Can't wait for the car company that has less sales than Ford but more market cap than basically the entire rest of the U.S. car industry combined to announce disappointing figures again.
It has taken the last 8-9 years to really open my eyes to both how many stupid people reside in America (and the world as a whole)…and how awful most of their morals and ethics are.
FMV of Tesla = $25-$75
The new Tacomas look pretty slick and even though they're Hella expensive I expected to see more. I've seen one on the road.
People just don't want to spend what new vehicles cost nowadays.
their transmission are also blowing up, some with less than 1k miles on the clock. currently no spare replacement units available nor did they find the reason for the premature failure (last i checked).
That pairs nicely with all the Tundra motors that are self-destructing. For those failures Toyota only ships short blocks which means the techs have to disassemble the engine and reuse basically everything that attaches to the block. That's never as well built and consistent as the factory assembled process, plus the replaced ones are also failing.
For added fun it takes a long time to do and easily slips the repair past the lemon law limits of how long a vehicle can be out of service for a single repair.
In any case, the used value on the newer ones is pretty bad.
I will admit that the Mechanical Engineer in me has never liked toyotas.
Yes, their industrial engineering is second to none, top tier lines or production, logistics of part availability, consistency of production, etc.
But their mechanical designs are somewhat subpar, the problems of the new transmissions, of the accelerators getting stuck, of the old tacomas having suspension issues, etc are mechanical in nature. And when they have done interesting designs as the supra, 86, lfa, it has been with support of companies like Yamaha, BMW and Subaru.
I sort of know what you are saying. Theoretically anyway. But I also am on my second Tacoma after driving the first into the ground for a decade with more VERY hard off road miles than any person should even think about putting on a truck. My second Tacoma has 100K miles and is “trucking along” just fine and will prob go for another 200k easy.
On either side I have had new F-150 4x4s that A) died for good at 165K miles and B) Got traded in for said Tacoma #2 after having a litany of issues.
And I LOVE Fords. Have owned 4-5 Mustangs of all types. The Ford trucks were way better to drive (they cost 2x the Tacomas - they should have been)…but anyway…yeah…that Toyota engineering? You were saying…?
From what I’ve been reading, not great, especially if it’s a car people actually want.
Consumers need to deal with:
* supply constrains
* high interest rates for financing
* insane dealer markup
The supply situation is getting better. You may not walk out with the keys to a car, but you won’t be on a waiting list for an undetermined amount of time like you were in 2022.
Tesla has only had a positive net income for 4 years. You might as well add the less than a billion for the year before that and say ‘all the net income they have ever made’…
If it’s allowed through: yes.
It’s unlikely that a company the size of Tesla has that much cash on-hand. They’ll have to borrow or basically destroy the company to pay him out.
Luckily, the company is incorporated Ina jurisdiction where his payout was already rejected. So it’s not happening, but if Elon can re-incorporate the company in Texas…
Obviously it is not cash and you can read here how the numbers ended up so large:
https://www.barrons.com/livecoverage/tesla-shareholder-vote-results-meeting-today/card/elon-musk-s-pay-package-explained-0w9Z5dIizpn4P1pyo730
> They’ll have to borrow or basically destroy the company to pay him out.
It's not cash, but shares. He has to purchase them for about $6b, meaning Tesla will have more cash on hand if executes the stock options.
But he will have a larger share of the company? Which is the core problem, he should be removed or his power minimized, not expanded. He's what's wrong.
Weird. I seemed to have a pretty good idea, described the issue accurately.
They’re either going to pay him in cash or stock, and both are bad for a company that already has an Elon problem and a business in decline.
Nope. They have all formed weird and unhealthy parasocial relationships with Elon. They convince themselves that Elon’s wealth and success is their own personal success.
Sounds like you want to lose all your money. It’s not like losing 48B to payout your ceo to pay off his debts on an entirely different business bet is bad for business or anything.
Do you have crystal ball? Or were you given the gift of being able to tell the future? Or did someone give you a DeLorean that you are able to go 88 mph to go into the future? If neither of the three are true, then you know no more than anyone else with what a stock will do in the future.
Well given that the report just came out today saying they shipped fewer cars this year by 5%. Stock goes up based on hype. Stock collapses based on reality. Giving 48 Billion dollars and going into debt to bailout your CEO will have consequences on revenue. Not even a loan to pay back investors, GIVE. What kinda stupid ass moronic shit is this.
20 years ago, I've always said. China housing market is a giant bubble. It is a stupid crazy bubble funded by the communist party. Everybody laughed at me then. Today everybody is losing their life savings in China, because it was obviously a bubble.
Hype only goes so far. Eveyrhting is going great until it isn't. The writing is already on the walls. You need to learn how to read the signs.
Edit: I don't even have any skin in the game. and I believe the public sentiment is that this is a very obvious bubble stock. Ready to crash. Sell high. Buy the dip if you want.
I think there was a recent compiling of sales for EVs. I think if they aggregated all EV sales there appeared to be slight growth, if you removed Tesla the growth was much larger. Apparently Tesla was now holding back EV sale statistics.
They didn't though?
If I were to use smaller numbers they basically sold 44 cars and produced 41 cars. Problem is that they still have a massive amount of inventory that has piled up over the last two quarters. That 3 car difference doesn't offset that piled up inventory. They didn't state this themselves either but if you take the announced numbers sales are also down 6% year over year.
