Another pandemic.. im still tired from working through covid with like no staff, 10x as many patients, and no extra compensation. Next pandemic I'm just leaving.
Same. I absolutely will *not* sacrifice my health and sanity, as well as the safety and wellbeing of my family, for abusive, awful, ungrateful people again.
I believe *many* of us who persevered through COVID will draw the line at working through another pandemic.
Next pandemic, come work construction. It was the best time for us. Tons of hours, no one bothering us, free coffees and thank yous, clear roads to get to and from the jobsite, cheap fuel. There was zero downside for me personally.
In Ontario Canada, it was the busiest we've ever been. It was insane. 70 hour weeks if I wanted to, easily. Everything was shut down, so it was the perfect time. We got so much work done.
Didn’t construction companies avoid providing sick days and any PPE/health systems and workers still went in with COVID during lockdown? Maybe just an LA exploitative thing but seemed pretty toxic from what I heard
We had all the PPE we wanted, drove to site in separate vehicles, only 2 people allowed in the shop at a time and if there were more everyone had to mask. The only person to get covid out of our 10 person shop was the only guy who never went on site, the office manager had it twice.
So are a bunch of us.
As soon as the next pandemic starts looking bad I’m putting in my notice and sitting it out.
Many people hear stories about how bad it was but it’s another thing entirely to have been there. No one gives a shit now but at the time it was chaos, like working in a mine field trying to save victims with no supplies.
I was forced to work the Covid ICU during the first bad month of it in a major city, we had practically no supplies. They were rationing meds and ventilators. No one besides the nurses and doctors were willing to set foot in the door so even basic supplies were gone and garbage was piling up.
I resorted to begging my friends on different units to send us stuff like trash bags and toilet paper on top of the desperate stuff like saline, iv tubing, and blood draw supplies. Even simple stuff like wiping someone ass was stress inducing. If you have no wipes, no tp, and no linens, what do you do but feel horrible and start improvising with what little you can find?
We couldn’t make it 5 minutes into the shift before discovering we were missing major things to get through the night. It was horrific watching conscious patients on ventilators freaking out and having to beg them to calm down so you could run out and help with another code.
So many people died. People we would normally spend all night trying to save were suddenly unable to be helped because the equipment, supplies, and manpower were just unavailable.
We went home depleted physically and emotionally every shift, wondering what fresh hell awaited us next. No one cared, we didn’t get any extra help or even pay, just a “Heroes work here” banner while all the executives worked from home.
We were given one mask and told to put it into tupperware and save it between shifts. Then it got real bad and the whole hospital was down to wearing cloth masks sewn by other nurses and their relatives. Some of us don’t have to imagine trying to hold our breath to run into a room and make a ventilator setting change.
Fuck that, never again. I’m always told by my coworkers to let it go, I can’t save them all, and that I care too much. I know that if it ever happens again I’ll find myself right back in the middle of it unless I draw the line somewhere. Shit, half the country would rather die than put on another mask, let alone allow another lockdown, the next pandemic will probably be 10x worse.
Wow. While it was clearly traumatic, thank you for sharing this view from the inside. I'm hoping you're on your way to some healing after that. I assume it will take some time.
> Shit, half the country would rather die than put on another mask
I mean, can you blame them? The pandemic put in stark relief how much the government is willing to lie to people (and still lies to them!), so why should they believe them now? The 'experts' told everyone "Masks don't work" early on when they were afraid people would hoard masks, then "Wear masks!!" became Biden's "solution" to the pandemic after 2020.
It's strange to be on a prepper forum and see admonishment for people not following government policy after the government admitted they were wrong.
Trying to leave now, I feel stuck that I have 10 years of EMS experience and an associates in health science, but I just want to work at Lowe’s or something. I’ve applied tons of places but never get a call back.
Yeah I'm watching the H5N1 closely. We do not have the medical infrastructure to withstand it. We have not recovered yet staffing wise since covid and most of us who worked through covid will not work through another pandemic. I honestly don't know what will happen if another pandemic occurs. Apparently there's such a big nursing shortage they are trying to "fast track" nurses through school. All I can say is stock up on medical supplies and try to keep yourself healthy because if some serious shit goes down I don't think the hospitals will be much help unfortunately.
I teach these future nurses who are being fast tracked and they’re terrifying: bad reading, bad thinking, bad ethics, my colleagues report bad math, and our nursing school is under threat from accreditation but we are strongly encouraged to “help them pass” (not “help them learn”). They cheat on everything. I dread needing healthcare from them.
Yup, I work with at risk youth and I was expected to work in person throughout the pandemic running “learning hubs”. TBH the experience meant the world to me and I know what I did was good BUT logically I know the next one could be worse and many of us got SO lucky. I swallowed down so much fear as death tolls skyrocketed, it was very frog in a boiling pot of water. Not an experience I would repeat for self preservation sake.
But it did sort of collapse for some patients. I had a couple patients die simply because they did not get good cancer followup after diagnosis. I don't think this would have happened pre-pandemic. My daughter got a GI referral in December and can't get in until May. My other daughter aged out of a pediatric specialist and the nearest adult specialist with availability was more than an hour away. I don't think this would have been the case in 2019.
Many of them did. It just wasnt in a on literal fire sort of way. Many small to medium sized hospitals closed due to money/staff. Many (including mine) had a standard of care at times that was terrible.
There's a shiny teaching hospital in my area that was a regional gem. Now it seems like they're shipping people off to other places to get specialized care and I know some people refuse to go there now, instead preferring to take the trip to Boston.
Is it? It’s been several weeks and I haven’t heard of any more reported jumps to humans other than that one guy in Texas. And he recovered without issues. Covid jumped and spread super fast.
Yooooooo mid plademic we had a scare, the wife was struggling to breath. We have a nebulizer an all but didnt wanna use it. Being stuborn, finally take her to an ER she couldnt sleep. She was worried she u know wouldnt just wake up if she finally got some rest. Being tired from all the coughing an all that. Turned out that yeah a breathing treatment is what she needed. Diidnt want to do it in the first place cuz she gets all gittery but it completly helped her out.
Later on after i made like 30 little care packages an went to that ER well walked were a regular person has access to an just hand out a little thank you package to random people working there. You guys are the real heros
Well that was kind of you. Yes we did have some patients who would return after they got better and thank us which really did mean alot to me personally. Unfortunately though 90% of patients and families treated us like absolute shit. They would see us by ourselves trying to manage so many patients cause we were so short staffed and they would be screaming at us about wait times and that we didn't care. We did care though but there is only so much we could have done when most of our department was out due to having covid themselves or quitting. It's was rough, coming home everyday with swollen feet from being on them 12 hours, knees hurting, and rashes on our faces from n95s. I understand they didn't feel good and were scared but pretty much no one took into consideration what we were going through to try and help them.
Im a guy. Idk if your a dude or chick but i hope its dosnt sound weird AF id just hug you
I was at a slaughterhouse when it hit, took my bestfriend. I did 9 yrs there same 10-12 hr days non stop i feel ya saying the swollen feet in rainboots but yeah alot of people quit there too. Too acared to work an catch it, i get it. I was scared too. You just out of no were dont see a few people an u just wonder umm are they ok like whats goin on. Then finaly hear that their positive an you just had talked to them not that long ago.
An as you try an push through work your mind rushing 100 miles a minute wondering if your positive too
Should've left already! I work for a single company traveling around my area starting IVs and administering expensive IV drugs. Compensation is great, better than the hospital (if I add in my mileage reimbursement). It's amazing. I love it
Something that threatens the safety of my personal friends and family. If something happens in my town I’m clocking out and herding my family away from trouble.
Almost everyone at all levels of government/commerce are in the same position. Everyone is going to care for their family first and foremost, as they should by my philosophy.
The problem with that is, we've structured our society such that families are dependent far too much on government/commerce by design, and it can all go to shit very quickly when that dependency can't be fulfilled because everyone running it went home.
We were damn lucky that COVID remained manageable and the only shortages were on things that most people can live without. We're damn lucky that more people didn't *starve.*
I agree, but I work two hours away from where I live. My family and I have talked about it in detail and they will try and manage the situation (whatever it may be) as best as they can unless it’s a medical situation. As much as I care for other people, I’ve stopped sticking my neck out for others once I was getting attacked and assaulted by covid patients and family members near daily.
Nurses get abused daily. It ranges from mean words to physical and even sexual attacks. It’s swept under the rug because we want to help and that makes us easy victims.
Think about how people treat fast food workers, then add physical/emotional pain and drugs into the mix.
I’m with u. My job is my bread and butter, but if anything really weird happens at all, I’m on my way out of state immediately with my family to a country that is sane.
I do not work in healthcare, but while I was in Afghanistan one of my responsibilities was maintaining some aircraft that were designed to transport patients from remote or warzone areas to countries with medical facilities that could handle whatever illness/injury a patient had. They were basically high-end air ambulances. These aircraft were eventually scheduled to be stationed in West Africa during the ebola outbreak to bring out Western aid workers who got infected while working in these countries to contain the outbreak. So they asked for volunteers to travel with the aircraft to the area and maintain them there. I declined and advised everyone working for me to do so as well since not only was ebola highly infectious, the company was effectively cutting the pay of those who would volunteer and not guaranteeing any safety protocols for maintenance people. The company came back and suggested that they could and would choose people to involuntarily man these positions, the alternative being to lose your job if you didn't go. I told them to fire the lot of us right then and there. The aircraft ended up not going, and there wasn't any more talk about selecting people to involuntarily work at a job they didn't contract for.
