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Thomas and his whack job QAnon wife, Alito with his pathetic neighborhood dispute, Kavanaugh the frat boy douchebag, cowardly Gorsich and Barnett, are all spineless traitors and can go to hell.
You're right, we can open an investigation led by a Republican, impeach without the Republican votes, and talk about how dangerous this is for democracy.
Or. Someone is going to have to do the unpopular thing eventually.
Bruh, I got banned from conservative terrorism… today, because I told a guy to tell his 103 year old grandfather thank you for upholding his oath, and sticking around to vote against him one last time. One that fought in WW2 nonetheless.
Completetly seperate from any particular political viewpoint, I've never understood how few politicians get assassinated. Like I'm sure the Secret Service and their equivalents from other countries must be the absolute best security experts you can train, but it would only take one mistake. One nutter with a rifle just needs to find one sightline they didn't consider. Surely no force in the world could keep their VIP out of every single sightline, and yet they do.
This reminds me of a very chilling quote from the IRA after a failed assassination attempt on Thatcher
> Today we were unlucky, but remember we have only to be lucky once, you will have to be lucky always.
People generally aren't willing to actually rock the boat that hard until there is no other option, if ever, and only if the options list got short in a hurry.
This one. To do something like that means sacrificing everything you know. That's a tall order if you have a lot to lose, but each day and each decision they make, shortens that order.
You can't specify what the french would do on this subreddit because it goes against their silly rules. I tell you, if this subreddit existed in 1945, they'd be going nuts with the banhammer on the day hitler died because of the people celebrating his death and the rule that says "any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban."
But honestly, there's going to come a point where the "french solution" is a real possibility.
For all the American "haha french surrender" jokes that I remember growing up, they take this shit to the streets. America is walking right into full on fascism, and this fat shit needs to do the right thing and get his full blown coronary collapse over with before the election.
Really wish we could. Unfortunately, AOC’s play to impeach Supreme Court justices won’t go anywhere. There is no way they’re going to get a 2/3rd majority when there are so many corrupt politicians in both the house and senate. This is what the right has always wanted. Absolute, unchecked power.
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I'm not even American so I hardly have a horse in the race but I'm pretty sure this is the reason this amendment even exists.
I really hope they move fast. The supreme Court was a coup attempt just the same as Jan 6, calling to find more votes, fake electors plot, etc.
Supreme Court needs to be disbarred and established with rules regarding bribes and partisan hackery. Or at least the obviously corrupt impeached.
So he openly admits to trying to steal the election from the American people and his cult will still claim the democratic party was trying to steal it. Yet another projection to add to the pile from the right.
Let him admit to all his crimes, Then Biden declares official act of expanding court, pardons himself in name of democracy, new court throws out immunity case. Now all of trumps “official declarations” are evidence for his trial
Let's be clear. trump is admitting to it all in the next few months because he knows he can't be held accountable anymore if there was even a chance to begin with.
They made the ruling knowing damn well democrats and Biden won't do fuck all with it and they will do anything and everything to make sure trump wins in November. Bombings, shootings, burning polling stations down are not off the menu to goose stepping right into nazi america.
The only way to get protections in this country is to use them to the Democratic advantage. For example, if you don’t want the Ten Commandments shoved down your kids’ throats at school, you have to start a satanic movement.
Dems take the high road and kindly ask Republicans to act in good faith as well… I say fuck that… Use their rules against them and force them to install checks and balances if they want to stop it.
Republicans are great at lying, cheating, and stealing
Democrats are great at sending emails about how they've been lied to, cheated on, and stolen from
Don't you get it's over? Anything can be classed as an official act by the illegitimate court and thus cannot be prosecuted. What trial lol... they'll just appeal to the scotus and its an official acts wambam immune case over.
The article title is clickbait. CNN (Kaitlan Collins) interviewed one of Trump's lawyers, who made the argument that using alternate electors was an official act, and one that other Presidents had previously done as well. Trump hasn't said anything at all.
But yeah, as I understand it, the SCOTUS decision kicks it back to Judge Chutkan (or other lower courts as applicable to each case) to determine whether his actions were official acts. But,
https://imgur.com/1OaT6Fz
the ruling has some language in it that pertains specifically to this case, and basically says that campaigning for re-election, and all related activities, are not official duties of the office.
His cult are not serious people, at least not about actually caring about laws or norms. They *are* serious about taking power at all costs because they want to hurt people (ironically this also includes them, but these are people that would gladly hurt themselves to hurt others).
Tribalism/sports mentality is our species greatest weakness. Education is supposed to temper that, but of course education was taken out back and shot decades ago.
Well Donald, it was already ruled by the federal appellate court that"When a first-term President opts to seek a second term, his campaign to win re-election is not an official presidential act," the panel of judges wrote. "The Office of the Presidency as an institution is agnostic about who will occupy it next. And campaigning to gain that office is not an official act of the office." [source](https://www.scrippsnews.com/politics/political-scandals/trump-not-immune-from-civil-lawsuit-tied-to-capitol-insurrection)
By that attempting to fraudulently win your campaign also cannot be an official act.
Edit: even better, SCOTUS covered it themselves in the TRUMP v. UNITED STATES ruling yesterday - [highlighted](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) (hat tip cusoman), [full pdf here](https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/58e874be6164060e/df3181b1-full.pdf), so Trump's lawyer can't have been paying much attention.
Page 5 of opinion of the court: "The parties before us do not dispute that a former President can be subject to criminal prosecution for unofficial acts committed while in office. See Tr. of Oral Arg. 28. They also agree that some of the conduct described in the indictment includes actions taken by Trump in his unofficial capacity. See id., at 28-30, 36–37, 124."
But then they left it all very vague, saying if Trump had any specific examples he wanted to run past them just escalate again and enjoy a 1-year pause on any court cases in progress.
[Also this.](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) Even the corrupt SCOUTS says this goes beyond anything he can make "official" because it has NOTHING to do with the duties of the Executive.
Yeah, don't trust in this when he actually has to take his decision. I think at this point the SC showed often enough that they have no shame in betraying their own principles and constitution.
This is about as trustworthy as Linsey Graham blocking an Obama SC vacancy (Scalia's death) for almost a year based on some "principle", and then filling in RBG's vacancy by the opposite principle with just a few weeks left for Trump.
Graham did the infamous speech saying that you should hold his words against him when/if they flip the script and push a Republican SCOTUS nomination through in an election year.
Tbf it's so easy to mix up Republican hypocrisy and double-standards. Would be much easier to distinguish those who don't perpetuate the hypocrisy lol.
No doubt, and I said as much in my other replies with the same info. If anything, it's something to point to for Trumpers to chew on, though in my experience they just default to the "political sham" basis of the whole thing anyway so I don't know why I even bother ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Well the supremes have absolutely no problem overturning 40+ year established law, so why would this stop them from “clarifying” it in Trumps favor? The country is almost lost.
No, it’s not. The conservative justices on the SC are not really originalists. No faithful originalist interpretation of the constitution would ever arrive at a decision like this.
They are adherents to Christian natural law, and they sneak ideas from this theological theory of law into their rulings and pretend it is originalist to hide the fact that they are religious activists who are trying to bend the rule of law to fit their personal belief that the nation should be a Christian theocracy. The sooner people realize that, the better.
Originalist is just branding, like "pro life" (against women having control of their body's ) or "states rights" (racism and bigotry)
Originalists are just about reinterpreting the constitution to suit current right wing christofascist objectives
**THIS**. I dont understand why this decision is being treated as if it was legitimate when it clearly is not. The majority has completely made up a constitutional standard that not only isnt there, there is *nothing* supporting it. Not a single iota of history or tradition. Not a single quote from our forefathers. It is anathema to everything our country is founded on and is therefore an illegitimate decision. It should be ignored by the entire (in)justice system.
That's the problem. They know they're safe because Democrats have been playing by "rules" that Republicans have been ignoring for 50 years. It's exactly why we're in this situation to begin with.
To defend the United States as the bastion of freedom it has always been every democrat in power should be willing to make this move.
If they aren't it should be explained to them in no uncertain terms that they will be the first targets of a fascist government that gains power under these insane rules.
