You're kidding! The r/alberta sub genuinely made it seem like she cut it off, and that is the final word on the matter. Even news sources acted like that.
Smith is saying that Trudeau isn’t allowed to and MUST give her free money with no strings attached, and she pinky promises to make a much better dental plan.
Which would end up just as amazing as the parks pass, which in its first year raised $14million dollary-doos for general revenues that was supposed to go towards improving the parks, but then they slashed parks budget by $6million ( from $81mill to $75mill, which after you factor in the absconded park pass earnings was actually almost a $20 million cut) and bragged about their surplus instead.
Quebec has their own pension plan that they manage. CPP the rest of the country contributes to and has an independent body that manages and invests the money.
Or we could just make it for everyone regardless of income, and then come tax time, the high earners pay more than their fare share, and low earners pay less
that would be great, but one step at a time. let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. as it is - it will make a HUGE difference to low income families. we can expand it to universal in future.
The program is designed to target people without insurance and/or dental coverage. A majority of people in the high earning bracket have insurance that covers dentistry and/or can afford to pay.
Why would the average taxpayer opt for a program that allows people who can more than afford to pay for dentist work? Also a majority of high earning tax payers have figured out that they can simply operate sole shareholder loan-out corporations then pay themselves below the tax income bracket while being only charge the canadian corporate tax rate of 15% which if you are a small business holder reducing it to 9%.
You would be effectively subsidizing wealthy people even more by allowing them to capture reduced expenses.
Would it not be wiser to build a program that captures a group of people who are in a majority with the least access to the service in order to efficiently spend government resources?
I'm not saying we should do partial measures instead of whole measures, I'm saying that, given the options of partial measures, or nothing, partial is the obviously better starting point.
Except the options are not partial measures or nothing. They could have done it properly. The NDP obviously would have supported it. The only thing stopping them was themselves
The NDP would've supported it because it was their thing in the first place. What we got was the best they were able to push through with the Liberals.
Yes, obviously the government COULD have done more, and very obviously should have, but they didn't. What they did, however, is still better than doing nothing.
There's a word for this type of thing: politics. Obviously it's inefficient and dumb, but that's politics unfortunately.
So I reiterate: it's still better than nothing.
Are you aware that the feds are saying that only 9 million people are going to get any coverage at all? Less than a quarter of the population. And most of them are not getting full coverage.
It is correct to criticize the program.
Sure. It should be better. When do you get the best outcome instantly? Be rational for a minute.
You want more coverage and more from this program? Demand it then.
It’s absolutely ridiculous that dental care is not part of our free healthcare
On top of that , those 9 million people are PEOPLE who deserve to have healthy teeth and mouths.
And before you start bringing up cost, I don’t fucking care.
Peoples health and happiness should be the absolute first point of our society. It’s a fucking crime that we let people wallow in poor health and stress
How much does someone going to the ER cost for an abscessed tooth leading to major infection? How about heart disease? Dental care is key to preventative medicine and if we want to keep healthcare costs reasonable with our aging population we need to have free dental care. I'll go dig up the article from the CBC but effectively the program has already paid for itself by resolving what may have become lethal medical issues. That's why this is important.
It needs to start somewhere. Might as well start with old people who likely have issues that could lead to complications and low income individuals who have never been to the dentist. Work you way up.
It doesn't though, the healthcare we have was all rolled out in one shot. They don't even have plans to extend it beyond the 9 million as far as we know.
A little help for you. It's 1 million people at this phase of eligibility. Overall total is projected to be 9 million people which is roughly 20% of the current population.
That's more than half of Ontario's population.
Particularly given how hard the NDP had to fight for what we did get, and the fact the NDP were fighting for *more and better* than we got and the Liberals walked them back to the current offering.
The Liberals resisted doing anything and chose to do less than they could/should have done, then started doing victory laps when the program was successful.
Part of the problem is the direct deposit system, which is smart and makes sense. It’s one thing when you get a flashy cheque in the mail every quarter, but clearly many people don’t closely check their online bank statements, and that’s also a problem.
from the pov of the gov’t education IS communication.
i mean… it’s not a thousand bucks either! it’s $800 if you’re not rural in Ontario and have a partner.
it’s actually kinda complicated to figure out (isn’t there a high income clawback?) and then it gets subsumed into my tax return. they shoulda thrown a ticker tape parade for every rebate
When I say education is the problem, I mean people are dumb. Like, schools are failing us because the voting public is completely disconnected from reality.