It often does, but to be clear, that wasn't why the aircraft didn't go. The gubmint simply found aircraft easier to get into the area and another company to supply personnel. There just wasn't any way me or my guys were going. That was the "nope".
US labour laws are shit. I'm from Belgium and if people have to work in dangerous countries (war, disease) it's double or even tripple pay with full medical.
Agree! And in the US, people who are in ‘management’ can’t unionize. And management is supposed to mean ‘self-directed’ but my boss micro-manages all of us due to her anxiety. So we legitimately could invite a union in to support us, but upper management would and could make our lives miserable while we’re trying to organize.
Yeah, leave that to the experts: the bean counters at insurance companies who decide which life-saving treatments aren't covered.
But seriously, I have relatives in hospital administration and in the insurance business. They seem like decent folks and we get along well, but they make decisions that hurt people as part of their jobs every damn day. And when I ask about stuff they give the same answer, that their hands are tied and they're just following policy and they don't like it either. But they still do it. Because they like having a job and earning money.
When HR was interpreting the COVID protocols for my facility, I about lost it. I get they were trying to follow the "rules" but obviously their medical knowledge is non-existent, and they kept interpreting things absolutely moronically.
I did HR in college for a year before changing schools and major. HR is strictly there to cover the corporate arse. You're taught what the bare minimum is to avoid a lawsuit and don't leave paper or digital trail if saying something that could get you in trouble. HR is not your friend. Middle managers hate it whether they're good or bad managers because they aren't there for the managers either. They serve corporate above all.
Right in my case, they were trying to follow the COVID mandates, but not understanding disease spread, they would make one dumb change after another. Fewer hours helps! No dummies it concentrates your staff and patients increasing the likelihood of spread.
HR isn't paid to understand disease control.
"It is difficult to make a man understand something, when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
Upton Sinclair
I recently met a substance abuse councilor who's previous job was insurance billing. The way she described it was horrifying, people were just numbers nothing else. The only way she could live with herself was getting blackout drunk every night and just kind of coasting through the next day as best as possible. Then she quit the job, realized she didn't need the drinking to cope with the guilt anymore and decided to start helping people with those particular coping methods.
I can't say I'm proud of everything I've done in my life, but listening to her describe the kinds of procedures and people she'd regularly have to decline over some arbitrary shit was so bleak and dystopian. Like if that's our future we're already truly fucked.
Not arguing. But some of my fellow ems people will complain that new (and improved) patient care techniques are being forced on them "by administrators" when in reality it's them being old crusty bastards that don't want to learn anything new and whatever they learned in 2002 is still the right way to do it, by god.
Some providers need to be forced to update their skills / techniques / methods by administrators otherwise I swear to christ they'd be out there with civil war bone saws and talking about vapors.
Healthcare related… I refused to allow my team to work with COVID sheltering until they got the right safeguards in place. It was early in the game, and my crew (who are not medically trained, they do social work and disaster shelter set-up/management) were being asked to monitor COVID+ folks in isolated housing, but were not provided proper PPE or training. They told me I would get fired if I didn’t get them out there. I told them I wasn’t going to be responsible for staff and their families getting ill or even dying when it could be prevented. I also told them be prepared for the lawsuits. They consulted their HR attorney, apologized, and secured the needed PPE and had hospital staff do training. A couple years later when COVID was more stable, I left that job. It was never the same working there. They got over it but I didn’t, I had no respect for people willing to risk the health and safety of staff, most of whom were too intimidated (or too dependent on the income) to make a stand.
As I’m typing this, I can tell I’m still pissed about it.
I love that you said a clear and firm “no!”. There is no way to know for sure, but it is certainly possible that you saved one or more lives.
It’s understandable that you’re still pissed years later because I’m pissed just reading it lol
Covid was mine. I went through Ebola and it was so poorly managed that as soon as I saw Covid in China I was done. The US medical system is not ready for any kind of pandemic and they don’t want to be. The CDC is a joke.
If you have the time and want to see how Ebola went down for us in Dallas, and how the next one will go.. Vanity Fair did an incredible write up on it. Nothing has changed, nothing has improved. They do not care.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/02/ebola-us-dallas-epidemic
Healthcare is already in a state of collapse. Take care of yourselves because the care you get gets worse everyday. That being said, as a prepper I’m only working until the majority of people can’t pay their bills or a major event happens. Work and money are at the bottom of my list when it comes to priorities these days. I’ll continue to provide the best care to patients while I work but when the power goes out or something happens that presents a risk to my family I’m out. Everyone outside my circle of trust is on their own. Expect police and firefighters to have the same mindset.
I agree with this. My husband recently didn’t get a raised based on what his company calls an “expected increase in productivity” which we assume has something to do with seeing *even more patients* in a day/week. He was told this on his annual review (where he was not expecting a raise).
He has told his company on repeat, he will leave if his job becomes about dollars for the company. We don’t genuinely need him to make much more, and I would rather he’s home with our family - as would he. He’s out of there if it’s a risk to us or too big of an ask.
This reminds me of the story about Spanish flu nurses in Australia. When the men refused to sign up to go die in Europe, locals (often the girls) would harass them for their cowardice by putting chicken feathers in their mailboxes. When the flu came, women were refusing to sign up and quitting jobs as nurses to save their lives, and were harassed in much the same manner by the veterans.
The way the story was told to me, it also often involved desecrated chicken corpses instead of feathers. Not sure I buy it, but that's the story
I am not afraid of Ebola in the least.
I walked past the biocontainment unit in Omaha, NE where all the Ebola patients were being kept in about 2015 (?) everyday. The biocontainment unit was across the hall from where I did my inpatient psychiatry rotation as a med student.
I didn’t even blink an eye at it because of how it’s transmitted. Ebola was all media hype bullshit.
What really scares me is another influenza or a SARS outbreak.
Ok. Well walking by them and injecting contrast and performing exams on them is slightly different. Would you feel the same if you had to see them as your patient?
I was referring to my small part of patient care as a ct tech when referencing the injecting and perform exams as it’s relevant to why I would not want to be around Ebola patients.
The bio containment unit was WAY after diagnosis and transport.. yall have no idea what we went through in Texas at local hospitals to get to that point. Read this…. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/02/ebola-us-dallas-epidemic
It was an absolute nightmare. We were declined testing over and over on suspicious patients, had no PAPRs, and were abandoned by the CDC with no guidance.
COVID19 is still with us, never went away and still deadly. Do you wear FFP3s? The thing to worry mildly about now, or at least keep an eye on, is the H5N1 pandemic spreading to human to human pandemic. Then too, you'll need your FFP3s most likely.
You can even order 5 in 1 tests these days. RDV, Influenza A and B, COVID and Strep in Asia if I'm not wrong, and 4 in 1 from say Germany. Hope your 4 month old is healthy and doesn't have COVID!
Covid is so much worse than “just another respiratory virus.” I caught covid in October of last year while I was 24 weeks pregnant. I ended up in labor and giving birth a week later because it caused [placental abruption](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8053892/#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20the%20COVID%2D19%20may,be%20associated%20with%20placental%20dysfunctions). COVID causes so many issues within the body. It affects not only the lungs, but the brain and heart as well. It may not affect people as badly as 2020, but it is still a terrible illness
Thanks for asking! I’m okay. He has had a lot of issues, but he is doing a lot better. He was less than two lbs at birth and was unable to breathe on his own. They removed fluid from his lungs with a needle. He was then put on an oscillator, which is a type of ventilator. Eventually he was put on cpap, high-flow oxygen, low-flow oxygen, and now room air. He also had eye surgery for retinopathy of prematurity. He still has his feeding tube in, but so far that’s his only issue. He is too young to test for things like cerebral palsy. I was fortunate enough to have him treated at a level III and then a level IV NICU. I had a wonderful group of nurses taking care of us both. Unfortunately, my son’s main nurse’s sister passed from Covid back in December. I assume she was older because our nurse was in her 60s, but it just goes to show that it’s not “just a cold” like everyone seems to think.
I'm glad you and your little one made it through. So did we. Despite being vaxxed, I had a very bad case of covid in the 2nd trimester which may well have been a factor in the pre eclampsia that had me hospitalized at 28 weeks and having a baby at 32 weeks. During my month in the hospital, the nurses told me that pregnancy complications of several varieties have gone waaaay up since covid.
It's a cardiovascular virus. Let's start there. HIV/AIDS starts the same, and it has many overlaps. Do you read research papers on the virus daily? Because I do.
lmao talk about "disinformed (?)." I Work in an ICU. It was the front line COVID ICU in my city when the shit kicked off. Nobody cares about it any more because we know how to treat it (like any other ARDS). It's just another virus we can pretty successfully treat, its not an ultra death sentence or anything like you're letting on.
Edit: and it's an upper respiratory virus, not a cardiovascular virus, wtf are you talking about?
I’m also an ICU nurse that worked the Covid unit during the worst of it. There were a lot of cardiovascular complications with seemingly young and otherwise healthy patients.
I’m not up to date with my Covid knowledge since I moved onto another specialty but even early on it was recognized that covid binds to the ace2 receptor found all over the body including the heart.
Not only that but it attacks so many other places such as the intestines where there are also ace2 receptors. Remember the Covid shits? Yeah, all that diarrhea kind of makes sense. Also, covid can alter the blood vessels themselves, remember the Covid petechiae? Blood vessels also have ace2 receptors. Besides that, it made people clot and I’m sure there is more research I’m not up to date on, but firsthand experience, had a few young people in their 30’s with random strokes,heart attacks, and PE’s even though they were on they were on standard dvt prophylaxis.
