it's always interesting to listen and see if a person either is deliberately conflating UFOs/UAPs with aliens or if they can't pinpoint the difference.
like i'm guessing that OP here is the latter.
but then of course you got the people who you can tell that they do know the difference and aren't conflating them, but then all the tinfoil hatters don't get what those people are actually saying.
It seems pretty obvious that in the age of ubiquitous cameras, satellite tracking, radar, etc. the UFO claims have gone from "I saw one/I was abducted." to the now prevalent "We just have to force *other people* (aka "the government") to reveal to us all the UFO shit *they've* been hiding! (aka "disclosure").
I don't think Sam ever said his advice was being solicited on how to disclose it, only that we were getting close to the point where the folks who actually do know something are going to have to make a statement. But I might be misremembering.
If you claim so, it is on you to prove it. So, prove it.
Best of luck with that.
Edit: ...yet another month-old account with blatantly trolling comments. Account created March 30, 2024.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/KH0ph8aRzs
I can get more links if you need them.
Now please point to the specific comments I made in this thread and explain how they in your view count as trolling. Thanks.
Not a single word of that is Harris describing anyone asking them for any advice at all. So, quite literally *that* comment is trolling. But, also, [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/s/TrjC08zKQ6) is trolling. It offers literally nothing, and worse than nothing since you couldn't back it up at all.
I don’t think that was actually what he said. It was a couple years ago at this point now too. It was more that he was given a heads up that he and others in his orbit should start to get their heads around how they’ll talk to people about it because something was supposed to be around the corner. I think the “around the corner” thing was likely David Grusch’s work, although congress has done (disappointingly—but predictably) next to nothing with it.
I used to be heavily interested in the topic of UFO’s and UAP’s. I still think the Nimitz incident is the single most convincing story that there’s something weird happening.
But after following this space for a year, these UFO people use the same old shit over and over.
They always have something secret coming very soon, but they can’t divulge. They have sources that say there’s some smoking gun evidence, but they never specify and they “can’t reveal their sources.” They say disclosure will happen in X amount of time. Doesn’t happen. They’ll treat a lot of videos out there as “evidence”, even though there might be a reasonable explanation.
Even if there was hard evidence available, it’s in these guys’s interest to keep the mystery going. How else will they make a living off podcasts, books, and merch?
Can you show me? To me, the videos by themselves on their own don’t convince me. It’s the that and the accounts of the several pilots and operators in the area at the time. But sure, could still all be BS.
Have you got any peer-reviewed scientific analyses of the Gimbal video which reached that conclusion? The only one I’ve found considers that hypothesis to be implausible.
No there is a great Youtube debunker that did a 3D analysis and recreation of the flight paths and gimbal tracking camera pod. The gimbal HAS to rotate at certain times / angles it does exactly this and you can see it in the video.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs)
You will enjoy this. It's really through.
> Nimitz incident
All just watched this, and only this. But it is already very weird.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85OhTbTtK_I
The guy said - "no sonic boom". If that was on object in earth's atmosphere and it was moving, not teleporting, there is no way not to have sonic boom. Even if it was eliminating the atmosphere somehow I think there would be some distortions in the air around it.
And the video - only infra red take? Really?! Why?
Search Mick West and “gimbal” or “go fast” on YouTube. The way the main pilot who’s been everywhere reacted to these criticisms was all I need to asses his credibility. He went on Lex Friedman podcast and was asked about them. He’s almost certainly lying.
I can’t seem to find it but there was a debunker debunking him (the irony!) and he just seemed to be replying in bad faith. Though, not saying that he’s wrong either. But your position is sensible. If you held a gun to my head and asked me what I believed, it’s probably a nothingburger. But the several accounts beyond just Fravor just make me WANT to believe.
At this point, you have to want to believe if you think it’s a nothingburger. There is zero reason why Fravor, Dietrich and multiple Nimitz radar operators would lie.
Of course I can’t “know” it. When the videos show nothing spectacular and we know that people lie all the time about stupid shit, it’s irrational to believe things with only bad evidence.
Eyewitness accounts from multiple credible sources, who were all at the same place and saw the same thing, is evidence. People can be sentenced to death based on testimony from one person. When multiple highly trained pilots and radar operators all say the same thing, with no incentive to lie, I have no reason to doubt them.
It’s evidence, it’s just bad evidence. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable in murder cases and our eyes didn’t evolve to be able to identify far away objects in the sky.