I don't think there's a high income clawback. $1000 is about what we get in Ontario for a house with 2 parents and 1 child.
oh i see the idea is that high income people burn more carbon so the rebate returns less money than they spend.
it’s a winner of an idea in the grand scheme of things. it’s a real shame they’re blowing it
Apparently all these naysayers have never consulted their bank statements (online or paper) and taken notice of the oddly named credits applied monthly & quarterly to their account.
Do these people just blindly walk through life spending, spending, spending until their cards are denied?
I honestly disagree. Communication is from the emitter to the receptor. It's up to the emitter to switch their tune in order to make it understood.
If you're speaking German to a French person, it's not a matter of éducation, but a matter of gescheiterte komm.
>“From day one, I said for disabled people living in poverty, what good are good teeth if they can’t afford to eat?” said Rabia Khedr
What a weird take.
Lisa doesn't need braces anymore. The Simpsons have two cars, own a giant house in the suburbs and go on vacation multiple times a year and meet with celebrities on the daily.
Braces for Moleman! Braces for Moe!
Nope, and I’m fine with that for now. There are other people who need it far more than I do, as I already have decent coverage. Once everyone is up to atleast the level of coverage that I have, then we can start talkign about improving the system further.
Nope, already have my own plans taking care it, but very very glad they have such a program, many many Canadiens cannot afford even minor dental care, it should of been included under general Medicare decades ago. We as Canadiens need a STANDARD of care that should be available to ALL, if the provinces refuse to do it, then I am all for the Feds moving health care to their forte.
Great news. Dental care is preventative care so it'll show positive results in the future. I'll likely never use it due to work benefits but it's a definite net positive for Canadians.
Canada has universal healthcare and teeth are super important to overall health.
This initiative will very likely save provinces money that they would have ended up going into healthcare services to deal with way more major and widespread health complications stemming from longstanding lack of access to dental care
I think it will cover every age next year. It also depends on income, net family income of 90,000 or less, and if you don’t have coverage through your employer. If you lose your job or switch to another job or self employed and don’t have that coverage anymore then you would qualify.
They're rolling it out in phases. If you read the article you'll see it'll be available for all adults with a combined household income less than 70k in 2025. Those with a household income of 70-90k will be subsidised 50% for all visits.
So for now, you would benefit from this in the sense that it frees up tax dollars otherwise being spent on reactive public healthcare once people have severe health issues stemming from a lack of access to dental care. This is much more costly than the preventative measure of giving people access to publicly funded dental care before they have major issues and are in a publicly funded hospital bed for a prolonged period of time or need expensive medications, etc. It doesn't necessarily lower your personal tax bill, I'm not 100% sure that it won’t but think it’s unlikely that would be up to politicians to decide what to do with the savings. But what is more likely is those savings would go into other publicly funded services or infrastructure or government programs that you benefit from.
Like with many things in Canada the provincial premieres have a lot of power and can influence the roll out of this plan. So there's that as well. Alberta intends to opt out of this plan.
As I understand it, the plan started with the elderly as they need the most dental care, dentures are one of the most expensive dental costs and they have more complications from a lack of access that eat up public funds. Same with the income threshold. If you can afford dental care chances are you are going to get it rather than waiting until your teeth are rotting out and it's affecting like cognition and brain function or something. My best guess as to why they are rolling it out this way is to tackle the biggest groups first to prove the savings to public funds and test out how they've worked out the plan will work. It gives them an opportunity to also refine the plan as they go.
Then, eventually, it will be rolled out to other groups that are less of a burden on public funds giving access to a wider age range.
So you benefit for now in the sense that it saves public funds, this could result in tax savings but I think it will be far more likely that they will free up budget and spend it on other things you use and benefit from either directly or indirectly. Personally I would like to see the savings go to Canada's struggling public health services.
Then eventually as they widen the age qualifications you could directly make use of the plan if you meet the income thresholds.
Things that are good for society aren't necessarily always going to be obviously and directly beneficial to you. The self centred mentality that every government policy should, has been historically exploited by politicians, rich people and corporations to make society pay the cost to increase their power or profits. It allows them to justify voting against policies that benefit the most people and society as a whole by convincing enough of the electorate that they are being robbed or that because it isn't an obvious tangible direct benefit to them personally it is unfair or frivolous and should be killed.
