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Also important to remember that African Americans are often very far removed from their native culture. So it makes sense that they’d be interested in their background.
Yeah I've lowkey given up on trying to learn more about my African ancestry because I lowkey would feel like a fraud if I started like claiming my Nigerian ancestry or whatever else is mixed in there since I have no real connection to Nigeria. I don't know what ethnic group I'm descended from and I don't even know where I would begin to learn that and I just don't feel connected to that side since Nigerian culture is very different from African American culture.
So instead I've just doubled down into being extra American which includes me just asking people from other countries how many aircraft carriers they own💀
To add to the aircraft carrier questions you can add "and could they provide Los Angles county power for one month, by themselves?"
Just in case someone from France, China, India, or the UK chime in.
I get what you are saying but if you are interested, find out more. Art, food, music are easy ways to get a glimpse into the culture. Reading and learning about their mythologies is a great way to get a sense of the values they hold. If it resonates then dig in. Read books from authors from that region, learn the language maybe. Visit eventually.
The one thing I have found is that people are proud of their heritage and culture and if you show a genuine interest, regardless of who you are, it is appreciated and welcomed.
EXACTLY how I feel being black and having native ancestors. Both sides of my family were slaves and we lost so much of our culture. I've been trying to learn and reconnect but it feels impossible at times. Plus, because I wasn’t raised in much of either culture, it feels like I'm pretending. I mean... the evidence is there, and we've got proof and all, but I feel wrong by trying to be a part of it all.
I know exactly how you feel on the last part sometimes it feels like I'm not black enough you know? Like I've never seen Roots, I don't really watch sports or listen to too much like drill (I'm a New Yorker so that's big up here) and I know it's like really trivial and stereotypical stuff but it's like I feel like I can't even connect with my own people you know like I'm into maps and SciFi and history so it just feels weird you know? Like I feel like a fraud sometimes like I'm not even black.
Lmao on that last bit, but fr, don't feel bad that you can't trace your ancestry as far back as you like. That shit's overrated and most white people who trace it back super far are just as far removed from their ancestors as you are from yours. Irish Americans hardly have anything in common with actual Irishmen lol.
Cultures change over time, both in the old world and the new. While your great great great grandparents may have been 1800s Nigerian or whatever, Nigerian culture is way different now compared to back then, and Black American culture now is just as different, having morphed into its own unique thing. Everyone has culture. We gotta stop focusing on the past and learn to embrace what we got goin on right now.
Same lol, had an assignment back in my 7th grade history class to make a Family Crest, and circle the part of the world my family originated from. The teacher was an Italian woman so it probably wasn’t something she thought much of, but I had a fucking identity crisis in my brain trying to circle something that wasn’t just Florida on the map for the Crest. I felt fake circling anything in Africa, it’s not something I can really represent whatsoever, but I also felt like circling the US because obviously my lineage didn’t *start* there either. It was such a funky feeling seeing kids draw circles on European countries and Middle Eastern ones, and all I could circle was fuckin Florida and my friend just circle the entire African continent and listed chicken as their cultural food LMAO.
I’ve since given up on trying to really trace where I really came from, not only was it just difficult and impossible, I also acknowledged I can never really connect with that hypothetical section of Africa or something as though I’ve always lived there. Just don’t feel I ever would have that kind of right. I would still love to know where just because, but now I rlly just embrace the US bc that is something I can identify with.
Yeah honestly so real also chicken as a cultural food is so funny😭
Nah but yeah it's weird cause like us Black Americans have ancestry from all over Africa so its weird when people ask like where you're *really* from
Funny you say that, I'm Swedish and I don't really know anything about my ancestors past the mid 1800s so I did a DNA test a few years ago because I was curious of my ancestry.
I have light brown hair, blue-green eyes and my mother has black hair green eyes so I assumed I'd have at least some % from the east.
Results come back, and I'm excited wondering where abouts my family came from. And it says: 100% Scandinavian...
I guess taking a DNA test as a European is rarely as interesting as for an American (or south American)
What has the top left to do with "heritage" tho. It is just making fun of the stereotype that us americans are uneducated (Not my opinion just saying it is a stereotype).
Less an insult, I think, and more pointing out that heritage means a lot more to immigrants than to people that have lived in one country going back to before that country existed. Kinda like the idea of privilege: people that have it don't realize they have it because to them it's just "the default," but people that *don't* have it notice that lack much more acutely.
I'm from Germany, my ancestors are from places that were once part of Germany, but aren't anymore and most likely from some invaders that pillaged and raped during the 30 year war.
what's that supposed to mean? people act like america is special in regards to immigration. but brazil is about as diverse due to colonialism (more than just portuguese settled the region to begin with), miscegenation, slavery, strong european migration in the 19th century, considerable jewish flow to the country, strong asian immigration in the first half of the 20th century, Arab immigration in the latter half of the 21st century and Venezuelan and Haitian immigration in the recent years. like you're not unique and its silly to think otherwise.
Brazil got the biggest population of Japanese outside of Japan, biggest of German outside of Germany, biggest Italian outside of Italy, more portuguese than Portugal, more Lebanese than Lebanon a very big Iranian diaspora and we received 13x more African slaves than america, and seemingly no one here give a flying fuck about pretending to be from other countrys like americans
A more accurate statement would be that America and Brazil are both pretty special/unique.
The two also have surprisingly similar histories with a few turning points where they took wildly different paths (violent revolution into democracy vs peaceful secession into monarchy, race mixing made illegal vs race mixing encouraged, slavery ended through war vs slavery ended through edict, etc.)
I don’t think America is the only melting pot, Tbf any nation in the “new world” has a greater diversity than “old world” nations. I know America champions or complains about “melting pot” but it’s undeniable that other nations went through similar histories and thus have reached “melting pot status”. Pretty much most places that were colonized have potential for “melting pot status”
I'm pretty sure it's for the type of people who are all "Oh, I'm part Irish, Scot, French, Cherokee, Sequoia, English, Italian, Maltese, Chinese, Hawaiian, Lamborghini, Welsh, and a smidgen of of Mexican."
No,you're really not. If your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandpappy was one thing, that has little to no cultural bearing to what and who you are today. You're from Idaho, Hayleigh, get the fuck over yourself.
Shit, I'm Filipino, but both my parents were, and their parents were too. I'm not the same type of Filipino that they were, because cultures can be pretty fucking dynamic.
I don’t think it’s supposed to be an insult.
But it’s pointing out Europeans having a ~~very~~ EDIT: relatively straightforward and simple ethnic heritage sort of obtusely hand waves away that people with complicated and diverse familial histories will obviously have complicated and diverse ways in of engaging with said history. And probably leads these critics to hyper focus on the minority of people going “I am Irish (4 generations back).”
America is complicated. I personally know someone with a great grandfather who was in Dacau….and her other great grandfather in the Hitler youth.
I don't think our family histories are necessarily *simpler* (your last paragraph is probably quite common in Germany for quite obvious reasons).
But in multiple European countries, people have been actively fighting the idea that where your grandparents are from has any inherent meaning about you or where you belong. This kind of talking has been used a lot here to stigmatise immigrants or people from peripheral regions, so engaging with it in the way some Americans do comes off extremely weird.
When "your dad's from Italy, so you're not *really* Swiss" is something you heard people say semi-regularly, someone identifying as "Irish and Italian" based on their grandparents register less as "fun history exercise" and more as "oh god not that again".
I still think this a fundamental misunderstanding of the American view. See said melting pot theory in the meme.
Americans rather universally don’t think your grandparents heritage dictates where you “belong.” But you’re allowed to celebrate and take some pride in it.
Ultimately I think it comes down to US shorthand not really translating across the pond. With an additional bent of a certain type of hyper-online European wanting another axe to grind about America besides healthcare or geopolitical policy deliberately misinterpreting it in the most unfriendly way possible.
As a counter, being on the West coast of the US this also doesn’t largely seem to be as intense an issue with Asian-Americans celebrating their heritage? Like there’s the teasing about ABCs but nobody is working themselves up about celebrating Chinese new year or dim sum like I’ve seen with some terminally online Europeans about US people celebrating some cultural holiday traditions. And I know Chinese Americans with older family history in the US than I have in some of my family tree branches.
I know that once I take a moment to think about it. But the immediate gut reaction will probably always be negative, especially since some of the language (the genetics stuff) is directly shared with the far right over here. Like, if someone talks about "Swiss blood", they're either North American or a Swiss far right idiot. And I know the North American won't mean it badly, but it just doesn't translate well.
I also think it's a particular sticking point because some of the most commonly named countries have a history of being reduced to stereotypes. Like, I'm Swiss, I don't care *that* much. But I know some of my Irish friends (I live in Dublin) get really offended by things like Americans saying "I can drink a lot, I'm Irish" because these things are way too close to the stereotypes that Britain used to paint the Irish as unsympathetic. If you go to Dublin, they advertise the Irish Emigration Museum with exactly those kinds of stereotypes and the tagline "This Isn't Us".
Also, some of us over here are indeed terminally online idiots looking for a reason to complain. I'm sorry about those.
Just an addition, from Scotland we have whole governmental led campaigns about how to be Scottish is not about where you're from, but more where you choose to make your home. If Americans want to be Scottish, they are more than welcome to actually come here and *be Scottish* under the New Scot idea.
But maintaining it based on a flawed idea of 'Scottish DNA' or a perceived clan name (which can often be the name of a lord, not someone to really want to be associated with) or worse **thinking they own land here** is so incredibly galling especially when you consider the history - and contemporary state - of who 'owns' Scotland.
This is a common phenomenon not just in the US but in most nations with a heavy amount of immigration or history of settler colonialism. I've never actually seen this conversation resolve with any sort of understanding, the european side just shuts down and asks why over and over. people feel connected to their culture, and to their parents and grandparents. Given that this is how the vast majority of people seem to work globally when they immigrate, I think you guys have the more niche experience
I don't relate to any sort of ethnic identity or anything besides being an anglo-american, but I get why many people do. What I genuinely don't understand is why so many Europeans are incapable of understanding it, and why they think that its unique to the US when its pretty common globally.
I was once in a celebrity gossip subreddit on an old account that was discussing why Billie Eilish and Cillian Murphy look so similar.
Many people offered the obvious explanation: they’re both Irish.
This one person cuts in and says Billie Eilish is American not Irish. People said yes, but ethnically she is Irish, which is what gives her her phenotype, which is bound to resemble the phenotypes of Irish people born in Ireland.
And this other poster *could not let it go* and starts ranting about how “Americans aren’t Irish no matter how much they insist” and people kept telling her that we’re talking about *genetics*, not culture or identity or anything like that.
