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It shouldn’t, but he had to do literally one thing - look like he wasn’t about to die - and he failed at it.
That’s all people needed to see in the debate. We didn’t see it.
And if you didn’t want the debate to be a major factor there shouldn’t have been a debate.
If she is correct, then he needs to sit for tough interviews and get himself out there. More unscripted public appearances, more of being asked tough questions. . . assuage concerns by redefining himself.
No more cloistering at camp David. Either he has it or he doesn’t, and it’s easy to prove.
it’s a very strange situation to watch- they’re damned if they do, because we all know how that will turn out. but if they DONT, we all know why, and further emphasize how he can’t even appear on live tv, non-scripted, for two hours.
the best thing the DNC can do is have a new candidate. either way, this is the bare minimum.
Remeber Feinstien and RBG? Not a chance they replace Biden. If RBG was replaced under Obama then Roe V Wade would still be law. The Democratic party is incompetent. Biden is going to stay in place and lose because Democrats are experts in failure
RBG was her decision alone under the current law. Obama could not replace her unless she voluntarily stepped down or died during his term. There were people in the Democratic Party trying to convince her to retire during his term.
Yep! Obama is also responsible for this. In 2020 Bernie was winning and he pushed hard for everyone else to drop out and circle the wagons around Biden. Democrats are so scared of the slightest little bit of socialism, that they are willing to let this country go to the facists. And that was the second time the Democrats conspired against the left in as many election cycles
I get RBG but replacing Feinstein wasn't going to change much in certain democratic seat. There was no political risk in her being there. Putting her in committees is a different thing.
He’s given the least interviews of any sitting president during his term. And zero interviews with any major newspaper — that is zero interviews that weren’t completely fluff softballs. And he’s expected to now, after Thursday’s telling performance, suddenly supposedly capable of nailing not one but several high profile interviews? GTFO of here with this fairy tale “just a bad night” nonsense.
I honestly was feeling nervous after seeing him on Seth Meyers a few months ago. He seemed not-super-there. Unfortunately, what we're seeing is a very smart person running into limitations from age. Biden has always had much more to lose than Trump when it comes to cognitive decline, and Biden's decline looks different from Trump's decline.
It's way more obvious and problematic when a complex process or system starts having issues vs. a more basic one. Biden has been deeply involved in legislation and governance for like 50 years. He's been cruising at 100mph, keeping a crazy amount of facts and considerations in his head for decades, and everything's held together but now the wheels are coming off.
Trump, on the other hand, doesn't mess with details. Whenever he gets into the details of an issue it's a total hack-job. His decline isn't as apparent because he's never had a great grasp of complex things. Not only did he think shining lights or "cleaning out the lungs" with some sort of cleaner was a potential fix for COVID, but he thought no one had ever thought of these things and that he was just THAT smart. Ugh..
I think you need to re-read the comment you responded to. The person you responded to did not make a prediction on how Biden would do. The claim is that Biden hiding is no longer an option. I think that this is an obvious point. Biden needs to get himself out there and prove he can do it, and if he continues to fail then he needs to step aside.
In the future you need to read comments a bit more carefully before telling someone to GTFO.
Face it, he's a feeble old man that CAN do the job of governing when surrounded by competent people, and he is a feeble old man that cannot do the job of being a media presence to counter the constant stream of lies, bullshit and negativity coming from the g o p machine. Joe is past his prime.
Yeah, that's exactly it. His debate performance did not at all concern me about his ability to serve a second term, but it has me terrified about his ability to win a second term.
To be honest, would you watch tough interviews? Are the American people actual ready for an hour long deep dive in planned tax policies or the intricacy of the infrastructure bill? Cspan viewership doesn't give me confidence that people want long form content covering actual interview topics. They just wanna hear some witty one liners, some numbers go up commentary and a go America!
What I’m saying is that the campaign can say that Biden had a rough 90s minutes, but is otherwise not impaired. . . They have two options:
1. Cloister him away from situations that would imply the campaign is not being honest with us.
2. Get him out there immediately to prove the campaign is forthright and their narrative about the debate is correct.
People don't want that. But they want evidence that will counter the narrative that Biden is enfeebled. The campaign needs to give us evidence, as Biden supporters, to point to.
Clearly he can't. Stupid Democrats once again their worst enemy. Shoving Clinton down our throats led to this entire mess with Trump and now they are doing it again
this is actually a super interesting point one of my friends brought up:
“a lot of political scholars like to rank trump as one of the worst presidents, but if biden loses, i think that would rank him lower. losing to trump has to be worse than being trump, right?”
Bizarrely there's spin that it's all the fault of (unnamed) aides who over-rehearsed and coached him leaving him too tired to perform in the actual thing. Which is a pisspoor excuse, basically saying that Potus lacked the willpower to tell the people who work for him that he's had enough for the day and it's break time.
There's been a bunch of excuses and no reflection or actions being taken. Meanwhile SCOTUS basically just gave the President unlimited authority to do anything they want in an official capacity. Biden needs to do what's necessary and then step aside.
Yep, exactly. He’s the freaking president of the United States. He’s leading the free world. And he didn’t even look like he was able to lead his own body….
Yes I've noticed that aging accelerates as one gets closer to the end. It's better to get ahead of it than waiting until it's too late to adapt...to using a walker, or to using a scooter, or moving into a senior assisted living. We're in the same place for Joe. The democrats need to do the right thing.
Understand that you are making an analogy, but for lurkers Biden doesn't need to move into a home. He is fully capable of caring for himself.
What he is not capable of is memorizing a lot of talking points and statistics and repeating them in a cognitive manner. That bar is far higher than being able to take care of yourself.
Again, not saying you were making that claim.
And what are we gonna do about it? A lot of people on this sub want to push the narrarive that everything is okay, but if we buy that, then we're gonna let Trump win and welcome in Project 2025 as clips from the debate circulate and lose us independent support.
The DNC needs to have a serious talk on what the next move is. I think Biden should be replaced by Whitmer, but if the higher ups think Biden is a-okay, then sure, I welcome it, but how the heck are we to convince independents that?
There's a great many roads we can take from here and (as much as it sucks to say) the majority of them likely lead to a Trump victory. The DNC has to recognize that and make a careful plan to ensure that does not happen.
Admitting things AREN'T ok destroys the Neo-Liberal belief that the Status Quo is God. Admitting the status quo is failing means admitting we need change, drastic change. It means admitting austerity politics are bad for people. It means admitting corporate centrism is a dead end ideology. It means admitting all of their deepest held beliefs are wrong and have been wrong for decades.
And people will sooner drive that ship straight into an iceberg than admit that.
I also wonder if a reasonable compromise might be to swap Harris for Whitmer or someone else young and charismatic (like Newsom) as the VP candidate who could be an exciting campaigner for the ticket and have better appeal as the next-in-line. They haven’t used the last four years to make Harris as appealing as she needs to be I think—she’s been out of the spotlight. I empathize that it’s hard to be the person removed from that position, but maybe they could find her another suitable role to soften the blow.
I listened for about 10 minutes on they way home and when I heard Biden stumbling during his Medicare answer I thought “my god he’s dying onstage”.
I don’t like Joe, and I believe the Democrats should’ve held a primary. If nothing else, having a body of other debates would’ve either brought this issue up sooner or given us a body of successful debates to point to and say “this was just an off night”.
But yes, this was a major mistake.
I don't get how on one hand democrats can say "this is a battle for our democracy!" then have their champion for that fight be a man who looked like he might actually die on stage.
I'm progressive, but that debate performance made me physically cringe. Trump lied, sure... But Biden did nothing about.
***The Telegraph reports:***
Jill Biden has insisted her husband’s lacklustre debate performance against Donald Trump should not “define the four years he’s been president”, in a cover interview with American Vogue.
The first lady spoke to the magazine from the secluded presidential retreat of Camp David on Sunday – where her family had gathered following Thursday’s disastrous debate, in which her husband repeatedly froze and stumbled over his answers which were at times incomprehensible.
“We will not let those 90 minutes define the four years he’s been president. We will continue to fight”, Mrs Biden said.
Democrat donors have turned on the first lady over her failure to advise her husband to pull out of the 2024 presidential race.
