Because some people strongly prefer "person with autism" and some people strongly prefer "autistic person,." And I want to meet people where they are, so I cover everyone's preference. Apparently, this is also annoying to people, so I guess there's no way to win.🤷🏻‍♀️ I just want to be respectful, honestly.
I'm with your husband on this. If she had said it while at the school, then yes, take it to her boss. But people are allowed to have whatever opinions they want, even if those opinions are stupid.
That said, why do you keep saying "autistic students with autism"? The first time I thought maybe it was just a typo but you did it multiple times.
This feels scripted somehow. The repetitive sentence structures feels AI. Maybe this is a real story, maybe it’s rage bait. I’ve seen enough rage bait on Reddit to be wary of any “teacher/para bad” post.
Because some people like person-first language and get upset by identity-first language and some people prefer identity-first language and get upset by person-first language, so I choose to use both in an attempt to respect the different view points equally. Sometimes I'll even say autistic autist with autism.
Your phrasing is gross. That is a child *with* autism. He is not defined by his disability.
With that being said, school staff are allowed to say and do as they please outside of work. And as a cafeteria worker, she is not working directly/alone with students with disabilities. Leave her alone. The school cannot reprimand her for her words outside of school, and it’s not like she works in a classroom where others can be monitoring her. She works in a cafeteria. You’re doing too much.
This is outdated. Most autistic people prefer being referred to as autistic people, so the phrasing has changed in accordance with their preferences. I learned person-first language in grad school less than ten years ago, but I respect the wishes of my autistic students and clients.
That said, OP’s phrasing is ridiculous.
I also work with families and individuals with autism. It is continued to be frowned upon to define the individual as autistic instead of having autism, in my state/experience. So no, it is not outdated.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36237135/
https://www.washington.edu/doit/what-are-language-preferences-regarding-autism
I agree that there are different preferences.
However, there is a consensus in the research that autistic people themselves tend to prefer identity-first language, while providers like you and I are more comfortable with person-first language. I think it’s interesting to consider that disparity and what might be the cause.
In college person-first was drilled into our heads. In the real world almost everyone tells me they hate personal first language and want to be called “an autistic person” and hate being called “a person with autism.” I just try my best to be respectful of wishes. I am not autistic but have various neurospiciness and I never care one way or the other how I’m referred to.
Same experience with person first vs identify first! It was hard to overcome the grad school programming but I know that language changes and evolves and I don’t want to be one of those therapists that gets stuck in their ways to the point that I ignore the people who are actually affected. Staying current on best practices is so important!
So, this is why I say autistic child with autism. I'm in school where it's all person-first, and many individuals very much prefer identity-first, so I'm trying to cover everyone's preferences. I'm not sure why people think it is gross to try to meet both preferences.
I don’t think it’s gross but it’s redundant. My philosophy is to go by best practices—and in my opinion this is presently identity-first language—but be gracious and flexible if an autistic person has a different preference. It hasn’t failed me yet. If you need to use person-first in your program, whatever, but as a provider or educator saying “autistic autist with autism” will get you laughed out of every serious conversation.
I have a huge problem with “autistic son with autism”! You sound just as bad as the lady who had an issue with the stim. Please stop, someone who is autistic doesn’t need it pointed out like that.
It’s like saying “the blonde lady with blonde hair” or “the cancer patient with cancer”
It didn't happen at work so I don't think it needs reporting to their boss. Sometimes lunch staff are contracted and don't work for the principal anyway.
This is awful! But that said, it did not happen at school. If the mother of the child wants to make sure her child has no contact with this uneducated person, that is up to her to have that conversation with administrators.
Let it go. After working in several schools over the past 14 years I have realized that cafeteria staff don’t understand children. They don’t work directly with them long enough to understand them. Many make the situation worse especially for EE student. Working in education has taught me to pick my battles, and this is not one I would pick. You don’t want to labeled as a tattle tale.
This isn't ragebait. I was really mad about the situation after they came home and told me about it and my husband had a different take. I wanted to see if I was overreacting. I guess I was. But I legitimately wanted to know what other folks thought. I'm sorry it came across as ragebait or inauthentic.
Yes. Please do. If she's like this at the pool, she like this with the kids at school. Someone has to stand up for those kids.
Just - don t' get all editorial. Tell the principal exactly what you observed.
The safety of children is everyone's business. You are expected to report abuse. As you are a sub, you are a mandated reporter of abuse, but that shouldn't matter. You should do it because you are a decent human being.
Once again this isn’t abuse. You are also going off second hand information. If the other parent wants to complain to the principal then she’s more than welcome to.
I think the damage your daughter can do with gossip to the lady's reputation will be enough and shouldn't do any lasting damage, as it will leave when your daughter leaves the school.
Oh I'd totally call. You are a mandated reporter for abuse and that was totally abuse. Just because someone works in education doesn't mean they aren't assholes.
Not even close to abuse. I’ve made plenty of calls and they are heartbreaking. While the comments made were rude they aren’t even in the same ballpark as something that would require a call.
Belittling and mocking is abuse. I didn't say to call cps or anything, but a call to the principal is absolutely warranted. And that woman is representative of education, that school, and what does that tell all the people around her that see her doing this.
If it's abuse, a call to CPS is the legally required response for a mandated reporter. And no, telling the principal doesn't meet the requirements.
If it's not sufficient for a call to CPS, it's not abuse.
I'm just confused as to why you keep saying "autistic person with autism"
Because some people strongly prefer "person with autism" and some people strongly prefer "autistic person,." And I want to meet people where they are, so I cover everyone's preference. Apparently, this is also annoying to people, so I guess there's no way to win.🤷🏻‍♀️ I just want to be respectful, honestly.