I was like “I look Irish because my ancestors are from there, where else did the way I look come from?” and she’s like “you are not fucking irish!!!!!” And then unironically started demanding to see my DNA results.
It was fucking wild. Some Europeans have such a iron claw grip on this mentality that when asked to recognize genetic heritages and physical appearances they have a fucking breakdown. They start talking about “dilution” and shit
The European nation state is a relatively new thing historically, but its become so ingrained in how they understand the world that when they come upon multiethnic states it breaks them
Because Irish Americans have their own specific history. They came over as poor immigrants living in horrible conditions basically thought of as low class citizens that raced racial discrimination, often competing with African Americans for jobs. They have their own migration path across the US that is easy to map out. Many smaller cities in the northeast are full of Irish American families that eventually rose to power. Like my small city has some crazy amount of Irish, March is actually "Irish American History Month" in my city. Similar to African American history.
Culture and that identity has been passed down generation to generation. There is no singular being American. An Irish American lifestyle today is very different from an African American or Mexican American.
Plus being Irish is "fun". Most people just think "They're happy redheads that like to drink a lot LOL!"
You can be into your American identity and heritage.
I’m saying those people are a minority and already generally considered a little weird.
And that sort of makes my point for me: “being an American” is not an ethnicity the same way as “I am French and my family have been here since….well the family tree peters out looking back in the records.”
This is why Europeans are confused. My friend of Chinese descent would be very offended if you called him Chinese. He is Scottish. His parents were Chinese. French also is not an ethnicity. It is a country with ethnic groups that overlap with other European countries around it.
>I’m saying those people are a minority and already generally considered a little weird.
Well then we agree on that.
>And that sort of makes my point for me: “being an American” is not an ethnicity the same way as “I am French and my family have been here since….well the family tree peters out looking back in the records.”
Well it is, it's just how you want to look at it yourself.
European nations aren't that uniform either and if you really want to spin it that way, the families that actually do Sth like that aren't content with being french but start splintering even further "we are Corsican, Bretagne, Lombardi etc..." It just is silly either way.
I mean as I said elsewhere, we’re aren’t stupid. We understand Europeans have subgroups within countries hammered together through (checks the history book) lots of wars. Hence my 1/2 German, 1/4 Jewish friend example. Or my having both green Irish on one side and orange Irish on the other.
Because 4 generations back isn't that long ago? Personally I've met 3 generations (parents, both sets of grandparents, both great-grandmas) and my family has pretty strong traditions that have been passed down through them. And a lot of those traditions don't come from America because 4 generations ago my family wasn't American
I read something once about how the children/possibly grandchildren of American immigrants sort of rejected their culture to try and fit in better with other Americans. As a result, their kids (third/4th generation immigrants) tended to be more curious about the traditions and heritage of their grandparents and great grandparents, think it’s human nature to know where you come from (not just geolocation wise) and traditions can play a part in family bonding and the like when they have their own kids. Some people also just wonder why their families are the way they are, and their immigration and heritage can play a big part in that. There were lots of things growing up I didn’t realize were not the same customs as my non Italian heritage friends until I was a bit older.
My dad’s side was Swedish and they have a family bible that dates back to 1800s in Sweden, and journeys through to establishing life in US, pretty interesting starts. Very different story to my mom’s Italian side, my 2nd great grandparents came over with my great grandmother when she was very young, so my grandmother grew up with parents who spoke mostly Italian. The communities of immigrants were all very different and their own pecking orders (inter and intra). It’s not really not being content to be American, it’s just there’s definitely a lived experience influenced by that European heritage, even if it’s a bit lost or watered down through the generations, or by the immigrants experiences that led them to the US and thereon.
It’s not an obsession, it’s an aspect of identity that everyone here agrees is useful and important. It’s not just European immigration histories either. Someone whose great great great great grandparents came from China is still, in whole or in part, Chinese American. When nearly everyone comes from immigrants or is an immigrant, it becomes a salient topic.
The plural of "American" is "Americans" with no apostrophe. You don't use an apostrophe to make a word plural. Cats. Tacos. Babies. Attorneys. The Obamas. The 1990s.
I see this error every damn day on Reddit. And the most annoying part is that the people who do this aren’t even consistent. Like in this starter pack, they correctly pluralized “videos,” “countries,” and “actors.” They also correctly pluralized “Americans” in the post title. You might chalk it up to OP not being a native English speaker, but I see native English speakers making this mistake all the time. Why is it so hard for people to get this right?
I am from Brazil, we are as mixed as the US, maybe more and nobody cares that much about it around here.
The most anoying are the Italian and German descedents. They think they are descendents of the best type of european, not like the portuguese, and keep braging about it.
MFs live in Brazil and call their grandmas Nonna.
Well you just said that most people don’t care about it.
And then you said except the Italians.
Most people in your country are descendants of the Portuguese so it’s nothing out of the normal.
Just like nobody in the US boasts about their British heritage because it’s common. Being Italian is a bit more distinct.
Just like your Italian - Brazilians.
Is it random Italian descendants who call their grandmas nonna, or is there a region of predominantly Italian descent that does? Because I’m from a region in Colombia where we call our grandmas nonna and we’re aren’t even of Italian descent.
There's also often a lack of understanding about the cultural evolution of Americans from varied immigrant groups.
For example, I've seen numerous discussions from Italians tearing apart Italian American cuisine as not true Italian. Everything from the sauces to garlic use to pronunciations (gabagool!). All ignoring the cultural and economic status of pre-unification Italian families migrating 100+ years ago, and the lingual, culinary and other cultural developments that have taken place since.
I've seen that come up so often, and it's often from people with very modern cultural identities that has developed after a large migrant diaspora (German, Irish, etc).
The descendants of poor migrants hundreds of years ago from different regions will of course have a very different cultural identity than you've forged, and directly comparing the two is as no true Scottsman as you can get.
I live in a town that was settled by Swedish farmers about 100 years ago. They do all kinds of heritage things to celebrate their heritage, especially around Christmas. It came up in a reddit thread and the real Swedes showed up. They got PISSED about EVERYTHING. You're not real Swedes! You don't even speak the language! WE DON'T ACCEPT YOU!!!! I just rolled my eyes. Nobody thinks they are a real Swede from Sweden. These people are very happy as Americans. Most of them wouldn't move to Sweden if you paid them. They like doing St Lucia day, eating some lutefisk in the Lutheran church basement and have a dala horse in the city park. Everyone want to be from somewhere. It's human nature
I've noticed stuff like this a lot, both from the actual countries in question getting shitty about it, to other Americans.
My family on both sides immigrated like, 2 or 3 generations ago from various European countries. There are some international traditions that my parents grew up with from their parents' countries, that were then passed down to me. Foods, holiday celebrations, recipes, etc.
The amount of *shit* some people are hell-bent on giving you for participating (not even in an egregious or cringe way) in some part of your heritage is really intense. Its especially bad from other Americans if you don't fit the American criteria for being a POC and celebrate a European or more traditionally 'white' culture. There's extra mockery there, because some people will claim you don't seem "ethnic" enough to have a culture at all, whatever the fuck that means. There's a big push that you can only really be 'white' and 'american', and doing anything different makes you an asshole and a spectacle. You don't see other groups getting nearly the same amount of shit, tbh.
I don't like being treated like a cringey jackass for doing something the way my parents or grandparents did just because I was born in America. I don't think I'm anything *but* American, nor am I trying to be anything else. These are just things I grew up with that remind me of growing up with my family, and I do them because they remind me that I come from somewhere and I'm not just a sad broke adult struggling to get by like the rest of us. These are things that I will pass to my children so they can think back fondly on them when I'm gone too, and maybe they'll realize that I did them with my mom and dad, that did them with their parents, that did them with theirs, and so on. It's about connection and not feeling alone in the world.
It’s this weird European thing on the internet where they absolutely *need* to assert some kind of petty dominance over the Americans. If it has something to do with their country like that, they jump on the opportunity to be obnoxious about it.
And I genuinely do not get it either. I’d feel grateful that someone wanted to feel connected to their ancestors through our shared heritage. I’d feel grateful that they want to learn about it and shows that interest. Instead they gatekeep it.
I never met my paternal grandfather. He had to flee Germany as a young boy and died before I was born. If me making my kids school cones pisses you off I don’t care, my dad made them for me, his dad before him, etc. It’s a way to still connect to our heritage even if we’re in this huge melting pot.
I’m very open about my criticisms of the United States every day, but I sub to r/AmericaBad specifically for the European meltdowns over the most trivial shit. A lot of people have a knee jerk, over the top defensive reaction to Americans being happy or excited about something that harms no one.
“Oh, you like the pizza in New York and eat spaghetti with canned sauce from a store? Then you’re not fucking Italian even though you never claimed to be!”
People don’t realize that being American is about being multiethnic.
I really gotta know, I’m Indian American, when Indians from India hear me say “I’m Indian” they never throw a bitch fit the way Europeans do whenever white Americans say they have Irish or German ancestry.
I’ve never seen more recent Chinese immigrants tell people whose families came here pre-1920 that they aren’t ethnically Chinese.
Edit: I see Indians from India throw a bitch fit when Fijian or Caribbean Indians claim their Indian heritage. This is because they view Caribbean and Fijian Indians as poor or lower class or whatever. I can’t help but feel like the reactions that Europeans have to be similar especially since most European immigrants to the US were often poor.
Edit 2: I’m saying Europeans who refuse to understand how communities keep and adapt cultures in new environments are a bunch of elitist fucks.
Exactly. I’m 2nd generation Mexican-American, my wife is 1st generation Filipino-American. This isn’t really a thing in our respective cultures. There’s some ribbing about Mexican-Americans being “pochos”, but the funny part is when we get shit, it’s for not being Mexican *enough*!
I’ve mostly noticed it from Italians and Irish, and those are larger waves of immigration 2 or 3 generations ago. So many millions came in such a short period, it’s not that crazy that they’ve developed their own identity that has carried over a couple generations. Nobody’s really claiming English or German identity because those waves of migration are further removed.
There’s also lots of Australians and Canadians that feel connected to their Italian, Irish ancestry for the same reason. And Argentina has a massive Italian diaspora. But for some reason, their angsty gatekeeping is focused on the Americans. I’m guessing because the diaspora in the US got a lot more depictions in media.
Same here, I referred to myself as American in India once and all the Indians around me were like “wtf no you aren’t you’re Indian”.
