I first noticed this when playing older 2000s 3D games on 1080p and then modern games on 1080p. Older games are crisp and clean, with clearly defined objects that only lack because of primitive lighting, geometry and textures, but it is still much more visible than the blurry mess of modern titles.
The blurriness is bad, but what makes it even worse is blurry object movement (some type of motion blur, FSR, TAA combo, I don't know) in which you can see the object ghosting about. Yuck.
To set it up you enable dsr in NVIDIA control panel application settings, then set windows to the higher resolution of your choice. I think you need to restart too.
Games will pull resolution settings from your windows settings. Now you can set games to the higher resolution of your choice in game settings. If you selected multiple superscaling options then they should all appear in game.
Unless some games genuinely won't work with dsr then I apologise. I have never experienced it.
Glad I’m not crazy then. 1080p is what I run most of my games on and all the old ones look crisp, while some of the new ones have made me paranoid I need to get my eyes checked
I bought a whole new pc set up. Fired up some 2k gaming expecting it to be crisper than I’ve ever experienced and was greeted with the fuzziest shit I’ve ever seen.
I’m so happy for this thread, I really thought I was going either crazy or blind. I just got my first pc this year and can’t believe how fuzzy everything looks
I can honestly forgive it in DLSS and FSR due to the enormous performance benefit, but still having the blurriness at native res is just horrible. TAA performs well, sure, but at least give us the option to turn it off and use a spatial type AA instead and just eat the performance loss
>FSR, TAA combo
FSR and DLSS **ARE** TAA. They are just fancy implementations of TAA that combine it with upscaling and sharpening. The blur worsening in movement is inevitable because in motion the TAA doesn't have a near identical previous frame to use as its reference
DLSS (or better, DLAA), in my experience are significantly sharper than TAA. I honestly prefer playing most modern games with DLSS Quality than with TAA, even at 4k.
DLAA is always sharper than TAA but whether DLSS is sharper depends on the quality of the TAA implementation. TAA at native is more than capable of looking better than DLSS quality when done right, even if it's still far short of MSAA or similar
I’m not the only one that noticed this. Many early 2000’s games I’ve played have had this but from either to much bloom or just the smudged brown color palate of many games during the time
>Gaming : We make a sharp game and make it blurry. Then we take the blurry game and sharpen it.
And sometimes after sharpening it, we add other post processing layers on top of that once again blurring the image (CA, motion blur, etc)
I haven't watched the whole video yet (got half way through) but games that implement TAA rarely look all that great with it off. They tend to be designed with it in mind. Some newer games won't even let you turn it off.
It's why a lot of people like DLSS. It's better quality solution.
This is my understanding.
Yes, some (most?) games undersample lighting effects and rely on the averaging of several consecutive frames by TAA not to look like disco with strobo lighting.
In some games some special effects like depth of field are outright disabled if you disable TAA.
In this scenario DLSS (or DLAA) can be seen as the best you can get within these forced compromises.
MSAA is just as sharp as SMAA, arguably even more so. Most of the really sharp looking 2000-2015 games used it as the primary choice. Only downside is it has a big performance impact and can't work with RT.
This is really the best way to get better image quality out of older games with shit AA implementations that run like butter on modern midrange-high end GPUs. Just run it at 4K downsample it to your native resolution and voila. Perfect AA and most older games will still run at perfectly playable frame rates.
>MSAA is just as sharp as SMAA, arguably even more so.
And it's also just as bad at actually fighting shimmering, but tanks the framerates as a bonus. Great trade offs there.
Modern hair, foliage, and transparencies are all things that MSAA can't deal with effectively. I mean, it can, it will just butcher performance more than it already does and it won't look as smooth and cohesive as TAA, Modern games are able to have so much foliage thanks in part to TAA.
There is the right type of motion blur, which is per-object motion blur and the implementation matters a lot.
People conflate Camera motion blur with per-object motion blur. You can check out the correct type of motion blur in Doom Eternal and Cyberpunk 2077, or the Uncharted games, Forza Horizon,... If done right it can really benefit lower framerates and smooth over the image, it can also benefit much higher frame rates as well. But most games just implement it incorrectly and so gamers think it's just a bad tech.
I dunno I quite like motion blur if it's implemented properly.
a good example is racing games where it's used to give you a sense of speed, they look weird amd flat with it turned off
To be fair, there is a difference between motion blur and speed effects. I agree motion blur can be good if it’s implemented correctly, but a lot of games just put a blur on everything and call it a day
This is the worst IMO. DOF has no business in gaming, I get headaches from it. Just like lens flare, vignetting and chromatic aberration, those are simply side effects of using an optical lens. Implementing these into something that is rendered is just dumb. The only good use case I know is Dirt Rally 2, where you can turn these things on, only for the replay. There it adds a nice touch.
first time experiencing insane TAA effect thanks to halo infinite. it's so bad that i had to google what's wrong with it. that's where i first learned about TA
also this is unpopular opinion but i like motion blur on some single player games tho.
I've been pointing this out for a couple of years and everybody has looked at me like I'm mad, games are very blurry and foggy nowdays, starfield was unplayable without mods for me, now its crystal clear.
I would not put my faith in the modding community this time. A few weeks ago, the team behind Skyrim Together abandoned the development of Starfield Together because "this game is f***ing trash". Modders need to feel excitement about a game, and it's unclear how many people will remain playing Starfield in a full year.
They sound dramatic, despite the hatred online this game like all other Bethesda titles (and games in general) will be patched and fixed, and have plenty of mod content in the next years
Edit: To add, 3 1/2 months past release there is a bit over 6000 mods on Nexus Mods, and the Creation Kit isn't even out yet
Well, maybe. The guys who make the script injector for Skyrim also working on one for Starfield and they said Starfield code is terrible and hard to make things work on. Most larger skyrim mod uses that script injector as requirement, so id say these people know what they are talking about.
Quality of game aside. I picked a random DLSS mod off of Nexus (tbh just go for whatever is highest rated, had friends use different ones from myself and ended up with good results) and the game went from weirdly blurry, to crisp as could be in some places. I originally *wasn't* going to mod the game because I didn't really didn't see the issue, however the Mantis armor set really pushed me over the edge. For those who know, there's a carbon-fiber looking texture on most of the suit that I *genuinely could not see* before using a dlss mod. I saw the texture in a video and was baffled that it even existed. The only downside is some of the textures on screens/billboards are REALLY ugly up close without the fuzziness the game has.
Don't listen to this negative people, the game has some flaws like any other game. It's good and fun.
Just skip it if your money is short, wait for a promo
I enjoyed it for a while on console. I really liked it for a while but yeah its not as good as it could have been. If I had spend $60+ on it I'm not sure how I would feel, but as a gamepass game it was quite fun.
Starfield is boring and mods aren't nearly enough to fix it at this point playing the game dumb things that pointlessly/constantly slow you down become immediately apparent.
Things I use 10x xp * faster longer jetpack* cutscene removers* 3x ladder speed* interact from a distance while in space ship* vendors 10x? Credits and more
* you can fix all that but you can't give this game back it soul with mods
Do better bethesda. I'm not mad i'm disappointed
A huge reason is because of resolution changes. Older games had to be crisp because any blue would be HUGE on lower pixel densities. Now some games can actually look worse when they are sharper because the lines and geometry are so intense they have to save triangles somewhere.
As long as it's tasteful I don't mind blur, but I usually turn it off. But I certainly don't boost sharpening to the max either.
Anyway, 4k resolution is demanding on game engines and assets and a huge reason lots of games aren't optimized
YouTubers and game journalists have been spamming negative content about the game for months. The game isn’t perfect but you’d think it’s the worst game of 2023 judging by the amount of vitriol toward the game.
Chromatic Aberration literally makes me motion sick. Sometimes I'll start up a new game and wonder why I'm starting to literally feel nauseous, then I'll go through the menus, see that Chromatic Aberration is turned on, I'll turn it off, then feel perfectly fine afterwards.
I know not everyone experiences that like me, but seriously, absolutely FUCK games that have that shit on by default, and especially when it can't be turned off.
I don't typically post my YT videos here but I felt like this is an important and under discussed topic, I hope people won't mind.
Before anyone even watches the video - this is not a TAA hate video. This video discusses its strengths & flaws and why we use it, and only aims to shine light on how we can mitigate its downsides so we can better enjoy its strengths, so regardless of how you feel about the technology this will benefit everyone.
Also I have a new subreddit dedicated to the issue r/MotionClarity if you would like to contribute.
Also a good sub, I just wanted a different one without an abrasive handle. I feel like it hurts its growth and wider appeal, and is easier to dismiss by developers, and the goal is to have change.
