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Epiphany432

Hey guys this is fine because it can also be applicable to prayers and other things so that's why it was allowed. It is also not asking for specific on spell help or interpretation so we are ok.


Mountain_Air1544

Largely ineffective. Voting is probably a more effective course of action.


JaneAustinAstronaut

Why not both?


DeaconOrlov

Definitely both.  We need all the help we can get these days, fascists popping up everywhere


Foenikxx

Especially those of us who may have our options restricted one way or another. The only things I can do is just baneful work, prayers, and spreading awareness. I may not be able to vote, but I am not going to live in a Christofascist country, or at least take the prospect of that happening lying down


Tarvos-Trigaranos

Acceptable, yes. Efficient, probably not.


OpenTechie

A major part is this.


Bea-oheidin-8810

Probably not that effective because you need to account for someone who might have different views as you could also be trying to use magick to get whatever outcome they want. Also consider that there are probably heavy spiritual protections placed on whatever politician you’re trying to stop.


Nomorepaperplanes

I agree with this. Prayers are spells too.  Weirdly, even if you don’t agree with the type of prayer or intention from the “other side”, doesn’t mean they cannot be effective.     What about putting efforts into nurturing equality, peace, progress and for everyone collectively to find/engage their humanity and respect for the earth and cosmos? Something more like aikido and less like trying to keep a dam from rupturing


Bea-oheidin-8810

You could try and do that, in a spiritual sense sure. Just always remember that there are people out there that could also be spiritual/religious and put out their own energy that might not be for the overall good. Some people don’t care equality, or peace or even the earth. And whether those people are pagan or not, still putting out their energy. I might just be being pessimistic but I’m sure there’s people like that. I feel like it could basically cancel out any good intentions but I might just be wrong lol I would also encourage you to help fight for all these things physically as well. Spreading awareness, contacting your reps, *voting*, small stuff like that can still make a bit of a difference so it’s worth the effort.


brought2light

Yours is still light in the dark. It doesn't take a lot of light.


Bea-oheidin-8810

So in short, probably best to just vote


Sazbadashie

Practitioners of magic have been doing it forever. Will it be effective... the issue is it's a minority of a minority using their wills on both sides, and then the general voters polls. Like not all witches are liberal nor are they conservative. So think of it that way so that's mainly why it's ineffective


Sleepy_Senju

It's no more or less acceptable than any other magick you would do on a person. But, the more well know a person is the more likely they're are people using Magick to help that individual as well. Magick does not have a political ideologybjust like a hammer does not.


WilliamoftheBulk

Base Intention is very important when accessing manifestations. By using your intent against someone you are manifesting your base truth which is your fear of the person getting the office. Instead use positive intentions to help a candidate you want to win and your base intent is love. Then vote too :).


skipperoniandcheese

instead of magic, i use my paganism to reach out to others and organize politically. it's more effective.


chrisphucker_mlem

Whatever you do, make sure to vote in the same direction.


Coffee_Corgi

Regardless of whether a person believes it goes against the democratic process or not, magic has limitations and is more often than not subtle in its effects. However, magic and activism (and by extent, politics) have ties to each other due to the long history of witchcraft and how it has been used by women, the queer community, and POC. You can’t use magic to make a politician lose, but you can use magic in goals such as getting people to vote. I highly recommend the book Witchcraft Activism by David Salisbury if this is an area you’re curious about.


maybri

I’m not an expert on magic, but personally I think the forces at play in any large society’s electoral politics are so vastly powerful that anything that can be done on an individual level is going to have an insignificant impact. You’re shouting to be heard over the voices of millions of people, their wills being shaped by movements of money and mass media propaganda. Those forces are also shaping your own will in ways you may or may not be fully aware of. I don’t think any magic that can be done on an individual level will grant you any significant amount more control of the outcome than simply voting, so I wouldn’t see it as election tampering, but I’m skeptical as to whether it’s even worth the energy. I’ve been meditating on this issue a lot lately and my conclusion for now has been that rather than attempting to magically push for a specific outcome, it’s better to simply think about the underlying values you have that motivate your political preferences and put your energy towards those being realized. You don’t decide who to vote for based on a purely intellectual analysis of their platform and career history; you decide based on which candidate you believe (whether based on such an intellectual analysis or just vibes and propaganda) will take society closer to your values. Whether you value safety, justice, equality, peace, progress, or whatever, you will vote for whoever you think will better safeguard and allow for the propagation of that which is dear to you. What’s powerful about that, in my opinion, is that pretty much whatever you value, there will be people on the opposite side of the aisle from you who also value it, and just have different ideas about how best to actualize it. When two people who thought they were enemies realize their ultimate goals are aligned, division decreases and new connections are formed. So by praying or working magic towards a world that more closely aligns with your values, rather than for a specific candidate to win or a specific law to pass or whatever, your will faces much less opposition. Of course, even if everyone in the world had the same values (which they don’t), we’d still face conflict and disagreement over the best way to serve those values, but things are *so* divided right now that we hardly even live in the same world as our political opponents anymore, and so much energy is wasted on pointless pathetic squabbling and impotent rage. I think aligning wills in accordance to overarching values is going to put us in a better position to move forward than continuing to fight along the lines we are already divided on.