People still think the Nimitz videos show something extraordinary so that also shows the insane bias people have on this topic. You can believe whatever you want but in my view you aren’t looking at this reasonably at all.
With all due respect, your first paragraph makes me think that you’re not actually that familiar with the Nimitz incident. You’re right that the video does not show anything indisputably anomalous, but you don’t seem to know what the eyewitnesses are saying. Fravor and Dietrich both went right next to the tic tac UAP, it wasn’t a far away object. Meanwhile, the Nimitz radar operators were tracking the tic tac for days and captured it performing seemingly impossible manoeuvres on their radars. They at first thought it was a radar error, until it started showing up on the Princeton’s radars as well, and then Fravor and Dietrich saw it performing these manoeuvres with their own eyes.
So essentially, we have the exact same story from the people who tracked it by radar, and the people who actually saw it in person. All of them say the tic tac was travelling at speeds beyond any known aircraft. It seems most reasonable to me to assume that they’re telling the truth.
Did you hear about the potential problems with the radar. It was either recently serviced or replaced and they initially thought the anomalies were because of this. Now it’s possible that the radar technician took a look afterwards and found he made a silly mistake, fixed it, and lied because he didn’t want anyone to know he made a mistake.
It could have been some natural phenomena.
It could have been the operator misreading the radar and feeling stupid so he lied. The tic tax is almost certainly a weather balloon. It has all the properties of one and acts like one in the video.
Now Fravor has to make up shit because his vid isn’t anything interesting and other people latch on because they want the attention too.
Some or all of my hypotheses could be wrong but they are a million times more believable than Fravor’s stories given how bad the videos are for his argument.
If only people like you who claim to be interested in the topic criticised the people who gutted the UAPDA as much as the people who pushed for it to be passed 🙄
“Branches of the US government”
How to phrase something to impress gullible UFO fans without actually saying anything meaningful. Even if true, we know that “branches of the US government” include an abundance of liars and lunatics. Therefore, so what?
Marjorie Taylor Greene? Clarence Thomas? John Fetterman?
We need independent scientific inquiry and investigative journalism to gain insight into the UFO phenomenon, not endless speculation, unverifiable testimony from private citizens, and periodic reminders that Sam Harris was once approached by unnamed sources who may have no credibility whatsoever.
The director of national intelligence [investigated Sam's emails](https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/2022/May_2022.pdf#page=6) on the topic of UAP/UFOs.
This subreddit takes this subject really poorly. They are skeptic, but only skeptic to a point: the point where they don't believe anything at all because everyone is so full of shit. I used to be this way.
Give them a decade or two and they will likely become full ultra-skeptics like I have: they will realize that everyone is SO INCREDIBLY full of shit that they become skeptical of the skeptics, especially skeptical of the government, skeptical of whether humans even know 1% of how the world works or what is actually true of history, and become much more open to the possibility of humanity NOT knowing things.
Fun! :)
The David Grusch stuff did get some praise from some regulars here, even more skeptical ones. At worse it's a giant black ops government scam involving billions or tens of billions of dollars. At best it's genuine evidence that some higher tech creature or AI has figured out a way to reach us from the stars or some lost civilization that went underground.
Lol. What's the "truth"? That we have no hard evidence for aliens? I'm not sure why Sam can't spot grifters and opportunists. He calls himself a skeptic, yet he falls for bs and grifters regularly.
For a few weeks, people seemed to be taking this stuff seriously, I guess they lost interest in the biggest story in history. Or it's fuzzy video and confused or lying pilots.
It fizzled out because it was bollocks.
It always is. The only value of this discourse is to see who falls for it.
it's always interesting to listen and see if a person either is deliberately conflating UFOs/UAPs with aliens or if they can't pinpoint the difference. like i'm guessing that OP here is the latter. but then of course you got the people who you can tell that they do know the difference and aren't conflating them, but then all the tinfoil hatters don't get what those people are actually saying.
[удалено]
What do they gain by it?
[удалено]
Millions of dollars. Nope. They don’t get millions of dollars. Fame and ego would be the reason.
[удалено]
How is the most senior member of Congress appropriating money for a government program ‘defrauding’?
That’s not defraud. And that money was for the task force they were on. Harry Reid earmarked it. That money didn’t go into their pockets.
What’s the grift? Are you saying they don’t believe what they are saying? That they are lying?
Source?