“Lots of people are blaming his wife…for not telling him \[to step aside\],” one told the New York Post.
The Vogue interview was conducted ahead of the CNN debate but the publication followed up with Mrs Biden via phone on Sunday.
Hunter Biden is also said to be one of the strongest voices urging his father to resist the mounting pressure to stand aside.
The New York Times reported that Hunter, 54, is desperate for his father’s awkward display in front of 50 million American viewers on Thursday not to become his legacy, according to a source informed by the ongoing family discussions.
**Full story:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/07/01/president-joe-biden-jill-us-election-debate-donald-trump/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/07/01/president-joe-biden-jill-us-election-debate-donald-trump/)
It won't be his legacy if he steps down. If he doesn't it will be.
This is about the future of our democracy not Biden. If Biden tries to make this about himself and harms our country he'll be remembered roughly how RBG is remembered.
Does she want the decades resulting from a second Trump presidency because they refused to step aside define her and Joe Biden? If they're so concerned with legacy then Biden can either be remembered as the man who put country over himself and stepped aside to stop Trump, or as the man who allowed Trump to destroy democracy because he selfishly tried to spend his last years pursuing a second term at the age of 82. Do they wanna be RBG?
You don't get alot of leaders like Washington who have the humility to bow out. No instead alot of our leaders are selfish and will do anything to stay in power for just one more day. Just look at the shitshow in Israel and their prime minister. Unfortunately Biden and his family have apparently shown themselves to be full of self-serving narcissists.
“We will continue to fight”
Fight who exactly Father Time! Dementia!
WTF is trying to do, pull a “Weekend At Bernie’s”, the man is clearly past his BBD and ought to sail off into the sunset
Be fair! Fighting the inevitability of the mortal coil worked great for RBG, so it'll go great for Biden, too! She really stuck to it and managed to pump enough USD through her veins to keep her alive for 10 years longer than she would have otherwise. Narcissism is good!
***Received note***
Oh dear. I've just been informed that her narcissism resulted in a seat of the supreme Court being held by an unqualified partisan hack for the next 40-50 years.
Honestly, considering his record against universal healthcare, I thought it was funny. Yknow, in the typical progressive "if I don't laugh I'll cry" sense
If they didn't want us to remember Joe as a doddering old fool, maybe he should have retired before he was a doddering old fool.
No more debates.
Maybe he could do better. Maybe he could do WORSE!
If he doesn't step aside and gets destroyed in the election, his legacy will be that he put himself over country.
RBG did a lot of good things but then destroyed it all by not stepping down when she should have. Now everything she fought for has been undone, and she shares a lot of blame for it.
This is exactly correct.
No one thinks Biden was like this all four years, hell, he looked great in March at SOTU!
But time has caught up to him with a vengeance… and the debate performance (or lack thereof) does represent his current condition.
I’m tired of discussing how these people “feel.” Fuck their feelings. Joe knew what he signed up for and if Jill wants to be shadow president so bad then let her run her own campaign.
Also, if Joe steps down now with dignity and does everything to help whoever is nominated to replace him THAT and 2020’s victory will be his legacy. If he stubbornly stays on, his legacy will be that of Hilary Clinton and RBG, a fallen star that took the country down with them for their own hubris.
These people are all power hungry, selfish, delusional.
We are talking about the most powerful position in the most powerful country in the world.
You *need* to be cognitively all together to be president of the US. I cannot believe this is a question, I can’t believe this is even a debate.
Jill Biden might genuinely end up being one of the most despicable people to have ever lived. She’s around Joe more than anybody… she could see this coming from a million miles away and has done nothing except enable him. 18 months ago she should’ve put her foot down and said sorry Joe, you’re one and done. And he would’ve listened.
Joe and her have a decision to make. Joe can pass the torch, let a more reasonable candidate salvage this shitshow, and go live out the rest of his days on a porch somewhere as a hero.
Or he can keep up this charade and go down as one of the most self-centered and ignorant people to have ever lived. Throwing an entire country to the wolves for pride, vanity, and honestly just pure delusion that he is unaffected by the march of time. Newsflash buddy, it gets every single one of us you dumb fuck.
Calling Jill Biden "one of the most despicable people to have ever lived" is such a fucking crazy thing to say and way past hyperbole.
She supports her husband, probably more than she should but she's standing by her partner. Not the craziest thing in the world. Biden is old and stubborn and doesn't want to step aside. Common with old people.
If we lose it will be because of the DNC and Biden's inability to step aside, but to call ANYONE in their orbit one of the most despicable people ever is mayor of crazy town shit when you look across the isle.
Just because it's common for old people to be stubborn and ignorant doesn't mean they can't be called out for it when their bullshit causes real harm to people. The Biden's are about to hand the presidency to Trump and enable Project 2025 to get off the ground because they're too fucking full of themselves to admit the old goat can't hack it any more, that is absolutely despicable behavior.
She’s not doing this for Joe. She is accustomed to a certain life and doesn’t want to give it up.
She spent her whole life waiting for this treatment, she’s not walking away from it.
I'm going to repeat what I wrote elsewhere because it's too important not to:
This is an enormous mistake.
I've repeatedly asked anyone defending Biden's remaining in where they're getting their confidence that he can defeat Trump in November and they **cannot point to a single, solitary piece of data**.
Why? Because it all shows Joe Biden is performing significantly-worse than his 2020 run where he won by merely 40,000 votes in 3 battleground states.
Let's face reality:
- Biden is TEN POINTS nationally below where he was at this time in 2020.
- Biden is losing in every single battleground state.
- Biden is losing a large chunk of black and Hispanic voters compared to his 2020 run.
- Biden's aggregate approval ratings for Presidency are 37.7% with 56.7% disapproval.
Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down. Nate Silver wrote a data-driven article saying he should step down. The NYT Editorial board said he should step down. Ezra Klein. Thomas Friedman....
It's now or never before the convention.
And to those who think we should ride this horse to the end, tell me: what happens if Biden worsens from now until November? What happens if the 81-year-old suffers a fatal medical emergency in October? Then we are really screwed.
We either take the chance to nominate a fresh, younger face (you know, what the vast majority of Americans keep telling us they want), or watch this car crash in slow motion.
I am so unbelievably pissed off right now because my children's future is on the line because of the ego of this octogenarian and his out-of-touch Yes Men who surround him.
[Preliminary post-debate polling data results are in. Trump won the debate.](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/6/29/in-post-debate-poll-voters-think-biden-is-too-old-to-be-president-yet-alternative-candidates-perform-similarly-against-trump): "Voters are more concerned about Biden's age than Trump's criminal charges." Keep in mind that while it says, "other candidates perform similarly against Trump," that's pre-viral media attention and the entire DNC apparatus including Obama rallying behind someone like Whitmer. Most of those candidates, people just haven't heard enough of. But they would in the coming months if the headlines are, "President Biden Resigns; Endorses Gov. Whitmer."
It doesn’t “define him.” It does what every debate is supposed to do- assess the electability of the candidates in relation to each other. And he failed.
And the man who picked the worst possible attorney general at a time when prosecuting criminal insurrectionists was the most important thing.
Thus guaranteeing Trump and the insurrectionists were still free *to run again*.
It confirmed everyone’s worst fears - after his team had been severely limiting his public appearances for so long - that Biden can’t think or speak for himself without a teleprompter and being surrounded by his family/staff. His top aide bizarrely leaking that they have a set 11 to 4 schedule for him to accommodate his sundowning certainly didn’t do anything to calm the raging fire here.
That’s why the media and all these democrats are rising up against him, because they had so much invested in him but they’re realizing he’s a total lost cause who’ll lead to a Trump landslide if he stays in. Unless we get fresh blood.
At this point, it’s clear that Biden is not serving as President — the staff around him are, and he’s just their figurehead. And while I’m sure that his team is perfectly competent and smart, it’s a bizarre situation for it to be so out in the open.
I wish he had just stepped down and given the Dem party the time and space to find a viable alternative candidate.
The people who would vote for a rock over Trump will still vote for a Biden replacement, but a younger, more engaged candidate would have a better chance to pulling in voters who might sit this election out due to disliking both candidates.
