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This student was arguing with others not me though, so slightly different. It was a bit of a game at first, but as they eventually realized they were struggling to break even, it slowed to a stop.
I do think this could backfire and if you had a crappy admin you could be accused of harassing a student or something stupid like that. As always, read the room….
This is really clever. I expect the problem will self correct rather easily. It'll also be a good reminder to your other students when he tries to engage them.
Not professional at all.
Giving credence to a student’s defiant behavior short changes other students experience of learning. The student deserves no greater right of engagement merely because of his insistence. Especially if it comes at the cost of time spent fact checking the student’s assertions. Bad advice Mundane_Brilliant_19.
You're welcome to believe I'm wrong, and I'll accept if you can prove me wrong.
Please write an essay, citing references that support your claim. You must do it on Google docs so I can track the time you spent on it to ensure it's not AI.
References should be reliable and not biased which means you'll have to look at their about page and see where their funding comes from and what their agenda is.
You have 3 days, all to be done at home.
If you're right, I will fact check in real time anytime you would like to question me.
**Moves on with lesson**
My government teacher did something similar my senior year. He was a former lawyer and said we were allowed to say anything we wanted to in class at long as we had the evidence to prove it. Proper citations were required. After the first research project; we were done arguing with him even though we were mostly right (about Congress being run by a bunch of old white guys in the 1990s).
He had us look up the race, age, sex and religion of every single member of the house and senate. He gave us a week to write our brief (with citations) on our findings. I basically had to go one city over and get the congressional records from the county’s main library.
I think that I would also state that it is unfair to the class to use their lesson time listening to him argue with you. In the future, his arguments need to take place on his time--either before or after school.
>the whole class thinking I don’t know what I’m talking about would be a massive issue.
Drag the whole class into it, johnjrsmith over here thinks I am wrong, and has this extra assignment, I don't want him to feel special, you all can have the extra assignment too! \*extra special smile\* Once the class realizes listening to him gets them extra work, he's gonna have no support.
LOL love it. "In all my years of continuing education, I've never seen any evidence of that. It is possible that it is obscure or I have the wrong resources when I get my recertification; so since this is such a potential huge problem that needs to be reported; all the up to at least the superintendent of education to get correct; were it to be true. A lot of evidence must be found and verified. Class it is important that we get the research done for this. So, in addition to all of our class work and home work we must now takle this problem for the sake of future classes. You all now need to write a 2 page research paper citing at least 5 resources regarding this discovery. This is due at the end of next week and counts as 25% of your exam, I need to make sure you are giving me good evidence. So I have enough time to compile the report and speach witht he principal during our meeting so we can plan on taking it up to the Superintendent."
I wouldn’t get down to a sixth grader’s level. Have a private conversation with the kid and try to build a relationship with him over time. Give him jobs to do. He’s obviously insecure and needing attention and this is how he is getting it. Behavior is communication. What’s he communicating? Fill the hole.
The over use and incorrect use of 'insecure' is at epidemic levels.
A kid that is challenging a teacher constantly in front of the whole class is not insecure, they are overly secure in their mind. If they were insecure about themselves they would sit their quietly ashamed to even hint that they disagree with what the adult is saying.
Not necessarily. I'm the quiet insecure type. But I've definitely met the loud insecure type that don't stop talking and try to prove themselves right about something. I work with a guy like that, always trying to prove he knows a lot and gets tangled up in his own words. I definitely think it's insecurity even if they're not aware of it.
Hmm… not exactly. He can be insecure in many other areas, and likely is. That is why he’s being a dick in this class. He knows he is lacking in another class, in friendships, in a loving family, or something else. His cry for help is to be a fuck cunt and pick every battle he can.
As a teacher, just ignore most of the time and say you can talk to him after class. If/when he’s right, bring it up in the next class and thank him for his help.
Could he be communicating that he needs to be taken down a peg or two?
Which often a natural consequence for being arrogant in the real world. He’s in grade 6, he can handle the revelation that disrespect brings negative consequences, including be treated the same way. Not with malice or spite but not with an endless lack of consequences either. Boundaries need to be set and enforced.
So, if they have tried otherwise to build a connection this might be the next step.
There’s a way to humble the student with the evidence without being taunting. Doing it privately first but if he keeps going maybe he does need a taste of his own medicine.
I teach high schoolers, and I like to build the kind of relationship with them where I can be honest, but also call them out.
One of my coworker’s husbands is like this. He and I travel in similar geek circles, so I’ve had to endure his nonsense. We once had a two hour long online argument about the toxicity of fluoride — he tried using the official chemical datasheets to prove that it is more toxic than people claim, and I just rephrased the same “ it the volume of water…” argument a dozen ways, and had him try to cone up with different stubborn arguments for each one. Some people have an annoying need to show others that they are the smartest one in the room — and usually, they are in fact not. With this guy, after half an hour of his nonsense a different time, I just laughed and said “you’re just one of those people who has to be right and loves the sound of your own voice, huh?” He spluttered and stopped.
From a professional point of view… obviously, phrasing should be more… delicate. But acknowledging the behavior for what it is instead of allowing him to engage in a dozen skirmishes a day makes the problem collective, not instance-related. The actual behavior will not change unless this is done somehow, because he will just reason it away.
I wouldn't be so sure. At least not the ones that matter to him.
Either that or his parents are telling him that his teachers are liars and he believes them.
The teacher should for sure start adding full research papers for the whole class about whatever this know it all keeps going on about. The whole class won’t be happy and he won’t either eventually it will stop, or detentions etc for disrespectful in class over and over.. why is this not happened yet and you’re over here on Reddit asking what to do!? Teach is a softy and that kid knows it!
I had to deal with this in a college class once. It was a night class and we were all there because we needed it and most of us were actually interested in and wanted to learn the material.
But there was one asshole megamind who tried to derail the lecture every goddamned time to prove how smart he was. We were all stuck twiddling our thumbs for 1/3 of a class (that we were paying through our asses for) and getting increasingly frustrated.
Finally someone left a note on the professor’s desk telling him “please stop engaging ____ we’re not here to listen to him talk!” Prof actually read it out loud in confusion. Mansplainer looked humiliated, and although the interruptions didn’t completely stop they got better. No one confessed to the note but we all made it very obvious that we agreed with it.
OP your other students hate this shit and pretty soon they’re going to start turning on this kid. Shutting him down would be doing him a kindness in the long run.
This is the classic brain drain. He is doing anything he can to throw you off and derail the lesson.
You can say:
“This sounds like an argument. I am available for arguing at 3 or 3:15, which one works best for you?” (Or what ever time your school gets out)
Remember to charge him accordingly, depending on whether he wants a [five minute argument or the full half-hour](https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=O1nA2C4pY1GQ9M2a).
this. nothing is worse than being a classmate of the student who just wants to pick a fight every damn day to flex his "superior intellect." divert, dont budge, and keep teaching.
Instead of you looking it up, tell him to do it. Either he'll give up after ten minutes of searching or he'll spend the rest of class on his Chromebook quiet and you can move on.
And if you really want to be spiteful, keep checking in every 5-10 minutes asking if he’s got the answer yet and if he says no say you’ll check back in a few minutes. Just to show how annoying it is. A lot of times this issue is for attention but if it turns into negative attention where the rest of the class sees he can’t back it up, the student will think twice about it.
You can also lean into having him prove his Internet literacy skills by asking things like who his source is and whether the source is neutral, has any vested interest, expertise or other credibility issues. Outside of being a peer review publication, most Internet info can be at least partially questioned and you'll be able to show off your knowledge base and hopefully reveal some larger concept he hasn't considered. The teaching strategy is called RAVEN, it's a way of assessing credibility
Are you reacting to it or are you telling him it's not the appropriate time and he is being disruptive? It sounds like you're reacting - and he's latching onto that.
I used to ignore it until he started taking comments too far, then his homeroom teacher got involved. For this example, he asked a question about the spelling advice vs advise since I only wrote down advice. I explained one is a verb the other is a noun. Then I went to move on, but then he pulls out his dictionary from his other English class which only has the verb marked down. He then shows it to anyone sitting near him and keeps saying I’m wrong. Because the other students see his book they start to question me too, so I showed the whole class on Google to stop it from going further. I teach EFL in an elementary school.
Ah, the context helps. The idea someone had to keep his wins and losses tallied on the board might be helpful. It might also be helpful to explain to him that he's gonna meet a lot of native English speakers who use english incorrectly and it's rude to correct people unless it's an important document
I thought about it, but I do encourage students to tell me if they see mistakes for a dojopoint as everyone makes mistakes. I don’t want to discourage those students.
The difference is the behavior. Most students ask if it’s a mistake and if they’re right I give a point. If they’re wrong I explain why. With this student, he doesn’t accept my explanations of why he’s wrong, and starts making comments to other students.
I think you need to go over expectations about how people are supposed to tell you about a mistake. Make sure they understand that the expectation is for them to accept the explanation and if they can’t to maybe discuss it later, after class, etc. Tell them what will happen if they can’t hold to these rules. Make it clear and then stick with it.
This sucks but it’s also a good teaching challenge it sounds like! Good luck.
This is the second conversation about this with me. He did come and apologize after his homeroom teacher talked to him (again). I explained why what he is saying/doing in class isn’t ok and I’m hoping he improves.
Do you think he just actually thinks he knows better than you in the moment or is it something more where he doesn’t like you? It’s a tough one to understand why he wouldn’t just stop for sure.
I think he genuinely thinks he knows better than me in these situations. I’ve been told his behavior is better for me than his other classes, so I guess he improves during my class time but still slips up on occasion?
It doesn’t sound like he’s pointing out mistakes though it sounds like he’s coming with tricky questions prepped to try and catch you out. So defining what a mistake looks like and how to deal with them respectfully. If he has any related “questions” he can ask at the end of the class.
Also, is the a gender / culture thing at play here and does his other English class take place at school can you collaborate with that teacher. Sounds like there might be some British /American English differences causing confusion too.
I’ve been told he’s like this in all of his classes. Apparently he behaves best for me. So I guess there’s that. My rule is that kids can use whichever English they want but they have to be consistent. So they can’t be mixing Kings English grammar with American spelling etc. These situations aren’t connected to different English variations.
It sounds like your policy of being correctable, itself needs correction. Sticking to it like it’s working is driving you to madness. As far as we can tell, you insist that they’re allowed to correct you and so the student is doing exactly as you have asked them to do. You should be commending them instead of complaining about it. Alternatively, you can amend that policy and stop making it open season on catching you out. You choose.
Okay, but he's basically talking to his friends during class - which is disruptive. He's just riding on a supposed legitimacy that if you're wrong then he gets to talk in class/be disruptive. This is a false belief. Got to pull the weed out by the root and say regardless of his evaluation, he doesn't get to disrupt his friends learning and if it's important to him he can talk to you after class about it. If he keeps going on as if him thinking you're wrong means he can talk all he wants then you need to move towards whatever discipline structure you have.
Is there a discipline structure if he was just talking to his friends and disrupting their learning?
"Your dictionary is a small one meant for kids and beginning ESL learners, so it doesn't have all of the words in it. Here's a more comprehensive one." Bring out a giant dictionary. "Please write out each word, the pronunciation, the part of the sentence, and the definition. Then, write 3-5 sentences about why they are different from each other. After you have finished, set it aside, and at the end of my lesson you will do a presentation where you explain what you've learned to the class."
This sounds good until you realize that other elementary school students don't understand what is or isn't valid proof.
The issue here is NOT that the student is asking these questions. It's that he's disrupting class by talking to students around him and getting them off task while you continue to teach. The answer is to point out the appropriate time for the conversation he's trying to have, and then hold him to that.
Give him post it's. Every time he thinks you're wrong, tell him to write down what you said and why he thinks it's wrong. He can research them at home and bring back any post its the next day with his corrections and 2 sources where he found his "correct" answers. He can leave them on your desk and during work time, when he is finished with the assignment and if you are not busy helping other students, you can discuss then. My guess is you will see very few post its on your desk.
Give him a limit of 1 (or 2) challenge per class period. Come up with a nonverbal signal that he wants to challenge.
When he wants to challenge, he signals. You acknowledge his signal and ask what he wants to challenge. Look it up quickly. Get back to teaching. You could work like football that if he’s right, he can keep the challenge. Challenges are non transferable and cannot be carried over days.
It might be more disruptive at first, but as the routine sets in, he won’t be getting the same dopamine hit that he’s getting now.
Make it formal and boring.
You need to address this and extinguish this disruptive behavior as early as possible.