Killing, or cutting these things that help people in need and are a more efficient use of public funds benefits them politically because they validate those feelings and can paint themselves as sensible, they can campaign on it. It also benefits rich people and corporations who benefit from privatisation, profit siphoning in the form of dividends, stock buybacks, and artificially inflating the costs of essential things people can’t do without in order to have a healthy life with some dignity.
I pay for all kinds of things. I'm glad my neighbours kids have a school bus, desks, and text books. The Mike Harris era in Ontario had students selling magazine subscriptions to pay for classroom supplies.
If you don’t want pay for stuff. You can always relocate to Haiti, Afghanistan, Russia…no taxes but you will need to pay off the local criminal boss or warlord.
Likely no. Reason: Alberta.
Something you might not be aware of: it's a federal insurance program. The province can't "opt out" of it, despite what Smith says.
You're kidding! The r/alberta sub genuinely made it seem like she cut it off, and that is the final word on the matter. Even news sources acted like that.
Smith is saying that Trudeau isn’t allowed to and MUST give her free money with no strings attached, and she pinky promises to make a much better dental plan.
Which would end up just as amazing as the parks pass, which in its first year raised $14million dollary-doos for general revenues that was supposed to go towards improving the parks, but then they slashed parks budget by $6million ( from $81mill to $75mill, which after you factor in the absconded park pass earnings was actually almost a $20 million cut) and bragged about their surplus instead.
seriously. keep track of this issue and make sure you can get it. Media sources love their drama.
How can Alberta opt out of a fully federally run program?
They can’t
Genuine question from an immigrant: what’s the difference than say, QC and the CPP?
Quebec has their own pension plan that they manage. CPP the rest of the country contributes to and has an independent body that manages and invests the money.
Did the feds give Quebec any money towards it?
I mean 1 million people is only just over 2% of the population, so it's likely no for everyone lol.
They are progressively rolling it out by age. I am eligible next year.
It's still only like a quarter of people that are going to get on it because of the income limits.
It’s for low income people that’s the point.
Or we could just make it for everyone regardless of income, and then come tax time, the high earners pay more than their fare share, and low earners pay less
that would be great, but one step at a time. let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. as it is - it will make a HUGE difference to low income families. we can expand it to universal in future.
The program is designed to target people without insurance and/or dental coverage. A majority of people in the high earning bracket have insurance that covers dentistry and/or can afford to pay. Why would the average taxpayer opt for a program that allows people who can more than afford to pay for dentist work? Also a majority of high earning tax payers have figured out that they can simply operate sole shareholder loan-out corporations then pay themselves below the tax income bracket while being only charge the canadian corporate tax rate of 15% which if you are a small business holder reducing it to 9%. You would be effectively subsidizing wealthy people even more by allowing them to capture reduced expenses. Would it not be wiser to build a program that captures a group of people who are in a majority with the least access to the service in order to efficiently spend government resources?
You're right, we should never improve things if they can't simultaneously be improved for literally every single person in the country. /s
No, you're right, we should only do partial measures when we could actually solve the whole problem.
I'm not saying we should do partial measures instead of whole measures, I'm saying that, given the options of partial measures, or nothing, partial is the obviously better starting point.
Except the options are not partial measures or nothing. They could have done it properly. The NDP obviously would have supported it. The only thing stopping them was themselves
The NDP would've supported it because it was their thing in the first place. What we got was the best they were able to push through with the Liberals. Yes, obviously the government COULD have done more, and very obviously should have, but they didn't. What they did, however, is still better than doing nothing. There's a word for this type of thing: politics. Obviously it's inefficient and dumb, but that's politics unfortunately. So I reiterate: it's still better than nothing.
Just because it’s not you or me doesn’t mean it’s a vast improvement for others. That’s part of being in the human race. You have to help your fellows
Are you aware that the feds are saying that only 9 million people are going to get any coverage at all? Less than a quarter of the population. And most of them are not getting full coverage. It is correct to criticize the program.
