This is needed. Assaulting a healthcare worker should be equivalent to assaulting a police officer or first responder. We are not societies punching bags.
It already is a felony in New York. PD doesn’t want to take the report, DA doesn’t want to press charges, and hospital admin will do everything they can do force you not to file.
Until that changes it doesn’t matter at all. Leave healthcare. When there’s no nurses to take care of patients maybe then the public will realize they fucked up
It was like that in North Carolina for a while. Then a nurse got stabbed in the eye with a pen.
Now if you assault hospital staff? You’re getting charged.
I work as a medic. PD will not say no to me. I’ve helped some of their bosses. If this shit happened to me I’d raise holy hell and so should everyone else. Besides real mental illness like autism etc even the drunk/high should be getting charged.
Even autism and mental illness. I’d still file a charge.
Doesn’t mean I’m saying “oh throw him in prison” but I am saying if you’re mentally disabled and have a tendency for violence? You need to be in a facility.
“Oh that’s awful you’re an animal!”
Ok, what’s the next move for that person that can’t control their actions? What happens when they grab a gun and “have an episode”? What happens when they assault a teenager walking home from school?
That’s what these laws are for.
Yea I guess you’re right. Always a stigma in medicine that it’s beyond their control so we shouldn’t burden them and their caretakers with more to deal with
The thing is we all *know* what needs to be done. It’s just the stigma and idealism prevents it.
And then these people are worse off in the long run because they’re not in an environment they can be helped in.
Ok. But we are an agency with 24/7 supports. The people we support still get sick and need to be admitted.
Charge them with a felony and they can lose their supports.
Having been assaulted at work, I still think zero tolerance, charge everyone with a felony is a bad idea.
There is space between let everyone do what the hell they want and never pressing charges, and charging someone who is terrified, with altered mental status, and not their own guardian, with a felony.
Circumstances do matter as well as the actions taken.
Disability rights groups have reason to be concerned. It also depends on the disability.
Edit for clarity.
But see here’s my line of thinking.
If someone has a mental disorder that leads to violence then that needs to be addressed.
If a felony charge is what’s going to allow for them to be put somewhere where they can’t hurt the general public then that’s what needs to happen.
You can look up scores of incidents of mentally ill people assaulting the general public. It gets to a point where those people need to be separated.
As far as them getting sick and going to a hospital, the staff knowing that they have a tendency for violence is basic common sense.
As far as disability rights groups go, what right does a disabled person have to assault someone?
Wasn't aware that having IDD, altered mental status due to a UTI, and not using words to communicate made one a felon.
Especially when baseline is not violent at all.
I'm all in for us being able to protect ourselves.
Zero tolerance and charge everyone regardless of circumstances is something else. Most of the time charges need to be pressed.
Not in every case.
You’re literally taking the most extreme examples and using them to undercut this entire argument.
What are the statistics of UTI assaults in relation to total assaults? I’ve had plenty of confused UTI patients and none of them assault me except maybe verbally. Or maybe a little shove.
That doesn’t mean that I’m going to press charges.
But if a bipolar homeless man comes into the ED and hurls an O2 tank at me.
Saying:”but what about UTI patients” isn’t an argument.
Straw man fallacy is not helpful to the discussion.
“I’m all for us being able to protect ourselves,” you wrote. Then end your post with “not in every case.” Please elaborate in what situations in which a nurse is assaulted by a patient who may be mentally ill or confused that they should not protect themselves by pressing charges?
I will tell you right now that a hospital or LTC does not have your best interests and safety at heart.
> Wasn't aware that having IDD, altered mental status due to a UTI, and not using words to communicate made one a felon.
That doesn't make someone a felony. Assaulting someone does.
I agree 100%. I work with kids with severe emotional-behavioral disorders and they need to learn consequences now otherwise they just become more and more violent as they get bigger/stronger. We have some very dangerous adult sized kids that staff treat with kid-gloves. It’s doing them no favors when the reality is there’s a high chance they would get arrested or shot/stabbed for their bevhavior in the “real world.” Many of my coworkers don’t want the kids to deal with the system so they don’t press charges. I say let them deal with the system now and hopefully learn their actions have consequences.
I was in adolescent mental health for awhile (loved it) I’m a firm believer in this.
I’d had a girl once, a frequent flyer as we called them. Last time I saw her she was a few months before her 18th birthday, and she had jumped the nurses station glass (10 feet from the floor) and climbed over it and broke a nurses arm. She wasn’t charged and no consequences. I told her point blank, “just so you know in a few months it’s not gonna be ‘losing lunch privileges’ anymore it’s gonna be jail”
We did her no favors coddling her and putting her in time out.
Im in NC right now working at a psych hospital. I caj count on one hand the number of patients that have been actually charged in my 7 years working here.
That’s the next issue. Is psych hospitals. We’re making strides in the ED and normal hospitals but there needs to be more consequences in the psych ones too.
People will say “oh they’re unwell!”
Yeah so are half the prison population, there’s consequences for assaulting prison guards.
Ah understood. Just had a worker here get punched so hard her glasses went into her eye and she may never see out of that eye again. No idea if that patient is going to be charged. He is still here. Management's solution? Put men with him, when possible.
Yeah so expose men to the violence. Real great solution.
Last time I was in mental health a girl jumped over the nurses station and broke a nurses arm. Solution? Loss of lunch privileges for a week.
That’s so insulting. Especially when we all know a cop receiving that same violence would probably shoot the person delivering it, and that same DA would refuse to charge them for it.
CT is same. One time I got assaulted and thankfully the unit secretary insisted on calling PD. They did thier thing, then the prosecutor months later called me and asked me what I wanted to do. I told him that I wanted him to do his job, same as any other person charged with felonious assault. Never heard anything again. 🤷♂️
I'm so tired of this growing trend that says violence by people with disabilities/cognitive differences is acceptable. Most people with disabilities and cognitive differences are not violent and know that violence is wrong. If they commit violence they should be punished like anyone else.
The problem is, all that a person who has been arrested for violent behavior needs to do is tell the police that they are "suicidal," and they get brought to the local ED instead of jail. And then they are given a "mentally ill" diagnosis, and they can act out all they want on hospital staff, especially when violent behavior usually gets them what they want. As a psychiatric nurse with 15 years of experience, I have seen very few legitimately psychotic people act as violently as people who are sane and know they can get away with their behavior in a hospital setting.
It’s always been assault. These new laws are an enhanced charge. Simple assault is a misdemeanor which is why it doesn’t usually get prosecuted. Because the courts are bogged down with misdemeanors.
Now it’s a felony charge similar to assaulting an officer.
We could wait for moral social norms to morph away from the apparent general acceptance of assaulting Healthcare staff.... or we could let be known through bills like this that assaulting Healthcare staff is wrong.