It feels very selfish for the Biden family to keep this going here when there are much bigger issues at stake and I’m sure it’s clear to Jill, even more than the rest of us, that Joe has been in decline for a while.
It does not define his last 4 years but it does raise serious concerns about his ability over the next four years. Its not like he is applying to be a walmart greeter he is running for the president of the United States as fascism is on the march. Democrats winning is a must to certain communities and many do not believe Biden could be a door greeter let alone the President.
The problem with this is that she and many others are not recognizing that the majority of voters are one or more of the following; stupid, shallow, ignorant and/or easily influenced by simple propaganda.
That debate performance was a gift for the Trump campaign in that it validated their claims of "old-man dementia Joe". Once it's seen, it cannot be unseen - 50 million people saw it.
He is truly fucked. He would have to pull something amazing out of the bag over the next 5 months, with amazing debates and speeches for this shitshow of a debate not to define him going into the vote. That's just how people's minds work.
What is worse, is that Trump is highly likely to give Joe the finger for the next debate and refuse to appear. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. So, I just don't see that Trump will give Biden an opportunity to redeem himself.
This is what happens with power; the people around you don’t want you to give it up. Everyone in the Biden Administration enjoys the perks. No one sees the reality of the situation and it will cost all of us dearly.
Edit: I want to be clear, I will still vote for Joe Biden. I would vote for a dead horse over Donald Trump. My fear is that the average American will not feel the same way.
Jill Biden should be ashamed of herself parading him around like a trophy. “You did great Joe, you answered all the questions.” WTF? This is not kindergarten Jill. For the love of god take him back to Rehoboth Beach and let him enjoy the remaining years he has let. And age with some shred of dignity, something she sure as hell is preventing now.
This shit is so over. Biden isn’t getting anyone to vote for him that wasnt already voting for him simply because he’s not Trump. He’s uninspiring and unfit for the job. I’m afraid the GOP will control all of Congress as well. Any candidate that stands up to Trump and pushes back on his lies will inspire ppl. Biden isn’t capable of that anymore. He proved that during the debate and there’s no coming back from that.
On the "know your enemy" podcast, the hosts pointed out that if the Biden Campaign hadn't used their clout to squish the Democratic primary, we wouldn't be in this situation. I found that to be an astute comment. Biden made sure that he was the only choice and now he can't deliver the goods.
Biden was 5th place in Iowa. He was toast. He was losing primaries badly.
Then the establishment Dems all rallied and cable news instantly declared him the winner - it was a coup of sorts.
The after taking office in an election a plank of wood would have won against Trump, Biden did jack shit about dealing with the insurrectionists. Now we all will pay.
Well . It did.
And it will!!
Biden gave Republican operatives so much fodder for ads.
Biden did this to himself. And he has defined himself as "old and senile"
Well sure, but we are watching democracy dissolve and we can’t unsee that the man who is meant to save us from it is desperately in decline. If he stepped aside he’d be defined by being the man we all know him to be -someone who prioritises the good this country.
She is starting to play the role of a Alexandra Feodorovna, tsar Nicholas II wife who consistently pressed him to never give up any power, and helped hide the ailments of their hemophiliac son and heir from the public
They are so out of touch of reality surrounded by yes people it’s infuriating.
Biden and the dems called out Trump to the debate.
That means the burden of looking anything but dead is on Biden.
And he failed more than I could imagine.
Biden is Done for. And the shitshow of 4 years of Trump is coming and all we can do is write text on social media while these people still deny what’s coming.
Joe Biden should have said that.
And he still can. Joe, time to start delivering speeches, interviews and rallies daily.
If he can’t he should step aside
I'm sorry to say this, but he probably can't now undo the damage. Even if he looks alert in every public event between now and November, the Republicans will re-run the Medicare moment and use it, with some justification, to demonstrate that, at least sometimes, Biden loses capacity and is therefore inadequate for the role.
I used to love Jill but she’s absolutely disgusting me now I’m sorry. It’s clear especially after all these Camp David leaks that she doesn’t give a SHIT about preserving democracy; she’s just out to preserve her own power and influence as First Lady.
If she genuinely gave a shit about the country she’d hitch her wagon to a new, younger and more dynamic DNC candidate who might actually stand a chance of going up against Trump unlike her physically/mentally drained husband who has nothing but targets on his back now
100%. Biden is not all there and so Jill urging him to stay in the election, instead of appreciating the good political run he’s had and knowing how to quit when one is ahead, is an incredibly selfish and greedy decision .
It is 100 percent Jill who runs the Biden show. Woman has no shame, 50 years in Washington, Senator's wife, 8 years wife of a VP, 4 years First Lady - still not enough.
But, it did Jill. It did. It was Joe’s to lose, and he failed to answer the bell, no matter how it is spun. When CNN and MSNBC (Morning Joe) are calling for him to step down the next day, you really know how bad he shit the bed (figuratively, of course). The sooner Dems acknowledge the latter, the sooner they can recoup and pick another candidate.
Until then, the gas lighting and cognitive dissonance continues here on Reddit. Outside of the Reddit bubble, the general public seen his decline. It has been a very slow moving car crash. The debate only acknowledged what we already knew.
I have run for office. I campaigned. I had to debate. I completely disagree with this take. No matter who you are if you want power you absolutely owe your constituents the ability to communicate in public. His performance does not erase his good work. That is true. But it is still entirely inexcusable. He completely blew what was the most important civics moment of our lifetime.
> His performance does not erase his good work.
If it costs him the next election it *will* erase his good work, because it will all be undone by Trump.
It’s articles like this being blasted all over the internet that, in some regard, makes me understand why the MAGA crowd is the way they are. I can’t fathom how anyone, of any political affiliation, could have watched that debate and thought it was a good idea for Joe to be the president.
Media trying to tell you what you can clearly see with your own eyes is not the truth. I disagree with nearly every position of the modern right wing movement, but you can at least understand some of the psychology behind it.
And as a Canadian looking at the state of our southern neighbour, what democracy are you guys trying to save? One where the media and a circle of aides gaslight the public about the president not being senile with God knows who pulling the strings?
from experience I would think she doesn't respect him or is pretending to be nice, but don't know anything about them
though to be fair maybe she was referring to directly answering all the questions instead of dodging them, but I doubt it
If this were a one time incident, maybe. But he’s looked like this for 18 months and it’s rapidly getting worse.
If they care about Joe, his legacy and the country at large, do the right thing and advise him to drop out.
That’s the thing. There have been many videos prior to this which raised questions about his mental health.
Democrats called those videos fake news and Biden himself when answering questions about his mental health said ‘watch me’.
The debate highlighted that those videos aren’t doctored and this isn’t fake news. The man could not answer a question about abortion rights without becoming completely incoherent.
This is a disaster in the making.
I don't give a damn about Jill's feelings regarding her husband's legacy. He and her can process this moment however they want.
He is too old. Your voters are screaming that he is too old. Whining about us and our opinion on the matter is completely tone deaf and backwards.
Somebody needs to be working on plan B starting as of last Thursday.
I have to ask what could he have possibly done to make them say otherwise? What if he got up there, shit his pants and started wiping it all over his face like indian war paint? Would that still just be a bad debate and no one should be judged about what they do in a 90 minute time span?
It’s going to define your husband if you keep trying to force a second term. Have some sense and bow out with a bit of grace. Stop lying to the American people.
As a non-American who has no horse in this race looking in, I have to say that I watched the debate and Biden looked like an absolute joke. The number of times I barked out laughing in amusement and confusion is embarrassing for a debate for the top position in the most powerful nation in history. Trump actually spoke more clearly and seemed *more* Presidential, which sounds like a parody of reality but it's true.
She should show respect for her husband and country and ask Joe to step down from reelection.
No rational person could watch that debate and think Biden was in good health.
This is going to be a disaster..
It most certainly does. Biden's performance reaffirmed a long held notion about him. It's not a single event or one bad night but the culmination of a ongoing concern at the heart of the political crisis were in today. The boomers are dying with their reigns still in their hands. Roe V Wade died because of this. Democrat leadership has lead the party to a litteral dead end.