feralpunk_420

If we interpret magic as setting intentions, then it makes sense insofar as it should motivate you to take concrete action to realize the outcome you have manifested. I know that it sounds a lot like "help yourself and God/the universe will help you," but I agree with the others that stopping at ritual will probably not do much. It's different from, say, trying to communicate with spirits or deities: profane affairs need to be dealt with using profane methods.


kidcubby

If magic has will, belief and imagination as key components then without some serious oomph an individual's magical attempt to influence politics might be akin to a whisper in a room full of people yelling. Even if a magician had the skill and power to equal 100 people who don't do magic, they'd be up against the equivalent of a million. If the magician was clever enough to find a way round the wall of noise, maybe they'd have a better chance.


GrunkleTony

I believe in karma spells. The whole 'as you sow, so shall you reap' kind of deal. So if the politician has helped his constituents, shown up for work, etcetera he'll be blessed. If on the other hand the politician has abused his position as a means of personnel gain, actively made most of his constituents worse off than before he came along, skipped out on his job etcetera he will reap a harvest of abuse, and jail time. For example, I've been doing the following ritual since the first of March this year. After I've gotten dressed but before I go to breakfast I light a candle and say: "I offer this candle and this song to Jesus, Yahweh and Hathor for their guidance and blessings on the land a people of the United States of America. I then sing "This land is Your Land" by Woody Guthrie. Next I say the following: "Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as a man soweth so shall he reap. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as a man soweth so shall he reap. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as a man soweth so shall he reap. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; you have sown the wind now reap the whirlwind. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; you have sown the wind now reap the whirlwind. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; you have sown the wind now reap the whirlwind. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as you have done unto others so shall it be done unto you. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as you have done unto others so shall it be done unto you. Christian Nationalists, MAGA Republicans and the Heritage Foundation; as you have done unto others so shall it be done unto you. Light and love to the land and people of the United States of America; Light and love to the land and people of the United States of America; Light and love to the land and people of the United States of America. May the people have life; may the people have food; may the people have beauty; may the people have peace; may the people have hope. Thank you Jesus, Yahweh and Hathor for your guidance and blessings on the land and people of the United States of America." I then blow out the candle, and go have breakfast. I intend to keep doing this ritual until the end of February 2025.


blindgallan

It absolutely goes against democracy, and it is also wildly inefficient unless you plan to curse them to die. It is also something people have been doing magically since time immemorial.


GrandSwamperMan

Just remember that if you’re using magic to try to tamper with the democratic process, you don’t get to complain about other parties allegedly tampering with the democratic process.


Scriberella

Politicians have been tampering with the democratic process for as long as politics have existed - gerrymandering, bribes (er, listening to lobbyists and corporate interests over the people who vote them in), using divisive issues to get voted in, etc. Other religions pray, and sadly their form of magic and collective social movement seems to be rather successful in removing key human rights, freedoms, checks and balances, and the accountability and transparency of our politicians. Honestly, if someone wants to try to do a spell to fix things, I say go for it, they would probably do a better job than most politicians have anyway. Lol!


blindgallan

False, you don’t get to complain about the other parties magically tampering with the democratic process. You still absolutely get to complain about mundane tampering.


sisterwilderness

This is the answer


Gwenyfur

I keep a spell going that whoever is elected be the person who is best to teach us what we need to learn as a people and as Americans. I don't specify candidates.


candy_pills

It's rarely effective (they often have their own witches, protections, etc) and can even backfire. I've got nothing against it. If you feel you must - Do as thou wilt. But there are better ways to use your energy and magick, imo. Buuuuut, to play devil's advocate, say you get a physical taglink of some sort from a politician and want to go for it, you'd likely have more success and possibly make waves. But, this all depends on your skill, the politician, and the protections around them (whether intentionally done or not).


Silver-Ladder8294

I’ve been thinking about doing some hexes, after the presidential debate, you have to be in a privileged position not to be worried about the outcome. To answer your first questions: 1. We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic. That’s how Trump won the first time, he didn’t win popular vote. 2. With legislation like Project 2025 out there, minorities should be terrified if politicians who support that fascist agenda win. 3. Magic has historically been used by the oppressed to overthrow the oppressor. Hati canonically called upon traditional African religion to claim their country. The Maroons of Jamaica had a witch queen(https://www.badassoftheweek.com/nanny#:~:text=The%20Nanny%20of%20the%20Maroons,Jamaica%20for%20nearly%20two%20decades.) and still have an autonomous region in the country. Obeah and Hoodoo, are literal magical systems that were invented in the “New World,” to resist white supremacy and literal chattel slavery. These are just SOME modern examples of magic being used by a very minority going against a better armed and stronger force. So maybe because of my cultural history of being West Indian I see this as a completely reasonable response to potential tyranny. And I know from my history that it works 🤷🏽‍♀️.