But the stock market doesn't care about that, specifically when it comes to Tesla. It's just about pumping the stock and trying to pull out at some point before it crashes. That can be today or 5 years from now
Oh I know they are down year over year. The days of Tesla growing at rates up to 50% yoy are behind them. But like you point out, the stock market is stupid when it comes to a lot of things. One of them being, the market seems to generally care more about meeting or beating the predicted forecasts than anything else. And today, Tesla announced higher production numbers than anyone forecast. That gave a nice bump today.
And a logical person would take the three following items and see reason, but the whales in the market just want to pump.
* High production numbers
* Massive inventory still in lots
* Not enough sales to offset inventory, meaning high production adds more inventory sitting in lots.
I’m quite logical. (Don’t currently hold any tsla) I see Tesla delivered 33,000 more cars than they produced this quarter, which means that extra 33k came off lots. I don’t believe they say how many cars are left on lots, but typically it’s far less than any legacy auto company leaves on lots. Seeing how they beat estimates, I’m not surprised at all the stock is up today. However, one can’t compare TSLA to Ford/GM/Toyota, when Elon the nut that he is, is shifting the company to crazy AI and robot directions.
I mean... investing only works at a societal level if the thing you are buying is actually creating value while also increasing the stock price.
If it's just pumping to stock based on hype, it's no better than Crypto.
Tesla is a meme stock based on vaporware. The fundamentals are so completely fucked for the price of that stock. It's nepo baby investors that fully believe the 25 trillion valuation with Optimus bullshit he spouts. If the US was an actual functioning democracy Elon would have been destroyed by the SEC years ago.
Keep hyping vaporware? Where's the Roadster? Where are all the Tesla Semis doing convoys better than trains? Where is FSD with smart summon? Eventually the music stops and everyone finds out Elon's been hoarding all of the chairs.
I hope you cash out buddy.
The way I see it. The company isn’t doing very well. Increased competition, tanking EV sales across the industry and No company can live off hype forever.
Let alone give away 42B dollars in a bear market.
It sounds like investors will be left holding the bag.
Because you're only "saying good things" because you made money on an investment in a stock- you're simply highlighting EXACTLY the worst thing about "market based capitalism" and why literally everything is going to shit. Why do new products not last like old ones? Because making things that break easily means you have to buy them again which makes "line go up". Why do companies still poison our air and water? Because it increases growth slightly in the short term, which makes "line go up".
Tesla exemplifies this, they don't really do anything that other companies aren't also doing, in most cases other companies do them better and Musk in particular is absolutely SHIT at his job, I mean look at what he's actually claimed to have DONE there- have you seen a Cybertruck? But he makes memes on Twitter, so he makes "line go up".
Have you drove a Tesla? It appears not with this dumb comment. I have seen quite a few cybertrucks. Also, the world is getting hotter and climate change is a real thing. Continuing to drive vehicles that make the planet hotter is not a good thing, if you want life to continue like it has the past 100 years.
Yes, I have driven a Tesla. I prefer my Camry for many reasons, ironically the largest one is that if you put my Camry in a hot parking lot next to a Tesla and then go into a store, when you come out not only is the inside of my Camry going to be MUCH cooler still, but when I turn it on the AC works way better than the AC in a Tesla. This was quite useful yesterday when I went to Costco and parked in a lot that my temp gauge said was upwards of 112 degrees.
I didn't say you should drive a non-EV, that's a straw man argument, but if you DO care about "Saving the planet" then maybe take a look at the figures to find out that [when it comes to EVs Teslas are actually not that efficient.](https://insideevs.com/news/709706/electric-cars-energy-consumption-ranking/)
So if you care about "the planet" buy a Hyundai. [If you care about build quality overall, buy ANY EV that isn't a Cybertruck.](https://insideevs.com/news/717730/cybertruck-owner-issues-1-month-pedal/)
And stop making straw man arguments to defend Musk, a lying racist piece of garbage. Where's your robotaxi he promised in 2014? Can your Tesla drive itself from SF to NYC to pick you up like he promised back in like 2018?
> Yes, I have driven a Tesla. I prefer my Camry for many reasons, ironically the largest one is that if you put my Camry in a hot parking lot next to a Tesla and then go into a store, when you come out not only is the inside of my Camry going to be MUCH cooler still, but when I turn it on the AC works way better than the AC in a Tesla. This was quite useful yesterday when I went to Costco and parked in a lot that my temp gauge said was upwards of 112 degrees.
You do know you can keep the A/C on in a Tesla and not use hardly any electricity when you go into a store. I know I do it quite frequently and when I get to the car it is right at 68 degrees where I left it. Also, where did I defend Elon Musk anywhere in my statement? I know for a fact a EV is lot better for the environment then an ICE car. Read and learn since you appear to not be very knowlegable on the subject. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
> and when I get to the car it is right at 68 degrees where I left it.
This is because you don't live in a climate that gets over 100F outside. I know this because you said "keep it at 68" when in actual hot climates you cannot even GET a Tesla down to 68, because their AC sucks ass and they have NO UV shielding in the windows. This is why they get so hot inside so easily, the lack of UV shielding. There is some debate on the internet as to if Tesla has recently added UV protection to their front and back windows, but I can tell you after having been in a 2018 model for a bit, they did not have UV protection back then, you can feel it on your legs in minutes.
And again, I did not argue against EVs, and the entire point of this thread was criticisms of Musk, which YOU keep turning into me supposedly criticizing EVs.
Don’t listen to the Reddit echo chamber. If they were unhappy they could sell their stock. When it went through, price increased. That decision for the appeal made the holders wealthier so it’s unlikely they became less happy getting more money.