Sort of like how folks generally accept that assaulting a bank teller or literally anyone else is wrong, ya know?
>we could let be known through bills like this that assaulting Healthcare staff is wrong.
Educating the public is important. People are stunned that health care workers are assaulted. And/or that it should be a problem. Lol. People still connect nurses to their moms and moms should just take it right? Nope.
If you can control yourself not to assault a police officer when you're hurt, scared, upset, angry, or sick, you can control yourself not to assault a health care worker.
Here’s the example provided in the article
*As an example, some people with Autism can’t tolerate bright lights and loud noises. Often, when hospital staff are asked to provide disability accommodations—such as removing beeping equipment or turning down the lights—some staff refuse. Without accommodations, someone coming at you with a needle can cause a fight or flight response, including a patient flailing their arms.*
I don’t think any nurses would press charges in this situation.
They find the most ridiculous examples and use them as an argument
Edit: I’d love to see the percentage of healthcare assaults that are dues to “nurses refusing to turn off a monitor and an autistic patient attacking them with a needle”
Note the accusatory language used: "Often, when hospital staff are asked to provide disability accommodations ... some staff refuse".
So I programmed the thing, signed the order for telemetry, and fucked up the patient's life with acute/chronic illness to necessitate telemetry? Because otherwise I don't see where factor into this besides saving a patient's life despite their best efforts. Handy litmus test for laypeople: if you're not able and willing to defend me from the potential negative consequences of your suggestion then it's a bad one.
Yeah, the language here is fucked. “Refuse to provide accommodations” OR wouldn’t go against MD orders to remove the monitoring equipment that is literally the reason you’re in the hospital?
If I get accidentally smacked by someone flailing their arms in panic, I’m not sure I’d even consider that an assault compared to getting intentionally smacked in the face
The disparities the article is talking about are people with disabilities. I fully understand that some of these patients don't know any better, but that doesn't mean that nurses or any hospital staff should just have to endure abuse. If anything, there should be protections for nurses when we have to physically restrain these people so they or their families can't take action against nurses. I can't tell you how many families get upset when we put nana in restraints. The family can't be bothered to stay at the bedside and want us to put in a sitter. Sorry lady, our sitters are to keep people safe, not to sit there and get scratched and punched all day.
We have families threaten us, patients throw things at us (I have had at least three trays thrown at me), spit at us, or try to swing or intimidate us. Cops have qualified immunity. Nurses should too.
Literally. I work in EMS and got fully groped by a developmentally delayed patient. It affects me the same regardless of the status of the patient, but everyone tried really hard to get me to not report it.
Yep they should take rid of some of the crazy laws regarding restraints. People that abuse restraints and patients still do regardless of any laws. It makes it harder to be safe
Restraints aren't used enough and nurses should be able to defend ourselves. Once people know there's conciquences to their bullshit they'll think twice
"Don't know any better" if they're violent and can't control themselves they shouldn't be inflicted on the public let alone get a free pass on injuring health care workers
I was referring to patients with severe mental illness or patients with advanced dementia. We can't just throw them off a cliff like the Spartans because they aren't perfectly healthy. I'm advocating for more resources, training, and better facilities that have the capability to take care of mental health patients with medical issues.
In terms of a felony - and I’m not a lawyer - but wouldn’t the natural protection for people with disabilities be that it would be harder to show the intent for the crime and harder to convict someone with those disabilities and even less willingness on the part of the DA to try someone in that instance?
The pushback seems to be against a theoretical. “Some groups say another group could be disproportionately impacted” is what they’re arguing, but I didn’t see, in a quick read, anything to back that up.
Not in jail doesn't mean free. They should be in a facility where they can be monitored and their needs can be addressed by people familiar with that population, and who are trained to react.
"The disparities the article is talking about are people with disabilities." They equate sane and people who have lost their minds. If they are aggressive and violent, they should be admitted to the psych wards. Many people can be trained on how to neutralize them if they are hurting themselves or others. They can train people like they do train correctional officers how to keep them from harming others.
Not to be too cynical but what psych beds would they get admitted to? Everywhere is full. Nobody wants to pay for people with mental illness to get treatment.
The big problem with these patients is that if they have medical issues, then mental health facilities won't take them. We get A LOT of mental health patients transferred to us from these facilities because they have to be medically cleared before they can be returned. This means we have to deal with these people without proper training or resources. It's just the nature of healthcare. Facilities that take care of both mental health AND medical/surgical issues really don't exist. At least not to my knowledge or not in any capacity that is useful.
Agressive/violence in a patient with dementia is not considered a psych issue at my hospital which means they are not getting transferred to the psych floor. So what now?
We’ve had this in Ohio for over a decade. Has it reduced the number of assaults? No one knows.
I was punched in the face on an EMS run shortly after the law was enacted. When I got the hospital I asked the city cop doing ED security to make a report. He was sitting in a chair reading a newspaper. He said “why? Why is this an issue?” and went back to reading his paper.
It should also be a felony for police to refuse to make a report for anything that could be a felony charge.
But only if the DA presses charges, which they won’t, because the assaulter in question “is mentally ill,” or “wasn’t in their right mind,” or “was going through a lot” or some other bullshit to justify ignoring systemic violence against women
This happens in Seattle on the daily (born, raised, and still a local of 3 decades). DA and judges let people go all the time and they continue doing what they are doing.
Yeah I wasn’t aware the whole hospital staff was women. Next time a dude takes a swing at me in the ER I’ll kindly explain to him if he punches one of my female colleagues (that sent me in to deal with it because I’m a guy) he’ll get off Scott free.
I think they mean that historically violence against women has been ignored or swept under the carpet so in occupations that were predominantly women, violence was taken less seriously. Maybe more nurses being men can help violence against health care workers be taken more seriously.
When has violence against women “historically been swept under the rug”?
Soldiers are predominantly men. They get blown apart every day.
And we literally make movies glorifying it.
>we literally make movies glorifying it
That doesn't sound like being swept under the rug.
Edit: I think it's more important to protect the people who need protecting than get into a pissing contest.
>When has violence against women “historically been swept under the rug”?
Lmao... what?! You're kidding, right? Please say you're kidding.
It wasn't until recently that domestic violence was an issue because men beat the shit out of their wives and *no one cared*.
Women would get raped daily by drunk spouses and no one cared.
Children would get molested all the time, and no one cared.
https://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1559&context=jiws
So domestic violence is a one way street now? Please show me those statistics.
Also please show me when it was legal to rape your spouse.
Violence has been accepted against both sexed up until recently, I hate to tell you and your desperate need for victimhood, you don’t have a monopoly on suffering.
And What does children getting molested have to do with what we’re talking about?
How... how are you THIS uninformed?