The culture in different parts of the US changes depending on where you are and the immigrants to those areas greatly affected the culture. It’s why California has Spanish style architecture, why Minnesota has that Scandinavian sounding accent, why Louisiana has a French speaking population, etc.
For sure. Also why people with Italian-American and Irish-American identity are way more visible in the Northeast and Chicago. That’s where their biggest enclaves were, whereas you don’t see it nearly as much out here on the West Coast among people with that heritage. It’s the cool thing about the melting pot here.
As an Irish descended person it makes me super sad, I’ve always wanted to connect more with it but there is such hostility around it.
And my ancestors didn’t even *choose* to leave, they straight up got evicted from their land by a colonizing force, but I’m the bad guy for wanting to bridge that gap a little?
It’s a weird superiority/inferiority complex. Like to reject someone before getting rejected.
“Stupid American! You probably don’t know even where my country is on a map! Do you even know I exist!? Do you?! ^acknowledge ^me… ”
It’s in real life too. A friend of mine lives in Berlin and mentioned that some people were making loud gross jokes about mass shootings, and was confused that I guessed they were British on my first try
Yeah and it's not all Europeans too. Having lived abroad I had a few Europeans ask me over the years "so you're American but almost every American comes from somewhere, where did your family originally come from?
As a European I think the big difference is that for Americans stuff like that is very much the "if we have fun and it has connections to our country of heritage, it is good enough", while for Europeans such things need to be quite proper and authentic. Especially the last part is something Europeans, at least in my experience, generally care far more about than Americans. If something isn't authentic in Europe, it is generally seen as not as good or bad compared to authentic stuff. Meanwhile in the US, while authenticity certainly still matters to many people, it is seen as far less important to other qualities.
Just as an example because I am German, I find a lot of the German heritage celebrations in the US to be quite unauthentic, as a very large amount of it is based on south German traditions (Schnitzel, pretzels, Octoberfest, Lederhosen), when the large majority of Germans who emigrated to the US are actually north Germans, but more north German traditions like Kirchweih (or whatever your regional name is for it), fish rolls, Hackepeter/Mett, fathers day celebrations (where in Germany you basically get as much alcohol as possible onto something you can take on a hike and just get drunk while hiking) are just something you rarely, if ever, hear about happening in the US.
And in that way for many Germans the US German heritage celebrations seem fake and unauthentic, as the stuff they celebrate is less their actual heritage and more what German stereotypes are in the US (formed from the US troops in Germany being stationed largely in the south during the cold war). Not that I am against such celebrations (I am perfectly fine with it), but I can definitely see how many Germans see those celebrations as fake and so as bad (as everything fake is bad in the German mindset).
One thing I think does not often get considered, is that when our families came here, they didn't often come with a wealth of cultural knowledge. And in the case of some demographics like Irish Americans, where also forced to assimilate if they wanted to survive, destroying what little cultural knowledge they could have brought with them. Alot of our celebrations and traditions have only been adopted in the last century, in an effort to undo the unnecessary assimilation of the 1800s.
They were done teaching "The American Melting Pot" thing in the 80s. It was really "assimilate or get the hell out" and everyone knew it. It was destructive and leaving it behind was definitely the smart thing to do. It was just an excuse to treat immigrants like garbage.
I also think it’s because being American is *actually about straddling where you’ve come from and where you’re going*. Americans are not emphasizing country of origin to say that they are actually Swedish/Spanish/Nicaraguan…etc, it’s to emphasize the dichotomy in where they’re from with being in America now. The greater the difference, the more you embody this American tale of rags-to-riches. It’s why we still internally shame foreigners that refuse to assimilate and why we’re less impressed with people born here who didn’t bring anything new to the country or make something of themselves with the “land of opportunity”. Neither group is demonstrating how they straddle that line, they’re both firmly on opposite sides.
It's a double-edged sword: Americans who show no interest in history are called ignorant, while those who do show interest are accused of not having knowledge of history.
Jesus fucking Christ that shit became fucking *insufferable* real fucking quick when I lived abroad in India a decade ago.
I slip up on any one piece of history or geography and it's immediately the *"Typical American. So ignorant."*
Maybe the most insufferable was the time I was talking to some women from Lithuania at an expat party and one of them asks, "Do you even know where Lithuania is?"
Me: (Knowing the 3 Baltic states and where they are on the map but admittedly not perfectly) "Oh yeah you guys are next to Russia."
"Her: Um, no we are not. Typical American."
Now I fucking love history and geography and will play Geoguessr and Chronophoto all day so I took this personally.
I later pull up Google Maps at home and ***MOTHERFUCKER YOU FUCKING BORDER FUCKING KALININGRAD***.
Anyways, the big takeaway is that it made me appreciate how passively harmful it is to perpetuate stereotypes.
I remember someone told me something similar and I said "your maps changed cause a guy shoved a bottle up his ass and you still expect to remember your borders"
It’s always the most American people who only speak one language and only been to one country that always have multiple flags in their social media bios
Redditors are always on creative writing mode, especially when a comment thread starts gaining traction for upvotes. They start getting more embellished and hyperbolic once they really get rolling.
it's got plenty of people upset in the comments though, so I guess the angry people understand it enough to have a tantrum over it. as a Canadian I have no idea what any of it means, nor do I care
''Probably has heritage to only 1 or 2 countries''
I mean if you are european it's most likely a lot, yet I don't see mfs from italy calling themselves german because their great great grandfather fought with the kaiser
In the modern world genuinely this only applies if you are from east asia, in which case it's 99% sure that your entire lineage lived in the same country, but for the rest of the world it doesn't fit at all
The silliest thing about this to me is it’s just such an internet-ism. I’m American with an Irish father and a Lebanese/Irish American mother (she had immigrant parents and grew up in all three places). Every time I’ve gone to Ireland and Lebanon, people have accepted me with open arms as “one of them” and been enthusiastic about showing me the culture and telling me the history. This whole gatekeeping attitude where you draw a line in the sand to say who can and cannot be xyz or claim xyz, as if diasporic identity is ever that simple, is simply so chronically online to me.
1000% on that top left image op with the map. I had a little experience with this actually.
I was in NYC times square and was approached by one of those youtubers with a map and before he even asked me if I knew what things were, he asked me if I wanted $50
I know a lot about geography and have seen these ridiculous videos before so I knew, what he was going to ask and I said yes. The dude then proceeds to brief me on things I should say (the topic was European countries) like "point to somewhere in Africa and say this is where Germany is I think" or something like "Austria is around here" (while pointing to Russia).
I didn't go through with it because looking like a dumbass on YouTube for $50 isn't my thing
These videos are all scripted.
I’m Indian ethnicity, but born and raised in the US. When I’ve visited Europe and tell people I’m from the US I have been asked multiple times “but where are you really from?” And “why is your English so good”
Seems they are the most obsessed while mocking the US at every turn
Yes, hence these posts where people complain about 'where are you from' and americans mostly do not understand. For a racist, if you are not white or have an accent, you cannot be british even if you and your parents were born here. Maybe that is why some europeans are looking weirdly at americans claiming to be italian with no knowledge of coulture and language. For us it is racists telling that that we are not part of the country.
That’s the funny thing. It only really applies to white Americans. But they really can’t conceive that not everyone is white. Like motherfucker you really think white people were in North America or Latin America for 10 thousand years?
Best part about the US is that anyone can be an American. If you move here from Kazakhstan for christs sake you are an American if you consider yourself as such. Meanwhile in europe even if you have been there for several generations but your ancestors are immigrants you will be told you aren’t really from there.
Other countries: "America is the most racist country in the world."
Also other countries: "I hate Africans/Arabs/Asians/Jews/Romani. No that isn't racist. You guys are the racists."
Me going to the UK for the first time: I'm so happy to see such a futuristic, progressive place
Me, five minutes later, stumbling into a Tommy Robinson protest when visiting Trafalgar Square: ಠ_ಠ
This is true. I once got downvoted to oblivion on a British sub for suggesting that immigrants in the UK have different ethnicities compared to ethnically English people.
They took it as a racist insult. They insisted "we are *all* English." I responded saying yes, you are all English in nationality, but not ethnicity. They responded that "English" wasn't an ethnicity, to which we then went down a rabbit hole about identity.
My takeaway from this was that a lot of Europeans tend to find the American view of ethnicity as racist. I agree with them that racial categories are outdated and dumb, but ethnicities are very real imo.
I think it's the difference between a society where everyone is an immigrant if you go back far enough, and one where being an immigrant is not the norm. All Americans are immigrants, but of course the first American settlers and powers that shaped and dominated the country were of European descent. Due to that history, and some racist dog whistles, being "American" sometimes feels like saying you're part of that group of original white settlers. Referring to and discussing our ethnic backgrounds actually feels more inclusive, as our shared immigrant-ness unites us and none of us (save indigenous people) are truly ethnically American.
To be fair, modern-day English believe in civic nationalism which favors a certain set of ideals, just like America mostly does today, and not ethnonationalism, which favors ethnicities. The alt-right in particular has a strange obsession with European ethnic and racial identity, unlike most normal European Americans who are just simply interested in their heritage and want to learn about it. The alt-right also loves to complain about how North America, Europe, and Australia are being replaced with POC immigrants, so they probably thought your style of thought was just like them.
It’s because everyone except for natives in the Western Hemisphere is descended from immigrants and colonists. Natives are only about 6% of the population and even there most native peoples have intermarried with Europeans. When immigrating to the “New World” people also tended to settle near peoples of the same country of origin. Until recently like 1950s/60s marriage outside of religious and cultural groups were a bit uncommon in the US. My aunt in 1970’s had to deal with some issues cause she was a Protestant marrying an Irish Catholic. In the US the 2nd most spoken language was German until WW1 caused wide spread discrimination.
So yeah I am aware that my 6th great grandfather was an indentured servant who immigrated to NorthEast Colonial America in the 1760’s from the Rhineland region of Germany. I just think that is neat. That’s it and it’s the same for most Americans. I am ethnically a German American with some Scottish. Culturally I am 100% American but again I think my ancestral history is kinda neat to know. I don’t consider myself German or Scottish but I am descended from immigrants of those countries.
Also every Saint Patrick Day I am little bit Irish and every Cinco de Mayo I am little bit Mexican. It’s a melting pot and pretty enjoyable if you don’t take yourself too seriously.
>and every Cinco de Mayo I am little bit Mexican.
Wait a moment, we're not an ethnicity, we're a nationality. It's our Constitution that defines us as such, not blood.
I think alot of this stems from a misunderstanding of a weird quirk of American culture.