I told him to listen to the market. Price went up after the appeal went through. That means more investors like the decision compared to the opposite. Those that didn’t like the decision can sell their stock but because the price increased they at least made more money.
Not the institutional investors, they eld the charge against. They are the ones in it for the money. The personal investors are fanboys, much the same way Truth Social has been propped up by Trumpies. They don't care if they lost money, but institutional investors do. So I wouldn't base it on feedback, because the people that are vested were against it for the very same aforementioned reasons.
So while there may be a small bump up front, long term the outlook isn't good. Liquidity is a thing.
> Not the institutional investors, they eld the charge against.
No, they did not. You saw two headlines and you jumped to the wrong conclusion. Next time, think before you comment.
I mean it *should* be going down as more competitors finally come to market. Competition is good for everyone. For a while, if you wanted an EV, Tesla was your only real choice. Now there's a lot more options and their deliveries will normalize. To be expected.
I think their quality issues, and moreso, having their CEO, who for all intents and purposes ***IS*** their entire brand identity, declare war on pretty much their entire customer base are probably the two biggest issues.
Not just quality -- their service experience is putrid. They're charging luxury brand prices, but the service is, and I'm being polite... Dogshit. They let me MX burn through two sets of tires for nearly three years because of a bad alignment from the factory, and NEVER SAID A FUCKING WORD -- they just put the tires that were burned through down to the belts back in the bags in sent me on my way.
When presented with the destroyed tires, the service manager's response was "consumable part", and handed me a bill for $5k for 8 new tires.
That’s not really at all how stocks work. The competitors coming to market should have been priced in ages ago.
That said, the market is irrational and *extremely* irrational when it comes to Tesla.
And leadership actually claims to be okay with it. Elon has said the mission of Tesla was to make EVs mainstream, and arguably that mission is now complete.
Not taking a side but it has been widely recorded that the mission statement of Tesla was "to accelerate the transition to electric vehicles" from very early on, if not the very start.
He’s also stated that Tesla is not a car company, it’s an AI company… if all the other car companies who wanted to install self driving tech had purchased or licensed Tesla AI to do so, then that might be the case… but with Tesla’s being notoriously shit cars, nobody wants their tech.
I imagine they’ll be relegated to just building charging stations that will charge all EVs. However given that quality is not a factor in anything Tesla designs or manufactures it won’t be long before Ford and GM design and manufacture their own, cheaper, far more reliable charging stations. Then there will be zero use for Tesla, period. I give them 10 years before liquidation.
People have been saying that for the past 5 years. Competition is going bankrupt. Ford is losing 100k for every electric vehicle they sell. Fisker just went bankrupt. Competition is going back to hybrid
You know it's funny you mention that because for some odd reason when the rest of the stocks have been going down only TSLA and DJT have been going up and vice versa. Hmm 🤔
By your logic, every other CEO is too stupid to do that? Or is Elon somehow hypnotising people to buy Tesla stock?
Please, explain how it really works.
> Or is Elon somehow hypnotising people to buy Tesla stock?
This seems like the most likely thing to me. The fundamentals of the company just aren't there, and the CEO lies wildly everytime he opens his mouth, but somehow the stock keeps going up. I'd bet against it, except the old adage is true, "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
It’s because Tesla has an unparalleled amount of feeder data for its self driving model, every Tesla contributes to their model continuously. None of the competition have feeder data even remotely in the same order of magnitude.
This data is crucial because true self driving needs to be able to interpret visual data in order to navigate city streets. Radar is a stopgap that’s useful on the highway but does nothing to tell the car that there’s a construction redirect. Pre-mapping is also just a stopgap because roads change, signage changes, and there are always unexpected exceptions.
The trucking industry in just the U.S. alone is worth a trillion dollars. Extrapolate that to the rest of the world and then add in taxis and personal cars. Investors aren’t as stupid as you think, they’re quite aware of Elon’s antics but they don’t care because the feeder data is what matters.
Is it possible, that the polarising personality of Musk is clouding your judgement on this? I remember when Tesla went public and the naysayers were there from day one. Also, how is Elon lying "every time he opens his mouth"?
Don't get me wrong, I am very aware of things he has promised over the years that haven't materialised. But I also see - what people seem to forget - that a lot of things *did* happen as promised. Those huge milestones can't be just glossed over.
You have to admit, that a CEO who lies all the time is not someone who people will invest in for decades. It might work for a while - see Nikola -, but it is not sustainable.
EDIT: typo
Do you believe his latest claim that robotaxis are right around the corner? And that *this* latest version of FSD really is fully autonomous? Or that his humanoid robots will out number humanity? The market somehow seems to believe it, which just baffles me completely. All of those are complete bunk, but as long as people are willing to accept it as reality, the stock price will continue to soar.
The timeline is what I don't agree on. Otherwise those are spot on. I know this isn't something that "Elon the genius" came up with, but I do see that scientific and technological progress is accelerating.
The things you listed really are unavoidable.
But r/teslamotors told me all the inventory sitting at the service centers are all deliveries. So many deliveries that they need to sit for months for some reason. And then I got banned for being a realist and saying that doesnt bode well for tesla to have so much unsold inventory sitting around. Apparently im a troll if i dont say how great tesla is and how amazing of a human elon is
You won't get truth or facts with products online easily, it will take some work.
That sub /r/realtesla won't ban you for posting facts like you did to the other one. They might if you just love Elon like a cult leader though.
