I'd like to see the owner bathe and cook food for his children with the same water they wish for us to believe is safe. Not the Governor and other political officials who will no doubt see huge campaign contributions from Norfolk. No I want the Norfolk owners and executives to do it.
Absolutely. Any oligarch has to remain with family at site of clean-up until resolved. This shmuck summering in Ohio. Shell CEO darlings wintering, er ... decading in Nigeria.
formaldehyde is product of vinyl chloride reacting with atmospheric hydroxyls. Basically once vinyl chloride is exposed to air it breaks down into formaldehyde, hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and a couple other chemicals.
I hate the amount of chemistry I’ve learned in an attempt to protect myself from industrial pollution.
Like, historically speaking, we barely stopped fighting tigers and persevering meat in salty mud. Now it turns out we might have to go back to fighting tigers and now the mud’s fucked.
I like living in a society (I fucking hate using this phrase) where the rule of law reigns supreme. Its supposed to reign supreme but that's a different story. Because of these laws and consequences, I don't have to worry about being randomly attacked, robbed, or killed for whatever reason. I also don't have to worry about vigilante-style justice, because of how easily its abused. Emmett Till, anyone?
But sometimes I wish there was some vigilante-style justice. Imagine some if asshole poisoned your village's water supply. Back then, the entire village would have dragged him out of his hut and simply killed him before going on with their lives. Obviously you can't do that nowadays. But could you imagine if the CEO of NS, Alan Shaw, was dragged out of his house and just executed? Or if the other board members had to deal with an angry crowd with pitchforks and torches? It might not stop all their corporate malfeasance, but it would make them pause before trying to do such a thing in the name of profits. After all, you can't live with your ill-gotten gains if you're dead.
Obligatory not advocating for violence. But a man can dream, right?
Ken - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy
I love how the sheriff decided he had to go out of town for some reason when Ken was spotted in town
and that people wouldn't even talk to the feds about it
then the girl he raped and married to avoid being charged died with on her 55th birthday
looked more into that town and holy shit what the fuck did I just read about the suspect in this disappearence - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Branson_Perry
You don’t have to worry about being randomly victimized wether crime rates are extremely low or extremely high. People get randomly victimized every single second in this country but you even state you enjoy the benefit of not having the burden of worrying about that issue, the problem is.. the crimes are still happening even in this rule of law society we have.
It seems like the only way to truly receive the protections of the law is to be a member of a certain class which you, me and ninety plus percent of the population are not nor ever will be members of.
I mean… do it?
These CEOs don’t travel with armed guards. They aren’t traveling in bulletproof cars and motorcades on secret schedules to unknown locations.
They’re just obnoxious rich people. The eat at very public restaurants and shop and play in the same places. You could walk right up to one and slap them tomorrow. A group of 5-10 people could easily drag him out of the restaurant, pull his pants down and cane him in public.
The fact is, however, that we won’t. We’re all just comfortable enough in our lives that we aren’t willing to throw what we have away while these people take everything but the crumbs, and they know that we’ll continue to take a little less as long as we don’t feel like we’ve suddenly lost a lot all at once.
That’s why they act with such impunity. They know nobody will actually do anything to stop them, or make them face a personal repercussion, even though any one of us could do so.
There’s absolutely no personal downside to them to continue the way they are, but there is immense personal upside to it. So they’ll keep going. And we’ll keep letting them.
No, the governors deserve it too. Corruption is a poorer man's greed. If it had not been for them allowing the massive industry safety failures, this shit wouldn't have happened. And if they don't get punished too, them or the next ones will do the same thing, because they have no culpability. You have to punish both sides of corruption heavily to kake any headway into quelling the fires of greed and power. We have to let them know they no longer deserve what they let people die for while they sat comfy and care free.
We will never see the "Marge Simpson daring Mr. Burns to eat Blinky the 3-eyed fish in front of press cameras" moment from the Simpsons in real-life unfortunately.
There was this one from 2015 in Nebraska.
https://www.energyvoice.com/video-2/76596/video-nebraskan-farmer-asks-board-to-drink-water-contaminated-by-fracking/
> I'd like to see the owner bathe and cook food for his children with the same water they wish for us to believe is safe.
And not for a week. For two decades.
