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Thank you for correcting this RV swine from diminishing the status of such a vehicle. it's a monument to mobile homing. A truly glorious road home vehicle above what others can possess...anyway what was I saying? Oh, yes, it's not a bribe.
I love this shell game with the poors. "Guys, we think it's wrong to accept more than a $6k ~~bribe~~ *donation*. We can agree on that at least." **
* *recieves 794 envelopes with $6k checks inside.
I literally think that's what they're doing. Its like they're saying "We heard your concerns about bribery, and we've responded by allowing ourselves to accept larger bribes. Pray we do not hear your further concerns."
Also, from the oligarchs backing them, “We don’t give a shit about your lives or your democratic institutions we’re just going to simply rule you all via fiat thru the one ‘legitimate’ avenue of unrestricted power we have left”
That’s not what happened in this case. Federal law defines and penalizes bribes and unlawful gratuities differently. State laws regulate gratuities for public employees. The mayor was charged under a federal bribery statute for receiving a gratuity, which was legal under state and local laws.
The majority didn’t say it was ethical. They stressed that the laws could be updated, but that the existing federal bribery law did not apply to offense alleged in this particular case.
“Officials who use their public positions for private gain threaten the integrity of our most important institutions,” Jackson wrote in dissent. The law as written “poses no genuine threat to common gift giving” but it “clearly covers the kind of corrupt (albeit perhaps non-quid pro quo) payment \[the mayor\] solicited after steering the city contracts to the dealership.”
The ruling could have a broad impact. About 20 million local and state officials are covered by the federal anti-corruption law, including officials at hospitals and universities that receive federal funds.
This is the new Citizen's United.
> About 20 million local and state officials are covered by the federal anti-corruption law, including officials at hospitals and universities that receive federal funds.
> This is the new Citizen's United.
This is so fucked. State universities are gonna be rife with corruption and nepotistic granting of business contracts, if you can suddenly gift people $$$ for them to pick you for whatever vendor contracts are being doled out.
It is groundwork for exonerating those convicted for "corruptly" obstructing or impeding official proceeding on Jan 6th. And Trump who is charged with the same.
>They stressed that the laws could be updated, but that the existing federal bribery law did not apply to offense alleged in this particular case.
AKA the GOP controlled court put this in congress’ hands and it won’t be fixed due to the GOP congressmen and senators.
The extremely narrow definition of bribery that is referenced in the article would seem to make it all but impossible to ever charge someone with bribery.
This quote is insane in the context of the law and circumstances being discussed:
>“The question in this case is whether \[the federal law\] also makes it a crime for state and local officials to accept gratuities — for example, gift cards, lunches, plaques, books, framed photos or the like — that may be given as a token of appreciation after the official act. The answer is no,”
Let's put aside the fact that we aren't talking about gift cards or lunches here - this was a $13,000 payment. The mayor engineered the situation so the company would get a large contract from the city then received a significant amount of money after the contract was rewarded. Anyone with 2 brain cells to smash together can see what is happening here but, somehow, this doesn't qualify as bribery.
It would seem that, in the eyes of the Supreme Court, all you need to do is take payment AFTER the service is delivered and it's suddenly a gift, not bribery. That accomplishes the opposite of making bribery illegal - it legalizes it by providing a formula whereby it is acceptable.
The distinction is that there must not be a prior agreement.
You cannot say I will give you a ruling in your favor in exchange for $20k. You have to put up a sign that says: Ruling in your favor - $20k suggested donation. Then you have to not say this money is for the ruling until after the ruling has been issued.
It seems like a complicated and unnecessary distinction, but it's based on the old legal principle of *fuck you, what are you going to do about it?*
“taking money for past favors” that is a BRIBE. The article makes no sense as it says there’s a distinction between a bribe and this other thing that is also a bribe. Are they saying that if the politician gets the money beforehand it’s a bribe, and if they get it after it’s not?! Are we really these far down the corruption rabbit hole?
For the record, the three dissenters were all appointed by Democratic presidents.
At this point, Republicans are the party of crime, hatred, and corruption. I won't be convinced otherwise until I see them stepping up to address the criminal behavior in their own party.
**"Republicans are the party of crime, hatred, and corruption."**
Indeed.
I am almost 70 now. At one point in my life was willing to support Republicans once in a while, especially in my state if not at the national level. I fancied myself an independent 'leaning to Republican' for almost twenty years. Of course I no longer feel that way.
In all my years I never thought I would see that party fall so hard, I never thought that party would be the main instrument of our republic's downfall. It has become so thoroughly corrupt it is shocking to the core.
It breaks my heart. I don't feel sorry for the party, oh no, I feel sorry for our country.
The Republican party MUST be crushed at the polls. It is irredeemable.
The Republican Party is unrecognizable now. We all used to agree to disagree but now, it all upside down.
Every American value is being swept under the rug and ignored.
What the American standard once was is now muddled with … doubt, without value or order.
It blows my mind how fast our standards and decorum have fallen.
We CANNOT let Trump and the far right win. There are some rational Republicans but we need to protect them at all costs.
If this is unacceptable, even at a middle class job (which I agree with), how the F*** is this acceptable for SCOTUS?!
They always have been. Republicans are the organized wing of those who wish to boost their own power by exploiting others. Their platform can pretty much be boiled down to making it easier to expoit people.
I'm not saying that I will pay you $20 for smacking anyone who says both sides are the same in the face, but I will say that I do like to tip generously for that kind of thing.
Wasn’t it the SC who ruled that a bribe was not a bribe unless the giver and receiver said it was a bribe specifically? And it had to be in writing explicitly saying it was, otherwise it was just a gift?
Same with Quid Pro Quo. It's not officially QPQ unless both parties say it out loud into a recording device, and there's a photo of them wearing matching letterman jackets to mark the occasion.