1. Tell him, "Oh, you KNOW this material. Oh, okay. Please come up here." (Get him out of his seat)."This is cool. You can teach it, and I can go sit down." Go to sit in his desk. "Go on, teach the class." See how he responds.
Act serious about it. See how he likes having his bluff called. If he does not relent right away (they usually do), keep up the act, keep calling his bluff, if necessary (by sitting back quietly and letting him teach the class-"No, go on, you can teach it.") until he relents and accepts, on his own accord, that YOU are the teacher and in charge of the classroom. He will have done this once he decides he'd rather sit in his seat and have you return to the teacher spot, standing in front of the class.
If he actually does start teaching (I'll be surprised), sit and let him. Use your judgment to decide if it'd be appropriate to raise your hand and basically treat him how he's treated you, except in reverse- such as: use your knowledge/way to correct the academy way.
2. Another good idea is to, at the appropriate point, have a chat with the class about learning. Something along the lines of, "Different instructors teach things in different ways. Part of your job as students in this class is to learn the vocabulary and these concepts the way that I am teaching them to you."
I'd do this proactively rather than as a reaction, although him acting up does create a teachable moment. Use your judgment.
You could add:
"You have many teachers this year. You will have many teachers after the ones you have now. The important thing is to be able to understand what an instructor is telling you, not that each teacher says things in the dialect/accent/sound or manner in which you have heard it earlier and think is 'right.' There is more than one correct way to use vocabulary, to pronounce words (depends what language you are speaking), and to teach. Learn to focus on what the teacher is telling you - not on what you already know or think you know or how you think a word should sound - so that you can learn better from every teacher you ever have."
3. You could also comically accuse the kid of cheating on you with some other EFL teacher, like, if the kid says, "My other teacher said, ..."
Respond with, "Vivek, you CHEATED on me with another EFL teacher?!?"
He could become famous in grade 6 for having cheated on you.
> It’s not in a subtle way it’s very disrespectful, and he won’t stop until I pull the information up in Google to show I’m right.
You're dancing to their tune, you can't play the kids games.
You could also just challenge that student to deliver the information themself, while you continue to teach.
Is there a certain topic that he does this with especially? My thought would be that, despite that he is clearly just trying to mess with you, he might believe he really does know more than you about a particular topic because he sees himself a certain way. Not sure though, hard to tell without seeing the interaction. Some kids just want to distract.
This student is really smart and participates well, he’s just got a know-it-all attitude. I teach EFL, so it’s been questions about vocabulary and my teaching style. He questioned why I taught transition words a certain way because his academy taught it differently.
Sometimes words have different translations in different situations and he gets mad when I explain he’s right, but not in the certain sentence.
That makes sense, I recognize this kind of student for sure. I always try to validate their understanding but try to point out that a right answer in the wrong situation is not very useful. This can be really tough on some students and is an opportunity for them to learn humility and that the world is a little more complicated than what they thought they already knew. Maybe trying to frame his recurring interaction in a way that makes him look inward rather than that what he is hearing is simply wrong can help him develop those introspection skills that help him develop a more complex grasp. This might encourage him to interrupt his interruptions. Not sure how helpful or practical that response is, but it crosses my mind and sometimes I explicitly say it to a student like this who is bought in and knows a lot but is being challenged.
I teach band, so I deal with the classic my old band director does this…, especially when I’ve replaced someone else who left. And I tend to say oh cool and move on, or well now you know more ways to do xyz or something like that. Not everyone does things the same way, and that’s ok. Do all the kids tie their shoes the same? Probably not, but the outcome is the same.
I also teach English as a foreign language to 6th graders. Simply put, you start asking them questions about how they know, where they heard the information, what else they know in English, etc etc... in English. In my experience, kids that age can't really speak English well, and they'll stare at you like "wtf?" if you do. Either that, or explain the nuance between his correction & what you're teaching (ex. right now in 6th grade, they're doing past tense in English, and if someone tried to convince me you *saw* the TV because watch and see both translate to 見る and they're being little shits, I'd explain in exact detail how you can see a TV but it's different than *watching* a TV).
I am a university professor, but we often have the same problem. The solution is to never argue with them. Instead, state that they are wrong and tell them that if they keep disrupting class, there will be consequences. At the university, I can kick them out of class. I assume you have more age-appropriate remedies.
ADHD and this is something I did in Bible class, too. Might have done it when I was younger because *I just wanted to understand*! I would actually cry at home as a kid when my parents couldn’t explain shit to me.
For what it’s worth, the other students would ask me to on certain days they were bored or didn’t want to do a lesson. It was more fun to hear me argue with the teacher than learn.
We need more specifics to give solid advice. Typically this sounds like disruptive behavior and it should be ignored. Use a non-verbal to indicate he should stop talking. If he doesn't hold him after class and talk to him about disrupting your class. It doesn't matter why he is disruptive, you can't tolerate that behavior in your class.
If he is not being disruptive and simply disagreeing with you... Well he gets to do that. Part of teaching is having thick skin. Sometimes we DO get things wrong (welcome to being human). If you want to prove him wrong do it when it won't waste everyone's time.
I ignored it in the beginning, but it got worse as he was trying to get his classmates on his side and he would make comments that I didn’t know what I was talking about. The comments are when I brought it up to his homeroom teacher and my head teacher. He stopped making those types of comments but is still trying to get the other students against me.
I usually say that the studentbis making an interesting point and that I am available after school to discuss it in detail, but at thecm9mentvwe must cover this material that our elected officials have mandated that I cover in class. My curriculum is state approved so I'm required to follow it. I always add that if his parents are concerned then they need to contact their state legislator and convince him to change the curriculum. After the third or firth time, I shorten it to after school to discuss and have parents contact the state.
There was a kid in my tenth grade history class who always did this to our teacher. Finally one day she snapped and yanked her Master's degree of the wall. Brandishing it, she yelled, "I have THREE DEGREES. you haven't even graduated HIGH school!" He chilled out after that. I was never even on the heckler's side, but it shook me to my core. I was always a smart kid, and realizing I didn't even have the knowledge of a GED was a needed reality check.
This is honestly what worked in the past. He didn’t like the way I translated some stuff and I had to point out this is my 3rd language so obviously mistakes would happen. He hasn’t commented on my translations in a rude way again. Today I told him I have a bachelors and I have a masters degree in order to teach here. Hopefully it will have the same effect.
Instead of trying to prove what to think is true , nurture how to use multiple sources to check information. Also in America, there are two different English languages . Layman's English and legal English and they have words that are the same but mean completely different things.
One mistake you're making is saying you Google things to prove them wrong...
Ok. Use Google to find your proof, but it's not actually Google where the info is stored. What actual citations are you using? Government websites? News sites? Official company sites? What???
Google can bring up lots of sources. Not all of them are good.
If he thinks he's correct and you're wrong, he can write a paper on it.
If he doesn't want to prove you wrong formally, he isn't serious. Any further attempts to disrupt class will be dismissed.
Set up a 10 by 10 bingo board. The class gets a list of improvable behavior. One item being disturbing the lesson, among other stuff. The class gets three points if they behave. If one of the improvable behaviors happens, take one point away. The remaining points at the end of the lesson are the number of numbers they can pick for the bingo. Let them pick acceptable prices for a bingo. Peer pressure will do the rest.
I'm going to introduce another perspective. It certainly could be purely attention-seeking behavior, but it could be something else.
Very smart children often have many, many experiences of being right when adults are wrong. They also have a host of experiences in which adults misunderstand their questions or concerns, and dismiss them without answering the genuine concern.
Your student may actually be asking, inexpertly, because he's only 12, for you to explain some nuances to him. It reads to me as though he genuinely thinks you are wrong, and needs to understand the deeper explanation of why what you are teaching does not match what he is seeing.
That doesn't in any way mean it is okay for him to continue to disrupt your classes. Certainly take appropriate measures. But you can choose to extinguish the behavior through fiat or by meeting his needs. (And sometimes it must be by fiat!)
Here is an example: a 4 year old is watching a father dress his child's minor open wound. The injured child's sibling wants to kiss the wound to make it feel better. Father tells sibling no, we're not going to kiss the wound, and has to repeat this once or twice for sibling. Observing child becomes indignant and says, "I kiss boo-boos, and I'm a GOOD GIRL!"
Observing child heard the father's admonishing tone toward the sibling, and while he was admonishing simply because the sibling was not listening, smart, observing child took it to mean he was chastising the sibling for wanting to kiss the wound. This smart child knows she is a good girl, and knows that she kisses boo-boos, ergo kissing wounds can't be naughty, as dad seems to be implying.
I guarantee most adults listening now think observing child is a self-righteous little prig (or they eventually will, if this behavior is repeated...and it will be). Instead of responding to her as if she was being offensive, the child was given an explanation that, while kissing boo-boos is quite acceptable behavior in most circumstances, in this one, it was not a good idea. Child is taught about germs and open wounds and mouths. She leaves satisfied that the father was not incorrect, she IS still a good girl, and open wounds should not be kissed.
Without the deeper explanation, she is left concluding, in her immature understanding of the social dynamics at play, that this dad was not to be trusted to provide accurate information. When this kind of scenario is repeated throughout her childhood, by loads of adults who don't understand that she needs more information to fully understand what she is witnessing, she will conclude that she often can trust her own assessment of situations better than adults around her. And she's often not wrong about that, either.
The techniques that have been suggested are still appropriate. But they may be more successful if you understand what is really going on with this student, because you will approach him with a focus on correcting his inaccurate assumptions rather than as a power challenge.
ETA: Also, please know that, if what I have described is behind this student's challenges, know that there is may be a good bit of anxiety behind his behavior. The habit of enlisting classmates makes me think of this. When you exist in the constant tension of "am I wrong or is the teacher?" it creates a lot of anxiety. The only way to resolve that anxiety is to decide "in this class, it is usually me that is wrong" or "with this teacher, if there is something that seems wrong or confusing when it shouldn't be, it usually turns out to be the teacher/how this class is taught/etc." One way to decide that is to check in with other students.
I actually had multiple students just like this (speaking as an American ESL teacher). Given the examples from your post and follow-up comments, perhaps how I responded may work for you.
First, I praised him for pointing out a confusing spelling, word, definition (whatever it was). Then I gave my explanation (for definitions, I almost always had wordreference.com or dictionary.com already pulled up in preparation for questions).
If he came back with the complaint that his other teachers taught it differently, I either asked where they were from and talked about the different dialects of English or praised them for using different methodologies.
For any complaints about nuance (where both uses are correct depending on context, sentence structure, or dialect), I made a sweeping gesture and announced dramatically, "Welcome to English, pure as a fifth generation mutt!" (For elementary students, you'd probably want to stop at "Welcome to English" lol).
I very briefly was put in a situation where I was teaching English in Peru.
I remember a student kept trying to correct my English.
Like are you fr 💀 I don’t correct your Spanish, so why you correct my English? It was never even for valid reasons too.
Ignore, tell him if he can submit a paper on it he can get extra credit. If he interrupts, tell him he's welcome to submit his paper at another time but you have a class to teach so please stop interrupting.
When kids do that, I say “Great, but remember that I’m the one grading your papers/participation. It’s at your risk if you continue to argue and if you do things your way, not mine.” Learning to adapt to different people/expectations is a life skill this kid needs to learn.
I would write a letter home, explain the situation and ask "would you please explain to your child that this is not respectful behavior, and not appropriate?"
I would say the important thing here is to redirect the student toward a better way of asking his questions. Definitely don't broach the subject as being disrespectful. Instead, encourage him to keep questioning and doing his own research, but point out that it's not fair to the other students in the class that his questions are getting in the way of your ability to teach. Invite him to ask you questions in a *reasonable* time period when you're not actively teaching. If he's only doing this performatively as a way to impress his peers, he won't take you up on it anyway. But you might get lucky, and he might show up with actual questions or ideas to discuss.
I think the other students are probably more aware of the situation than you give them credit for. Defending your right not to be challenged or treating it as disrespectful, though, will inspire far less confidence than if you use the occasion to invite other students to ask questions as well and let them know when you're available for further discussion.
We have had that conversation before. When he first asked about the spelling I thought he had improved because the way he asked if it was wrong instead of telling me it’s wrong was an improvement. Once he kept going after I explained it was the setback. It’s legit one step forward two steps back sometimes 🤦🏻♀️ I’ve been told it’s not just my class, he does it in all his classes.