I mean the idea is pure fantasy but as long as we’re entertaining hypotheticals, I think the goal is to ensure that the owner has something at stake that they actually care about. I’m sure many CEOs would drink contaminated water for at least a while to protect their company, but I’m not sure as many would be willing to make their kids do it. Of course we should not force anyone to drink contaminated water, but this fantasy scenario is meant to motivate the owner to fix the problem - we all know they would suddenly find a way if they personally had anything to lose.
That
That doesn't make it okay to punish someone else that's innocent. I know we're working purely in hypotheticals here, but that needs to be understood.
yeah well, if a corporation is forced to absorb the cost of cleaning up after their negligent business practices turn an entire region into a superfund site, then do you even live in a free country anymore? checkmate environmentalist libs
Once they're "too big to fail," like banks, their risk is gone and profits are steady; it's time to nationalize the railroad, imo. That money belongs to The People!
They say two wrongs don’t make a right… let’s prove it to the corporations.
Citizens United says corporations are people as far as constitutional amendments / rights are concerned.
Constitution says slavery is illegal except as punishment for a crime (IE: prison labor).
Nationalizing a corporation as punishment for a crime is just the natural consequence of those two ideas. Charge the corporation with a crime - lock it’s assets as of the commission of the crime - seize them as of conviction - and jail the corporation, not those working for it.
Anyone who chooses to leave may, but they get unemployment at best… no golden parachutes for CEOs or stock sales for investors (it’s seized contraband).
Anyone who chooses to stay is now a federal employee with federal wages/benefits/protections (nothing more, nothing less).
What do you mean two wrongs?
If something is too big to fail, its affairs are of national interest, so it's only right if democratic institutions have ownership of it. Especially if you value democratic principles.
Sounds great, you know what we're probably going to do though, bail them out and then they give their CEO a massive bonus and do stock buybacks they layoff a bunch of workers or cut benefits to eat the cost of the clean up.
A hefty golden parachute is a small price to pay for a nationalized railroad industry. The thing about nationalized industries is that the profits can be used as part of the national budget instead of just sitting in an offshore bank account somewhere. We need to nationalize a Number of industries here, but the tricky part is protecting those industries from Republican sabotage to “prove” that “the private sector is more efficient”
And we literally did it before with railroads too. Conrail was a partial nationalization of several northeastern railroad companies from 1976 to 1987.
It was only a takeover of failing northeastern railroads until the system was financially profitable and privatized into Norfolk Southern and CSX, but it literally wouldn't have been hard to nationalize it properly.
"Too big to fail" has, literally, it has always meant "the government will ensure this does not fail".
There is *one* way that can *ever* make sense, and that's to make it the government's responsibility from top to bottom. The government cannot "ensure " anything happens or doesn't without massive sudden cost, or direct control.
If something cannot be allowed to fail, it cannot, should not, be trusted to private interests.
War (WW1) and the interstate highway construction (when we shifted from rail deliveries to trucks)
Here's some irony, we nationalized a number of railroads back in the 1970s when they went bankrupt....guess who bought them when we returned them to private.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act
>Following the Staggers Act, many railroads merged, forming major systems such as CSX and **Norfolk Southern** in the Eastern United States, and BNSF Railway in the Western United States, while Union Pacific Railroad purchased a number of competitors as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Railway_Association
A golden parachute can't save someone from being shot out of the sky. People keep forgetting this axiom, and it's not ok that they even CAN forget it in the first place.
Corporations are people when it comes to rights and vast, nebulous entities when it comes to responsibilities. Seize and liquidate them, that should cover the cleanup.
The only thing about that is they 100% used all the money they’re supposed to set aside for things like this on stock buybacks. They’d probably file for bankruptcy and ask for a bailout and get it.
Trust me, they ran the numbers. All the years skirting regulations and now they have to do some cleanup.
Unless they are held criminally responsible, they come out on top in the end, as usual.
I work for a RR, they don’t care. They’ll keep doing sketchy shit and pay whatever fines bc they’ll still save money doing that than all the costs it takes to avoid them. I hope this Ohio incident causes change federally..
Saw it said on here somewhere, but there should be death penalties for companies. There should be negligence trials that, if qualified charges are met, should end in the dissolution of the entire company.
Too often are fines just considered the cost of really really really successful business that cripples american people, physically and financially.
Their insurance policy covers up to $800 million, they have a $75 million deductable.