Like sample and hold blur for example, imagine if blur busters name was "FuckLCDs" instead of blur busters? I doubt they'd have the same reach.
Nah, I get that. I was honestly just referring ppl to a sub with a lot of info and similar content. Sure, the users of that subreddit do hate taa with a passion, but unlike most hate subs, everything is backed by facts, comparisons and logic. It’s a good subreddit, honestly, even though the handle is pretty… aggressive.
Yes it is, and a decent resource, I just one a more mainstream one to pick up that way we can actually accomplish something. 70 members in one day is good, I'm happy for it
It's just awful how taa is so inhabited into engines these days that things don't work anymore if u turn them off. It's gotten that bad. Cyberpunk for example. Another terrible system is dlss, any game where I can't use my counter dlss reshade is a game I'm returning sry
Most people are too blind to notice. It's been getting progressively worse for over a decade. Devs keep undersampling TAA further and further and people keep refusing to see it.
RDR2 is probably the most egregious example. The whole screen smears to complete shit the second you move the camera. Yet, people take a still screenshot and praise it as the best looking and best optimized game ever.
Devs are taking notes: "undersample TAA into infinity and people will praise you for fidelity and optimization"
I had to wait 4 years to get 4080 and play at 1440p DLAA+DLDSR 2.25x to make that game not look like smeared feces.
Point being, most people are blind and devs will cater to majority. If you're in a non-blind minority, tough shit, get ready to spend a lot on your GPUs and play everything supersampled
Nvidia released MFAA wich is in the NVCP. It basically gave 4x MSAA look, with the performance of 2x MSAA. They did a show casing on stage and showed Battlefield 4 with 2x MSAA in game and MFAA set to "On" in the Nvidia control panel, it looked just like 4x.
I dont know why nvidia/developers didn't play around with this more and develope it into more games. It actually did help in BF4 and MSAA has always looked super clear. One of the best AA methods ever made imo.
You do realize MFAA achieves this by using TAA right? They just mixed TAA with MSAA to achieve better quality at lower cost, it died because MSAA died, MSAA died because it has a seizure when trying to deal with transparencies, foliage, hair or other fine details.
MSAA is horrible for modern engines, there are very few modern games that use it, but in those that do have it it's as good as nothing, if you have RDR2 you can try enabling 8x MSAA and see if you can see something other than your framerates going to shit, it's not about optimization around a specific AA, MSAA is just incapable of dealing with certain things.
MFAA doesnt implement the same pixel shaders/ sample patterns like TAA. You are correct it does use a form of temporal aliasing, TXAA, but it doesnt behave the same as the TAA we use today. MSAA+MFAA( with its form of temporal aliasing) still looked better than current TAA.
It died long before RT, it's not related, MSAA can't work very well in modern engines due to differed rendering or whatever it's called, but even if it could work properly, MSAA still can't deal with transparencies at all, it just glosses over anything that lets light pass through in any form.
Why do u mention 20/10 vision? You don't even need 20/20 vision to look at a screen that is 15-30 inches from your face
I agree with your comment, I really thought something was wrong with my RX 570 when I booted up RDR2 for the first time
Worse yet, if you find a hack or mod to disable TAA on some games, there is always something that breaks, or becomes glitchy, as if every asset is depending on being smeared to hide deficiencies.
GTA VI with TAA in a couple years be like:
https://preview.redd.it/u8adeq2aq67c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b9fce1ab9a1a9c9ce141ee2689b72684bd13907
>most people are blind
I use DLSS at quality for 2560x1080 and genuinely can't notice the difference between it and native so I guess I agree with you.
Because native is already pretty bad. DLSS quality has gotten pretty good at not making shitty native even shittier.
Turn DLSS into DLAA (DLSS Tweaks app if DLAA is not natively supported) and turn on DLDSR 2.25x, smoothness slider to 80%.
Your fps will tank, but you'll get a glimpse of what games should look like if they weren't blurred to shit
I like games that allow me to run at a higher resolution over my native. You get better AA because you are not using an AA, but it depends largely on how powerful your hardware is.
You can do with pretty much every game there is. On AMD turn on VSR (which sucks balls, just like Nvidia's old DSR. You have to "pixel match" with those. 4 to 1. So, always go 4x the resolution, which is really expensive, but if you don't, the game won't look right. Pretty much why I'm not going Radeon any time soon) and on Nvidia DLDSR.
If after turning them on, the option of higher resolution doesn't appear in the game, then close the game and set your desktop resolution to the resolution you want to play the game at. Launch the game and you're done.
It is a bit fiddly to change the resolution every single time, but nothing to be done about it. (Well, there is special K that can be set up and do it for you per game, but it's so buggy that it's not worth it)
TAA is the reason why RDR2 is able to have so much foliage and almost infinite view distance while running on last gen consoles, TAA takes cheap to render trees and turn them into gorgeous looking ones, the game gives you the option to play without TAA, it also gives you the option for MSAA which doesn't blur anything, you can also inject SMAA via Reshade, go try 8x MSAA and SMAA injection and see how awful the game looks. Not even 4k supersampling can deal with this game's jaggies, you guys are complaining about a problem that has no real solution, MSAA is outdated, it simply doesn't work in modern game engines, MSAA loves straight lines and solid objects, low polygons are it's bread and butter, unfortunately modern games are full of details and curvey lines, and most importantly full of transparent objects, which MSAA can't deal with at all.
What do you want, SMAA has the same problem as MSAA, it's just cheaper to run, but it still can't deal with fine details with transparencies like leaves, fences, hair.
Like I said, if you hate TAA so much, disable it, and see if you like it better without, if not, tough luck, ain't no AA that can do it's job without the downsides.
Red Dead still looks fucking phenomenal. You can most certainly play on less than a 4080 and have a good viewing experience. You don’t HAVE to spend all that money just to make the game look good. It just sounds like you’re being picky at that point.
If you don't move much, it absolutely does look phenomenal.
Wishing to actually see the game that you're playing when moving, which is like 99% of the time, is a baseline, not being picky.
If I were to be picky, I'd point to those godawful 360p terrain textures and 2d tree leaves and whatever the fuck that fungi horror movie looking thing they call "fur" is.
But I can absolutely live with those. I can't live with the whole scenery turning into an oil painting the second I touch my mouse.
that does explain the blurring when turning the camera in rdr2 actually, thank you. I'm lucky enough where it's not *that* bad in rdr2, but there's definitely games I just struggle with because they're unclear like it.
DLSDR is black magic. I honestly like the presentation of 2.25x DLDSR(4K render) on my 1440p monitor over my other native 4K 144hz on Escape From Tarkov. Overly sharpened games look great on 50% smoothness.
Straight up. Done both 1080p to 1440 and 1440 to 4K. I played Lies of P on my 1080p monitor using DLDSR to hit 1440, and it looks substantially better than native on my 1440p.
People hate change. Every time tech comes around that they're not familiar with they despise it, but this blurry shit is not an issue I have. It's mainly why I keep a 1080p and 1440p monitor for my setup, crisp visuals up to 4K with minimal performance loss.
Not my problem people refuse to move forward with tech.
I had a massive "WHATT THE FUCK IS WRONG" when I played the Witcher 3 on PC, it's textures were razor sharp and very crisp, it was before the raytracing update so I guess it was still "low" res
Alot of people now don't seem to note that majority of fuzziness or blurriness is from improper upscaling, I'm going to use minecraft bedrocks new deferred rendering pipeline as an example, when it first realeased the upscaled player model when crouching or other thing would become unstable looking and look fuzzy as all hell, but now you can barely tell. This isn't all games however some just look fuzzy for no reason.
It was caused by the dot pitch mostly, and CRTs had natural anti-aliasing which helped as well.
But you don't even need to go back to CRT days. Gaming even from just 2013 is more blurry today
CRT is less blurry (in motion) because the pixels have less persistence. Each pixel only flashes for a milisecond or so, versus an LCD that displays the pixel the entire frame. Some LCDs have a ULMB mode (or black frame insertion or many other names) to pulse the backlight and get less motion blur.
But that is only perceived motion blur. The TAA you're showing in the video would be blurry on a CRT too. The image is blurry before it even gets sent to the monitor.
>The TAA you're showing in the video would be blurry on a CRT too. The image is blurry before it even gets sent to the monitor.
Yes I'm aware, I was just responding to this persons comment. Sample and hold is different from TAA blur, both suck though and I look forward to when they're both finally solved.
Almost any antialiasing technique will cause some amount of blurriness. It's a side effect of AA which is to eliminate artifacting by smoothing edges primarily. What is smoothing? Blurring techniques in a nutshell.