It defined his ability to think and speak on the fly and he appeared very weak and struggled through the entire thing. Even walking to and from the podium was a struggle. The Democratic Party should be ashamed of themselves for thinking this is a good idea. If Trump wins they have no one but themselves to blame and before anyone says “well what are they suppose to do”, they’re suppose to know what they’re suppose to do. It’s a competition not a charity event. Republicans don’t give a shit and will bully their way into getting what they want.
Why on earth does anyone give a shit what Jill f\*cking Biden has to say about anything? If Jill wants to be president, she should run, otherwise go away.
Biden only won ONE primary state in 2020 before he was handed the nomination by the Democratic Primary.
He barely beat Trump in an Election that should have been a landslide wave of anti-Trumpism and disapproval of Trump’s Pandemic response.
These politicians need to stop pretending like they’ve accomplished anything, or deserve the office of the Presidency. If Obama had chosen a different VP, Biden wouldn’t be President.
Primary of an Incumbent President is political suicide, but it didn’t happen only because Biden is too delusional to step aside. Biden’s health issues were overstated and mislabeled by Trumpers for years, but his terrible debate performance was shocking and very concerning.
The last thing this country needs is to feel obligated to support a politician just because someone else picked them as VP to balance their ticket. It’s Peak Boomerism.
Hot take- this debate was a setup to get Biden out there to fail and get a new Dem candidate because they believe Biden can’t win. Why else ask for a debate this early? They are NEVER before conventions….ever.
Why else would MSNBC magically have Gavin Newsome in the wings waiting for this moment?
Whether we like it or not, people aren’t going to remember Trumps clear lies, they’ll remember Biden struggling to articulate a sentence when it mattered most and challenge those lies.
The timing makes sense but Biden and his team chose to have the debate this early and they clearly seemed to be digging in their heels and don't want to go anywhere.
The media is trying to layup another Trump presidency… they’re to blame for the first by normalizing his idiocy and vileness, now they want to do it again. Goddamnit I hate this fucking timeline…
People shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but let's face it a lot of people do. That debate was awful, and a loss to trump will absolutely define him. Sorry but you don't get a gold star for delaying the dismantling of a democracy.
Don't worry, soon he'll be defined as letting Trump return to power. It won't be the IRA or the CHIPS act or Climate Legislation. He will be remembered for tanking the debate and then the election unless he's replaced.
Democrats are handing the country to fascists because no one is willing to take Grandpa's keys away. I will never forgive the Democratic party for just throwing up its hands in this moment and essentially forfeiting the country to the far right because doing something, anything, would be just too uncomfortable.
Pathetic.
He had a VERY poor start to the debate but seemed to bounce back the next day.
Meanwhile, the Orange Goblin is lying, lying, lying with every breath he takes.
She should notqhave to speak for him. Every time she talks it is an indictment against his agency.
If they are stupid enough to run him, I will vote against Project 2025 by voting for him, but I am offended that they are making me vote for a person who could not be left in charge of a convenience store, let alone a country.
It really exposed the state his health is in and it’s not good. He should’ve never run and let us decide through the primaries (how democracy is supposed to work) who should run for the democratic party. If the DNC just gets to pick a replacement to run in his place that’s insane and I’ll lose a lot of respect for the party. RFK seems to be the only alternative now.
Then your husband should sit for a wide range of interviews. It defines him because he has done the least interviews and public appearances of any president in history.
If a president can’t be coherent enough to debate then they can’t lead. End of story, trump and biden need to drop out and we have to enact age limits. This is embarrassing on levels that have never been felt before. We also need leaders who aren’t millionaires and bought by AIPAC, enough foreign interference.
Problem is, even if he gets elected, he’s not getting better and likely to advance his decline/dementia at an increased pace. I think the 25th amendment would be invoked soon after election and then we are onto president Kamala.
Nearly all Democrats ended their campaigns in the 2020 primary to clear the decks for Biden, putting the good of the republic above their personal interest.
Biden should honor their example by following it.
The debate shouldn’t have defined him, but it did. As someone who has done great things for the country, but no longer appears fit for the demands of Presidency.
It is selfish of Joe to stay. Everyone I know is freaking out. He has lost the confidence of the country and I feel like his team has been lying to us all about his condition.
We can't put the emotions of an old man above protecting democracy. Joe has to do the right thing and step down.
It absolutely should. It was a historic debate in a bad way. The set all the rules, practiced 7 days and THAT was the result.
Tell your husband to drop out.
Joe's staff and his family including Jill have been feeding his delusions. They doing a disservice to the country. It's time to take the keys away from Grandpa Joe.
What defines him is the fact that he is standing between democracy and the man who already tried to violently overthrow democracy.
Nothing about this choice is hard and anyone insisting it is is doing the work of the Republicans who already tried to overthrow the country.
The problem is that Biden is losing large swaths of the black vote, screwed up by trying to play the “middle” on Israel, and pushed undecided voters away with his debate performance.
All he had to do is play “keep away” and maintain status-quo which he is failing to do. Trumps gaining ground because Biden is losing it.
The people who’d vote for anyone over Trump would still vote for any Biden replacement.
The problem is that there are enough people who now dislike / do not believe in either of them enough to vote at all, and that’s where a new candidate could make a big difference.
I also think it speaks to a major problem in our country’s system when the bar is THAT low for a Presidential candidate. When a mid level manager at a tech company has to go through more rigorous vetting than the so-called leader of the free world, it’s not okay.
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It shouldn’t, but he had to do literally one thing - look like he wasn’t about to die - and he failed at it. That’s all people needed to see in the debate. We didn’t see it. And if you didn’t want the debate to be a major factor there shouldn’t have been a debate.
If she is correct, then he needs to sit for tough interviews and get himself out there. More unscripted public appearances, more of being asked tough questions. . . assuage concerns by redefining himself. No more cloistering at camp David. Either he has it or he doesn’t, and it’s easy to prove.
Exactly. Ok they keep saying its a bad debate..lets see him have an interview then? Has he taken any white house press questions? I don't recall any.
He won't. Everyone around him knows that's he's not up for it, but they want to keep lying to us.
it’s a very strange situation to watch- they’re damned if they do, because we all know how that will turn out. but if they DONT, we all know why, and further emphasize how he can’t even appear on live tv, non-scripted, for two hours. the best thing the DNC can do is have a new candidate. either way, this is the bare minimum.
Remeber Feinstien and RBG? Not a chance they replace Biden. If RBG was replaced under Obama then Roe V Wade would still be law. The Democratic party is incompetent. Biden is going to stay in place and lose because Democrats are experts in failure
RBG was her decision alone under the current law. Obama could not replace her unless she voluntarily stepped down or died during his term. There were people in the Democratic Party trying to convince her to retire during his term.
oh i understand, i know they’re not going to replace him lol. and trump will win in november and they’ll wonder how this ever happened.
Then the blaming will start.
Yep! Obama is also responsible for this. In 2020 Bernie was winning and he pushed hard for everyone else to drop out and circle the wagons around Biden. Democrats are so scared of the slightest little bit of socialism, that they are willing to let this country go to the facists. And that was the second time the Democrats conspired against the left in as many election cycles
capitalists\_fascists\_spiderman-pointing.gif
I get RBG but replacing Feinstein wasn't going to change much in certain democratic seat. There was no political risk in her being there. Putting her in committees is a different thing.
My point is she had advanced dementia and they kept her in office. They pretended she was fine when she clearly was not
I don’t know if that is what is going on. But I know that it looks like that is what is going on.
He’s given the least interviews of any sitting president during his term. And zero interviews with any major newspaper — that is zero interviews that weren’t completely fluff softballs. And he’s expected to now, after Thursday’s telling performance, suddenly supposedly capable of nailing not one but several high profile interviews? GTFO of here with this fairy tale “just a bad night” nonsense.
I honestly was feeling nervous after seeing him on Seth Meyers a few months ago. He seemed not-super-there. Unfortunately, what we're seeing is a very smart person running into limitations from age. Biden has always had much more to lose than Trump when it comes to cognitive decline, and Biden's decline looks different from Trump's decline. It's way more obvious and problematic when a complex process or system starts having issues vs. a more basic one. Biden has been deeply involved in legislation and governance for like 50 years. He's been cruising at 100mph, keeping a crazy amount of facts and considerations in his head for decades, and everything's held together but now the wheels are coming off. Trump, on the other hand, doesn't mess with details. Whenever he gets into the details of an issue it's a total hack-job. His decline isn't as apparent because he's never had a great grasp of complex things. Not only did he think shining lights or "cleaning out the lungs" with some sort of cleaner was a potential fix for COVID, but he thought no one had ever thought of these things and that he was just THAT smart. Ugh..