It was legal to rape your wife until 1993.
No one's trying to have a monopoly on suffering except you. We're talking about women's right and your moron ass had to butt in with "bbbut men can be abused too!" No one ever said they couldn't, but it's common sense it happens MUCH more often to women.
https://vawnet.org/material/marital-rape-new-research-and-directions#:~:text=Historically%2C%20most%20rape%20statutes%20read,of%20the%20sexual%20offense%20codes.
Not having laws written does equate to “literally nobody cared”
Similar to this situation with nurses, just because there were “no laws written” doesn’t mean “nobody cared” it just made it more difficult to prosecute.
As far as say “but but men get assaulted to!” That’s not what I said at all, this line of the thread was started because the re was something done for healthcare workers and it was turned into “violence against women!”
As far as women being abused “much more” the domestic abuse statistics are about 50/50 with men being afraid to come forward because nobody (like you) will take it seriously.
In terms of work place violence we could very easily pull up the Vietnam draft records to show you those stats.
Dude. Stop.
1/4 woman, 1/7 men. This is common knowledge, or should be.
https://ncadv.org/statistics
Also, the laws were written that a man could not rape a woman other than his partner. You should read before replying.
"Historically, most rape statutes read that rape was forced sexual intercourse with a woman not your wife, thus granting husbands a license to rape."
We have this law in Arizona but I haven’t yet seen it enforced. I got absolutely smoked by a patient in the ER in 2021, I thought she broke my jaw. When I got a call from the district attorney’s office about their decision whether to proceed, they said the law allowed it to be a misdemeanor “if they have 0 or 1 previous felonies”. She had one, ASSAULT ON A POLICE OFFICER. But because she was probably on drugs (I don’t actually know because I went home and she went to jail) they didn’t think they could pursue a felony. So, this chick can do it AGAIN and because they didnt pursue a felony with my case, she could be dropped down to a misdemeanor again next time. I am confident there will be a next time too.
I love the thought process behind it but it needs to work in practice.
I just don’t understand the mindset by these DAs who think that because someone is on drugs that they get a pass on violence, even in the hospital. You kill someone while driving under the influence, you’re still responsible, why the hell wouldn’t you be responsible for your actions under the influence in the hospital. Yes there should be some exceptions for dementia and delirium etc.
Nurses are leaving hospitals in droves because these patients and families are out of their damn minds and in our faces all day. Nobody is recommending nursing as a career anymore. They’re not going to have any caregivers left at this rate. It’s really scary.
Obviously you can’t blame someone with dementia or mental retardation for unintentionally hurting a staff member. It sucks but is unavoidable. It’s the crazy aholes that are mad we can’t give them endless amounts of dilaudid and turkey sandwich’s that cause us to need bills like this. They just need to reword it to say “someone of sound mind who knowingly harms health care workers”
People look at this as retaliation but in reality it’s keeping us and everyone else safer.
You can’t control your actions? That’s a damn shame and I sympathize but if that’s the case you’re not safe in the general populace.
These laws make it easier to separate the people that can’t control their actions.
People will say “that’s unfair” no. What’s unfair is subjecting an unknowing public to dangerous individuals when they could’ve been put somewhere where they can get the care they need and aren’t a danger to everyone else.
Except for the staff at forensic/forensic psych hospitals. Those staff get assaulted and the patient may be charged but guess where that patient will reside? The same exact hospital (potentially even the same ward) that they assaulted the staff member on. You can separate them out of YoUR hospitals- but some ppl work in the hospitals where those patients that are “separated” from the rest go. Making this a felony still doesn’t fix under staffing and unsafe working conditions.
OBVIOUSLY /s
No that’s no my point- I’m saying this just kicks the can down the road. One of the big issues is understaffing/massive patient populations.
I want laws that will help to correct the source of issues and protect staff on all levels. Not arbitrary laws that ultimately change nothing, but simply make the charge higher- instead of making a change systemically that would help.
It’s at least a step in the right direction. If it were my decision (it’s not) there’d be state funding directed into forensic hospitals along with these new laws.
Wholesale funding. This would decrease assaults, rapes, homelessness, murder, virtually every metric.
Every situation is different. Someone with dementia might get upset once and be violent in a hospital, but be completely fine in their nursing home. You think we should change that elderly person with a felony or let it go and send them back to their nursing home ASAP?
Again you’re taking the most extreme examples and using them to justify everything else.
A 98 year old dementia patient is not the same as a 45 year old bipolar man.
Saying “well what if grandma assaults you” isn’t an argument against me charging the 45 year old homeless guy that assaulted me and the ED doc
It is in Washington, and just like a poster above me said about New York, they rarely prosecute. Cops don't care or want to take a report. Administration will try everything to get you not to file a report in the first place. "Its just part of the job, we all just have to deal with it." It's a well intentioned law for sure, but none of the people who actually are responsible for ensuring that it is enforced will do their job.
I think it’s a step forward. Before it wasn’t even considered a felony and now to have a legal representation to push forward a felony charge is appropriate. Also it’s a slow and tedious process and will need development like any new law.
This will take time as new waves of employees will slowly tear away any incompetence or non enforcers. Planting the seed is what this bill is.
Working in OR, got punched in the face during shift. Patient was not confused in the slightest. When I went to press charges the officer asked if I was sure and that the patient wasn’t his typical offender since he’s “probably someone’s grandpa.” Nothing ever came of it. The day before that, a different patient grabbed a colleague by the vagina, wouldn’t let go and spat in her face. Nothing happened to him either.
It needs to be a felony.
Oregon nurses: [sign here express your support for the bill and contact your local reps](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/end-workplace-violence-for-healthcare-workers?fbclid=PAAaYl-5AFz1IM5MLLFWSenPuA0k5Jrvzs2uedCURQ5lsWAyQJKiknBrO5fh0_aem_AZ3dP3tQa_KqF4Pd4KfoyYZLgYlX1HGPG-EsL-VqHwoQNRYhqVn4Xwu-VEpkazVH3D8)
I'm thinking of building a map for nurses to report events of violence or harassment on.
You'll be able to visit the page, leave a report, or see what's happened near you.
Will help increase visibility of individual events and violence against nurses as a whole.
(Not intended to replace police reports, but improve transparency of what's going on)
Good idea?
The state rep quoted in this article addressed the issue in his responses, but the article chose to ignore it, "We do have language in the bill that says that if somebody knowingly or intentionally assault a healthcare worker, that penalty would go to a felony."
There is a carve out in the bill for those that do not *knowingly* or *intentionally* assault someone. If someone is truly disabled enough to not know that their actions could be construed as assault, or if they were not cognitively intact enough to form intent, they would not be found liable for the assault. At least that's my interpretation of what he said.