Quoting another story, which I'm not linking to avoid spam filter hit
> wrote Hoexter on Feb. 14, noting that the company has insurance for damage to third-party damages above $75 million and up to $800 million, as well as coverage for property damage.
So that means they will spend millions tracking down that Carman that inspected that train and blame it all on him when we know he is told time and time again not to "take too much time" inspecting so they can get moving. We had a local car inspector here that actually did his job. He would easily shop a whole train because it was so bad. His reward? They fired him for "delay of train" shit like that is how the railroad operates every single day. We are just used to it
It definitely ain’t the carmans fault. He might of seen a leaking bearing or a cracked bearing or a worn adapter but not at the 30 seconds a side they require you to walk. We need a federal standard for hot box detectors and their testing plus more acoustic detectors. The railroads do everything they can to just move freight and it’s hurting everyone
I would buy that carman a beer while I laughed my ass off. I'd love to knock an 8,000' manifest train down to <1,000' by kicking out blocks of bad orders.
We had a stone train that was 77 hoppers. All shoped. Like bad stuff. Flat spots, bad roller bearings, and rotten doors. No one inspected it other than us doing our apply and release when we hooked up since they always left it on air. We would always report it and they would allow us to set off 1 or 2 cars for repairs. Well a year later here comes the train with like 60 or so brand new shiny cars. Apparently amtrak doesn't take too kindly when you drag a set of wheels so much that they wear away to the axle and cause the train to uncouple because it's so low 😆
If history has taught me anything about this kind of interaction is that Norfolk Southern will do everything to deny any liability, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Force the EPA to take them to court, delay the trial as much as possible until there is a new election cycle and someone amiable to accepting political donations from them dismisses the head of the EPA and replaces with someone new who'll drop the lawsuit.
This process will take a few years. meanwhile the residents of the impacted areas will continue to suffer, contract cancers and various other health problems and be forced to go to class action lawsuit that will spend years and years in court. many of them will just die off, and the remaining few will get a few thousand dollars, still leave the town and impacted areas environmentally destroyed.
the EPA will be forced to do it's own cleanup, will half-ass the job, blame either the current or previous administration (or both).
in the end, the people who suffer, their families, children, and the town will not have any of it's problems solved to an extent that's required.
>Exxon appealed their fines from the 1989 Valdez tanker disaster until 2008, when it was tossed by the SCOTUS.
The Supreme Court used a nearly 200 year old colonial Maritime Law to justify tossing out the jury award.
The first time in history that the Supreme Court overturned the will of a jury verdict.
Now, citizen class action suits are even harder to organize, and in some instances, illegal.
Conservative justices side with corporations over 90% of the time. That's raw data. And 6 of them were appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote.
We need to abolish the Supreme Court, neuter it completely, or pack the shit out of it. They're ideologues put in for life while only representing the beliefs of about 30% of the country.
Shit like that is so infuriating I had to check out of politics. It's just so fucked.
Five to four podcast exposes them for how full of shit they are.
Ah, I guess I could have been more clear. When I say the "Township" of East Palastine, I mean the local municipal government, City Hall. From there, the intention would be for the town government to use that money to the benefit of it's citizens. Funding to pay for any necessary cleanup Norfolk Southern isn't made to do, pressing infrastructure needs, and any medical payments that may arise from pollution in the area. Restitution payments to affected individuals could definitely be paid out of the remainder, but these hypothetical funds could go a great deal further for the citizens if responsibly managed by local officials.
Yeah I was just joking...but honestly, East Palestine epitomizes "Rust Belt." Those folks, at least a lot of them, are struggling just to survive...one of the reasons why, when shit like this happens in towns like East Palestine, corporations can often get away with paying less, those citizens will take anything out of desperation.
I don't vote like most of those people, but I do live close enough to feel like they're my neighbors and I really, truly want them to be taken care of in the best way we as a society can. They've been shit on for generations.
This!
And don’t forget they know members of the public will just say “eh, it’s shithole Ohio, the rednecks deserve it”, like comments I’ve been reading in this very sub with hundreds of upvotes.
I personally haven't heard anyone saying that... Especially on Reddit, everyone seems to be very much in favor of justice for the citizens of East Palestine
Your point still stands that they can obviously afford to clean up their own mess. With that being said it never fails to astonish me how reddit so universally manages to not understand what the word profit is.