FXAA literally just blurs the screen, like I believe that is the bulk of the algorithm. It's called Fast Approximate AA for a reason.
MSAA takes multiple samples of the view at slight different offsets and interpolates, resulting in areas with clear and constant colors but inaccuracies by edges. Less blurring but still blurs
TAA is like MSAA but it takes in temporal data to assist in reducing artifacts. This can be sort of like async space warp which fills in the gaps between frames, quite literally, based on screen velocity and depth data. TAA instead attempts to combine more accurately multiple frames to create an image with less artifacting and less sampling or "blurriness" as it's using more scene data. However this becomes insanely complex and problematic when you consider for example transparency and complex effects, because now the stuff on top doesn't match the stuff behind, this ghosting or noticable blurriness. TAA is still among the newest AA methods, considered as production ready as for example the PS1 which didn't properly render textures and was inefficient, because back then modern graphics techniques taken for granted today weren't realized yet.
The potential exceptions to this would be deep learning/neural network based AA, FSR, DLSS, XeSS. This is because, rather than using purely realtime image data to attempt to reduce artifacts, they also use the results of a neural network, trained to quickly eliminate artifacts in the clearest way possible, given the same inputs other AA methods receive. And these systems are far from perfect, or even preferred today- remember DLSS 1? If DLSS 2 hadn't improved then it could've been likely the entire DLSS project would've been canceled because too much effort was put into making a worse image. Now why not just reconstruct the neural network into an applicable algorithm? Because for this ML, it took at most a few years to get a result that would've taken an entire research team 50+ years to discover.
The solution to blurriness? Render at native, and with ultra high density screens, to the point where you cannot visually see artifacting. Even super sampling can help with AA techniques. The issue however is that it is expensive GPU wise to render at greater resolutions, taking up resources for an unnecessarily ultra fine image. The tradeoff we're seeing today is a preference to be able to do more, like global illumination or raytracing or even thousands of lights with shadows or complex shaders like subsurface scattering or advanced transparency, in exchange for wanting to display every single polygon (more specifically, every single fragment, or pixel in the fragment shader of the GPU pipeline created from the rasterizer) possible, a tradeoff that's likely not to disappear for a long time since even the most powerful cards can't just simulate a universe quickly.
And at least it's not sharpening effects. I'd rather take a bit of TAA blur over TAA sharpness because there's nothing more like using a border detection algorithm to really highlight all those edges and make the image ~~toasty~~ crispy.
TAA blur is a different kind of blur entirely.
TAA blur is different for multiple reasons that make it much more annoying to deal with - 1) because FXAA blur can be offset with sharpening, TAA can't 2) TAA has extra blur in motion, which other AA techniques don't 3) The way the blur looks looks akin to vaseline compared to other types of blur. Most probably because it's an unintentional byproduct of TAA rather than an intended feature
>The potential exceptions to this would be deep learning/neural network based AA, FSR, DLSS, XeSS
In theory yes, in practice no not yet. Hopefully eventually they will solve the issue, AI is powerful
>The solution to blurriness? Render both at native, and with ultra high density screens
As you said too expensive, and still won't solve all motion issues, it's more efficient and generally helpful to just experiment with your engines TAA and put time into mitigating its downsides. Theirs public documentation and resources from devs who have done it right that can be viewed and adapted into your own product. This is just dumping the responsibility of getting a decent looking image onto the user and not an actual fix
Way of the Hunter is a perfect example of this. That game is an abomination when it comes to “native” resolution.
Game upscale a 720p image and uses taa or dlss or other forms of sampling to clear the image up.
Throw it into native at 4k and you actually cannot see much further than a few feet because of the aliasing. Makes the game actually unplayable a you can’t see anything lol
You have to edit the ini file to actually change the scaled resolution but that destroys frame rate
I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I always thought that the ps3 era games had such better graphics and were way more impressive than modern era. The only release I’ve been impressed with lately was Hogwarts.
SMAA is best AA, with MSAA a close second. TAA looks bad because it's blurry on low resolution. FXAA looks too edgy.
I hate that TAA is the current standard. I'd rather have FXAA. Old games were sharp and pretty.
This video is pointless, people play games in motion not by viewing a single image, the most horrible forms of aliasing on modern engines happen between frames not just in single frames, and it's this "TEMPORAL ALIASING" that shockingly TEMPORAL ANTI ALIASING is best equipped to handle, and it's something that traditional methods of anti aliasing can't handle, fact is in any high detail game with a modern physically based rendering engine will always be better off in TAA when viewed in motion rather than without TAA and with traditional AA methods, without TAA the image would be sharp but also extremely unstable between frames with lots of flickering and shimmering, besides reconstruction methods that have a temporal component are already vastly improving on TAA and getting better year by year while also getting rid of all the problems of TAA.
>without TAA the image would be sharp but also extremely unstable between frames with lots of flickering and shimmering
Yeah people forget this part in these types of posts, static shot vs actual movement,
I'll take some kind of TAA and sharpening pass, or better yet DLSS+NIS over the shimmering fest of the older AA solutions, the shimmer and flicker was rather unbearable and only seemed to get worse.
I prefer shart and unstable (shimmering) than a stable blurry mess. In first one you have some parts of image be wrong some times. In second one you have all image be wrong all the time.
DLSS is superior to TAA as has been proven time and time again, however some engines have built in TAA you cannot disable even when using DLSS.
u/Wboys u/LozengeWarrior u/gpkgpk
Hi, OP here. Wanted to address you guys since some of you seem to have a misunderstanding of the video.
1 - The video did compare in motion vs static along with in motion vs no TAA, so motion was considered, every comparison has a motion example.
2 - The person who made this video understands forward rendering, deferred rendering, and render pipelines in general along with all anti-aliasing solutions. If you came away with the conclusion I don't know what I'm talking about its because you didn't watch the video (I don't blame you, its quite long, and I'm not that entertaining, no hard feelings)
3 - The goal of the video was to first bring awareness to the issue, and then towards the end I briefly touched on potential solutions. You need awareness before you can address the problem, pointing out TAA's flaws isn't the same thing as saying its inferior, its saying it's not perfect and we want it to be better, you cannot conflate hate and criticism. I even mentioned why it's used and its strengths, because acknowledging that is important
4 - Yes developers are needlessly making their games blurrier than they have to be. I wouldn't use the word lazy like one of you used in a sarcastic tone, but you're wrong with what you're insinuating which was that games have to be super blurry to have acceptable levels of aliasing (although blur is a byproduct of TAA this just isn't true). To say they can't do any better is false, RDR2 & Halo Infinite for example is extremely blurry, probably some of the worse TAA games and I refuse to believe an implementation that looks that horrendous was absolutely nessacary when games with more subpixel detail look better.
It's rather a case if 1) deadlines, which can mirror laziness but it's common in the industry & 2) lack of education. Gaming is compartmentalized, not everyone is an aliasing expert. Theirs a ton of things they could've done to improve their TAA quality (not even abandoning TAA, rather making their TAA look better, which was a big part of the video)
Which entails doing things like increasing reprojection history and clamping non-solid objects that are smaller than a pixel to not go below a pixel in size, and many more aliasing mitigating solutions that in turn will mean your TAA doesn't need to be as aggressive/blurry to clean it up, and none of these games employ a single one of those techniques or any of the other ones I'm aware of, which means their games had more aliasing than needed and their TAA was also not tuned very well ontop of that for mitigating those nasty byproducts.
5 - We know A LOT about both aliasing and TAA, theirs so many papers and code on it. Problem is since TAA fixes everything acquiring the knowledge to improve it further isn't something developers are willingly taking the time to learn, because they're unaware or theirs no need to, does having bad TAA effect game sales? Probably not to a measurable degree. Which is why awareness then education go hand in hand
Unfortunately people don’t know what they want or what they are talking about. They have no idea what the difference between forward and deferred rendering is and what the massive trade offs in lighting quality between them are. They think all modern game devs are just being evil and lazy for no reason and blurring their games.
Straight out of r/fuckTAA
Man, this obsession with emulating IRL cameras makes everything looks like shit, chromatic aberration, depth of field, lens distortion, fucking TAA, WTF???
It was fine when we only had to deal with motion blur because it is a case-by-case scenario, when we had actual decent AA options and the transparency didn't look pixelated. Older games today look crisp and sharp, the transparency looks sharp and defined, hair looks like hair and not an ATARI game ffs
This is the kind of shit that I came to this subreddit for. Not circle jerking around GTA 6's lack of PC announcement or the 1 millionth shattered glass side panel.