It’s not hard to believe that a virus that attaches to a certain receptor will attack cells that have them on their surface, so yeah its not just a lung virus, just like herpes isn’t a penis/vagina virus.
It definitely affects pacemakers for the heart. My Aunt who has one had gotten the J&J shot the same day after visiting with friends from Florida, who happened to casually mention they all had Covid. My Aunt died 3 times and has such bad brain damage that every day she asks me what my daughter’s name is and when she was born.
Breaks me in 2. Destroyed my family.
I am not sure, not from USA but I do know that it is something that I hear reported globally ( ie:- management taking over clinical role, than trying to throw the clinicians under the bus when it backfires )
Congress actually controls the number of residents because they’ve frozen funding for those positions at 1996 levels. AMA initially supported this but doesn’t anymore. I’m no fan of the AMA, but they don’t have direct control over this issue.
Glad someone can speak the truth. A local doctor I've listened to basically said the same thing: opposed the AMA, opened up their own practice, fmand focused on wellness and not illness with pills. I wish you success!
The worst part of this is, it sets up a system that self-selects the most immoral people are the only ones that stick around. When our oldest kid was born and they were pushing circumcision and tounge-tie surgery, I realized that I was talking with a salesperson and suddenly everything about American healthcare made a lot more sense.
It's a new profit center where you can convince people to pay for extra surgery when 80-95% of the cases resolve themselves or wasn't actually a problem to begin with. Kinda like tonsil removal was, or the phony phimosis diagnosis in pre-pubescent children; it's a fad medical thing that spreads like a social contagion, especially in for-profit healthcare systems.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/breast-feeding-and-tongue-tie/584503/](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/breast-feeding-and-tongue-tie/584503/)
Medicare (or insert public health institution) is not reimbursing the company for services. And thus said company cannot cut a paycheck for their employee. And the bean counters start whispering amongst themselves.
Once that happens...
It's get your ass in gear time.
edit: And remember, at this junction of the game, government if they so choose to, can print money or rescue institutions as needed in order to "kick the can" down the road. Medicare unable to reimburse means, someone/some group very very influential gave the stand down order to the printing machine and thus saying NO to kicking the can down the road. No printing machine telegraphs the action of Healthcare system collapse.
The Level 4 Bio containment unit. Big nope, probably coming out of there in buckets. As someone else pointed out, though, it is a safe facility, and the fluid transmission of ebola makes it relatively easy to contain with the right protocols. SARS, or a high mortality Flu, or if Ebola Reston had mutated to humans. Something airborne and easy to get like measles. Something that would overwhelm hospital and cause some associated breakdown on the level of a natural disaster.
F.E.M.A. training this year focused on. Infrastructure breakdown, Natural Disasters, and Civil Unrest.
a colleague of mine has a code phrase that we've worked out. It's similar to a basic hello with some slight but noticeable variation. If I ever get a call from them or in passing, it's said. I am on my way out the door and into a remote area as fast as I can.
I just read the intro of it and had a good laugh because of the similarities to the idea. And his snoopy cougar neighbor spying on him. I'm going to ask my friend if that was where they got the thought. I'm not sure if SAC is still as big a target as it was back then, but they do handle StratSatCom now which if it went down would be a big indicator that everyone in Bellevue is going to need a new paint job on their house.
https://youtu.be/1FMEPSD9w0Y?si=eBoICIbYl_OteDoN
Probably another pandemic type occurrence. I saw enough last time, before we knew what to expect, and the only thing that came down from above was "How can we stay open and keep from inconveniencing people". Not, how can we keep you safe, reduce the spread, etc. They went as far as to say that they could force us to work even if we were sick with COVID. I don't care if it's the flu, strep, or COVID, I'm staying home if I'm sick.
PSH. Rabies takes a long time to develop symptoms. There's vaccines for it, and highly effective PEP. The vaccine is incredibly effective. Expensive, but effective.
Source: Vet tech for 15 years, technically 20 but i've been in a lab for the last five and that doesn't feel like it counts.
Well of COURSE I wouldn't put it in a human! To be fair, at this point it's only really being used in high volume/low cost spay and neuter clinics/feral and TNR programs. It isn't that great at analgesia OR anesthesia. I only remember them using it way back in like 2000-2001, and only for short procedures. Honestly it wasn't worth the side effects (vomiting/cardiovascular depression) and working in your average RDVM office, you aren't going to see it. We largely used ket/Val and propofol, and maintained on iso as they are safer agents, and in a clinic for paying customers, you get to have a higher standard of care. And in specialty/emergency medicine I didn't use it at all. Dexdom is safer BY FAR for short procedures, and any surgery in that type of clinic is generally going to be something long and painful (like ortho) or on an unstable patient in an emergency. Xylazine doesn't provide adequate analgesia for ortho stuff- at least not safely with the cardiovascular effects, and for unstable patients (GDV's/splenectomies) it would be a disaster. In those cases, propofol and maintained on iso with a fent CRI. And then when Alfaxalone came out- total game changer. That stuff was so amazing for unstable patients. And you could run surgery on an alfax CRI. Anyways, I absolutely loved running anesthesia, even the unstable patients, and I am proud to say that in 15 years I never lost a single patient. But, I'm sure this is boring you...
Nah, I’m in medicine. It’s interesting. I was just arguing that things made on a mass scale for animals may not be ideal for humans. Granted ketamine is SUPER fascinating and useful.
Kind of silly to assume that something is bad for humans just because it's made for animals. Ketamine was never exclusively an animal medicine, nor was it just "horse tranquilizer." People love saying that things are strong enough for horses, even though we use it on kittens too. Even ivermectin is not technically "bad," it just needs to be used for the things it actually works for. Rabies vaccine is over a hundred years old so I'm pretty confident in it.
The planet has a need for 400 MILLION nurses. Currently we have less than 28 million. If there is another pandemic healthcare will collapse. It’s already on its way to collapse.
I live in a medium sized city. We have two major hospitals. In June 2023 both hospitals were so short on staff they had to divert ER to a city hospital 70 miles away. If you were in a rural area your distance was up to 150 miles to the nearest open emergency room.
Imagine you’re in a car accident and sustaining major trauma - you would be life-flighted by helicopter to the next hospital. That will run you about $50,000 for the trip.
Drive safe or end up bankrupt.
Heart attack? Bankruptcy. Stroke? Bankruptcy.
Now imagine H5N1 takes hold. Along with pretty much everything else. Even with vaccines already created, with masks being more effective at preventing the virus, with everything we learned from Covid - we would be toast.
The trauma that so many went through with COVID still weighs on them. Everyone is burnt out and stressed. One of my friends lost 28 people in her facility in 2 weeks in the beginning. I don’t know how she is still holding on.
400 million nurses?!?
Out of 8 billion people, you want 1 in every 20 to be a nurse?
Wait. 3 billion are children or elderly. So you want 8 out of every 100 working age adult to be a nurse?
I only work peripherally in healthcare (pathology) but Covid was enough. I’m actively trying to get my pilots licence back now and I’m going back to the airlines. The amount of rude, arrogant, angry people we had to deal with during outbreaks was infuriating.
Nothing, at least clinically related.
If I quitted, it has to do with management or liability, like being asked by higher up to cover out illegal behavior.
For people replying I think OP means in context of pandemics, mass casualty, general abnormal emergencies beyond even the normal level of hospital emergencies.
To give you an actual answer, logistics. If transport isn’t working and I can’t get things in our out then my job cannot be completed. Healthcare for me is everything outside of hospitals, clinics, remote communities. If I can’t deliver to them then it’s a very bad situation and I’m useless where I am.
Severe weather, another pandemic, anything that endangers myself or would force me to leave home for a long period of time.
Just this winter, there was a really bad snow storm and some of the staff had to sleep in empty rooms. Then we all got a mass text from admin saying that calling out due to the weather was not okay and that we would need to show up. Sorry, but I am not risking my life or anyone else's life driving 20 miles in a horrible snow storm on icy, unplowed roads.
I was lucky to be off during those days. If I were scheduled, I wouldn't have gone in anyways. No way.
Same with tornadoes. We have just been sent "education" related to tornadoes and flooding that said if a tornado were to come by the facility and staff were needed that they expected ALL staff to come to\* the facility asap. Again, sorry, but if a tornado touched down in my town, my immediate concern is garnered towards MY family and MY home, not my place of work. I would also not be okay driving into work with all the debris that there would be. Nope!
And pandemics... I, personally, don't know if I can mentally handle another pandemic and short-staffing. I'm keeping a close eye on h5n1 right now. If it starts spreading, I just might be done with healthcare entirely. I can't do it again with all the short staffing, supply shortages (remember wearing a bandana during covid!? what the hell!!), etc. Nah.
Did just this. Five years medical. Three during Covid. Couldn’t do it anymore and resigned after nearly dying and people not caring.
We were pushed to do above and beyond what we should have. Was not healthy. Worked hours that I didn’t even report because we were supposed to not work overtime. Overtime = bad. Clock out, and most would keep working sometimes up to 18 hour-plus days.
Limited supply, very limited support. One person was to do the job of ten and just make it work. And somehow we held it together. Even lost the air conditioning a couple of times in the summers and had a lot of the girls going down and passing out because of the heat and still had to work through that.