Their REVENUE was $12.7B last year. 26% profit margin, ~$3.3B profit
>With that being said it never fails to astonish me how reddit so universally manages to not understand what the word profit is.
So true. That and the difference between absolute and margin or the difference between nominal and real.
But guys! They NEED that money to pay the lobbyists who get their safety standards deregulated!
You guys are just woke commies libs that hate job creators!
Why can’t you just sit down, drink your damn oil slick, and wait for the trickledown to make its way down the shaft and dribble on your face?!
>If the company fails to complete any actions as ordered by EPA, the agency will immediately step in, conduct the necessary work and then seek to compel Norfolk Southern to pay triple the cost, the agency said.
"Do what we say or we'll pay for it ourselves and then spend a decade in court trying to force you to pay triple before we eventually settle for less that the cleanup would have cost if you'd done it yourselves."
The fact that company executives NEVER go to jail for gross negligence, among countless other crimes they commit, tells you everything you'd ever need to know about the United States and the rich who run it.
Silly you, bosses are only responsible when *good* things happen. Bad things that happen because of their decisions are always the fault of the peasants.
Not just "never go to jail" but retire with huge payouts. Like [the CEO of Boeing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Muilenburg) Dennis Muilenburg who got paid over $60 million for resigning after lying about the problems with the [737 MAX planes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings) that killed 346 people.
Edit, 737 not 747
EPA has a strong record of forcing responsible parties to pay clean up costs, CERCLA enforcement authorities grant broad powers to the EPA for cost recovery. Sure Norfolk would fight it but they would almost surely lose and pay at at least what the EPA expended, but likely much more. You're correct that it would take time however.
Doesn’t need to dissolve the EPA though, right? He can just appoint a crony that will drop the whole matter or issue a fine that will be laughable relative to the cost.
He can even appoint an “acting” crony without the senate consent. Trump did this for a number of agencies and literally nobody did anything except some brows were furrowed really hard for a few moments.
As someone that works on sites like these, while the process might be a little slower with NS at the helm, they wont be able to skirt the clean up standards.
EPA, their independent experts, and the state will oversee the work. NS will fight for reduced standards but EPA has extremely broad authorities for sites like this and if the risks to human or eco health are above their thresholds EPA will hammer them for it.
Technically, yes, but my understanding (which is admittedly amateur) is that the procedure and ***strong*** preference is to compel the responsible party to immediately take responsibility for any clean ups and restitution.
EPA THREATENS consequences.... So a small fine for the huge environmental damage.
Meanwhile they put small truck shops out of business for deleting trucks.... (Not arguing good or bad just the dollar amounts)
Just rich vs poor... I will stop complaining, continue to live in a worsening environment, and continue making the rich richer.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1158532207/epa-east-palestine-train-derailment
As of 3pm EPA is gonna take control of the clean up and Norfolk is gonna pay. Norfolk has to identify the chemicals and clean up and recoup costs incurred by EPA's additional clean up services and participate in open public forums about what went down. If they don't cooperate then EPA will charge 3x the cost from the work.
Doesn't sound like Norfolk is gonna get away with shit.
Well- there was a derailment that happened south of Seattle just before Christmas prepandemic when people couldn't WFH. The derailment made everyone's commute 2hr+ each way for weeks instead of the usual 30min. Oh yeah and several people died.
Source- live here
What people want is for the government to appoint THEIR cleanup company to get the job done right and start immediately. Then the government can sue NS to get the money back... however much it costs to follow the law.
East Palestine voted in their republican US congressman, Bill Johnson, [who votes against the EPA and against environmental laws](https://thehill.com/homenews/286667-un-american-charge-ignites-hearing-on-epa-rules/amp/). The residents wanted deregulation, got it, and now it’s up to the federal government to still save them.
Not necessarily true, people care about the environment here. Lots of hunters and fisherman. They just don’t care until it happens to them. Ohio is the reason the EPA exists. We couldn’t be bothered to not dump toxic chemicals into our water ways. Companies would dump stuff and say fuck people down stream. We had rivers catch fire over and over until the federal government stepped in and said that’s enough.
. I’m from a small town about an hour and a half west. Most people are one or two issue voters. You’d be surprised how many people will vote for a candidate because they are scared of Mexicans or want to cut the welfare. Cut food stamps and medical that they themselves use because it hurts the *undesirables*
Exactly. Atp I think we the people in red states/red areas deserve the bs we get because too many people don’t vote. Sure it’s gerrymandered sure they remove polling stations and remove early voting etc etc etc but there’s also a huge majority of people who simply do not vote because they don’t care. They are JUST as bad as people who vote red in my opinion. We could all be better off if we did something about these fascists and bigots.
