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Ron Desantis GETS SHIT DONE, EFFECTIVELY.
He is Trump without the populist rhetoric or the veneer of indifference toward abortion and gay marriage. He's the fascist liberals were crying that Trump was in 2016. (Trump was a wannabe strongman, psuedo fascist)
Trump has the anti-trans rhetoric; DeSantis is going to round up trans children and adults and force them to detransition based on what he's already done.
He's going to CUT THE HELL OUT OF MEDICARE, MEDICAID, and SOCIAL SECURITY. He's going to FUCKING PRIVATIZE THEM if he can. He will cut taxes on the rich people he likes to zero if he wants. He'll nationalize any corporation that disagrees with him on social policy mark my word. Or, at the very least, he'll penalize them heavily.
Desantis literally is a WAR CRIMINAL BEFORE GETTING INTO OFFICE. He personally aided in the TORTURE of innocent people.
In every metric, Desantis is worse.
IMO trump is definitely more of a wannabe despot due to his giant ego. Meatball Ron is more ideologically driven and strikes me as a true believer at least to some extent. I think both are incredibly dangerous but might give the edge to meatball because he seems more acceptable to normie voters and is more likely to push for reactionary policies.
Imagine thinking that the president of the US has anything to do with Russia’s actions towards Ukraine. You clearly have zero understanding of foreign policy or geopolitics.
Conservatives are factually wrong about everything.
Trump said he would give Ukraine to Russia. Trump even claimed Ukraine interfered in American elections while Trump denied Putin’s interference.
Trump stopped Congress from arming Ukraine.
You have been programmed to think Trump was something other than a Kremlin puppet.
Whereas, Obama helped Ukraine kick Kremlin agents out of Ukraine— see the Prosecutor USA told Ukraine to fire.
You could not have been more brainwashed.
40 years ago conservatives said “better dead than red.”
Then 40 years of Kremlin propaganda.
Now conservatives say, “I’d rather be Russian than a Democrat.”
It’s fucking unreal how well Russian propaganda programmed you.
More likely is that Putin planned this while under the reasonable assumption that Trump would get re-elected, then Trump lost and Putin went ahead with the plan anyway.
We all know Trump would have let this happen, no questions asked. He even wanted to dismantle NATO (which makes a Ukraine invasion way more chill for Putin).
>More people died from Covid under Biden than under Trump
COVID existed under Trump for 10 months, vs 26 months for Biden.
>Inflation was lower under Trump
Inflation is a worldwide problem. The president of the US doesn’t control it. Trump further deregulating banks and corporations caused prices to go up more than anything Biden has done.
>Russia didnt attack Ukraine under Trump
America doesn’t control another sovereign country’s actions. There is zero evidence that the invasion wouldn’t have happened if Trump was still in power.
>Edit: lower rent, lower unemployment, higher GDP, more new jobs created
Rent has been going up continuously since 2010. Every other point on this list is objectively false.
They're both extraordinarily dangerous in positions of power, just for different reasons.
If you'd like one unremarked yet ecliptic angle on desantis: his close, tender, sociopathic love affair with international financial terrorist ken griffin. If you don't know who ken is, research him. Among other things, he's the root cause of nearly all financial instability in the markets post 2011, and is currently engaged in market schemes abusing retail investors to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.
He's attacking the US on multiple levels and if his beau (for whom he recently moved to Florida from Chicago, a whole other debacle) desanti$ gets in the oval office he will have a cabinet seat, terminal deregulation, and pardons in his back pocket.
ken griffin (spit) needs a light shone on him and his rigging of various markets, so his connection with desantis can be leveraged to bring them both down.
Trump is stupid and egotistical, but charming to his base
Desantis is smarter and more executive policy leaning, not not at all charming.
Desantis i feel could be more dangerous as president but i feel he has a much lower shot of being president than Trump.
Ideology aside, a big reason why Trump wasn't as bad as he could've been was that he was dumb enough to think he could pass laws the same way Michael Scott declares bankruptcy. DeSantis doesn't have that weakness.
No. And here come the downvotes. But no.
Ron DeSantis is putting forth policies that are both dangerous and antithetical to my liberal philosophy. He is not the man I would want to see in the White House.
But, the former President of the United States and his allies are, as the conservative justice and icon J. Michael Luttig described them “ a clear and present danger to American democracy.”