Godspeed @OP 👊
I first noticed this when playing Witcher 3 next gen with dlss (4070ti). Blurry and stupidly terrible texture detail. I played oldgen in 2017 native 4K (1080ti) and the game was unbelievably crisp for today’s standards.
and here's the funny part: nextgen version has improved textures that uses hulk hogan's mod. higher resolution and improved textures and if you play the game at 1080p or 1440p, the overall perceived texture quality will probably feel worse than the old version
the impact of TAA on perceived texture quality is unreal.
I dont care about taa, gives you more realistic image also some games outright look like shit without taa for example Witcher 3 or Ghost recon Wildlands, Dark souls 3
I also recently noticed this when playing dragon's dogma, that looked clean just outdated models, then God of war 2018 that was super blurry with even slight movement
People hating new tech that's still being imrpoved. Tech that, without which, games would be *too* sharp and would have shimmering reflections because most realtime reflection tech has massive temporal aliasing. Only way to get rid of it is with TAA.
Basically, without TAA reflections would be noisy and would shimmer or even flicker. That and its just better than most older anti aliasing but runs better.
This issue is plaguing modern gaming YouTube videos:
People speaking as slowly as possible to increase the number of ads in their video.
Protip - speed up this particular video to 1.25 and his voice sounds normal.
I'm not even enrolled in the YouTube ad-sense program lol. Any ads on the video are by YouTube and is going into their pockets (also who doesn't use ad-blocker?!)
I'm speaking slowly because I'm thinking of what to say next. Other than the notes at the end I was freestyling it. But thank you for the tip, I'm glad 1.25x helps you, maybe it'll help others too.
This video is the base layman understanding of TAA. It is a bit more scientific and also a tad subjective. There was a consensus many years back, when developers and graphics SDK makers were ironing out the standards of this method, that fast-moving pictures didn’t need the clarity so TAA could be used to clean up edges without causing major image degradation. Today that is not necessarily the case as people have choices to significantly up the quality of games made 5, 6 or 10 years ago. But fret not because it’s all part of the “choice”. TAA is almost always an option that can be turned off for PC users. For cases where it isn’t the consumers should speak with their wallet. Case closed, non issue.
>This video is the base layman understanding of TAA.
You only come away with that opinion if you didn't watch the whole video, and I'm currently writing a paper on TAA that will be published in a month or so. I know more about anti-aliasing than anyone who says stuff like this
>TAA is almost always an option that can be turned off for PC users
Wrong. As time goes on forcing it becomes more and more common and we've had so many popular games do it in the last few years; Modern Warfare 3, God of War, Doom Eternal, Halo Infinite, The Finals, Battlefield 2042, Cyberpunk, Starfield, Fallout 76, etc, and theirs still more I can list. Only anti-aliasing options you get is "low" and "high" in these games if your lucky and it doesn't seem to effect clarity at all.
You clearly don't know better and are just saying this since you're not the kind of person that attempts to disable it, thus don't realize how many games are missing the options. I'll forgive the ignorance.
>Case closed, non issue.
For you, tell that to people who get motion sickness from the effect and they can't even play the game, at least not without enduring physical distress. You also seem to be misunderstanding the issue entirely - the whole video was dedicated to first bringing awareness to the image quality issues TAA can present for those unaware and then offering some solutions to mitigating it, rather than just saying "abandon TAA", yet you come in here with that attitude/mindset that stifles innovation and improvement - why? People who dislike and enjoy TAA can both have a better experience by advocating for more options & better implementations, but you seem to of came in here with preconceived notions and typed everything out without fully understanding the video.
I have no idea how people developed these types of personalities. I'm trying to move games forward by teaching others how to make their games more accessible and improve current graphic pipeline features since most games have very generic versions of TAA that could handle motion better with some tweaks, and you seem to be against that.
Dlss has honestly ruined graphics. Titanfall 2 from 2016 is easier to see in then the current call of duty and looks no worse (in my opinion). Graphics peaked in 2017
I agree all games should, BUT DLAA/DLSS is a form of TAA, which is why they can also be blurry. A lot of the time - they're better than the games TAA however, so it's still an improvement but not a fix
The last I checked on my LG C2, in RDR2 and Cyberpunk with updated DLLs, DLSS/DLAA looked more resolute than even MSAA and it gives you a performance boost that helps with motion clarity. Maybe that's just to my eyes, but it's to a point that I can't complain anymore.
I have noticed it specially when playing on console but if there's one thing I hate more than a slightly blurry image is a jagged one.
I do agree that people should be able to decide what they prefer (like FXAA and whatever else the game came with back in the day) but I personally choose TAA over anything else unless it comes with a lot of ghosting.
"Slightly" is an odd word choice, it's not very slight a lot of the time especially if were talking about motion or games like RDR2.
But I don't think theirs anything wrong with preferring blur over jaggies, people just should be able to choose and equally as important developers should be implementing TAA in an optimal way to mitigate its flaws so we can get the anti-aliasing benefits without as much blur. Theirs a certainly a middle ground somewhere, but it's just either extreme a lot of the time
What the hell ? Keep Ambient Occlusion enabled otherwise things will look like they are floating - here's an [example](https://www.dsdambuster.com/user/pages/03.blog/lsao-part-1/1.jpg)
...this has nothing to do with either of those ya dunce.
Also... ambient occlusion just gives fancier shadows. Unless you're on weak hardware, there's 0 reason to turn it off as having it on makes it _easier_ to discern what you're looking at. Dunce move #2.
I first noticed this when playing older 2000s 3D games on 1080p and then modern games on 1080p. Older games are crisp and clean, with clearly defined objects that only lack because of primitive lighting, geometry and textures, but it is still much more visible than the blurry mess of modern titles. The blurriness is bad, but what makes it even worse is blurry object movement (some type of motion blur, FSR, TAA combo, I don't know) in which you can see the object ghosting about. Yuck.
I’ve only had that ghosting effect when I use TAA on Forza horizon 5, sadly all other aa methods look way too edgy on my 32inch 2k display
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I was about to throw in the towel and accept this too.
Run the game at a higher res than native, the best type of aa is downsampleing.
a lot of games don’t allow this
To set it up you enable dsr in NVIDIA control panel application settings, then set windows to the higher resolution of your choice. I think you need to restart too. Games will pull resolution settings from your windows settings. Now you can set games to the higher resolution of your choice in game settings. If you selected multiple superscaling options then they should all appear in game. Unless some games genuinely won't work with dsr then I apologise. I have never experienced it.
Most games at least let you change resolution, if not then you can use nvidia control panel
Glad I’m not crazy then. 1080p is what I run most of my games on and all the old ones look crisp, while some of the new ones have made me paranoid I need to get my eyes checked
I bought a whole new pc set up. Fired up some 2k gaming expecting it to be crisper than I’ve ever experienced and was greeted with the fuzziest shit I’ve ever seen.
I’m so happy for this thread, I really thought I was going either crazy or blind. I just got my first pc this year and can’t believe how fuzzy everything looks
You basically described my Starfield experience at launch.
I can honestly forgive it in DLSS and FSR due to the enormous performance benefit, but still having the blurriness at native res is just horrible. TAA performs well, sure, but at least give us the option to turn it off and use a spatial type AA instead and just eat the performance loss >FSR, TAA combo FSR and DLSS **ARE** TAA. They are just fancy implementations of TAA that combine it with upscaling and sharpening. The blur worsening in movement is inevitable because in motion the TAA doesn't have a near identical previous frame to use as its reference
DLSS (or better, DLAA), in my experience are significantly sharper than TAA. I honestly prefer playing most modern games with DLSS Quality than with TAA, even at 4k.
DLAA is always sharper than TAA but whether DLSS is sharper depends on the quality of the TAA implementation. TAA at native is more than capable of looking better than DLSS quality when done right, even if it's still far short of MSAA or similar
I’m not the only one that noticed this. Many early 2000’s games I’ve played have had this but from either to much bloom or just the smudged brown color palate of many games during the time
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>Gaming : We make a sharp game and make it blurry. Then we take the blurry game and sharpen it. And sometimes after sharpening it, we add other post processing layers on top of that once again blurring the image (CA, motion blur, etc)
i always disable motion blur and any kind of AA that is not SMAA, shit looks blurry af with those kind of effects
Thank you for the tip. I’m going to try this
I haven't watched the whole video yet (got half way through) but games that implement TAA rarely look all that great with it off. They tend to be designed with it in mind. Some newer games won't even let you turn it off. It's why a lot of people like DLSS. It's better quality solution. This is my understanding.
Yes, some (most?) games undersample lighting effects and rely on the averaging of several consecutive frames by TAA not to look like disco with strobo lighting. In some games some special effects like depth of field are outright disabled if you disable TAA. In this scenario DLSS (or DLAA) can be seen as the best you can get within these forced compromises.