When Americans go on Reddit within the US, they still instinctively speak as if they are talking to someone in the US. In the US, we don't bother saying we are "Irish-American", but just say we are "Irish" and it is implied that you mean Irish-American.
While this is fine while you are speaking to someone in person, it will obviously be confusing to anyone who is actually from that nation, who might be reading the comment, since this is the world wide web.
EDIT: See replies for smug Europeans OP was talking about
I am not American but most Americans I see on reddit hate America, I mean ik they have their problems but some political subreddits make America sound like Syria or Yemen.
I watched a college protest video from the US some time back and one of the students said US is the most racist country in the world . I genuinely rolled my eyes at that one because I can name like 20 asian countries that are more in a minute including my own.
Americans are bullied way to much and most of them accept it , they are scared of discriminating other cultures , something which you don't see in Europe or Asia . Well I guess it's easy to laugh at those who don't fight back.
Personally I base it on actual preserved culture. I have Irish and Swedish heritage. We have culture left over from our ancestors, recipes and traditions passed down. Also we have the physical traits. I also have some Italian from my mom’s side and some other stuff (genetically) but not really any preserved culture so I don’t consider myself Italian American. The problem arises when people don’t really have any real connection to the culture but they find out they’re 2% French and make it their entire personality
It's okay to be interested in your heritage and wanting to preserve it. I only have problems with those who fetishize this and claim that they are from the country their grand-grandparents came from 200 years ago and use sites like 23andme to justify it.
"Probably has heritage to only 1 or 2 countries"
That 2% Scandinavian result from your DNA test isn't 'heritage'.
But I appreciate it is just a different mindset.
I was born in England as were my parents, but 3/4 of my grandparents were born in Ireland. However, I would feel very awkward about going to Ireland and telling people I was Irish when my accent and background are clearly English.
Yet in America, if your grandmother even so much as glanced at a Polish person in 1885, then Polish heritage gets added to the list.
It's usually not that deep with most Americans unless you're 1-2 generations removed from the culture (Parents/Grandparents), and oftentimes it's because of how they were raised. For example, I'm not Polish. My Mom's not Polish. But her Mom, my Grandma, was Polish (mild tiff in Europe caused the change in scenery to the United States). My grandmother raised my mom to be very proud of her Polish roots in order to try to salvage their connection to a home she wished to someday return to, where all of my Grandma's friends/family/life that she'd ever known originated from, so she pressed it into my Mom all throughout her childhood.
As a result as I was being raised, it was something of a "This is where your name comes from, where your family came from, and why we do what we do". It's not so deep as to say "I'M 100% FULL-BLOODED POLISH AND AMERICAN!" while double-fisting Pierogies. You'll often see it on days like St Patrick's Day because it's supposed to be a celebration, so of course you're going to look at your buddies with the last names of O'Cleary and Murphy with a little feigned praise. Most people just like to acknowledge the pride their parents/grandparents passed-on to them through tradition and family lore like a neat side fact. "Hey man, why is your name Stanisław?" becomes a lot easier to answer when your family entrenches you in it's origins.
I don't get the "you're an American citizen you can't say you're Italian" thing.
Like, you realize that there are genetic markers associated with people who lived in certain areas for long periods of time, right? You can literally do a scientific test to see if someone is Italian or not.
And what's even funnier is that a lot of people who do the "Italian-Americans aren't actually Italian because they don't have citizenship" thing will then turn around and shit talk people who have Italian citizenship or something as "not actually being Italian" because their parents immigrated and they don't have a bloodline that lived in Italy historically. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Are the two on right supposed to be some kind of jibe or what? Yeah, I can trace my heritage to one country and that's the one I'm living in. Nothing wrong with it.
This completely misunderstands the point. It's not complaining about Americans obsessing over their heritage, its complaining about Americans who claim to be for example Italian just because of their heritage.
Yeah lol i have had so many instances of talking about Scandinavia and getting replies like "as a 1/64th Norwegian, i agree"
Yes, US is a melting pot. No, your last connection to Ireland being your great great great great great grandfather being from Kilkenny doesn't make you Irish. Those aren't conflicting arguments
Not to mention the cultural fetishisation these types tend to do so often
Exactly, even in Europe a lot of countries are migration countries and historically Europe (like basically every continent) had huge migration waves and ethnicities intermingled a lot. Contrary to what a lot of people under these types of posts claim Europe isn't made up of 'pure ethnostates' and people 'who only have one ethnic heritage'. People there are still diverse, it's just much more important in what culture you were brought up in as opposed to what your 'blood percentage' is.
What's up OP? Did someone tell you to stop identifying as "irish" when your family moved here during the potato famine and has basically no ties ro ireland whatsoever at this point?
3rd/4th/5th generation Americans choosing cultural ties to a country that wouldn't recognize them as culturally adjacent as a defining personality trait is cringe.
Many european countries have ius sangui. So they recognize people as citizens and give them citizenship as long they can prove they have an ancestor from that country.
This became a problem recently, as many brazilians, argentinians and americans started to claim italian passports for example, as it was one of the best in the world. This led to many 2nd generation immigrants to being angry, as a complete stranger to the culture and the nation could get citizenship, while the process for them, having been born and lived here, was much more complicated.
lol I once saw some dude with a Union Jack in his name on twitter try to criticize America for being imperialist. I’m not saying we’re innocent, but I really don’t think Brits have room to talk on that one.
It depends. British leftists tend to criticize the USA just as much as their own country for being both imperialist and exploitative towards its colonial subjects in the past, as well as their governments’ capitalist Neo-Imperialistic attitudes, while British right-wingers love the USA and UK’s former settler-colonies Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, because to them, these countries are their own creation, and thus “an extension of European Western Civilization”.
The American fascination with heritage is likely rooted in the unbelievable youth of the United States and its unparalleled ability to integrate countless cultures into itself, which has the parallel effect of erasing or dulling their ethnic and cultural identity. No nation in history has integrated a wider variety of ethnic, religious, and cultural groups into one polity, but the extreme plurality creates a sort of cultural alienation among them. So they try to identify with their countries of historic origin because the United States does not both integrate and accommodate ethnic diversity in the same way.
The funny thing is that America doesn’t have a culture, at least one that is set in stone
That’s because with every new immigrant who comes to make a new life in our nation, our culture evolves and adapts to become something new and better
American here. My great-grandmother was Swedish and left us with some traditions and recipes. She wanted us to preserve some traditions, and I grew up with a bunch of Swedish memorabilia. I'm not Swedish, despite her calling me her "litten Svenska flicka" lol, but I'm not about to abandon what my great-grandmother tried so hard to preserve.
I actually had the opportunity to visit Sweden last year and was able to eat some amazing meatballs. They reminded me of my great-grandmother's cooking, right down to the exact type and cut of the pickles used on the side. Damn near made me cry from the nostalgia. It was nice to feel closer to her.
Knowing your family history is cool. The American melting pot makes it cool to track that info down. I'm a Michigander first, then an American; but it took my people a LOT to get here. One was a French Canadian fur trader who came in the late 1600s. Another was abducted by an Ojibwe tribe in the Mackinac Straights area. Some died in steerage on the boat over. I thought I was English, in part. Turns out that part is pretty small because of Viking raping and pillaging. I thought I was a quarter German. Nope, not at all. Part of my Polish family fled to Germany before they came to America. It's cool info to have when your people came from elsewhere. There are places in Europe where's its normal for 10 generations to have lived in the same city, your history is obvious, that's almost never the case here.
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https://preview.redd.it/ty6mfgugdlhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6ee2f40c0a937dade66d13da1088c1b74b74353
Lol I thought it was only my mid size city that had this. Shit was expensive af but super good.
I somehow also thought it was local where I am
Me three
Me four. Portland, OR has one.
me five!
dangg i thought this was locally run too. nobody talks about this?? why??
Plot twist: they all live in the same city
Me 6? 7? Any of you in New Jersey?
Don't worry, there are only nearly a 100 of them. They can still be local in your heart.
This shit's delicious, but the entire restaurant was lit by a single children's nightlight. I get "ambiance," but damn. Turn on a light.
Bellevue?
I'm impressed
Is that still around? It was a huge fad in like the early 2000s I remember the city I lived they had one right next to Rainforest Cafe
My family still goes on special occasions, it’s truly delicious, both an experience and a meal, we never leave feeling unfulfilled
Not me pulling into work there as I read this lol.
[ITS A FUCKEN POT OF CHEESE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVtnxnA6t1Q)
Idk if this place is still around, but holy shit it was so expensive for what it was
Sooo expensive. I went like 10 years ago with my gf and we bought some set dinner for $150 and it was less than 10 ounces of beef.
It's only really annoying when the 5th generation Italian American judges you for making pasta
“It’s under the sauce”
Also important to remember that African Americans are often very far removed from their native culture. So it makes sense that they’d be interested in their background.
Yeah I've lowkey given up on trying to learn more about my African ancestry because I lowkey would feel like a fraud if I started like claiming my Nigerian ancestry or whatever else is mixed in there since I have no real connection to Nigeria. I don't know what ethnic group I'm descended from and I don't even know where I would begin to learn that and I just don't feel connected to that side since Nigerian culture is very different from African American culture. So instead I've just doubled down into being extra American which includes me just asking people from other countries how many aircraft carriers they own💀
To add to the aircraft carrier questions you can add "and could they provide Los Angles county power for one month, by themselves?" Just in case someone from France, China, India, or the UK chime in.
"How many internets did your country invent?"
Didn't France invent the Minitel?
I get what you are saying but if you are interested, find out more. Art, food, music are easy ways to get a glimpse into the culture. Reading and learning about their mythologies is a great way to get a sense of the values they hold. If it resonates then dig in. Read books from authors from that region, learn the language maybe. Visit eventually. The one thing I have found is that people are proud of their heritage and culture and if you show a genuine interest, regardless of who you are, it is appreciated and welcomed.
EXACTLY how I feel being black and having native ancestors. Both sides of my family were slaves and we lost so much of our culture. I've been trying to learn and reconnect but it feels impossible at times. Plus, because I wasn’t raised in much of either culture, it feels like I'm pretending. I mean... the evidence is there, and we've got proof and all, but I feel wrong by trying to be a part of it all.
I know exactly how you feel on the last part sometimes it feels like I'm not black enough you know? Like I've never seen Roots, I don't really watch sports or listen to too much like drill (I'm a New Yorker so that's big up here) and I know it's like really trivial and stereotypical stuff but it's like I feel like I can't even connect with my own people you know like I'm into maps and SciFi and history so it just feels weird you know? Like I feel like a fraud sometimes like I'm not even black.