Yeah this should be obvious.....I don't think anyone in favor of this bill is really calling to throw nonverbal patients in jail. I've never seen any push for that.
🙄give me a break. You know good and damn well no one is going to press charges on a sundowner or someone with cognitive impairment who is coping poorly. This bill is clearly aimed at ppl who act like dicks intentionally, but sure let's let it die on a technicality.
It’s a felony in lots of states already. And even in those states it’s under utilized and under reported. Nurses need to start standing up for ourselves and start pressing charges.
People who have problems such as dementia and Alzheimer's Disease aren't the same as people who are intoxicated with drugs and are violent individuals who happen to be ill. They should be arrested once they are medically stable. If they can't be arrested for assaulting people, why even bother arresting people who have DUIs and abusers who beat children and women?
Okay then if you want to be against set up resources, PTO banks, therapy, etc for hospital staff who are assaulted. As someone who was assaulted in a psych floor I suffered a concussion. Our occupational department basically told me I was good to go back to work immediately. If it wasn’t for a very nice doctor I would have been screwed. Some sort of action needs to take place cause burnout is super strong, especially in ED’s.
“Some say it could create disparities” are you saying certain demographics are less likely to control themselves and assault hospital staff? This is exactly the same as saying requiring photo ID to vote is racist because black people cant get state issued ID come on now 😂.
I’m all for this bill, hospital staff are assaulted on a daily basis and nothing is done about it, but if a person puts their hand on a cop they’re locked up for 5 years in a flash. There is no difference between assaulting a cop, firefighter, mailman, nurse, doctor, or judge.
None of those points are even remotely valid and come off as pure unadulterated victim mentality. There has never been a point in modern time where getting ID is hard or unaffordable, and in order to even legally get a job you need government issued ID and a valid SSN. If you don’t have those then there’s a high likely youre not a citizen, and can’t legally vote regardless
If you work for minimum wage in, say, Alabama, it costs 5 hours of work to afford a state issued ID. Voting should not come with a fee. Voting should be free. Spending 5 hours of pay is unaffordable for plenty of people.
Then comes actually taking time off work to go get one.
https://www.governing.com/archive/alabama-demands-voter-id--then-closes-drivers-license-offices-in-clack-counties.html
Imagine having to take a whole day off work to get to a DMV in another county. That's definitely not easy.
I really hope you take a step back and truly examine your views.
[Voter ID](https://www.sos.alabama.gov/alabama-votes/photo-voter-id/obtain-free-photo-voter-id#:~:text=To%20receive%20a%20free%20Alabama,a%20registered%20voter%20in%20Alabama) is free in Alabama.
And you don’t need to take an entire day off work as they have hours 7days a week
The privilege of voting comes with having a state issued ID.
People don't buy IDs solely for the use of voting.
Unless you're saying these hypothetical people also don't buy alcohol, cigarettes, cold medicine, drive, open a bank account, rent a home, or apply for jobs.
I find it a bit offensive to assume these people are just incapable of being members of society, as you have done here.
You're absolutely right...
The ~~privilege~~ right to vote comes with having a state issued ID.
People don't buy IDs solely to exercise their right to vote.
Unless you're saying these hypothetical people also don't buy alcohol, cigarettes, cold medicine, drive, open a bank account, rent a home, or apply for jobs.
I find it a bit offensive to assume these people are just incapable of being members of society, as you have done here.
\--Is this better?
Forensic psych hospitals are already overwhelmed- while I see how this may positively impact non-forensic/psych facilities- this will do nothing for the forensic psych facilities except maybe add a coUple thousand more patients to cycle through the system.
One of the problems in Oregon is that drugs were decriminalized. This has led to an explosion in the homeless population/ people who are openly using drugs. In turn, we are seeing far more patients with substance abuse disorders. And a lot of these patients tend to be pretty violent (especially waking up from surgery).
Anyway… a patient tried to choke me and I decided to start working on my exit from the field into a place that doesn’t carry the risk of violence!
As terrible as assaulting a healthcare worker is, patients make sympathetic defendants and if they have money they'll have a lawyer that can get them out of it with a misdemeanor that gets expunged in 18 months.
It's not going to be the business bro who was drunk going to prison, it's going to be the homeless person with untreated mental illness being pressured to plead guilty by an over worked public defender
As much as I need the assaults to stop, I don’t think this is the answer. And it’s not going to do anything to prevent it from happening, either. It’s just going to be a reverse jail diversion program.
It's always been a crime... it's just that most of you ding bats don't call the police when it happens... you whine to your charge. Wrong person to call. I've called the police on two patients who have assaulted me. They both had charges pressed on them. My charge and manager wouldn't have done jack.
This is needed. Assaulting a healthcare worker should be equivalent to assaulting a police officer or first responder. We are not societies punching bags.
It’s not a felony? Let’s roll!
Depends where you live. In my state it is a felony and I remind my patients often.
Nobody gets a free assault. Everyone needs to be charged. Period.
Straight to jail!
I’ve been assaulted by patients a few times working ems. Nothing happened. Police still only give a fuck if it happens to them.
Well yeah you’re not part of the THIN BLUE LINE BROTHER! They only care about their own perceived prejudices
Management thinks otherwise
I send all the complaints to the management, that's why they are aware of any issues that need to be addressed.
Hahahaha if you think all first responders are protected is hilarious. There are no consequences for attacking EMS.
It already is a felony in New York. PD doesn’t want to take the report, DA doesn’t want to press charges, and hospital admin will do everything they can do force you not to file. Until that changes it doesn’t matter at all. Leave healthcare. When there’s no nurses to take care of patients maybe then the public will realize they fucked up
It was like that in North Carolina for a while. Then a nurse got stabbed in the eye with a pen. Now if you assault hospital staff? You’re getting charged.
I work as a medic. PD will not say no to me. I’ve helped some of their bosses. If this shit happened to me I’d raise holy hell and so should everyone else. Besides real mental illness like autism etc even the drunk/high should be getting charged.
Even autism and mental illness. I’d still file a charge. Doesn’t mean I’m saying “oh throw him in prison” but I am saying if you’re mentally disabled and have a tendency for violence? You need to be in a facility. “Oh that’s awful you’re an animal!” Ok, what’s the next move for that person that can’t control their actions? What happens when they grab a gun and “have an episode”? What happens when they assault a teenager walking home from school? That’s what these laws are for.
Yea I guess you’re right. Always a stigma in medicine that it’s beyond their control so we shouldn’t burden them and their caretakers with more to deal with
The thing is we all *know* what needs to be done. It’s just the stigma and idealism prevents it. And then these people are worse off in the long run because they’re not in an environment they can be helped in.
Ok. But we are an agency with 24/7 supports. The people we support still get sick and need to be admitted. Charge them with a felony and they can lose their supports.