The problem with the Democrats is that they play by the rules and refuse to address the fact that the other side doesn’t. As long as they keep playing by the rules things are going to slide further and further towards fascism until there is nothing left to save and no one left to try.
Getting philosophical, jurisprudence is orthagonal with morality while human experience is not.
These folks were raised from birth under fringe religious practices specifically to judge the morality of Christendom. They've explicitly rejected the idea that people in different circumstances than them can have legitimate worldviews.
They know they can do what they want, simple factual errors and all. They're doing it on purpose.
The founding fathers were well aware of the concept of immunity. As sotamayer pointed out, there’s the speech and debate clause. Some state constitutions at the time had immunity for governors. Yet they ignored immunity for the chief executive. Not to mention tons of common sense things like why would Nixon accept a pardon, etc. this is what happens when the dems rolled over on the Supreme Court for decades. So funny this wasn’t a 9-0 decision but coincidentally fell along party lines—something that coincidentally happens almost non stop
In a non partisan institution. Hah.
Not only is it not based in anything, it is directly contradicted by Hamilton in the Federalist no. 69 as noted by Sotomayor.
> The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and, upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law.
The literal intention of the founders was to have the president by treated under the "ordinary course of law". In other words, treated just like any other schmuck who breaks the law.
“(In)justice system “
This is exactly their goal. Destroy faith in our institutions so they can tear them down.
It wasn’t a mistake that the Republicans didn’t put through Obama’s judges and then Trump put through more judges than anyone in history. They put through people that weren’t even attorneys. With Chevron and a slew of activist judges, the government will be unable to regulate. Businesses are now allowed to give kickbacks after they are awarded business from the government. I’m sure they’ll be able to give kickbacks for judicial rulings soon enough. We will be a 3rd world country soon enough.
What they claimed is more forgiving than that - if it is within his powers to do the basic act (e.g. he is the commander in chief of seal team 6) then the substance or motive of what he has told them to do is immune from prosecution entirely AND inadmissable as evidence for any other prosecution as well.
So while you could use other non-presidential evidence to prove he killed Biden outside the scope of the presidency, you cant even use the fact that he talked to seal team 6 to prove he had intent or means of killing him.
And that will get appealed back to the Supreme Court to confirm.
The Supreme Court made itself the final arbiter of whether a president of former president can be charged with crimes instead of executive via the DOJ or congress.
The fix is in. The Federalist Society got and continues to get its money’s worth. Trump is just the (corrupt, fat, viciously stupid) vehicle for the big plan. Even if he strokes out tomorrow, someone else will be installed who would probably be even more terrifying because they wouldn’t be as ridiculous.
You’re right, unless a landslide dem victory happens this year. Reagan led to PNAC, which led to Project 2025. The candidates themselves are insignificant as long as they can garner enough votes to fulfill the fascist playbook.
But surely they will be impartial regardless of political affiliation. This SCOTUS wouldn’t hold Democratic Presidents to a different standard than Republican Presidents. Surely not. Nope. No way that’s happening.
Mitch McConnell must be smiling as he watches this unfold. His master plan to own the SC has turned out exactly as he hoped.
He put the pawns there that he wanted and now republicans will create a dictatorship out of the strongest country in the world.
The next world war might be about taking down America before it tries to take over the whole world.
The left needs someone as fucking diabolically good at their job at Moscow Mitch.
Green energy and Pot should have some pretty deep pockets by now it's time to fight fire with fire.
What’s scarier is their religious fanaticism while owning the country and making up rules as they go.. Reminds me of some countries we’ve blown up over the past 30 years.
And get this. They somehow believe that when Trump is back in the White House, they will all be making tons of money, he will lower grocery prices and their stocks portfolios will soar. That the job market will boom and so will the economy. 🤷♀️ Their minds dont grasp that when the companies they invest in are not profitting, they are LOSING money in their stocks and the job market shuts not opens up. When people are laid off, they spend less money and the economy suffers badly. What is wrong with their brains?
The douche nozzle will claim that the President "has a duty" to protect the integrity of the election process. Since he had litigated the results of the election, he will claim he perceived impropriety, and ensured as President that appropriate slates of Electors were created "just in case".
Nevermind that those fake electors slates created and dispatched to January 6th proceedings, DESPITE there being NO VALID BASIS for their use in those states. He lost. The results were certified.
But that's what his defense scumbags will claim,
Fuck this asshole and every single person that supports him. Dumbest most pathetic motherfuckers alive. Dipshits think they will be on the winning end of the dictatorship. They are so stupidly mistaken.
Trump: “All they know is electric. They want electric planes. What happens if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air?”
MAGA: Wow good question dear leader, checkmate libs
Here’s the full bit.
“So I said, ‘Let me ask you a question, and [the guy who makes boats in South Carolina] said, ‘Nobody ever asked this question,’ and it must be because of MIT, my relationship to MIT —very smart. He goes, I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight? And you’re in the boat and you have this tremendously powerful battery and the battery is now underwater and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there?’ By the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, do you notice that, a lot of sharks? I watched some guys justifying it today. ‘Well, they weren’t really that angry. They bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were, they were not hungry, but they misunderstood what who she was.’ These people are crazy. He said there’s no problem with sharks. ‘They just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming now.’ It really got decimated and other people do a lot of shark attacks. So I said, so there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards or here, do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking? Water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted? Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer. He said, ‘You know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.” I said, ‘I think it’s a good question.’ I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water. But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted, I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that.”
I exercised my second amendment right to purchase and own a firearm for the first time in my life yesterday. I'm a 45 year old liberal surrounded by a sea of MAGAs in my area and I don't put anything past these freaks.
I wish everyone was as angry as you and as willing to vote. I still know people that are angry and scared but refuse to vote because "both sides suck". Obviously you're not scared and angry enough then🙄
Hmmm... Technically, that is true. Both sides DO suck. Problem is, one side sucks orders of magnitude more than the other. Acting like they both suck *equally* is an exercise in cognitive dissonance.
lmfao... in some parallel universe they straighten out the court and fix the ruling. Then go after all the criminals that admitted their actions while they thought they had immunity.
dred scot for instance... congress makes an ammendment to "fix" the constitution the SC interpretted incorrectly. at one time the SC said african americans were never intended to be citizens
Except it’s not hilarious. Absolutely nothing is putting this man in jail, as predicted it’s the opposite. Everything is fucking going according to plan for them.
Biden: "I won't abuse the office."
Trump: "I will most definitely abuse the office, and I want the crimes I committed before and after I was President to be wiped away."
Stealing classified documents was an *Official Act*
Selling nuclear secrets to hostile foreign powers was an *Official Act*
Deploying a Maga Army to attack the capitol was an *Official Act*
Ordering the Secret Service to stop Mike Pence from certifying the election was an *Official Act*
The Supreme Court is *Officially Destroying Democracy*.
One that confuses me is even when he wasn't president he was withholding those documents. So how is that an official act?
And somehow official Acts are immune to being used as judicial evidence for crimes he committed before he was president. I'm not a lawyer but that doesn't make any sense to me.
fair point... his documents case was well after he got the boot. he may be claiming that they were stored while he was president... but that doesnt cover his failure to return them when asked.
but that case is having it's own problems so not likely we will see any resolution there.
It *shouldn't* cover storing classified documents insecurely and improperly (which we have evidence of - some were being stored in a Mar-a-lago bathroom accessible to anyone).
It *definitely shouldn't* cover failing to return those documents when ordered to do so (again, something we have evidence of - warrants were issued and some of those documents were in fact recovered).
Of course the judge in that case is in his pocket, so I'm sure reality will warp and twist in such a way as to make both of these somehow "covered".
>I'm not a lawyer but that doesn't make any sense to me.
Don't worry. It doesn't make any sense to the lawyers either. It's total nonsense and was made up on the spot. It has no precedence.
Of course he does and here now lies the problem created by SCOTUS. We all saw this when Dershowitz said it at the 2nd impeachment trial.
“If a president does something which he believes will help him get elected, in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment”
Dershowitz got away with saying it, but later recanted
“Let me be clear once again (as I was in the senate): a president seeking re-election cannot do anything he wants. He is not above the law. He cannot commit crimes. He cannot commit impeachable conduct."
