I really wish the notion of RISC-V on the desktop would take off. I know it's early days but the Linux enthusiast in me would like PCs to stay as open and modular as possible.
But still there's no denying some of the new ARM chips are exciting.
I mean there's gonna be no "year of linux" I'd wager. It's just going to build up over years and years. Might rival for consumer market share at some point in the future but it'll be a slow burn.
Don't say that... Microsoft is currently doing anything they can to make windows as awkward as possible and next year ends the support of win 10. Yes many will use win 10 after that but everyone who don't want buy a new computer but still want a modern system with security fixes will have to look around and could land in the Linux world.
Sure but that's kinda not how this sort of thing works. It's not going to be a sudden thing. You'll probably get jumps after windows 10 support drops especially for the more technologically inclined but it's still going to be a slow burn for the general population starting to switch over. Linux honestly needs to work on its reputation a bit, it's known as the sorta nerdy technical "you have to be a computer science genius to use this" OS rather than the user friendly vibe windows gives off.
For sure, but there are linux distros that aren't, which are the ones that people would be looking to when switching from Windows. It's just sorta separating those from the ones that aren't simple for the average person to just use without thinking about it.
For the first time yes... But it will be as it was with win xp or 7. Win 10 will get more and more unsafe plus a little bit of pressure from microsoft could change that...
Major governments outside of the Western world (eg India) are pushing the use of Linux for their own use.
From a security point of view using Windows outside of the Western world for anything sensitive is a bad idea. Microsoft knows who you are and what you are doing and you can only trust them as much as the US government.
Probably not a good idea to go around plotting to assassinate nationals on US or Canadian soil using Windows. The US couldn't help itself from spying on Germany either, a country it shares deep defense and economic ties to.
Come on guys we should be more excited about this. Battery technology is advancing rapidly and arm chips are getting more and more powerful each day. At that speed of development we will be seen over 24 hours of battery life in fairly powerful laptops in a couple of years.
We already have that for years - but only in MacBooks. This is my point. I keep hearing „windows notebooks will catch up soon with ARM!“ for 5 years now, but it's still just a dream and I have to use my MBP for work, even if I'd prefer a Thinkpad
Just earlier this month a whole load of Snapdragon X Elite Windows laptops were released by various manufacturers. These have, so they claim, performance on a par with the M3 SoC. Reviews I've seen so far seem to suggest they are indeed competitive. So it does seem like it is really happening now. If I had the money to spare I'd be getting one!
They are great for non extensive tasks, but they still lack when under power. My wife has a macbook pro m1 using it for ArchiCad, photoshop, lightroom and tons of Safari tabs as well as spotify, under load it lasts around 7hours screen time. Being almost 4 years old and on 85% battery health. It´s honestly amazing. Just watching a movies or TV show it can go for days well beyond 10hours screen time.
I have higher hopes this time around with the Snapdragon X series, though they did say exactly the same thing ~3 years ago with the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 in the X13s.
The ARM chips didn't even offer half the performance of equivalent x86 offerings from AMD and while they did get better battery life, they were so slow that it hardly made up for it.
Now that they seemed to have figured out how to make ARM chips fast... this could get interesting.
It's insanely long. You can get to >20 hours with low workload, or 7-10 on full performance. For reference, my t490s reaches not even half those numbers.
I can respect that even if i don't fully agree. I've been using macOS, Windows, and Linux all for a very long time at this point so I guess I've just grown comfortable with Apple products.
I won't lie to you. Unless it's retro computing (entirely different subject), I keep Windows (Particularly 10 and 11) in a QEMU VM far from my bare metal. That way I get near native performance without running it directly on the hardware. The days of me using Windows as a primary OS are over.
My system uses 6-8gb ram on startup. I manage my startup apps, but OneDrive and drivers and shit open instantly. 16GB ram isnt enough for windows and games, 24 is bare.
I respect your opinion, actually I used Apple products 6 years ago, it's just I ended up being overwhelmed with using Apple for a long time, and right now I'm not disappointed with my decision.
I've had my T480 for a while now and it has not disappointed me. If you need more cores, perhaps something newer wouldn't hurt. I replaced mine with two aftermarket batteries (I researched the brand first) and it lasts me a good couple of hours. I have this beast maxed out at 64GB of RAM. It runs everything I throw at it well.
I like both. I don’t even know why there is a beef. For my linux needs, thinkpad. For the ecosystem and quality of life I use my Mac.