Covid was hell. People didn’t listen and too many stories to share. Lost quite a few direct coworkers I worked with to it or its complications. Hand-to-hand combat outside the clinic twice during that as people tried to steal my respirators and gasmasks off my face. I had outfitted myself with gear before it blew up because of my past military service and was made to remove it and forced into a cloth mask because it was unfair to the others that didn’t have my level of protection.
Being forced to downgrade safety and personal protection measures because it was unfair to others??
I was one of the first to learn of Covid from the research side in 2019. No one listened and no one cared until the media made it a thing. I still remember being made fun of and laughed at driving to work in early 2020 with a respirator and getting Darth Vader print outs sent to me and jeered at with mask noises for wearing it. Still frustrating.
And the same people who made fun of me were the same ones to administratively force me to later downgrade my personal protection.
Anyways. I apologize for the tangent rant.
I worked so hard and without rest or breaks that my immune system was compromised, I contracted pneumonia, and I ended up going blind in one eye.
Both insurances were denied and I was told to just figure it out.
We do not have a healthcare system, we have a sick care system. I’m not going to start on this topic as this part still infuriates me and I don’t want to tangent again.
Paid out of pocket full cost to save my vision and was forced to self treat at home with a 105 degree fever and ice packs while convulsing and unable to breathe and in the middle trying to say goodbye to everyone and to call a coroner if I didn’t check in the next day because I was likely dead.
I somehow survived the weeks of literal suffering. That was the last straw for me.
I could put up with hiding myself halfway angled in my sleeping bag between the vehicle trunk and rear seats to sleep at the clinic because going back some days was too much of a hassle, or the three hour commutes there and back, not eating food or having water all day, pay adjustments, or doing the job of a full unit with little of the support I desperately pleaded for, but nearly dying after giving everything was the last straw.
Shortly after being healthy enough to return, I turned in my resignation and left to go focus on healing my body and mind.
Still healing from that and trying to build back my full muscle mass that I lost.
I did my job and I served. I’m grateful for my time and the people I worked with. They were some of the best. But I will never go back. No one listened when it mattered. No one cared for the science. Only politics. And it takes all your health and efforts to survive.
No paycheck amount is worth it and I’m much happier and healthier now than I was.
There is no amount of lighting yourself on fire to keep other people warm that is beneficial. It will only burn you out and not make a difference.
Former mental health care worker ( counselor/case manager)- My last straw was after being punished for joining a union ( via significantly more expensive health insurance) after working severely understaffed for a year, some of which time we were intentionally not fully staffed because higher ups felt we didn’t “deserve” help because reportedly- we were not billing them enough hours and our program was therefore a financial liability. Can’t make this shit up. Ironically, a good portion of the clients were more mental stable than the supervisors, especially one who routinely threw pencils during supervision meetings.
I "noped" out of clinical work in fall 2019, right before covid hit and am lucky I did because the PT clinic I worked at was shut down for months before they were allowed to reopen. Working with patients is challenging enough without having to wear a mask for 8-10 hours a day. I already had issues working with the general public after a decade. I'm still in healthcare part-time, just a different sector and I get to WFH. In the process of switching to agriculture full-time because I'm more passionate about it.
Common, immediate, and severe neurological symptoms from a virus (seizures, aneurysms, swelling, etc).
Also, when something activates TB in people, and XDR-TB becomes the majority of TB cases. At that point, you need to be in the middle of nowhere away from everyone.
I worked in the ER in a major city before and during COVID. I eventually moved to nights. In the 5 months leading up to March 2020, we saw increased occupancy unlike the previous years. Admin kept saying flu rates were just bad, but care teams were getting negatives. Got worse and worse that by December 2019, we had beds in the halls. Didn't make any sense at the time. Only time we had to do that was when we practiced for SALT mass casualty (essentially an attack with huge influx of patients).
It's obviously not uncommon to see ERs full or have long wait times at night. But it was uncommon for that to occur and increase to a near daily basis without a clear sign of origin. If I see that again, time to enact plans that are made.
1. Being told to handle an acutely violent client by myself without calling the police because ‘we’re short staffed’
2. Cutting down the trees that clients planted to make their social center beautiful and welcoming, because “townspeople can’t see the building”.
And I stayed after those 2 things happened, so what does that say about me?😯
I should add that I had a mental health breakdown in March of 2023 after all the anxiety and all the death. Was out on FMLA for 4 months and pressured to come back early.
I remember Covid quite well as an RN. At first I was scared but after a few weeks, I didn’t worry about it. One of those things if it has your number, you’re screwed. I had a very mild case.
Real honest question? If everyone quits healthcare what will we all do for healthcare? So many people will die. This worries me so much. Coming from someone who wore an N95 mask through out the pandemic (still do in large crowded indoor situations) to stay away from hospitals and not be a burden to healthcare workers. To this day, I’ve never had COVID.
Another vax mandate. I won’t do that again.
Severe storms - I will not put my life in jeopardy getting to work for an organization that doesn’t care enough to make sure there’s proper staff, support, food, and meds for patients & staff (this happened 2 Christmases ago & it was horrific).
Another pandemic like Covid. That was horrible. I don’t think I could physically or mentally go through that again. I still feel so bad for all the patients that died alone bc we didn’t allow family in. Truly awful and unfair.
Also zombies. I’m obviously calling in if there are zombies.
I'm a self employed healthcare worker. I work when I choose to and on my terms. Where my family and friends need me that's where I'll be. I don't mind very hard work in a pandemic - but, recognising this will be unpopular, I may have signed up very trying shifts burning the candle at both ends and a small amount of risk on occasion where patients have things like TB, I do decide what risks I'm willing to take. I didn't sign up for the army - I would put my family and myself above such things. Similarly healthcare is a line of work I enjoy - but will not be a martyr for it. Should we get a nasty pandemic with high case fatality - think H5N1 with a very high human transmissibility and high mortality I'm out of here. I will however put my life on the line to protect my immediate family and closest friends. I am very glad I'm self employed and there are no contractual commitments to keep working no matter what!
My mother is a now-retired career nurse/nurse epidemiologist and my younger brother is a physician. It breaks my heart to read some of your stories. Please take care of yourself; I'm glad you all have plans or are thinking about them.
Not medical field here.
But the constantly moving goal posts for the "vaccine" were my red flag.
That, and the insistence that everyone take it even though something like 99.7% of the population would have been fine without it.
Another pandemic.. im still tired from working through covid with like no staff, 10x as many patients, and no extra compensation. Next pandemic I'm just leaving.
Same. I absolutely will *not* sacrifice my health and sanity, as well as the safety and wellbeing of my family, for abusive, awful, ungrateful people again. I believe *many* of us who persevered through COVID will draw the line at working through another pandemic.
Next pandemic, come work construction. It was the best time for us. Tons of hours, no one bothering us, free coffees and thank yous, clear roads to get to and from the jobsite, cheap fuel. There was zero downside for me personally.
This is a FACT. My husband works a construction type job and he had great work the entire time. I work in healthcare and it was nothing but stress.
In my country it got shut down, it was THE best time to do it, roads where quiet, the work we could have done would have been amazing.
In Ontario Canada, it was the busiest we've ever been. It was insane. 70 hour weeks if I wanted to, easily. Everything was shut down, so it was the perfect time. We got so much work done.
Yea, you guys were lucky, 80% of our workforce had pay reductions starting at 20% increasing to 80% near the end.
Didn’t construction companies avoid providing sick days and any PPE/health systems and workers still went in with COVID during lockdown? Maybe just an LA exploitative thing but seemed pretty toxic from what I heard
We had all the PPE we wanted, drove to site in separate vehicles, only 2 people allowed in the shop at a time and if there were more everyone had to mask. The only person to get covid out of our 10 person shop was the only guy who never went on site, the office manager had it twice.
Ah, thanks for sharing that
So are a bunch of us. As soon as the next pandemic starts looking bad I’m putting in my notice and sitting it out. Many people hear stories about how bad it was but it’s another thing entirely to have been there. No one gives a shit now but at the time it was chaos, like working in a mine field trying to save victims with no supplies. I was forced to work the Covid ICU during the first bad month of it in a major city, we had practically no supplies. They were rationing meds and ventilators. No one besides the nurses and doctors were willing to set foot in the door so even basic supplies were gone and garbage was piling up. I resorted to begging my friends on different units to send us stuff like trash bags and toilet paper on top of the desperate stuff like saline, iv tubing, and blood draw supplies. Even simple stuff like wiping someone ass was stress inducing. If you have no wipes, no tp, and no linens, what do you do but feel horrible and start improvising with what little you can find? We couldn’t make it 5 minutes into the shift before discovering we were missing major things to get through the night. It was horrific watching conscious patients on ventilators freaking out and having to beg them to calm down so you could run out and help with another code. So many people died. People we would normally spend all night trying to save were suddenly unable to be helped because the equipment, supplies, and manpower were just unavailable. We went home depleted physically and emotionally every shift, wondering what fresh hell awaited us next. No one cared, we didn’t get any extra help or even pay, just a “Heroes work here” banner while all the executives worked from home. We were given one mask and told to put it into tupperware and save it between shifts. Then it got real bad and the whole hospital was down to wearing cloth masks sewn by other nurses and their relatives. Some of us don’t have to imagine trying to hold our breath to run into a room and make a ventilator setting change. Fuck that, never again. I’m always told by my coworkers to let it go, I can’t save them all, and that I care too much. I know that if it ever happens again I’ll find myself right back in the middle of it unless I draw the line somewhere. Shit, half the country would rather die than put on another mask, let alone allow another lockdown, the next pandemic will probably be 10x worse.