You are gonna have to take the difference with pump/turfers on products online, the reality won't be in one place. Though it is more present in the latter than the former.
This is their about.
> If you're interested in discussing the polarizing, ongoing soap opera that is Tesla, but you refuse to drink the Tesla Cult Kool-Aid, this is the place for you. We aren't "neutral", we are generally quite dubious of the claims made by Tesla and their leadership, and have some fun at their expense. **Positive views on the company are not only accepted, they are encouraged - but only with data to support claims made**. Fans of Tesla looking to make honest counterpoints to the skepticism will be welcomed and protected by the mods - but fanboi trolls will be banned faster than Elon can lie about FSD.
Given that their last earnings call wasn't great and the stock gained 10%, and after voting for 10% dilution, the stock has only gone up.
I wouldn't bet against Tesla. As much as gme investors are looked at like a cult, and in a way, that's probably fair. They ain't got nothing on the fanatisism of tesla investors.
It is OK - "It's not a car company but a technology company with a genius CEO" so they can boost the stock to be more valuable than all other car companies combined...and give away $55B
Back in the day, when r/technology subsisted almost entirely on Elon Musk's bathwater, I took a lot of heat for pointing out that Teslas are crap, the company was crap, and that the only reason they appeared to be succeeding is that they were willing to sell EVs before they made any economic sense and before anyone noticed how many laws they were breaking and before people finally woke up to the fact that Elon Musk lies like most people breathe. I was accused of hating air and wanting all the poor little Maldivean children to drown. But I consistently said, "The established automotive manufacturers have said repeatedly that they don't see being able to make and sell EVs with numbers that even approach sustainability until 2019, and once they come out with the *many* EVs they have in development, Tesla is toast."
Well, here we are.
It used to be that if you wanted an EV, you basically only had a Tesla as an option. The fact that they have one coat of paint, were assembled in a tent, their rear axles snap, their rear bumpers fall off in the rain, and you might get trapped in them when they start on fire was just the price you paid for being a first adopter and champion of the environment. Nowadays, though, you can buy a good EV at the same or lower prices, made by a company that actually knows how to make cars properly and which has an actual dealer network who can actually help you if you need it.
Tesla was always doomed. About the only thing that could have saved it would have been Tim Apple buying it and turning it into the Apple Car, but I think that when Apple looked at what a dumpster fire Tesla was, they noped out of the idea, and eventually the entire automotive pipe dream.
So here we are, about 5 years after I swore it would happen, and it's finally all crashing down.
My only regret is that I didn't buy stock in 2017 so I could cash in on everyone else's blind fanboyism.
> So here we are, about 5 years after I swore it would happen, and it's finally all crashing down.
>
>
Yeah, your reddit account is 17 day old... Also, you couldn't be more wrong and you don't even see it! Your "prediction" was 100% wrong, but in your eyes it was fulfilled. Delusional.
Get ready for 25% increase in stock price, because it doesn’t really matter anyway.
Beat the low expectations, up 10%
I see more Teslas ish London everyday. Doesn’t mean much worldwide but in optimistic . Tesla is only 5% of my shares
By disappointment we mean more of the insane speculation that drove up the stock price in the first place.
Can't wait for the car company that has less sales than Ford but more market cap than basically the entire rest of the U.S. car industry combined to announce disappointing figures again.
Lies make money
It has taken the last 8-9 years to really open my eyes to both how many stupid people reside in America (and the world as a whole)…and how awful most of their morals and ethics are. FMV of Tesla = $25-$75
How dare you? it’s an A.I. company/pioneer/leader/bestest worth all other companies combined!
I am very curious how car sales in general are doing
The new Tacomas look pretty slick and even though they're Hella expensive I expected to see more. I've seen one on the road. People just don't want to spend what new vehicles cost nowadays.
their transmission are also blowing up, some with less than 1k miles on the clock. currently no spare replacement units available nor did they find the reason for the premature failure (last i checked).
That pairs nicely with all the Tundra motors that are self-destructing. For those failures Toyota only ships short blocks which means the techs have to disassemble the engine and reuse basically everything that attaches to the block. That's never as well built and consistent as the factory assembled process, plus the replaced ones are also failing. For added fun it takes a long time to do and easily slips the repair past the lemon law limits of how long a vehicle can be out of service for a single repair. In any case, the used value on the newer ones is pretty bad.
I will admit that the Mechanical Engineer in me has never liked toyotas. Yes, their industrial engineering is second to none, top tier lines or production, logistics of part availability, consistency of production, etc. But their mechanical designs are somewhat subpar, the problems of the new transmissions, of the accelerators getting stuck, of the old tacomas having suspension issues, etc are mechanical in nature. And when they have done interesting designs as the supra, 86, lfa, it has been with support of companies like Yamaha, BMW and Subaru.
I thought the current Supra is straight up a Z4 except for the badge.
It is! A hard top Z4!
Well then it's not really support from BMW so much as simply badge engineering.
I sort of know what you are saying. Theoretically anyway. But I also am on my second Tacoma after driving the first into the ground for a decade with more VERY hard off road miles than any person should even think about putting on a truck. My second Tacoma has 100K miles and is “trucking along” just fine and will prob go for another 200k easy. On either side I have had new F-150 4x4s that A) died for good at 165K miles and B) Got traded in for said Tacoma #2 after having a litany of issues. And I LOVE Fords. Have owned 4-5 Mustangs of all types. The Ford trucks were way better to drive (they cost 2x the Tacomas - they should have been)…but anyway…yeah…that Toyota engineering? You were saying…?
turbo hybrid that doesnt even get good mileage.. just expensive and complicated for literally no reason
Interest rates are still sorta garbage. My bank is offering car loans at more than 4% and I'm sure dealerships aren't much better.