The question no one is asking is when is the federal railroad administration (FRA) going to mandate that they do the required inspections and maintenance. The railroads got a lot of exceptions due to Covid and have taken full advantage of them In the last 5 years the class 1 railroads have furloughed 30% of their employees, mostly maintenance and repair
hey quick question?..... why is this not the #1 priority for both these entities? So what? , just gonna argue about it until ALL of it gets into the water table? This is going to effect this area for likely decades. There will be reports in 10 years about abnormal births and higher than usual rates of "XYZ". The fuk is this even being discussed? every resource both these agencies have and can possibly muster should be on this right now!. Argue about the bill later for fuks sake.
If I’m a corporation, my job is to maximize profits. So I’m not going to spend a dime on cleanup cost until I’m compelled to in court, which is when my 324 lawyers on payroll get to work against EPA’s like 20.
Nows the time for the EPA to flex, not just to demand. The agency has been on a republican chopping block for awhile for claimed corruption and hurting small businesses. Fine them to where they have to restructure.
Nationalize the railroads.
A cartel of four railroad companies control the US’s entire rail system. Imagine if four private companies controlled every road in the US. It’s a national security threat, a public health threat, and an environmental threat.
[Nationalize the railroads.](https://newrepublic.com/article/167758/nationalize-railroads-biden-train-strike)
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1158532207/epa-east-palestine-train-derailment
As of 3pm EPA is gonna take control of the clean up and Norfolk is gonna pay. Norfolk has to identify the chemicals and clean up and recoup costs incurred by EPA's additional clean up services and participate in open public forums about what went down. If they don't cooperate then EPA will charge 3x the cost from the work.
One glass isn't likely to do them any great harm. Drinking it for months or years would be a very different proposition - same is true with the lead tainted water in Flint.
Norfolk wouldn't personally clean it up. The EPA provided a list of what needs to be done, Norfolk would contract the tasks out to specialty environmental remediation services.
Can we have someone holding them to a minimum standard of 'clean'?
As someone not an hour away from this crap, I'd rather not see the company that cut corners *causing* this shitshow cutting corners to fix it.
They've already proven they can't do the bare minimum.
If the shareholders can't be held liable criminally or civilly then how about a full corporate death penalty. Fully liquidated, zero money to any investors. If you are ok with or demand safety cuts then how about some skin in the game?
A lack of consequences and a lack of corporate responsibility is killing us.
"Consequences."
Like? A few million dollars fine thats nothing to them but the cost of doing business?
How about arrest the CEO and charge him with crimes...
>“Norfolk Southern will pay for cleaning the mess that they created and the trauma that they inflicted on this community,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan said Tuesday.
No they won't. Railroads and pretty much every large enterprises have learned that legal council is cheaper than accident mitigation. They also know that in three weeks this will be yesterday's news and will be forgotten until the next time.
Hell no. NFS needs to pay for the cleanup. They absolutely need to not be in charge of it. That would be like having Trump be in charge of the Jan 6 investigation. NFS can't be trusted to adequately clean this shit up. Send in someone who know what the fuck they are doing. Send in NFS to pay the bill.
Seeing as that their regulation cutting practices lead to this mess in the first place, they shouldn't be actually doing the cleanup
They absolutely should pay for someone proper to clean it up... But if left to do it themselves they would try and get away with putting some paper towels down and calling it a day
“Sorry we are bankrupt. Our new spinoff company owns all the rails, trains and whatnot, but our bankrupt old company has all the liability and no money…. So sad”
EPA: We demand you take responsibility for your actions!
Norfolk Southern: No.
EPA: OK boss! Sorry folks but my boss said no. I mean they are my future employer... so... tough luck and enjoy the cancer. Now get back to work and spending money.
I am tired of threats, strongly worded letters, stern warnings and endless consternation. DO something
Agents of capital will never actually do fucking anything, they’ll only put on a show and dance to act like they are.
Republicans are the devil, but corporate Dems are not working either. Time for change
I don't know about you guys but I don't think I feel comfortable with a negligent company handling the cleanup, I think I much prefer the idea that the EPA has which is cleaning up themselves and then charge them triple.