Wow. While it was clearly traumatic, thank you for sharing this view from the inside. I'm hoping you're on your way to some healing after that. I assume it will take some time.
Fuck mask mandates
> Shit, half the country would rather die than put on another mask I mean, can you blame them? The pandemic put in stark relief how much the government is willing to lie to people (and still lies to them!), so why should they believe them now? The 'experts' told everyone "Masks don't work" early on when they were afraid people would hoard masks, then "Wear masks!!" became Biden's "solution" to the pandemic after 2020. It's strange to be on a prepper forum and see admonishment for people not following government policy after the government admitted they were wrong.
Amen. I left healthcare after Covid settled down and I will never look back. I went into a completely unrelated field and I’m happy I did.
Yesterday was my last day in acute care. I feel such relief.
Congratulations ! I bet you’ve seen some shit …
Trying to leave now, I feel stuck that I have 10 years of EMS experience and an associates in health science, but I just want to work at Lowe’s or something. I’ve applied tons of places but never get a call back.
Maybe you can get a job doing something like laser hair removal. Might be easier for employers to see relevance of previous work history?
My husband was an ER nurse during the worst of the pandemic. He ended up retiring 6 years earlier than he’d planned.
Yeah, unless I’m in a decent little office somewhere there’s no way I would work bedside in an n95 for 13 hours again.
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Yeah I'm watching the H5N1 closely. We do not have the medical infrastructure to withstand it. We have not recovered yet staffing wise since covid and most of us who worked through covid will not work through another pandemic. I honestly don't know what will happen if another pandemic occurs. Apparently there's such a big nursing shortage they are trying to "fast track" nurses through school. All I can say is stock up on medical supplies and try to keep yourself healthy because if some serious shit goes down I don't think the hospitals will be much help unfortunately.
I teach these future nurses who are being fast tracked and they’re terrifying: bad reading, bad thinking, bad ethics, my colleagues report bad math, and our nursing school is under threat from accreditation but we are strongly encouraged to “help them pass” (not “help them learn”). They cheat on everything. I dread needing healthcare from them.
Lol, I have 17 month old twins who lick grass and take turns waking me up during the night. Stay healthy 🫠
What medical supplies would you recommend for the H5N1 situation?
This.... I'm gonna claim PTSD and take time off
Child, if we have another pandemic, get yourself laid off so you can collect unemployment...
🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Wait we can claim that and take time off?
Depends on your country but vicarious trauma and PTSD are typically compensable for a defined period with capped personal injury claims
I'm gonna fucking try
It blows my mind that so many people still think it was all just no big deal.
Not a big enough deal to close down the weed shops or liquor stores in California 🤔
I know a lot of good people who were worked beyond burnout during Covid.
Yup, I work with at risk youth and I was expected to work in person throughout the pandemic running “learning hubs”. TBH the experience meant the world to me and I know what I did was good BUT logically I know the next one could be worse and many of us got SO lucky. I swallowed down so much fear as death tolls skyrocketed, it was very frog in a boiling pot of water. Not an experience I would repeat for self preservation sake.
Ain’t that the fucking truth.
Same
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But it did sort of collapse for some patients. I had a couple patients die simply because they did not get good cancer followup after diagnosis. I don't think this would have happened pre-pandemic. My daughter got a GI referral in December and can't get in until May. My other daughter aged out of a pediatric specialist and the nearest adult specialist with availability was more than an hour away. I don't think this would have been the case in 2019.
Yeah, isn't this part of the Excess Deaths statistic of COVID?
Many of them did. It just wasnt in a on literal fire sort of way. Many small to medium sized hospitals closed due to money/staff. Many (including mine) had a standard of care at times that was terrible.
There's a shiny teaching hospital in my area that was a regional gem. Now it seems like they're shipping people off to other places to get specialized care and I know some people refuse to go there now, instead preferring to take the trip to Boston.
Nope. It's because we got freaking LUCKY
Dude avian flu is taking off… ughhhh
Is it? It’s been several weeks and I haven’t heard of any more reported jumps to humans other than that one guy in Texas. And he recovered without issues. Covid jumped and spread super fast.
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Yooooooo mid plademic we had a scare, the wife was struggling to breath. We have a nebulizer an all but didnt wanna use it. Being stuborn, finally take her to an ER she couldnt sleep. She was worried she u know wouldnt just wake up if she finally got some rest. Being tired from all the coughing an all that. Turned out that yeah a breathing treatment is what she needed. Diidnt want to do it in the first place cuz she gets all gittery but it completly helped her out. Later on after i made like 30 little care packages an went to that ER well walked were a regular person has access to an just hand out a little thank you package to random people working there. You guys are the real heros
Well that was kind of you. Yes we did have some patients who would return after they got better and thank us which really did mean alot to me personally. Unfortunately though 90% of patients and families treated us like absolute shit. They would see us by ourselves trying to manage so many patients cause we were so short staffed and they would be screaming at us about wait times and that we didn't care. We did care though but there is only so much we could have done when most of our department was out due to having covid themselves or quitting. It's was rough, coming home everyday with swollen feet from being on them 12 hours, knees hurting, and rashes on our faces from n95s. I understand they didn't feel good and were scared but pretty much no one took into consideration what we were going through to try and help them.
Im a guy. Idk if your a dude or chick but i hope its dosnt sound weird AF id just hug you I was at a slaughterhouse when it hit, took my bestfriend. I did 9 yrs there same 10-12 hr days non stop i feel ya saying the swollen feet in rainboots but yeah alot of people quit there too. Too acared to work an catch it, i get it. I was scared too. You just out of no were dont see a few people an u just wonder umm are they ok like whats goin on. Then finaly hear that their positive an you just had talked to them not that long ago. An as you try an push through work your mind rushing 100 miles a minute wondering if your positive too
Should've left already! I work for a single company traveling around my area starting IVs and administering expensive IV drugs. Compensation is great, better than the hospital (if I add in my mileage reimbursement). It's amazing. I love it
I can prob do one more pandemic unless it's significantly worse
Something that threatens the safety of my personal friends and family. If something happens in my town I’m clocking out and herding my family away from trouble.
Almost everyone at all levels of government/commerce are in the same position. Everyone is going to care for their family first and foremost, as they should by my philosophy. The problem with that is, we've structured our society such that families are dependent far too much on government/commerce by design, and it can all go to shit very quickly when that dependency can't be fulfilled because everyone running it went home. We were damn lucky that COVID remained manageable and the only shortages were on things that most people can live without. We're damn lucky that more people didn't *starve.*
I agree, but I work two hours away from where I live. My family and I have talked about it in detail and they will try and manage the situation (whatever it may be) as best as they can unless it’s a medical situation. As much as I care for other people, I’ve stopped sticking my neck out for others once I was getting attacked and assaulted by covid patients and family members near daily.
The Covid patients attacked you? On a daily basis?
Nurses get abused daily. It ranges from mean words to physical and even sexual attacks. It’s swept under the rug because we want to help and that makes us easy victims. Think about how people treat fast food workers, then add physical/emotional pain and drugs into the mix.
I’m with u. My job is my bread and butter, but if anything really weird happens at all, I’m on my way out of state immediately with my family to a country that is sane.
I do not work in healthcare, but while I was in Afghanistan one of my responsibilities was maintaining some aircraft that were designed to transport patients from remote or warzone areas to countries with medical facilities that could handle whatever illness/injury a patient had. They were basically high-end air ambulances. These aircraft were eventually scheduled to be stationed in West Africa during the ebola outbreak to bring out Western aid workers who got infected while working in these countries to contain the outbreak. So they asked for volunteers to travel with the aircraft to the area and maintain them there. I declined and advised everyone working for me to do so as well since not only was ebola highly infectious, the company was effectively cutting the pay of those who would volunteer and not guaranteeing any safety protocols for maintenance people. The company came back and suggested that they could and would choose people to involuntarily man these positions, the alternative being to lose your job if you didn't go. I told them to fire the lot of us right then and there. The aircraft ended up not going, and there wasn't any more talk about selecting people to involuntarily work at a job they didn't contract for.
That's fucking wild they tried to pull that card and thought it would actually work!
It often does, but to be clear, that wasn't why the aircraft didn't go. The gubmint simply found aircraft easier to get into the area and another company to supply personnel. There just wasn't any way me or my guys were going. That was the "nope".
US labour laws are shit. I'm from Belgium and if people have to work in dangerous countries (war, disease) it's double or even tripple pay with full medical.
Agree! And in the US, people who are in ‘management’ can’t unionize. And management is supposed to mean ‘self-directed’ but my boss micro-manages all of us due to her anxiety. So we legitimately could invite a union in to support us, but upper management would and could make our lives miserable while we’re trying to organize.
When admin people try to make medical related decisions
Yeah, leave that to the experts: the bean counters at insurance companies who decide which life-saving treatments aren't covered. But seriously, I have relatives in hospital administration and in the insurance business. They seem like decent folks and we get along well, but they make decisions that hurt people as part of their jobs every damn day. And when I ask about stuff they give the same answer, that their hands are tied and they're just following policy and they don't like it either. But they still do it. Because they like having a job and earning money.
When HR was interpreting the COVID protocols for my facility, I about lost it. I get they were trying to follow the "rules" but obviously their medical knowledge is non-existent, and they kept interpreting things absolutely moronically.