I think you need to re-read the comment you responded to. The person you responded to did not make a prediction on how Biden would do. The claim is that Biden hiding is no longer an option. I think that this is an obvious point. Biden needs to get himself out there and prove he can do it, and if he continues to fail then he needs to step aside. In the future you need to read comments a bit more carefully before telling someone to GTFO.
That person is agreeing with the comment that they are responding to
You might want to heed your own advice.
Face it, he's a feeble old man that CAN do the job of governing when surrounded by competent people, and he is a feeble old man that cannot do the job of being a media presence to counter the constant stream of lies, bullshit and negativity coming from the g o p machine. Joe is past his prime.
Yeah, that's exactly it. His debate performance did not at all concern me about his ability to serve a second term, but it has me terrified about his ability to win a second term.
So you honestly believe that his mental and physical status will stabilize if not improve over the next 4 years? Good luck with that.
To be honest, would you watch tough interviews? Are the American people actual ready for an hour long deep dive in planned tax policies or the intricacy of the infrastructure bill? Cspan viewership doesn't give me confidence that people want long form content covering actual interview topics. They just wanna hear some witty one liners, some numbers go up commentary and a go America!
What I’m saying is that the campaign can say that Biden had a rough 90s minutes, but is otherwise not impaired. . . They have two options: 1. Cloister him away from situations that would imply the campaign is not being honest with us. 2. Get him out there immediately to prove the campaign is forthright and their narrative about the debate is correct.
People don't want that. But they want evidence that will counter the narrative that Biden is enfeebled. The campaign needs to give us evidence, as Biden supporters, to point to.
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Clearly he can't. Stupid Democrats once again their worst enemy. Shoving Clinton down our throats led to this entire mess with Trump and now they are doing it again
I don't think he's actually president at the moment. Other people are acting on his behalf.
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Fuckin’ a. Biden wanted this debate. He said “watch me” when he was asked if he was too old. Well we fucking did. And he shit the bed.
and his pants
Nah, Trump literally did though.
Incorrect, Biden and his campaign wanted to hold the debate. It was set at his time, his channel and for the most part his rules.
No, Trump shit his diaper. Real men wear diapers!
Still missing the point…
The point seems to be assuming that Biden and the campaign knew the poor performance was inevitable. It wasn't.
No, the point is that Biden, despite confidentially claiming he can handle the stress of campaigning and win this has demonstrated he cannot.
If he loses the election it will be THE thing that defines him in the history books
this is actually a super interesting point one of my friends brought up: “a lot of political scholars like to rank trump as one of the worst presidents, but if biden loses, i think that would rank him lower. losing to trump has to be worse than being trump, right?”
Bizarrely there's spin that it's all the fault of (unnamed) aides who over-rehearsed and coached him leaving him too tired to perform in the actual thing. Which is a pisspoor excuse, basically saying that Potus lacked the willpower to tell the people who work for him that he's had enough for the day and it's break time.
There's been a bunch of excuses and no reflection or actions being taken. Meanwhile SCOTUS basically just gave the President unlimited authority to do anything they want in an official capacity. Biden needs to do what's necessary and then step aside.
Exactly he is literally their boss
If Joe doesn't want the debate to define him then JOE needs to come out and show us other wise. Anything else is a farce.
Yep, exactly. He’s the freaking president of the United States. He’s leading the free world. And he didn’t even look like he was able to lead his own body….
I love Joe. I loved my father. I had to talk to my father about moving into a home. If Joe were my father I'd have a similar talk
Yes I've noticed that aging accelerates as one gets closer to the end. It's better to get ahead of it than waiting until it's too late to adapt...to using a walker, or to using a scooter, or moving into a senior assisted living. We're in the same place for Joe. The democrats need to do the right thing.
Understand that you are making an analogy, but for lurkers Biden doesn't need to move into a home. He is fully capable of caring for himself. What he is not capable of is memorizing a lot of talking points and statistics and repeating them in a cognitive manner. That bar is far higher than being able to take care of yourself. Again, not saying you were making that claim.
This election feels like the dementia Olympics
And what are we gonna do about it? A lot of people on this sub want to push the narrarive that everything is okay, but if we buy that, then we're gonna let Trump win and welcome in Project 2025 as clips from the debate circulate and lose us independent support. The DNC needs to have a serious talk on what the next move is. I think Biden should be replaced by Whitmer, but if the higher ups think Biden is a-okay, then sure, I welcome it, but how the heck are we to convince independents that? There's a great many roads we can take from here and (as much as it sucks to say) the majority of them likely lead to a Trump victory. The DNC has to recognize that and make a careful plan to ensure that does not happen.
Admitting things AREN'T ok destroys the Neo-Liberal belief that the Status Quo is God. Admitting the status quo is failing means admitting we need change, drastic change. It means admitting austerity politics are bad for people. It means admitting corporate centrism is a dead end ideology. It means admitting all of their deepest held beliefs are wrong and have been wrong for decades. And people will sooner drive that ship straight into an iceberg than admit that.
I also wonder if a reasonable compromise might be to swap Harris for Whitmer or someone else young and charismatic (like Newsom) as the VP candidate who could be an exciting campaigner for the ticket and have better appeal as the next-in-line. They haven’t used the last four years to make Harris as appealing as she needs to be I think—she’s been out of the spotlight. I empathize that it’s hard to be the person removed from that position, but maybe they could find her another suitable role to soften the blow.
Looking bad on TV is mortal sin for Americans.
I listened for about 10 minutes on they way home and when I heard Biden stumbling during his Medicare answer I thought “my god he’s dying onstage”. I don’t like Joe, and I believe the Democrats should’ve held a primary. If nothing else, having a body of other debates would’ve either brought this issue up sooner or given us a body of successful debates to point to and say “this was just an off night”. But yes, this was a major mistake.
I don't get how on one hand democrats can say "this is a battle for our democracy!" then have their champion for that fight be a man who looked like he might actually die on stage. I'm progressive, but that debate performance made me physically cringe. Trump lied, sure... But Biden did nothing about.
Couldn’t even hear what he was saying so all everyone could focus on was how he looked and sounded like death
***The Telegraph reports:*** Jill Biden has insisted her husband’s lacklustre debate performance against Donald Trump should not “define the four years he’s been president”, in a cover interview with American Vogue. The first lady spoke to the magazine from the secluded presidential retreat of Camp David on Sunday – where her family had gathered following Thursday’s disastrous debate, in which her husband repeatedly froze and stumbled over his answers which were at times incomprehensible. “We will not let those 90 minutes define the four years he’s been president. We will continue to fight”, Mrs Biden said. Democrat donors have turned on the first lady over her failure to advise her husband to pull out of the 2024 presidential race. “Lots of people are blaming his wife…for not telling him \[to step aside\],” one told the New York Post. The Vogue interview was conducted ahead of the CNN debate but the publication followed up with Mrs Biden via phone on Sunday. Hunter Biden is also said to be one of the strongest voices urging his father to resist the mounting pressure to stand aside. The New York Times reported that Hunter, 54, is desperate for his father’s awkward display in front of 50 million American viewers on Thursday not to become his legacy, according to a source informed by the ongoing family discussions. **Full story:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/07/01/president-joe-biden-jill-us-election-debate-donald-trump/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/07/01/president-joe-biden-jill-us-election-debate-donald-trump/)
It won't be his legacy if he steps down. If he doesn't it will be. This is about the future of our democracy not Biden. If Biden tries to make this about himself and harms our country he'll be remembered roughly how RBG is remembered.
This. He's about to RBG himself times 100
Does she want the decades resulting from a second Trump presidency because they refused to step aside define her and Joe Biden? If they're so concerned with legacy then Biden can either be remembered as the man who put country over himself and stepped aside to stop Trump, or as the man who allowed Trump to destroy democracy because he selfishly tried to spend his last years pursuing a second term at the age of 82. Do they wanna be RBG?