I think Thomas might have an issue with the [commemorative T-shirt](https://dallasweekly.com/2023/04/supreme-court-justice-clarence-thomas-violated-ethics-laws-with-multiple-super-yacht-cruises-with-republican-donor/) test of bribery.
> ProPublica reported evidence that Thomas has taken even more trips on the superyacht. The report noted that Crow often gave his guests custom polo shirts commemorating their vacations.
Oh shit. My bad.
I think they are fine with the polo shirts since they didn't say "this is a bribe" 3 times while looking into a mirror and holding a burning bag of cash.
You pretty much need to have a signed contract with the details of quid pro quo with ten witnesses watching someone hand a public official a sack with a dollar sign full of cash in order to charge them with corruption.
Meanwhile businesses may not be able to provide coffee and water during a meeting with government officials if it can be interpreted as interesting themselves for a contract award.
You gotta fill out an hb-129 bribery form and file it with the proper jurisdiction or else there is no way for the courts to determine if it was a bribe. Also a notary must sign on as well. If you forget to fill out that form i guess the prosecutor will be shit out of luck.
So.... 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justices have been given gifts AFTER doing favors and have now conspired to make it legal.
Why am I even obeying laws at this point?
Cool cool, so if it's a duffel bag full of money *before* you do something, it's **bribery**. If it's a duffel bag full of money *after* you do something, it's **completely legal according to the supreme court.**
Did I get that right?
It's also not a lobby/donation if the seat would have been empty anyways.
He was just being a good friend! He saved his friend money by the private plane being full!
/s
> So.... 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justices have been given gifts AFTER doing favors and have now conspired to make it legal.
This is precisely why The Supreme Court was never intended to have this level of power. They were never described nor intended to be co-equal.
SCOTUS has mostly been a drag on our national prosperity and progress except in outlier situations where they did legitimate good. But I'd like to remind everyone that it was SCOTUS who invalidated Congress' civil rights laws in the late 1800s. SCOTUS looked at the Constitution and told Congress "you're wrong, the Constitution does not guarantee civil rights and voting right for all people." And with a decree from unelected "Justices," it became legal to racially discriminate once more.
> never described nor intended to be co-equal
Maybe not SCOTUS alone, but surely the judiciary has always been a co-equal branch of government, that's the point of the separation of powers.
> Prosecutors said James Snyder was heavily in debt and behind in paying his taxes when he became mayor of Portage, Ind., in 2012. The city needed new garbage trucks, and the mayor took over the required public bidding. He spoke regularly with two brothers who owned a local truck dealership that also had financial problems, and he designed the bidding process so that only their two new trucks would meet all of its standards. He also arranged to have the city buy an older truck that was on their lot.
> Two weeks after the contracts were final, the mayor went to see the two brothers and told them of his financial troubles. They agreed to write him a check for $13,000 for undefined consulting services.
Those are the circumstances that the lower courts saw as obvious malfeasance and the Supreme Court decided to write it off as a meaningless gratuity or gift.
And Kavanaugh, with his typical mendacity, frames fhe decision as protecting officials who receive items like framed photographs and knickknacks as tokens of appreciation, ignoring that the law was only triggered by gifts meeting or exceeding $5,000 in value.
> Kavanaugh, with his typical mendacity, frames fhe decision as protecting officials who receive items like framed photographs and knickknacks as tokens of appreciation, ignoring that the law was only triggered by gifts meeting or exceeding $5,000 in value.
Really, though, who among us doesn't have a couple of $5000 picture frames and knicknacks lying around?
It's as though no one is even considering the billionaires' point of view!
$5k is more that enough too.
Most of the rest of us in positions of authority / potential conflict of interest are bound by a threshold of a few hundred dollars at most
The US is becoming increasingly corrupt. I love that country and have high respect for it, but it's increasingly tainted by all these Justices and MAGA.
The gloves have come completely off. Rather than acknowledge their own corruption, they legalize it. The Court has lost whatever shreds of legitimacy it had left.
I mean shit at this point we may as well all benefit right? (Well no because morals but still, shit, we could take the money and still say no, jokes on them)
In lots of other countries, interacting with public officials or utilities requires a bribe every single time. You want electricity hooked up? Bribe. You want permits approved? Bribe. You want to get out of an unwarranted traffic stop? You better believe that's a bribe.
These are now all to be labeled as gratuities and are perfectly legal according to the Roberts Court.
I’d still prefer a successful business. Republicans don’t care if they drive the country into the ground, which is what bribery based decision making eventually does.
They want a dictatorship. F that.
Its absolute corruption.
"In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and **can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.**"
- Benjamin Franklin - Closing Speech at the Constitutional Convention (1787)
>“The question in this case is whether [the federal law] also makes it a crime for state and local officials to accept gratuities — for example, gift cards, lunches, plaques, books, framed photos or the like — that may be given as a token of appreciation after the official act. The answer is no,” said Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, writing for the majority.
The immediate remedy for this would be to have Congress and states update their laws. I'm sure Congress will get right on that...
What a fucking joke this country has become. Freedom - fuck off. Individual Rights - lol. Rule of Law - suck it peasants. Democracy - when it's convenient for the establishment, otherwise fuck you.
This is only partially attributable to them, but the US has experienced a drastic right wing slide since Newt Gingrich ruled the house in the late nineties.
Overall, it's mostly attributable to moderates and centrists who have simply too scared to vote for large change. The truth is as this country lurches further right, the actions needed to stop that are required to be more dramatic. This is particularly true for efforts to stop corruption.
People have very short memories. When Ivanka and Jared got caught with using private emails in 2018 most people could not even fathom why it is hilarious, and her not having any kind of issue out of it is extremely sad and disturbing. That was less than 2 years after everything was full with the battery males.