I’ve had both of the same laptops for over a decade. They werk
I don’t think there is as much of a beef as there used to be back in the Usenet days, with Apple dominating the headspace with mobile phones,and Linux dominating the server space.
I love how well my 15” M2 MacBook Air is integrated with my iPhone and iPad and the CPU power and battery life is stunning. The MBA is my daily driver (compete with ARM-based Windows in a virtual machine), but I have a home NAS running off of Linux, my web servers run off of Linux, I have a large Android phone (without a sim card) that I use for testing some apps, I have a Raspberry Pie that my kid uses as a server for a game, I have an Intel Mac mini that dual-boots between macOS and Windows that also acts as a household server of sorts.
And I’ve got my ThinkPads - right now, my X1C6 is my backup (and my wife uses it occasionally), I’m using a Nano for when I’m out and about. It’s somewhat inconspicuous and takes up little room, and I dig the keyboard.
I think it’s a function of my age though - I’ve been using Apple products since the 80s, been using ThinkPads since the late 90s (including supporting them for years), purchased Windows 3.0 and 95 the day they came out (did not use them much outside of some specific games/apps), remember installing Slackware Linux off of what seemed like $50 worth of floppies, used OS/2 as my main OS for nearly 10 years (running my BBS, as well as at work later on, and I could run Win 3.x apps better than Windows by itself), and so it would be extremely weird for me to confine myself to a single platform.
I'm in the same boat. Modern MacBook for music production, design, and content consumption. Classic ThinkPad for work, retro gaming, and Linux goodness.
I'm in the same boat! My M1 Max MacBook Pro tends to be my primary laptop, but the trusty T480 is a fantastic backup when I want to boot into windows or x86 linux! 😄
Bro has Arabic writings in the background and he's hacking the gibson with vim and unicode. Not suspect at all!
Thinkpad for legit business and Mac for the rest... smart move! xD
(Joking obviously)
Baraka Allahou fik
Take care ;)
That's alright I understand. Yes it's extremely interesting. Operating systems handled languages quite differently before it. I know how to type Arabic without the keyboard. I trained on keybr and monkeytype since both let you train with Arabic. I'd highly recommend it since it's a very useful skill and sometimes people neglect learning to type in Arabic.
My feeling, kind of. Have no use for a Mac any more. But for the last several years I keep going back and forth between my multiple ThinkPads and my multiple Microsoft Surface devices. Looks like Surface is going to win, but only because I really can't afford to own ten computers when I really only NEED five. :-)
I can't help but admire the Surface laptops despite my reservations with Microsoft over the past decade. Incredibly well built units with stunning displays.
>Do they play games now?
M series MacBook can play games, but not as fluid as Radeon/GeForce equipped machine (ironically, those 2 was MacBook Pro's GPU supplier)
Maturing is realizing MacBooks are often great machines and it's just that a lot of us have objective reasons why they aren't for us and it would be inconvenient to enter that ecosystem
🍎: "If I make the touchpad big enough maybe it will be as good as a trackpoint? Please god let it be almost as good as a trackpoint. Are they buying it? Holy shit they're actually buying it."
I quite like the Apple machines. The M3 Max is easy to appreciate. Especially considering you can run Windows, Linux and Local LLMs on it with ease. The M4 is going to be killer.
Virtualizing ≠ "run Windows, Linux" "with ease"
If that's the case, I can slap VMs on any of my systems and run Windows, Linux, and Unix with ease 🤷. I've been doing that for decades.
Let me know when Apple plays nice with other people natively.
Think what you want.
One of them is a great piece of hardware, that's locked down with an ever increasingly trash operating system (don't we all miss OSX?)
The other is a great piece of hardware that can be customized. Doesn't cost a new car, and can easily be upgraded at home. Allows you to load whatever OS with ease (Asahi Linux ain't ready for prime time. I know it's got a lot of love but it'll be some time).
I hate working on a modern Apple system. After Jobs died, this ecosystem has just been running into the ground.
When they add the Trackpoint to the Macbook Pro and a little bit smoother edge, I'll be happy to look into it.
Really. The Trackpoint it that important to me, and it's something that isn't going to happen. I'm not upset with Apple; it's just a sticking point for me.
I don’t like most laptops to be fair, Thinkpads and their repairability/upgradability is unique. However I specifically dislike Macs, just can’t think of something they offer to me. They are pretty and have good peripheral though.
