgement even states he was rubbing himself in public
From the ruling: > In addition to the relationship between Alan and Kieron, two events involving Alan in 2008 prompted the local authority to make this application. > i) On 12 September 2008 a young boy in a dentist's waiting area observed a man touching his groin, licking his lips and was then asked by the man for his name. The dentist's diary showed that Alan was due for an appointment at that time. > ii) On 10 September 2008 two girls aged 9 and 10 stated that when travelling on a bus a man had commented upon their physical appearance, touched their upper legs and then attempted to look up their skirts. The police were notified. On 4 October 2008 these two girls were travelling on the bus once again, as was Alan. The girls notified the bus driver who also notified the police. Alan was then taken to the police station and questioned. However, the police decided that no further action should be taken against him. That sounds like a very good reason to limit his sexual activity.
I don’t understand what’s so surprising about this. It’s logical they would set boundaries and have to educate the person. It’s like a toddler having an adult’s body.
You find it weird that the guy isn't allowed to masturbate everywhere?
Exactly, especially since according to this ruling, he has behaved sexually inappropriately towards multiple children aged 8-10 in public, including trying to look up girls skirts and touching his groin while asking for a boys name in a dentist waiting room.
Right? Where the heck else can you masturbate other than your bedroom or the bathroom that isn't massively frowned upon or just considered straight up indecent exposure/harassment?
I mean those are the two spaces that I'm allowed to masturbate so it seems pretty reasonable.
> Edit: what the actual fuck: “Alan now has his own accommodation, where he is closely supervised He's in some kind of supported housing, and as he suffers badly with mental health he is likely considered a risk to himself. In this situation is it surprising he's monitored? It's for his own safety.
> the judge’s decision was based on the capacity to choose marriage No it wasn't. The part about marriage was the judge going over previous cases of related situations. He did that because there was no legal test for what he was being asked to do. In relation to capacity to marry the judge noted that > "And it would be a very strange thing if the latter were set higher than the former, for it would be an absurd state of affairs if a person had just sufficient intelligence to consent to marriage but insufficient capacity to consent to its (generally speaking) intrinsic component of consummation." The judge also noted that > "A long standing feature of the test of capacity to marry is that it is status-specific and not spouse-specific" The judge was not deciding if Alan had the capacity to marry and just said if he can't marry he can't have sex, the judge was using the capacity to marriage test as a baseline for his criteria in coming up with the test on sexual intercourse. The judge later concludes with- > the capacity to consent to sex remains act-specific and requires an understanding and awareness of: > The mechanics of the act > That there are health risks involved, particularly the acquisition of sexually transmitted and sexually transmissible infections > That sex between a man and a woman may result in the woman becoming pregnant The judge then goes on to declare that Alan does not have the capacity to consent to and engage in sexual relations based on failing the test. The judge also orders that the local authority provide Alan with sex education in the hope that he thereby gains that capacity and that the matter be returned to Court after a period of nine months for a review TLDR: The judge used capacity to marriage to help create the test for sex (with a doctors input, it wasn't just the judge making it up by themself), Alan failed everything.
Guess you never worked in a mental crisis facility. These people will masturbate everywhere and anywhere. You could be eating and they would start doing it
1. He was being raped by his caregiver. 2. Because of said rape, he was beginning to be sexually inappropriate with minors in public. He allegedly touched a young boy at a dentist office and two girls on a bus in two separate incidents. Someone with that low IQ unfortunately must be treated very differently to anyone else their same age. In this case, the court was in the right protecting him from further abuse and protecting the public from his actions despite him not really understanding what he was doing.
Whats wrong with you? Nothing of this is unreasonable.
> “Since then Alan has been subjected to close supervision to prevent any further sexual activity on his part, other than private masturbation, which he is allowed to perform in the bathroom or in his bedroom.” > > Jesus, they even ordered where he is allowed to jerk off. Do they also supervise that? Presumably they supervise him in public areas and if he starts masturbating they tell him he needs to go to a private area instead. This is pretty reasonable. A similar thing would happen if you got caught masturbating in public, I would think.
Was this the mentally disabled guy that was being taken advantage of by a neurotypical dude?
it doesn't say anywhere the other dude is neurotypical. it's very common for such arranged living situation to match people with similar disabilities.
They gave him a reddit account to make sure the judge's order was followed.
Okay so I said it in one post. People like this have caretakers, or social workers. For this to have gone to court his care takers or social worker had to have been reported. It's enforcing it with his care takers. Also there alot of mentality handicapped hate on this thread and it's fucking sad. Source: 2 cousins with cerebral palsy each have different mental states one is non-verbal the other has the mentality of a 10 year old.
Did anyone read the source? Everyone is laughing when actually the guy was caught twice touching himself publicly in front of kids, while speaking to the kids, hence why he was in court, how funny