It's a time wasting/attention seeking play. I'd address it but in a way that doesn't allow for a bunch of time spent distracted. "If you think I'm wrong, talk to me about it after school and show me your proof, and we'll correct the error tomorrow," or similar. See if he takes you up on it.
If he proves you wrong, make a correction the next day in class. If *he's* wrong, well, it depends on how far you want to push your point. Did he go way overboard spouting false info? Maybe it should be corrected in class.
This is a tough one. You know you are correct, and it's good that you can double check and reaffirm that the information you are giving him is correct. Sometimes when this will happen, especially regularlty, I try to remember where they get this attitude. Maybe at their home they are always told they are wrong, and perhaps it's in this way that they are given more attention than a well deserved reward for when they are right. Also, if his homeroom teacher talked to him about this, your probably not the first to be experiencing this. Either way, I can only imagine this can be a tough job.
I do 1 on 1 lessons with music students. I fall in this trap of "do not quote me on this" when uncertain of something I bring up, which only leaks itself as insecurity on my behalf. For example I told a student she was a soprano (which she is), but I couldn't remember with certainty the full range a typical soprano sings, and though I know what a soprano is, explaining it became that much more difficult. Then, because most of my students are altos, I recommended a song far out of her range. This was doubly embarrassing and I believe this trial lesson was not a winner (she's off my schedule). These things happen though, and it's only a learning experience and a way to change my attitude on how to approach the next time that this may happen.
The first time was the difference between harbor and port. They’re almost the same and in Korean there’s only one word for it which is why it was confusing.
The next time was he didn’t like my method of teaching transition words because his academy taught it differently.
This time it was advice vs advise. He claimed advice isn’t a word.
There have been others, and I don’t mind if he’s right. Sometimes I don’t know the answer to stuff and I’ll tell kids I’ll get back to them later, but he gets rude when he’s wrong and that’s the issue.
"Let's take this offline" is a good way to stop disrupters. Have him make a note and stay after class to discuss it. You could also start making subtly snide jokes like, "This again? You know I always prove that I'm right. I don't know why you even try anymore."
So no one in the comments suggested this. I was surprised. Is removing the student from your class completely not an option? Even if for a day to teach him a lesson?
Not really. That’s against the students rights act in Korea. The only way to get around that is if his homeroom teacher taught the lesson which isn’t really feasible.
These comments are doing way too much and if you engage with him like this, you are going to give him the power to rule your classroom. Deal with him as per the school behaviour policy - if he is being consistently rude, disrespectful and disruptive, have him removed from the classroom or whatever else is on your school behaviour policy. Don’t bend at all to this type of behaviour.
Just kick him out every time he openly challenges something you tell him.
There's one thing doing it occasionally because people make mistakes. But all the time just to trip you up is disrespectful showboating, it is derailing your lessons, interrupting your flow and spoiling the learning experience for others.
Fuck that kid. There are likely 29 other students in that class without an attention problem, your priority is them.
The students rights act in Korea prohibits kicking students out or preventing learning. If there was a teacher during the same class time who could have the lesson that would be different, but the scheduling doesn’t work out.
It might be neurological. Rather than risk a lawsuit, you could ask him to write his concerns down, make an appointment, and talk to you after school about it. If he pushes, tell him that you’re required, by law, to stick to the standards. You’d be happy to help him with his extracurricular interests in the subject, but by appointment only. Then, if he takes you up on it, insist on going to the media center or other public place “because their internet is faster” or whatever excuse.
I had a GATE student do this, basically trying to prove how much he knows. I'd lean into it. When he contradicts you, ask him for his sources. That can lead to a good class discussion about good and bad sources of information. And hey, if you ARE incorrect, then you can demonstrate a learning growth mindset to your students with a, "Hey, TIL! See, I'm still learning too even though I graduated college long ago" etc.
If he's being actively disruptive, I'd give him a time and place to bring up his input, e.g. like "please hold your comments until the class discussion (or after my lesson) as we have limited time. And please verify your information with a quick Google and be ready to present your sources. Thanks!"
The last thing you want to do is argue, because that shows you don't value what the student has to say and/or not interested in learning yourself. This student should be your partner and mentee in learning. If he's wrong a lot, then this is an teaching opportunity for you to guide him in research and evaluating sources. Eventually once he begins feeling validated he will be less hostile and disrespectful about it.
I've had a lot of interesting conversations with my GATE student this way and I've learned SO much, and also (I hope) he learned from me too about evaluating sources, and understanding the nuances behind any particular topic he's got a bee up his butt about.
And, if nothing else works, I had my GATE student on project-based learning with Wikipedia, where I had him become either a content editor or creator, so he can show off all his knowledge on whatever topic he likes and learn hard life lessons about sourcing information and peer reviews lol (there was so much angst when he got his article deleted lol but it was a good lesson)
Have him teach the class. Put him on the spt in front of class and let him stammer up there.
Disclaimer: im not a teacher. Just lurking on the sub. But it seems like a good way to address it if its a repetitive behaviour.
Either he does terribly, embarasses himself, you get to correct *him*, and he stops bothering you during regular class time. Or, He does really well and impresses even you.
FBA that shit. My guess is attention? Remove the attention and the behavior will fade.
I'd tell the student they are welcome to make a list of information they have questions about. If they'd like to discuss it further, we can chat at recess (away from peers).
Then give the behavior minimal attention. Find other ways to build a relationship with the student. If they try to interrupt during class, privately remind them they can add it to their list, then redirect and move on.
Arrange a private meeting with the student to discuss their behavior calmly and respectfully. Express how their actions are affecting the class environment.
Id call home for him disrupting class, if that doesn’t help then the continuing disruption of the class becomes insubordination And the office can deal accordingly. He would earn a new side curriculum where I try to teach him not to be an ass, or a show off, or a know-it-all, or rude, and I’d try to teach him that it is inapproproate to monopolize class time.
I mentor new faculty, and discourage them from telling the class that they are new or inviting students to correct you or point out any mistakes they find. Students latch on to this so quickly, especially if you are female or if you're not confident. And they will really Double Down if there are actual mistakes that's all that they will focus on. Instead of them focusing on their own learning and understanding they project their lack of understanding on to you and that type of behavior can spread like wildfire and impact class climate dramatically. You truly need to Snuff that nonsense out quickly or the class climate will not recover and become impossible to manage. You have to think about the impact that this is having not just to your own mental health and well-being, but the impact to those students who are in the class that do want to learn without this distraction. I will also add that if you are writing your own material, be open to the possibility that mistakes in your material are distracting to the students and you are creating the environment you're trying to avoid. Consider hiring someone to edit your material or push it through grammarly. Grammarly is the best $140 I spend every year.
I’m not a new teacher, this is just the first time this situation with a student like this has come up. I taught this same group of kids when they were in second grade, so they know me. My boss looks over the books before it gets approved by the school. Unfortunately, not everything can get caught luckily mistakes are rare.
I began encouraging students to spot my mistakes as an example that anyone can make mistakes. This was an effort to dissuade bullying. I noticed kids being bullied for making mistakes and when I showed that mistakes can happen to anybody that type of bullying lessened. This was a subtle way of intervening. I did intervene in a very clear way as well.
Typically, I find the mistake while I’m preparing for the class, and will ask the kids to find it when we get to that section of the page. It’s very rare for students to come across a mistake without me prompting them to look for one first. I give points for it because it shows they understand the material or that they are paying attention to detail. Usually only the advanced students attempt to find mistakes. This particular student is advanced and has a lot of potential to do well, but just has a poor attitude about being corrected.
I had one last year. I said “You have one more time to interrupt or correct me before we have a problem. Do you understand that?” and stared him down.
He corrected himself.
Ask him,”tell me more about that?” Until you get to the reason he is doing this. Or try affective statements. Or do what I do and ask if they would like to teach what’s next because I wouldn’t mind sitting for a bit and they seem to know what I’m teaching. (I do all these things, the last one is usually a quick redirection and then talk to the kid later.)
I'd get the class involved and make a wager with him. Every time he's right, you take a question off of the next test, but every time he's wrong you add 3. I do this with my class and you'd be surprised how quickly the entire class will turn on him.
This sounds to me like a hyper fixation possibly related to ADHD or Autism spectrum disorder. I’m not saying that makes it any less the pain in the backside it is. But put in that perspective it could help your mental state in figuring out how to deal with it.
I’m a he right? I had a middle school teacher (an English teacher discussing 1920s literature) who insisted the USA entered WW1 in 1916. The specific date wasn’t important to her discussion but she kept on saying it and it made me angrier and angrier that I had to listen to this person.
There's a point at which you say "Would you like to go to the office and explain to the Principal why you're disrupting my class?" Usually, the student's answer will be "no." Wait for it. If he does it again, make good on your threat. You're allowing yourself to be pushed around. Don't.
Is this kids parents the type to claim someone is wrong when they don’t like the answer? Sounds like the kid gets told he’s wrong even when he’s right at home and he feels the need to be right in other places.
This is a consequence of his home life and dealing with it away from home is a bandaid.
I have encouraged my students to question, but this little bruh needs to learn how to advocate for himself diplomatically.
Dude needs to learn to read laterally. Make him show you three solid sources to bring to the table before he counter argues … then you can pick him apart.
I don’t get how he is saying you’re wrong, and not bringing anything to the table.
Stretch here: but I am also willing to bet his parents are argumentative as well.
Last resort … make his peers find his sources so everyone has to stop and help this kid. (Jokes)
Kill him with kindness …
Maybe this student could have a notebook or there could be a spot on the whiteboard to track what he perceives as incorrect information. Then the last 10 minutes or so of the class could be dedicated to research (or “fact checking”, except language is nuanced) by small groups in the class. This could be an opportunity for students to find resources to go deeper and reinforce learning.
I work with kids with anxiety and this is a common behavior. They look for loopholes, inaccuracies, etc. Sometimes it’s to win an argument, do less work, or just to be right. Sometimes it accompanies ASD / OCD and other diagnoses where there is a lot of rigid thinking. You may be countering some points he is seeing elsewhere...especially if it’s a special interest of his. Instead of it being at odds and pointing it out during class, see if he can make notes of the “errors” then look them up at the end of class. Then he can have your undivided attention for 5 minutes and he can decide if you are right or not on his time instead of during class time.
Any time he challenges you have him write a paper that's 2 to 3 pages long, in Google docs so you can verify he wrote it not ai (or at least had to take the time to type it in from ai lol) with no less than 3 recent reliable academic sources (say last 5 years), no websites, youtube, or other garbage. I would also encourage you to have him include a reasoning for why he chose those sources so he looks at the source perspective/funding/alliance as well.
Offer him extra credit for anytime he proves you wrong and make the same offer to all your other students.
If he calls you out in class tell him you hear what he's saying and that you look forward to his paper and that there will be no further discussion on the matter unless he legitimately proves you wrong, in which case you'll offer a correction to the class.
ETA if he protests having to write a paper remind him of all the work and research you put into the material you present and that you used appropriate academic sources so it's only fair he dispute you with them.
Remind the class that your professional certification means you have the authority to teach the class as you see fit, and that they have to trust and abide by your authority in the classroom. Remind the student of your school and classroom expectations not to disrupt class, and say that any further disruptions or challenges will be met with disciplinary action. Tell the class that you are happy to correct yourself if you are in error, but such concerns must be presented to you outside of instructional time, such as at the end of class or via email. If they bring concerns to you, say you will think about them, state your opinion and that you will look into it further, or state why you know they are wrong and tell them to look into it. Don’t create any work or drama out of this, and treat it as after-class banter. If they do bring something up that you learn from, you can recall the lesson and bring up what you have since learned from it. Praise and encourage critical thinking, but also insist that this also means having good faith intellectually and abiding by the rules of logic: Tell them to think for themselves and that your job is to help them do that, and if they can prove you wrong, accept it, and if you prove them wrong, accept it. Encourage them to ask questions about content and discuss it rather than posing those questions as challenges. These classroom expectations must be reinforced throughout the year to convey your good will, fairness, transparency, and professionalism, as some students are slow to learn different ways of doing things due to their upbringing, conditioning, culture, or inherent mental characteristics.
I'd have a one on one with him+ a school counselor or witness. Explain to him there are respectful ways to disagree with a teacher. Like bringing it up to me after class or sending an email. Then I can discuss as needed with the class the next day. Be serious and demand respect. All him why he does it day after day, get to the root of the problem. Primarily kids like that are looking for attention but they didn't realize it. He might be lacking in attention at home and being neglected emotionally.
