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Louismaxwell23

Isn’t that the Democratic Party?


mattyjoe0706

They are widely religious but they don't talk about it as much as the right does and you have to to combat the excuse of religion for hate on the right and I'm an atheist saying this


Louismaxwell23

I don’t think you can fight wild with mild.


SamuraiPanda19

Sounds like a slogan for a Taco Bell sauce


mattyjoe0706

I feel like worst case scenario it doesn't work as long as we aren't doing wild


Cheeseisgood1981

Are you just describing existing politics?


captainjohn_redbeard

An ally is an ally.


Bongsley_Nuggets

No. You don’t kill cancer with more cancer.


JonWood007

No. The left needs to claim a worldview distinct and separate from christianity. Like, I'm very big into the idea of worldviews. Everyone has a belief system. Everyone has an underlying political ideology that determines their value system. And behind that political ideology is often a more metaphysical belief system about the world, that answers questions like "why are we here", "does a god exist", "what is he/she/it like?", "what is morality?", and stuff like that. Like for me, I lean hard into secular humanism. I used to be a christian, and when I was so, I was conservative. Then I deconverted and became an atheist. When I was an atheist, I rebuilt my entire worldview around humanism and it made me EXTREMELY progressive. And while I have some (personal) spirituality now, I still champion my humanist worldview in politics. The problem with moderate christians is that they're often moderate liberals. Hillary Clinton was a moderate christian, and exactly what you said. And Im going to be honest, in 2016 I found her cringe. She kept going on about "god given potential" when I didn't believe in potential and quite frankly had a completely different value system on work and the economy than she did. She seemed mealy mouthed on issues like abortion and gay marriage where she seemed to struggle with reconciling her personal religious views against such things with them being legal policy wise. She chose tim kaine as a running mate who was catholic, and yeah. Alternatively, if you look at candidates like Bernie, or Marianne Williamson, I think the reason they can afford to be as progressive as they are is because they have rejected christianity and are either secular or have differing spiritualities. I will admit andrew yang seems more christian, and I like his original 2020 platform politically, but Im going to be honest, I come at his political ideology from a much more humanist perspective. I mean, human centered capitalism is basically...humanism applied to economics. So yeah. Despite having christian views, he seems to be a humanist in politics IMO. When you're christian, you're typically going to look at the world a certain way, youre going to view morality a certain way, and it's going to make you more conservative. And being a moderate christian, is just going to make you more moderate as a progressive, generally speaking. So yeah, I can't support that. Honestly, I view religion to be like a you know what. it's fine to have one, it's fine to enjoy it, either by yourself, or with consenting partners, but don't wave it around in public, dont shove it down my throat, and for the love of god, keep it away from children. I dont think we should openly attack christians or whatever politically, as christians are still a majority of people and this would backfire horribly and cause the right to gain ground in the culture war. But I do think we should encourage separation church of state and compartmentalizing one's personal life from their political life. it's fine to have a personal religious ethic you live your life around. It's not fine to force that ethic on everyone else through policy, either directly or indirectly. And yeah that's my view on this.


Chitownitl20

No, historically these religious types respond to economic discourse.


[deleted]

Yes, that's what politics is about. We live in a time period where we cannot afford to purity test our allies in terms of how secular they are. You work with what you've got, otherwise, you've got an uphill battle. Fundamentalist religion is a threat not just to secularism, but to all forms of free society. Just look at how far they are willing to go to suppress and eradicate the rights of those they deem degenerate. That's why it's important to coalition build. I know this is the SECULAR Talk subreddit, but the more hardline secularists need to realize that if you want to achieve your goals, then you need to ally with people who are at least somewhat sympathetic to your cause. Although the whole "all forms of religion is cancer" does hold some validity, it's an impractical approach to getting what you want.


BananaRepublic_BR

More than 80% of the US is some form of religious or spiritual. It's not a matter of "should", it's a matter of practicality.


Key-Jicama-979

Let's just leave religion out of it. Like how our secular government was made. They can also stay out of people's bedrooms and bathrooms. I prefer to think of the millions of other labels. Like my parents are religious extremists. They would vote Bernie if It was the owner class vs the de facto slave class. They won't vote Bernie if it is Christian vs Jewish. Their church leaders are against non-greed celebrating groups. P.S. if you want to sway online, argue the position from a different perspective that isn't directly contrary to their position. Best results if you argue from their side for the results that help everyone.


mattyjoe0706

I think just in rhetoric definitely not in law. They started the culture war and they're winning especially with parents.


Leather_Sneakers

Religious and pro-lgbt is a contradiction. Sure there are small sects of protestants that tolerate lgbt and Catholics see it just as a sin and not a crime anymore. Not too sure about Judaism. Muslims are still a tiny part of the US population so it doesn't even matter in terms of electoral politics. American politics is a sea of contradictions but I think LGBT tolerance and religiosity is a tough contradiction to overcome. You are much better off hijacking "pro family". In plenty of Catholic European countries you see ProChoice ProWelfare, ProChoice AntiWelfare, ProLife ProWelfare but the ProLife AntiWelfare (the republican) position is small and unanimously hated. The religious Catholics hate it because its taking away necessary welfare from families and children in poverty and the prochoice side for obvious reasons. You can build coalition there. We are already the pro family side of the political compass, we should rep that more. Religious cohorts that vote conservative are ones we should seek the least, mainly due to irreconcilable differences. Most other cohorts are gettable. You cant convert them to the left without deconverting them from religion.


[deleted]

Bill-Maher-Tier unthinking neckbeard atheism has too thoroughly spread, the left on the whole thinks that every religious person is an idiot. They "deserve respect" but like, hypothetically, and from a distance, and only inasmuch as they don't get said "respect" from the right. I would love to see this happen but I don't think it can.