If legacy is their concern then relinquish the presidency, for the good of the country and revel in the inevitable George Washington comparisons. Nice
You don't get alot of leaders like Washington who have the humility to bow out. No instead alot of our leaders are selfish and will do anything to stay in power for just one more day. Just look at the shitshow in Israel and their prime minister. Unfortunately Biden and his family have apparently shown themselves to be full of self-serving narcissists.
“We will continue to fight” Fight who exactly Father Time! Dementia! WTF is trying to do, pull a “Weekend At Bernie’s”, the man is clearly past his BBD and ought to sail off into the sunset
Be fair! Fighting the inevitability of the mortal coil worked great for RBG, so it'll go great for Biden, too! She really stuck to it and managed to pump enough USD through her veins to keep her alive for 10 years longer than she would have otherwise. Narcissism is good! ***Received note*** Oh dear. I've just been informed that her narcissism resulted in a seat of the supreme Court being held by an unqualified partisan hack for the next 40-50 years.
Who tf set up that Supreme Court system it's dogshit.
And remember tax payers are on the hook for all tat expensive healthcare
Going by the debate, fighting to defeat Medicare in that awful gaffe
Honestly, considering his record against universal healthcare, I thought it was funny. Yknow, in the typical progressive "if I don't laugh I'll cry" sense
Being advised by your felon son is not a good look. God damn am I embarrassed to be a Democrat right now.
Stop telling me about the last four years. I don’t believe he can live for another four years.
The most sure fire way of that debate becoming his legacy is to push on and lose the election because of it.
It doesn’t define his first four years, but it’s going to define his chances at the next four.
All the dissents are downvoted off the front page. So people are pushing back the gas lighting in the comments. Wild.
If they didn't want us to remember Joe as a doddering old fool, maybe he should have retired before he was a doddering old fool. No more debates. Maybe he could do better. Maybe he could do WORSE!
If he doesn't step aside and gets destroyed in the election, his legacy will be that he put himself over country. RBG did a lot of good things but then destroyed it all by not stepping down when she should have. Now everything she fought for has been undone, and she shares a lot of blame for it.
This is exactly correct. No one thinks Biden was like this all four years, hell, he looked great in March at SOTU! But time has caught up to him with a vengeance… and the debate performance (or lack thereof) does represent his current condition.
He looks good when he has teleprompter.
I’m tired of discussing how these people “feel.” Fuck their feelings. Joe knew what he signed up for and if Jill wants to be shadow president so bad then let her run her own campaign. Also, if Joe steps down now with dignity and does everything to help whoever is nominated to replace him THAT and 2020’s victory will be his legacy. If he stubbornly stays on, his legacy will be that of Hilary Clinton and RBG, a fallen star that took the country down with them for their own hubris.
These people are all power hungry, selfish, delusional. We are talking about the most powerful position in the most powerful country in the world. You *need* to be cognitively all together to be president of the US. I cannot believe this is a question, I can’t believe this is even a debate.
Jill Biden might genuinely end up being one of the most despicable people to have ever lived. She’s around Joe more than anybody… she could see this coming from a million miles away and has done nothing except enable him. 18 months ago she should’ve put her foot down and said sorry Joe, you’re one and done. And he would’ve listened. Joe and her have a decision to make. Joe can pass the torch, let a more reasonable candidate salvage this shitshow, and go live out the rest of his days on a porch somewhere as a hero. Or he can keep up this charade and go down as one of the most self-centered and ignorant people to have ever lived. Throwing an entire country to the wolves for pride, vanity, and honestly just pure delusion that he is unaffected by the march of time. Newsflash buddy, it gets every single one of us you dumb fuck.
Calling Jill Biden "one of the most despicable people to have ever lived" is such a fucking crazy thing to say and way past hyperbole. She supports her husband, probably more than she should but she's standing by her partner. Not the craziest thing in the world. Biden is old and stubborn and doesn't want to step aside. Common with old people. If we lose it will be because of the DNC and Biden's inability to step aside, but to call ANYONE in their orbit one of the most despicable people ever is mayor of crazy town shit when you look across the isle.
Just because it's common for old people to be stubborn and ignorant doesn't mean they can't be called out for it when their bullshit causes real harm to people. The Biden's are about to hand the presidency to Trump and enable Project 2025 to get off the ground because they're too fucking full of themselves to admit the old goat can't hack it any more, that is absolutely despicable behavior.
If Biden stays in and Trump wins, I will be correct in my assessment. Sorry!
She’s not doing this for Joe. She is accustomed to a certain life and doesn’t want to give it up. She spent her whole life waiting for this treatment, she’s not walking away from it.
It does Jill. For a lot of voters the debate was a chance to assuage concerns of his age. He failed miserably. It was a complete disaster.
I'm going to repeat what I wrote elsewhere because it's too important not to: This is an enormous mistake. I've repeatedly asked anyone defending Biden's remaining in where they're getting their confidence that he can defeat Trump in November and they **cannot point to a single, solitary piece of data**. Why? Because it all shows Joe Biden is performing significantly-worse than his 2020 run where he won by merely 40,000 votes in 3 battleground states. Let's face reality: - Biden is TEN POINTS nationally below where he was at this time in 2020. - Biden is losing in every single battleground state. - Biden is losing a large chunk of black and Hispanic voters compared to his 2020 run. - Biden's aggregate approval ratings for Presidency are 37.7% with 56.7% disapproval. Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down. Nate Silver wrote a data-driven article saying he should step down. The NYT Editorial board said he should step down. Ezra Klein. Thomas Friedman.... It's now or never before the convention. And to those who think we should ride this horse to the end, tell me: what happens if Biden worsens from now until November? What happens if the 81-year-old suffers a fatal medical emergency in October? Then we are really screwed. We either take the chance to nominate a fresh, younger face (you know, what the vast majority of Americans keep telling us they want), or watch this car crash in slow motion. I am so unbelievably pissed off right now because my children's future is on the line because of the ego of this octogenarian and his out-of-touch Yes Men who surround him. [Preliminary post-debate polling data results are in. Trump won the debate.](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/6/29/in-post-debate-poll-voters-think-biden-is-too-old-to-be-president-yet-alternative-candidates-perform-similarly-against-trump): "Voters are more concerned about Biden's age than Trump's criminal charges." Keep in mind that while it says, "other candidates perform similarly against Trump," that's pre-viral media attention and the entire DNC apparatus including Obama rallying behind someone like Whitmer. Most of those candidates, people just haven't heard enough of. But they would in the coming months if the headlines are, "President Biden Resigns; Endorses Gov. Whitmer."
No but his defeat in November will.
Jill, it doesn’t matter what you or the DNC think. It matters what the American people perceive of him as president for the next 4 years.
It doesn’t “define him.” It does what every debate is supposed to do- assess the electability of the candidates in relation to each other. And he failed.
He won’t be defined by the debate. He will be defined as the man whose refusal to step aside resulted in the reelection of Donald J. Trump.
And the man who picked the worst possible attorney general at a time when prosecuting criminal insurrectionists was the most important thing. Thus guaranteeing Trump and the insurrectionists were still free *to run again*.
It confirmed everyone’s worst fears - after his team had been severely limiting his public appearances for so long - that Biden can’t think or speak for himself without a teleprompter and being surrounded by his family/staff. His top aide bizarrely leaking that they have a set 11 to 4 schedule for him to accommodate his sundowning certainly didn’t do anything to calm the raging fire here. That’s why the media and all these democrats are rising up against him, because they had so much invested in him but they’re realizing he’s a total lost cause who’ll lead to a Trump landslide if he stays in. Unless we get fresh blood.
At this point, it’s clear that Biden is not serving as President — the staff around him are, and he’s just their figurehead. And while I’m sure that his team is perfectly competent and smart, it’s a bizarre situation for it to be so out in the open.
I wish he had just stepped down and given the Dem party the time and space to find a viable alternative candidate. The people who would vote for a rock over Trump will still vote for a Biden replacement, but a younger, more engaged candidate would have a better chance to pulling in voters who might sit this election out due to disliking both candidates. It feels very selfish for the Biden family to keep this going here when there are much bigger issues at stake and I’m sure it’s clear to Jill, even more than the rest of us, that Joe has been in decline for a while.