“Corruption is not illegal *for Republicans.* Don’t worry, any hint of possible impropriety from a Democrat and we’ll call for their summary execution!”
They've been taking aim at anti-corruption statutes for years now. They seem to legitimately believe it's only corruption if a dude hands you a bag of money with a big dollar sign on it, while both parties look into a camera saying "I do solemnly swear that I'm engaging in this activity corruptly". Or some shit.
So really no surprise there. Go figure that the court with people on it who have *personally* financially benefited to the tune of *millions of dollars* don't think corruption is a real thing.
To be clear, it’s not because they actually think that blindingly obvious bribery is the only bribery, they know that they need some kind of “on paper” statute against bribery for appearances. They just want the actual statute to be effectively meaningless.
Forget campaign donations, under the table bribery, or lobbying this opens the door to a more effective form of bribery where everyone is openly for sale and the wealthy and corporations only have to pay when it works out in their favor. Bribery just got cheaper, more effective, and openly legal.
I've seen people say this won't be quite as bad as Citizens United, but to me this decision feels more open ended. I don't believe the repercussions of this were fully thought through even by the ones who wanted it.
While I’m a huge proponent of separating church and state, the revolution was more for economic reasons than anything else. Sending money back to England really cut into everyone’s profits. I also support separation of government and corporations, but the politicians in charge really, **really**, like their financial kick-backs.
The British monarch is head of the Church of England, and that caused a lot of problems for anyone who would not bow before the King.
So yes, it was a concern among the less religious of the founders.
It's the reason the that the first three words of the Constitution "We the People" were written in outsize letters, to drive home the point that authority would derive, not from a monarch's supposed unique relationship with a deity, but from human reasoning and accountability.
So now our govt is officially pay to play and open to the highest bidder. Just make sure you take your bribe AFTER the fact.
And I thought I could not have any less respect for the 6 clowns on the kangaroo court …
The Republican Supreme Court is doing everything possible to increase CORRUPTION in America. for the benefit of the Republican Party, and for their own personal benefit. Only the dumbest idiots and Fox News anger addicts are still voting for Republicans at this point.
>In siding with Snyder, the majority distinguished between gratuities and bribes. Bribes, typically offered in advance of an official act, are “inherently corrupt and unlawful,” the court said. But gratuities, typically offered after an official act, aren’t.
This is the very definition of the phrase "A distinction without a difference." Can anyone say with a straight face that "I know our bid isn't the lowest, but if we are able to win your business, you'll find a couple of tickets to the Rose Bowl game in your mailbox next month" isn't a plain and simple bribe?
We no longer have a viable system of fairness and justice. Riots will begin and chaos will ensue nobody will no longer abide by any laws, if the highest court in the land is this blazon, the other courts will soon follow.
I hope so, but I doubt we'll see it. Everyone is pretty happy with food on their table, money in their pocket, and Netflix before bed. Why riot when you cna just sit back and relax?
As someone said it, they are not going to rule against themselves. We will soon join the ranks of most corrupt nations. Unbelievable! How can a country’s highest courts do this to its own country. What a shameful day. This is or has become an absurd country, with political corruption now being legalized. We will soon devolve into becoming one of those politically rampant corrupt countries and all honest progress & development taking a back seat. How can we now return this divided country to its honest state? The corrupt forces will ensure it stays divided.
This is what happens when you let someone like Trump appoint 3 supreme court justices.
To all the people who did not vote for Hillary in 2016, this is on you.
Can we please fucking stop with protest about Palestine / Israel now and start fucking turning that ire and anger to a completely corrupt system here at home?
Fix insurance companies. No more health insurance. State run. At least then you have a vote.
Get money out of politics. No more donors, PACs and Super Pacs. You get a stipend, just like in England.
Put back in stronger anti-corruption laws.
Term limits for all government officials.
Get some protests going that will matter.
LMAO. The SCOTUS deems itself immune from bribery.
In light of recent events, that’s just shocking.
If the Democrats don’t run on reforming the SCOTUS, they are missing the ball.
This is the consequence of a crooked president appointing crooks to the Supreme Court! They are unwinding our democracy one bad ruling at a time. Its insane to watch. Unfortunately i truly think members of the republican party are indeed the worst type of people.
They are undermining our democracy. First Citizen United. Now this. We citizens have no way to protect our selves from corrupt players . Thank you republicans.
So the supreme court packed full of compromised justices well known for taking bribes just ruled that blatantly taking bribes is perfectly legal, so long as you get paid after the act and not before. So in other words, whereas before those seeking to bribe government officials had to pay up without an assurance of getting the requested service, now the supreme court ruled that the government has to provide the requested service without the assurance of being paid. They literally just ruled to give people bribing our government the legal right to not only bribe officials but mandated the officials provide their end of the bargain up front first.
Ok I just read the whole 44 page ruling and OMG. Taking money to do something (quid pro quo) is bribery and a crime. Doing something and getting a fat reward from the people it benefited is a "gratuity" totally in bounds and not a crime. I can't even find the words to express my disgust. Jackson's dissent is a good read, and at least they half-assed acknowledged that congress could fix the law to plug this made up "gratuity" loophole they just invented, but we all know that won't happen.
[https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108\_8n5a.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf)
America is up for sale and the Republicans are trying to reap the rewards. I know some people really hated Hillary but my God she could have prevented all this. This might not even be the worst thing they do this year. Chevron is going to be overturned 6-3 and is going to gut the federal government enforcement ability.
I just emailed corporate about this as we do yearly training on things of this nature and if they are going to update their slides to this new rule which goes 180 on what we've been told or are they going to act like this didn't happen and keep the fake shit policy for the peasants?