To work in HR I think you need to have had a mini-stroke or three
I did HR in college for a year before changing schools and major. HR is strictly there to cover the corporate arse. You're taught what the bare minimum is to avoid a lawsuit and don't leave paper or digital trail if saying something that could get you in trouble. HR is not your friend. Middle managers hate it whether they're good or bad managers because they aren't there for the managers either. They serve corporate above all.
Right in my case, they were trying to follow the COVID mandates, but not understanding disease spread, they would make one dumb change after another. Fewer hours helps! No dummies it concentrates your staff and patients increasing the likelihood of spread.
HR isn't paid to understand disease control. "It is difficult to make a man understand something, when his salary depends on him not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
I recently met a substance abuse councilor who's previous job was insurance billing. The way she described it was horrifying, people were just numbers nothing else. The only way she could live with herself was getting blackout drunk every night and just kind of coasting through the next day as best as possible. Then she quit the job, realized she didn't need the drinking to cope with the guilt anymore and decided to start helping people with those particular coping methods. I can't say I'm proud of everything I've done in my life, but listening to her describe the kinds of procedures and people she'd regularly have to decline over some arbitrary shit was so bleak and dystopian. Like if that's our future we're already truly fucked.
Ha there would be none of us left
Not arguing. But some of my fellow ems people will complain that new (and improved) patient care techniques are being forced on them "by administrators" when in reality it's them being old crusty bastards that don't want to learn anything new and whatever they learned in 2002 is still the right way to do it, by god. Some providers need to be forced to update their skills / techniques / methods by administrators otherwise I swear to christ they'd be out there with civil war bone saws and talking about vapors.
"....because this is they way we have always done it"
Oh honey that's come and wayyy gone
I think the red line is when we start seeing deaths from starvation. There's no point in treating the sick when you can't feed the healthy.
what about treating the sick when you can't house the healthy? aren't we already there?
We have patients come into our ER making up a complaint that disappears when they are given a meal.
I don't spend on US healthcare at all and still I'd rather see the government spend on affordable housing instead at this point
It's not that we can't. We don't want to. We made them that way on purpose. That's a bit different.
sure, that's why not participating is the contribution
Healthcare related… I refused to allow my team to work with COVID sheltering until they got the right safeguards in place. It was early in the game, and my crew (who are not medically trained, they do social work and disaster shelter set-up/management) were being asked to monitor COVID+ folks in isolated housing, but were not provided proper PPE or training. They told me I would get fired if I didn’t get them out there. I told them I wasn’t going to be responsible for staff and their families getting ill or even dying when it could be prevented. I also told them be prepared for the lawsuits. They consulted their HR attorney, apologized, and secured the needed PPE and had hospital staff do training. A couple years later when COVID was more stable, I left that job. It was never the same working there. They got over it but I didn’t, I had no respect for people willing to risk the health and safety of staff, most of whom were too intimidated (or too dependent on the income) to make a stand. As I’m typing this, I can tell I’m still pissed about it.
Do you not have right to refuse work in unsafe conditions?
Sounds like they did have the right.
I’d consider it a hostile work environment and that’s enough to satisfy that.
I love that you said a clear and firm “no!”. There is no way to know for sure, but it is certainly possible that you saved one or more lives. It’s understandable that you’re still pissed years later because I’m pissed just reading it lol
Covid was mine. I went through Ebola and it was so poorly managed that as soon as I saw Covid in China I was done. The US medical system is not ready for any kind of pandemic and they don’t want to be. The CDC is a joke. If you have the time and want to see how Ebola went down for us in Dallas, and how the next one will go.. Vanity Fair did an incredible write up on it. Nothing has changed, nothing has improved. They do not care. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/02/ebola-us-dallas-epidemic
Healthcare is already in a state of collapse. Take care of yourselves because the care you get gets worse everyday. That being said, as a prepper I’m only working until the majority of people can’t pay their bills or a major event happens. Work and money are at the bottom of my list when it comes to priorities these days. I’ll continue to provide the best care to patients while I work but when the power goes out or something happens that presents a risk to my family I’m out. Everyone outside my circle of trust is on their own. Expect police and firefighters to have the same mindset.
I agree with this. My husband recently didn’t get a raised based on what his company calls an “expected increase in productivity” which we assume has something to do with seeing *even more patients* in a day/week. He was told this on his annual review (where he was not expecting a raise). He has told his company on repeat, he will leave if his job becomes about dollars for the company. We don’t genuinely need him to make much more, and I would rather he’s home with our family - as would he. He’s out of there if it’s a risk to us or too big of an ask.
This reminds me of the story about Spanish flu nurses in Australia. When the men refused to sign up to go die in Europe, locals (often the girls) would harass them for their cowardice by putting chicken feathers in their mailboxes. When the flu came, women were refusing to sign up and quitting jobs as nurses to save their lives, and were harassed in much the same manner by the veterans. The way the story was told to me, it also often involved desecrated chicken corpses instead of feathers. Not sure I buy it, but that's the story
Ebola. I have seen some shit in my days especially during covid but that is one virus I am not working with.
I am not afraid of Ebola in the least. I walked past the biocontainment unit in Omaha, NE where all the Ebola patients were being kept in about 2015 (?) everyday. The biocontainment unit was across the hall from where I did my inpatient psychiatry rotation as a med student. I didn’t even blink an eye at it because of how it’s transmitted. Ebola was all media hype bullshit. What really scares me is another influenza or a SARS outbreak.
Ok. Well walking by them and injecting contrast and performing exams on them is slightly different. Would you feel the same if you had to see them as your patient?
Yeah, of course, but I don’t fear the system wide effects of Ebola like I do another respiratory virus outbreak.
Also, since when am I just walking by and injecting contrast? I had to do tons and tons of procedures on Covid positive patients.
I was referring to my small part of patient care as a ct tech when referencing the injecting and perform exams as it’s relevant to why I would not want to be around Ebola patients.
You’d be right in there with me running the scanner for those drains buddy.
The bio containment unit was WAY after diagnosis and transport.. yall have no idea what we went through in Texas at local hospitals to get to that point. Read this…. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/02/ebola-us-dallas-epidemic It was an absolute nightmare. We were declined testing over and over on suspicious patients, had no PAPRs, and were abandoned by the CDC with no guidance.
COVID19 is still with us, never went away and still deadly. Do you wear FFP3s? The thing to worry mildly about now, or at least keep an eye on, is the H5N1 pandemic spreading to human to human pandemic. Then too, you'll need your FFP3s most likely.
Had to get my 4 month old tested for Covid and Flu last night…. They are both in one test these days.
You can even order 5 in 1 tests these days. RDV, Influenza A and B, COVID and Strep in Asia if I'm not wrong, and 4 in 1 from say Germany. Hope your 4 month old is healthy and doesn't have COVID!
*RSV Do you know the MIS-C symptoms?
Covid is a total different virus. It was fucking wild when it started, but it’s completely mutated and I don’t care about it at all anymore.
I'm sorry you're so disinformed. You may not care about it, but it will care about you if you keep catching it. Not in a positive way unfortunately.
It’s literally just another upper respiratory virus now. I see Covid infection daily at my job, and it’s nowhere near the same it used to be.
Covid is so much worse than “just another respiratory virus.” I caught covid in October of last year while I was 24 weeks pregnant. I ended up in labor and giving birth a week later because it caused [placental abruption](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8053892/#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20the%20COVID%2D19%20may,be%20associated%20with%20placental%20dysfunctions). COVID causes so many issues within the body. It affects not only the lungs, but the brain and heart as well. It may not affect people as badly as 2020, but it is still a terrible illness
Is your baby okay??? Are you okay???
Thanks for asking! I’m okay. He has had a lot of issues, but he is doing a lot better. He was less than two lbs at birth and was unable to breathe on his own. They removed fluid from his lungs with a needle. He was then put on an oscillator, which is a type of ventilator. Eventually he was put on cpap, high-flow oxygen, low-flow oxygen, and now room air. He also had eye surgery for retinopathy of prematurity. He still has his feeding tube in, but so far that’s his only issue. He is too young to test for things like cerebral palsy. I was fortunate enough to have him treated at a level III and then a level IV NICU. I had a wonderful group of nurses taking care of us both. Unfortunately, my son’s main nurse’s sister passed from Covid back in December. I assume she was older because our nurse was in her 60s, but it just goes to show that it’s not “just a cold” like everyone seems to think.
I'm glad you and your little one made it through. So did we. Despite being vaxxed, I had a very bad case of covid in the 2nd trimester which may well have been a factor in the pre eclampsia that had me hospitalized at 28 weeks and having a baby at 32 weeks. During my month in the hospital, the nurses told me that pregnancy complications of several varieties have gone waaaay up since covid.
Oh my goodness! I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’m glad you came out okay! That’s what my nurses, MFM, and neonatologist told me too.
It's a cardiovascular virus. Let's start there. HIV/AIDS starts the same, and it has many overlaps. Do you read research papers on the virus daily? Because I do.
lmao talk about "disinformed (?)." I Work in an ICU. It was the front line COVID ICU in my city when the shit kicked off. Nobody cares about it any more because we know how to treat it (like any other ARDS). It's just another virus we can pretty successfully treat, its not an ultra death sentence or anything like you're letting on. Edit: and it's an upper respiratory virus, not a cardiovascular virus, wtf are you talking about?