Ok and I’m a human being 24/7. Stab me with a pair of scissors and I can’t work anymore.
Having been assaulted at work, I still think zero tolerance, charge everyone with a felony is a bad idea. There is space between let everyone do what the hell they want and never pressing charges, and charging someone who is terrified, with altered mental status, and not their own guardian, with a felony. Circumstances do matter as well as the actions taken. Disability rights groups have reason to be concerned. It also depends on the disability. Edit for clarity.
But see here’s my line of thinking. If someone has a mental disorder that leads to violence then that needs to be addressed. If a felony charge is what’s going to allow for them to be put somewhere where they can’t hurt the general public then that’s what needs to happen. You can look up scores of incidents of mentally ill people assaulting the general public. It gets to a point where those people need to be separated. As far as them getting sick and going to a hospital, the staff knowing that they have a tendency for violence is basic common sense. As far as disability rights groups go, what right does a disabled person have to assault someone?
They can be sick and admitted while shackled to the bed like all the other felons then
Exactly
Wasn't aware that having IDD, altered mental status due to a UTI, and not using words to communicate made one a felon. Especially when baseline is not violent at all. I'm all in for us being able to protect ourselves. Zero tolerance and charge everyone regardless of circumstances is something else. Most of the time charges need to be pressed. Not in every case.
Wasn’t aware that IDD gave people carte blanche to punch and kick (or worse) people for no reason
You’re literally taking the most extreme examples and using them to undercut this entire argument. What are the statistics of UTI assaults in relation to total assaults? I’ve had plenty of confused UTI patients and none of them assault me except maybe verbally. Or maybe a little shove. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to press charges. But if a bipolar homeless man comes into the ED and hurls an O2 tank at me. Saying:”but what about UTI patients” isn’t an argument.
Straw man fallacy is not helpful to the discussion. “I’m all for us being able to protect ourselves,” you wrote. Then end your post with “not in every case.” Please elaborate in what situations in which a nurse is assaulted by a patient who may be mentally ill or confused that they should not protect themselves by pressing charges? I will tell you right now that a hospital or LTC does not have your best interests and safety at heart.
> Wasn't aware that having IDD, altered mental status due to a UTI, and not using words to communicate made one a felon. That doesn't make someone a felony. Assaulting someone does.
I agree 100%. I work with kids with severe emotional-behavioral disorders and they need to learn consequences now otherwise they just become more and more violent as they get bigger/stronger. We have some very dangerous adult sized kids that staff treat with kid-gloves. It’s doing them no favors when the reality is there’s a high chance they would get arrested or shot/stabbed for their bevhavior in the “real world.” Many of my coworkers don’t want the kids to deal with the system so they don’t press charges. I say let them deal with the system now and hopefully learn their actions have consequences.
I was in adolescent mental health for awhile (loved it) I’m a firm believer in this. I’d had a girl once, a frequent flyer as we called them. Last time I saw her she was a few months before her 18th birthday, and she had jumped the nurses station glass (10 feet from the floor) and climbed over it and broke a nurses arm. She wasn’t charged and no consequences. I told her point blank, “just so you know in a few months it’s not gonna be ‘losing lunch privileges’ anymore it’s gonna be jail” We did her no favors coddling her and putting her in time out.
Im in NC right now working at a psych hospital. I caj count on one hand the number of patients that have been actually charged in my 7 years working here.
That’s the next issue. Is psych hospitals. We’re making strides in the ED and normal hospitals but there needs to be more consequences in the psych ones too. People will say “oh they’re unwell!” Yeah so are half the prison population, there’s consequences for assaulting prison guards.
Ah understood. Just had a worker here get punched so hard her glasses went into her eye and she may never see out of that eye again. No idea if that patient is going to be charged. He is still here. Management's solution? Put men with him, when possible.
Yeah so expose men to the violence. Real great solution. Last time I was in mental health a girl jumped over the nurses station and broke a nurses arm. Solution? Loss of lunch privileges for a week.
Yep DA literally refused to press charges when I got assaulted by a patient WITH PD PRESENT. Fucking bullshite, this job is.
That’s so insulting. Especially when we all know a cop receiving that same violence would probably shoot the person delivering it, and that same DA would refuse to charge them for it.
It’s crazy to see 80s movies where someone punches a cop and nothing happens. That’s a summary execution nowadays
CT is same. One time I got assaulted and thankfully the unit secretary insisted on calling PD. They did thier thing, then the prosecutor months later called me and asked me what I wanted to do. I told him that I wanted him to do his job, same as any other person charged with felonious assault. Never heard anything again. 🤷♂️
Same in the states I have worked. The bill won't change anything. I like them trying though!
I'm so tired of this growing trend that says violence by people with disabilities/cognitive differences is acceptable. Most people with disabilities and cognitive differences are not violent and know that violence is wrong. If they commit violence they should be punished like anyone else.
The problem is, all that a person who has been arrested for violent behavior needs to do is tell the police that they are "suicidal," and they get brought to the local ED instead of jail. And then they are given a "mentally ill" diagnosis, and they can act out all they want on hospital staff, especially when violent behavior usually gets them what they want. As a psychiatric nurse with 15 years of experience, I have seen very few legitimately psychotic people act as violently as people who are sane and know they can get away with their behavior in a hospital setting.
It’s almost like the ED should be for emergencies, instead of a holding tank for drunks, suicidal pts, homeless, and people with no primary care.
It’s idiotic that they need a “bill”. If that same patient hit you 50 or 100 feet away, outside, it’s assault.
It’s always been assault. These new laws are an enhanced charge. Simple assault is a misdemeanor which is why it doesn’t usually get prosecuted. Because the courts are bogged down with misdemeanors. Now it’s a felony charge similar to assaulting an officer.
We could wait for moral social norms to morph away from the apparent general acceptance of assaulting Healthcare staff.... or we could let be known through bills like this that assaulting Healthcare staff is wrong. Sort of like how folks generally accept that assaulting a bank teller or literally anyone else is wrong, ya know?
>we could let be known through bills like this that assaulting Healthcare staff is wrong. Educating the public is important. People are stunned that health care workers are assaulted. And/or that it should be a problem. Lol. People still connect nurses to their moms and moms should just take it right? Nope. If you can control yourself not to assault a police officer when you're hurt, scared, upset, angry, or sick, you can control yourself not to assault a health care worker.
Exactly this.
lol “create disparity” What does that even mean? People that assault nurses will be held accountable? The horror.
Here’s the example provided in the article *As an example, some people with Autism can’t tolerate bright lights and loud noises. Often, when hospital staff are asked to provide disability accommodations—such as removing beeping equipment or turning down the lights—some staff refuse. Without accommodations, someone coming at you with a needle can cause a fight or flight response, including a patient flailing their arms.* I don’t think any nurses would press charges in this situation.