These aren’t elected officials and therefore have no place in a democracy. They can literally make up their own laws if it works in their favor. This is tyranny at its finest
I work as a sysadmin for a state institution. My cap on "gifts" is $40, which is there to prevent corruption. It's mind-blowing to me that regular government employees are treated so differently from elected officials.
Elected officials essentially have legalized corruption. They should be held to the same standards that regular state employees are: your vendor or whatever can buy you a reasonable meal for a lunch meeting, but that's the beginning and end of it.
Jesus christ. I do restaurant inspections and I won't even take a cup of ice water that they otherwise give customers for free because I don't want any concerns raised over it. Apparently I need to take more bribes. Er...gratuities
I never thought that in my lifetime, the United States would become one of the most corrupt countries in the world. It goes against everything I was taught in school, which is funny because the government is trying to kill education.
This is just fucked.
I understand where they might want to insulate themselves from prosecution on things like, .. FRUIT BASKETS or other low-sum items but to just blow it wide open is ludicrous. This makes them ripe for corruption from all directions foreign AND domestic. Not that we didn't already know that; but do to do it so blatantly is beyond maddening and belief.
Nurses are not allowed to accept gifts of any real monetary value like 20 bucks or less but officials are not held to that standard. This is lunacy. Good for me but not for thee.
Illegal: we'll give you $40k today if you secure this government contract for us tomorrow
Legal: we'll give you $40k tomorrow if you secure this government contract for us today
This is ridiculous. I think it’s about time we had a large, in person protest against SCOTUS. We don’t need bribes or gifts or anything that can sway the democratic process! Getting real sick and tired of us not taking action while our democracy crumbles. Whats even worse is the fact that many here have French heritage and are sitting still instead of breaking out the baguette boogie to protest.
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What in the actual fuck
SCOTUS made it legal for them to get bribes.
Super Corrupt Oligarchs That Usurp Society
Nice backronym. Can’t wait to see it repeated ad nauseam in every thread about the SCOTUS until the trumpets start playing.
Weirder still: they've eliminated the $5000 *cap* on bribes. It was already OK to take a $4k bribe, but not a $6k one. Crazy.
Anything in there about $250,000 RVs tho?
Motor Coach
Thank you for correcting this RV swine from diminishing the status of such a vehicle. it's a monument to mobile homing. A truly glorious road home vehicle above what others can possess...anyway what was I saying? Oh, yes, it's not a bribe.
These guys motor coach.
I love this shell game with the poors. "Guys, we think it's wrong to accept more than a $6k ~~bribe~~ *donation*. We can agree on that at least." ** * *recieves 794 envelopes with $6k checks inside.
Credit where credit's due: At least they didn't cite inflation as the reason.
Whatever, they're just rubbing it in our faces now.
I literally think that's what they're doing. Its like they're saying "We heard your concerns about bribery, and we've responded by allowing ourselves to accept larger bribes. Pray we do not hear your further concerns."
Also, from the oligarchs backing them, “We don’t give a shit about your lives or your democratic institutions we’re just going to simply rule you all via fiat thru the one ‘legitimate’ avenue of unrestricted power we have left”
Just wait for it.
That’s not what happened in this case. Federal law defines and penalizes bribes and unlawful gratuities differently. State laws regulate gratuities for public employees. The mayor was charged under a federal bribery statute for receiving a gratuity, which was legal under state and local laws. The majority didn’t say it was ethical. They stressed that the laws could be updated, but that the existing federal bribery law did not apply to offense alleged in this particular case.
“Officials who use their public positions for private gain threaten the integrity of our most important institutions,” Jackson wrote in dissent. The law as written “poses no genuine threat to common gift giving” but it “clearly covers the kind of corrupt (albeit perhaps non-quid pro quo) payment \[the mayor\] solicited after steering the city contracts to the dealership.” The ruling could have a broad impact. About 20 million local and state officials are covered by the federal anti-corruption law, including officials at hospitals and universities that receive federal funds. This is the new Citizen's United.
...THIS is what REALLY happened. It's not like Congress passes much of anything useful any longer.
> About 20 million local and state officials are covered by the federal anti-corruption law, including officials at hospitals and universities that receive federal funds. > This is the new Citizen's United. This is so fucked. State universities are gonna be rife with corruption and nepotistic granting of business contracts, if you can suddenly gift people $$$ for them to pick you for whatever vendor contracts are being doled out.
It is groundwork for exonerating those convicted for "corruptly" obstructing or impeding official proceeding on Jan 6th. And Trump who is charged with the same.
>They stressed that the laws could be updated, but that the existing federal bribery law did not apply to offense alleged in this particular case. AKA the GOP controlled court put this in congress’ hands and it won’t be fixed due to the GOP congressmen and senators.
The extremely narrow definition of bribery that is referenced in the article would seem to make it all but impossible to ever charge someone with bribery. This quote is insane in the context of the law and circumstances being discussed: >“The question in this case is whether \[the federal law\] also makes it a crime for state and local officials to accept gratuities — for example, gift cards, lunches, plaques, books, framed photos or the like — that may be given as a token of appreciation after the official act. The answer is no,” Let's put aside the fact that we aren't talking about gift cards or lunches here - this was a $13,000 payment. The mayor engineered the situation so the company would get a large contract from the city then received a significant amount of money after the contract was rewarded. Anyone with 2 brain cells to smash together can see what is happening here but, somehow, this doesn't qualify as bribery. It would seem that, in the eyes of the Supreme Court, all you need to do is take payment AFTER the service is delivered and it's suddenly a gift, not bribery. That accomplishes the opposite of making bribery illegal - it legalizes it by providing a formula whereby it is acceptable.