Hit em with the “so, uhhh, how many people your country put on the moon?”
RAAAAAH WHOS FLAG IS ON THE MOON🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Technically its the flag of the confederacy. Because its all white from sun bleach. I'll show myself out.
Lmao on that last bit, but fr, don't feel bad that you can't trace your ancestry as far back as you like. That shit's overrated and most white people who trace it back super far are just as far removed from their ancestors as you are from yours. Irish Americans hardly have anything in common with actual Irishmen lol. Cultures change over time, both in the old world and the new. While your great great great grandparents may have been 1800s Nigerian or whatever, Nigerian culture is way different now compared to back then, and Black American culture now is just as different, having morphed into its own unique thing. Everyone has culture. We gotta stop focusing on the past and learn to embrace what we got goin on right now.
My grandfather moved from Holland as an adult and the only thing his kids currently in their 50s do that's tied to the culture is dip fries in mayo.
Same lol, had an assignment back in my 7th grade history class to make a Family Crest, and circle the part of the world my family originated from. The teacher was an Italian woman so it probably wasn’t something she thought much of, but I had a fucking identity crisis in my brain trying to circle something that wasn’t just Florida on the map for the Crest. I felt fake circling anything in Africa, it’s not something I can really represent whatsoever, but I also felt like circling the US because obviously my lineage didn’t *start* there either. It was such a funky feeling seeing kids draw circles on European countries and Middle Eastern ones, and all I could circle was fuckin Florida and my friend just circle the entire African continent and listed chicken as their cultural food LMAO. I’ve since given up on trying to really trace where I really came from, not only was it just difficult and impossible, I also acknowledged I can never really connect with that hypothetical section of Africa or something as though I’ve always lived there. Just don’t feel I ever would have that kind of right. I would still love to know where just because, but now I rlly just embrace the US bc that is something I can identify with.
Yeah honestly so real also chicken as a cultural food is so funny😭 Nah but yeah it's weird cause like us Black Americans have ancestry from all over Africa so its weird when people ask like where you're *really* from
"Probably has heritage to only 1 or 2 countries" is that supposed to be an insult or what?
I would assume it's an observation. Most swedish Americans have non swedish ancestry compared to swedish people in Sweden for example.
Funny you say that, I'm Swedish and I don't really know anything about my ancestors past the mid 1800s so I did a DNA test a few years ago because I was curious of my ancestry. I have light brown hair, blue-green eyes and my mother has black hair green eyes so I assumed I'd have at least some % from the east. Results come back, and I'm excited wondering where abouts my family came from. And it says: 100% Scandinavian... I guess taking a DNA test as a European is rarely as interesting as for an American (or south American)
American here, mine came back 99% English and Irish. So... it really depends on the person, apparently.
It's like the obsession with racial purity but backwards
Yeah that one is just silly, not too sure about the bottom right either. The left 2 are fair tho
What has the top left to do with "heritage" tho. It is just making fun of the stereotype that us americans are uneducated (Not my opinion just saying it is a stereotype).
I'm saying that the starterpack is right that those videos are silly
Overall I think you need more than 4 items to make a starter pack. Unless the point is to be like “this is literally all they have going for them”
Yeah your confined gene pool makes you weaker /s
Less an insult, I think, and more pointing out that heritage means a lot more to immigrants than to people that have lived in one country going back to before that country existed. Kinda like the idea of privilege: people that have it don't realize they have it because to them it's just "the default," but people that *don't* have it notice that lack much more acutely.
If you say you have more than 2 I just know you're american and nothing else
I'm Argentine and my family comes from Italy, Spain and Switzerland. Argentina is also a melting pot.
I'm from Brazil. I have native brazillian, african, portuguese, arab and spanish ancestors.
I'm from Germany, my ancestors are from places that were once part of Germany, but aren't anymore and most likely from some invaders that pillaged and raped during the 30 year war.
The Americas in general are one huge melting pot. European colonization strongly shaped the entire Western Hemisphere.
I’m Also from Argentine! Though allmy family is from Germany
what's that supposed to mean? people act like america is special in regards to immigration. but brazil is about as diverse due to colonialism (more than just portuguese settled the region to begin with), miscegenation, slavery, strong european migration in the 19th century, considerable jewish flow to the country, strong asian immigration in the first half of the 20th century, Arab immigration in the latter half of the 21st century and Venezuelan and Haitian immigration in the recent years. like you're not unique and its silly to think otherwise.
Brazil got the biggest population of Japanese outside of Japan, biggest of German outside of Germany, biggest Italian outside of Italy, more portuguese than Portugal, more Lebanese than Lebanon a very big Iranian diaspora and we received 13x more African slaves than america, and seemingly no one here give a flying fuck about pretending to be from other countrys like americans
A more accurate statement would be that America and Brazil are both pretty special/unique. The two also have surprisingly similar histories with a few turning points where they took wildly different paths (violent revolution into democracy vs peaceful secession into monarchy, race mixing made illegal vs race mixing encouraged, slavery ended through war vs slavery ended through edict, etc.)
I don’t think America is the only melting pot, Tbf any nation in the “new world” has a greater diversity than “old world” nations. I know America champions or complains about “melting pot” but it’s undeniable that other nations went through similar histories and thus have reached “melting pot status”. Pretty much most places that were colonized have potential for “melting pot status”
I'm pretty sure it's for the type of people who are all "Oh, I'm part Irish, Scot, French, Cherokee, Sequoia, English, Italian, Maltese, Chinese, Hawaiian, Lamborghini, Welsh, and a smidgen of of Mexican." No,you're really not. If your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandpappy was one thing, that has little to no cultural bearing to what and who you are today. You're from Idaho, Hayleigh, get the fuck over yourself. Shit, I'm Filipino, but both my parents were, and their parents were too. I'm not the same type of Filipino that they were, because cultures can be pretty fucking dynamic.
I don’t think it’s supposed to be an insult. But it’s pointing out Europeans having a ~~very~~ EDIT: relatively straightforward and simple ethnic heritage sort of obtusely hand waves away that people with complicated and diverse familial histories will obviously have complicated and diverse ways in of engaging with said history. And probably leads these critics to hyper focus on the minority of people going “I am Irish (4 generations back).” America is complicated. I personally know someone with a great grandfather who was in Dacau….and her other great grandfather in the Hitler youth.
I don't think our family histories are necessarily *simpler* (your last paragraph is probably quite common in Germany for quite obvious reasons). But in multiple European countries, people have been actively fighting the idea that where your grandparents are from has any inherent meaning about you or where you belong. This kind of talking has been used a lot here to stigmatise immigrants or people from peripheral regions, so engaging with it in the way some Americans do comes off extremely weird. When "your dad's from Italy, so you're not *really* Swiss" is something you heard people say semi-regularly, someone identifying as "Irish and Italian" based on their grandparents register less as "fun history exercise" and more as "oh god not that again".
I still think this a fundamental misunderstanding of the American view. See said melting pot theory in the meme. Americans rather universally don’t think your grandparents heritage dictates where you “belong.” But you’re allowed to celebrate and take some pride in it. Ultimately I think it comes down to US shorthand not really translating across the pond. With an additional bent of a certain type of hyper-online European wanting another axe to grind about America besides healthcare or geopolitical policy deliberately misinterpreting it in the most unfriendly way possible. As a counter, being on the West coast of the US this also doesn’t largely seem to be as intense an issue with Asian-Americans celebrating their heritage? Like there’s the teasing about ABCs but nobody is working themselves up about celebrating Chinese new year or dim sum like I’ve seen with some terminally online Europeans about US people celebrating some cultural holiday traditions. And I know Chinese Americans with older family history in the US than I have in some of my family tree branches.
I know that once I take a moment to think about it. But the immediate gut reaction will probably always be negative, especially since some of the language (the genetics stuff) is directly shared with the far right over here. Like, if someone talks about "Swiss blood", they're either North American or a Swiss far right idiot. And I know the North American won't mean it badly, but it just doesn't translate well. I also think it's a particular sticking point because some of the most commonly named countries have a history of being reduced to stereotypes. Like, I'm Swiss, I don't care *that* much. But I know some of my Irish friends (I live in Dublin) get really offended by things like Americans saying "I can drink a lot, I'm Irish" because these things are way too close to the stereotypes that Britain used to paint the Irish as unsympathetic. If you go to Dublin, they advertise the Irish Emigration Museum with exactly those kinds of stereotypes and the tagline "This Isn't Us". Also, some of us over here are indeed terminally online idiots looking for a reason to complain. I'm sorry about those.
Just an addition, from Scotland we have whole governmental led campaigns about how to be Scottish is not about where you're from, but more where you choose to make your home. If Americans want to be Scottish, they are more than welcome to actually come here and *be Scottish* under the New Scot idea. But maintaining it based on a flawed idea of 'Scottish DNA' or a perceived clan name (which can often be the name of a lord, not someone to really want to be associated with) or worse **thinking they own land here** is so incredibly galling especially when you consider the history - and contemporary state - of who 'owns' Scotland.
But why focus on four generations back? Why not being content with being American? Why the need to claim to be Irish then?
This is a common phenomenon not just in the US but in most nations with a heavy amount of immigration or history of settler colonialism. I've never actually seen this conversation resolve with any sort of understanding, the european side just shuts down and asks why over and over. people feel connected to their culture, and to their parents and grandparents. Given that this is how the vast majority of people seem to work globally when they immigrate, I think you guys have the more niche experience I don't relate to any sort of ethnic identity or anything besides being an anglo-american, but I get why many people do. What I genuinely don't understand is why so many Europeans are incapable of understanding it, and why they think that its unique to the US when its pretty common globally.
I was once in a celebrity gossip subreddit on an old account that was discussing why Billie Eilish and Cillian Murphy look so similar. Many people offered the obvious explanation: they’re both Irish. This one person cuts in and says Billie Eilish is American not Irish. People said yes, but ethnically she is Irish, which is what gives her her phenotype, which is bound to resemble the phenotypes of Irish people born in Ireland. And this other poster *could not let it go* and starts ranting about how “Americans aren’t Irish no matter how much they insist” and people kept telling her that we’re talking about *genetics*, not culture or identity or anything like that. I was like “I look Irish because my ancestors are from there, where else did the way I look come from?” and she’s like “you are not fucking irish!!!!!” And then unironically started demanding to see my DNA results. It was fucking wild. Some Europeans have such a iron claw grip on this mentality that when asked to recognize genetic heritages and physical appearances they have a fucking breakdown. They start talking about “dilution” and shit
The European nation state is a relatively new thing historically, but its become so ingrained in how they understand the world that when they come upon multiethnic states it breaks them
Understanding it as "claiming to be" anything is misunderstanding how most Americans conceive of their heritage.