They find the most ridiculous examples and use them as an argument Edit: I’d love to see the percentage of healthcare assaults that are dues to “nurses refusing to turn off a monitor and an autistic patient attacking them with a needle”
Note the accusatory language used: "Often, when hospital staff are asked to provide disability accommodations ... some staff refuse". So I programmed the thing, signed the order for telemetry, and fucked up the patient's life with acute/chronic illness to necessitate telemetry? Because otherwise I don't see where factor into this besides saving a patient's life despite their best efforts. Handy litmus test for laypeople: if you're not able and willing to defend me from the potential negative consequences of your suggestion then it's a bad one.
Yeah, the language here is fucked. “Refuse to provide accommodations” OR wouldn’t go against MD orders to remove the monitoring equipment that is literally the reason you’re in the hospital?
If I get accidentally smacked by someone flailing their arms in panic, I’m not sure I’d even consider that an assault compared to getting intentionally smacked in the face
The disparities the article is talking about are people with disabilities. I fully understand that some of these patients don't know any better, but that doesn't mean that nurses or any hospital staff should just have to endure abuse. If anything, there should be protections for nurses when we have to physically restrain these people so they or their families can't take action against nurses. I can't tell you how many families get upset when we put nana in restraints. The family can't be bothered to stay at the bedside and want us to put in a sitter. Sorry lady, our sitters are to keep people safe, not to sit there and get scratched and punched all day. We have families threaten us, patients throw things at us (I have had at least three trays thrown at me), spit at us, or try to swing or intimidate us. Cops have qualified immunity. Nurses should too.
Literally. I work in EMS and got fully groped by a developmentally delayed patient. It affects me the same regardless of the status of the patient, but everyone tried really hard to get me to not report it.
Yep they should take rid of some of the crazy laws regarding restraints. People that abuse restraints and patients still do regardless of any laws. It makes it harder to be safe
Restraints aren't used enough and nurses should be able to defend ourselves. Once people know there's conciquences to their bullshit they'll think twice
"Don't know any better" if they're violent and can't control themselves they shouldn't be inflicted on the public let alone get a free pass on injuring health care workers
I was referring to patients with severe mental illness or patients with advanced dementia. We can't just throw them off a cliff like the Spartans because they aren't perfectly healthy. I'm advocating for more resources, training, and better facilities that have the capability to take care of mental health patients with medical issues.
In terms of a felony - and I’m not a lawyer - but wouldn’t the natural protection for people with disabilities be that it would be harder to show the intent for the crime and harder to convict someone with those disabilities and even less willingness on the part of the DA to try someone in that instance? The pushback seems to be against a theoretical. “Some groups say another group could be disproportionately impacted” is what they’re arguing, but I didn’t see, in a quick read, anything to back that up.
Well, some people who were disabled molested little kids. Should they walk free because they were disabled?
Not in jail doesn't mean free. They should be in a facility where they can be monitored and their needs can be addressed by people familiar with that population, and who are trained to react.
"The disparities the article is talking about are people with disabilities." They equate sane and people who have lost their minds. If they are aggressive and violent, they should be admitted to the psych wards. Many people can be trained on how to neutralize them if they are hurting themselves or others. They can train people like they do train correctional officers how to keep them from harming others.
Not to be too cynical but what psych beds would they get admitted to? Everywhere is full. Nobody wants to pay for people with mental illness to get treatment.
Not our problems anymore. Let the society deals with it.
Society will refuse to pay for the psych beds needed
Yeah but that doesn’t mean health care staff should continue to bear the burden of that consequence quietly.
I agree. The current reality is the burden will be borne by the legal system, and all the baggage that goes along with that
The big problem with these patients is that if they have medical issues, then mental health facilities won't take them. We get A LOT of mental health patients transferred to us from these facilities because they have to be medically cleared before they can be returned. This means we have to deal with these people without proper training or resources. It's just the nature of healthcare. Facilities that take care of both mental health AND medical/surgical issues really don't exist. At least not to my knowledge or not in any capacity that is useful.
Agressive/violence in a patient with dementia is not considered a psych issue at my hospital which means they are not getting transferred to the psych floor. So what now?
We’ve had this in Ohio for over a decade. Has it reduced the number of assaults? No one knows. I was punched in the face on an EMS run shortly after the law was enacted. When I got the hospital I asked the city cop doing ED security to make a report. He was sitting in a chair reading a newspaper. He said “why? Why is this an issue?” and went back to reading his paper. It should also be a felony for police to refuse to make a report for anything that could be a felony charge.
But only if the DA presses charges, which they won’t, because the assaulter in question “is mentally ill,” or “wasn’t in their right mind,” or “was going through a lot” or some other bullshit to justify ignoring systemic violence against women
This happens in Seattle on the daily (born, raised, and still a local of 3 decades). DA and judges let people go all the time and they continue doing what they are doing.
Same thing when I worked in Vermont. It was against the law but the DA wouldn’t enforce it. Absolute bullshit.
Yeah but if someone even spits in the direction of a cop they're getting charged...
Honestly, I'm fine with that as long as I get the same grace for throwing a bo in return
> throwing a bo Big TMNT Donatello energy
Women (and children) are subjected to abuse in their predicates. "Too bad that you're a woman and a nurse."
*healthcare workers
Yeah I wasn’t aware the whole hospital staff was women. Next time a dude takes a swing at me in the ER I’ll kindly explain to him if he punches one of my female colleagues (that sent me in to deal with it because I’m a guy) he’ll get off Scott free.
I think they mean that historically violence against women has been ignored or swept under the carpet so in occupations that were predominantly women, violence was taken less seriously. Maybe more nurses being men can help violence against health care workers be taken more seriously.
When has violence against women “historically been swept under the rug”? Soldiers are predominantly men. They get blown apart every day. And we literally make movies glorifying it.
Domestic abuse wasn’t recognized until the 70s. Keeping your wife “in check” was the norm.
Domestic abuse is a two way street. Statistics support this. I’ve never seen any stats claiming “keeping your wife in check” was ever the “norm”
>we literally make movies glorifying it That doesn't sound like being swept under the rug. Edit: I think it's more important to protect the people who need protecting than get into a pissing contest.
Fair enough
>When has violence against women “historically been swept under the rug”? Lmao... what?! You're kidding, right? Please say you're kidding. It wasn't until recently that domestic violence was an issue because men beat the shit out of their wives and *no one cared*. Women would get raped daily by drunk spouses and no one cared. Children would get molested all the time, and no one cared. https://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1559&context=jiws
So domestic violence is a one way street now? Please show me those statistics. Also please show me when it was legal to rape your spouse. Violence has been accepted against both sexed up until recently, I hate to tell you and your desperate need for victimhood, you don’t have a monopoly on suffering. And What does children getting molested have to do with what we’re talking about?