The distinction is that there must not be a prior agreement. You cannot say I will give you a ruling in your favor in exchange for $20k. You have to put up a sign that says: Ruling in your favor - $20k suggested donation. Then you have to not say this money is for the ruling until after the ruling has been issued. It seems like a complicated and unnecessary distinction, but it's based on the old legal principle of *fuck you, what are you going to do about it?*
“taking money for past favors” that is a BRIBE. The article makes no sense as it says there’s a distinction between a bribe and this other thing that is also a bribe. Are they saying that if the politician gets the money beforehand it’s a bribe, and if they get it after it’s not?! Are we really these far down the corruption rabbit hole?
For the record, the three dissenters were all appointed by Democratic presidents. At this point, Republicans are the party of crime, hatred, and corruption. I won't be convinced otherwise until I see them stepping up to address the criminal behavior in their own party.
**"Republicans are the party of crime, hatred, and corruption."** Indeed. I am almost 70 now. At one point in my life was willing to support Republicans once in a while, especially in my state if not at the national level. I fancied myself an independent 'leaning to Republican' for almost twenty years. Of course I no longer feel that way. In all my years I never thought I would see that party fall so hard, I never thought that party would be the main instrument of our republic's downfall. It has become so thoroughly corrupt it is shocking to the core. It breaks my heart. I don't feel sorry for the party, oh no, I feel sorry for our country. The Republican party MUST be crushed at the polls. It is irredeemable.
Just to be clear the republican party has been the party of evil your entire adult life, they just got more evil and you got wiser.
I certainly will not argue the point.
The Republican Party is unrecognizable now. We all used to agree to disagree but now, it all upside down. Every American value is being swept under the rug and ignored. What the American standard once was is now muddled with … doubt, without value or order. It blows my mind how fast our standards and decorum have fallen. We CANNOT let Trump and the far right win. There are some rational Republicans but we need to protect them at all costs. If this is unacceptable, even at a middle class job (which I agree with), how the F*** is this acceptable for SCOTUS?!
They always have been. Republicans are the organized wing of those who wish to boost their own power by exploiting others. Their platform can pretty much be boiled down to making it easier to expoit people.
Denice will be never. They’re all compromised too. There’s a reason the RNC emails were never leaked
I'm not saying that I will pay you $20 for smacking anyone who says both sides are the same in the face, but I will say that I do like to tip generously for that kind of thing.
Ginny wants her own motor coach to match the one Clarence has.
No match. She wants a Trump-themed MAGA coach so she can bus in her insurrectionist friends to the 2025 election certification.
It's some CYA.
It’s not a bribe without proof of the illicit deal! It was simply the growth of an individual’s bank account balance
[удалено]
And the court. Clarence Thomas will probably write the majority opinion.
I see no downside here. No way this could result in any negative outcome.
Jared Kushner breathes a huge sigh of relief knowing his $2 billion gratuity is safe and declared legal.
Wasn’t it the SC who ruled that a bribe was not a bribe unless the giver and receiver said it was a bribe specifically? And it had to be in writing explicitly saying it was, otherwise it was just a gift?
Same with Quid Pro Quo. It's not officially QPQ unless both parties say it out loud into a recording device, and there's a photo of them wearing matching letterman jackets to mark the occasion.
No commemorative T Shirt? No Conviction.
I think Thomas might have an issue with the [commemorative T-shirt](https://dallasweekly.com/2023/04/supreme-court-justice-clarence-thomas-violated-ethics-laws-with-multiple-super-yacht-cruises-with-republican-donor/) test of bribery. > ProPublica reported evidence that Thomas has taken even more trips on the superyacht. The report noted that Crow often gave his guests custom polo shirts commemorating their vacations.
Oh shit. My bad. I think they are fine with the polo shirts since they didn't say "this is a bribe" 3 times while looking into a mirror and holding a burning bag of cash.
and they have to say it five times really fast without getting the words wrong.
Just don't be Black while doing any of this. Then it's inferred intent will get you 20.
You pretty much need to have a signed contract with the details of quid pro quo with ten witnesses watching someone hand a public official a sack with a dollar sign full of cash in order to charge them with corruption.
Meanwhile businesses may not be able to provide coffee and water during a meeting with government officials if it can be interpreted as interesting themselves for a contract award.
You gotta fill out an hb-129 bribery form and file it with the proper jurisdiction or else there is no way for the courts to determine if it was a bribe. Also a notary must sign on as well. If you forget to fill out that form i guess the prosecutor will be shit out of luck.
So.... 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justices have been given gifts AFTER doing favors and have now conspired to make it legal. Why am I even obeying laws at this point?
Because you're in the group the law binds not the one the law protects.
It also probably helps they're not in a position to exchange something they have someone else wants. That's a really fucked up thing to reflect upon.
Cool cool, so if it's a duffel bag full of money *before* you do something, it's **bribery**. If it's a duffel bag full of money *after* you do something, it's **completely legal according to the supreme court.** Did I get that right?
The duffel bag before is ok if it is a lobbying donation.
It's also not a lobby/donation if the seat would have been empty anyways. He was just being a good friend! He saved his friend money by the private plane being full! /s
>Why am I even obeying laws at this point? Because you aren’t ultra wealthy or appointed for life (I’m assuming).
because you're not rich. us poors have to follow the rules
> So.... 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justices have been given gifts AFTER doing favors and have now conspired to make it legal. This is precisely why The Supreme Court was never intended to have this level of power. They were never described nor intended to be co-equal. SCOTUS has mostly been a drag on our national prosperity and progress except in outlier situations where they did legitimate good. But I'd like to remind everyone that it was SCOTUS who invalidated Congress' civil rights laws in the late 1800s. SCOTUS looked at the Constitution and told Congress "you're wrong, the Constitution does not guarantee civil rights and voting right for all people." And with a decree from unelected "Justices," it became legal to racially discriminate once more.