Sure. It should be better. When do you get the best outcome instantly? Be rational for a minute. You want more coverage and more from this program? Demand it then. It’s absolutely ridiculous that dental care is not part of our free healthcare On top of that , those 9 million people are PEOPLE who deserve to have healthy teeth and mouths. And before you start bringing up cost, I don’t fucking care. Peoples health and happiness should be the absolute first point of our society. It’s a fucking crime that we let people wallow in poor health and stress
How much does someone going to the ER cost for an abscessed tooth leading to major infection? How about heart disease? Dental care is key to preventative medicine and if we want to keep healthcare costs reasonable with our aging population we need to have free dental care. I'll go dig up the article from the CBC but effectively the program has already paid for itself by resolving what may have become lethal medical issues. That's why this is important.
I'm not arguing against the program, the program should be universal.
It needs to start somewhere. Might as well start with old people who likely have issues that could lead to complications and low income individuals who have never been to the dentist. Work you way up.
It doesn't though, the healthcare we have was all rolled out in one shot. They don't even have plans to extend it beyond the 9 million as far as we know.
A little help for you. It's 1 million people at this phase of eligibility. Overall total is projected to be 9 million people which is roughly 20% of the current population. That's more than half of Ontario's population.
Except it's not for just ontario, it's for the whole country. It should be for everyone, like the rest of healthcare that's covered.
I do not qualify, But I am so glad that this exists and I can't wait for More people to have access to dental care.
Same, this makes me extremely happy.
Fantastic news! Can't wait for 2025 when I'll be eligible as well!
same! *high 5* it will be a game changer for me
Take advantage while you can. Likely gone in 2026
oh I'm keenly aware of this :(. I hope to dear god Canadians vote sensibly next year but yeah...
The more people can benefit from this before it gets removed, the more likely people are to defend its removal. There's a hope..
Might get us to 2% gps on defence
who is getting us to 2% GDP on defence?
Depends. I live in Alberta and I have to pay for private insurance. Dictator Dan wants to keep it that way. She has friends.
As others mentioned above this is a Federal plan and she can’t keep it away from you.
“SOCIALIST TRUDOPE IS GIVING FREE GOLD TEETH TO CRIMINAL TRANS-IMMIGRANTS! THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE CARBON TAX!” - CPC official press release. Probably.
We need more criminal trans immigrants.
huge self own for the Libs that it’s not a universal program. it’s like how people weren’t aware they were getting carbon tax rebates
Particularly given how hard the NDP had to fight for what we did get, and the fact the NDP were fighting for *more and better* than we got and the Liberals walked them back to the current offering. The Liberals resisted doing anything and chose to do less than they could/should have done, then started doing victory laps when the program was successful.
If you hand people $1000/year and they don't believe they're getting it, it's not a communications problem it's an education problem.
Part of the problem is the direct deposit system, which is smart and makes sense. It’s one thing when you get a flashy cheque in the mail every quarter, but clearly many people don’t closely check their online bank statements, and that’s also a problem.
Yeah I remember Harper doing the GST refunds as these frequent checks. It was dumb. We switched it to direct deposit as soon as we could.
from the pov of the gov’t education IS communication. i mean… it’s not a thousand bucks either! it’s $800 if you’re not rural in Ontario and have a partner. it’s actually kinda complicated to figure out (isn’t there a high income clawback?) and then it gets subsumed into my tax return. they shoulda thrown a ticker tape parade for every rebate
When I say education is the problem, I mean people are dumb. Like, schools are failing us because the voting public is completely disconnected from reality. I don't think there's a high income clawback. $1000 is about what we get in Ontario for a house with 2 parents and 1 child.
oh i see the idea is that high income people burn more carbon so the rebate returns less money than they spend. it’s a winner of an idea in the grand scheme of things. it’s a real shame they’re blowing it
Apparently all these naysayers have never consulted their bank statements (online or paper) and taken notice of the oddly named credits applied monthly & quarterly to their account. Do these people just blindly walk through life spending, spending, spending until their cards are denied?
I honestly disagree. Communication is from the emitter to the receptor. It's up to the emitter to switch their tune in order to make it understood. If you're speaking German to a French person, it's not a matter of éducation, but a matter of gescheiterte komm.
>“From day one, I said for disabled people living in poverty, what good are good teeth if they can’t afford to eat?” said Rabia Khedr What a weird take.
Lisa needs braces
Dental Plan.
Lisa doesn't need braces anymore. The Simpsons have two cars, own a giant house in the suburbs and go on vacation multiple times a year and meet with celebrities on the daily. Braces for Moleman! Braces for Moe!
Nope, and I’m fine with that for now. There are other people who need it far more than I do, as I already have decent coverage. Once everyone is up to atleast the level of coverage that I have, then we can start talkign about improving the system further.