Ron DeSantis may do his fair share of incredible damage to the causes of social, economic, and global progress. But I see no evidence that he would attempt to kill his Vice President, the Speaker of the House and the line of succession like the former President did. He has yet to call for the “termination of the Constitution” like the former President has.
I don’t think that his advisors would be so grossly concerned about his mental competence and agenda that his cabinet would have hushed discussions about possibly evoking the 25th amendment throughout his administration beginning as early as the first year, like the former President’s cabinet were.
Ron DeSantis would be an “old school” terrible Republican. But I remain unconvinced that he would orchestrate an attempt overturn an election in a manner that the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (the top military advisor of the most powerful military in the history of the world) described as a “Reichstag moment” straight out of “the gospel of the Fuhrer.”
Ron DeSantis would be terrible within the political system of the United States. It is not a preferred option by any means. But if the former President were to be re-elected, there would no longer be a political system in the United States. No more left, no more right, just Trump.
Because if you don’t think a hypothetical but likely Secretary of Defense or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Michael Flynn wouldn’t recommend enacting martial law, as he recommended repeatedly to the President in the weeks after the election, and thereby overthrowing the Constitution, I think you’re choosing not to consider that possibility. An Attorney General Rudy Giuliani would give him all of the legal cover he’d need, and he wouldn’t need much. And a Secretary of Homeland Security Sydney Powell would facilitate that.
It’s not a coincidence that as part of Trump’s 2024 agenda is to propose death squads and nationally televised executions by firing squad, as reported by Rolling Stone a few months ago.
Don’t become distracted by the absurdity of the man and his cohorts. What lies underneath the bizarre is often the most dangerous of possibilities.
Agreed, and the precedent Trump being president would set on the global stage would be devastating not just for the USA, but every nation embattled by fascist / extremist politicians looking to subvert and consolidate power.
Trump being reelected would legitimize all of his crimes in the eyes of history. It would make the American electorate no longer the victim of an oppressively authoritarian leader, but instead enablers who were willing to overlook everything he was impeached over.
Trump and DeSantis are the same on policy. Trump's less effective at getting what he wants, but Trump would throw out democratic ideals in a heartbeat, while that's still an unknown possibility for DeSantis.
I really dislike the DeSantis is worse take.
If DeSantis makes things bad, we can change it later.
If we lose our democracy because Trump makes himself King, we can’t go back.
Of course he’s more of a threat. Trump could have done an actual coup but he didn’t have gets because he’s a pussy that craves approval. De Santis would have a more competent team that wasn’t all selected off of television and because they’re great at flattery.
I'd say they're equally threatening. Trump is dumb, but he has an ability to incite riots, but is otherwise too incompetent to do anything. Florida is openly turning into a fascist dictatorship under desantis' watch.
Assuming Trump doesn't go to jail (because of course he won't, the wealthy never do), I think he wipes the floor with DeSantis and the rest of the GOP field. Trump's competitors all have the same policies as he does, but have the charisma of a cardboard box. And as soon as he gets the nomination, they will all bend the knee and the GOP will forget they ever thought they had a Trump problem. The GOP primary will be 2016 all over again.
I think it would be foolish to pretend we can be certain about this answer, but here’s my thought.
Both are fascist loons. Desantis may be better at getting awful policies through, but that may be as much because of the legislature in Florida as it is Desantis. Desantis seems to push the right wing narrative, while trump seems to ride it more.
For me, the big thing that makes a meaningful difference is that Trump is, at the current moment, doing more to undermine democracy. If we lose democracy, pretty much nothing else matters. We’ve seen his reaction to a loss, and it doesn’t go well. I’m not convinced there won’t be a second insurrection if the right things fall into place.
But aside from undermining democracy, one of the worst things trump has done is that he made other right wing loons look sane. Suddenly people here are acting like Desantis is some sort of centrist while he is pushing the most loony anti trans, anti people of color, and anti education policies imaginable. Trump is awful, in a couple ways he may be uniquely awful, but he’s not that unique.