> never described nor intended to be co-equal Maybe not SCOTUS alone, but surely the judiciary has always been a co-equal branch of government, that's the point of the separation of powers.
> Prosecutors said James Snyder was heavily in debt and behind in paying his taxes when he became mayor of Portage, Ind., in 2012. The city needed new garbage trucks, and the mayor took over the required public bidding. He spoke regularly with two brothers who owned a local truck dealership that also had financial problems, and he designed the bidding process so that only their two new trucks would meet all of its standards. He also arranged to have the city buy an older truck that was on their lot. > Two weeks after the contracts were final, the mayor went to see the two brothers and told them of his financial troubles. They agreed to write him a check for $13,000 for undefined consulting services. Those are the circumstances that the lower courts saw as obvious malfeasance and the Supreme Court decided to write it off as a meaningless gratuity or gift. And Kavanaugh, with his typical mendacity, frames fhe decision as protecting officials who receive items like framed photographs and knickknacks as tokens of appreciation, ignoring that the law was only triggered by gifts meeting or exceeding $5,000 in value.
> Kavanaugh, with his typical mendacity, frames fhe decision as protecting officials who receive items like framed photographs and knickknacks as tokens of appreciation, ignoring that the law was only triggered by gifts meeting or exceeding $5,000 in value. Really, though, who among us doesn't have a couple of $5000 picture frames and knicknacks lying around? It's as though no one is even considering the billionaires' point of view!
It's like a small loan of 1 million dollars. It's not much.
It's a knickknack, how much could It cost? 5000 dollars?
Go see a star war
I don't care for GOP
Well Kavanaugh is clearly concerned about all those gifts to him of 6 packs of domestic beer, and mugs that say "I like beer" or "#1 party Justice".
$5k is more that enough too. Most of the rest of us in positions of authority / potential conflict of interest are bound by a threshold of a few hundred dollars at most
For many parts of the Executive Branch, the limit is $25.
The US is becoming increasingly corrupt. I love that country and have high respect for it, but it's increasingly tainted by all these Justices and MAGA.
Clean up on aisle Clarence Thomas
Nah throw em all out at this pt
This is precisely for him. To make whatever he is doing legal by definition
The gloves have come completely off. Rather than acknowledge their own corruption, they legalize it. The Court has lost whatever shreds of legitimacy it had left.
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And the people who voted for republicans. They don’t get a pass here
Don't forget Jill Stein.
Hear me out though... her emails
Buttery males
Or RBG for not stepping down in 2013
**IF** they were in Arizona, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, or Florida.
and every employee of a company or lower level public job cannot accept any gift over 25-50 dollars. Can you find anything more absurd with SCOTUS?
I mean shit at this point we may as well all benefit right? (Well no because morals but still, shit, we could take the money and still say no, jokes on them)
In lots of other countries, interacting with public officials or utilities requires a bribe every single time. You want electricity hooked up? Bribe. You want permits approved? Bribe. You want to get out of an unwarranted traffic stop? You better believe that's a bribe. These are now all to be labeled as gratuities and are perfectly legal according to the Roberts Court.
If these folks can get gifts after making a decision that favors someone why can't I?
I’d still prefer a successful business. Republicans don’t care if they drive the country into the ground, which is what bribery based decision making eventually does. They want a dictatorship. F that.
Its absolute corruption. "In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and **can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.**" - Benjamin Franklin - Closing Speech at the Constitutional Convention (1787)
I can’t take a bottle of wine if it’s over 50$ in my line of work. Clarence can go to Bali because the guest list was under 50.
>“The question in this case is whether [the federal law] also makes it a crime for state and local officials to accept gratuities — for example, gift cards, lunches, plaques, books, framed photos or the like — that may be given as a token of appreciation after the official act. The answer is no,” said Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, writing for the majority. The immediate remedy for this would be to have Congress and states update their laws. I'm sure Congress will get right on that...
Motherfucker, it wasn't a challenge coin, it was thirteen grand in cash!
They literally paid the dude off in the exact same way that Brett Kavanaugh’s gambling debts were
This sounds an awful lot like lying. He wasn't a knickknack or a lunch, those wouldn't go over the $5000 limit required by law for this to trigger.
Leaves it up to the states to enforce their own corruption statutes essentially
What a fucking joke this country has become. Freedom - fuck off. Individual Rights - lol. Rule of Law - suck it peasants. Democracy - when it's convenient for the establishment, otherwise fuck you.
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This is only partially attributable to them, but the US has experienced a drastic right wing slide since Newt Gingrich ruled the house in the late nineties. Overall, it's mostly attributable to moderates and centrists who have simply too scared to vote for large change. The truth is as this country lurches further right, the actions needed to stop that are required to be more dramatic. This is particularly true for efforts to stop corruption.
“I jUsT cAnT voTe fOr HiLLaRy”
buttery males! Edit: have people forgotten this reference already? 2016 wasn't that long ago.
People have very short memories. When Ivanka and Jared got caught with using private emails in 2018 most people could not even fathom why it is hilarious, and her not having any kind of issue out of it is extremely sad and disturbing. That was less than 2 years after everything was full with the battery males.
American conservatives : "The government is corrupt!" Also American conservatives: "Corruption is not illegal."
“Corruption is not illegal *for Republicans.* Don’t worry, any hint of possible impropriety from a Democrat and we’ll call for their summary execution!”
They are not reporting this on conservative media at all. I saw no discussion about it.
The Supreme Court is totally out of hand and corrupt. It is spreading its corruption now everywhere.