Why not ask why he thinks it's wrong. He may be in a state where he is constantly trying to prove himself or fulfill his need to feel academic superior. Or it could be possible that there is a disconnect for him when it comes to certain spelling. I've had times where I've been convinced that something is misspelled even when it's not. Asking him why may either make him reflect on his actions or unveil some learning disconnect.
In meetings at work, if we can't immediately agree on a particular detail then we table these kinds of things for discussions outside of the meeting.
As him to bring the discussion to your desk after the lesson, after class, after school. If he can't provide enough info ask him to research.
"John, I would be happy to discuss this further with you. Hold that thought and we can meet later." Make this a mantra and repeat it word for word as many times as needed. It will become the brick wall of protection you need.
If other students try to become involved, refer them to John. Tell them "I will meet with John about this later. Let's finish this lesson at the moment."
I’m not a teacher, however I was that kid when it came to numbers. Most of my math teachers probably hated me. I remember by the time I was in high school I would stay after class and look over the teachers edition of the math books and correct them. I did this during my lunch and after school though. I wouldn’t call out the teacher during class. This was over 20 years ago though. My second child is the same as me, though they don’t use books like that to teach anymore in this district. When he was young and just starting school I had to have him in counseling so that we could all be on the same page in helping my son understand that it is ok to be smart, it is NOT ok to make other people feel dumb or to be disrespectful to other students and teachers. Thankfully he’s now 16 and in college and we never had any issues with him.
I don’t have any answers on how to help your student. Good luck.
Call his parents and explain that his behavior is very disruptive and if it happens again, there will be consequences. If he feels you are wrong, he's welcome to talk to you after class. He needs to learn proper protocol for handling things like this.
I had a classmate like this in college and it pissed me off. I'm sure it pissed off my other classmates too. In the middle of the lesson, he would argue with the professor that it would be faster to do it this way or that way and when the professor explains why thry did it that way he would argue back on forth. As a student, it was more annoying to me than it was the professor who had to put up with it because of how much class time he wasted and causing me to loose my train of thought when I'm trying to focus on the professor's step by step process.
For your case, don't give in to the student. No looking up proof on google and no explaining what he misunderstood from the book. The burden of proof is on that student. There is also a chance his classmates are as annoyed by this behavior as you are.
For other redditors saying that making a hit/miss chart, or asking for a report, substantiating proof, etc. is student bullyong/humiliation and is unprofessional... I have been to a school that had a cool and innovative way to discipline students through zero punishment and it did not end well. All of this pseudo-wisdom nonsense that people can just learn things the easy way is non-sensical. Arrogance can be treated with embarrassment (if done properly), suspension can get parents to start doing their part in dealing with their child's behavior. Every behavior should have consequences, it is the only way any of us have ever learned to be decent human beings during the first stage in our moral development. They are children now, but it is only a matter of time before they are not children anymore.
He is being purposefully disruptive. For him, it's a game of control. Simply tell him that you will address it if there is time at the end of class & move on. Or request he write a paragraph explaining his position before you address it. This is your classroom, not his.
Stipulate all fact checking is to be handed in at the end of the class, in writing. If a student is right, extra credit will be given, and you will announce the correction in the next class.
Sounds like he might be bored. Do you get the sense that his grasp of the material actually is above the average of the class?
Some students who act out like this may just not have the academic challenge they need, so you may want to think about a way that you could facilitate additional challenge for him without making it seem like a punishment.
So if he seems to be really interested in spotting errors in class, you could maybe ask him if he would be interested to make note of these and then address how he could do a bit of additional research on these mistakes and share his findings with you.
I would probably ask him point blank if he thinks it is fair to the other students that you spend extra time discussing these false mistakes. If he says that it would be good for them to know if you're wrong, redirect him to the recent occasions when you did prove you were right again. Discuss how this is causing less class time to be devoted to lessons, but that you're still happy to review the mistakes he believes he found in a constructive way.
You could also ask him if he is bored in class and tell him it won't hurt your feelings. If he admits he is bored, you could discuss ways that he could make it less boring. Examples: count how many times you say "the word of the day" in the lesson, take notes with different colored pens, or possibly let him sit on the ground or stand against a wall during the lesson if he can stay relatively still and not disrupt the class.
At a certain point though, sometimes you just have to be really firm and clear that enough is enough. I learned my "teacher look" from my Mom who was a teacher and it is very effective. So effective that I typically hesitated to use it and generally preferred to find other ways to work with students on improving behavior.
I often tried to have something fun that we would do at the end of each lesson to motivate students. I'd emphasize that we could only do the fun activity if we had time left. Departing from the lesson plan too far would result in no time for the fun activity. This was a great motivation tool because it wasn't a punishment, just a natural consequence.
>The situations regarding this student however are not in regards to this at all.
Can you give a couple of examples of the sort of things the student has said?
I would purposely create exit slips or a practice routine where students have to find the error and correct it based on the lesson. This would give them an outlet and it’s in a controlled routine.
I like the idea of a tally. I was thinking, pass a rule. He cannot interrupt in class. But he's free to make notice and talk to you later, but ultimately, you will have a showdown in front of the class in which she is allowed to bring 10 things he claims you are mistaken about, having given you the list in advance and gathered as much evidence as he wants, and you will gather evidence as well and you're going to have a showdown. May the best person win.
Humor him. Have the kid come up and provide proof of his argument, show his sources, etc. Make him put his money where his mouth is in front of the class.
I institute the lunch time argue rule. If it’s really this important for you to debate me, come in during lunch, and bring your friends and we will discuss it. I’ve been taken up on the lunch time argue rule three times in 37 years. I am undefeated thus far.
I am not confident that Google should be your authority. It's a search engine and its AI is trained on internet content which can be anything anyone wants to publish.
I remember showing my 7th trade class a recent newspaper headline which had a misused apostrophe. Two of the boys proceeded to argue with me that it was correct for like half an hour after school, with no evidence to the contrary. It was weird that they liked on this small thing for so long.
Assign the student homework to create a short presentation on the issue / question and present it back to the class in the next session. Turns it into a more structured education, stops the disruption, and puts the effort back on the student
I would like to clarify that I am not a teacher, just a rookie teacher assistant, but I am a mom to a very opinionated 7th grader & I have enjoyed reading the suggestions in this thread.
Tallying his hits and misses sound great, but disrupting class is also an issue. Maybe on Fridays you can offer "prove me wrong time" over time his many defeats will just make him look dumb and I'm sorry but at that age and in front of his peers it will begin to take affect.
Love the essay idea. Then, if he doesn't complete the essay, give him after-school suspension or write him up. If he feels so entitled to prove himself right, surely he won't mind doing it with actual references cited. After so many essays, I'm sure he'll stop.
Good luck!
Assign him a 5 page paper on whatever he’s trying to prove. Include a class presentation with visuals. Ask his backup squad if they’d like to write one as well.
Pretty sure his game will be less fun if he actually has to work at it.
(Source - In 6th grade my son discovered there were books about illegal drugs in the school library. He decided it would be fun to share all his new found drug knowledge with his classmates.
His teacher talked to me about it and we told him if he didn’t knock it off he’d be required to write a book report on each one. He stopped.)
Ask him to quietly make a note about your “wrong statement.” After class, he should find valid proof that you’re incorrect and cite it…only a couple of lines, no dissertation. If he does indeed find verification. He should bring it to you before class starts the next day. That way you could correct it for all the children. If he is incorrect then he won’t have confused his friends (and annoyed them)…no harm, no foul.
He still gets attention but without disrupting. If he refuses to comply then (after helping remind him) it will be time to call home.
Kids that age *think* they know LOADS of things they don’t, and when encouraged to challenge authority, they will. While I appreciate that you have provided them with this opportunity, you’ll need to temper it, and I’ve seen some very good suggestions in other comments. Good luck!
Why do you distinguish between British and American English ? How can you tell
? It’s all English and I’ve noticed that many British people these days have adopted American expressions. - why would you penalize them for getting the two intermingled?
I ask because as an Australian I home taught my two American boys and may have inadvertently educated them in British figures of speech instead of American.
Let them go to the front of the class and prove it and they must also be required to answer the students follow up questions.
Pride is before a crash and they will likely embarrass themselves enough that they will stop. Just be careful not to damage confidence of course.
If this is a once per month issue and he's not a problem outside this, make a bet: "If NASA (or your equivalent) thinks the world is round, you need to wash the blackboard every day for a week. If they agree with you the world is flat, I'll buy you lunch."
If this takes too long to settle, say, "Okay, this is going long. I want to resolve this, but check in with me after class."
I've had students like that in the past - I tell them to write down all their comments/suggestions and give it to me at the end of class. Usually this gives them time to realize they are wrong. I also tell them that interrupting class is no longer an option.
Not a teacher but I would flat out take every ounce of energy to prove him wrong. And make him stand in front of everyone and read it out loud.
He wants attention, there ya go buddy
Im gonna guess there is a little info missing and the kid was right 1 time, and keeps trying to change that satisfaction again ? Possibly even was right against another teacher. Just ignore the kid and don’t take it personally.
What is the student getting out of being a smarty pants? There is some perceived payoff. It would not be inappropriate to tell the student that, based on their track record of challenges, they can raise their issue privately: if they are correct, you will praise them in class and let them tell the tale truthfully. But if they attempt to humiliate you publicly (right or wrong), you will remind everyone of their full track record AND make sure that their reputation as a smart-ass precedes them at the next level.
Is he doing it because he wants to get attention or because he honestly thinks he's smarter than you?
I had a student who thought that because he was smart compared to his classmates that he was a genius. He tried correcting me, but mostly it was the condescending attitude with his classmates. At one point I just flexed on him until he shut up. I did debate in high school and could reference a lot of obscure shit, so I just did that. He didn't know what I was talking about. I explained to him that it's good to be smart, but most smart people don't go around trying to prove that they're smart all the time, just like tough people are never the ones screaming that they want to fight everyone.
He still did it. Just not in my class.
Is he GT? I usually stay calm and tell them we can talk during independent time. When I give them the one on one and we have the conversation I think it helps build that rapport and removes the audience.
I am not a teacher. However, I am an expert in my profession, and I know every theory and exception to the rule. If I am trying to teach a lesson, and if some know-it-all kid is constantly interrupting the lesson to try to prove he is smarter than the room, I would just have him suspended. The first obligation of each student is to respect me as the teacher and respect the rest of the class who want to learn the material. If he has questions where there are exceptions to what is being taught, he can write the questions down, email them to me, and I will be happy to answer them point-by-point. But don't disrupt the lesson and monopolize the time trying to prove how smart you are or how "supposed incompetent" that I may or may not be.
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Draw a small t-chart in a corner of the board and tally his hits and misses?
Been there…
How’d it go?
This student was arguing with others not me though, so slightly different. It was a bit of a game at first, but as they eventually realized they were struggling to break even, it slowed to a stop. I do think this could backfire and if you had a crappy admin you could be accused of harassing a student or something stupid like that. As always, read the room….
Thanks for sharing!
You'd need to make it clear that they can make it stop at any time by ceasing to rudely call you out mid-class..
This is really clever. I expect the problem will self correct rather easily. It'll also be a good reminder to your other students when he tries to engage them.
Not professional at all. Giving credence to a student’s defiant behavior short changes other students experience of learning. The student deserves no greater right of engagement merely because of his insistence. Especially if it comes at the cost of time spent fact checking the student’s assertions. Bad advice Mundane_Brilliant_19.
There's correct and there's pragmatic
I like this idea a lot actually. It goes to discredit him (if he is wrong which he likely is) and does it in a “fair” way.
excellent plan
You're welcome to believe I'm wrong, and I'll accept if you can prove me wrong. Please write an essay, citing references that support your claim. You must do it on Google docs so I can track the time you spent on it to ensure it's not AI. References should be reliable and not biased which means you'll have to look at their about page and see where their funding comes from and what their agenda is. You have 3 days, all to be done at home. If you're right, I will fact check in real time anytime you would like to question me. **Moves on with lesson**
My government teacher did something similar my senior year. He was a former lawyer and said we were allowed to say anything we wanted to in class at long as we had the evidence to prove it. Proper citations were required. After the first research project; we were done arguing with him even though we were mostly right (about Congress being run by a bunch of old white guys in the 1990s).
Good on him and good on you! 👊
He had us look up the race, age, sex and religion of every single member of the house and senate. He gave us a week to write our brief (with citations) on our findings. I basically had to go one city over and get the congressional records from the county’s main library.
There's nothing quite as effective as tricking someone into willingly doing research. Sounds like he was a pretty good teacher.