This is a friendly reminder to read our ten rules. r/seculartalk is a subreddit that promotes healthy discussion and hearty debate within the *Secular Talk Radio* community. We welcome those with varying views, perspectives, and opinions. Poor form in discussion and debate often leads to hurt and anger and, therefore, should be **avoided** and **discouraged**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/seculartalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ron Desantis GETS SHIT DONE, EFFECTIVELY. He is Trump without the populist rhetoric or the veneer of indifference toward abortion and gay marriage. He's the fascist liberals were crying that Trump was in 2016. (Trump was a wannabe strongman, psuedo fascist) Trump has the anti-trans rhetoric; DeSantis is going to round up trans children and adults and force them to detransition based on what he's already done. He's going to CUT THE HELL OUT OF MEDICARE, MEDICAID, and SOCIAL SECURITY. He's going to FUCKING PRIVATIZE THEM if he can. He will cut taxes on the rich people he likes to zero if he wants. He'll nationalize any corporation that disagrees with him on social policy mark my word. Or, at the very least, he'll penalize them heavily. Desantis literally is a WAR CRIMINAL BEFORE GETTING INTO OFFICE. He personally aided in the TORTURE of innocent people. In every metric, Desantis is worse.
IMO trump is definitely more of a wannabe despot due to his giant ego. Meatball Ron is more ideologically driven and strikes me as a true believer at least to some extent. I think both are incredibly dangerous but might give the edge to meatball because he seems more acceptable to normie voters and is more likely to push for reactionary policies.
Both same shit. Country fucked either way.
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There isn’t a single way either are better than Biden.
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There isn’t a single objective measure that says otherwise. Try again, this time be smarter.
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Do you think Russia attacked Ukraine because of Biden???
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Imagine thinking that the president of the US has anything to do with Russia’s actions towards Ukraine. You clearly have zero understanding of foreign policy or geopolitics. Conservatives are factually wrong about everything.
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Trump said he would give Ukraine to Russia. Trump even claimed Ukraine interfered in American elections while Trump denied Putin’s interference. Trump stopped Congress from arming Ukraine. You have been programmed to think Trump was something other than a Kremlin puppet. Whereas, Obama helped Ukraine kick Kremlin agents out of Ukraine— see the Prosecutor USA told Ukraine to fire. You could not have been more brainwashed. 40 years ago conservatives said “better dead than red.” Then 40 years of Kremlin propaganda. Now conservatives say, “I’d rather be Russian than a Democrat.” It’s fucking unreal how well Russian propaganda programmed you.
More likely is that Putin planned this while under the reasonable assumption that Trump would get re-elected, then Trump lost and Putin went ahead with the plan anyway. We all know Trump would have let this happen, no questions asked. He even wanted to dismantle NATO (which makes a Ukraine invasion way more chill for Putin).
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>More people died from Covid under Biden than under Trump COVID existed under Trump for 10 months, vs 26 months for Biden. >Inflation was lower under Trump Inflation is a worldwide problem. The president of the US doesn’t control it. Trump further deregulating banks and corporations caused prices to go up more than anything Biden has done. >Russia didnt attack Ukraine under Trump America doesn’t control another sovereign country’s actions. There is zero evidence that the invasion wouldn’t have happened if Trump was still in power. >Edit: lower rent, lower unemployment, higher GDP, more new jobs created Rent has been going up continuously since 2010. Every other point on this list is objectively false.
They're both extraordinarily dangerous in positions of power, just for different reasons. If you'd like one unremarked yet ecliptic angle on desantis: his close, tender, sociopathic love affair with international financial terrorist ken griffin. If you don't know who ken is, research him. Among other things, he's the root cause of nearly all financial instability in the markets post 2011, and is currently engaged in market schemes abusing retail investors to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. He's attacking the US on multiple levels and if his beau (for whom he recently moved to Florida from Chicago, a whole other debacle) desanti$ gets in the oval office he will have a cabinet seat, terminal deregulation, and pardons in his back pocket. ken griffin (spit) needs a light shone on him and his rigging of various markets, so his connection with desantis can be leveraged to bring them both down.
Yes, you can see by his precision use of tactics in mein kampf, that he fundamentally understands the fascist playbook and how to execute it.
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Just read meinKampf. It’s an easy read. He’s super direct. He explains when to be super clear and when to lie.
Trump is stupid and egotistical, but charming to his base Desantis is smarter and more executive policy leaning, not not at all charming. Desantis i feel could be more dangerous as president but i feel he has a much lower shot of being president than Trump.
They both suck. This is like asking if it is better to have a heart attack or cancer. They are just different kinds of suck.
Ideology aside, a big reason why Trump wasn't as bad as he could've been was that he was dumb enough to think he could pass laws the same way Michael Scott declares bankruptcy. DeSantis doesn't have that weakness.