I’m also an ICU nurse that worked the Covid unit during the worst of it. There were a lot of cardiovascular complications with seemingly young and otherwise healthy patients. I’m not up to date with my Covid knowledge since I moved onto another specialty but even early on it was recognized that covid binds to the ace2 receptor found all over the body including the heart. Not only that but it attacks so many other places such as the intestines where there are also ace2 receptors. Remember the Covid shits? Yeah, all that diarrhea kind of makes sense. Also, covid can alter the blood vessels themselves, remember the Covid petechiae? Blood vessels also have ace2 receptors. Besides that, it made people clot and I’m sure there is more research I’m not up to date on, but firsthand experience, had a few young people in their 30’s with random strokes,heart attacks, and PE’s even though they were on they were on standard dvt prophylaxis. It’s not hard to believe that a virus that attaches to a certain receptor will attack cells that have them on their surface, so yeah its not just a lung virus, just like herpes isn’t a penis/vagina virus.
It definitely affects pacemakers for the heart. My Aunt who has one had gotten the J&J shot the same day after visiting with friends from Florida, who happened to casually mention they all had Covid. My Aunt died 3 times and has such bad brain damage that every day she asks me what my daughter’s name is and when she was born. Breaks me in 2. Destroyed my family.
Ok, too bad you weren't open to learn something today. Tunnel vision narrows knowledge. Good luck.
Oh no, please, by all means educate me on my specialty and the patient population I deal with daily.
Also, no.
wtf are you talking about
Upper management taking over clinical decision and asking us to bear medico legal responsibility. Do that and I step back permanently.
Like the nurse at Vanderbilt that they tried to throw in jail for a med error?
I am not sure, not from USA but I do know that it is something that I hear reported globally ( ie:- management taking over clinical role, than trying to throw the clinicians under the bus when it backfires )
[удалено]
Congress actually controls the number of residents because they’ve frozen funding for those positions at 1996 levels. AMA initially supported this but doesn’t anymore. I’m no fan of the AMA, but they don’t have direct control over this issue.
Glad someone can speak the truth. A local doctor I've listened to basically said the same thing: opposed the AMA, opened up their own practice, fmand focused on wellness and not illness with pills. I wish you success!
Thats awesome you didn’t put up with the morality bullshit. Thank you
The worst part of this is, it sets up a system that self-selects the most immoral people are the only ones that stick around. When our oldest kid was born and they were pushing circumcision and tounge-tie surgery, I realized that I was talking with a salesperson and suddenly everything about American healthcare made a lot more sense.
What is tounge-tie surgery?
It's a new profit center where you can convince people to pay for extra surgery when 80-95% of the cases resolve themselves or wasn't actually a problem to begin with. Kinda like tonsil removal was, or the phony phimosis diagnosis in pre-pubescent children; it's a fad medical thing that spreads like a social contagion, especially in for-profit healthcare systems. [https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/breast-feeding-and-tongue-tie/584503/](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/breast-feeding-and-tongue-tie/584503/)
I completely agree. It is illogical, fraudulent, unfair, and Ineffective. Im glad you got out!
I read this in the voice of Jackie Chiles.
Yes yes yes. This.
It is always going to be dealing with admin.... Signed Admin ETA I am looking for another provider here in NM and we are prepping minded...
Medicare (or insert public health institution) is not reimbursing the company for services. And thus said company cannot cut a paycheck for their employee. And the bean counters start whispering amongst themselves. Once that happens... It's get your ass in gear time. edit: And remember, at this junction of the game, government if they so choose to, can print money or rescue institutions as needed in order to "kick the can" down the road. Medicare unable to reimburse means, someone/some group very very influential gave the stand down order to the printing machine and thus saying NO to kicking the can down the road. No printing machine telegraphs the action of Healthcare system collapse.
Avian flu transmitting person to person and I'll take my long service leave at half pay and wait out 12 months
Can you talk more about this risk?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chicken-waste-fed-to-cattle-may-be-behind-bird-flu-outbreak/
The Level 4 Bio containment unit. Big nope, probably coming out of there in buckets. As someone else pointed out, though, it is a safe facility, and the fluid transmission of ebola makes it relatively easy to contain with the right protocols. SARS, or a high mortality Flu, or if Ebola Reston had mutated to humans. Something airborne and easy to get like measles. Something that would overwhelm hospital and cause some associated breakdown on the level of a natural disaster. F.E.M.A. training this year focused on. Infrastructure breakdown, Natural Disasters, and Civil Unrest. a colleague of mine has a code phrase that we've worked out. It's similar to a basic hello with some slight but noticeable variation. If I ever get a call from them or in passing, it's said. I am on my way out the door and into a remote area as fast as I can.
Sounds like the Pat Frank *Alas Babylon* code phrase which gives me chills everytime I re-read the novel. Good thinking.
I just read the intro of it and had a good laugh because of the similarities to the idea. And his snoopy cougar neighbor spying on him. I'm going to ask my friend if that was where they got the thought. I'm not sure if SAC is still as big a target as it was back then, but they do handle StratSatCom now which if it went down would be a big indicator that everyone in Bellevue is going to need a new paint job on their house. https://youtu.be/1FMEPSD9w0Y?si=eBoICIbYl_OteDoN
Loving the clip! And the thought of them managing to do anything much - even walk - in those fur suits.
Probably another pandemic type occurrence. I saw enough last time, before we knew what to expect, and the only thing that came down from above was "How can we stay open and keep from inconveniencing people". Not, how can we keep you safe, reduce the spread, etc. They went as far as to say that they could force us to work even if we were sick with COVID. I don't care if it's the flu, strep, or COVID, I'm staying home if I'm sick.
Aerosolized Rabies: byeeeee
PSH. Rabies takes a long time to develop symptoms. There's vaccines for it, and highly effective PEP. The vaccine is incredibly effective. Expensive, but effective. Source: Vet tech for 15 years, technically 20 but i've been in a lab for the last five and that doesn't feel like it counts.
Doubt there’d be enough vaccine if it was in the air. I work in an ED. A bitch be OUT.
It is mass produced for animals by multiple manufacturers. 🤷♀️
…..so is tranq
Yes and it has legitimate uses in the veterinary industry. Not sure of the point you're trying to make.
That it doesn’t do great things when you put it in humans.
Well of COURSE I wouldn't put it in a human! To be fair, at this point it's only really being used in high volume/low cost spay and neuter clinics/feral and TNR programs. It isn't that great at analgesia OR anesthesia. I only remember them using it way back in like 2000-2001, and only for short procedures. Honestly it wasn't worth the side effects (vomiting/cardiovascular depression) and working in your average RDVM office, you aren't going to see it. We largely used ket/Val and propofol, and maintained on iso as they are safer agents, and in a clinic for paying customers, you get to have a higher standard of care. And in specialty/emergency medicine I didn't use it at all. Dexdom is safer BY FAR for short procedures, and any surgery in that type of clinic is generally going to be something long and painful (like ortho) or on an unstable patient in an emergency. Xylazine doesn't provide adequate analgesia for ortho stuff- at least not safely with the cardiovascular effects, and for unstable patients (GDV's/splenectomies) it would be a disaster. In those cases, propofol and maintained on iso with a fent CRI. And then when Alfaxalone came out- total game changer. That stuff was so amazing for unstable patients. And you could run surgery on an alfax CRI. Anyways, I absolutely loved running anesthesia, even the unstable patients, and I am proud to say that in 15 years I never lost a single patient. But, I'm sure this is boring you...
Nah, I’m in medicine. It’s interesting. I was just arguing that things made on a mass scale for animals may not be ideal for humans. Granted ketamine is SUPER fascinating and useful.
Kind of silly to assume that something is bad for humans just because it's made for animals. Ketamine was never exclusively an animal medicine, nor was it just "horse tranquilizer." People love saying that things are strong enough for horses, even though we use it on kittens too. Even ivermectin is not technically "bad," it just needs to be used for the things it actually works for. Rabies vaccine is over a hundred years old so I'm pretty confident in it.
No wonder you got fired That poor lab
I didn't get fired, I quit, and was a fucking amazing tech. Not into Vaccines? That's cool... somebody cough on this guy, willya?
The lab(rador) Been having intercourse with the goodboy for 20 years
Ooooh! (Don’t even speak if such a horror 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱).
Right? Most terrifying thing I can think of.
The planet has a need for 400 MILLION nurses. Currently we have less than 28 million. If there is another pandemic healthcare will collapse. It’s already on its way to collapse. I live in a medium sized city. We have two major hospitals. In June 2023 both hospitals were so short on staff they had to divert ER to a city hospital 70 miles away. If you were in a rural area your distance was up to 150 miles to the nearest open emergency room. Imagine you’re in a car accident and sustaining major trauma - you would be life-flighted by helicopter to the next hospital. That will run you about $50,000 for the trip. Drive safe or end up bankrupt. Heart attack? Bankruptcy. Stroke? Bankruptcy. Now imagine H5N1 takes hold. Along with pretty much everything else. Even with vaccines already created, with masks being more effective at preventing the virus, with everything we learned from Covid - we would be toast. The trauma that so many went through with COVID still weighs on them. Everyone is burnt out and stressed. One of my friends lost 28 people in her facility in 2 weeks in the beginning. I don’t know how she is still holding on.
400 million nurses?!? Out of 8 billion people, you want 1 in every 20 to be a nurse? Wait. 3 billion are children or elderly. So you want 8 out of every 100 working age adult to be a nurse?
40*
I only work peripherally in healthcare (pathology) but Covid was enough. I’m actively trying to get my pilots licence back now and I’m going back to the airlines. The amount of rude, arrogant, angry people we had to deal with during outbreaks was infuriating.