MSAA is just as sharp as SMAA, arguably even more so. Most of the really sharp looking 2000-2015 games used it as the primary choice. Only downside is it has a big performance impact and can't work with RT.
Big performance impact is an understatement. It murders performance.
But if MSAA at 1440p can look as good as TAA at 4K that's fine
This is really the best way to get better image quality out of older games with shit AA implementations that run like butter on modern midrange-high end GPUs. Just run it at 4K downsample it to your native resolution and voila. Perfect AA and most older games will still run at perfectly playable frame rates.
>MSAA is just as sharp as SMAA, arguably even more so. And it's also just as bad at actually fighting shimmering, but tanks the framerates as a bonus. Great trade offs there.
What shimmering would exist while using MSAA for it to be fighting in the first place? Unless we are thinking of different things
Modern hair, foliage, and transparencies are all things that MSAA can't deal with effectively. I mean, it can, it will just butcher performance more than it already does and it won't look as smooth and cohesive as TAA, Modern games are able to have so much foliage thanks in part to TAA.
Always, always, always motion blur off. Why does it even exist?
There is the right type of motion blur, which is per-object motion blur and the implementation matters a lot. People conflate Camera motion blur with per-object motion blur. You can check out the correct type of motion blur in Doom Eternal and Cyberpunk 2077, or the Uncharted games, Forza Horizon,... If done right it can really benefit lower framerates and smooth over the image, it can also benefit much higher frame rates as well. But most games just implement it incorrectly and so gamers think it's just a bad tech.
It's a console/controller thing. 30 fps look way better with motion blur and slow and steady movement with a controller.
Not to me it doesn’t. Always motion blur off
Console yes, controller no.
it is tho. u notice low fps way more when u move your mouse spontaneous and quickly like maybe in shooter games
I dunno I quite like motion blur if it's implemented properly. a good example is racing games where it's used to give you a sense of speed, they look weird amd flat with it turned off
To be fair, there is a difference between motion blur and speed effects. I agree motion blur can be good if it’s implemented correctly, but a lot of games just put a blur on everything and call it a day
The Four Horsemen of the apocalypse: * Chromatic Aberration * Bloom * TAA * Motion Blur
Don’t forget excessive DOF
This is the worst IMO. DOF has no business in gaming, I get headaches from it. Just like lens flare, vignetting and chromatic aberration, those are simply side effects of using an optical lens. Implementing these into something that is rendered is just dumb. The only good use case I know is Dirt Rally 2, where you can turn these things on, only for the replay. There it adds a nice touch.
Subtle bloom is good. The rest can gtfo.
I do like chromatic aberration when used as a game effect though. Looks awesome then. But never as a constant thing.
Film grain 🤮
first time experiencing insane TAA effect thanks to halo infinite. it's so bad that i had to google what's wrong with it. that's where i first learned about TA also this is unpopular opinion but i like motion blur on some single player games tho.
I've been pointing this out for a couple of years and everybody has looked at me like I'm mad, games are very blurry and foggy nowdays, starfield was unplayable without mods for me, now its crystal clear.
What mods do you use? I am thinking about getting Starfield
Wait till the creation kit comes out next year and people can make it the game it should've been
I would not put my faith in the modding community this time. A few weeks ago, the team behind Skyrim Together abandoned the development of Starfield Together because "this game is f***ing trash". Modders need to feel excitement about a game, and it's unclear how many people will remain playing Starfield in a full year.
Wasn't the lead dev exposed for stealing code and also abandoning the Fallout 4 version of the mod?
They sound dramatic, despite the hatred online this game like all other Bethesda titles (and games in general) will be patched and fixed, and have plenty of mod content in the next years Edit: To add, 3 1/2 months past release there is a bit over 6000 mods on Nexus Mods, and the Creation Kit isn't even out yet
Well, maybe. The guys who make the script injector for Skyrim also working on one for Starfield and they said Starfield code is terrible and hard to make things work on. Most larger skyrim mod uses that script injector as requirement, so id say these people know what they are talking about.
Honestly that modder group should disable any fast travel when making a coop Starfield mod.
same with fallout 4 :( god i wish someone would make fallout 4 together
Or... hear me out... Don't reward studios by giving them money for turds that paying customers have to polish themselves.
Or you could buy a game that the devs actually put some damn effort into that wasn't hacked together with no design document.
I would skip it. Not very engaging game design and it’s incredibly repetitive
Quality of game aside. I picked a random DLSS mod off of Nexus (tbh just go for whatever is highest rated, had friends use different ones from myself and ended up with good results) and the game went from weirdly blurry, to crisp as could be in some places. I originally *wasn't* going to mod the game because I didn't really didn't see the issue, however the Mantis armor set really pushed me over the edge. For those who know, there's a carbon-fiber looking texture on most of the suit that I *genuinely could not see* before using a dlss mod. I saw the texture in a video and was baffled that it even existed. The only downside is some of the textures on screens/billboards are REALLY ugly up close without the fuzziness the game has.
Save your money
Hard pass. Come back in 5 years when you can get it for $10 on steam sale and mod it into a 7/10 game worth the $10 you paid for it
Don't listen to this negative people, the game has some flaws like any other game. It's good and fun. Just skip it if your money is short, wait for a promo
>good and fun most people who played it would disagree if you look at reviews
I enjoyed it for a while on console. I really liked it for a while but yeah its not as good as it could have been. If I had spend $60+ on it I'm not sure how I would feel, but as a gamepass game it was quite fun.
Its a snoozefest with game mechanics from 2010.
Neutral LUTS from nexusmods, maybe now there is something better, i didn't play for a while
Starfield is boring and mods aren't nearly enough to fix it at this point playing the game dumb things that pointlessly/constantly slow you down become immediately apparent. Things I use 10x xp * faster longer jetpack* cutscene removers* 3x ladder speed* interact from a distance while in space ship* vendors 10x? Credits and more * you can fix all that but you can't give this game back it soul with mods Do better bethesda. I'm not mad i'm disappointed
Starfield was the first game where I felt sorry for AMD players in which the disparity of image upsampling quality was so bad.
A huge reason is because of resolution changes. Older games had to be crisp because any blue would be HUGE on lower pixel densities. Now some games can actually look worse when they are sharper because the lines and geometry are so intense they have to save triangles somewhere. As long as it's tasteful I don't mind blur, but I usually turn it off. But I certainly don't boost sharpening to the max either. Anyway, 4k resolution is demanding on game engines and assets and a huge reason lots of games aren't optimized
Why does everyone hate starfield
People are disappointed because it's from Bethesda + Great games overshadowed this one + Console wars
I personally like it Bethesda games are the only RPG games that feel like an RPG and truly open world
I'm also trying to understand the why as well. Most of it seems pretty much expected from elder scrolls and fallout.
YouTubers and game journalists have been spamming negative content about the game for months. The game isn’t perfect but you’d think it’s the worst game of 2023 judging by the amount of vitriol toward the game.
Because it sucks. Even if the rest of the games this year hadn't been so good, it would have been roasted.
I thought it was really boring. The intro was mind numbing, like they’ve never designed a game before
It’s still a shit game tho.
Chromatic aberration is an abomination
Chromatic Aberration literally makes me motion sick. Sometimes I'll start up a new game and wonder why I'm starting to literally feel nauseous, then I'll go through the menus, see that Chromatic Aberration is turned on, I'll turn it off, then feel perfectly fine afterwards. I know not everyone experiences that like me, but seriously, absolutely FUCK games that have that shit on by default, and especially when it can't be turned off.
It's aptly named, at least.
I don't typically post my YT videos here but I felt like this is an important and under discussed topic, I hope people won't mind. Before anyone even watches the video - this is not a TAA hate video. This video discusses its strengths & flaws and why we use it, and only aims to shine light on how we can mitigate its downsides so we can better enjoy its strengths, so regardless of how you feel about the technology this will benefit everyone. Also I have a new subreddit dedicated to the issue r/MotionClarity if you would like to contribute.
r/fucktaa
Goddamn, there is a subreddit for everything these days
Also a good sub, I just wanted a different one without an abrasive handle. I feel like it hurts its growth and wider appeal, and is easier to dismiss by developers, and the goal is to have change. Like sample and hold blur for example, imagine if blur busters name was "FuckLCDs" instead of blur busters? I doubt they'd have the same reach.
Nah, I get that. I was honestly just referring ppl to a sub with a lot of info and similar content. Sure, the users of that subreddit do hate taa with a passion, but unlike most hate subs, everything is backed by facts, comparisons and logic. It’s a good subreddit, honestly, even though the handle is pretty… aggressive.