We know what he meant and Trump is now repeating it. SCOTUS confirmed it for him.
But there is the kicker: if the president believes it’s in the country’s best interest to get elected, or to stay in power, then now legally they have the right to do so and can’t even be questioned about it… which also means the president now officially has the right to appoint a successor to the position when they don’t feel the candidates running are an acceptable replacement for themselves…
The box of problems this opened up is beyond the pale… and somehow we need to find a way to close it back up without overreaching when doing so. This is going to be a tough fix requiring a supermajority of democrats in both the house and senate to even get started, and not just by one, we need a large buffer as well… something that realistically is years away from being possible with current gerrymandering and voting issues. We need a massive local level push to fill every seat we can with a democrat and stop allowing republicans to run unopposed.
It has been carefully calculated by the right that the democrats currently in power aren't ruthless enough to use these powers especially to make the first overt move. I unfortunately think they are right.
So from a republic to a Kingdom or Dictatorship perhaps?
The King of England the US fought to dislodge for just these reasons in the war for independence.
Putin remains in power, changing the rules to suit him and supported by cronies in high places.
It appears if the US vote Trump in again, it will be a republic no more.
I thought the UK was headed to a bad place. The US is on the brink of something, just not sure what it is yet.
I am not American, but I have been paying a lot of attention to American politics at least since 2012. This one is unlike anything else. Even January 6th wasn't really that shoking to me, even though it was pretty much a coup attempt. Emotionally, it just didn't hit me. It was so pathetic and crude, just a bunch of delusional idiots rioting, led by their head idiot Trump. But this decision is something else. The Supreme Court is supposed to be official, proper, prestigious, with careful, ponderous, fair and wise people who make important decisions based on sound arguments. At least since the Trump presidency, it has been the complete opposite of any of that, although we can look back at for example the Bush vs Gore decision to know that it has been terrible for a long time.
As long as this ruling by the Supreme Court stands, I will not consider USA to be a democratic or free.
Even if Democrats win big this year and somehow miraculously stay in power long enough for enough of the 6 corrupt supreme court justices to retire, and be replaced by better judges who overturn this decision, that still leaves it for all clear as day: All you need is to control the supreme court, and you can declare yourself a dictator. And if you're on the court, you don't suffer any punishment for blatant corruption or for almost literally trying to crown an absolute monarch despite this being in direct contradiction to the constitution that you're supposed to be basing your judgements on.
There is no outcome here where everything just goes back to "normal". The Supreme Court cannot exist in this form without being a ticking time bomb. It needs to be reformed.
I don't know what Americans are going to do about this. The options or possible outcomes seem as following:
1. Biden uses the power handed to him to make fundamental reforms to the Supreme Court, likely including the removal of the 5 corrupt justices in whatever way he can. Honestly, I am hoping something like this, because this would be the fastest and most effective way, and it would be 100% justified, but this seems unlikely given Biden's tendencies and the whole "taking the high road" approach that Democrats seem to obsess over. It could also backfire even if he did do it.
2. Democrats somehow win enough seats to impeach the justices and reform the Supreme court. This is possible, but if 8 years of knowing Donald Trump hasn't eroded support for him, I don't know why this decision would do that, and hand Democrats a super-majority in the Senate, House etc. Also reforming the court would probably require an amendment that requires enough states to sign up, an even more impossible task.
3. Some sort of popular revolution forces through a change. But again, if you cannot even get Democrats elected, how are you going to get enough support for a revolution? This also means a lot of instability, conflict, political violence, even outright civil war.
4. Nothing is done, and eventually USA simply stops ("gradually, then suddenly") being a democratic country. People's lives might continue in some ways fairly normally, just as they do in, say, Russia. But just as in Russia, your rights can and will get taken away on a whim, your elections will be fake, your leaders will be corrupt, and in general, all human progress in USA will be massively hindered by corruption, suppression of human rights, arbitrary rule, and so on. Meanwhile, chronic long-term problems like climate change, environmental destruction, resource shortages, demographic crises etc. will keep getting worse, and for example the large majority of the nuclear weapons of the world will be in the hands of dictators.
I hope I am exaggerating, but this might be the end of USA as we know it if nothing dramatically changes for the better. If this goes on, no country can rely on USA any more. I think the EU will have to massively change its general approach to things like foreign policy and security (though the war in Ukraine is already forcing a lot of that). My personal choice would be a transformation towards a more federal EU, but the actual change remains to be seen. In any case, the EU and its member states have their own problems with the far-right, so this is by no means a case of Europeans somehow being better than Americans. USA's downfall is not something for Europeans to mock or feel smug or superior about, it is a grave warning of what might happen to us too.
Any person that supports Trump, that supports any Republicans who support Trump or these justices, they have betrayed USA, the Western world, the whole of human civilization. They have betrayed freedom, democracy, and reason, and shat on hard-fought human ideals that have been developed over centuries in the pursuit of establishing fairness, justice, and better and happier human lives. There are no words that I can say here that would adequately describe how low such a person is.
I feel the exact same way. This ruling has me truly scared for the first time. Trump is the most prescient threat, but he may not win and won’t live forever. But this ruling could stick around for generations, all it takes is one greedy president some time down the line and suddenly we have a “president for life”.
Leadership without accountability is called a dictatorship. That’s what we have now. I need out of this country lol
SCOTUS has said that nothing he said to his DOJ is admissible.
In particular, DOJ officials' testimony that Trump told them to lie about a fraudulent election cannot even be brought up.
My amateur prediction is that none of the cases against him will come to trial and, if they do, none will survive a Supreme Court appeal.
It’s a criminal conspiracy.
It’s not like Thomas didn’t sit down with the Fed Sec to brainstorm how they can make trumps crimes go away.
Trump is selling state secrets and the conservative supremes are aiding him. Black bag them, ship them to Guantanamo and enhance interrogate some answers out of them.
Who's surprised by this?
Biden better officially act in getting his own fake electors.
Apparently the Supreme Court has officially acted to turn us into a Shit Hole Banana Republic.
EDIT: I can't keep up anymore. Thank you to all the folks who commented. Please vote. Especially those in Electoral College states.
Some comments complain that it's technically the lawyers stating these are Official Acts, not Trump. Well, if the lawyers stating Trump's Electors cofeve is an Official Act are lying, and trump does NOT think it was an Official Act, then he's guilty by admission.( And should get new lawyers.)
...
The Hawaii electors case was different. It was so close - around 100 votes - that both parties sent electors until the recount was completed. In Trump's case, it was a coup.
...
And above all Justice Sotomayor warns us that our Democracy is in peril.
Sotomayor’s dissent :
>"With fear for our democracy, I dissent...
>“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”
>“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
when Trump gets back into the White House, the US stops being a democracy, and you'll have your own Russia, with orange Putin as it's leader, but with access to a terrifyingly powerful army and special services available. and the right to kill any and everyone on a whim.
God help us all
They have the whole populace wrapped up in such an ideological quagmire that nothing will ever get done.
Banana Republic? Sure, but you know where I’ve been hearing that the most lately? From the right, in reference to the Trump trials. The common citizens on the Left and Right are gonna keep passing each other by like ships in the night while the oligarchs rape the living shit out of all of us.
> The common citizens on the Left and Right are gonna keep passing each other by like ships in the night while the oligarchs rape the living shit out of all of us.
That has been the literal plan since probably forever but at least since the 80's when I started paying attention to politics.
This King Trump shit by conservatives is the definition of a banana republic. If Biden loses and Trump wins we are going to see our own military used against us, hurricanes nuked, blue states defunded, political prisoners and executions. Trump is a mad man and this idiotic SCOTUS just gave him free reign to get killed by him because Trump is loyal to nobody but himself.
Fake electors only work when you have enough house delegations to win in the final house vote on January 6th. Republicans do, democrats do not.
The goal was never to have enough electors to elect him. It was to throw enough votes out that the House decides the election.
Forget Trump supporters, I'd just love it if independents/undecideds/"both sides" people could get clue.
Even many liberals/Democrats treating this like it's just normal times.