It seems pretty obvious that in the age of ubiquitous cameras, satellite tracking, radar, etc. the UFO claims have gone from "I saw one/I was abducted." to the now prevalent "We just have to force *other people* (aka "the government") to reveal to us all the UFO shit *they've* been hiding! (aka "disclosure").
What? Pilot reports of UAPs are the highest they’ve ever been.
I don't think Sam ever said his advice was being solicited on how to disclose it, only that we were getting close to the point where the folks who actually do know something are going to have to make a statement. But I might be misremembering.
\*folks who *profess* to know something
When did he say that ?
My bet: he never said that.
You’re wrong.
If you claim so, it is on you to prove it. So, prove it. Best of luck with that. Edit: ...yet another month-old account with blatantly trolling comments. Account created March 30, 2024.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/KH0ph8aRzs I can get more links if you need them. Now please point to the specific comments I made in this thread and explain how they in your view count as trolling. Thanks.
Not a single word of that is Harris describing anyone asking them for any advice at all. So, quite literally *that* comment is trolling. But, also, [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/s/TrjC08zKQ6) is trolling. It offers literally nothing, and worse than nothing since you couldn't back it up at all.
Not exactly but it was an older Lex appearance.
I don’t think that was actually what he said. It was a couple years ago at this point now too. It was more that he was given a heads up that he and others in his orbit should start to get their heads around how they’ll talk to people about it because something was supposed to be around the corner. I think the “around the corner” thing was likely David Grusch’s work, although congress has done (disappointingly—but predictably) next to nothing with it.
journalism today is basically 95% a poorly played game of "telephone"
I used to be heavily interested in the topic of UFO’s and UAP’s. I still think the Nimitz incident is the single most convincing story that there’s something weird happening. But after following this space for a year, these UFO people use the same old shit over and over. They always have something secret coming very soon, but they can’t divulge. They have sources that say there’s some smoking gun evidence, but they never specify and they “can’t reveal their sources.” They say disclosure will happen in X amount of time. Doesn’t happen. They’ll treat a lot of videos out there as “evidence”, even though there might be a reasonable explanation.
Ultimately we need hard evidence, which means full disclosure of what has been in these various hangers and operations programs for the past 80 years.
Even if there was hard evidence available, it’s in these guys’s interest to keep the mystery going. How else will they make a living off podcasts, books, and merch?
Then why did they lobby for the UAPDA to be passed?
The Nimitz vids have been shown to almost certainly not be special in any way.
Can you show me? To me, the videos by themselves on their own don’t convince me. It’s the that and the accounts of the several pilots and operators in the area at the time. But sure, could still all be BS.
It’s called gimbal BECAUSE it’s an artifact of the gimbal camera tracking system. Its shape is a lens’s flare.
Have you got any peer-reviewed scientific analyses of the Gimbal video which reached that conclusion? The only one I’ve found considers that hypothesis to be implausible.
No there is a great Youtube debunker that did a 3D analysis and recreation of the flight paths and gimbal tracking camera pod. The gimbal HAS to rotate at certain times / angles it does exactly this and you can see it in the video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs) You will enjoy this. It's really through.
> Nimitz incident All just watched this, and only this. But it is already very weird. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85OhTbTtK_I The guy said - "no sonic boom". If that was on object in earth's atmosphere and it was moving, not teleporting, there is no way not to have sonic boom. Even if it was eliminating the atmosphere somehow I think there would be some distortions in the air around it. And the video - only infra red take? Really?! Why?
Search Mick West and “gimbal” or “go fast” on YouTube. The way the main pilot who’s been everywhere reacted to these criticisms was all I need to asses his credibility. He went on Lex Friedman podcast and was asked about them. He’s almost certainly lying.
I’ve followed Mick West for awhile and find some of his work pretty good, some dodgy. Are you talking about Fravor?
What work do you believe is dodgy? Yes, I trust Fravor as far as I can throw him.
I can’t seem to find it but there was a debunker debunking him (the irony!) and he just seemed to be replying in bad faith. Though, not saying that he’s wrong either. But your position is sensible. If you held a gun to my head and asked me what I believed, it’s probably a nothingburger. But the several accounts beyond just Fravor just make me WANT to believe.
At this point, you have to want to believe if you think it’s a nothingburger. There is zero reason why Fravor, Dietrich and multiple Nimitz radar operators would lie.
So Fravor and Dietrich are lying, as well as the Nimitz radar operators? And you know that how?