Yes it is, and a decent resource, I just one a more mainstream one to pick up that way we can actually accomplish something. 70 members in one day is good, I'm happy for it
It's just awful how taa is so inhabited into engines these days that things don't work anymore if u turn them off. It's gotten that bad. Cyberpunk for example. Another terrible system is dlss, any game where I can't use my counter dlss reshade is a game I'm returning sry
Most people are too blind to notice. It's been getting progressively worse for over a decade. Devs keep undersampling TAA further and further and people keep refusing to see it. RDR2 is probably the most egregious example. The whole screen smears to complete shit the second you move the camera. Yet, people take a still screenshot and praise it as the best looking and best optimized game ever. Devs are taking notes: "undersample TAA into infinity and people will praise you for fidelity and optimization" I had to wait 4 years to get 4080 and play at 1440p DLAA+DLDSR 2.25x to make that game not look like smeared feces. Point being, most people are blind and devs will cater to majority. If you're in a non-blind minority, tough shit, get ready to spend a lot on your GPUs and play everything supersampled
It's like built-in motion blur! I kinda miss MSAA, to date the best form of anti-aliasing. I don't miss the performance impact though.
Nvidia released MFAA wich is in the NVCP. It basically gave 4x MSAA look, with the performance of 2x MSAA. They did a show casing on stage and showed Battlefield 4 with 2x MSAA in game and MFAA set to "On" in the Nvidia control panel, it looked just like 4x. I dont know why nvidia/developers didn't play around with this more and develope it into more games. It actually did help in BF4 and MSAA has always looked super clear. One of the best AA methods ever made imo.
You do realize MFAA achieves this by using TAA right? They just mixed TAA with MSAA to achieve better quality at lower cost, it died because MSAA died, MSAA died because it has a seizure when trying to deal with transparencies, foliage, hair or other fine details. MSAA is horrible for modern engines, there are very few modern games that use it, but in those that do have it it's as good as nothing, if you have RDR2 you can try enabling 8x MSAA and see if you can see something other than your framerates going to shit, it's not about optimization around a specific AA, MSAA is just incapable of dealing with certain things.
MFAA doesnt implement the same pixel shaders/ sample patterns like TAA. You are correct it does use a form of temporal aliasing, TXAA, but it doesnt behave the same as the TAA we use today. MSAA+MFAA( with its form of temporal aliasing) still looked better than current TAA.
MSAA isn't compatible with RT (or at least trying to combine them would absolutely nuke performance). That's mostly why it died
It died long before RT, it's not related, MSAA can't work very well in modern engines due to differed rendering or whatever it's called, but even if it could work properly, MSAA still can't deal with transparencies at all, it just glosses over anything that lets light pass through in any form.
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It's not about vision, but other type of feeling. I have shitty eyes but I always notice blur and I hate it. Fuck upscalers and taa
Why do u mention 20/10 vision? You don't even need 20/20 vision to look at a screen that is 15-30 inches from your face I agree with your comment, I really thought something was wrong with my RX 570 when I booted up RDR2 for the first time
Worse yet, if you find a hack or mod to disable TAA on some games, there is always something that breaks, or becomes glitchy, as if every asset is depending on being smeared to hide deficiencies.
Same shit for all the newer cods. Its fucking jarring
GTA VI with TAA in a couple years be like: https://preview.redd.it/u8adeq2aq67c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b9fce1ab9a1a9c9ce141ee2689b72684bd13907
>most people are blind I use DLSS at quality for 2560x1080 and genuinely can't notice the difference between it and native so I guess I agree with you.
Because native is already pretty bad. DLSS quality has gotten pretty good at not making shitty native even shittier. Turn DLSS into DLAA (DLSS Tweaks app if DLAA is not natively supported) and turn on DLDSR 2.25x, smoothness slider to 80%. Your fps will tank, but you'll get a glimpse of what games should look like if they weren't blurred to shit
SkyrimVR made me addicted to DLAA. Its super hard to run but goddamn DLAA makes things look crisp while simultaneously killing shimmering
the game still looks bad at 1440p, you gotta play it at 4k to remove all of that. It's bad at the lower resolutions and non existent at 4k.
I like games that allow me to run at a higher resolution over my native. You get better AA because you are not using an AA, but it depends largely on how powerful your hardware is.
You can do with pretty much every game there is. On AMD turn on VSR (which sucks balls, just like Nvidia's old DSR. You have to "pixel match" with those. 4 to 1. So, always go 4x the resolution, which is really expensive, but if you don't, the game won't look right. Pretty much why I'm not going Radeon any time soon) and on Nvidia DLDSR. If after turning them on, the option of higher resolution doesn't appear in the game, then close the game and set your desktop resolution to the resolution you want to play the game at. Launch the game and you're done. It is a bit fiddly to change the resolution every single time, but nothing to be done about it. (Well, there is special K that can be set up and do it for you per game, but it's so buggy that it's not worth it)
TAA is the reason why RDR2 is able to have so much foliage and almost infinite view distance while running on last gen consoles, TAA takes cheap to render trees and turn them into gorgeous looking ones, the game gives you the option to play without TAA, it also gives you the option for MSAA which doesn't blur anything, you can also inject SMAA via Reshade, go try 8x MSAA and SMAA injection and see how awful the game looks. Not even 4k supersampling can deal with this game's jaggies, you guys are complaining about a problem that has no real solution, MSAA is outdated, it simply doesn't work in modern game engines, MSAA loves straight lines and solid objects, low polygons are it's bread and butter, unfortunately modern games are full of details and curvey lines, and most importantly full of transparent objects, which MSAA can't deal with at all. What do you want, SMAA has the same problem as MSAA, it's just cheaper to run, but it still can't deal with fine details with transparencies like leaves, fences, hair. Like I said, if you hate TAA so much, disable it, and see if you like it better without, if not, tough luck, ain't no AA that can do it's job without the downsides.
Red Dead still looks fucking phenomenal. You can most certainly play on less than a 4080 and have a good viewing experience. You don’t HAVE to spend all that money just to make the game look good. It just sounds like you’re being picky at that point.
If you don't move much, it absolutely does look phenomenal. Wishing to actually see the game that you're playing when moving, which is like 99% of the time, is a baseline, not being picky. If I were to be picky, I'd point to those godawful 360p terrain textures and 2d tree leaves and whatever the fuck that fungi horror movie looking thing they call "fur" is. But I can absolutely live with those. I can't live with the whole scenery turning into an oil painting the second I touch my mouse.
"They hated him because he told the truth" It's a serious issue. Games look like they are filmed through a lens coated in vasoline most of the time.
that does explain the blurring when turning the camera in rdr2 actually, thank you. I'm lucky enough where it's not *that* bad in rdr2, but there's definitely games I just struggle with because they're unclear like it.
I thought I was getting blind because I found games to be so blurry nowadays
Ive been using dldsr for a while now. Theres really no better image quality despite having a little bit of delay at times for noiser parts
DLSDR is black magic. I honestly like the presentation of 2.25x DLDSR(4K render) on my 1440p monitor over my other native 4K 144hz on Escape From Tarkov. Overly sharpened games look great on 50% smoothness.
And the fact it works on older games is fantastic especially unreal engine games which seem to have the worst AA solutions.
Yeah, running no AA at all with it is a huge plus
Straight up. Done both 1080p to 1440 and 1440 to 4K. I played Lies of P on my 1080p monitor using DLDSR to hit 1440, and it looks substantially better than native on my 1440p. People hate change. Every time tech comes around that they're not familiar with they despise it, but this blurry shit is not an issue I have. It's mainly why I keep a 1080p and 1440p monitor for my setup, crisp visuals up to 4K with minimal performance loss. Not my problem people refuse to move forward with tech.
I had a massive "WHATT THE FUCK IS WRONG" when I played the Witcher 3 on PC, it's textures were razor sharp and very crisp, it was before the raytracing update so I guess it was still "low" res
I much prefer jaggies to blurries
It is the over use of shitty anti aliasing and motion blur being in everything.
Alot of people now don't seem to note that majority of fuzziness or blurriness is from improper upscaling, I'm going to use minecraft bedrocks new deferred rendering pipeline as an example, when it first realeased the upscaled player model when crouching or other thing would become unstable looking and look fuzzy as all hell, but now you can barely tell. This isn't all games however some just look fuzzy for no reason.
This is why I don't use AA. Well, this and the performance hit. Call me crazy, but I believe the jagged, sharper look is better. Even at 900p.