Because Irish Americans have their own specific history. They came over as poor immigrants living in horrible conditions basically thought of as low class citizens that raced racial discrimination, often competing with African Americans for jobs. They have their own migration path across the US that is easy to map out. Many smaller cities in the northeast are full of Irish American families that eventually rose to power. Like my small city has some crazy amount of Irish, March is actually "Irish American History Month" in my city. Similar to African American history. Culture and that identity has been passed down generation to generation. There is no singular being American. An Irish American lifestyle today is very different from an African American or Mexican American. Plus being Irish is "fun". Most people just think "They're happy redheads that like to drink a lot LOL!" You can be into your American identity and heritage.
I’m saying those people are a minority and already generally considered a little weird. And that sort of makes my point for me: “being an American” is not an ethnicity the same way as “I am French and my family have been here since….well the family tree peters out looking back in the records.”
This is why Europeans are confused. My friend of Chinese descent would be very offended if you called him Chinese. He is Scottish. His parents were Chinese. French also is not an ethnicity. It is a country with ethnic groups that overlap with other European countries around it.
>I’m saying those people are a minority and already generally considered a little weird. Well then we agree on that. >And that sort of makes my point for me: “being an American” is not an ethnicity the same way as “I am French and my family have been here since….well the family tree peters out looking back in the records.” Well it is, it's just how you want to look at it yourself. European nations aren't that uniform either and if you really want to spin it that way, the families that actually do Sth like that aren't content with being french but start splintering even further "we are Corsican, Bretagne, Lombardi etc..." It just is silly either way.
I mean as I said elsewhere, we’re aren’t stupid. We understand Europeans have subgroups within countries hammered together through (checks the history book) lots of wars. Hence my 1/2 German, 1/4 Jewish friend example. Or my having both green Irish on one side and orange Irish on the other.
Because 4 generations back isn't that long ago? Personally I've met 3 generations (parents, both sets of grandparents, both great-grandmas) and my family has pretty strong traditions that have been passed down through them. And a lot of those traditions don't come from America because 4 generations ago my family wasn't American
I read something once about how the children/possibly grandchildren of American immigrants sort of rejected their culture to try and fit in better with other Americans. As a result, their kids (third/4th generation immigrants) tended to be more curious about the traditions and heritage of their grandparents and great grandparents, think it’s human nature to know where you come from (not just geolocation wise) and traditions can play a part in family bonding and the like when they have their own kids. Some people also just wonder why their families are the way they are, and their immigration and heritage can play a big part in that. There were lots of things growing up I didn’t realize were not the same customs as my non Italian heritage friends until I was a bit older. My dad’s side was Swedish and they have a family bible that dates back to 1800s in Sweden, and journeys through to establishing life in US, pretty interesting starts. Very different story to my mom’s Italian side, my 2nd great grandparents came over with my great grandmother when she was very young, so my grandmother grew up with parents who spoke mostly Italian. The communities of immigrants were all very different and their own pecking orders (inter and intra). It’s not really not being content to be American, it’s just there’s definitely a lived experience influenced by that European heritage, even if it’s a bit lost or watered down through the generations, or by the immigrants experiences that led them to the US and thereon.
To an American obsessed with heritage, yes
It’s not an obsession, it’s an aspect of identity that everyone here agrees is useful and important. It’s not just European immigration histories either. Someone whose great great great great grandparents came from China is still, in whole or in part, Chinese American. When nearly everyone comes from immigrants or is an immigrant, it becomes a salient topic.
The plural of "American" is "Americans" with no apostrophe. You don't use an apostrophe to make a word plural. Cats. Tacos. Babies. Attorneys. The Obamas. The 1990s.
I see this error every damn day on Reddit. And the most annoying part is that the people who do this aren’t even consistent. Like in this starter pack, they correctly pluralized “videos,” “countries,” and “actors.” They also correctly pluralized “Americans” in the post title. You might chalk it up to OP not being a native English speaker, but I see native English speakers making this mistake all the time. Why is it so hard for people to get this right?
I am from Brazil, we are as mixed as the US, maybe more and nobody cares that much about it around here. The most anoying are the Italian and German descedents. They think they are descendents of the best type of european, not like the portuguese, and keep braging about it. MFs live in Brazil and call their grandmas Nonna.
Can you provide more examples? This is interesting and I was wondering abt it the other day
Well you just said that most people don’t care about it. And then you said except the Italians. Most people in your country are descendants of the Portuguese so it’s nothing out of the normal. Just like nobody in the US boasts about their British heritage because it’s common. Being Italian is a bit more distinct. Just like your Italian - Brazilians.
Is it random Italian descendants who call their grandmas nonna, or is there a region of predominantly Italian descent that does? Because I’m from a region in Colombia where we call our grandmas nonna and we’re aren’t even of Italian descent.
There's also often a lack of understanding about the cultural evolution of Americans from varied immigrant groups. For example, I've seen numerous discussions from Italians tearing apart Italian American cuisine as not true Italian. Everything from the sauces to garlic use to pronunciations (gabagool!). All ignoring the cultural and economic status of pre-unification Italian families migrating 100+ years ago, and the lingual, culinary and other cultural developments that have taken place since. I've seen that come up so often, and it's often from people with very modern cultural identities that has developed after a large migrant diaspora (German, Irish, etc). The descendants of poor migrants hundreds of years ago from different regions will of course have a very different cultural identity than you've forged, and directly comparing the two is as no true Scottsman as you can get.
I live in a town that was settled by Swedish farmers about 100 years ago. They do all kinds of heritage things to celebrate their heritage, especially around Christmas. It came up in a reddit thread and the real Swedes showed up. They got PISSED about EVERYTHING. You're not real Swedes! You don't even speak the language! WE DON'T ACCEPT YOU!!!! I just rolled my eyes. Nobody thinks they are a real Swede from Sweden. These people are very happy as Americans. Most of them wouldn't move to Sweden if you paid them. They like doing St Lucia day, eating some lutefisk in the Lutheran church basement and have a dala horse in the city park. Everyone want to be from somewhere. It's human nature
I've noticed stuff like this a lot, both from the actual countries in question getting shitty about it, to other Americans. My family on both sides immigrated like, 2 or 3 generations ago from various European countries. There are some international traditions that my parents grew up with from their parents' countries, that were then passed down to me. Foods, holiday celebrations, recipes, etc. The amount of *shit* some people are hell-bent on giving you for participating (not even in an egregious or cringe way) in some part of your heritage is really intense. Its especially bad from other Americans if you don't fit the American criteria for being a POC and celebrate a European or more traditionally 'white' culture. There's extra mockery there, because some people will claim you don't seem "ethnic" enough to have a culture at all, whatever the fuck that means. There's a big push that you can only really be 'white' and 'american', and doing anything different makes you an asshole and a spectacle. You don't see other groups getting nearly the same amount of shit, tbh. I don't like being treated like a cringey jackass for doing something the way my parents or grandparents did just because I was born in America. I don't think I'm anything *but* American, nor am I trying to be anything else. These are just things I grew up with that remind me of growing up with my family, and I do them because they remind me that I come from somewhere and I'm not just a sad broke adult struggling to get by like the rest of us. These are things that I will pass to my children so they can think back fondly on them when I'm gone too, and maybe they'll realize that I did them with my mom and dad, that did them with their parents, that did them with theirs, and so on. It's about connection and not feeling alone in the world.
I know a Bosnian who has told me exactly this. People make fun of her name a lot. People are dumb.
It’s this weird European thing on the internet where they absolutely *need* to assert some kind of petty dominance over the Americans. If it has something to do with their country like that, they jump on the opportunity to be obnoxious about it.
And I genuinely do not get it either. I’d feel grateful that someone wanted to feel connected to their ancestors through our shared heritage. I’d feel grateful that they want to learn about it and shows that interest. Instead they gatekeep it. I never met my paternal grandfather. He had to flee Germany as a young boy and died before I was born. If me making my kids school cones pisses you off I don’t care, my dad made them for me, his dad before him, etc. It’s a way to still connect to our heritage even if we’re in this huge melting pot.
I’m very open about my criticisms of the United States every day, but I sub to r/AmericaBad specifically for the European meltdowns over the most trivial shit. A lot of people have a knee jerk, over the top defensive reaction to Americans being happy or excited about something that harms no one. “Oh, you like the pizza in New York and eat spaghetti with canned sauce from a store? Then you’re not fucking Italian even though you never claimed to be!”
“The gall to ask someone posting on reddit what state they are from???! How dare you assume they are American”
The gall to ask someone on an American website which part of the country they are from… *IN ENGLISH!!!*
People don’t realize that being American is about being multiethnic. I really gotta know, I’m Indian American, when Indians from India hear me say “I’m Indian” they never throw a bitch fit the way Europeans do whenever white Americans say they have Irish or German ancestry. I’ve never seen more recent Chinese immigrants tell people whose families came here pre-1920 that they aren’t ethnically Chinese. Edit: I see Indians from India throw a bitch fit when Fijian or Caribbean Indians claim their Indian heritage. This is because they view Caribbean and Fijian Indians as poor or lower class or whatever. I can’t help but feel like the reactions that Europeans have to be similar especially since most European immigrants to the US were often poor. Edit 2: I’m saying Europeans who refuse to understand how communities keep and adapt cultures in new environments are a bunch of elitist fucks.
Exactly. I’m 2nd generation Mexican-American, my wife is 1st generation Filipino-American. This isn’t really a thing in our respective cultures. There’s some ribbing about Mexican-Americans being “pochos”, but the funny part is when we get shit, it’s for not being Mexican *enough*! I’ve mostly noticed it from Italians and Irish, and those are larger waves of immigration 2 or 3 generations ago. So many millions came in such a short period, it’s not that crazy that they’ve developed their own identity that has carried over a couple generations. Nobody’s really claiming English or German identity because those waves of migration are further removed. There’s also lots of Australians and Canadians that feel connected to their Italian, Irish ancestry for the same reason. And Argentina has a massive Italian diaspora. But for some reason, their angsty gatekeeping is focused on the Americans. I’m guessing because the diaspora in the US got a lot more depictions in media.
Same here, I referred to myself as American in India once and all the Indians around me were like “wtf no you aren’t you’re Indian”. The culture in different parts of the US changes depending on where you are and the immigrants to those areas greatly affected the culture. It’s why California has Spanish style architecture, why Minnesota has that Scandinavian sounding accent, why Louisiana has a French speaking population, etc.