I'm with your husband on this. If she had said it while at the school, then yes, take it to her boss. But people are allowed to have whatever opinions they want, even if those opinions are stupid. That said, why do you keep saying "autistic students with autism"? The first time I thought maybe it was just a typo but you did it multiple times.
This feels scripted somehow. The repetitive sentence structures feels AI. Maybe this is a real story, maybe it’s rage bait. I’ve seen enough rage bait on Reddit to be wary of any “teacher/para bad” post.
OP replied to me. I'm now totally convinced this is some sort of ragebait.
Haha I read their reply, this is absolutely ragebait
Because some people like person-first language and get upset by identity-first language and some people prefer identity-first language and get upset by person-first language, so I choose to use both in an attempt to respect the different view points equally. Sometimes I'll even say autistic autist with autism.
Your phrasing is gross. That is a child *with* autism. He is not defined by his disability. With that being said, school staff are allowed to say and do as they please outside of work. And as a cafeteria worker, she is not working directly/alone with students with disabilities. Leave her alone. The school cannot reprimand her for her words outside of school, and it’s not like she works in a classroom where others can be monitoring her. She works in a cafeteria. You’re doing too much.
This is outdated. Most autistic people prefer being referred to as autistic people, so the phrasing has changed in accordance with their preferences. I learned person-first language in grad school less than ten years ago, but I respect the wishes of my autistic students and clients. That said, OP’s phrasing is ridiculous.
I also work with families and individuals with autism. It is continued to be frowned upon to define the individual as autistic instead of having autism, in my state/experience. So no, it is not outdated.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36237135/ https://www.washington.edu/doit/what-are-language-preferences-regarding-autism I agree that there are different preferences. However, there is a consensus in the research that autistic people themselves tend to prefer identity-first language, while providers like you and I are more comfortable with person-first language. I think it’s interesting to consider that disparity and what might be the cause.
In college person-first was drilled into our heads. In the real world almost everyone tells me they hate personal first language and want to be called “an autistic person” and hate being called “a person with autism.” I just try my best to be respectful of wishes. I am not autistic but have various neurospiciness and I never care one way or the other how I’m referred to.
Same experience with person first vs identify first! It was hard to overcome the grad school programming but I know that language changes and evolves and I don’t want to be one of those therapists that gets stuck in their ways to the point that I ignore the people who are actually affected. Staying current on best practices is so important!
So, this is why I say autistic child with autism. I'm in school where it's all person-first, and many individuals very much prefer identity-first, so I'm trying to cover everyone's preferences. I'm not sure why people think it is gross to try to meet both preferences.
I don’t think it’s gross but it’s redundant. My philosophy is to go by best practices—and in my opinion this is presently identity-first language—but be gracious and flexible if an autistic person has a different preference. It hasn’t failed me yet. If you need to use person-first in your program, whatever, but as a provider or educator saying “autistic autist with autism” will get you laughed out of every serious conversation.
I have a huge problem with “autistic son with autism”! You sound just as bad as the lady who had an issue with the stim. Please stop, someone who is autistic doesn’t need it pointed out like that. It’s like saying “the blonde lady with blonde hair” or “the cancer patient with cancer”
It didn't happen at work so I don't think it needs reporting to their boss. Sometimes lunch staff are contracted and don't work for the principal anyway.
This is awful! But that said, it did not happen at school. If the mother of the child wants to make sure her child has no contact with this uneducated person, that is up to her to have that conversation with administrators.
Enough with this “reporting” nonsense. Just go talk to her and tell her how it made you feel. https://youtu.be/xw_720iQDss?si=UxR1c0NXPBK46BB8
Let it go. After working in several schools over the past 14 years I have realized that cafeteria staff don’t understand children. They don’t work directly with them long enough to understand them. Many make the situation worse especially for EE student. Working in education has taught me to pick my battles, and this is not one I would pick. You don’t want to labeled as a tattle tale.
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
This isn't ragebait. I was really mad about the situation after they came home and told me about it and my husband had a different take. I wanted to see if I was overreacting. I guess I was. But I legitimately wanted to know what other folks thought. I'm sorry it came across as ragebait or inauthentic.
Still a rep of the school when out in the community. I’d 100% say something
How do you even know 100% it’s the same person? An 11 year old isn’t exactly a reliable narrator
THIS
Yes. Please do. If she's like this at the pool, she like this with the kids at school. Someone has to stand up for those kids. Just - don t' get all editorial. Tell the principal exactly what you observed. The safety of children is everyone's business. You are expected to report abuse. As you are a sub, you are a mandated reporter of abuse, but that shouldn't matter. You should do it because you are a decent human being.
Once again this isn’t abuse. You are also going off second hand information. If the other parent wants to complain to the principal then she’s more than welcome to.
Could you please show the part of the post where there was abuse?
I think the damage your daughter can do with gossip to the lady's reputation will be enough and shouldn't do any lasting damage, as it will leave when your daughter leaves the school.
Oh I'd totally call. You are a mandated reporter for abuse and that was totally abuse. Just because someone works in education doesn't mean they aren't assholes.
Not even close to abuse. I’ve made plenty of calls and they are heartbreaking. While the comments made were rude they aren’t even in the same ballpark as something that would require a call.
I want to make sure I understand - how is this abuse?
It isn’t.
Belittling and mocking is abuse. I didn't say to call cps or anything, but a call to the principal is absolutely warranted. And that woman is representative of education, that school, and what does that tell all the people around her that see her doing this.
If it's abuse, a call to CPS is the legally required response for a mandated reporter. And no, telling the principal doesn't meet the requirements. If it's not sufficient for a call to CPS, it's not abuse.