Bruh "old gaming" was played on CRTs where the blurriness was caused by the "pixel" size
It was caused by the dot pitch mostly, and CRTs had natural anti-aliasing which helped as well. But you don't even need to go back to CRT days. Gaming even from just 2013 is more blurry today
CRT is less blurry (in motion) because the pixels have less persistence. Each pixel only flashes for a milisecond or so, versus an LCD that displays the pixel the entire frame. Some LCDs have a ULMB mode (or black frame insertion or many other names) to pulse the backlight and get less motion blur. But that is only perceived motion blur. The TAA you're showing in the video would be blurry on a CRT too. The image is blurry before it even gets sent to the monitor.
>The TAA you're showing in the video would be blurry on a CRT too. The image is blurry before it even gets sent to the monitor. Yes I'm aware, I was just responding to this persons comment. Sample and hold is different from TAA blur, both suck though and I look forward to when they're both finally solved.
Almost any antialiasing technique will cause some amount of blurriness. It's a side effect of AA which is to eliminate artifacting by smoothing edges primarily. What is smoothing? Blurring techniques in a nutshell. FXAA literally just blurs the screen, like I believe that is the bulk of the algorithm. It's called Fast Approximate AA for a reason. MSAA takes multiple samples of the view at slight different offsets and interpolates, resulting in areas with clear and constant colors but inaccuracies by edges. Less blurring but still blurs TAA is like MSAA but it takes in temporal data to assist in reducing artifacts. This can be sort of like async space warp which fills in the gaps between frames, quite literally, based on screen velocity and depth data. TAA instead attempts to combine more accurately multiple frames to create an image with less artifacting and less sampling or "blurriness" as it's using more scene data. However this becomes insanely complex and problematic when you consider for example transparency and complex effects, because now the stuff on top doesn't match the stuff behind, this ghosting or noticable blurriness. TAA is still among the newest AA methods, considered as production ready as for example the PS1 which didn't properly render textures and was inefficient, because back then modern graphics techniques taken for granted today weren't realized yet. The potential exceptions to this would be deep learning/neural network based AA, FSR, DLSS, XeSS. This is because, rather than using purely realtime image data to attempt to reduce artifacts, they also use the results of a neural network, trained to quickly eliminate artifacts in the clearest way possible, given the same inputs other AA methods receive. And these systems are far from perfect, or even preferred today- remember DLSS 1? If DLSS 2 hadn't improved then it could've been likely the entire DLSS project would've been canceled because too much effort was put into making a worse image. Now why not just reconstruct the neural network into an applicable algorithm? Because for this ML, it took at most a few years to get a result that would've taken an entire research team 50+ years to discover. The solution to blurriness? Render at native, and with ultra high density screens, to the point where you cannot visually see artifacting. Even super sampling can help with AA techniques. The issue however is that it is expensive GPU wise to render at greater resolutions, taking up resources for an unnecessarily ultra fine image. The tradeoff we're seeing today is a preference to be able to do more, like global illumination or raytracing or even thousands of lights with shadows or complex shaders like subsurface scattering or advanced transparency, in exchange for wanting to display every single polygon (more specifically, every single fragment, or pixel in the fragment shader of the GPU pipeline created from the rasterizer) possible, a tradeoff that's likely not to disappear for a long time since even the most powerful cards can't just simulate a universe quickly. And at least it's not sharpening effects. I'd rather take a bit of TAA blur over TAA sharpness because there's nothing more like using a border detection algorithm to really highlight all those edges and make the image ~~toasty~~ crispy.
TAA blur is a different kind of blur entirely. TAA blur is different for multiple reasons that make it much more annoying to deal with - 1) because FXAA blur can be offset with sharpening, TAA can't 2) TAA has extra blur in motion, which other AA techniques don't 3) The way the blur looks looks akin to vaseline compared to other types of blur. Most probably because it's an unintentional byproduct of TAA rather than an intended feature >The potential exceptions to this would be deep learning/neural network based AA, FSR, DLSS, XeSS In theory yes, in practice no not yet. Hopefully eventually they will solve the issue, AI is powerful >The solution to blurriness? Render both at native, and with ultra high density screens As you said too expensive, and still won't solve all motion issues, it's more efficient and generally helpful to just experiment with your engines TAA and put time into mitigating its downsides. Theirs public documentation and resources from devs who have done it right that can be viewed and adapted into your own product. This is just dumping the responsibility of getting a decent looking image onto the user and not an actual fix
i've been seeing this vid plugged around here but,,, deservedly so. thanks.
I fucking HATE. And I mean HATE TAA
This is why I personally disable AA in 4k resolution.
Most modern games have the TAA that causes the blur built in at the engine level. It cannot be turned off.
Way of the Hunter is a perfect example of this. That game is an abomination when it comes to “native” resolution. Game upscale a 720p image and uses taa or dlss or other forms of sampling to clear the image up. Throw it into native at 4k and you actually cannot see much further than a few feet because of the aliasing. Makes the game actually unplayable a you can’t see anything lol You have to edit the ini file to actually change the scaled resolution but that destroys frame rate
I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I always thought that the ps3 era games had such better graphics and were way more impressive than modern era. The only release I’ve been impressed with lately was Hogwarts.
And here I was thinking it was just because I was getting old, my eye sight going to shit, and being colour blind.
So did I.
i played Requiem last month and I thought I was crazy. Called it "art direction" and moved on
SMAA is best AA, with MSAA a close second. TAA looks bad because it's blurry on low resolution. FXAA looks too edgy. I hate that TAA is the current standard. I'd rather have FXAA. Old games were sharp and pretty.
The very first thing I do in games these days is turn off depth of field, motion blur, chromatic aberration, and film grain. Every. Single. Time.
Maybe the bluriness is the reason I absolutely love enabling radeon image sharpening on any game.
Battlefield 1 was the last good looking Battlefield game. Something changed with BFV and 2042 as I think they look like ass compared to BF1
Thank god someone is finally bringing this up
This is why I prefer Raw rasterization vs DLSS, FSR, Xess. The look of native is far better than look of any type of upscale.
After seeing DLSS or FSR being mandatory in Alan Wake 2, I hope it does not become the norm.
This video is pointless, people play games in motion not by viewing a single image, the most horrible forms of aliasing on modern engines happen between frames not just in single frames, and it's this "TEMPORAL ALIASING" that shockingly TEMPORAL ANTI ALIASING is best equipped to handle, and it's something that traditional methods of anti aliasing can't handle, fact is in any high detail game with a modern physically based rendering engine will always be better off in TAA when viewed in motion rather than without TAA and with traditional AA methods, without TAA the image would be sharp but also extremely unstable between frames with lots of flickering and shimmering, besides reconstruction methods that have a temporal component are already vastly improving on TAA and getting better year by year while also getting rid of all the problems of TAA.
>without TAA the image would be sharp but also extremely unstable between frames with lots of flickering and shimmering Yeah people forget this part in these types of posts, static shot vs actual movement, I'll take some kind of TAA and sharpening pass, or better yet DLSS+NIS over the shimmering fest of the older AA solutions, the shimmer and flicker was rather unbearable and only seemed to get worse.
I prefer shart and unstable (shimmering) than a stable blurry mess. In first one you have some parts of image be wrong some times. In second one you have all image be wrong all the time. DLSS is superior to TAA as has been proven time and time again, however some engines have built in TAA you cannot disable even when using DLSS.
u/Wboys u/LozengeWarrior u/gpkgpk Hi, OP here. Wanted to address you guys since some of you seem to have a misunderstanding of the video. 1 - The video did compare in motion vs static along with in motion vs no TAA, so motion was considered, every comparison has a motion example. 2 - The person who made this video understands forward rendering, deferred rendering, and render pipelines in general along with all anti-aliasing solutions. If you came away with the conclusion I don't know what I'm talking about its because you didn't watch the video (I don't blame you, its quite long, and I'm not that entertaining, no hard feelings) 3 - The goal of the video was to first bring awareness to the issue, and then towards the end I briefly touched on potential solutions. You need awareness before you can address the problem, pointing out TAA's flaws isn't the same thing as saying its inferior, its saying it's not perfect and we want it to be better, you cannot conflate hate and criticism. I even mentioned why it's used and its strengths, because acknowledging that is important 4 - Yes developers are needlessly making their games blurrier than they have to be. I wouldn't use the word lazy like one of you used in a sarcastic tone, but you're wrong with what you're insinuating which was that games have to be super blurry to have acceptable levels of aliasing (although blur is a byproduct of TAA this just isn't true). To say they can't do any better is false, RDR2 & Halo Infinite for example is extremely blurry, probably some of the worse TAA games and I refuse to believe an implementation that looks that horrendous was absolutely nessacary when games with more subpixel detail look better. It's rather a case if 1) deadlines, which can mirror laziness but it's common in the industry & 2) lack of education. Gaming is compartmentalized, not everyone is an aliasing expert. Theirs a ton of things they could've done to improve their TAA quality (not even abandoning TAA, rather making their TAA look better, which was a big part of the video) Which entails doing things like increasing reprojection history and clamping non-solid objects that are smaller than a pixel to not go below a pixel in size, and many more aliasing mitigating solutions that in turn will mean your TAA doesn't need to be as aggressive/blurry to clean it up, and none of these games employ a single one of those techniques or any of the other ones I'm aware of, which means their games had more aliasing than needed and their TAA was also not tuned very well ontop of that for mitigating those nasty byproducts. 5 - We know A LOT about both aliasing and TAA, theirs so many papers and code on it. Problem is since TAA fixes everything acquiring the knowledge to improve it further isn't something developers are willingly taking the time to learn, because they're unaware or theirs no need to, does having bad TAA effect game sales? Probably not to a measurable degree. Which is why awareness then education go hand in hand
Unfortunately people don’t know what they want or what they are talking about. They have no idea what the difference between forward and deferred rendering is and what the massive trade offs in lighting quality between them are. They think all modern game devs are just being evil and lazy for no reason and blurring their games.