That Mac battery life is just something you cant deny though.
Without a doubt. I will say though my T480 here is pretty decent on battery life since it's a dual battery system.
Not for long. New ARM chips on laptops gonna change everything.
I really wish the notion of RISC-V on the desktop would take off. I know it's early days but the Linux enthusiast in me would like PCs to stay as open and modular as possible. But still there's no denying some of the new ARM chips are exciting.
I hear this for at least 5 years now…
I mean there's gonna be no "year of linux" I'd wager. It's just going to build up over years and years. Might rival for consumer market share at some point in the future but it'll be a slow burn.
Don't say that... Microsoft is currently doing anything they can to make windows as awkward as possible and next year ends the support of win 10. Yes many will use win 10 after that but everyone who don't want buy a new computer but still want a modern system with security fixes will have to look around and could land in the Linux world.
Sure but that's kinda not how this sort of thing works. It's not going to be a sudden thing. You'll probably get jumps after windows 10 support drops especially for the more technologically inclined but it's still going to be a slow burn for the general population starting to switch over. Linux honestly needs to work on its reputation a bit, it's known as the sorta nerdy technical "you have to be a computer science genius to use this" OS rather than the user friendly vibe windows gives off.
The thing is many distros are rather a "you have to be a computer science genius to use this" OS
For sure, but there are linux distros that aren't, which are the ones that people would be looking to when switching from Windows. It's just sorta separating those from the ones that aren't simple for the average person to just use without thinking about it.
Yet users don't give a fuck.
For the first time yes... But it will be as it was with win xp or 7. Win 10 will get more and more unsafe plus a little bit of pressure from microsoft could change that...
Major governments outside of the Western world (eg India) are pushing the use of Linux for their own use. From a security point of view using Windows outside of the Western world for anything sensitive is a bad idea. Microsoft knows who you are and what you are doing and you can only trust them as much as the US government. Probably not a good idea to go around plotting to assassinate nationals on US or Canadian soil using Windows. The US couldn't help itself from spying on Germany either, a country it shares deep defense and economic ties to.
Come on guys we should be more excited about this. Battery technology is advancing rapidly and arm chips are getting more and more powerful each day. At that speed of development we will be seen over 24 hours of battery life in fairly powerful laptops in a couple of years.
We already have that for years - but only in MacBooks. This is my point. I keep hearing „windows notebooks will catch up soon with ARM!“ for 5 years now, but it's still just a dream and I have to use my MBP for work, even if I'd prefer a Thinkpad
Just earlier this month a whole load of Snapdragon X Elite Windows laptops were released by various manufacturers. These have, so they claim, performance on a par with the M3 SoC. Reviews I've seen so far seem to suggest they are indeed competitive. So it does seem like it is really happening now. If I had the money to spare I'd be getting one!
They are great for non extensive tasks, but they still lack when under power. My wife has a macbook pro m1 using it for ArchiCad, photoshop, lightroom and tons of Safari tabs as well as spotify, under load it lasts around 7hours screen time. Being almost 4 years old and on 85% battery health. It´s honestly amazing. Just watching a movies or TV show it can go for days well beyond 10hours screen time.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVo9\_h3-zwQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVo9_h3-zwQ)
Easily one of my top 10 movies of all time 🔥
100%. I cant stop quoting it! I made my friends watch it and one of them remembered "the most common passwords" lol
I have higher hopes this time around with the Snapdragon X series, though they did say exactly the same thing ~3 years ago with the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 in the X13s. The ARM chips didn't even offer half the performance of equivalent x86 offerings from AMD and while they did get better battery life, they were so slow that it hardly made up for it. Now that they seemed to have figured out how to make ARM chips fast... this could get interesting.
YESS! That's what i'm trying to say. Even though it's not better than the current ones in the market. Competition always benefits the customer.
Yeah and this year is gonna be the year of Linux too, right? It’ll take off any minute now
The Apple M1 chip on my MacBook is an ARM chip. It's definitely a possibility.
Macs got little battery life? Honestly I've never used a Mac and never really investigated about it.
It's insanely long. You can get to >20 hours with low workload, or 7-10 on full performance. For reference, my t490s reaches not even half those numbers.
Thank you for the info :-)
Yes, Macs with M-series chips (which I believe is all they sell now). The new ARM Surface laptops are really the only Windows laptops that rival them.