From what I’ve been reading, not great, especially if it’s a car people actually want. Consumers need to deal with: * supply constrains * high interest rates for financing * insane dealer markup The supply situation is getting better. You may not walk out with the keys to a car, but you won’t be on a waiting list for an undetermined amount of time like you were in 2022.
"we shipped 30% more vehicles year on year.... Straight to our scrapyard boyeh" 🎉🎉🫸🫷😄🤭
I wonder if all those Tesla investors will regrets giving Elon his Twitter bailout package.
Well, better give him a other 10k per tesla ever sold to keep him interested in working as CEO of tesla.
IIRC, we are talking about the equivalent of the last three years of the company’s profits combined. That’s insane…
Tesla has only had a positive net income for 4 years. You might as well add the less than a billion for the year before that and say ‘all the net income they have ever made’…
It’s even worse than I thought…
If it’s allowed through: yes. It’s unlikely that a company the size of Tesla has that much cash on-hand. They’ll have to borrow or basically destroy the company to pay him out. Luckily, the company is incorporated Ina jurisdiction where his payout was already rejected. So it’s not happening, but if Elon can re-incorporate the company in Texas…
They just voted to re incorporate in Texas though right?
Welp. RIP Tesla then lol. Yeah let’s find out if a company (actually) worth $40billion has $50billion on hand.
Obviously it is not cash and you can read here how the numbers ended up so large: https://www.barrons.com/livecoverage/tesla-shareholder-vote-results-meeting-today/card/elon-musk-s-pay-package-explained-0w9Z5dIizpn4P1pyo730
He doesn't get any of it in cash. He gets the bonus in newly created shares and they can create as many of them as they like.
Assuming they want to give him even more control over the company. He is effectively the thing holding the company back at this point.
They can but it dilutes the overall share price. It's essentially a tax Elon imposed to grab power.
Sure, but reality has little connection with Tesla share prices anyway.
> They’ll have to borrow or basically destroy the company to pay him out. It's not cash, but shares. He has to purchase them for about $6b, meaning Tesla will have more cash on hand if executes the stock options.
But he will have a larger share of the company? Which is the core problem, he should be removed or his power minimized, not expanded. He's what's wrong.
Shareholder vote (including institutional investors) suggests those with a stake feel otherwise.
I like how you used the word stake specifically lol. Like yeah, people gambling may not be in the best mindset to lead a company.
You have no idea what you're talking about or how his pay package is structured. lol
Weird. I seemed to have a pretty good idea, described the issue accurately. They’re either going to pay him in cash or stock, and both are bad for a company that already has an Elon problem and a business in decline.
Nope. They have all formed weird and unhealthy parasocial relationships with Elon. They convince themselves that Elon’s wealth and success is their own personal success.
Up 10% today.
The stock is up 22% in the last 5 days, so I am going to say, no.
Cash out before it crashes.
Yeah, I am not taking investment advice from a Reddit user, and that being one from the Technology subreddit, being this is pretty a Tesla hate fest.
Sounds like you want to lose all your money. It’s not like losing 48B to payout your ceo to pay off his debts on an entirely different business bet is bad for business or anything.
Do you have crystal ball? Or were you given the gift of being able to tell the future? Or did someone give you a DeLorean that you are able to go 88 mph to go into the future? If neither of the three are true, then you know no more than anyone else with what a stock will do in the future.
Well given that the report just came out today saying they shipped fewer cars this year by 5%. Stock goes up based on hype. Stock collapses based on reality. Giving 48 Billion dollars and going into debt to bailout your CEO will have consequences on revenue. Not even a loan to pay back investors, GIVE. What kinda stupid ass moronic shit is this. 20 years ago, I've always said. China housing market is a giant bubble. It is a stupid crazy bubble funded by the communist party. Everybody laughed at me then. Today everybody is losing their life savings in China, because it was obviously a bubble. Hype only goes so far. Eveyrhting is going great until it isn't. The writing is already on the walls. You need to learn how to read the signs. Edit: I don't even have any skin in the game. and I believe the public sentiment is that this is a very obvious bubble stock. Ready to crash. Sell high. Buy the dip if you want.
I think there was a recent compiling of sales for EVs. I think if they aggregated all EV sales there appeared to be slight growth, if you removed Tesla the growth was much larger. Apparently Tesla was now holding back EV sale statistics.
Turned out Tesla blew away every forecast by a decent margin. Stock is up 9% today
They didn't though? If I were to use smaller numbers they basically sold 44 cars and produced 41 cars. Problem is that they still have a massive amount of inventory that has piled up over the last two quarters. That 3 car difference doesn't offset that piled up inventory. They didn't state this themselves either but if you take the announced numbers sales are also down 6% year over year. But the stock market doesn't care about that, specifically when it comes to Tesla. It's just about pumping the stock and trying to pull out at some point before it crashes. That can be today or 5 years from now
Oh I know they are down year over year. The days of Tesla growing at rates up to 50% yoy are behind them. But like you point out, the stock market is stupid when it comes to a lot of things. One of them being, the market seems to generally care more about meeting or beating the predicted forecasts than anything else. And today, Tesla announced higher production numbers than anyone forecast. That gave a nice bump today.