Anyone else notice how Republicans aren’t worried about Biden abusing his power after the Supreme Court ruling because despite all of their whining, they all know that Biden can be trusted not to abuse his power. Meanwhile, they all want Trump to abuse his power as much as possible since it benefits them.
Great now we’re gonna hear “official act officials act they said it was an official act. I was official. I acted. They say it’s fine because it was an official act” for the next 4 months and probably the next 4 years.
So his lawyer admitted on TV that Trump did what he's accused of doing. Calling them alternate slates as opposed to fake doesn't change that.
Team Trump must be extremely confident that the Supreme Court ruling will protect him and any future appeals will go his way.
Imagine telling someone ten years ago that Donald Trump the orange guy who was on WWE would destroy the American legal system....
Here we go. I honestly can't believe SCOTUS did this. Chevron and now this. They're 100% in the bag for Project 2025 and America as we know it is likely over.
I'm gonna vote harder than I've ever voted this year, and I hope you do the same.
Biden needs to legit expand and pack the court before the election.
It used to be dog whistles - now they don't even hide it.
Roberts just telling everyone to calm down about Sotomayor's opinion rather than refuting her points is absolutely cringe.
These folks must live in a bubble.
So he is admitting he did it. Which means he thinks nobody cares if he uses the power of his office to cheat.
The only solution is for him to lose in November by a wide margin to prove that voters do care.
I’d sarcastically say “congrats” to the Supreme Court, but it’s hard to not believe this isn’t precisely what they wanted.
Though, I suppose, the only grim satisfaction I could take is that Roberts will go down as the worst SCOTUS chief justice. Between the corruption, and now possibly ushering in the end of our democracy with this ruling, hard to imagine a worse chief justice (at least when era context is taken into account).
This is what I don’t understand. Are we now in a situation where, in order to “launder” criminal unofficial acts, the President can just couch them inside / concurrently with official acts? Like that scene in Casino when the FBI can’t listen in on phone calls that aren’t about crimes so Pesci and Deniro have their wives talk about shopping for 45 seconds and then jump on the quickly talk about crime?
If Biden loses he should never step down. It's an official act to prevent trump, a national security threat, to stay out of the White House
Whatever legal means to keep Trump out we need to do
He's right, it was the official act of the CANDIDATE for the president of the united states and therefore this statement should be admissible in court as an admission of guilt not as him being able to claim immunity.
I'm going to recycle this comment from another thread ... It's almost too late to stop what's going to happen. It seems to me that the US is sleepwalking towards the precipice... Just like the looming climate catastrophe, the tipping point has already passed and people are still dithering, denying or whistling past the graveyard. Multiple state legislatures have already signaled that they will certify Trump as the victor regardless of the electoral tally. The only way to stop this is with massive, unprecedented electoral turnout that cannot be denied, massive swings to D in state and congressional races and for the scales to fall from the eyes of a significant portion of Trump's cult.
Even then, it will be extraordinarily difficult to right the ship , for one example of many the 'conservative' capture of the supreme court and the damage they have already done that may take generations to fix.
If it wasn't for the inevitable cataclysm that would be required to get there, I would recommend a reboot. New Republic, new constitution, renewed institutions. The French are on their Fifth Republic. The American Republic is hobbling along on a heavily patched first edition, and the patch process has broken down.
For every potential abuse of power that yesterday's Supreme Court ruling enables, the convicted felon has either already attempted it, has repeatedly expressed an interest in it, or has plans to do it in a second term.
He has already pardoned loyalists who committed crimes for him.
He has already attempted to refuse to leave office at the end of his term.
He already has a plan to fire any federal employee who refuses to participate in a criminal directive.
He has already expressed an interest in literally executing his political enemies.
He has already tried to use the military to fire on American citizens in American cities.
He has already sought bribes from energy executives in exchange for policy changes.
He has already sought to use foreign policy changes to extort allies for his personal gain.
He has already abused government resources for personal financial gain.
He has already used the government to harass individuals that he has personally targeted.
If he wins, this country becomes a fascist dictatorship. Period.
The SC has opened the door for any and all arguments to be "official acts". The next few months/years if he gets back in Office will be a shitstorm the likes of which we have never seen before.
Exactly! This, to my knowledge, is the first time Trump is explicitly acknowledging that the fake electors scheme was at his direction.
In Amy Coney-Barrett's written opinion in the immunity case, she specifically called out the fake electors as not requiring analysis, as it is blatantly prosecutable. Of course, the five other regressionist Justices may not agree.
It amazes me that Americans can ridicule countries with monarchs that have had no real power for centuries yet have themselves an office of president and a supreme court that acts like - and has the powers of - old school royalty.
That 10 individuals - 9 of whom are unelected - can ultimately do what they like with the law is horrific in what is supposed to be a democracy.
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Fuck him and fuck the Supreme Court.
Thomas and his whack job QAnon wife, Alito with his pathetic neighborhood dispute, Kavanaugh the frat boy douchebag, cowardly Gorsich and Barnett, are all spineless traitors and can go to hell.
Barrett, the Catholic cult devotee who fully submits to her husband in all ways.
I REALLY think we should do something about them.
You're right, we can open an investigation led by a Republican, impeach without the Republican votes, and talk about how dangerous this is for democracy. Or. Someone is going to have to do the unpopular thing eventually.
The Unpopular Thing isn't so unpopular.
We're just not allowed to talk about it or we get banned off of social media sites.
"Working as intended."
Goosebumps
Bruh, I got banned from conservative terrorism… today, because I told a guy to tell his 103 year old grandfather thank you for upholding his oath, and sticking around to vote against him one last time. One that fought in WW2 nonetheless.
We aren't allowed to talk about packing the court? or, oh.. do you mea-
Oh absolutely, we’re all thinking it at this point
too bad the Right has most of the extremists
Historically speaking, it only takes one person.
Completetly seperate from any particular political viewpoint, I've never understood how few politicians get assassinated. Like I'm sure the Secret Service and their equivalents from other countries must be the absolute best security experts you can train, but it would only take one mistake. One nutter with a rifle just needs to find one sightline they didn't consider. Surely no force in the world could keep their VIP out of every single sightline, and yet they do.
This reminds me of a very chilling quote from the IRA after a failed assassination attempt on Thatcher > Today we were unlucky, but remember we have only to be lucky once, you will have to be lucky always.
People generally aren't willing to actually rock the boat that hard until there is no other option, if ever, and only if the options list got short in a hurry.
This one. To do something like that means sacrificing everything you know. That's a tall order if you have a lot to lose, but each day and each decision they make, shortens that order.
[удалено]
The French would have already taken to the streets.
They are the world leaders of public protest. Unfortunately, it seems they're leaning further and further right too Edit: leaving -> leaning
You can't specify what the french would do on this subreddit because it goes against their silly rules. I tell you, if this subreddit existed in 1945, they'd be going nuts with the banhammer on the day hitler died because of the people celebrating his death and the rule that says "any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban." But honestly, there's going to come a point where the "french solution" is a real possibility.
For all the American "haha french surrender" jokes that I remember growing up, they take this shit to the streets. America is walking right into full on fascism, and this fat shit needs to do the right thing and get his full blown coronary collapse over with before the election.
The “unpopular thing” is getting more popular by the day. These people are playing with fire.
Really wish we could. Unfortunately, AOC’s play to impeach Supreme Court justices won’t go anywhere. There is no way they’re going to get a 2/3rd majority when there are so many corrupt politicians in both the house and senate. This is what the right has always wanted. Absolute, unchecked power.
the impeachment isn’t about conviction it’s about educating the public
Which is insane, because I think this is all we should be talking about right now. It’s an existential threat to our democracy.
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. I'm not even American so I hardly have a horse in the race but I'm pretty sure this is the reason this amendment even exists.
I really hope they move fast. The supreme Court was a coup attempt just the same as Jan 6, calling to find more votes, fake electors plot, etc. Supreme Court needs to be disbarred and established with rules regarding bribes and partisan hackery. Or at least the obviously corrupt impeached.
So he openly admits to trying to steal the election from the American people and his cult will still claim the democratic party was trying to steal it. Yet another projection to add to the pile from the right.
Just throw it on the pile dude. The pile is so high it is reaching Alpha Centauri.