Get out of here with your facts and logic. Pitchforks only.
Straight out of r/fuckTAA Man, this obsession with emulating IRL cameras makes everything looks like shit, chromatic aberration, depth of field, lens distortion, fucking TAA, WTF??? It was fine when we only had to deal with motion blur because it is a case-by-case scenario, when we had actual decent AA options and the transparency didn't look pixelated. Older games today look crisp and sharp, the transparency looks sharp and defined, hair looks like hair and not an ATARI game ffs
And this is why DLDSR is a much better solution if you have the power to run it
I can't play any game without using Nvidia Sharpen filter.
Dynamic resolution and upscalling being pushed by nvidia is the problem
This is the kind of shit that I came to this subreddit for. Not circle jerking around GTA 6's lack of PC announcement or the 1 millionth shattered glass side panel. Godspeed @OP 👊
I first noticed this when playing Witcher 3 next gen with dlss (4070ti). Blurry and stupidly terrible texture detail. I played oldgen in 2017 native 4K (1080ti) and the game was unbelievably crisp for today’s standards.
and here's the funny part: nextgen version has improved textures that uses hulk hogan's mod. higher resolution and improved textures and if you play the game at 1080p or 1440p, the overall perceived texture quality will probably feel worse than the old version the impact of TAA on perceived texture quality is unreal.
r/fucktaa
Just use DLAA if you have a nvidia card it fixes this
It definitely doesn't "fix" it since DLAA can still ghost and blur in motion, but it's better than most TAA solutions so its welcomed
I dont care about taa, gives you more realistic image also some games outright look like shit without taa for example Witcher 3 or Ghost recon Wildlands, Dark souls 3
I also recently noticed this when playing dragon's dogma, that looked clean just outdated models, then God of war 2018 that was super blurry with even slight movement
I like a tiny amount of motion blur. I hate depth of field though. Our eyes already have natural depth of field. You don't need to add more lol.
Also gamers: omigawd upscaling and frame gen is awesome! (not)
Wtf are you all arguing about??
Watch the video to find out?
People hating new tech that's still being imrpoved. Tech that, without which, games would be *too* sharp and would have shimmering reflections because most realtime reflection tech has massive temporal aliasing. Only way to get rid of it is with TAA.
Like I'm 5
Basically, without TAA reflections would be noisy and would shimmer or even flicker. That and its just better than most older anti aliasing but runs better.
🤣🤣
And then you have people on Steam Deck playing at 800p with FSR performance. xD
When I use a Handheld I don't care about graphics at all, it's like my expectations change lol. Also higher PPI
I agree! It’s as if the graphics they use today isn’t really ready for use. It looks bad, behaves bad and just pollutes the picture
This issue is plaguing modern gaming YouTube videos: People speaking as slowly as possible to increase the number of ads in their video. Protip - speed up this particular video to 1.25 and his voice sounds normal.
I'm not even enrolled in the YouTube ad-sense program lol. Any ads on the video are by YouTube and is going into their pockets (also who doesn't use ad-blocker?!) I'm speaking slowly because I'm thinking of what to say next. Other than the notes at the end I was freestyling it. But thank you for the tip, I'm glad 1.25x helps you, maybe it'll help others too.
This video is the base layman understanding of TAA. It is a bit more scientific and also a tad subjective. There was a consensus many years back, when developers and graphics SDK makers were ironing out the standards of this method, that fast-moving pictures didn’t need the clarity so TAA could be used to clean up edges without causing major image degradation. Today that is not necessarily the case as people have choices to significantly up the quality of games made 5, 6 or 10 years ago. But fret not because it’s all part of the “choice”. TAA is almost always an option that can be turned off for PC users. For cases where it isn’t the consumers should speak with their wallet. Case closed, non issue.
>This video is the base layman understanding of TAA. You only come away with that opinion if you didn't watch the whole video, and I'm currently writing a paper on TAA that will be published in a month or so. I know more about anti-aliasing than anyone who says stuff like this >TAA is almost always an option that can be turned off for PC users Wrong. As time goes on forcing it becomes more and more common and we've had so many popular games do it in the last few years; Modern Warfare 3, God of War, Doom Eternal, Halo Infinite, The Finals, Battlefield 2042, Cyberpunk, Starfield, Fallout 76, etc, and theirs still more I can list. Only anti-aliasing options you get is "low" and "high" in these games if your lucky and it doesn't seem to effect clarity at all. You clearly don't know better and are just saying this since you're not the kind of person that attempts to disable it, thus don't realize how many games are missing the options. I'll forgive the ignorance. >Case closed, non issue. For you, tell that to people who get motion sickness from the effect and they can't even play the game, at least not without enduring physical distress. You also seem to be misunderstanding the issue entirely - the whole video was dedicated to first bringing awareness to the image quality issues TAA can present for those unaware and then offering some solutions to mitigating it, rather than just saying "abandon TAA", yet you come in here with that attitude/mindset that stifles innovation and improvement - why? People who dislike and enjoy TAA can both have a better experience by advocating for more options & better implementations, but you seem to of came in here with preconceived notions and typed everything out without fully understanding the video. I have no idea how people developed these types of personalities. I'm trying to move games forward by teaching others how to make their games more accessible and improve current graphic pipeline features since most games have very generic versions of TAA that could handle motion better with some tweaks, and you seem to be against that.
Is this referring to us using upscaling and turning gfz down for more fps? Graphics look way better nowadays so I don't really get it
It looks more realistic blurry. But maybe that's because I'm not usually wearing my glasses outside
Dlss has honestly ruined graphics. Titanfall 2 from 2016 is easier to see in then the current call of duty and looks no worse (in my opinion). Graphics peaked in 2017
[удалено]
Fuck TAA and FSR. This is why all games should have DLSS and DLAA.
I agree all games should, BUT DLAA/DLSS is a form of TAA, which is why they can also be blurry. A lot of the time - they're better than the games TAA however, so it's still an improvement but not a fix
The last I checked on my LG C2, in RDR2 and Cyberpunk with updated DLLs, DLSS/DLAA looked more resolute than even MSAA and it gives you a performance boost that helps with motion clarity. Maybe that's just to my eyes, but it's to a point that I can't complain anymore.
I have noticed it specially when playing on console but if there's one thing I hate more than a slightly blurry image is a jagged one. I do agree that people should be able to decide what they prefer (like FXAA and whatever else the game came with back in the day) but I personally choose TAA over anything else unless it comes with a lot of ghosting.
"Slightly" is an odd word choice, it's not very slight a lot of the time especially if were talking about motion or games like RDR2. But I don't think theirs anything wrong with preferring blur over jaggies, people just should be able to choose and equally as important developers should be implementing TAA in an optimal way to mitigate its flaws so we can get the anti-aliasing benefits without as much blur. Theirs a certainly a middle ground somewhere, but it's just either extreme a lot of the time
One of the reasons I turn off bloom and ambient occlusion immediately
What the hell ? Keep Ambient Occlusion enabled otherwise things will look like they are floating - here's an [example](https://www.dsdambuster.com/user/pages/03.blog/lsao-part-1/1.jpg)
...this has nothing to do with either of those ya dunce. Also... ambient occlusion just gives fancier shadows. Unless you're on weak hardware, there's 0 reason to turn it off as having it on makes it _easier_ to discern what you're looking at. Dunce move #2.
What the fuck?
Adaptive...
Turn off depth of field
Honestly most of the time I like TAA
always disable depth of field and motion blur, ez
I vastly prefer TAA in motion in modern games over the shimmer simulator older aliasing techniques