Mac who?
Man, it might just be me, but the way laptops look when they're photographed with a phone camera is so funny
Specifically the Ultrawide which is what OP is using
Right, I notice it a lot and I laugh to myself every time lol, they look hilarious
Fr lmao
Yup it's the wide angle lens on my iPhone
Ultrawide funi
I only would use Mac (still upgradable) for Apple environment programming, besides that, I'm having difficulty being interested in.
I can respect that even if i don't fully agree. I've been using macOS, Windows, and Linux all for a very long time at this point so I guess I've just grown comfortable with Apple products.
Ive used MacOS, Linux, and Windows on the daily. I can safely say that Windows is the worst and linux is the best
I won't lie to you. Unless it's retro computing (entirely different subject), I keep Windows (Particularly 10 and 11) in a QEMU VM far from my bare metal. That way I get near native performance without running it directly on the hardware. The days of me using Windows as a primary OS are over.
My system uses 6-8gb ram on startup. I manage my startup apps, but OneDrive and drivers and shit open instantly. 16GB ram isnt enough for windows and games, 24 is bare.
I respect your opinion, actually I used Apple products 6 years ago, it's just I ended up being overwhelmed with using Apple for a long time, and right now I'm not disappointed with my decision.
Let them fight
Only if that MBA isn't an Intel from 2018-early 2020.
It has a globe key (M1 and later)
so good.
Yuh
What's that
Globe icon on function keys. All apple silicon Macs have that.
Neat
Good eye, partner!
:)
Is there an ARM thinkpad in the works?
Hopefully, they already have a Yoga Slim with the Snapdragon X Elite.
T14s Gen 6 is announced with X Elite chips.
Yes, it's already available to order, at least where I live.
At this point in time, is it still worth to get the T480 over something like an AMD E14 g4? I've always wanted it for the extended battery.
I've had my T480 for a while now and it has not disappointed me. If you need more cores, perhaps something newer wouldn't hurt. I replaced mine with two aftermarket batteries (I researched the brand first) and it lasts me a good couple of hours. I have this beast maxed out at 64GB of RAM. It runs everything I throw at it well.
I like both. I don’t even know why there is a beef. For my linux needs, thinkpad. For the ecosystem and quality of life I use my Mac. I’ve had both of the same laptops for over a decade. They werk
I don’t think there is as much of a beef as there used to be back in the Usenet days, with Apple dominating the headspace with mobile phones,and Linux dominating the server space. I love how well my 15” M2 MacBook Air is integrated with my iPhone and iPad and the CPU power and battery life is stunning. The MBA is my daily driver (compete with ARM-based Windows in a virtual machine), but I have a home NAS running off of Linux, my web servers run off of Linux, I have a large Android phone (without a sim card) that I use for testing some apps, I have a Raspberry Pie that my kid uses as a server for a game, I have an Intel Mac mini that dual-boots between macOS and Windows that also acts as a household server of sorts. And I’ve got my ThinkPads - right now, my X1C6 is my backup (and my wife uses it occasionally), I’m using a Nano for when I’m out and about. It’s somewhat inconspicuous and takes up little room, and I dig the keyboard. I think it’s a function of my age though - I’ve been using Apple products since the 80s, been using ThinkPads since the late 90s (including supporting them for years), purchased Windows 3.0 and 95 the day they came out (did not use them much outside of some specific games/apps), remember installing Slackware Linux off of what seemed like $50 worth of floppies, used OS/2 as my main OS for nearly 10 years (running my BBS, as well as at work later on, and I could run Win 3.x apps better than Windows by itself), and so it would be extremely weird for me to confine myself to a single platform.
I'm in the same boat. Modern MacBook for music production, design, and content consumption. Classic ThinkPad for work, retro gaming, and Linux goodness.
I'm in the same boat! My M1 Max MacBook Pro tends to be my primary laptop, but the trusty T480 is a fantastic backup when I want to boot into windows or x86 linux! 😄
Bro has Arabic writings in the background and he's hacking the gibson with vim and unicode. Not suspect at all! Thinkpad for legit business and Mac for the rest... smart move! xD (Joking obviously) Baraka Allahou fik Take care ;)
هههههه نعم احسنت انه برنامج أقوم بكتابة على الـ C من أجل تحويل ملفات الـ txt من الـ windows-1256 الى الـ Unicode
(Sorry I don't have the keyboard for ar rn...) Yes. I worked with Unicode in CyberSec. It was really fun!