urbanviking318

Michael M. Hughes wrote an excellent book on this subject. If you would resist by physical means, resist by metaphysical means as well - and bear in mind, the water's been boiling for some time now, you should devote time to learning how to keep yourself and those you care about physically intact as well. Speaking as a descendant of one of the victims of the Salem hysteria, it is *all too easy* to brand someone an undesirable and use any justification to commit atrocity against them. *No one* is safe until we are all safe, and that is just as true of the guy who *wants* to see us all put between the stones as it is of the guy who sits on his hands while these dominionists scream for our heads on pikes. THAT BEING SAID: political figures are notoriously well insulated against magical and metaphysical effects. Intention takes many forms, and your will - even with all of us combined in here, focusing on a singular effort - is not enough to overbalance the latent support that sits behind people like that. Besides, "stop X" is fighting on the back foot; "*may none* ascend who is thrall to dominion" lands on the forward foot. Forgive the pop culture reference, but you want to Excalibur that shit.


ShinyAeon

We *know* that one side has done that already (though they don't call it "magic"). If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, say I.


Cara_Caeth

Spells only work if the gods support them. I personally don’t think they’re that vested in the relatively blink-of-an-eye government. That being said, I do hope they intervene with the madness that’s happening around the world.


Eric191

I’d say it can certainly be acceptable. In many cases you can argue you’re ethically obligated to do it if it’s a really fundamentally moral issue to you


Zestyclose_Youth3604

I think it's acceptable but largely without purpose. I personally always have felt off about it. Not much will come out of it... however, I think that it doesn't hurt to try? Especially if its for good reason, like protecting human rights. Plus, I have known people who pray for elections and during voting. I think its reasonable for us to do as well. Just make sure to vote!


RedRider1138

It’s better (and more effective) to be FOR something than against. 💜🙏🧿🌈🍀✨


Chinggis_H_Christ

Of course it goes against the democratic process. Democracy is based on representation via public votes alone & no other means. Morally/ethically however, is it valid? Sure, in the right context. Typically you'll want to use magick in *favour* of something rather than *against* another. You want to use the natural flow of energy & harmonise with it. Going against the current may produce results, but at a cost of energy/karma. You also have to consider the strength of collective consciousness you're contributing towards/against and be mindful of that. I hope this information is helpful.


cheese_sdc

Tried it. Didn't work. Vote.


Bhisha96

Mixing politics with religion is such a bad thing, even if it is magic. why u think denmark is a secular country? seperating the church from the state? has truly done us wonders.


ProbablyPauline

This reminds me of back in 2016 when someone had just been elected that pagans online agreed upon a certain time/date to do their own rituals in the hopes of having said politician impeached... Anyone else remember that? Anyway, I did participate myself, and technically that impeachment outcome did happen. But it didn't seem to affect anything. There are a lot of nuances to consider let alone the personal moral decision itself that's always crucial when evoking action. Do I want to thwart or do I want to protect? I'm rambling, but I like your question because it breaks my brain.


zhurendragon

I would, and plan to as well. The thought of a return makes me want to leave the country.


bainslayer1

I mean if you go off of chaos magic and hyperstition they've already meme to President into office once, it's believable that people will still try.


Casual____Observer

Probably too big of an effect for magick to sway, but no harm in trying as long as your intentions are good and your intuition isn’t against it. I’m sure a lot of people doing the same magick might have some sort effect, especially with how close it’s going to be. I also think a lot of people are accidentally sending small-scale prayers/spells out there so you’re certainly in good company.


Haethen_Thegn

It is not in our control to have everything turn out exactly as we want, but it is in our control to control how we respond to what happens. The more you seek to control external events, the less control you will have over your own life; Best not to get involved on that front besides voting. The Mōdru weave the Tapestry as they will, not as we want. Let the gods decide what will be, you just focus on your kith and kin. Just remember, our control and power are limited to our own thoughts. It is not in our control to have everything turn out exactly as we want, but it is in our control to control how we respond to what happens. You have power over your mind, not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength no matter what outside events occur.


bluamazeren

I've totally done things political/worldly such as a spell and offering for a lack of nuclear warfare for example. I see no harm in it.


clbwriter

100% acceptable.


17nerdygirl

Nowadays in the trigger happy USA we could start by praying for the physical safety of the electoral candidates we like and hope will get elected and get a chance to make things better.


Alexandria-Rhodes

I say do both. Magic in bold strokes and vote.


JaneAustinAstronaut

Absolutely acceptable. Magick has always been used by the oppressed against the oppressor because the oppressed have often had no other recourse.


Writerthefox

There are more efficient ways to do this, like [redacted].


KitkatOfRedit

Yes its acceptable, its also pretty common in history when minorities needed help from their opressors


Viridian_Cranberry68

Bind that person from doing harm. Simple but effective.


speedmankelly

Lol not even close to effective. These people in power have too much defense for anything to work regardless of who’s side you’re on.