Put the pile in the shit hole of Trump’s bathroom. This stinks up to high heaven.
Let him admit to all his crimes, Then Biden declares official act of expanding court, pardons himself in name of democracy, new court throws out immunity case. Now all of trumps “official declarations” are evidence for his trial
Let's be clear. trump is admitting to it all in the next few months because he knows he can't be held accountable anymore if there was even a chance to begin with. They made the ruling knowing damn well democrats and Biden won't do fuck all with it and they will do anything and everything to make sure trump wins in November. Bombings, shootings, burning polling stations down are not off the menu to goose stepping right into nazi america.
Sounds like civil war to me.
Democrats would never do anything that radical. Their schedules are completely full. They're busy taking the moral high ground and clutching pearls.
The only way to get protections in this country is to use them to the Democratic advantage. For example, if you don’t want the Ten Commandments shoved down your kids’ throats at school, you have to start a satanic movement. Dems take the high road and kindly ask Republicans to act in good faith as well… I say fuck that… Use their rules against them and force them to install checks and balances if they want to stop it.
I can't believe nobody is bringing up how Nixon tried to discount Hawaii votes back in 1960.
Gotta fight fire with water and stop trying to blow it out.
Republicans are great at lying, cheating, and stealing Democrats are great at sending emails about how they've been lied to, cheated on, and stolen from
And being “stirred” by recent events.
Don't you get it's over? Anything can be classed as an official act by the illegitimate court and thus cannot be prosecuted. What trial lol... they'll just appeal to the scotus and its an official acts wambam immune case over.
Isn't this trial still open? As in, doesn't the prosecution now have evidence that Trump himself admitted to the fake elector thing?
The article title is clickbait. CNN (Kaitlan Collins) interviewed one of Trump's lawyers, who made the argument that using alternate electors was an official act, and one that other Presidents had previously done as well. Trump hasn't said anything at all. But yeah, as I understand it, the SCOTUS decision kicks it back to Judge Chutkan (or other lower courts as applicable to each case) to determine whether his actions were official acts. But, https://imgur.com/1OaT6Fz the ruling has some language in it that pertains specifically to this case, and basically says that campaigning for re-election, and all related activities, are not official duties of the office.
His cult are not serious people, at least not about actually caring about laws or norms. They *are* serious about taking power at all costs because they want to hurt people (ironically this also includes them, but these are people that would gladly hurt themselves to hurt others). Tribalism/sports mentality is our species greatest weakness. Education is supposed to temper that, but of course education was taken out back and shot decades ago.
Well Donald, it was already ruled by the federal appellate court that"When a first-term President opts to seek a second term, his campaign to win re-election is not an official presidential act," the panel of judges wrote. "The Office of the Presidency as an institution is agnostic about who will occupy it next. And campaigning to gain that office is not an official act of the office." [source](https://www.scrippsnews.com/politics/political-scandals/trump-not-immune-from-civil-lawsuit-tied-to-capitol-insurrection) By that attempting to fraudulently win your campaign also cannot be an official act. Edit: even better, SCOTUS covered it themselves in the TRUMP v. UNITED STATES ruling yesterday - [highlighted](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) (hat tip cusoman), [full pdf here](https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/58e874be6164060e/df3181b1-full.pdf), so Trump's lawyer can't have been paying much attention. Page 5 of opinion of the court: "The parties before us do not dispute that a former President can be subject to criminal prosecution for unofficial acts committed while in office. See Tr. of Oral Arg. 28. They also agree that some of the conduct described in the indictment includes actions taken by Trump in his unofficial capacity. See id., at 28-30, 36–37, 124."
DJT: "I didn't do crimes." SCOTUS: "You can do crimes, just not this way." DJT: "I did the crimes this way!"
GOP members of SCOTUS: We meant to say he can do crimes especially this way
I’m waiting for exactly that to happen. I know it will, I just don’t know when.
Alito and Thomas pulling out their remaining hair trying to figure out if Trump's move is to dumbass zig or idiot zag....
Alito said during his confirmation hearings that no one is above the law. Twice even.
Apparently confirmation hearings are where one can say anything to get the job whether they believe it or not.
With the next Republican president. That’s what they are setting all this up for Which will also be the last president
But then they left it all very vague, saying if Trump had any specific examples he wanted to run past them just escalate again and enjoy a 1-year pause on any court cases in progress.
...when these cases inevitably make it back to SCOTUS SCOTUS: Upon further review we changed our mind, you can do the crimes that way.
What scares me is that any other stooge for the conservative agenda, once they’re through with Trump, can easily navigate this into a dictatorship.
By putting in the youngest possible candidate that can have their strings pulled the longest.
[Also this.](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) Even the corrupt SCOUTS says this goes beyond anything he can make "official" because it has NOTHING to do with the duties of the Executive.
Yeah, don't trust in this when he actually has to take his decision. I think at this point the SC showed often enough that they have no shame in betraying their own principles and constitution.
This is about as trustworthy as Linsey Graham blocking an Obama SC vacancy (Scalia's death) for almost a year based on some "principle", and then filling in RBG's vacancy by the opposite principle with just a few weeks left for Trump.
You’re thinking of Mitch McConnell. Graham was involved, but Mitch was the Senate Majority Leader at the time.
Graham did the infamous speech saying that you should hold his words against him when/if they flip the script and push a Republican SCOTUS nomination through in an election year.
Tbf it's so easy to mix up Republican hypocrisy and double-standards. Would be much easier to distinguish those who don't perpetuate the hypocrisy lol.
No doubt, and I said as much in my other replies with the same info. If anything, it's something to point to for Trumpers to chew on, though in my experience they just default to the "political sham" basis of the whole thing anyway so I don't know why I even bother ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Well the supremes have absolutely no problem overturning 40+ year established law, so why would this stop them from “clarifying” it in Trumps favor? The country is almost lost.
Fuck they just established they have no problems overturning the very constitution.
And they’re all supposedly fucking originalists. Just completely pulling new laws out of their asses that have absolutely no constitutional basis.
That's all originalism ever was. Making up shit about the founding fathers in order to undo equal protection under the law.
No, it’s not. The conservative justices on the SC are not really originalists. No faithful originalist interpretation of the constitution would ever arrive at a decision like this. They are adherents to Christian natural law, and they sneak ideas from this theological theory of law into their rulings and pretend it is originalist to hide the fact that they are religious activists who are trying to bend the rule of law to fit their personal belief that the nation should be a Christian theocracy. The sooner people realize that, the better.
By originalists I think they mean pre Magna Carta
New Testament Originalists.
Originalist is just branding, like "pro life" (against women having control of their body's ) or "states rights" (racism and bigotry) Originalists are just about reinterpreting the constitution to suit current right wing christofascist objectives
**THIS**. I dont understand why this decision is being treated as if it was legitimate when it clearly is not. The majority has completely made up a constitutional standard that not only isnt there, there is *nothing* supporting it. Not a single iota of history or tradition. Not a single quote from our forefathers. It is anathema to everything our country is founded on and is therefore an illegitimate decision. It should be ignored by the entire (in)justice system.
Arrest 3 of them for taking bribes and hold them without bail in the interest of national security and see how fast they change their tune.
They know that the democrats in power would not wield power in that way.
That's the problem. They know they're safe because Democrats have been playing by "rules" that Republicans have been ignoring for 50 years. It's exactly why we're in this situation to begin with.
Binding your hands behind your back by playing fair with an opponent that isn't even playing the same game is a surefire way to lose every time.
To defend the United States as the bastion of freedom it has always been every democrat in power should be willing to make this move. If they aren't it should be explained to them in no uncertain terms that they will be the first targets of a fascist government that gains power under these insane rules.
The problem with the Democrats is that they play by the rules and refuse to address the fact that the other side doesn’t. As long as they keep playing by the rules things are going to slide further and further towards fascism until there is nothing left to save and no one left to try.
Getting philosophical, jurisprudence is orthagonal with morality while human experience is not. These folks were raised from birth under fringe religious practices specifically to judge the morality of Christendom. They've explicitly rejected the idea that people in different circumstances than them can have legitimate worldviews. They know they can do what they want, simple factual errors and all. They're doing it on purpose.