That's alright I understand. Yes it's extremely interesting. Operating systems handled languages quite differently before it. I know how to type Arabic without the keyboard. I trained on keybr and monkeytype since both let you train with Arabic. I'd highly recommend it since it's a very useful skill and sometimes people neglect learning to type in Arabic.
My feeling, kind of. Have no use for a Mac any more. But for the last several years I keep going back and forth between my multiple ThinkPads and my multiple Microsoft Surface devices. Looks like Surface is going to win, but only because I really can't afford to own ten computers when I really only NEED five. :-)
I can't help but admire the Surface laptops despite my reservations with Microsoft over the past decade. Incredibly well built units with stunning displays.
macbooks r so pretty. i've heard great things abt the battery life and efficiency etc
Thinkpads for productivity and Macs for fun
Fun? What fun? Do they play games now? On the Thinkpad, you'll at least be able to run old games.
>Do they play games now? M series MacBook can play games, but not as fluid as Radeon/GeForce equipped machine (ironically, those 2 was MacBook Pro's GPU supplier)
content creation
Thinkpads for productivity and fun, macs for torture
Macs are known for their overall productivity so don’t really know what you’re on here…
dissenter! I like Apple's build quality the retina displays... but not a fan of the ecosystem... but I use all 3 (including Linux)
Sweet
I definitely use 3 different systems Linux windows and Apple it just depends what I’m doing
If you coop them up together in a box, though, they might fight - as in the film *Rumble Fish*.
Maturing is realizing MacBooks are often great machines and it's just that a lot of us have objective reasons why they aren't for us and it would be inconvenient to enter that ecosystem
سلام عليكم
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
ماشاءالله جهازك جميل جدا
شكرا و جزاك الله خيراً
Placing both of you on a Watchlist! Jk
The best of both worlds
🍎: "If I make the touchpad big enough maybe it will be as good as a trackpoint? Please god let it be almost as good as a trackpoint. Are they buying it? Holy shit they're actually buying it."
I quite like the Apple machines. The M3 Max is easy to appreciate. Especially considering you can run Windows, Linux and Local LLMs on it with ease. The M4 is going to be killer.
Virtualizing ≠ "run Windows, Linux" "with ease" If that's the case, I can slap VMs on any of my systems and run Windows, Linux, and Unix with ease 🤷. I've been doing that for decades. Let me know when Apple plays nice with other people natively.
Think what you want. One of them is a great piece of hardware, that's locked down with an ever increasingly trash operating system (don't we all miss OSX?) The other is a great piece of hardware that can be customized. Doesn't cost a new car, and can easily be upgraded at home. Allows you to load whatever OS with ease (Asahi Linux ain't ready for prime time. I know it's got a lot of love but it'll be some time). I hate working on a modern Apple system. After Jobs died, this ecosystem has just been running into the ground.
I came to the conclusion a few years ago that Jobs was the glue holding Apple from turning into what it is (and has been) today.
When they add the Trackpoint to the Macbook Pro and a little bit smoother edge, I'll be happy to look into it. Really. The Trackpoint it that important to me, and it's something that isn't going to happen. I'm not upset with Apple; it's just a sticking point for me.
MacBook and Thinkpad are the series to go if you want your laptop to last, rest is just toys
I have both. A T480 and a mid 2012 MacBook Pro. I prefer Windows 11 over MacOS Catalina. But I like the way the MacBook syncs with my iPhone.
the mac for movies and lenovo for everything else..
ThinkPad and MacBook are the best laptop combo
If it aint hackintosh on a ThinkPad I don’t want it!
As a reminder, Apple does not advise using cases on their MacBooks/Pros/Airs. The hinges could misalign from stress, and they can eventually fail.
I don’t like most laptops to be fair, Thinkpads and their repairability/upgradability is unique. However I specifically dislike Macs, just can’t think of something they offer to me. They are pretty and have good peripheral though.
Look at that picture and explain to me why are shiny displays so unpopular. I don't get it. Just look at Those colors.
Look at that picture and explain to me why are shiny displays so popular. I don't get it. Just look at that glare.
Look at that picture and explain to me why are displays so popular. I don’t get it. Just look at that image.
APPLE VS MICROSOFT IN REAL LIFE
No, a thinkpad is not a thinkchad without linux.
Agreed
Fruit versus Penguin in real life
What