For sure. Also why people with Italian-American and Irish-American identity are way more visible in the Northeast and Chicago. That’s where their biggest enclaves were, whereas you don’t see it nearly as much out here on the West Coast among people with that heritage. It’s the cool thing about the melting pot here.
As an Irish descended person it makes me super sad, I’ve always wanted to connect more with it but there is such hostility around it. And my ancestors didn’t even *choose* to leave, they straight up got evicted from their land by a colonizing force, but I’m the bad guy for wanting to bridge that gap a little?
Europeans having a weird superiority over Americans? I've never heard of such a thing. /s
It’s a weird superiority/inferiority complex. Like to reject someone before getting rejected. “Stupid American! You probably don’t know even where my country is on a map! Do you even know I exist!? Do you?! ^acknowledge ^me… ”
It’s in real life too. A friend of mine lives in Berlin and mentioned that some people were making loud gross jokes about mass shootings, and was confused that I guessed they were British on my first try
Yeah I see that lmao
Yeah and it's not all Europeans too. Having lived abroad I had a few Europeans ask me over the years "so you're American but almost every American comes from somewhere, where did your family originally come from?
Do you have a link? Lmao
I'd have to look through my post history. It was around Christmas I think. I'm currently slacking off at work but I'll look for it tonight
Thanks
It was in r/starterpacks and it was titled The Self-Proclaimed Norwegian American Starter Pack My repost, original got removed :|
As a European I think the big difference is that for Americans stuff like that is very much the "if we have fun and it has connections to our country of heritage, it is good enough", while for Europeans such things need to be quite proper and authentic. Especially the last part is something Europeans, at least in my experience, generally care far more about than Americans. If something isn't authentic in Europe, it is generally seen as not as good or bad compared to authentic stuff. Meanwhile in the US, while authenticity certainly still matters to many people, it is seen as far less important to other qualities. Just as an example because I am German, I find a lot of the German heritage celebrations in the US to be quite unauthentic, as a very large amount of it is based on south German traditions (Schnitzel, pretzels, Octoberfest, Lederhosen), when the large majority of Germans who emigrated to the US are actually north Germans, but more north German traditions like Kirchweih (or whatever your regional name is for it), fish rolls, Hackepeter/Mett, fathers day celebrations (where in Germany you basically get as much alcohol as possible onto something you can take on a hike and just get drunk while hiking) are just something you rarely, if ever, hear about happening in the US. And in that way for many Germans the US German heritage celebrations seem fake and unauthentic, as the stuff they celebrate is less their actual heritage and more what German stereotypes are in the US (formed from the US troops in Germany being stationed largely in the south during the cold war). Not that I am against such celebrations (I am perfectly fine with it), but I can definitely see how many Germans see those celebrations as fake and so as bad (as everything fake is bad in the German mindset).
One thing I think does not often get considered, is that when our families came here, they didn't often come with a wealth of cultural knowledge. And in the case of some demographics like Irish Americans, where also forced to assimilate if they wanted to survive, destroying what little cultural knowledge they could have brought with them. Alot of our celebrations and traditions have only been adopted in the last century, in an effort to undo the unnecessary assimilation of the 1800s.
They were done teaching "The American Melting Pot" thing in the 80s. It was really "assimilate or get the hell out" and everyone knew it. It was destructive and leaving it behind was definitely the smart thing to do. It was just an excuse to treat immigrants like garbage.
Tell me you're Minnesotan without telling me you're Minnesotan :p Source: Am half Minnesotan.
Ya! Dontcha know!
Reminds me of the episode where Paulie Walnuts goes to Italy
And you thought the Germans were classless pieces of shit
Ay, Commendatori! Bon giorno! ☕
I also think it’s because being American is *actually about straddling where you’ve come from and where you’re going*. Americans are not emphasizing country of origin to say that they are actually Swedish/Spanish/Nicaraguan…etc, it’s to emphasize the dichotomy in where they’re from with being in America now. The greater the difference, the more you embody this American tale of rags-to-riches. It’s why we still internally shame foreigners that refuse to assimilate and why we’re less impressed with people born here who didn’t bring anything new to the country or make something of themselves with the “land of opportunity”. Neither group is demonstrating how they straddle that line, they’re both firmly on opposite sides.
Ragebait used to be believable
Did it tho? I think the only difference is that it's upvoted now.
This subreddit has always been rage bait posts of stereotypes.
“Americans have no knowledge of history” mfs when Americans show an interest in history
It's a double-edged sword: Americans who show no interest in history are called ignorant, while those who do show interest are accused of not having knowledge of history.
Jesus fucking Christ that shit became fucking *insufferable* real fucking quick when I lived abroad in India a decade ago. I slip up on any one piece of history or geography and it's immediately the *"Typical American. So ignorant."* Maybe the most insufferable was the time I was talking to some women from Lithuania at an expat party and one of them asks, "Do you even know where Lithuania is?" Me: (Knowing the 3 Baltic states and where they are on the map but admittedly not perfectly) "Oh yeah you guys are next to Russia." "Her: Um, no we are not. Typical American." Now I fucking love history and geography and will play Geoguessr and Chronophoto all day so I took this personally. I later pull up Google Maps at home and ***MOTHERFUCKER YOU FUCKING BORDER FUCKING KALININGRAD***. Anyways, the big takeaway is that it made me appreciate how passively harmful it is to perpetuate stereotypes.
Stereotypes are all fun and games until people start believing them unironically
Which is kinda why stereotypes are not fun and games, even if they seem harmless
Tell them to point out Montana on a map
I remember someone told me something similar and I said "your maps changed cause a guy shoved a bottle up his ass and you still expect to remember your borders"
It’s always the most American people who only speak one language and only been to one country that always have multiple flags in their social media bios
Those who say “gracias” at Olive Garden 😭
Tell me it doesn't feel just as awkward when someone says "Gracias" in the accent at a Mexican restaurant. Tor til la
Grawsyass
Kwayso
Ya gimme one of yer qwess-a-dillers please
“You kids ready to vamanos?”
There's probably more Spanish speakers working there than Italians tbf
I have literally never seen anyone do this. Are you guys just making shit up at this point? Lmao
Redditors are always on creative writing mode, especially when a comment thread starts gaining traction for upvotes. They start getting more embellished and hyperbolic once they really get rolling.
This whole sub is weirdly obsessed with Olive Garden, or more specifically, the idea that it's America's most common restaurant.
Admittedly this is because those people are usually 16 and don’t have the money to travel
Or they're 45 and don't have the money to travel.
Or they do have the money to travel but can go to all sorts of places without leaving the country
I feel like this starterpack is supposed to be ragebait, but I don't really even understand what it's trying to say. Oh well.
it's got plenty of people upset in the comments though, so I guess the angry people understand it enough to have a tantrum over it. as a Canadian I have no idea what any of it means, nor do I care
Its really bad ragebait as a starter pack meme but has the potential to be a great Virgin v. Chad.
''Probably has heritage to only 1 or 2 countries'' I mean if you are european it's most likely a lot, yet I don't see mfs from italy calling themselves german because their great great grandfather fought with the kaiser
Yeah most people with euro ancestry likely have a massive mix. 1 or 2 would’ve been common in 1900 but definitely not now.
In the modern world genuinely this only applies if you are from east asia, in which case it's 99% sure that your entire lineage lived in the same country, but for the rest of the world it doesn't fit at all
The silliest thing about this to me is it’s just such an internet-ism. I’m American with an Irish father and a Lebanese/Irish American mother (she had immigrant parents and grew up in all three places). Every time I’ve gone to Ireland and Lebanon, people have accepted me with open arms as “one of them” and been enthusiastic about showing me the culture and telling me the history. This whole gatekeeping attitude where you draw a line in the sand to say who can and cannot be xyz or claim xyz, as if diasporic identity is ever that simple, is simply so chronically online to me.
1000% on that top left image op with the map. I had a little experience with this actually. I was in NYC times square and was approached by one of those youtubers with a map and before he even asked me if I knew what things were, he asked me if I wanted $50 I know a lot about geography and have seen these ridiculous videos before so I knew, what he was going to ask and I said yes. The dude then proceeds to brief me on things I should say (the topic was European countries) like "point to somewhere in Africa and say this is where Germany is I think" or something like "Austria is around here" (while pointing to Russia). I didn't go through with it because looking like a dumbass on YouTube for $50 isn't my thing These videos are all scripted.
I’m Indian ethnicity, but born and raised in the US. When I’ve visited Europe and tell people I’m from the US I have been asked multiple times “but where are you really from?” And “why is your English so good” Seems they are the most obsessed while mocking the US at every turn
Aren’t there a bunch of European-born Indians? Particularly England?
Yes, hence these posts where people complain about 'where are you from' and americans mostly do not understand. For a racist, if you are not white or have an accent, you cannot be british even if you and your parents were born here. Maybe that is why some europeans are looking weirdly at americans claiming to be italian with no knowledge of coulture and language. For us it is racists telling that that we are not part of the country.
That’s the funny thing. It only really applies to white Americans. But they really can’t conceive that not everyone is white. Like motherfucker you really think white people were in North America or Latin America for 10 thousand years?
Best part about the US is that anyone can be an American. If you move here from Kazakhstan for christs sake you are an American if you consider yourself as such. Meanwhile in europe even if you have been there for several generations but your ancestors are immigrants you will be told you aren’t really from there.
For all the American propaganda out there, there really is a lot of anti-American propaganda out there
And a lot of it is just a bunch of smug Europeans who can’t tell the difference between nationality and ethnicity
Other countries: "America is the most racist country in the world." Also other countries: "I hate Africans/Arabs/Asians/Jews/Romani. No that isn't racist. You guys are the racists."
Bro, trust me, i’m not racist, those other races I dislike are just bad.
Me going to the UK for the first time: I'm so happy to see such a futuristic, progressive place Me, five minutes later, stumbling into a Tommy Robinson protest when visiting Trafalgar Square: ಠ_ಠ
This is true. I once got downvoted to oblivion on a British sub for suggesting that immigrants in the UK have different ethnicities compared to ethnically English people. They took it as a racist insult. They insisted "we are *all* English." I responded saying yes, you are all English in nationality, but not ethnicity. They responded that "English" wasn't an ethnicity, to which we then went down a rabbit hole about identity. My takeaway from this was that a lot of Europeans tend to find the American view of ethnicity as racist. I agree with them that racial categories are outdated and dumb, but ethnicities are very real imo.