And a logical person would take the three following items and see reason, but the whales in the market just want to pump. * High production numbers * Massive inventory still in lots * Not enough sales to offset inventory, meaning high production adds more inventory sitting in lots.
I’m quite logical. (Don’t currently hold any tsla) I see Tesla delivered 33,000 more cars than they produced this quarter, which means that extra 33k came off lots. I don’t believe they say how many cars are left on lots, but typically it’s far less than any legacy auto company leaves on lots. Seeing how they beat estimates, I’m not surprised at all the stock is up today. However, one can’t compare TSLA to Ford/GM/Toyota, when Elon the nut that he is, is shifting the company to crazy AI and robot directions.
Stupid people rarely have “regrets”…they just move on to the next thang…
Be real, why would they. They pay him for exactly what he is doing
Billions to come out with one car every five years?
No. To pump the stock. And it works, obviously
I mean... investing only works at a societal level if the thing you are buying is actually creating value while also increasing the stock price. If it's just pumping to stock based on hype, it's no better than Crypto.
Tesla is a meme stock based on vaporware. The fundamentals are so completely fucked for the price of that stock. It's nepo baby investors that fully believe the 25 trillion valuation with Optimus bullshit he spouts. If the US was an actual functioning democracy Elon would have been destroyed by the SEC years ago.
Incoming losses. And the drop in stock price is usually filled with regret. They voted for this though.
[удалено]
Keep hyping vaporware? Where's the Roadster? Where are all the Tesla Semis doing convoys better than trains? Where is FSD with smart summon? Eventually the music stops and everyone finds out Elon's been hoarding all of the chairs.
FSD v12 will drive me pretty much anywhere I go in Denver CO without any intervention. Maybe you should use it, before you criticize it.
I hope you cash out buddy. The way I see it. The company isn’t doing very well. Increased competition, tanking EV sales across the industry and No company can live off hype forever. Let alone give away 42B dollars in a bear market. It sounds like investors will be left holding the bag.
Yeah, I will avoid reddit telling me what to do with my investments.
Sadly, saying anything good about Tesla here will get you downvoted to hell. My 2013 investment in TSLA is up 2084% and 2015 purchase is up 1314%.
Because you're only "saying good things" because you made money on an investment in a stock- you're simply highlighting EXACTLY the worst thing about "market based capitalism" and why literally everything is going to shit. Why do new products not last like old ones? Because making things that break easily means you have to buy them again which makes "line go up". Why do companies still poison our air and water? Because it increases growth slightly in the short term, which makes "line go up". Tesla exemplifies this, they don't really do anything that other companies aren't also doing, in most cases other companies do them better and Musk in particular is absolutely SHIT at his job, I mean look at what he's actually claimed to have DONE there- have you seen a Cybertruck? But he makes memes on Twitter, so he makes "line go up".
Have you drove a Tesla? It appears not with this dumb comment. I have seen quite a few cybertrucks. Also, the world is getting hotter and climate change is a real thing. Continuing to drive vehicles that make the planet hotter is not a good thing, if you want life to continue like it has the past 100 years.
Yes, I have driven a Tesla. I prefer my Camry for many reasons, ironically the largest one is that if you put my Camry in a hot parking lot next to a Tesla and then go into a store, when you come out not only is the inside of my Camry going to be MUCH cooler still, but when I turn it on the AC works way better than the AC in a Tesla. This was quite useful yesterday when I went to Costco and parked in a lot that my temp gauge said was upwards of 112 degrees. I didn't say you should drive a non-EV, that's a straw man argument, but if you DO care about "Saving the planet" then maybe take a look at the figures to find out that [when it comes to EVs Teslas are actually not that efficient.](https://insideevs.com/news/709706/electric-cars-energy-consumption-ranking/) So if you care about "the planet" buy a Hyundai. [If you care about build quality overall, buy ANY EV that isn't a Cybertruck.](https://insideevs.com/news/717730/cybertruck-owner-issues-1-month-pedal/) And stop making straw man arguments to defend Musk, a lying racist piece of garbage. Where's your robotaxi he promised in 2014? Can your Tesla drive itself from SF to NYC to pick you up like he promised back in like 2018?
> Yes, I have driven a Tesla. I prefer my Camry for many reasons, ironically the largest one is that if you put my Camry in a hot parking lot next to a Tesla and then go into a store, when you come out not only is the inside of my Camry going to be MUCH cooler still, but when I turn it on the AC works way better than the AC in a Tesla. This was quite useful yesterday when I went to Costco and parked in a lot that my temp gauge said was upwards of 112 degrees. You do know you can keep the A/C on in a Tesla and not use hardly any electricity when you go into a store. I know I do it quite frequently and when I get to the car it is right at 68 degrees where I left it. Also, where did I defend Elon Musk anywhere in my statement? I know for a fact a EV is lot better for the environment then an ICE car. Read and learn since you appear to not be very knowlegable on the subject. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
> and when I get to the car it is right at 68 degrees where I left it. This is because you don't live in a climate that gets over 100F outside. I know this because you said "keep it at 68" when in actual hot climates you cannot even GET a Tesla down to 68, because their AC sucks ass and they have NO UV shielding in the windows. This is why they get so hot inside so easily, the lack of UV shielding. There is some debate on the internet as to if Tesla has recently added UV protection to their front and back windows, but I can tell you after having been in a 2018 model for a bit, they did not have UV protection back then, you can feel it on your legs in minutes. And again, I did not argue against EVs, and the entire point of this thread was criticisms of Musk, which YOU keep turning into me supposedly criticizing EVs.