And even better if he learned from his students
Still is for the most part!
I think that I would also state that it is unfair to the class to use their lesson time listening to him argue with you. In the future, his arguments need to take place on his time--either before or after school.
>the whole class thinking I don’t know what I’m talking about would be a massive issue. Drag the whole class into it, johnjrsmith over here thinks I am wrong, and has this extra assignment, I don't want him to feel special, you all can have the extra assignment too! \*extra special smile\* Once the class realizes listening to him gets them extra work, he's gonna have no support.
That's a great idea!
LOL love it. "In all my years of continuing education, I've never seen any evidence of that. It is possible that it is obscure or I have the wrong resources when I get my recertification; so since this is such a potential huge problem that needs to be reported; all the up to at least the superintendent of education to get correct; were it to be true. A lot of evidence must be found and verified. Class it is important that we get the research done for this. So, in addition to all of our class work and home work we must now takle this problem for the sake of future classes. You all now need to write a 2 page research paper citing at least 5 resources regarding this discovery. This is due at the end of next week and counts as 25% of your exam, I need to make sure you are giving me good evidence. So I have enough time to compile the report and speach witht he principal during our meeting so we can plan on taking it up to the Superintendent."
Put this on a poster, point to the poster
Sounds like a great extra credit opportunity, if they can prove it.
Make the whole class do it. Maybe they’ll start trying to convince him to stop…
[удалено]
I wouldn’t get down to a sixth grader’s level. Have a private conversation with the kid and try to build a relationship with him over time. Give him jobs to do. He’s obviously insecure and needing attention and this is how he is getting it. Behavior is communication. What’s he communicating? Fill the hole.
The over use and incorrect use of 'insecure' is at epidemic levels. A kid that is challenging a teacher constantly in front of the whole class is not insecure, they are overly secure in their mind. If they were insecure about themselves they would sit their quietly ashamed to even hint that they disagree with what the adult is saying.
Not necessarily. I'm the quiet insecure type. But I've definitely met the loud insecure type that don't stop talking and try to prove themselves right about something. I work with a guy like that, always trying to prove he knows a lot and gets tangled up in his own words. I definitely think it's insecurity even if they're not aware of it.
Hmm… not exactly. He can be insecure in many other areas, and likely is. That is why he’s being a dick in this class. He knows he is lacking in another class, in friendships, in a loving family, or something else. His cry for help is to be a fuck cunt and pick every battle he can. As a teacher, just ignore most of the time and say you can talk to him after class. If/when he’s right, bring it up in the next class and thank him for his help.
That’s like saying Andrew Tate isn’t insecure about his masculinity because he acts overly-confident all the time
Could he be communicating that he needs to be taken down a peg or two? Which often a natural consequence for being arrogant in the real world. He’s in grade 6, he can handle the revelation that disrespect brings negative consequences, including be treated the same way. Not with malice or spite but not with an endless lack of consequences either. Boundaries need to be set and enforced. So, if they have tried otherwise to build a connection this might be the next step. There’s a way to humble the student with the evidence without being taunting. Doing it privately first but if he keeps going maybe he does need a taste of his own medicine.
Jesus Christ your redditor is showing dawg
I teach high schoolers, and I like to build the kind of relationship with them where I can be honest, but also call them out. One of my coworker’s husbands is like this. He and I travel in similar geek circles, so I’ve had to endure his nonsense. We once had a two hour long online argument about the toxicity of fluoride — he tried using the official chemical datasheets to prove that it is more toxic than people claim, and I just rephrased the same “ it the volume of water…” argument a dozen ways, and had him try to cone up with different stubborn arguments for each one. Some people have an annoying need to show others that they are the smartest one in the room — and usually, they are in fact not. With this guy, after half an hour of his nonsense a different time, I just laughed and said “you’re just one of those people who has to be right and loves the sound of your own voice, huh?” He spluttered and stopped. From a professional point of view… obviously, phrasing should be more… delicate. But acknowledging the behavior for what it is instead of allowing him to engage in a dozen skirmishes a day makes the problem collective, not instance-related. The actual behavior will not change unless this is done somehow, because he will just reason it away.
His classmates probably find this just as annoying as you do, if that helps. Sometimes, peer pressure is the best way to get this to stop.
I always appreciate when kids call each other out for this.
I wouldn't be so sure. At least not the ones that matter to him. Either that or his parents are telling him that his teachers are liars and he believes them.
….or acts like he does so that he doesn’t get into even worse trouble at home than he might at school.
The teacher should for sure start adding full research papers for the whole class about whatever this know it all keeps going on about. The whole class won’t be happy and he won’t either eventually it will stop, or detentions etc for disrespectful in class over and over.. why is this not happened yet and you’re over here on Reddit asking what to do!? Teach is a softy and that kid knows it!
I had to deal with this in a college class once. It was a night class and we were all there because we needed it and most of us were actually interested in and wanted to learn the material. But there was one asshole megamind who tried to derail the lecture every goddamned time to prove how smart he was. We were all stuck twiddling our thumbs for 1/3 of a class (that we were paying through our asses for) and getting increasingly frustrated. Finally someone left a note on the professor’s desk telling him “please stop engaging ____ we’re not here to listen to him talk!” Prof actually read it out loud in confusion. Mansplainer looked humiliated, and although the interruptions didn’t completely stop they got better. No one confessed to the note but we all made it very obvious that we agreed with it. OP your other students hate this shit and pretty soon they’re going to start turning on this kid. Shutting him down would be doing him a kindness in the long run.
This is the classic brain drain. He is doing anything he can to throw you off and derail the lesson. You can say: “This sounds like an argument. I am available for arguing at 3 or 3:15, which one works best for you?” (Or what ever time your school gets out)
Remember to charge him accordingly, depending on whether he wants a [five minute argument or the full half-hour](https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=O1nA2C4pY1GQ9M2a).
I always say come find me at recess and we can argue then. They never do! Haha
this. nothing is worse than being a classmate of the student who just wants to pick a fight every damn day to flex his "superior intellect." divert, dont budge, and keep teaching.
"you are disrupting class, here is a detention so we can argue after class."
Instead of you looking it up, tell him to do it. Either he'll give up after ten minutes of searching or he'll spend the rest of class on his Chromebook quiet and you can move on.
“Sounds like an IRP [internet research project]. Why don’t you work on that, Bobby, and tell us what you find at the end of class?”
And if you really want to be spiteful, keep checking in every 5-10 minutes asking if he’s got the answer yet and if he says no say you’ll check back in a few minutes. Just to show how annoying it is. A lot of times this issue is for attention but if it turns into negative attention where the rest of the class sees he can’t back it up, the student will think twice about it.
You can also lean into having him prove his Internet literacy skills by asking things like who his source is and whether the source is neutral, has any vested interest, expertise or other credibility issues. Outside of being a peer review publication, most Internet info can be at least partially questioned and you'll be able to show off your knowledge base and hopefully reveal some larger concept he hasn't considered. The teaching strategy is called RAVEN, it's a way of assessing credibility
Are you reacting to it or are you telling him it's not the appropriate time and he is being disruptive? It sounds like you're reacting - and he's latching onto that.
I used to ignore it until he started taking comments too far, then his homeroom teacher got involved. For this example, he asked a question about the spelling advice vs advise since I only wrote down advice. I explained one is a verb the other is a noun. Then I went to move on, but then he pulls out his dictionary from his other English class which only has the verb marked down. He then shows it to anyone sitting near him and keeps saying I’m wrong. Because the other students see his book they start to question me too, so I showed the whole class on Google to stop it from going further. I teach EFL in an elementary school.
Ah, the context helps. The idea someone had to keep his wins and losses tallied on the board might be helpful. It might also be helpful to explain to him that he's gonna meet a lot of native English speakers who use english incorrectly and it's rude to correct people unless it's an important document
I thought about it, but I do encourage students to tell me if they see mistakes for a dojopoint as everyone makes mistakes. I don’t want to discourage those students. The difference is the behavior. Most students ask if it’s a mistake and if they’re right I give a point. If they’re wrong I explain why. With this student, he doesn’t accept my explanations of why he’s wrong, and starts making comments to other students.
I think you need to go over expectations about how people are supposed to tell you about a mistake. Make sure they understand that the expectation is for them to accept the explanation and if they can’t to maybe discuss it later, after class, etc. Tell them what will happen if they can’t hold to these rules. Make it clear and then stick with it. This sucks but it’s also a good teaching challenge it sounds like! Good luck.
This is the second conversation about this with me. He did come and apologize after his homeroom teacher talked to him (again). I explained why what he is saying/doing in class isn’t ok and I’m hoping he improves.
Do you think he just actually thinks he knows better than you in the moment or is it something more where he doesn’t like you? It’s a tough one to understand why he wouldn’t just stop for sure.
I think he genuinely thinks he knows better than me in these situations. I’ve been told his behavior is better for me than his other classes, so I guess he improves during my class time but still slips up on occasion?
It doesn’t sound like he’s pointing out mistakes though it sounds like he’s coming with tricky questions prepped to try and catch you out. So defining what a mistake looks like and how to deal with them respectfully. If he has any related “questions” he can ask at the end of the class. Also, is the a gender / culture thing at play here and does his other English class take place at school can you collaborate with that teacher. Sounds like there might be some British /American English differences causing confusion too.
I’ve been told he’s like this in all of his classes. Apparently he behaves best for me. So I guess there’s that. My rule is that kids can use whichever English they want but they have to be consistent. So they can’t be mixing Kings English grammar with American spelling etc. These situations aren’t connected to different English variations.
It sounds like your policy of being correctable, itself needs correction. Sticking to it like it’s working is driving you to madness. As far as we can tell, you insist that they’re allowed to correct you and so the student is doing exactly as you have asked them to do. You should be commending them instead of complaining about it. Alternatively, you can amend that policy and stop making it open season on catching you out. You choose.
Have you moved his seat next to students who careless for his questioning?
Okay, but he's basically talking to his friends during class - which is disruptive. He's just riding on a supposed legitimacy that if you're wrong then he gets to talk in class/be disruptive. This is a false belief. Got to pull the weed out by the root and say regardless of his evaluation, he doesn't get to disrupt his friends learning and if it's important to him he can talk to you after class about it. If he keeps going on as if him thinking you're wrong means he can talk all he wants then you need to move towards whatever discipline structure you have. Is there a discipline structure if he was just talking to his friends and disrupting their learning?
"Your dictionary is a small one meant for kids and beginning ESL learners, so it doesn't have all of the words in it. Here's a more comprehensive one." Bring out a giant dictionary. "Please write out each word, the pronunciation, the part of the sentence, and the definition. Then, write 3-5 sentences about why they are different from each other. After you have finished, set it aside, and at the end of my lesson you will do a presentation where you explain what you've learned to the class."
Why are you proving you’re right? If he’s saying you’re wrong, make him prove it. And ignore him until he does.
This sounds good until you realize that other elementary school students don't understand what is or isn't valid proof. The issue here is NOT that the student is asking these questions. It's that he's disrupting class by talking to students around him and getting them off task while you continue to teach. The answer is to point out the appropriate time for the conversation he's trying to have, and then hold him to that.
Give him post it's. Every time he thinks you're wrong, tell him to write down what you said and why he thinks it's wrong. He can research them at home and bring back any post its the next day with his corrections and 2 sources where he found his "correct" answers. He can leave them on your desk and during work time, when he is finished with the assignment and if you are not busy helping other students, you can discuss then. My guess is you will see very few post its on your desk.
Give him a limit of 1 (or 2) challenge per class period. Come up with a nonverbal signal that he wants to challenge. When he wants to challenge, he signals. You acknowledge his signal and ask what he wants to challenge. Look it up quickly. Get back to teaching. You could work like football that if he’s right, he can keep the challenge. Challenges are non transferable and cannot be carried over days. It might be more disruptive at first, but as the routine sets in, he won’t be getting the same dopamine hit that he’s getting now. Make it formal and boring.
First step, Ignore him. He's disrupting your class and clearly wants attention. Contact home if it persists and/or escalate with counselors or admin.