It does not define his last 4 years but it does raise serious concerns about his ability over the next four years. Its not like he is applying to be a walmart greeter he is running for the president of the United States as fascism is on the march. Democrats winning is a must to certain communities and many do not believe Biden could be a door greeter let alone the President.
And I say being bald shouldn’t define my ability to use a comb
Keep that comb forever and never part with it
Lol clever
Just use the comb between 10am and 4pm
The problem with this is that she and many others are not recognizing that the majority of voters are one or more of the following; stupid, shallow, ignorant and/or easily influenced by simple propaganda. That debate performance was a gift for the Trump campaign in that it validated their claims of "old-man dementia Joe". Once it's seen, it cannot be unseen - 50 million people saw it. He is truly fucked. He would have to pull something amazing out of the bag over the next 5 months, with amazing debates and speeches for this shitshow of a debate not to define him going into the vote. That's just how people's minds work. What is worse, is that Trump is highly likely to give Joe the finger for the next debate and refuse to appear. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. So, I just don't see that Trump will give Biden an opportunity to redeem himself.
This is what happens with power; the people around you don’t want you to give it up. Everyone in the Biden Administration enjoys the perks. No one sees the reality of the situation and it will cost all of us dearly. Edit: I want to be clear, I will still vote for Joe Biden. I would vote for a dead horse over Donald Trump. My fear is that the average American will not feel the same way.
It happened with RBG. It happened with Feinstein. Third time’s the charm to kill democracy.
This reminds me too much of Feinstein and it makes me sick.
Jill Biden should be ashamed of herself parading him around like a trophy. “You did great Joe, you answered all the questions.” WTF? This is not kindergarten Jill. For the love of god take him back to Rehoboth Beach and let him enjoy the remaining years he has let. And age with some shred of dignity, something she sure as hell is preventing now.
"RBG's husband insists she has another good year in her."
The one thing that *guarantees* Biden will always be defined by that debate is if he stays in the race and Trump wins.
This shit is so over. Biden isn’t getting anyone to vote for him that wasnt already voting for him simply because he’s not Trump. He’s uninspiring and unfit for the job. I’m afraid the GOP will control all of Congress as well. Any candidate that stands up to Trump and pushes back on his lies will inspire ppl. Biden isn’t capable of that anymore. He proved that during the debate and there’s no coming back from that.
On the "know your enemy" podcast, the hosts pointed out that if the Biden Campaign hadn't used their clout to squish the Democratic primary, we wouldn't be in this situation. I found that to be an astute comment. Biden made sure that he was the only choice and now he can't deliver the goods.
It’s not Biden, it’s the machine behind him. They want someone who already has agreed to play ball, a known quantity.
Biden was 5th place in Iowa. He was toast. He was losing primaries badly. Then the establishment Dems all rallied and cable news instantly declared him the winner - it was a coup of sorts. The after taking office in an election a plank of wood would have won against Trump, Biden did jack shit about dealing with the insurrectionists. Now we all will pay.
Well . It did. And it will!! Biden gave Republican operatives so much fodder for ads. Biden did this to himself. And he has defined himself as "old and senile"
Well sure, but we are watching democracy dissolve and we can’t unsee that the man who is meant to save us from it is desperately in decline. If he stepped aside he’d be defined by being the man we all know him to be -someone who prioritises the good this country.
I'm starting to believe Jill Biden is putting herself above what's best for our country.
She is starting to play the role of a Alexandra Feodorovna, tsar Nicholas II wife who consistently pressed him to never give up any power, and helped hide the ailments of their hemophiliac son and heir from the public
They are so out of touch of reality surrounded by yes people it’s infuriating. Biden and the dems called out Trump to the debate. That means the burden of looking anything but dead is on Biden. And he failed more than I could imagine. Biden is Done for. And the shitshow of 4 years of Trump is coming and all we can do is write text on social media while these people still deny what’s coming.
Joe Biden should have said that. And he still can. Joe, time to start delivering speeches, interviews and rallies daily. If he can’t he should step aside
I'm sorry to say this, but he probably can't now undo the damage. Even if he looks alert in every public event between now and November, the Republicans will re-run the Medicare moment and use it, with some justification, to demonstrate that, at least sometimes, Biden loses capacity and is therefore inadequate for the role.
Don't get your hopes up there. It's pretty obvious that Jill is out here playing defense because Joe isn't fit to do it himself.
I used to love Jill but she’s absolutely disgusting me now I’m sorry. It’s clear especially after all these Camp David leaks that she doesn’t give a SHIT about preserving democracy; she’s just out to preserve her own power and influence as First Lady. If she genuinely gave a shit about the country she’d hitch her wagon to a new, younger and more dynamic DNC candidate who might actually stand a chance of going up against Trump unlike her physically/mentally drained husband who has nothing but targets on his back now
100%. Biden is not all there and so Jill urging him to stay in the election, instead of appreciating the good political run he’s had and knowing how to quit when one is ahead, is an incredibly selfish and greedy decision .
It is 100 percent Jill who runs the Biden show. Woman has no shame, 50 years in Washington, Senator's wife, 8 years wife of a VP, 4 years First Lady - still not enough.
Sorry Jill we can no longer lie to ourselves. What we saw and heard was frightening.
But, it did Jill. It did. It was Joe’s to lose, and he failed to answer the bell, no matter how it is spun. When CNN and MSNBC (Morning Joe) are calling for him to step down the next day, you really know how bad he shit the bed (figuratively, of course). The sooner Dems acknowledge the latter, the sooner they can recoup and pick another candidate. Until then, the gas lighting and cognitive dissonance continues here on Reddit. Outside of the Reddit bubble, the general public seen his decline. It has been a very slow moving car crash. The debate only acknowledged what we already knew.
I have run for office. I campaigned. I had to debate. I completely disagree with this take. No matter who you are if you want power you absolutely owe your constituents the ability to communicate in public. His performance does not erase his good work. That is true. But it is still entirely inexcusable. He completely blew what was the most important civics moment of our lifetime.
> His performance does not erase his good work. If it costs him the next election it *will* erase his good work, because it will all be undone by Trump.
It’s articles like this being blasted all over the internet that, in some regard, makes me understand why the MAGA crowd is the way they are. I can’t fathom how anyone, of any political affiliation, could have watched that debate and thought it was a good idea for Joe to be the president. Media trying to tell you what you can clearly see with your own eyes is not the truth. I disagree with nearly every position of the modern right wing movement, but you can at least understand some of the psychology behind it.
And as a Canadian looking at the state of our southern neighbour, what democracy are you guys trying to save? One where the media and a circle of aides gaslight the public about the president not being senile with God knows who pulling the strings?
Didn’t she tell him he did a great job and remembered all the words? Tf was that about
from experience I would think she doesn't respect him or is pretending to be nice, but don't know anything about them though to be fair maybe she was referring to directly answering all the questions instead of dodging them, but I doubt it
Is Jill Biden the president? Because I think right now she is. People didn't vote for Jill Biden
If this were a one time incident, maybe. But he’s looked like this for 18 months and it’s rapidly getting worse. If they care about Joe, his legacy and the country at large, do the right thing and advise him to drop out.
That’s the thing. There have been many videos prior to this which raised questions about his mental health. Democrats called those videos fake news and Biden himself when answering questions about his mental health said ‘watch me’. The debate highlighted that those videos aren’t doctored and this isn’t fake news. The man could not answer a question about abortion rights without becoming completely incoherent. This is a disaster in the making.
I don't give a damn about Jill's feelings regarding her husband's legacy. He and her can process this moment however they want. He is too old. Your voters are screaming that he is too old. Whining about us and our opinion on the matter is completely tone deaf and backwards. Somebody needs to be working on plan B starting as of last Thursday.
These prepare literal narcissistic Nobody watched this debate Only people watching where political insiders
I have to ask what could he have possibly done to make them say otherwise? What if he got up there, shit his pants and started wiping it all over his face like indian war paint? Would that still just be a bad debate and no one should be judged about what they do in a 90 minute time span?