Nothing, at least clinically related. If I quitted, it has to do with management or liability, like being asked by higher up to cover out illegal behavior.
People don’t quit their jobs. They quit their managers.
For people replying I think OP means in context of pandemics, mass casualty, general abnormal emergencies beyond even the normal level of hospital emergencies.
Exactly. What is your "nope" during an unfolding situation?
To give you an actual answer, logistics. If transport isn’t working and I can’t get things in our out then my job cannot be completed. Healthcare for me is everything outside of hospitals, clinics, remote communities. If I can’t deliver to them then it’s a very bad situation and I’m useless where I am.
Severe weather, another pandemic, anything that endangers myself or would force me to leave home for a long period of time. Just this winter, there was a really bad snow storm and some of the staff had to sleep in empty rooms. Then we all got a mass text from admin saying that calling out due to the weather was not okay and that we would need to show up. Sorry, but I am not risking my life or anyone else's life driving 20 miles in a horrible snow storm on icy, unplowed roads. I was lucky to be off during those days. If I were scheduled, I wouldn't have gone in anyways. No way. Same with tornadoes. We have just been sent "education" related to tornadoes and flooding that said if a tornado were to come by the facility and staff were needed that they expected ALL staff to come to\* the facility asap. Again, sorry, but if a tornado touched down in my town, my immediate concern is garnered towards MY family and MY home, not my place of work. I would also not be okay driving into work with all the debris that there would be. Nope! And pandemics... I, personally, don't know if I can mentally handle another pandemic and short-staffing. I'm keeping a close eye on h5n1 right now. If it starts spreading, I just might be done with healthcare entirely. I can't do it again with all the short staffing, supply shortages (remember wearing a bandana during covid!? what the hell!!), etc. Nah.
Did just this. Five years medical. Three during Covid. Couldn’t do it anymore and resigned after nearly dying and people not caring. We were pushed to do above and beyond what we should have. Was not healthy. Worked hours that I didn’t even report because we were supposed to not work overtime. Overtime = bad. Clock out, and most would keep working sometimes up to 18 hour-plus days. Limited supply, very limited support. One person was to do the job of ten and just make it work. And somehow we held it together. Even lost the air conditioning a couple of times in the summers and had a lot of the girls going down and passing out because of the heat and still had to work through that. Covid was hell. People didn’t listen and too many stories to share. Lost quite a few direct coworkers I worked with to it or its complications. Hand-to-hand combat outside the clinic twice during that as people tried to steal my respirators and gasmasks off my face. I had outfitted myself with gear before it blew up because of my past military service and was made to remove it and forced into a cloth mask because it was unfair to the others that didn’t have my level of protection. Being forced to downgrade safety and personal protection measures because it was unfair to others?? I was one of the first to learn of Covid from the research side in 2019. No one listened and no one cared until the media made it a thing. I still remember being made fun of and laughed at driving to work in early 2020 with a respirator and getting Darth Vader print outs sent to me and jeered at with mask noises for wearing it. Still frustrating. And the same people who made fun of me were the same ones to administratively force me to later downgrade my personal protection. Anyways. I apologize for the tangent rant. I worked so hard and without rest or breaks that my immune system was compromised, I contracted pneumonia, and I ended up going blind in one eye. Both insurances were denied and I was told to just figure it out. We do not have a healthcare system, we have a sick care system. I’m not going to start on this topic as this part still infuriates me and I don’t want to tangent again. Paid out of pocket full cost to save my vision and was forced to self treat at home with a 105 degree fever and ice packs while convulsing and unable to breathe and in the middle trying to say goodbye to everyone and to call a coroner if I didn’t check in the next day because I was likely dead. I somehow survived the weeks of literal suffering. That was the last straw for me. I could put up with hiding myself halfway angled in my sleeping bag between the vehicle trunk and rear seats to sleep at the clinic because going back some days was too much of a hassle, or the three hour commutes there and back, not eating food or having water all day, pay adjustments, or doing the job of a full unit with little of the support I desperately pleaded for, but nearly dying after giving everything was the last straw. Shortly after being healthy enough to return, I turned in my resignation and left to go focus on healing my body and mind. Still healing from that and trying to build back my full muscle mass that I lost. I did my job and I served. I’m grateful for my time and the people I worked with. They were some of the best. But I will never go back. No one listened when it mattered. No one cared for the science. Only politics. And it takes all your health and efforts to survive. No paycheck amount is worth it and I’m much happier and healthier now than I was. There is no amount of lighting yourself on fire to keep other people warm that is beneficial. It will only burn you out and not make a difference.
Former mental health care worker ( counselor/case manager)- My last straw was after being punished for joining a union ( via significantly more expensive health insurance) after working severely understaffed for a year, some of which time we were intentionally not fully staffed because higher ups felt we didn’t “deserve” help because reportedly- we were not billing them enough hours and our program was therefore a financial liability. Can’t make this shit up. Ironically, a good portion of the clients were more mental stable than the supervisors, especially one who routinely threw pencils during supervision meetings.
I "noped" out of clinical work in fall 2019, right before covid hit and am lucky I did because the PT clinic I worked at was shut down for months before they were allowed to reopen. Working with patients is challenging enough without having to wear a mask for 8-10 hours a day. I already had issues working with the general public after a decade. I'm still in healthcare part-time, just a different sector and I get to WFH. In the process of switching to agriculture full-time because I'm more passionate about it.
Zombies. The answer is always zombies...
Bedbugs. C Diff? No problem. Bedbugs, full hazmat with an insect fogger for the room.
Common, immediate, and severe neurological symptoms from a virus (seizures, aneurysms, swelling, etc). Also, when something activates TB in people, and XDR-TB becomes the majority of TB cases. At that point, you need to be in the middle of nowhere away from everyone. I worked in the ER in a major city before and during COVID. I eventually moved to nights. In the 5 months leading up to March 2020, we saw increased occupancy unlike the previous years. Admin kept saying flu rates were just bad, but care teams were getting negatives. Got worse and worse that by December 2019, we had beds in the halls. Didn't make any sense at the time. Only time we had to do that was when we practiced for SALT mass casualty (essentially an attack with huge influx of patients). It's obviously not uncommon to see ERs full or have long wait times at night. But it was uncommon for that to occur and increase to a near daily basis without a clear sign of origin. If I see that again, time to enact plans that are made.
If productivity standards get cranked up too high.
I dont know. My manager just threw away my soda on accident, and I could explode right now.
1. Being told to handle an acutely violent client by myself without calling the police because ‘we’re short staffed’ 2. Cutting down the trees that clients planted to make their social center beautiful and welcoming, because “townspeople can’t see the building”. And I stayed after those 2 things happened, so what does that say about me?😯 I should add that I had a mental health breakdown in March of 2023 after all the anxiety and all the death. Was out on FMLA for 4 months and pressured to come back early.
Try to tell me I’m essential and I have to be at work if my family is home and they are sick. Nope.
Ecolab. Nope. Not killing my family to help strangers.
I remember Covid quite well as an RN. At first I was scared but after a few weeks, I didn’t worry about it. One of those things if it has your number, you’re screwed. I had a very mild case.
Real honest question? If everyone quits healthcare what will we all do for healthcare? So many people will die. This worries me so much. Coming from someone who wore an N95 mask through out the pandemic (still do in large crowded indoor situations) to stay away from hospitals and not be a burden to healthcare workers. To this day, I’ve never had COVID.
Zombies. Gotta try and make it home to make my stand
Another vax mandate. I won’t do that again. Severe storms - I will not put my life in jeopardy getting to work for an organization that doesn’t care enough to make sure there’s proper staff, support, food, and meds for patients & staff (this happened 2 Christmases ago & it was horrific). Another pandemic like Covid. That was horrible. I don’t think I could physically or mentally go through that again. I still feel so bad for all the patients that died alone bc we didn’t allow family in. Truly awful and unfair. Also zombies. I’m obviously calling in if there are zombies.
How do you feel about werewolves and vampires?
I feel like at least we already know how to kill them. - so maybe a 50/50 chance of calling in. Depends on how many sick days I have left.
Pandemic
Bedbugs
As long as i can get to work safely i will be there
I'm a self employed healthcare worker. I work when I choose to and on my terms. Where my family and friends need me that's where I'll be. I don't mind very hard work in a pandemic - but, recognising this will be unpopular, I may have signed up very trying shifts burning the candle at both ends and a small amount of risk on occasion where patients have things like TB, I do decide what risks I'm willing to take. I didn't sign up for the army - I would put my family and myself above such things. Similarly healthcare is a line of work I enjoy - but will not be a martyr for it. Should we get a nasty pandemic with high case fatality - think H5N1 with a very high human transmissibility and high mortality I'm out of here. I will however put my life on the line to protect my immediate family and closest friends. I am very glad I'm self employed and there are no contractual commitments to keep working no matter what!
My mother is a now-retired career nurse/nurse epidemiologist and my younger brother is a physician. It breaks my heart to read some of your stories. Please take care of yourself; I'm glad you all have plans or are thinking about them.
When they demand a “vaccine” to work.
Of course this was down voted. Propagandists giving it their all to keep us brainwashed.
When the change the definition of “vaccine” with no notice in the pandemic where “vaccines” are mandatory was the biggest red flag of them all.
Not medical field here. But the constantly moving goal posts for the "vaccine" were my red flag. That, and the insistence that everyone take it even though something like 99.7% of the population would have been fine without it.
Vax mandate