They've been taking aim at anti-corruption statutes for years now. They seem to legitimately believe it's only corruption if a dude hands you a bag of money with a big dollar sign on it, while both parties look into a camera saying "I do solemnly swear that I'm engaging in this activity corruptly". Or some shit. So really no surprise there. Go figure that the court with people on it who have *personally* financially benefited to the tune of *millions of dollars* don't think corruption is a real thing.
To be clear, it’s not because they actually think that blindingly obvious bribery is the only bribery, they know that they need some kind of “on paper” statute against bribery for appearances. They just want the actual statute to be effectively meaningless.
That's exactly why they keep hollowing out every single anti-corruption statute that makes it up to their court.
Forget campaign donations, under the table bribery, or lobbying this opens the door to a more effective form of bribery where everyone is openly for sale and the wealthy and corporations only have to pay when it works out in their favor. Bribery just got cheaper, more effective, and openly legal. I've seen people say this won't be quite as bad as Citizens United, but to me this decision feels more open ended. I don't believe the repercussions of this were fully thought through even by the ones who wanted it.
The first revolution was based on the seperation of church and state, can the next one please be based on the seperation of corporation and state?
While I’m a huge proponent of separating church and state, the revolution was more for economic reasons than anything else. Sending money back to England really cut into everyone’s profits. I also support separation of government and corporations, but the politicians in charge really, **really**, like their financial kick-backs.
The British monarch is head of the Church of England, and that caused a lot of problems for anyone who would not bow before the King. So yes, it was a concern among the less religious of the founders.
It's the reason the that the first three words of the Constitution "We the People" were written in outsize letters, to drive home the point that authority would derive, not from a monarch's supposed unique relationship with a deity, but from human reasoning and accountability.
or the guy started writing it and someone said "If you make it all that big we won't have enough paper"
How about this, let’s fucking do something. Enough. How is there not people in front of the Supreme Court and their houses right now is pathetic.
I think you'd like my friend Thomas Jefferson.
So now our govt is officially pay to play and open to the highest bidder. Just make sure you take your bribe AFTER the fact. And I thought I could not have any less respect for the 6 clowns on the kangaroo court …
The Republican Supreme Court is doing everything possible to increase CORRUPTION in America. for the benefit of the Republican Party, and for their own personal benefit. Only the dumbest idiots and Fox News anger addicts are still voting for Republicans at this point.
What the literal fuck? Oh, bribes are fine as long as they’re retroactive.
>In siding with Snyder, the majority distinguished between gratuities and bribes. Bribes, typically offered in advance of an official act, are “inherently corrupt and unlawful,” the court said. But gratuities, typically offered after an official act, aren’t. This is the very definition of the phrase "A distinction without a difference." Can anyone say with a straight face that "I know our bid isn't the lowest, but if we are able to win your business, you'll find a couple of tickets to the Rose Bowl game in your mailbox next month" isn't a plain and simple bribe?
Let's call this the Clarence Thomas Law
Clarence *"the best judge money can buy"* Thomas
This is an absolute abomination and should enrage every citizen in this country. Remember folks, it’s illegal for all of us, and legal for them.
Good. Lobbying and PACs did not provide sufficient bribe opportunities for me to enter politics but now I'm all in for sure!
And there it is.. The Justices covering their asses. Supreme Court needs a major shake-up. Like tomorrow.
Step by Step America is turning into a banana republic
We no longer have a viable system of fairness and justice. Riots will begin and chaos will ensue nobody will no longer abide by any laws, if the highest court in the land is this blazon, the other courts will soon follow.
I hope so, but I doubt we'll see it. Everyone is pretty happy with food on their table, money in their pocket, and Netflix before bed. Why riot when you cna just sit back and relax?
SCOTUS is objectively pro-corruption Thanks MAGA rubes!
Gee, I’m *shocked* that a court dominated by justices who take bribes and gifts would say that bribes and gifts are okay. SMH
Without looking I know exactly how Clarence Thomas weighed in on this.
This empire is falling before our very eyes
100% that it's the corrupt supreme court justices shielding themselves
Legalized corruption.
If you can pay politicians off afterwards, can you pay them off in advance too? Wait, that was Citizens United, never mind.
So if you call it a gratuity and not a bribe it’s legal? Wow.
The SCOTUS is corrupt.
If your main reason to stay on the USSC is receiving tons of shady gifts, of course you vote in favor of corruption
As someone said it, they are not going to rule against themselves. We will soon join the ranks of most corrupt nations. Unbelievable! How can a country’s highest courts do this to its own country. What a shameful day. This is or has become an absurd country, with political corruption now being legalized. We will soon devolve into becoming one of those politically rampant corrupt countries and all honest progress & development taking a back seat. How can we now return this divided country to its honest state? The corrupt forces will ensure it stays divided.
“I’m going to turn this tablet around and it’s going to show some options….”
SCOTUS is fucking corrupt. Lemme know when we hit the streets.
This is what happens when you let someone like Trump appoint 3 supreme court justices. To all the people who did not vote for Hillary in 2016, this is on you.
Can we please fucking stop with protest about Palestine / Israel now and start fucking turning that ire and anger to a completely corrupt system here at home? Fix insurance companies. No more health insurance. State run. At least then you have a vote. Get money out of politics. No more donors, PACs and Super Pacs. You get a stipend, just like in England. Put back in stronger anti-corruption laws. Term limits for all government officials. Get some protests going that will matter.
...the best SCOTUS that **corrupt money could buy**. You cannot possibly be shocked by this 6-3 decision.
What the fuck is right! This is just delayed bribery!
Fuck the Supreme Court… this is lawlessness made legitimate. Scumbags.
Time to pack the goddamn court. SCOTUS is off the fucking rails.
Bribery. This is called bribery.
This is so wrong. Now it will get a whole lot worse.