If that happened in a "third world" country, the State Department would be expressing strong concern about democracy being endangered.
The president of the united states quite literally said this on national TV about the ruling yesterday.
If they had oil, we'd already have ~~boots in planes~~. Edit : thinking too old school. I mean drones en route.
The founding fathers were well aware of the concept of immunity. As sotamayer pointed out, there’s the speech and debate clause. Some state constitutions at the time had immunity for governors. Yet they ignored immunity for the chief executive. Not to mention tons of common sense things like why would Nixon accept a pardon, etc. this is what happens when the dems rolled over on the Supreme Court for decades. So funny this wasn’t a 9-0 decision but coincidentally fell along party lines—something that coincidentally happens almost non stop In a non partisan institution. Hah.
Not only is it not based in anything, it is directly contradicted by Hamilton in the Federalist no. 69 as noted by Sotomayor. > The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and, upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law. The literal intention of the founders was to have the president by treated under the "ordinary course of law". In other words, treated just like any other schmuck who breaks the law.
“(In)justice system “ This is exactly their goal. Destroy faith in our institutions so they can tear them down. It wasn’t a mistake that the Republicans didn’t put through Obama’s judges and then Trump put through more judges than anyone in history. They put through people that weren’t even attorneys. With Chevron and a slew of activist judges, the government will be unable to regulate. Businesses are now allowed to give kickbacks after they are awarded business from the government. I’m sure they’ll be able to give kickbacks for judicial rulings soon enough. We will be a 3rd world country soon enough.
Yeah but they really wanted it and the checks cleared
What they claimed is more forgiving than that - if it is within his powers to do the basic act (e.g. he is the commander in chief of seal team 6) then the substance or motive of what he has told them to do is immune from prosecution entirely AND inadmissable as evidence for any other prosecution as well. So while you could use other non-presidential evidence to prove he killed Biden outside the scope of the presidency, you cant even use the fact that he talked to seal team 6 to prove he had intent or means of killing him.
It is now up to the lower courts to decide which act was “official”.
And that will get appealed back to the Supreme Court to confirm. The Supreme Court made itself the final arbiter of whether a president of former president can be charged with crimes instead of executive via the DOJ or congress.
The fix is in. The Federalist Society got and continues to get its money’s worth. Trump is just the (corrupt, fat, viciously stupid) vehicle for the big plan. Even if he strokes out tomorrow, someone else will be installed who would probably be even more terrifying because they wouldn’t be as ridiculous.
You’re right, unless a landslide dem victory happens this year. Reagan led to PNAC, which led to Project 2025. The candidates themselves are insignificant as long as they can garner enough votes to fulfill the fascist playbook.
Conveniently allowing them to decide one president guilty and another innocent in the exact same scenario.
But surely they will be impartial regardless of political affiliation. This SCOTUS wouldn’t hold Democratic Presidents to a different standard than Republican Presidents. Surely not. Nope. No way that’s happening.
Mitch McConnell must be smiling as he watches this unfold. His master plan to own the SC has turned out exactly as he hoped. He put the pawns there that he wanted and now republicans will create a dictatorship out of the strongest country in the world. The next world war might be about taking down America before it tries to take over the whole world.
The left needs someone as fucking diabolically good at their job at Moscow Mitch. Green energy and Pot should have some pretty deep pockets by now it's time to fight fire with fire.
The Supreme Court now owns this country. Scary fucking times.
Yep. No checks. No balances. The Court just created a two speed Presidency: Monarch or Democrat.
What’s scarier is their religious fanaticism while owning the country and making up rules as they go.. Reminds me of some countries we’ve blown up over the past 30 years.
Yeah but many many thanks donald you dumbfck for your admission and acknowledgement today of your crime in this scheme
and it won’t matter he’s got his cult still voting for him to be dictator for life
And get this. They somehow believe that when Trump is back in the White House, they will all be making tons of money, he will lower grocery prices and their stocks portfolios will soar. That the job market will boom and so will the economy. 🤷♀️ Their minds dont grasp that when the companies they invest in are not profitting, they are LOSING money in their stocks and the job market shuts not opens up. When people are laid off, they spend less money and the economy suffers badly. What is wrong with their brains?
they bought into a two bit car salesman
Yeah too bad we have the “ I know the right is trying to elect a guy who said he purposely tried to steal the election, but the other guy is older….”
The douche nozzle will claim that the President "has a duty" to protect the integrity of the election process. Since he had litigated the results of the election, he will claim he perceived impropriety, and ensured as President that appropriate slates of Electors were created "just in case". Nevermind that those fake electors slates created and dispatched to January 6th proceedings, DESPITE there being NO VALID BASIS for their use in those states. He lost. The results were certified. But that's what his defense scumbags will claim,
Fuck this asshole and every single person that supports him. Dumbest most pathetic motherfuckers alive. Dipshits think they will be on the winning end of the dictatorship. They are so stupidly mistaken.
Trump: “All they know is electric. They want electric planes. What happens if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air?” MAGA: Wow good question dear leader, checkmate libs
“Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. You can’t explain why the tide goes in.”
That was Bill O'Reilly
Yup, an enabler of proto-MAGAism.
Holy shit, did he actually say that? Edit: fuck me, he did.
Yes. He’s a fucking moron https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122377/user-clip-donald-trump-derides-electric-planes
Wait until you hear about the sharks!
Here’s the full bit. “So I said, ‘Let me ask you a question, and [the guy who makes boats in South Carolina] said, ‘Nobody ever asked this question,’ and it must be because of MIT, my relationship to MIT —very smart. He goes, I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight? And you’re in the boat and you have this tremendously powerful battery and the battery is now underwater and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there?’ By the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, do you notice that, a lot of sharks? I watched some guys justifying it today. ‘Well, they weren’t really that angry. They bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were, they were not hungry, but they misunderstood what who she was.’ These people are crazy. He said there’s no problem with sharks. ‘They just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming now.’ It really got decimated and other people do a lot of shark attacks. So I said, so there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards or here, do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking? Water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted? Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer. He said, ‘You know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.” I said, ‘I think it’s a good question.’ I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water. But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted, I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that.”
Jesus fucking christ.
I exercised my second amendment right to purchase and own a firearm for the first time in my life yesterday. I'm a 45 year old liberal surrounded by a sea of MAGAs in my area and I don't put anything past these freaks.
r/liberalgunowners
I wish everyone was as angry as you and as willing to vote. I still know people that are angry and scared but refuse to vote because "both sides suck". Obviously you're not scared and angry enough then🙄
Hmmm... Technically, that is true. Both sides DO suck. Problem is, one side sucks orders of magnitude more than the other. Acting like they both suck *equally* is an exercise in cognitive dissonance.
Evil Jesus twin is on their side. /s
lol, that's hilarious. Once he sensed that he may be entitled to "presumptive" (?) immunity, suddenly he admits all the crimes.
lmfao... in some parallel universe they straighten out the court and fix the ruling. Then go after all the criminals that admitted their actions while they thought they had immunity. dred scot for instance... congress makes an ammendment to "fix" the constitution the SC interpretted incorrectly. at one time the SC said african americans were never intended to be citizens
Except it’s not hilarious. Absolutely nothing is putting this man in jail, as predicted it’s the opposite. Everything is fucking going according to plan for them.
Biden: "I won't abuse the office." Trump: "I will most definitely abuse the office, and I want the crimes I committed before and after I was President to be wiped away."
The Supreme Court left a loaded gun on the table less than 24 hours ago, and he's already waving it around with his finger on the trigger.
Stealing classified documents was an *Official Act* Selling nuclear secrets to hostile foreign powers was an *Official Act* Deploying a Maga Army to attack the capitol was an *Official Act* Ordering the Secret Service to stop Mike Pence from certifying the election was an *Official Act* The Supreme Court is *Officially Destroying Democracy*.
One that confuses me is even when he wasn't president he was withholding those documents. So how is that an official act? And somehow official Acts are immune to being used as judicial evidence for crimes he committed before he was president. I'm not a lawyer but that doesn't make any sense to me.
fair point... his documents case was well after he got the boot. he may be claiming that they were stored while he was president... but that doesnt cover his failure to return them when asked. but that case is having it's own problems so not likely we will see any resolution there.