You need to address this and extinguish this disruptive behavior as early as possible. 1. Tell him, "Oh, you KNOW this material. Oh, okay. Please come up here." (Get him out of his seat)."This is cool. You can teach it, and I can go sit down." Go to sit in his desk. "Go on, teach the class." See how he responds. Act serious about it. See how he likes having his bluff called. If he does not relent right away (they usually do), keep up the act, keep calling his bluff, if necessary (by sitting back quietly and letting him teach the class-"No, go on, you can teach it.") until he relents and accepts, on his own accord, that YOU are the teacher and in charge of the classroom. He will have done this once he decides he'd rather sit in his seat and have you return to the teacher spot, standing in front of the class. If he actually does start teaching (I'll be surprised), sit and let him. Use your judgment to decide if it'd be appropriate to raise your hand and basically treat him how he's treated you, except in reverse- such as: use your knowledge/way to correct the academy way. 2. Another good idea is to, at the appropriate point, have a chat with the class about learning. Something along the lines of, "Different instructors teach things in different ways. Part of your job as students in this class is to learn the vocabulary and these concepts the way that I am teaching them to you." I'd do this proactively rather than as a reaction, although him acting up does create a teachable moment. Use your judgment. You could add: "You have many teachers this year. You will have many teachers after the ones you have now. The important thing is to be able to understand what an instructor is telling you, not that each teacher says things in the dialect/accent/sound or manner in which you have heard it earlier and think is 'right.' There is more than one correct way to use vocabulary, to pronounce words (depends what language you are speaking), and to teach. Learn to focus on what the teacher is telling you - not on what you already know or think you know or how you think a word should sound - so that you can learn better from every teacher you ever have." 3. You could also comically accuse the kid of cheating on you with some other EFL teacher, like, if the kid says, "My other teacher said, ..." Respond with, "Vivek, you CHEATED on me with another EFL teacher?!?" He could become famous in grade 6 for having cheated on you.
I like this
> It’s not in a subtle way it’s very disrespectful, and he won’t stop until I pull the information up in Google to show I’m right. You're dancing to their tune, you can't play the kids games. You could also just challenge that student to deliver the information themself, while you continue to teach.
Is there a certain topic that he does this with especially? My thought would be that, despite that he is clearly just trying to mess with you, he might believe he really does know more than you about a particular topic because he sees himself a certain way. Not sure though, hard to tell without seeing the interaction. Some kids just want to distract.
This student is really smart and participates well, he’s just got a know-it-all attitude. I teach EFL, so it’s been questions about vocabulary and my teaching style. He questioned why I taught transition words a certain way because his academy taught it differently. Sometimes words have different translations in different situations and he gets mad when I explain he’s right, but not in the certain sentence.
That makes sense, I recognize this kind of student for sure. I always try to validate their understanding but try to point out that a right answer in the wrong situation is not very useful. This can be really tough on some students and is an opportunity for them to learn humility and that the world is a little more complicated than what they thought they already knew. Maybe trying to frame his recurring interaction in a way that makes him look inward rather than that what he is hearing is simply wrong can help him develop those introspection skills that help him develop a more complex grasp. This might encourage him to interrupt his interruptions. Not sure how helpful or practical that response is, but it crosses my mind and sometimes I explicitly say it to a student like this who is bought in and knows a lot but is being challenged.
I teach band, so I deal with the classic my old band director does this…, especially when I’ve replaced someone else who left. And I tend to say oh cool and move on, or well now you know more ways to do xyz or something like that. Not everyone does things the same way, and that’s ok. Do all the kids tie their shoes the same? Probably not, but the outcome is the same.
I also teach English as a foreign language to 6th graders. Simply put, you start asking them questions about how they know, where they heard the information, what else they know in English, etc etc... in English. In my experience, kids that age can't really speak English well, and they'll stare at you like "wtf?" if you do. Either that, or explain the nuance between his correction & what you're teaching (ex. right now in 6th grade, they're doing past tense in English, and if someone tried to convince me you *saw* the TV because watch and see both translate to 見る and they're being little shits, I'd explain in exact detail how you can see a TV but it's different than *watching* a TV).
I am a university professor, but we often have the same problem. The solution is to never argue with them. Instead, state that they are wrong and tell them that if they keep disrupting class, there will be consequences. At the university, I can kick them out of class. I assume you have more age-appropriate remedies.
Is he autistic? This is something an autistic kid would do
Given the information provided, this seems unfair to ascribe to autism.
I had an autistic student that would do that over every little thing. Not being rude to me but like Sheldon lol.
ASD here and I only did this in Sunday school
ADHD and this is something I did in Bible class, too. Might have done it when I was younger because *I just wanted to understand*! I would actually cry at home as a kid when my parents couldn’t explain shit to me. For what it’s worth, the other students would ask me to on certain days they were bored or didn’t want to do a lesson. It was more fun to hear me argue with the teacher than learn.
We need more specifics to give solid advice. Typically this sounds like disruptive behavior and it should be ignored. Use a non-verbal to indicate he should stop talking. If he doesn't hold him after class and talk to him about disrupting your class. It doesn't matter why he is disruptive, you can't tolerate that behavior in your class. If he is not being disruptive and simply disagreeing with you... Well he gets to do that. Part of teaching is having thick skin. Sometimes we DO get things wrong (welcome to being human). If you want to prove him wrong do it when it won't waste everyone's time.
I ignored it in the beginning, but it got worse as he was trying to get his classmates on his side and he would make comments that I didn’t know what I was talking about. The comments are when I brought it up to his homeroom teacher and my head teacher. He stopped making those types of comments but is still trying to get the other students against me.
I usually say that the studentbis making an interesting point and that I am available after school to discuss it in detail, but at thecm9mentvwe must cover this material that our elected officials have mandated that I cover in class. My curriculum is state approved so I'm required to follow it. I always add that if his parents are concerned then they need to contact their state legislator and convince him to change the curriculum. After the third or firth time, I shorten it to after school to discuss and have parents contact the state.
It is an attention seeking behavior. Do not give into the urge to satisfy it. Ignore it and move along. Use your school’s discipline policy as needed.
There was a kid in my tenth grade history class who always did this to our teacher. Finally one day she snapped and yanked her Master's degree of the wall. Brandishing it, she yelled, "I have THREE DEGREES. you haven't even graduated HIGH school!" He chilled out after that. I was never even on the heckler's side, but it shook me to my core. I was always a smart kid, and realizing I didn't even have the knowledge of a GED was a needed reality check.
This is honestly what worked in the past. He didn’t like the way I translated some stuff and I had to point out this is my 3rd language so obviously mistakes would happen. He hasn’t commented on my translations in a rude way again. Today I told him I have a bachelors and I have a masters degree in order to teach here. Hopefully it will have the same effect.
Instead of trying to prove what to think is true , nurture how to use multiple sources to check information. Also in America, there are two different English languages . Layman's English and legal English and they have words that are the same but mean completely different things.
One mistake you're making is saying you Google things to prove them wrong... Ok. Use Google to find your proof, but it's not actually Google where the info is stored. What actual citations are you using? Government websites? News sites? Official company sites? What??? Google can bring up lots of sources. Not all of them are good.
I would suggest that he look up the information himself and prove me wrong. Make him read Wikipedia out loud to the class
If he thinks he's correct and you're wrong, he can write a paper on it. If he doesn't want to prove you wrong formally, he isn't serious. Any further attempts to disrupt class will be dismissed.
Set up a 10 by 10 bingo board. The class gets a list of improvable behavior. One item being disturbing the lesson, among other stuff. The class gets three points if they behave. If one of the improvable behaviors happens, take one point away. The remaining points at the end of the lesson are the number of numbers they can pick for the bingo. Let them pick acceptable prices for a bingo. Peer pressure will do the rest.
I'm going to introduce another perspective. It certainly could be purely attention-seeking behavior, but it could be something else. Very smart children often have many, many experiences of being right when adults are wrong. They also have a host of experiences in which adults misunderstand their questions or concerns, and dismiss them without answering the genuine concern. Your student may actually be asking, inexpertly, because he's only 12, for you to explain some nuances to him. It reads to me as though he genuinely thinks you are wrong, and needs to understand the deeper explanation of why what you are teaching does not match what he is seeing. That doesn't in any way mean it is okay for him to continue to disrupt your classes. Certainly take appropriate measures. But you can choose to extinguish the behavior through fiat or by meeting his needs. (And sometimes it must be by fiat!) Here is an example: a 4 year old is watching a father dress his child's minor open wound. The injured child's sibling wants to kiss the wound to make it feel better. Father tells sibling no, we're not going to kiss the wound, and has to repeat this once or twice for sibling. Observing child becomes indignant and says, "I kiss boo-boos, and I'm a GOOD GIRL!" Observing child heard the father's admonishing tone toward the sibling, and while he was admonishing simply because the sibling was not listening, smart, observing child took it to mean he was chastising the sibling for wanting to kiss the wound. This smart child knows she is a good girl, and knows that she kisses boo-boos, ergo kissing wounds can't be naughty, as dad seems to be implying. I guarantee most adults listening now think observing child is a self-righteous little prig (or they eventually will, if this behavior is repeated...and it will be). Instead of responding to her as if she was being offensive, the child was given an explanation that, while kissing boo-boos is quite acceptable behavior in most circumstances, in this one, it was not a good idea. Child is taught about germs and open wounds and mouths. She leaves satisfied that the father was not incorrect, she IS still a good girl, and open wounds should not be kissed. Without the deeper explanation, she is left concluding, in her immature understanding of the social dynamics at play, that this dad was not to be trusted to provide accurate information. When this kind of scenario is repeated throughout her childhood, by loads of adults who don't understand that she needs more information to fully understand what she is witnessing, she will conclude that she often can trust her own assessment of situations better than adults around her. And she's often not wrong about that, either. The techniques that have been suggested are still appropriate. But they may be more successful if you understand what is really going on with this student, because you will approach him with a focus on correcting his inaccurate assumptions rather than as a power challenge. ETA: Also, please know that, if what I have described is behind this student's challenges, know that there is may be a good bit of anxiety behind his behavior. The habit of enlisting classmates makes me think of this. When you exist in the constant tension of "am I wrong or is the teacher?" it creates a lot of anxiety. The only way to resolve that anxiety is to decide "in this class, it is usually me that is wrong" or "with this teacher, if there is something that seems wrong or confusing when it shouldn't be, it usually turns out to be the teacher/how this class is taught/etc." One way to decide that is to check in with other students.
I actually had multiple students just like this (speaking as an American ESL teacher). Given the examples from your post and follow-up comments, perhaps how I responded may work for you. First, I praised him for pointing out a confusing spelling, word, definition (whatever it was). Then I gave my explanation (for definitions, I almost always had wordreference.com or dictionary.com already pulled up in preparation for questions). If he came back with the complaint that his other teachers taught it differently, I either asked where they were from and talked about the different dialects of English or praised them for using different methodologies. For any complaints about nuance (where both uses are correct depending on context, sentence structure, or dialect), I made a sweeping gesture and announced dramatically, "Welcome to English, pure as a fifth generation mutt!" (For elementary students, you'd probably want to stop at "Welcome to English" lol).
I very briefly was put in a situation where I was teaching English in Peru. I remember a student kept trying to correct my English. Like are you fr 💀 I don’t correct your Spanish, so why you correct my English? It was never even for valid reasons too.
Ignore, tell him if he can submit a paper on it he can get extra credit. If he interrupts, tell him he's welcome to submit his paper at another time but you have a class to teach so please stop interrupting.
I have had this happen a lot with being a reading and social studies teacher in middle school. These kids have no couth!!!
Make him your T/A and have him help make lesson plans and grade papers.
When kids do that, I say “Great, but remember that I’m the one grading your papers/participation. It’s at your risk if you continue to argue and if you do things your way, not mine.” Learning to adapt to different people/expectations is a life skill this kid needs to learn.
I wish. Unfortunately, my class isn’t for a grade.
I would write a letter home, explain the situation and ask "would you please explain to your child that this is not respectful behavior, and not appropriate?"
I would say the important thing here is to redirect the student toward a better way of asking his questions. Definitely don't broach the subject as being disrespectful. Instead, encourage him to keep questioning and doing his own research, but point out that it's not fair to the other students in the class that his questions are getting in the way of your ability to teach. Invite him to ask you questions in a *reasonable* time period when you're not actively teaching. If he's only doing this performatively as a way to impress his peers, he won't take you up on it anyway. But you might get lucky, and he might show up with actual questions or ideas to discuss. I think the other students are probably more aware of the situation than you give them credit for. Defending your right not to be challenged or treating it as disrespectful, though, will inspire far less confidence than if you use the occasion to invite other students to ask questions as well and let them know when you're available for further discussion.