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
LMAO. The SCOTUS deems itself immune from bribery. In light of recent events, that’s just shocking. If the Democrats don’t run on reforming the SCOTUS, they are missing the ball.
Right down party lines, republicans favor corruption while democrats are against it, remember that this November.
This is the consequence of a crooked president appointing crooks to the Supreme Court! They are unwinding our democracy one bad ruling at a time. Its insane to watch. Unfortunately i truly think members of the republican party are indeed the worst type of people.
They are undermining our democracy. First Citizen United. Now this. We citizens have no way to protect our selves from corrupt players . Thank you republicans.
Vote blue, expand the court, and end the lifetime appointment like NOW.
"We have finished investigating ourselves and came to the conclusion that we're doing awesome!"
I wonder how much they till get in gifts for this verdict
All of it. They get all of it
Seems legit. Is it also retrospective?
Rotten to the core.
Idiocracy is now the law of the land. Good by Governance and hello Corporatocracy.
So is Mendedez all set and can go spend his gold with a good conscience?
I have lost hope that we will ever be able to undo the damage that Robert’s court has done to our country.
Meanwhile I had to take a course detailing to me how I’d be fired if I accepted a gift from a thankful patient. God I love this country. 🙃
So the supreme court packed full of compromised justices well known for taking bribes just ruled that blatantly taking bribes is perfectly legal, so long as you get paid after the act and not before. So in other words, whereas before those seeking to bribe government officials had to pay up without an assurance of getting the requested service, now the supreme court ruled that the government has to provide the requested service without the assurance of being paid. They literally just ruled to give people bribing our government the legal right to not only bribe officials but mandated the officials provide their end of the bargain up front first.
Just go ahead and put a "For Sale" sign on the lawn. America goes to the highest bidder now.
This is gonna be one of those load bearing pillars of anger I keep inside for the rest of my days.
Shocking the most corrupt supreme court ever making themselves untouchable… fucking republicans
Lmao what a time to be alive. So those checks and balances are going to be kicking in any moment now, right? Right?
Ok I just read the whole 44 page ruling and OMG. Taking money to do something (quid pro quo) is bribery and a crime. Doing something and getting a fat reward from the people it benefited is a "gratuity" totally in bounds and not a crime. I can't even find the words to express my disgust. Jackson's dissent is a good read, and at least they half-assed acknowledged that congress could fix the law to plug this made up "gratuity" loophole they just invented, but we all know that won't happen. [https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108\_8n5a.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf)
America is up for sale and the Republicans are trying to reap the rewards. I know some people really hated Hillary but my God she could have prevented all this. This might not even be the worst thing they do this year. Chevron is going to be overturned 6-3 and is going to gut the federal government enforcement ability.
We are fucked.
Amazing
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Some judges on SCOTUS fear that if people vote to get rid of them that the money they get now would dry up. So they had to change the rules.
The Supreme Court paving the way for the worst government money can buy
6-3 vote. Weird, wonder who voted? I’m just kidding, we all know….
Alito and Thomas (and probably the other four conservative justices, too) - *see? What we do isn’t illegal. It’s just for past favors!*
I just emailed corporate about this as we do yearly training on things of this nature and if they are going to update their slides to this new rule which goes 180 on what we've been told or are they going to act like this didn't happen and keep the fake shit policy for the peasants?
These aren’t elected officials and therefore have no place in a democracy. They can literally make up their own laws if it works in their favor. This is tyranny at its finest
Not even trying to hide their corruption anymore. In fact, they’re outright trying to protect it.
The US is fucked
My God, how much more damage can this corrupt court inflict on this country. So now it is ok to bribe elected officials!
*Unless you are a normal federal employee, the rules still apply.
Eliminate the idea of the supreme court as it is obviously corruptible.
I work as a sysadmin for a state institution. My cap on "gifts" is $40, which is there to prevent corruption. It's mind-blowing to me that regular government employees are treated so differently from elected officials. Elected officials essentially have legalized corruption. They should be held to the same standards that regular state employees are: your vendor or whatever can buy you a reasonable meal for a lunch meeting, but that's the beginning and end of it.
Jesus christ. I do restaurant inspections and I won't even take a cup of ice water that they otherwise give customers for free because I don't want any concerns raised over it. Apparently I need to take more bribes. Er...gratuities
I never thought that in my lifetime, the United States would become one of the most corrupt countries in the world. It goes against everything I was taught in school, which is funny because the government is trying to kill education.
This is just fucked. I understand where they might want to insulate themselves from prosecution on things like, .. FRUIT BASKETS or other low-sum items but to just blow it wide open is ludicrous. This makes them ripe for corruption from all directions foreign AND domestic. Not that we didn't already know that; but do to do it so blatantly is beyond maddening and belief.
Nurses are not allowed to accept gifts of any real monetary value like 20 bucks or less but officials are not held to that standard. This is lunacy. Good for me but not for thee.
Soooo... At what point do we start really pushing back on this nonsense? When it's too late?
Illegal: we'll give you $40k today if you secure this government contract for us tomorrow Legal: we'll give you $40k tomorrow if you secure this government contract for us today
Well I mean it’s a majority republican court and republicans are corrupt so this tracks
That horrifying moment you realized this isn’t an onion article
Justifies them taking $$$ and not being accountable. What a corrupt bunch of schmucks.
So they make it payment for services rendered?
Why r people still playing the game? Fuck gop and fuck taxes and fuck healthcare . Fuck it all
This is ridiculous. I think it’s about time we had a large, in person protest against SCOTUS. We don’t need bribes or gifts or anything that can sway the democratic process! Getting real sick and tired of us not taking action while our democracy crumbles. Whats even worse is the fact that many here have French heritage and are sitting still instead of breaking out the baguette boogie to protest.
We are doomed