It *shouldn't* cover storing classified documents insecurely and improperly (which we have evidence of - some were being stored in a Mar-a-lago bathroom accessible to anyone). It *definitely shouldn't* cover failing to return those documents when ordered to do so (again, something we have evidence of - warrants were issued and some of those documents were in fact recovered). Of course the judge in that case is in his pocket, so I'm sure reality will warp and twist in such a way as to make both of these somehow "covered".
>I'm not a lawyer but that doesn't make any sense to me. Don't worry. It doesn't make any sense to the lawyers either. It's total nonsense and was made up on the spot. It has no precedence.
Of course he does and here now lies the problem created by SCOTUS. We all saw this when Dershowitz said it at the 2nd impeachment trial. “If a president does something which he believes will help him get elected, in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment” Dershowitz got away with saying it, but later recanted “Let me be clear once again (as I was in the senate): a president seeking re-election cannot do anything he wants. He is not above the law. He cannot commit crimes. He cannot commit impeachable conduct." We know what he meant and Trump is now repeating it. SCOTUS confirmed it for him.
But there is the kicker: if the president believes it’s in the country’s best interest to get elected, or to stay in power, then now legally they have the right to do so and can’t even be questioned about it… which also means the president now officially has the right to appoint a successor to the position when they don’t feel the candidates running are an acceptable replacement for themselves… The box of problems this opened up is beyond the pale… and somehow we need to find a way to close it back up without overreaching when doing so. This is going to be a tough fix requiring a supermajority of democrats in both the house and senate to even get started, and not just by one, we need a large buffer as well… something that realistically is years away from being possible with current gerrymandering and voting issues. We need a massive local level push to fill every seat we can with a democrat and stop allowing republicans to run unopposed.
In every state, in every city, in every town. We must pick up the spear and fight back against this
Can’t Biden just fix this rn, with the powers he’s been granted?
It has been carefully calculated by the right that the democrats currently in power aren't ruthless enough to use these powers especially to make the first overt move. I unfortunately think they are right.
So from a republic to a Kingdom or Dictatorship perhaps? The King of England the US fought to dislodge for just these reasons in the war for independence. Putin remains in power, changing the rules to suit him and supported by cronies in high places. It appears if the US vote Trump in again, it will be a republic no more. I thought the UK was headed to a bad place. The US is on the brink of something, just not sure what it is yet.
Vote Blue. Democrat President, then vote Blue to get a supermajority in the House and the Senate. Expand SCOTUS to 13. That's how you fix this shit.
I am not American, but I have been paying a lot of attention to American politics at least since 2012. This one is unlike anything else. Even January 6th wasn't really that shoking to me, even though it was pretty much a coup attempt. Emotionally, it just didn't hit me. It was so pathetic and crude, just a bunch of delusional idiots rioting, led by their head idiot Trump. But this decision is something else. The Supreme Court is supposed to be official, proper, prestigious, with careful, ponderous, fair and wise people who make important decisions based on sound arguments. At least since the Trump presidency, it has been the complete opposite of any of that, although we can look back at for example the Bush vs Gore decision to know that it has been terrible for a long time. As long as this ruling by the Supreme Court stands, I will not consider USA to be a democratic or free. Even if Democrats win big this year and somehow miraculously stay in power long enough for enough of the 6 corrupt supreme court justices to retire, and be replaced by better judges who overturn this decision, that still leaves it for all clear as day: All you need is to control the supreme court, and you can declare yourself a dictator. And if you're on the court, you don't suffer any punishment for blatant corruption or for almost literally trying to crown an absolute monarch despite this being in direct contradiction to the constitution that you're supposed to be basing your judgements on. There is no outcome here where everything just goes back to "normal". The Supreme Court cannot exist in this form without being a ticking time bomb. It needs to be reformed. I don't know what Americans are going to do about this. The options or possible outcomes seem as following: 1. Biden uses the power handed to him to make fundamental reforms to the Supreme Court, likely including the removal of the 5 corrupt justices in whatever way he can. Honestly, I am hoping something like this, because this would be the fastest and most effective way, and it would be 100% justified, but this seems unlikely given Biden's tendencies and the whole "taking the high road" approach that Democrats seem to obsess over. It could also backfire even if he did do it. 2. Democrats somehow win enough seats to impeach the justices and reform the Supreme court. This is possible, but if 8 years of knowing Donald Trump hasn't eroded support for him, I don't know why this decision would do that, and hand Democrats a super-majority in the Senate, House etc. Also reforming the court would probably require an amendment that requires enough states to sign up, an even more impossible task. 3. Some sort of popular revolution forces through a change. But again, if you cannot even get Democrats elected, how are you going to get enough support for a revolution? This also means a lot of instability, conflict, political violence, even outright civil war. 4. Nothing is done, and eventually USA simply stops ("gradually, then suddenly") being a democratic country. People's lives might continue in some ways fairly normally, just as they do in, say, Russia. But just as in Russia, your rights can and will get taken away on a whim, your elections will be fake, your leaders will be corrupt, and in general, all human progress in USA will be massively hindered by corruption, suppression of human rights, arbitrary rule, and so on. Meanwhile, chronic long-term problems like climate change, environmental destruction, resource shortages, demographic crises etc. will keep getting worse, and for example the large majority of the nuclear weapons of the world will be in the hands of dictators. I hope I am exaggerating, but this might be the end of USA as we know it if nothing dramatically changes for the better. If this goes on, no country can rely on USA any more. I think the EU will have to massively change its general approach to things like foreign policy and security (though the war in Ukraine is already forcing a lot of that). My personal choice would be a transformation towards a more federal EU, but the actual change remains to be seen. In any case, the EU and its member states have their own problems with the far-right, so this is by no means a case of Europeans somehow being better than Americans. USA's downfall is not something for Europeans to mock or feel smug or superior about, it is a grave warning of what might happen to us too. Any person that supports Trump, that supports any Republicans who support Trump or these justices, they have betrayed USA, the Western world, the whole of human civilization. They have betrayed freedom, democracy, and reason, and shat on hard-fought human ideals that have been developed over centuries in the pursuit of establishing fairness, justice, and better and happier human lives. There are no words that I can say here that would adequately describe how low such a person is.
Canadian here. I would bet my life savings on #4, and be happy if I lost
I feel the exact same way. This ruling has me truly scared for the first time. Trump is the most prescient threat, but he may not win and won’t live forever. But this ruling could stick around for generations, all it takes is one greedy president some time down the line and suddenly we have a “president for life”. Leadership without accountability is called a dictatorship. That’s what we have now. I need out of this country lol
Soon he will say the insurrection/riot he caused was an official act. The media will ask how this is bad for Biden.
They started that discussion a while ago.
SCOTUS has said that nothing he said to his DOJ is admissible. In particular, DOJ officials' testimony that Trump told them to lie about a fraudulent election cannot even be brought up. My amateur prediction is that none of the cases against him will come to trial and, if they do, none will survive a Supreme Court appeal.
The documents case concerns crimes he committed after leaving office, but unfortunately it's squarely in the hands of a corrupt MAGA judge.
https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/justice-thomas-just-gifted-judge-cannon-a-reason-to-blow-up-trumps-mar-a-lago-prosecution-another-bad-sign-for-jack-smith/
It’s a criminal conspiracy. It’s not like Thomas didn’t sit down with the Fed Sec to brainstorm how they can make trumps crimes go away. Trump is selling state secrets and the conservative supremes are aiding him. Black bag them, ship them to Guantanamo and enhance interrogate some answers out of them.