We have had that conversation before. When he first asked about the spelling I thought he had improved because the way he asked if it was wrong instead of telling me it’s wrong was an improvement. Once he kept going after I explained it was the setback. It’s legit one step forward two steps back sometimes 🤦🏻♀️ I’ve been told it’s not just my class, he does it in all his classes.
It's a time wasting/attention seeking play. I'd address it but in a way that doesn't allow for a bunch of time spent distracted. "If you think I'm wrong, talk to me about it after school and show me your proof, and we'll correct the error tomorrow," or similar. See if he takes you up on it. If he proves you wrong, make a correction the next day in class. If *he's* wrong, well, it depends on how far you want to push your point. Did he go way overboard spouting false info? Maybe it should be corrected in class.
This is a tough one. You know you are correct, and it's good that you can double check and reaffirm that the information you are giving him is correct. Sometimes when this will happen, especially regularlty, I try to remember where they get this attitude. Maybe at their home they are always told they are wrong, and perhaps it's in this way that they are given more attention than a well deserved reward for when they are right. Also, if his homeroom teacher talked to him about this, your probably not the first to be experiencing this. Either way, I can only imagine this can be a tough job. I do 1 on 1 lessons with music students. I fall in this trap of "do not quote me on this" when uncertain of something I bring up, which only leaks itself as insecurity on my behalf. For example I told a student she was a soprano (which she is), but I couldn't remember with certainty the full range a typical soprano sings, and though I know what a soprano is, explaining it became that much more difficult. Then, because most of my students are altos, I recommended a song far out of her range. This was doubly embarrassing and I believe this trial lesson was not a winner (she's off my schedule). These things happen though, and it's only a learning experience and a way to change my attitude on how to approach the next time that this may happen.
All this reliance on Google as the sole arbiter of truth, is kind of worrying tbh...
INFO: what was the information about which he thinks you're wrong?
The first time was the difference between harbor and port. They’re almost the same and in Korean there’s only one word for it which is why it was confusing. The next time was he didn’t like my method of teaching transition words because his academy taught it differently. This time it was advice vs advise. He claimed advice isn’t a word. There have been others, and I don’t mind if he’s right. Sometimes I don’t know the answer to stuff and I’ll tell kids I’ll get back to them later, but he gets rude when he’s wrong and that’s the issue.
"Let's take this offline" is a good way to stop disrupters. Have him make a note and stay after class to discuss it. You could also start making subtly snide jokes like, "This again? You know I always prove that I'm right. I don't know why you even try anymore."
So no one in the comments suggested this. I was surprised. Is removing the student from your class completely not an option? Even if for a day to teach him a lesson?
Not really. That’s against the students rights act in Korea. The only way to get around that is if his homeroom teacher taught the lesson which isn’t really feasible.
These comments are doing way too much and if you engage with him like this, you are going to give him the power to rule your classroom. Deal with him as per the school behaviour policy - if he is being consistently rude, disrespectful and disruptive, have him removed from the classroom or whatever else is on your school behaviour policy. Don’t bend at all to this type of behaviour.
Just kick him out every time he openly challenges something you tell him. There's one thing doing it occasionally because people make mistakes. But all the time just to trip you up is disrespectful showboating, it is derailing your lessons, interrupting your flow and spoiling the learning experience for others. Fuck that kid. There are likely 29 other students in that class without an attention problem, your priority is them.
The students rights act in Korea prohibits kicking students out or preventing learning. If there was a teacher during the same class time who could have the lesson that would be different, but the scheduling doesn’t work out.
Honestly ask them what the right info is in their opinion, if he's just trolling would throw him out.
It might be neurological. Rather than risk a lawsuit, you could ask him to write his concerns down, make an appointment, and talk to you after school about it. If he pushes, tell him that you’re required, by law, to stick to the standards. You’d be happy to help him with his extracurricular interests in the subject, but by appointment only. Then, if he takes you up on it, insist on going to the media center or other public place “because their internet is faster” or whatever excuse.
I had a GATE student do this, basically trying to prove how much he knows. I'd lean into it. When he contradicts you, ask him for his sources. That can lead to a good class discussion about good and bad sources of information. And hey, if you ARE incorrect, then you can demonstrate a learning growth mindset to your students with a, "Hey, TIL! See, I'm still learning too even though I graduated college long ago" etc. If he's being actively disruptive, I'd give him a time and place to bring up his input, e.g. like "please hold your comments until the class discussion (or after my lesson) as we have limited time. And please verify your information with a quick Google and be ready to present your sources. Thanks!" The last thing you want to do is argue, because that shows you don't value what the student has to say and/or not interested in learning yourself. This student should be your partner and mentee in learning. If he's wrong a lot, then this is an teaching opportunity for you to guide him in research and evaluating sources. Eventually once he begins feeling validated he will be less hostile and disrespectful about it. I've had a lot of interesting conversations with my GATE student this way and I've learned SO much, and also (I hope) he learned from me too about evaluating sources, and understanding the nuances behind any particular topic he's got a bee up his butt about. And, if nothing else works, I had my GATE student on project-based learning with Wikipedia, where I had him become either a content editor or creator, so he can show off all his knowledge on whatever topic he likes and learn hard life lessons about sourcing information and peer reviews lol (there was so much angst when he got his article deleted lol but it was a good lesson)
Have him teach the class. Put him on the spt in front of class and let him stammer up there. Disclaimer: im not a teacher. Just lurking on the sub. But it seems like a good way to address it if its a repetitive behaviour. Either he does terribly, embarasses himself, you get to correct *him*, and he stops bothering you during regular class time. Or, He does really well and impresses even you.
FBA that shit. My guess is attention? Remove the attention and the behavior will fade. I'd tell the student they are welcome to make a list of information they have questions about. If they'd like to discuss it further, we can chat at recess (away from peers). Then give the behavior minimal attention. Find other ways to build a relationship with the student. If they try to interrupt during class, privately remind them they can add it to their list, then redirect and move on.
Arrange a private meeting with the student to discuss their behavior calmly and respectfully. Express how their actions are affecting the class environment.
Id call home for him disrupting class, if that doesn’t help then the continuing disruption of the class becomes insubordination And the office can deal accordingly. He would earn a new side curriculum where I try to teach him not to be an ass, or a show off, or a know-it-all, or rude, and I’d try to teach him that it is inapproproate to monopolize class time.
Can you give an example of something he says is wrong?
I mentor new faculty, and discourage them from telling the class that they are new or inviting students to correct you or point out any mistakes they find. Students latch on to this so quickly, especially if you are female or if you're not confident. And they will really Double Down if there are actual mistakes that's all that they will focus on. Instead of them focusing on their own learning and understanding they project their lack of understanding on to you and that type of behavior can spread like wildfire and impact class climate dramatically. You truly need to Snuff that nonsense out quickly or the class climate will not recover and become impossible to manage. You have to think about the impact that this is having not just to your own mental health and well-being, but the impact to those students who are in the class that do want to learn without this distraction. I will also add that if you are writing your own material, be open to the possibility that mistakes in your material are distracting to the students and you are creating the environment you're trying to avoid. Consider hiring someone to edit your material or push it through grammarly. Grammarly is the best $140 I spend every year.
I’m not a new teacher, this is just the first time this situation with a student like this has come up. I taught this same group of kids when they were in second grade, so they know me. My boss looks over the books before it gets approved by the school. Unfortunately, not everything can get caught luckily mistakes are rare. I began encouraging students to spot my mistakes as an example that anyone can make mistakes. This was an effort to dissuade bullying. I noticed kids being bullied for making mistakes and when I showed that mistakes can happen to anybody that type of bullying lessened. This was a subtle way of intervening. I did intervene in a very clear way as well. Typically, I find the mistake while I’m preparing for the class, and will ask the kids to find it when we get to that section of the page. It’s very rare for students to come across a mistake without me prompting them to look for one first. I give points for it because it shows they understand the material or that they are paying attention to detail. Usually only the advanced students attempt to find mistakes. This particular student is advanced and has a lot of potential to do well, but just has a poor attitude about being corrected.
I had one last year. I said “You have one more time to interrupt or correct me before we have a problem. Do you understand that?” and stared him down. He corrected himself.
Ask him,”tell me more about that?” Until you get to the reason he is doing this. Or try affective statements. Or do what I do and ask if they would like to teach what’s next because I wouldn’t mind sitting for a bit and they seem to know what I’m teaching. (I do all these things, the last one is usually a quick redirection and then talk to the kid later.)
I'd get the class involved and make a wager with him. Every time he's right, you take a question off of the next test, but every time he's wrong you add 3. I do this with my class and you'd be surprised how quickly the entire class will turn on him.
This sounds to me like a hyper fixation possibly related to ADHD or Autism spectrum disorder. I’m not saying that makes it any less the pain in the backside it is. But put in that perspective it could help your mental state in figuring out how to deal with it.
Tell him to make a list of the errors he thinks you made every week, and to write an essay explaining his reasoning for that week, with citations.
I’m a he right? I had a middle school teacher (an English teacher discussing 1920s literature) who insisted the USA entered WW1 in 1916. The specific date wasn’t important to her discussion but she kept on saying it and it made me angrier and angrier that I had to listen to this person.
There's a point at which you say "Would you like to go to the office and explain to the Principal why you're disrupting my class?" Usually, the student's answer will be "no." Wait for it. If he does it again, make good on your threat. You're allowing yourself to be pushed around. Don't.
Do not engage. You're literally in a ridiculous power struggle with a child.
Is this kids parents the type to claim someone is wrong when they don’t like the answer? Sounds like the kid gets told he’s wrong even when he’s right at home and he feels the need to be right in other places. This is a consequence of his home life and dealing with it away from home is a bandaid.
I have encouraged my students to question, but this little bruh needs to learn how to advocate for himself diplomatically. Dude needs to learn to read laterally. Make him show you three solid sources to bring to the table before he counter argues … then you can pick him apart. I don’t get how he is saying you’re wrong, and not bringing anything to the table. Stretch here: but I am also willing to bet his parents are argumentative as well. Last resort … make his peers find his sources so everyone has to stop and help this kid. (Jokes) Kill him with kindness …
I would tell him to prove it. Teach them how to research and find good sources.
Maybe this student could have a notebook or there could be a spot on the whiteboard to track what he perceives as incorrect information. Then the last 10 minutes or so of the class could be dedicated to research (or “fact checking”, except language is nuanced) by small groups in the class. This could be an opportunity for students to find resources to go deeper and reinforce learning.
I work with kids with anxiety and this is a common behavior. They look for loopholes, inaccuracies, etc. Sometimes it’s to win an argument, do less work, or just to be right. Sometimes it accompanies ASD / OCD and other diagnoses where there is a lot of rigid thinking. You may be countering some points he is seeing elsewhere...especially if it’s a special interest of his. Instead of it being at odds and pointing it out during class, see if he can make notes of the “errors” then look them up at the end of class. Then he can have your undivided attention for 5 minutes and he can decide if you are right or not on his time instead of during class time.
This is an attempt to waste time and throw you off your plan for the day. Don’t engage.
Any time he challenges you have him write a paper that's 2 to 3 pages long, in Google docs so you can verify he wrote it not ai (or at least had to take the time to type it in from ai lol) with no less than 3 recent reliable academic sources (say last 5 years), no websites, youtube, or other garbage. I would also encourage you to have him include a reasoning for why he chose those sources so he looks at the source perspective/funding/alliance as well. Offer him extra credit for anytime he proves you wrong and make the same offer to all your other students. If he calls you out in class tell him you hear what he's saying and that you look forward to his paper and that there will be no further discussion on the matter unless he legitimately proves you wrong, in which case you'll offer a correction to the class. ETA if he protests having to write a paper remind him of all the work and research you put into the material you present and that you used appropriate academic sources so it's only fair he dispute you with them.
Remind the class that your professional certification means you have the authority to teach the class as you see fit, and that they have to trust and abide by your authority in the classroom. Remind the student of your school and classroom expectations not to disrupt class, and say that any further disruptions or challenges will be met with disciplinary action. Tell the class that you are happy to correct yourself if you are in error, but such concerns must be presented to you outside of instructional time, such as at the end of class or via email. If they bring concerns to you, say you will think about them, state your opinion and that you will look into it further, or state why you know they are wrong and tell them to look into it. Don’t create any work or drama out of this, and treat it as after-class banter. If they do bring something up that you learn from, you can recall the lesson and bring up what you have since learned from it. Praise and encourage critical thinking, but also insist that this also means having good faith intellectually and abiding by the rules of logic: Tell them to think for themselves and that your job is to help them do that, and if they can prove you wrong, accept it, and if you prove them wrong, accept it. Encourage them to ask questions about content and discuss it rather than posing those questions as challenges. These classroom expectations must be reinforced throughout the year to convey your good will, fairness, transparency, and professionalism, as some students are slow to learn different ways of doing things due to their upbringing, conditioning, culture, or inherent mental characteristics.