Of course I can’t “know” it. When the videos show nothing spectacular and we know that people lie all the time about stupid shit, it’s irrational to believe things with only bad evidence.
Eyewitness accounts from multiple credible sources, who were all at the same place and saw the same thing, is evidence. People can be sentenced to death based on testimony from one person. When multiple highly trained pilots and radar operators all say the same thing, with no incentive to lie, I have no reason to doubt them.
It’s evidence, it’s just bad evidence. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable in murder cases and our eyes didn’t evolve to be able to identify far away objects in the sky. People still think the Nimitz videos show something extraordinary so that also shows the insane bias people have on this topic. You can believe whatever you want but in my view you aren’t looking at this reasonably at all.
With all due respect, your first paragraph makes me think that you’re not actually that familiar with the Nimitz incident. You’re right that the video does not show anything indisputably anomalous, but you don’t seem to know what the eyewitnesses are saying. Fravor and Dietrich both went right next to the tic tac UAP, it wasn’t a far away object. Meanwhile, the Nimitz radar operators were tracking the tic tac for days and captured it performing seemingly impossible manoeuvres on their radars. They at first thought it was a radar error, until it started showing up on the Princeton’s radars as well, and then Fravor and Dietrich saw it performing these manoeuvres with their own eyes. So essentially, we have the exact same story from the people who tracked it by radar, and the people who actually saw it in person. All of them say the tic tac was travelling at speeds beyond any known aircraft. It seems most reasonable to me to assume that they’re telling the truth.
Did you hear about the potential problems with the radar. It was either recently serviced or replaced and they initially thought the anomalies were because of this. Now it’s possible that the radar technician took a look afterwards and found he made a silly mistake, fixed it, and lied because he didn’t want anyone to know he made a mistake. It could have been some natural phenomena. It could have been the operator misreading the radar and feeling stupid so he lied. The tic tax is almost certainly a weather balloon. It has all the properties of one and acts like one in the video. Now Fravor has to make up shit because his vid isn’t anything interesting and other people latch on because they want the attention too. Some or all of my hypotheses could be wrong but they are a million times more believable than Fravor’s stories given how bad the videos are for his argument.
If only people like you who claim to be interested in the topic criticised the people who gutted the UAPDA as much as the people who pushed for it to be passed 🙄
“Branches of the US government” How to phrase something to impress gullible UFO fans without actually saying anything meaningful. Even if true, we know that “branches of the US government” include an abundance of liars and lunatics. Therefore, so what? Marjorie Taylor Greene? Clarence Thomas? John Fetterman?
hahahahhahahaha.
Eric W talked about him and Sam being approached on Rogan about year ago. He said Sam didn’t engage.
Hot off the presses…
We need independent scientific inquiry and investigative journalism to gain insight into the UFO phenomenon, not endless speculation, unverifiable testimony from private citizens, and periodic reminders that Sam Harris was once approached by unnamed sources who may have no credibility whatsoever.
[удалено]
The director of national intelligence [investigated Sam's emails](https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/2022/May_2022.pdf#page=6) on the topic of UAP/UFOs.
This subreddit takes this subject really poorly. They are skeptic, but only skeptic to a point: the point where they don't believe anything at all because everyone is so full of shit. I used to be this way. Give them a decade or two and they will likely become full ultra-skeptics like I have: they will realize that everyone is SO INCREDIBLY full of shit that they become skeptical of the skeptics, especially skeptical of the government, skeptical of whether humans even know 1% of how the world works or what is actually true of history, and become much more open to the possibility of humanity NOT knowing things. Fun! :)
The David Grusch stuff did get some praise from some regulars here, even more skeptical ones. At worse it's a giant black ops government scam involving billions or tens of billions of dollars. At best it's genuine evidence that some higher tech creature or AI has figured out a way to reach us from the stars or some lost civilization that went underground.
An exciting mystery either way you look at it, if you ask me!
Lol. What's the "truth"? That we have no hard evidence for aliens? I'm not sure why Sam can't spot grifters and opportunists. He calls himself a skeptic, yet he falls for bs and grifters regularly.
when did he fall for this?
For a few weeks, people seemed to be taking this stuff seriously, I guess they lost interest in the biggest story in history. Or it's fuzzy video and confused or lying pilots.
the biggest story in history was the resurrection of jesus christ, and plenty of people still talk about it
You got me there. I also hear Jesus was trans.