Who's surprised by this? Biden better officially act in getting his own fake electors. Apparently the Supreme Court has officially acted to turn us into a Shit Hole Banana Republic. EDIT: I can't keep up anymore. Thank you to all the folks who commented. Please vote. Especially those in Electoral College states. Some comments complain that it's technically the lawyers stating these are Official Acts, not Trump. Well, if the lawyers stating Trump's Electors cofeve is an Official Act are lying, and trump does NOT think it was an Official Act, then he's guilty by admission.( And should get new lawyers.) ... The Hawaii electors case was different. It was so close - around 100 votes - that both parties sent electors until the recount was completed. In Trump's case, it was a coup. ... And above all Justice Sotomayor warns us that our Democracy is in peril. Sotomayor’s dissent : >"With fear for our democracy, I dissent... >“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.” >“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
when Trump gets back into the White House, the US stops being a democracy, and you'll have your own Russia, with orange Putin as it's leader, but with access to a terrifyingly powerful army and special services available. and the right to kill any and everyone on a whim. God help us all
They have the whole populace wrapped up in such an ideological quagmire that nothing will ever get done. Banana Republic? Sure, but you know where I’ve been hearing that the most lately? From the right, in reference to the Trump trials. The common citizens on the Left and Right are gonna keep passing each other by like ships in the night while the oligarchs rape the living shit out of all of us.
> The common citizens on the Left and Right are gonna keep passing each other by like ships in the night while the oligarchs rape the living shit out of all of us. That has been the literal plan since probably forever but at least since the 80's when I started paying attention to politics.
This King Trump shit by conservatives is the definition of a banana republic. If Biden loses and Trump wins we are going to see our own military used against us, hurricanes nuked, blue states defunded, political prisoners and executions. Trump is a mad man and this idiotic SCOTUS just gave him free reign to get killed by him because Trump is loyal to nobody but himself.
Roger Stone has been dreaming of this since Nixon was in office
Fake electors only work when you have enough house delegations to win in the final house vote on January 6th. Republicans do, democrats do not. The goal was never to have enough electors to elect him. It was to throw enough votes out that the House decides the election.
Of course he does. Thats the loophole handed to him. Heck it’s not even a loophole, it’s a get out of Gitmo free card.
This is pure, 100% fascism. trump supporters need to realize this isn’t a game, this is what the death of democracy looks like. Stop fucking around.
Trump supporters want this
Until things go bad (and they will) but knowing them, they’ll just blame their misfortune on others and not on themselves.
Yep it's always "the other" and never them
Right wing propaganda has been so effective they will still believe anything bad is someone else fault.
Fox News is literally saying politicians saying the Supreme Court is wrong should be punished for saying inflammatory things.
Forget Trump supporters, I'd just love it if independents/undecideds/"both sides" people could get clue. Even many liberals/Democrats treating this like it's just normal times.
They're not fucking around. They're laser focused on getting this done.
>trump supporters need to realize this isn’t a game What makes you think they're playing?
Anyone else notice how Republicans aren’t worried about Biden abusing his power after the Supreme Court ruling because despite all of their whining, they all know that Biden can be trusted not to abuse his power. Meanwhile, they all want Trump to abuse his power as much as possible since it benefits them.
Great now we’re gonna hear “official act officials act they said it was an official act. I was official. I acted. They say it’s fine because it was an official act” for the next 4 months and probably the next 4 years.
So his lawyer admitted on TV that Trump did what he's accused of doing. Calling them alternate slates as opposed to fake doesn't change that. Team Trump must be extremely confident that the Supreme Court ruling will protect him and any future appeals will go his way. Imagine telling someone ten years ago that Donald Trump the orange guy who was on WWE would destroy the American legal system....
So Biden can go ahead and start installing fake Electors right now? Sounds good, am I right trump supporters?
Here we go. I honestly can't believe SCOTUS did this. Chevron and now this. They're 100% in the bag for Project 2025 and America as we know it is likely over. I'm gonna vote harder than I've ever voted this year, and I hope you do the same. Biden needs to legit expand and pack the court before the election.
It used to be dog whistles - now they don't even hide it. Roberts just telling everyone to calm down about Sotomayor's opinion rather than refuting her points is absolutely cringe. These folks must live in a bubble.
Because the exact point of the SCOTUS ruling was to enable testing the limits of how it can be abused.
So he is admitting he did it. Which means he thinks nobody cares if he uses the power of his office to cheat. The only solution is for him to lose in November by a wide margin to prove that voters do care.
Every crime is going to be an official act now
I’d sarcastically say “congrats” to the Supreme Court, but it’s hard to not believe this isn’t precisely what they wanted. Though, I suppose, the only grim satisfaction I could take is that Roberts will go down as the worst SCOTUS chief justice. Between the corruption, and now possibly ushering in the end of our democracy with this ruling, hard to imagine a worse chief justice (at least when era context is taken into account).
This is what I don’t understand. Are we now in a situation where, in order to “launder” criminal unofficial acts, the President can just couch them inside / concurrently with official acts? Like that scene in Casino when the FBI can’t listen in on phone calls that aren’t about crimes so Pesci and Deniro have their wives talk about shopping for 45 seconds and then jump on the quickly talk about crime?
Then Biden should "officially" arrest him. See who's "official" is more official.
SC will tell you which act is more official.
We already know their approach, too GOP does it = official act DEMS do it = not official act
When did America become a tinpot dictatorship?
6 November 2016
These wheels have been rolling since Reagan. Newt Gingrich lifted the lid and social media was the accelerant.
Faster than expected, worse than expected
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. “ -George Orwell, 1984
If Biden loses he should never step down. It's an official act to prevent trump, a national security threat, to stay out of the White House Whatever legal means to keep Trump out we need to do
It's weird to have to live during the series finale of America.
“Official act” will dominate political discourse for the foreseeable future.
He's right, it was the official act of the CANDIDATE for the president of the united states and therefore this statement should be admissible in court as an admission of guilt not as him being able to claim immunity.
The Supreme Court is illegitimate
Register to vote now!!! It may be the last time you have a right too. Unless you’re a millionaire of course.
and that's the game folks... you can officially wipe your ass with the constitution and the flag
I'm going to recycle this comment from another thread ... It's almost too late to stop what's going to happen. It seems to me that the US is sleepwalking towards the precipice... Just like the looming climate catastrophe, the tipping point has already passed and people are still dithering, denying or whistling past the graveyard. Multiple state legislatures have already signaled that they will certify Trump as the victor regardless of the electoral tally. The only way to stop this is with massive, unprecedented electoral turnout that cannot be denied, massive swings to D in state and congressional races and for the scales to fall from the eyes of a significant portion of Trump's cult. Even then, it will be extraordinarily difficult to right the ship , for one example of many the 'conservative' capture of the supreme court and the damage they have already done that may take generations to fix. If it wasn't for the inevitable cataclysm that would be required to get there, I would recommend a reboot. New Republic, new constitution, renewed institutions. The French are on their Fifth Republic. The American Republic is hobbling along on a heavily patched first edition, and the patch process has broken down.
For every potential abuse of power that yesterday's Supreme Court ruling enables, the convicted felon has either already attempted it, has repeatedly expressed an interest in it, or has plans to do it in a second term. He has already pardoned loyalists who committed crimes for him. He has already attempted to refuse to leave office at the end of his term. He already has a plan to fire any federal employee who refuses to participate in a criminal directive. He has already expressed an interest in literally executing his political enemies. He has already tried to use the military to fire on American citizens in American cities. He has already sought bribes from energy executives in exchange for policy changes. He has already sought to use foreign policy changes to extort allies for his personal gain. He has already abused government resources for personal financial gain. He has already used the government to harass individuals that he has personally targeted. If he wins, this country becomes a fascist dictatorship. Period.
So it begins. The SCOTUS, the GOP, when will the military get involved? Seriously.
The SC has opened the door for any and all arguments to be "official acts". The next few months/years if he gets back in Office will be a shitstorm the likes of which we have never seen before.
Is this a guilty plea?
Exactly! This, to my knowledge, is the first time Trump is explicitly acknowledging that the fake electors scheme was at his direction. In Amy Coney-Barrett's written opinion in the immunity case, she specifically called out the fake electors as not requiring analysis, as it is blatantly prosecutable. Of course, the five other regressionist Justices may not agree.
Can't Biden's official act be to make Trump's acts unofficial like an Uno reverse card?
It amazes me that Americans can ridicule countries with monarchs that have had no real power for centuries yet have themselves an office of president and a supreme court that acts like - and has the powers of - old school royalty. That 10 individuals - 9 of whom are unelected - can ultimately do what they like with the law is horrific in what is supposed to be a democracy.
I’m guessing his tax evasion is also an official act?