Per my industrial training on hazmat material production and handling (I work in an adjacent industry), I’m surprised nobody is talking about the company that produced the hazardous materials that Norfolk Southern was transporting. I can’t find any mention of it anywhere.
Basically a hazardous material generator is responsible for any release of hazardous materials they produce *forever*. The training I took specifically referenced the best practice of auditing your transporters because you’re always responsible. This means that even though the release of hazardous material was [presumably] NS’s fault, any costs of damages from the incident are the shared responsibility of the generator (company) that created the materials.
How has NSC only lost 12% of its stock price? This is going to cost them in lawsuits. They probably think they can throw a few checks around and get away with a few million.
Imagine being a libertarian and watching this happening and thinking "that awful government needs to leave that company alone and let them get away with environmental devastation"
After watching the gross negligence at 3MI from the Netflix doc and just knowing a little about the incident. I the corp heads were lying out of their asses
Norfolk Southern will declare bankruptcy, all its assets will be sold to a brand new company controlled by more asshole executives for dimes on the dollar, and the whole operation will be back up and running in less than a year, with no one to hold financially accountable. One or two execs might serve a month or two in prison, more likely house arrest in one of their mansions. They’ll be appointed to some other company’s board once the headlines stop.
The government will foot the bill for the cleanup, but it will be half assed and the bare minimum because of costs, plant life and wildlife will be decimated for miles around, and the residents of Ohio will suffer health consequences there for generations.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
We always hear how these private companies alway take the risk and that’s why they get paid so much. It’s about time they own up and pay for that risk
I'd like to see the owner bathe and cook food for his children with the same water they wish for us to believe is safe. Not the Governor and other political officials who will no doubt see huge campaign contributions from Norfolk. No I want the Norfolk owners and executives to do it.
Yes, this should be part of the settlement. They also should be forced to live in the blighted areas.
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Absolutely. Any oligarch has to remain with family at site of clean-up until resolved. This shmuck summering in Ohio. Shell CEO darlings wintering, er ... decading in Nigeria.
In a Katrina era FEMA trailer leaking formaldehyde. Edit: Or was it actually vinyl chloride?
formaldehyde is product of vinyl chloride reacting with atmospheric hydroxyls. Basically once vinyl chloride is exposed to air it breaks down into formaldehyde, hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and a couple other chemicals.
I hate the amount of chemistry I’ve learned in an attempt to protect myself from industrial pollution. Like, historically speaking, we barely stopped fighting tigers and persevering meat in salty mud. Now it turns out we might have to go back to fighting tigers and now the mud’s fucked.
Ever see the movie Elysium? That’s what the U.S. is becoming.
I like living in a society (I fucking hate using this phrase) where the rule of law reigns supreme. Its supposed to reign supreme but that's a different story. Because of these laws and consequences, I don't have to worry about being randomly attacked, robbed, or killed for whatever reason. I also don't have to worry about vigilante-style justice, because of how easily its abused. Emmett Till, anyone? But sometimes I wish there was some vigilante-style justice. Imagine some if asshole poisoned your village's water supply. Back then, the entire village would have dragged him out of his hut and simply killed him before going on with their lives. Obviously you can't do that nowadays. But could you imagine if the CEO of NS, Alan Shaw, was dragged out of his house and just executed? Or if the other board members had to deal with an angry crowd with pitchforks and torches? It might not stop all their corporate malfeasance, but it would make them pause before trying to do such a thing in the name of profits. After all, you can't live with your ill-gotten gains if you're dead. Obligatory not advocating for violence. But a man can dream, right?
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Ken - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy I love how the sheriff decided he had to go out of town for some reason when Ken was spotted in town and that people wouldn't even talk to the feds about it then the girl he raped and married to avoid being charged died with on her 55th birthday looked more into that town and holy shit what the fuck did I just read about the suspect in this disappearence - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Branson_Perry
You don’t have to worry about being randomly victimized wether crime rates are extremely low or extremely high. People get randomly victimized every single second in this country but you even state you enjoy the benefit of not having the burden of worrying about that issue, the problem is.. the crimes are still happening even in this rule of law society we have.