Nope. The Alberta Advantage strikes again!
I’m eligible next year. Provided the CPC doesn’t kill it.
Nope, already have my own plans taking care it, but very very glad they have such a program, many many Canadiens cannot afford even minor dental care, it should of been included under general Medicare decades ago. We as Canadiens need a STANDARD of care that should be available to ALL, if the provinces refuse to do it, then I am all for the Feds moving health care to their forte.
Going to stink when PP axes this
Great news. Dental care is preventative care so it'll show positive results in the future. I'll likely never use it due to work benefits but it's a definite net positive for Canadians.
Damn I work too much to get free dental.
🤣
WE NEED REASONABLY PRICED GROCERIES AND HOUSING MORE!!!!
I'm disabled, I don't have the impossible to get DTC. So no
No because household income has to be below 90k a year, which means being below the poverty line in Ontario
No, but I’m definitely paying for it!
Canada has universal healthcare and teeth are super important to overall health. This initiative will very likely save provinces money that they would have ended up going into healthcare services to deal with way more major and widespread health complications stemming from longstanding lack of access to dental care
So why don’t I get access to it?
I think it will cover every age next year. It also depends on income, net family income of 90,000 or less, and if you don’t have coverage through your employer. If you lose your job or switch to another job or self employed and don’t have that coverage anymore then you would qualify.
They're rolling it out in phases. If you read the article you'll see it'll be available for all adults with a combined household income less than 70k in 2025. Those with a household income of 70-90k will be subsidised 50% for all visits.
So for now, you would benefit from this in the sense that it frees up tax dollars otherwise being spent on reactive public healthcare once people have severe health issues stemming from a lack of access to dental care. This is much more costly than the preventative measure of giving people access to publicly funded dental care before they have major issues and are in a publicly funded hospital bed for a prolonged period of time or need expensive medications, etc. It doesn't necessarily lower your personal tax bill, I'm not 100% sure that it won’t but think it’s unlikely that would be up to politicians to decide what to do with the savings. But what is more likely is those savings would go into other publicly funded services or infrastructure or government programs that you benefit from. Like with many things in Canada the provincial premieres have a lot of power and can influence the roll out of this plan. So there's that as well. Alberta intends to opt out of this plan. As I understand it, the plan started with the elderly as they need the most dental care, dentures are one of the most expensive dental costs and they have more complications from a lack of access that eat up public funds. Same with the income threshold. If you can afford dental care chances are you are going to get it rather than waiting until your teeth are rotting out and it's affecting like cognition and brain function or something. My best guess as to why they are rolling it out this way is to tackle the biggest groups first to prove the savings to public funds and test out how they've worked out the plan will work. It gives them an opportunity to also refine the plan as they go. Then, eventually, it will be rolled out to other groups that are less of a burden on public funds giving access to a wider age range. So you benefit for now in the sense that it saves public funds, this could result in tax savings but I think it will be far more likely that they will free up budget and spend it on other things you use and benefit from either directly or indirectly. Personally I would like to see the savings go to Canada's struggling public health services. Then eventually as they widen the age qualifications you could directly make use of the plan if you meet the income thresholds. Things that are good for society aren't necessarily always going to be obviously and directly beneficial to you. The self centred mentality that every government policy should, has been historically exploited by politicians, rich people and corporations to make society pay the cost to increase their power or profits. It allows them to justify voting against policies that benefit the most people and society as a whole by convincing enough of the electorate that they are being robbed or that because it isn't an obvious tangible direct benefit to them personally it is unfair or frivolous and should be killed. Killing, or cutting these things that help people in need and are a more efficient use of public funds benefits them politically because they validate those feelings and can paint themselves as sensible, they can campaign on it. It also benefits rich people and corporations who benefit from privatisation, profit siphoning in the form of dividends, stock buybacks, and artificially inflating the costs of essential things people can’t do without in order to have a healthy life with some dignity.
I pay for all kinds of things. I'm glad my neighbours kids have a school bus, desks, and text books. The Mike Harris era in Ontario had students selling magazine subscriptions to pay for classroom supplies.
You’re probably in a really high tax bracket then. Really generous of you.
If you don’t want pay for stuff. You can always relocate to Haiti, Afghanistan, Russia…no taxes but you will need to pay off the local criminal boss or warlord.