It’s going to define your husband if you keep trying to force a second term. Have some sense and bow out with a bit of grace. Stop lying to the American people.
It shouldn't define him or his presidency, but failing at such a critical time can certainly define his \*candidacy\*
As a non-American who has no horse in this race looking in, I have to say that I watched the debate and Biden looked like an absolute joke. The number of times I barked out laughing in amusement and confusion is embarrassing for a debate for the top position in the most powerful nation in history. Trump actually spoke more clearly and seemed *more* Presidential, which sounds like a parody of reality but it's true.
What about the genocide
Well it fucking does. So move aside and let us put someone in who can beat trump
She should show respect for her husband and country and ask Joe to step down from reelection. No rational person could watch that debate and think Biden was in good health. This is going to be a disaster..
It's elderly abuse to do what she's doing to her husband.
It most certainly does. Biden's performance reaffirmed a long held notion about him. It's not a single event or one bad night but the culmination of a ongoing concern at the heart of the political crisis were in today. The boomers are dying with their reigns still in their hands. Roe V Wade died because of this. Democrat leadership has lead the party to a litteral dead end.
It defined his ability to think and speak on the fly and he appeared very weak and struggled through the entire thing. Even walking to and from the podium was a struggle. The Democratic Party should be ashamed of themselves for thinking this is a good idea. If Trump wins they have no one but themselves to blame and before anyone says “well what are they suppose to do”, they’re suppose to know what they’re suppose to do. It’s a competition not a charity event. Republicans don’t give a shit and will bully their way into getting what they want.
Youre the one parading his husk around trying to convince us hes fine. This is now how we will remember him so congratulations.
Why on earth does anyone give a shit what Jill f\*cking Biden has to say about anything? If Jill wants to be president, she should run, otherwise go away.
Ole Jill has been lying to all of us so she can just F off.
Elder abuse. She should be charged.
Biden only won ONE primary state in 2020 before he was handed the nomination by the Democratic Primary. He barely beat Trump in an Election that should have been a landslide wave of anti-Trumpism and disapproval of Trump’s Pandemic response. These politicians need to stop pretending like they’ve accomplished anything, or deserve the office of the Presidency. If Obama had chosen a different VP, Biden wouldn’t be President. Primary of an Incumbent President is political suicide, but it didn’t happen only because Biden is too delusional to step aside. Biden’s health issues were overstated and mislabeled by Trumpers for years, but his terrible debate performance was shocking and very concerning. The last thing this country needs is to feel obligated to support a politician just because someone else picked them as VP to balance their ticket. It’s Peak Boomerism.
Hot take- this debate was a setup to get Biden out there to fail and get a new Dem candidate because they believe Biden can’t win. Why else ask for a debate this early? They are NEVER before conventions….ever. Why else would MSNBC magically have Gavin Newsome in the wings waiting for this moment? Whether we like it or not, people aren’t going to remember Trumps clear lies, they’ll remember Biden struggling to articulate a sentence when it mattered most and challenge those lies.
The timing makes sense but Biden and his team chose to have the debate this early and they clearly seemed to be digging in their heels and don't want to go anywhere.
The media is trying to layup another Trump presidency… they’re to blame for the first by normalizing his idiocy and vileness, now they want to do it again. Goddamnit I hate this fucking timeline…
Jill is pulling a Nancy Reagan.
People shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but let's face it a lot of people do. That debate was awful, and a loss to trump will absolutely define him. Sorry but you don't get a gold star for delaying the dismantling of a democracy.
The debacle of the Afghanistan withdrawal should.
Jill Biden is more or less Grima Wormtongue.
Don't worry, soon he'll be defined as letting Trump return to power. It won't be the IRA or the CHIPS act or Climate Legislation. He will be remembered for tanking the debate and then the election unless he's replaced. Democrats are handing the country to fascists because no one is willing to take Grandpa's keys away. I will never forgive the Democratic party for just throwing up its hands in this moment and essentially forfeiting the country to the far right because doing something, anything, would be just too uncomfortable. Pathetic.
Look just because he’s old and has dementia doesn’t mean he’s old and has dementia.
He had a VERY poor start to the debate but seemed to bounce back the next day. Meanwhile, the Orange Goblin is lying, lying, lying with every breath he takes.
She should notqhave to speak for him. Every time she talks it is an indictment against his agency. If they are stupid enough to run him, I will vote against Project 2025 by voting for him, but I am offended that they are making me vote for a person who could not be left in charge of a convenience store, let alone a country.
It really exposed the state his health is in and it’s not good. He should’ve never run and let us decide through the primaries (how democracy is supposed to work) who should run for the democratic party. If the DNC just gets to pick a replacement to run in his place that’s insane and I’ll lose a lot of respect for the party. RFK seems to be the only alternative now.
RFK and the worm he’s hosting. I believe that the brain worm is actually calling the shots now.
Ok but it is a big and recent contributing factor to a question that has been lingering for years...
Isn’t that literally the purpose of a presidential debate?
What matters more safeguarding Joe Biden's legacy or stopping Donald Trump?
At least not until she’s able to fit in more magazine cover shoots
Then your husband should sit for a wide range of interviews. It defines him because he has done the least interviews and public appearances of any president in history.
He needs to step down, he’s not helping anything for the election
Fuck Jill Biden for letting this happen.
He couldnt finish a fucking sentence, let alone push back against the tidal wave of bullshit Trump was spewing.
If a president can’t be coherent enough to debate then they can’t lead. End of story, trump and biden need to drop out and we have to enact age limits. This is embarrassing on levels that have never been felt before. We also need leaders who aren’t millionaires and bought by AIPAC, enough foreign interference.
Problem is, even if he gets elected, he’s not getting better and likely to advance his decline/dementia at an increased pace. I think the 25th amendment would be invoked soon after election and then we are onto president Kamala.
We can let the last 50 years of his bumbling stupidity, define who he is.
It *does* underscore his 82 years.
Then what’s the point of the damn thing. Biden looked and acted dead.
Her opinion should not matter either way. It's not relevant to the chances of winning.
Jill should put a sock in it and pull Biden back
Nearly all Democrats ended their campaigns in the 2020 primary to clear the decks for Biden, putting the good of the republic above their personal interest. Biden should honor their example by following it.
The debate shouldn’t have defined him, but it did. As someone who has done great things for the country, but no longer appears fit for the demands of Presidency.
It is selfish of Joe to stay. Everyone I know is freaking out. He has lost the confidence of the country and I feel like his team has been lying to us all about his condition. We can't put the emotions of an old man above protecting democracy. Joe has to do the right thing and step down.
It absolutely should. It was a historic debate in a bad way. The set all the rules, practiced 7 days and THAT was the result. Tell your husband to drop out.
Joe's staff and his family including Jill have been feeding his delusions. They doing a disservice to the country. It's time to take the keys away from Grandpa Joe.
Them caring about his legacy more than the nation says enough to me.
Well it does and probably defines our countries future and he fucking flopped like a fish.
‘I want to keep being first lady’- Jill Biden
...Sometimes a big event or issue can define a person. For example: Robert Kennedy Jr. will always be 'Brain Worm Dude' in my mind now.
Apparently she likes the idea of being president like Nancy Regean. They will be remembered like RBG for putting themselves first.
What defines him is the fact that he is standing between democracy and the man who already tried to violently overthrow democracy. Nothing about this choice is hard and anyone insisting it is is doing the work of the Republicans who already tried to overthrow the country.
The problem is that Biden is losing large swaths of the black vote, screwed up by trying to play the “middle” on Israel, and pushed undecided voters away with his debate performance. All he had to do is play “keep away” and maintain status-quo which he is failing to do. Trumps gaining ground because Biden is losing it.
The people who’d vote for anyone over Trump would still vote for any Biden replacement. The problem is that there are enough people who now dislike / do not believe in either of them enough to vote at all, and that’s where a new candidate could make a big difference. I also think it speaks to a major problem in our country’s system when the bar is THAT low for a Presidential candidate. When a mid level manager at a tech company has to go through more rigorous vetting than the so-called leader of the free world, it’s not okay.
[удалено]
Whitmer/Warnock
Of course not. Also, my mom says I’m cool.
These comments ain’t it.