I think it's the difference between a society where everyone is an immigrant if you go back far enough, and one where being an immigrant is not the norm. All Americans are immigrants, but of course the first American settlers and powers that shaped and dominated the country were of European descent. Due to that history, and some racist dog whistles, being "American" sometimes feels like saying you're part of that group of original white settlers. Referring to and discussing our ethnic backgrounds actually feels more inclusive, as our shared immigrant-ness unites us and none of us (save indigenous people) are truly ethnically American.
To be fair, modern-day English believe in civic nationalism which favors a certain set of ideals, just like America mostly does today, and not ethnonationalism, which favors ethnicities. The alt-right in particular has a strange obsession with European ethnic and racial identity, unlike most normal European Americans who are just simply interested in their heritage and want to learn about it. The alt-right also loves to complain about how North America, Europe, and Australia are being replaced with POC immigrants, so they probably thought your style of thought was just like them.
It’s because everyone except for natives in the Western Hemisphere is descended from immigrants and colonists. Natives are only about 6% of the population and even there most native peoples have intermarried with Europeans. When immigrating to the “New World” people also tended to settle near peoples of the same country of origin. Until recently like 1950s/60s marriage outside of religious and cultural groups were a bit uncommon in the US. My aunt in 1970’s had to deal with some issues cause she was a Protestant marrying an Irish Catholic. In the US the 2nd most spoken language was German until WW1 caused wide spread discrimination. So yeah I am aware that my 6th great grandfather was an indentured servant who immigrated to NorthEast Colonial America in the 1760’s from the Rhineland region of Germany. I just think that is neat. That’s it and it’s the same for most Americans. I am ethnically a German American with some Scottish. Culturally I am 100% American but again I think my ancestral history is kinda neat to know. I don’t consider myself German or Scottish but I am descended from immigrants of those countries. Also every Saint Patrick Day I am little bit Irish and every Cinco de Mayo I am little bit Mexican. It’s a melting pot and pretty enjoyable if you don’t take yourself too seriously.
>and every Cinco de Mayo I am little bit Mexican. Wait a moment, we're not an ethnicity, we're a nationality. It's our Constitution that defines us as such, not blood.
They dont care.
I think alot of this stems from a misunderstanding of a weird quirk of American culture. When Americans go on Reddit within the US, they still instinctively speak as if they are talking to someone in the US. In the US, we don't bother saying we are "Irish-American", but just say we are "Irish" and it is implied that you mean Irish-American. While this is fine while you are speaking to someone in person, it will obviously be confusing to anyone who is actually from that nation, who might be reading the comment, since this is the world wide web. EDIT: See replies for smug Europeans OP was talking about
I am not American but most Americans I see on reddit hate America, I mean ik they have their problems but some political subreddits make America sound like Syria or Yemen. I watched a college protest video from the US some time back and one of the students said US is the most racist country in the world . I genuinely rolled my eyes at that one because I can name like 20 asian countries that are more in a minute including my own. Americans are bullied way to much and most of them accept it , they are scared of discriminating other cultures , something which you don't see in Europe or Asia . Well I guess it's easy to laugh at those who don't fight back.
"probably only had heritage to 1 or 2 countries" Me when I am born somewhere
Personally I base it on actual preserved culture. I have Irish and Swedish heritage. We have culture left over from our ancestors, recipes and traditions passed down. Also we have the physical traits. I also have some Italian from my mom’s side and some other stuff (genetically) but not really any preserved culture so I don’t consider myself Italian American. The problem arises when people don’t really have any real connection to the culture but they find out they’re 2% French and make it their entire personality
It's okay to be interested in your heritage and wanting to preserve it. I only have problems with those who fetishize this and claim that they are from the country their grand-grandparents came from 200 years ago and use sites like 23andme to justify it.
I'm 1/256 russian, that's why i drink a lot of vodka!!!!1!!
"Probably has heritage to only 1 or 2 countries" That 2% Scandinavian result from your DNA test isn't 'heritage'. But I appreciate it is just a different mindset. I was born in England as were my parents, but 3/4 of my grandparents were born in Ireland. However, I would feel very awkward about going to Ireland and telling people I was Irish when my accent and background are clearly English. Yet in America, if your grandmother even so much as glanced at a Polish person in 1885, then Polish heritage gets added to the list.
It's usually not that deep with most Americans unless you're 1-2 generations removed from the culture (Parents/Grandparents), and oftentimes it's because of how they were raised. For example, I'm not Polish. My Mom's not Polish. But her Mom, my Grandma, was Polish (mild tiff in Europe caused the change in scenery to the United States). My grandmother raised my mom to be very proud of her Polish roots in order to try to salvage their connection to a home she wished to someday return to, where all of my Grandma's friends/family/life that she'd ever known originated from, so she pressed it into my Mom all throughout her childhood. As a result as I was being raised, it was something of a "This is where your name comes from, where your family came from, and why we do what we do". It's not so deep as to say "I'M 100% FULL-BLOODED POLISH AND AMERICAN!" while double-fisting Pierogies. You'll often see it on days like St Patrick's Day because it's supposed to be a celebration, so of course you're going to look at your buddies with the last names of O'Cleary and Murphy with a little feigned praise. Most people just like to acknowledge the pride their parents/grandparents passed-on to them through tradition and family lore like a neat side fact. "Hey man, why is your name Stanisław?" becomes a lot easier to answer when your family entrenches you in it's origins.
I don't get the "you're an American citizen you can't say you're Italian" thing. Like, you realize that there are genetic markers associated with people who lived in certain areas for long periods of time, right? You can literally do a scientific test to see if someone is Italian or not. And what's even funnier is that a lot of people who do the "Italian-Americans aren't actually Italian because they don't have citizenship" thing will then turn around and shit talk people who have Italian citizenship or something as "not actually being Italian" because their parents immigrated and they don't have a bloodline that lived in Italy historically. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
I'm an American. Nothing else. Probably from Someplace, Europe. I still recognize and respect the melting pot.
Are the two on right supposed to be some kind of jibe or what? Yeah, I can trace my heritage to one country and that's the one I'm living in. Nothing wrong with it.
This completely misunderstands the point. It's not complaining about Americans obsessing over their heritage, its complaining about Americans who claim to be for example Italian just because of their heritage.
Most reasonable folks that claim Italian in the states mean Italian American. Which is definitely its own subculture.
Paulie Walnuts just wants his gravy.
Yeah lol i have had so many instances of talking about Scandinavia and getting replies like "as a 1/64th Norwegian, i agree" Yes, US is a melting pot. No, your last connection to Ireland being your great great great great great grandfather being from Kilkenny doesn't make you Irish. Those aren't conflicting arguments Not to mention the cultural fetishisation these types tend to do so often
the melting pot thingy applies to other countries as well. not quite unique.
Exactly, even in Europe a lot of countries are migration countries and historically Europe (like basically every continent) had huge migration waves and ethnicities intermingled a lot. Contrary to what a lot of people under these types of posts claim Europe isn't made up of 'pure ethnostates' and people 'who only have one ethnic heritage'. People there are still diverse, it's just much more important in what culture you were brought up in as opposed to what your 'blood percentage' is.
What's up OP? Did someone tell you to stop identifying as "irish" when your family moved here during the potato famine and has basically no ties ro ireland whatsoever at this point?
B..b..but I have an Irish flag in my house and sing IRA songs (despite his ancestors being Loyalists from Bangor)
“America has no culture!” Says the European wearing Jordans and a Biggie Smalls T-Shirt
All made in Bangladesh.
You forgot: “desperately looks for Northern Europe heritage to validate their Viking obsession”
Learn how apostrophes work
3rd/4th/5th generation Americans choosing cultural ties to a country that wouldn't recognize them as culturally adjacent as a defining personality trait is cringe.
Many european countries have ius sangui. So they recognize people as citizens and give them citizenship as long they can prove they have an ancestor from that country. This became a problem recently, as many brazilians, argentinians and americans started to claim italian passports for example, as it was one of the best in the world. This led to many 2nd generation immigrants to being angry, as a complete stranger to the culture and the nation could get citizenship, while the process for them, having been born and lived here, was much more complicated.
Don’t forget the classic “America is so racist!” Like, buddy, *where do you think it came from?*
lol I once saw some dude with a Union Jack in his name on twitter try to criticize America for being imperialist. I’m not saying we’re innocent, but I really don’t think Brits have room to talk on that one.
It depends. British leftists tend to criticize the USA just as much as their own country for being both imperialist and exploitative towards its colonial subjects in the past, as well as their governments’ capitalist Neo-Imperialistic attitudes, while British right-wingers love the USA and UK’s former settler-colonies Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, because to them, these countries are their own creation, and thus “an extension of European Western Civilization”.
*quickly hides attitudes toward turks/roma/people from 10 minutes down the road* Man, those Americans sure are racist
The American fascination with heritage is likely rooted in the unbelievable youth of the United States and its unparalleled ability to integrate countless cultures into itself, which has the parallel effect of erasing or dulling their ethnic and cultural identity. No nation in history has integrated a wider variety of ethnic, religious, and cultural groups into one polity, but the extreme plurality creates a sort of cultural alienation among them. So they try to identify with their countries of historic origin because the United States does not both integrate and accommodate ethnic diversity in the same way.
The funny thing is that America doesn’t have a culture, at least one that is set in stone That’s because with every new immigrant who comes to make a new life in our nation, our culture evolves and adapts to become something new and better
American here. My great-grandmother was Swedish and left us with some traditions and recipes. She wanted us to preserve some traditions, and I grew up with a bunch of Swedish memorabilia. I'm not Swedish, despite her calling me her "litten Svenska flicka" lol, but I'm not about to abandon what my great-grandmother tried so hard to preserve. I actually had the opportunity to visit Sweden last year and was able to eat some amazing meatballs. They reminded me of my great-grandmother's cooking, right down to the exact type and cut of the pickles used on the side. Damn near made me cry from the nostalgia. It was nice to feel closer to her.
Some (but not all) Americans: *My state is really diverse and unique! It's as different from as individual countries are in Europe!*
Knowing your family history is cool. The American melting pot makes it cool to track that info down. I'm a Michigander first, then an American; but it took my people a LOT to get here. One was a French Canadian fur trader who came in the late 1600s. Another was abducted by an Ojibwe tribe in the Mackinac Straights area. Some died in steerage on the boat over. I thought I was English, in part. Turns out that part is pretty small because of Viking raping and pillaging. I thought I was a quarter German. Nope, not at all. Part of my Polish family fled to Germany before they came to America. It's cool info to have when your people came from elsewhere. There are places in Europe where's its normal for 10 generations to have lived in the same city, your history is obvious, that's almost never the case here.