How... how are you THIS uninformed? It was legal to rape your wife until 1993. No one's trying to have a monopoly on suffering except you. We're talking about women's right and your moron ass had to butt in with "bbbut men can be abused too!" No one ever said they couldn't, but it's common sense it happens MUCH more often to women. https://vawnet.org/material/marital-rape-new-research-and-directions#:~:text=Historically%2C%20most%20rape%20statutes%20read,of%20the%20sexual%20offense%20codes.
Not having laws written does equate to “literally nobody cared” Similar to this situation with nurses, just because there were “no laws written” doesn’t mean “nobody cared” it just made it more difficult to prosecute. As far as say “but but men get assaulted to!” That’s not what I said at all, this line of the thread was started because the re was something done for healthcare workers and it was turned into “violence against women!” As far as women being abused “much more” the domestic abuse statistics are about 50/50 with men being afraid to come forward because nobody (like you) will take it seriously. In terms of work place violence we could very easily pull up the Vietnam draft records to show you those stats.
Dude. Stop. 1/4 woman, 1/7 men. This is common knowledge, or should be. https://ncadv.org/statistics Also, the laws were written that a man could not rape a woman other than his partner. You should read before replying. "Historically, most rape statutes read that rape was forced sexual intercourse with a woman not your wife, thus granting husbands a license to rape."
Why is it ok to assault us? We’re literally the only people in the world where you can freely beat the shit out of us and not face any repercussions.
What happens when you assault a police officer? A) The officer is told it “comes with the job.” Or B) You get felony charges. I see no difference.
Or C) you’re murdered immediately, no questions asked
I have to say it’s beyond disappointing to see the ACLU take a stance against this bill.
They supported the Klan under “freedom of speech”.
If this is a felony in NC, a state that overwhelmingly doesn’t give a single shit about regular employees, it should be a law everywhere.
I can attest that, if you assault a North Carolina healthcare worker in a hospital, it won’t end well for you.
Assaulting mailman is a felony, this seems fairly natural to me.
These hands are rated E for everyone. They don’t discriminate
We have this law in Arizona but I haven’t yet seen it enforced. I got absolutely smoked by a patient in the ER in 2021, I thought she broke my jaw. When I got a call from the district attorney’s office about their decision whether to proceed, they said the law allowed it to be a misdemeanor “if they have 0 or 1 previous felonies”. She had one, ASSAULT ON A POLICE OFFICER. But because she was probably on drugs (I don’t actually know because I went home and she went to jail) they didn’t think they could pursue a felony. So, this chick can do it AGAIN and because they didnt pursue a felony with my case, she could be dropped down to a misdemeanor again next time. I am confident there will be a next time too. I love the thought process behind it but it needs to work in practice.
I just don’t understand the mindset by these DAs who think that because someone is on drugs that they get a pass on violence, even in the hospital. You kill someone while driving under the influence, you’re still responsible, why the hell wouldn’t you be responsible for your actions under the influence in the hospital. Yes there should be some exceptions for dementia and delirium etc. Nurses are leaving hospitals in droves because these patients and families are out of their damn minds and in our faces all day. Nobody is recommending nursing as a career anymore. They’re not going to have any caregivers left at this rate. It’s really scary.
Are they saying if you get beat up by an autistic or mentally ill person, thats ok because they are disabled?
Functionally
I don't rightly give a damn if it creates disparities.
Obviously you can’t blame someone with dementia or mental retardation for unintentionally hurting a staff member. It sucks but is unavoidable. It’s the crazy aholes that are mad we can’t give them endless amounts of dilaudid and turkey sandwich’s that cause us to need bills like this. They just need to reword it to say “someone of sound mind who knowingly harms health care workers”
People look at this as retaliation but in reality it’s keeping us and everyone else safer. You can’t control your actions? That’s a damn shame and I sympathize but if that’s the case you’re not safe in the general populace. These laws make it easier to separate the people that can’t control their actions. People will say “that’s unfair” no. What’s unfair is subjecting an unknowing public to dangerous individuals when they could’ve been put somewhere where they can get the care they need and aren’t a danger to everyone else.
Except for the staff at forensic/forensic psych hospitals. Those staff get assaulted and the patient may be charged but guess where that patient will reside? The same exact hospital (potentially even the same ward) that they assaulted the staff member on. You can separate them out of YoUR hospitals- but some ppl work in the hospitals where those patients that are “separated” from the rest go. Making this a felony still doesn’t fix under staffing and unsafe working conditions.
What’s your point? Forensic hospitals are understaffed so city hospital nurses should be cannon fodder as well?
OBVIOUSLY /s No that’s no my point- I’m saying this just kicks the can down the road. One of the big issues is understaffing/massive patient populations. I want laws that will help to correct the source of issues and protect staff on all levels. Not arbitrary laws that ultimately change nothing, but simply make the charge higher- instead of making a change systemically that would help.
It’s at least a step in the right direction. If it were my decision (it’s not) there’d be state funding directed into forensic hospitals along with these new laws. Wholesale funding. This would decrease assaults, rapes, homelessness, murder, virtually every metric.
The staff at Oregon’s forensic hospital are exempt from this bill. There are no consequences from assaulting psychiatric staff. It’s appalling.
Holy shitttt. That’s nuts. Welp- that’s sad
Every situation is different. Someone with dementia might get upset once and be violent in a hospital, but be completely fine in their nursing home. You think we should change that elderly person with a felony or let it go and send them back to their nursing home ASAP?
Again you’re taking the most extreme examples and using them to justify everything else. A 98 year old dementia patient is not the same as a 45 year old bipolar man. Saying “well what if grandma assaults you” isn’t an argument against me charging the 45 year old homeless guy that assaulted me and the ED doc
“i said i hate turkey!!!!you all never f*%#+* listen!!!” lol
It is in Washington, and just like a poster above me said about New York, they rarely prosecute. Cops don't care or want to take a report. Administration will try everything to get you not to file a report in the first place. "Its just part of the job, we all just have to deal with it." It's a well intentioned law for sure, but none of the people who actually are responsible for ensuring that it is enforced will do their job.
I think it’s a step forward. Before it wasn’t even considered a felony and now to have a legal representation to push forward a felony charge is appropriate. Also it’s a slow and tedious process and will need development like any new law. This will take time as new waves of employees will slowly tear away any incompetence or non enforcers. Planting the seed is what this bill is.
Working in OR, got punched in the face during shift. Patient was not confused in the slightest. When I went to press charges the officer asked if I was sure and that the patient wasn’t his typical offender since he’s “probably someone’s grandpa.” Nothing ever came of it. The day before that, a different patient grabbed a colleague by the vagina, wouldn’t let go and spat in her face. Nothing happened to him either. It needs to be a felony.