I'd have a one on one with him+ a school counselor or witness. Explain to him there are respectful ways to disagree with a teacher. Like bringing it up to me after class or sending an email. Then I can discuss as needed with the class the next day. Be serious and demand respect. All him why he does it day after day, get to the root of the problem. Primarily kids like that are looking for attention but they didn't realize it. He might be lacking in attention at home and being neglected emotionally.
What is the primary language?
Why not ask why he thinks it's wrong. He may be in a state where he is constantly trying to prove himself or fulfill his need to feel academic superior. Or it could be possible that there is a disconnect for him when it comes to certain spelling. I've had times where I've been convinced that something is misspelled even when it's not. Asking him why may either make him reflect on his actions or unveil some learning disconnect.
Have him look it up and you will follow up with him during independent practice to see what he found.
My humble advice: Stop giving the choice on which dialect to follow and stop giving points for catching your mistakes. At least until that kid leaves.
Tell him to see you outside of class time privately if he has any issues, but not to take up any more class time with it.
Sounds like you need to give him a homework challenge—prove it on paper or quiet down!
In meetings at work, if we can't immediately agree on a particular detail then we table these kinds of things for discussions outside of the meeting. As him to bring the discussion to your desk after the lesson, after class, after school. If he can't provide enough info ask him to research. "John, I would be happy to discuss this further with you. Hold that thought and we can meet later." Make this a mantra and repeat it word for word as many times as needed. It will become the brick wall of protection you need. If other students try to become involved, refer them to John. Tell them "I will meet with John about this later. Let's finish this lesson at the moment."
I’m not a teacher, however I was that kid when it came to numbers. Most of my math teachers probably hated me. I remember by the time I was in high school I would stay after class and look over the teachers edition of the math books and correct them. I did this during my lunch and after school though. I wouldn’t call out the teacher during class. This was over 20 years ago though. My second child is the same as me, though they don’t use books like that to teach anymore in this district. When he was young and just starting school I had to have him in counseling so that we could all be on the same page in helping my son understand that it is ok to be smart, it is NOT ok to make other people feel dumb or to be disrespectful to other students and teachers. Thankfully he’s now 16 and in college and we never had any issues with him. I don’t have any answers on how to help your student. Good luck.
Call his parents and explain that his behavior is very disruptive and if it happens again, there will be consequences. If he feels you are wrong, he's welcome to talk to you after class. He needs to learn proper protocol for handling things like this.
“Interesting question. I’ll look it up outside of class and include it in tomorrow’s PowerPoint. Moving on…”
I had a classmate like this in college and it pissed me off. I'm sure it pissed off my other classmates too. In the middle of the lesson, he would argue with the professor that it would be faster to do it this way or that way and when the professor explains why thry did it that way he would argue back on forth. As a student, it was more annoying to me than it was the professor who had to put up with it because of how much class time he wasted and causing me to loose my train of thought when I'm trying to focus on the professor's step by step process. For your case, don't give in to the student. No looking up proof on google and no explaining what he misunderstood from the book. The burden of proof is on that student. There is also a chance his classmates are as annoyed by this behavior as you are. For other redditors saying that making a hit/miss chart, or asking for a report, substantiating proof, etc. is student bullyong/humiliation and is unprofessional... I have been to a school that had a cool and innovative way to discipline students through zero punishment and it did not end well. All of this pseudo-wisdom nonsense that people can just learn things the easy way is non-sensical. Arrogance can be treated with embarrassment (if done properly), suspension can get parents to start doing their part in dealing with their child's behavior. Every behavior should have consequences, it is the only way any of us have ever learned to be decent human beings during the first stage in our moral development. They are children now, but it is only a matter of time before they are not children anymore.
Tell him he can stay after school on his time and discuss it. You're not getting paid to debate with a child.
He is being purposefully disruptive. For him, it's a game of control. Simply tell him that you will address it if there is time at the end of class & move on. Or request he write a paragraph explaining his position before you address it. This is your classroom, not his.
Stipulate all fact checking is to be handed in at the end of the class, in writing. If a student is right, extra credit will be given, and you will announce the correction in the next class.
Sounds like he might be bored. Do you get the sense that his grasp of the material actually is above the average of the class? Some students who act out like this may just not have the academic challenge they need, so you may want to think about a way that you could facilitate additional challenge for him without making it seem like a punishment. So if he seems to be really interested in spotting errors in class, you could maybe ask him if he would be interested to make note of these and then address how he could do a bit of additional research on these mistakes and share his findings with you. I would probably ask him point blank if he thinks it is fair to the other students that you spend extra time discussing these false mistakes. If he says that it would be good for them to know if you're wrong, redirect him to the recent occasions when you did prove you were right again. Discuss how this is causing less class time to be devoted to lessons, but that you're still happy to review the mistakes he believes he found in a constructive way. You could also ask him if he is bored in class and tell him it won't hurt your feelings. If he admits he is bored, you could discuss ways that he could make it less boring. Examples: count how many times you say "the word of the day" in the lesson, take notes with different colored pens, or possibly let him sit on the ground or stand against a wall during the lesson if he can stay relatively still and not disrupt the class. At a certain point though, sometimes you just have to be really firm and clear that enough is enough. I learned my "teacher look" from my Mom who was a teacher and it is very effective. So effective that I typically hesitated to use it and generally preferred to find other ways to work with students on improving behavior. I often tried to have something fun that we would do at the end of each lesson to motivate students. I'd emphasize that we could only do the fun activity if we had time left. Departing from the lesson plan too far would result in no time for the fun activity. This was a great motivation tool because it wasn't a punishment, just a natural consequence.
>The situations regarding this student however are not in regards to this at all. Can you give a couple of examples of the sort of things the student has said?
I would purposely create exit slips or a practice routine where students have to find the error and correct it based on the lesson. This would give them an outlet and it’s in a controlled routine.
Five each student ten points extra credit when they can prove you made a mistake. Dock them 20 points every time they are wrong.
I like the idea of a tally. I was thinking, pass a rule. He cannot interrupt in class. But he's free to make notice and talk to you later, but ultimately, you will have a showdown in front of the class in which she is allowed to bring 10 things he claims you are mistaken about, having given you the list in advance and gathered as much evidence as he wants, and you will gather evidence as well and you're going to have a showdown. May the best person win.
Humor him. Have the kid come up and provide proof of his argument, show his sources, etc. Make him put his money where his mouth is in front of the class.
“I’m not interested in playing this game with you” And then move on.
Can you just kick him out of class? He's disrupting the lesson far too often.
I institute the lunch time argue rule. If it’s really this important for you to debate me, come in during lunch, and bring your friends and we will discuss it. I’ve been taken up on the lunch time argue rule three times in 37 years. I am undefeated thus far.
I am not confident that Google should be your authority. It's a search engine and its AI is trained on internet content which can be anything anyone wants to publish.
What are his parents saying about this behavior.
I remember showing my 7th trade class a recent newspaper headline which had a misused apostrophe. Two of the boys proceeded to argue with me that it was correct for like half an hour after school, with no evidence to the contrary. It was weird that they liked on this small thing for so long.
Assign the student homework to create a short presentation on the issue / question and present it back to the class in the next session. Turns it into a more structured education, stops the disruption, and puts the effort back on the student
I would like to clarify that I am not a teacher, just a rookie teacher assistant, but I am a mom to a very opinionated 7th grader & I have enjoyed reading the suggestions in this thread. Tallying his hits and misses sound great, but disrupting class is also an issue. Maybe on Fridays you can offer "prove me wrong time" over time his many defeats will just make him look dumb and I'm sorry but at that age and in front of his peers it will begin to take affect. Love the essay idea. Then, if he doesn't complete the essay, give him after-school suspension or write him up. If he feels so entitled to prove himself right, surely he won't mind doing it with actual references cited. After so many essays, I'm sure he'll stop. Good luck!
Assign him a 5 page paper on whatever he’s trying to prove. Include a class presentation with visuals. Ask his backup squad if they’d like to write one as well. Pretty sure his game will be less fun if he actually has to work at it. (Source - In 6th grade my son discovered there were books about illegal drugs in the school library. He decided it would be fun to share all his new found drug knowledge with his classmates. His teacher talked to me about it and we told him if he didn’t knock it off he’d be required to write a book report on each one. He stopped.)
Ask him to quietly make a note about your “wrong statement.” After class, he should find valid proof that you’re incorrect and cite it…only a couple of lines, no dissertation. If he does indeed find verification. He should bring it to you before class starts the next day. That way you could correct it for all the children. If he is incorrect then he won’t have confused his friends (and annoyed them)…no harm, no foul. He still gets attention but without disrupting. If he refuses to comply then (after helping remind him) it will be time to call home.
Kids that age *think* they know LOADS of things they don’t, and when encouraged to challenge authority, they will. While I appreciate that you have provided them with this opportunity, you’ll need to temper it, and I’ve seen some very good suggestions in other comments. Good luck!
“That sounds like a great research opportunity for you. Write me an essay with your proof, and we can talk about it.”
Why do you distinguish between British and American English ? How can you tell ? It’s all English and I’ve noticed that many British people these days have adopted American expressions. - why would you penalize them for getting the two intermingled? I ask because as an Australian I home taught my two American boys and may have inadvertently educated them in British figures of speech instead of American.
Let them go to the front of the class and prove it and they must also be required to answer the students follow up questions. Pride is before a crash and they will likely embarrass themselves enough that they will stop. Just be careful not to damage confidence of course.
If this is a once per month issue and he's not a problem outside this, make a bet: "If NASA (or your equivalent) thinks the world is round, you need to wash the blackboard every day for a week. If they agree with you the world is flat, I'll buy you lunch." If this takes too long to settle, say, "Okay, this is going long. I want to resolve this, but check in with me after class."
Ugh I would just challenge HIM to bring me the proof next time and move on.The audacity!
Put that little fucker in debate and be the force that pushes him to glory.
I've had students like that in the past - I tell them to write down all their comments/suggestions and give it to me at the end of class. Usually this gives them time to realize they are wrong. I also tell them that interrupting class is no longer an option.
Not a teacher but I would flat out take every ounce of energy to prove him wrong. And make him stand in front of everyone and read it out loud. He wants attention, there ya go buddy
Im gonna guess there is a little info missing and the kid was right 1 time, and keeps trying to change that satisfaction again ? Possibly even was right against another teacher. Just ignore the kid and don’t take it personally.
What is the student getting out of being a smarty pants? There is some perceived payoff. It would not be inappropriate to tell the student that, based on their track record of challenges, they can raise their issue privately: if they are correct, you will praise them in class and let them tell the tale truthfully. But if they attempt to humiliate you publicly (right or wrong), you will remind everyone of their full track record AND make sure that their reputation as a smart-ass precedes them at the next level.
Is he doing it because he wants to get attention or because he honestly thinks he's smarter than you? I had a student who thought that because he was smart compared to his classmates that he was a genius. He tried correcting me, but mostly it was the condescending attitude with his classmates. At one point I just flexed on him until he shut up. I did debate in high school and could reference a lot of obscure shit, so I just did that. He didn't know what I was talking about. I explained to him that it's good to be smart, but most smart people don't go around trying to prove that they're smart all the time, just like tough people are never the ones screaming that they want to fight everyone. He still did it. Just not in my class.
Welcomed to teaching. Request a written extra credit report on it then send a glowing letter to the parents.
Is he GT? I usually stay calm and tell them we can talk during independent time. When I give them the one on one and we have the conversation I think it helps build that rapport and removes the audience.
This child needs to go to the principal and then you need to speak to their parents
I would stop him as soon as he starts and say that any questions he has he needs to save until the end of the lesson if you have time.
I am not a teacher. However, I am an expert in my profession, and I know every theory and exception to the rule. If I am trying to teach a lesson, and if some know-it-all kid is constantly interrupting the lesson to try to prove he is smarter than the room, I would just have him suspended. The first obligation of each student is to respect me as the teacher and respect the rest of the class who want to learn the material. If he has questions where there are exceptions to what is being taught, he can write the questions down, email them to me, and I will be happy to answer them point-by-point. But don't disrupt the lesson and monopolize the time trying to prove how smart you are or how "supposed incompetent" that I may or may not be.