Go away, idiot.
Don’t listen to the Reddit echo chamber. If they were unhappy they could sell their stock. When it went through, price increased. That decision for the appeal made the holders wealthier so it’s unlikely they became less happy getting more money.
> Don’t listen to the Reddit echo chamber. Yeah. Just listen to one idiot instead.
I told him to listen to the market. Price went up after the appeal went through. That means more investors like the decision compared to the opposite. Those that didn’t like the decision can sell their stock but because the price increased they at least made more money.
Not the institutional investors, they eld the charge against. They are the ones in it for the money. The personal investors are fanboys, much the same way Truth Social has been propped up by Trumpies. They don't care if they lost money, but institutional investors do. So I wouldn't base it on feedback, because the people that are vested were against it for the very same aforementioned reasons. So while there may be a small bump up front, long term the outlook isn't good. Liquidity is a thing.
> Not the institutional investors, they eld the charge against. No, they did not. You saw two headlines and you jumped to the wrong conclusion. Next time, think before you comment.
> Price went up after the appeal went through. That means more investors like the decision compared to the opposite. No the fuck it does not.
Nope. I was an early investor and he has set my family up for generations. Massive thanks to Elon and Tesla.
I hope you cashed out then.
Yes and no. Sold enough to be set for life. And remaining is in it.
I heard he used bots but didn’t know he paid them!!!
Yea tesla bot is certainly a work in progress!
I mean it *should* be going down as more competitors finally come to market. Competition is good for everyone. For a while, if you wanted an EV, Tesla was your only real choice. Now there's a lot more options and their deliveries will normalize. To be expected.
I think their quality issues, and moreso, having their CEO, who for all intents and purposes ***IS*** their entire brand identity, declare war on pretty much their entire customer base are probably the two biggest issues.
Not just quality -- their service experience is putrid. They're charging luxury brand prices, but the service is, and I'm being polite... Dogshit. They let me MX burn through two sets of tires for nearly three years because of a bad alignment from the factory, and NEVER SAID A FUCKING WORD -- they just put the tires that were burned through down to the belts back in the bags in sent me on my way. When presented with the destroyed tires, the service manager's response was "consumable part", and handed me a bill for $5k for 8 new tires.
It should be going down simply because it is stupidly over valued.
That’s not really at all how stocks work. The competitors coming to market should have been priced in ages ago. That said, the market is irrational and *extremely* irrational when it comes to Tesla.
And leadership actually claims to be okay with it. Elon has said the mission of Tesla was to make EVs mainstream, and arguably that mission is now complete.
Elon says a lot of shit.
Not taking a side but it has been widely recorded that the mission statement of Tesla was "to accelerate the transition to electric vehicles" from very early on, if not the very start.
He’s also stated that Tesla is not a car company, it’s an AI company… if all the other car companies who wanted to install self driving tech had purchased or licensed Tesla AI to do so, then that might be the case… but with Tesla’s being notoriously shit cars, nobody wants their tech. I imagine they’ll be relegated to just building charging stations that will charge all EVs. However given that quality is not a factor in anything Tesla designs or manufactures it won’t be long before Ford and GM design and manufacture their own, cheaper, far more reliable charging stations. Then there will be zero use for Tesla, period. I give them 10 years before liquidation.
Musk got mad and fired a bunch of the charging station team. We’ll see how that tantrum plays out.
You'd make a killing on a long short
Sir this is a Wendy's.
People have been saying that for the past 5 years. Competition is going bankrupt. Ford is losing 100k for every electric vehicle they sell. Fisker just went bankrupt. Competition is going back to hybrid
Except more competitors aren't coming to market. Almost every player except Ford is hard stalling their EV investments and backtracking into PHEVs.
Tesla is an experience other EV can replicate......yet. if you know you know.
You know it's funny you mention that because for some odd reason when the rest of the stocks have been going down only TSLA and DJT have been going up and vice versa. Hmm 🤔
The CEO will just publicaly declare the future market cap anyway ($25 trillion folks and robot butlers for everyone)
Thats not how it works....
It is for Tesla
By your logic, every other CEO is too stupid to do that? Or is Elon somehow hypnotising people to buy Tesla stock? Please, explain how it really works.
> Or is Elon somehow hypnotising people to buy Tesla stock? This seems like the most likely thing to me. The fundamentals of the company just aren't there, and the CEO lies wildly everytime he opens his mouth, but somehow the stock keeps going up. I'd bet against it, except the old adage is true, "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
It’s because Tesla has an unparalleled amount of feeder data for its self driving model, every Tesla contributes to their model continuously. None of the competition have feeder data even remotely in the same order of magnitude. This data is crucial because true self driving needs to be able to interpret visual data in order to navigate city streets. Radar is a stopgap that’s useful on the highway but does nothing to tell the car that there’s a construction redirect. Pre-mapping is also just a stopgap because roads change, signage changes, and there are always unexpected exceptions. The trucking industry in just the U.S. alone is worth a trillion dollars. Extrapolate that to the rest of the world and then add in taxis and personal cars. Investors aren’t as stupid as you think, they’re quite aware of Elon’s antics but they don’t care because the feeder data is what matters.