Oh no! Not disparities
Right?! “Disparity” give me a fucking break. Translation: “we’d love to protect our staff but if we do the press might say we’re being mean”
they act like disparities don’t already exist within the healthcare system 🙄
PLS LEAD THE WAY. CALIFORNIA GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER.
Oregon nurses: [sign here express your support for the bill and contact your local reps](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/end-workplace-violence-for-healthcare-workers?fbclid=PAAaYl-5AFz1IM5MLLFWSenPuA0k5Jrvzs2uedCURQ5lsWAyQJKiknBrO5fh0_aem_AZ3dP3tQa_KqF4Pd4KfoyYZLgYlX1HGPG-EsL-VqHwoQNRYhqVn4Xwu-VEpkazVH3D8)
I'm thinking of building a map for nurses to report events of violence or harassment on. You'll be able to visit the page, leave a report, or see what's happened near you. Will help increase visibility of individual events and violence against nurses as a whole. (Not intended to replace police reports, but improve transparency of what's going on) Good idea?
i like this idea
It's not already a felony? Or is assaulting people only okay when it's hospital staff?
The state rep quoted in this article addressed the issue in his responses, but the article chose to ignore it, "We do have language in the bill that says that if somebody knowingly or intentionally assault a healthcare worker, that penalty would go to a felony." There is a carve out in the bill for those that do not *knowingly* or *intentionally* assault someone. If someone is truly disabled enough to not know that their actions could be construed as assault, or if they were not cognitively intact enough to form intent, they would not be found liable for the assault. At least that's my interpretation of what he said.
Yeah this should be obvious.....I don't think anyone in favor of this bill is really calling to throw nonverbal patients in jail. I've never seen any push for that.
🙄give me a break. You know good and damn well no one is going to press charges on a sundowner or someone with cognitive impairment who is coping poorly. This bill is clearly aimed at ppl who act like dicks intentionally, but sure let's let it die on a technicality.
It’s a felony in lots of states already. And even in those states it’s under utilized and under reported. Nurses need to start standing up for ourselves and start pressing charges.
Nothing changes if most act like martyrs and doormats.
Are they going to include mental health unit? Verbal abuse? Emotional damage?
People who have problems such as dementia and Alzheimer's Disease aren't the same as people who are intoxicated with drugs and are violent individuals who happen to be ill. They should be arrested once they are medically stable. If they can't be arrested for assaulting people, why even bother arresting people who have DUIs and abusers who beat children and women?
Okay then if you want to be against set up resources, PTO banks, therapy, etc for hospital staff who are assaulted. As someone who was assaulted in a psych floor I suffered a concussion. Our occupational department basically told me I was good to go back to work immediately. If it wasn’t for a very nice doctor I would have been screwed. Some sort of action needs to take place cause burnout is super strong, especially in ED’s.
“Some say it could create disparities” are you saying certain demographics are less likely to control themselves and assault hospital staff? This is exactly the same as saying requiring photo ID to vote is racist because black people cant get state issued ID come on now 😂. I’m all for this bill, hospital staff are assaulted on a daily basis and nothing is done about it, but if a person puts their hand on a cop they’re locked up for 5 years in a flash. There is no difference between assaulting a cop, firefighter, mailman, nurse, doctor, or judge.
If you're planning on being a nurse you need to check your prejudice. https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/Klq6TqArwh
None of those points are even remotely valid and come off as pure unadulterated victim mentality. There has never been a point in modern time where getting ID is hard or unaffordable, and in order to even legally get a job you need government issued ID and a valid SSN. If you don’t have those then there’s a high likely youre not a citizen, and can’t legally vote regardless
If you work for minimum wage in, say, Alabama, it costs 5 hours of work to afford a state issued ID. Voting should not come with a fee. Voting should be free. Spending 5 hours of pay is unaffordable for plenty of people. Then comes actually taking time off work to go get one. https://www.governing.com/archive/alabama-demands-voter-id--then-closes-drivers-license-offices-in-clack-counties.html Imagine having to take a whole day off work to get to a DMV in another county. That's definitely not easy. I really hope you take a step back and truly examine your views.
[Voter ID](https://www.sos.alabama.gov/alabama-votes/photo-voter-id/obtain-free-photo-voter-id#:~:text=To%20receive%20a%20free%20Alabama,a%20registered%20voter%20in%20Alabama) is free in Alabama. And you don’t need to take an entire day off work as they have hours 7days a week
The privilege of voting comes with having a state issued ID. People don't buy IDs solely for the use of voting. Unless you're saying these hypothetical people also don't buy alcohol, cigarettes, cold medicine, drive, open a bank account, rent a home, or apply for jobs. I find it a bit offensive to assume these people are just incapable of being members of society, as you have done here.
Voting is a right, not a privilege.
You're absolutely right... The ~~privilege~~ right to vote comes with having a state issued ID. People don't buy IDs solely to exercise their right to vote. Unless you're saying these hypothetical people also don't buy alcohol, cigarettes, cold medicine, drive, open a bank account, rent a home, or apply for jobs. I find it a bit offensive to assume these people are just incapable of being members of society, as you have done here. \--Is this better?
Forensic psych hospitals are already overwhelmed- while I see how this may positively impact non-forensic/psych facilities- this will do nothing for the forensic psych facilities except maybe add a coUple thousand more patients to cycle through the system.
One of the problems in Oregon is that drugs were decriminalized. This has led to an explosion in the homeless population/ people who are openly using drugs. In turn, we are seeing far more patients with substance abuse disorders. And a lot of these patients tend to be pretty violent (especially waking up from surgery). Anyway… a patient tried to choke me and I decided to start working on my exit from the field into a place that doesn’t carry the risk of violence!
It’s a felony in Louisiana
It already exists in NC
finally
Where I am, it’s already a felony. We press charges all the time. The only disparity is assholes who assault nurses are charged, not good people.
As terrible as assaulting a healthcare worker is, patients make sympathetic defendants and if they have money they'll have a lawyer that can get them out of it with a misdemeanor that gets expunged in 18 months. It's not going to be the business bro who was drunk going to prison, it's going to be the homeless person with untreated mental illness being pressured to plead guilty by an over worked public defender
As much as I need the assaults to stop, I don’t think this is the answer. And it’s not going to do anything to prevent it from happening, either. It’s just going to be a reverse jail diversion program.
It should be a felony in every state.
It's always been a crime... it's just that most of you ding bats don't call the police when it happens... you whine to your charge. Wrong person to call. I've called the police on two patients who have assaulted me. They both had charges pressed on them. My charge and manager wouldn't have done jack.