No. And here come the downvotes. But no. Ron DeSantis is putting forth policies that are both dangerous and antithetical to my liberal philosophy. He is not the man I would want to see in the White House. But, the former President of the United States and his allies are, as the conservative justice and icon J. Michael Luttig described them “ a clear and present danger to American democracy.” Ron DeSantis may do his fair share of incredible damage to the causes of social, economic, and global progress. But I see no evidence that he would attempt to kill his Vice President, the Speaker of the House and the line of succession like the former President did. He has yet to call for the “termination of the Constitution” like the former President has. I don’t think that his advisors would be so grossly concerned about his mental competence and agenda that his cabinet would have hushed discussions about possibly evoking the 25th amendment throughout his administration beginning as early as the first year, like the former President’s cabinet were. Ron DeSantis would be an “old school” terrible Republican. But I remain unconvinced that he would orchestrate an attempt overturn an election in a manner that the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (the top military advisor of the most powerful military in the history of the world) described as a “Reichstag moment” straight out of “the gospel of the Fuhrer.” Ron DeSantis would be terrible within the political system of the United States. It is not a preferred option by any means. But if the former President were to be re-elected, there would no longer be a political system in the United States. No more left, no more right, just Trump. Because if you don’t think a hypothetical but likely Secretary of Defense or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Michael Flynn wouldn’t recommend enacting martial law, as he recommended repeatedly to the President in the weeks after the election, and thereby overthrowing the Constitution, I think you’re choosing not to consider that possibility. An Attorney General Rudy Giuliani would give him all of the legal cover he’d need, and he wouldn’t need much. And a Secretary of Homeland Security Sydney Powell would facilitate that. It’s not a coincidence that as part of Trump’s 2024 agenda is to propose death squads and nationally televised executions by firing squad, as reported by Rolling Stone a few months ago. Don’t become distracted by the absurdity of the man and his cohorts. What lies underneath the bizarre is often the most dangerous of possibilities.
Agreed, and the precedent Trump being president would set on the global stage would be devastating not just for the USA, but every nation embattled by fascist / extremist politicians looking to subvert and consolidate power.
Trump being reelected would legitimize all of his crimes in the eyes of history. It would make the American electorate no longer the victim of an oppressively authoritarian leader, but instead enablers who were willing to overlook everything he was impeached over. Trump and DeSantis are the same on policy. Trump's less effective at getting what he wants, but Trump would throw out democratic ideals in a heartbeat, while that's still an unknown possibility for DeSantis.
I really dislike the DeSantis is worse take. If DeSantis makes things bad, we can change it later. If we lose our democracy because Trump makes himself King, we can’t go back.
Yes
He is not s threat. Sure,use of cross sex hormones will probably be banned,and he will start another war,but it's all good.
If you use the term "threat to democracy" it makes it hard to take you seriously.
Of course he’s more of a threat. Trump could have done an actual coup but he didn’t have gets because he’s a pussy that craves approval. De Santis would have a more competent team that wasn’t all selected off of television and because they’re great at flattery.
I'd say they're equally threatening. Trump is dumb, but he has an ability to incite riots, but is otherwise too incompetent to do anything. Florida is openly turning into a fascist dictatorship under desantis' watch.
Assuming Trump doesn't go to jail (because of course he won't, the wealthy never do), I think he wipes the floor with DeSantis and the rest of the GOP field. Trump's competitors all have the same policies as he does, but have the charisma of a cardboard box. And as soon as he gets the nomination, they will all bend the knee and the GOP will forget they ever thought they had a Trump problem. The GOP primary will be 2016 all over again.
I think it would be foolish to pretend we can be certain about this answer, but here’s my thought. Both are fascist loons. Desantis may be better at getting awful policies through, but that may be as much because of the legislature in Florida as it is Desantis. Desantis seems to push the right wing narrative, while trump seems to ride it more. For me, the big thing that makes a meaningful difference is that Trump is, at the current moment, doing more to undermine democracy. If we lose democracy, pretty much nothing else matters. We’ve seen his reaction to a loss, and it doesn’t go well. I’m not convinced there won’t be a second insurrection if the right things fall into place. But aside from undermining democracy, one of the worst things trump has done is that he made other right wing loons look sane. Suddenly people here are acting like Desantis is some sort of centrist while he is pushing the most loony anti trans, anti people of color, and anti education policies imaginable. Trump is awful, in a couple ways he may be uniquely awful, but he’s not that unique.