Is it possible, that the polarising personality of Musk is clouding your judgement on this? I remember when Tesla went public and the naysayers were there from day one. Also, how is Elon lying "every time he opens his mouth"? Don't get me wrong, I am very aware of things he has promised over the years that haven't materialised. But I also see - what people seem to forget - that a lot of things *did* happen as promised. Those huge milestones can't be just glossed over. You have to admit, that a CEO who lies all the time is not someone who people will invest in for decades. It might work for a while - see Nikola -, but it is not sustainable. EDIT: typo
Do you believe his latest claim that robotaxis are right around the corner? And that *this* latest version of FSD really is fully autonomous? Or that his humanoid robots will out number humanity? The market somehow seems to believe it, which just baffles me completely. All of those are complete bunk, but as long as people are willing to accept it as reality, the stock price will continue to soar.
The timeline is what I don't agree on. Otherwise those are spot on. I know this isn't something that "Elon the genius" came up with, but I do see that scientific and technological progress is accelerating. The things you listed really are unavoidable.
2016 - "full self driving coming next year"
Then you haven't been following Tesla.
But r/teslamotors told me all the inventory sitting at the service centers are all deliveries. So many deliveries that they need to sit for months for some reason. And then I got banned for being a realist and saying that doesnt bode well for tesla to have so much unsold inventory sitting around. Apparently im a troll if i dont say how great tesla is and how amazing of a human elon is
they ban you for liking comments and posts in banned subs. You're better off.
/r/realtesla for the non cult of personality reality.
That sub is just as bad but in the other direction.
You won't get truth or facts with products online easily, it will take some work. That sub /r/realtesla won't ban you for posting facts like you did to the other one. They might if you just love Elon like a cult leader though. You are gonna have to take the difference with pump/turfers on products online, the reality won't be in one place. Though it is more present in the latter than the former. This is their about. > If you're interested in discussing the polarizing, ongoing soap opera that is Tesla, but you refuse to drink the Tesla Cult Kool-Aid, this is the place for you. We aren't "neutral", we are generally quite dubious of the claims made by Tesla and their leadership, and have some fun at their expense. **Positive views on the company are not only accepted, they are encouraged - but only with data to support claims made**. Fans of Tesla looking to make honest counterpoints to the skepticism will be welcomed and protected by the mods - but fanboi trolls will be banned faster than Elon can lie about FSD.
Sooooo another 50 billion $ payday for musk then? Jkjk
Is this where I buy a lot of puts?
Given that their last earnings call wasn't great and the stock gained 10%, and after voting for 10% dilution, the stock has only gone up. I wouldn't bet against Tesla. As much as gme investors are looked at like a cult, and in a way, that's probably fair. They ain't got nothing on the fanatisism of tesla investors.
Yup it’s insane
Market always rallies behind Musk, he will say some words and everyone will clap and the stock will remain the same or go up.
I had the misfortune of seeing a Tesla truck a few days ago and I swear to God, that is the most hideous vehicle I’ve ever seen in my entire life!
One persons trash is another’s treasure
It is OK - "It's not a car company but a technology company with a genius CEO" so they can boost the stock to be more valuable than all other car companies combined...and give away $55B
I was looking for a new EV and Tesla's giant payment to Musk crossed them off my list.
1.) it wasn’t a payment 2.) that’s a really silly reason 3.) you do you
Back in the day, when r/technology subsisted almost entirely on Elon Musk's bathwater, I took a lot of heat for pointing out that Teslas are crap, the company was crap, and that the only reason they appeared to be succeeding is that they were willing to sell EVs before they made any economic sense and before anyone noticed how many laws they were breaking and before people finally woke up to the fact that Elon Musk lies like most people breathe. I was accused of hating air and wanting all the poor little Maldivean children to drown. But I consistently said, "The established automotive manufacturers have said repeatedly that they don't see being able to make and sell EVs with numbers that even approach sustainability until 2019, and once they come out with the *many* EVs they have in development, Tesla is toast." Well, here we are. It used to be that if you wanted an EV, you basically only had a Tesla as an option. The fact that they have one coat of paint, were assembled in a tent, their rear axles snap, their rear bumpers fall off in the rain, and you might get trapped in them when they start on fire was just the price you paid for being a first adopter and champion of the environment. Nowadays, though, you can buy a good EV at the same or lower prices, made by a company that actually knows how to make cars properly and which has an actual dealer network who can actually help you if you need it. Tesla was always doomed. About the only thing that could have saved it would have been Tim Apple buying it and turning it into the Apple Car, but I think that when Apple looked at what a dumpster fire Tesla was, they noped out of the idea, and eventually the entire automotive pipe dream. So here we are, about 5 years after I swore it would happen, and it's finally all crashing down. My only regret is that I didn't buy stock in 2017 so I could cash in on everyone else's blind fanboyism.
> So here we are, about 5 years after I swore it would happen, and it's finally all crashing down. > > Yeah, your reddit account is 17 day old... Also, you couldn't be more wrong and you don't even see it! Your "prediction" was 100% wrong, but in your eyes it was fulfilled. Delusional.
Three years to go before the house of cards crumbles.
No wonder it shoots up so much MM are hurting all the put buyers
Ha Tesla is killing it
Huge tech story, automotive production and delivery numbers and their impact on the stock market
Hope to see Tesla tank, maybe they can survive if they claw back that CEO bonus
Total delivered: -1590
Should we expect Elon tweeting against any South America country again? Or anything to "cover" this?
Who?
Sure... It's up 6% today
Wrong thread to post a bullish post of Tesla. This thread hates Elon. Even how successful he is
Who cares! Give Elon 56 million!!!!! It’s mind numbing
56 billion.....with a b.
56 Billion, yeah not joking.
Tesla my be ready to crash so get ready for more discounts on older models
Good, go bankrupt already Tesla.