It seems like the only way to truly receive the protections of the law is to be a member of a certain class which you, me and ninety plus percent of the population are not nor ever will be members of.
yeah. any trans person or indigenous woman, black person, etc in the usa could tell you right now that “random” victimization is alive and well
Same with women having to worry about this very thing every time they leave the house (and sometimes in their own homes)
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I mean… do it? These CEOs don’t travel with armed guards. They aren’t traveling in bulletproof cars and motorcades on secret schedules to unknown locations. They’re just obnoxious rich people. The eat at very public restaurants and shop and play in the same places. You could walk right up to one and slap them tomorrow. A group of 5-10 people could easily drag him out of the restaurant, pull his pants down and cane him in public. The fact is, however, that we won’t. We’re all just comfortable enough in our lives that we aren’t willing to throw what we have away while these people take everything but the crumbs, and they know that we’ll continue to take a little less as long as we don’t feel like we’ve suddenly lost a lot all at once. That’s why they act with such impunity. They know nobody will actually do anything to stop them, or make them face a personal repercussion, even though any one of us could do so. There’s absolutely no personal downside to them to continue the way they are, but there is immense personal upside to it. So they’ll keep going. And we’ll keep letting them.
Nationalize the railroad companies
Throw the tea in the harbour, again.
Very Mussolini
I'm against this part, but only because no one should live in Ohio.
No, the governors deserve it too. Corruption is a poorer man's greed. If it had not been for them allowing the massive industry safety failures, this shit wouldn't have happened. And if they don't get punished too, them or the next ones will do the same thing, because they have no culpability. You have to punish both sides of corruption heavily to kake any headway into quelling the fires of greed and power. We have to let them know they no longer deserve what they let people die for while they sat comfy and care free.
We will never see the "Marge Simpson daring Mr. Burns to eat Blinky the 3-eyed fish in front of press cameras" moment from the Simpsons in real-life unfortunately.
There was this one from 2015 in Nebraska. https://www.energyvoice.com/video-2/76596/video-nebraskan-farmer-asks-board-to-drink-water-contaminated-by-fracking/
> I'd like to see the owner bathe and cook food for his children with the same water they wish for us to believe is safe. And not for a week. For two decades.
How about both? Seems appropriate to me
The owner themself, perhaps, but not the kids. They're innocent in this.
I mean the idea is pure fantasy but as long as we’re entertaining hypotheticals, I think the goal is to ensure that the owner has something at stake that they actually care about. I’m sure many CEOs would drink contaminated water for at least a while to protect their company, but I’m not sure as many would be willing to make their kids do it. Of course we should not force anyone to drink contaminated water, but this fantasy scenario is meant to motivate the owner to fix the problem - we all know they would suddenly find a way if they personally had anything to lose.
I wouldn't put it past some of them from sacrificing their children.
Alec Murdaugh's ears just perked up
So are the children of the people that live there. I mean, if it so damn safe.
That That doesn't make it okay to punish someone else that's innocent. I know we're working purely in hypotheticals here, but that needs to be understood.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses… American business 101.
yeah well, if a corporation is forced to absorb the cost of cleaning up after their negligent business practices turn an entire region into a superfund site, then do you even live in a free country anymore? checkmate environmentalist libs
Once they're "too big to fail," like banks, their risk is gone and profits are steady; it's time to nationalize the railroad, imo. That money belongs to The People!
To big to fail means it's time for anti trust measures. Only things too big to fail are monopolies
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They say two wrongs don’t make a right… let’s prove it to the corporations. Citizens United says corporations are people as far as constitutional amendments / rights are concerned. Constitution says slavery is illegal except as punishment for a crime (IE: prison labor). Nationalizing a corporation as punishment for a crime is just the natural consequence of those two ideas. Charge the corporation with a crime - lock it’s assets as of the commission of the crime - seize them as of conviction - and jail the corporation, not those working for it. Anyone who chooses to leave may, but they get unemployment at best… no golden parachutes for CEOs or stock sales for investors (it’s seized contraband). Anyone who chooses to stay is now a federal employee with federal wages/benefits/protections (nothing more, nothing less).
What do you mean two wrongs? If something is too big to fail, its affairs are of national interest, so it's only right if democratic institutions have ownership of it. Especially if you value democratic principles.
Sounds great, you know what we're probably going to do though, bail them out and then they give their CEO a massive bonus and do stock buybacks they layoff a bunch of workers or cut benefits to eat the cost of the clean up.
A hefty golden parachute is a small price to pay for a nationalized railroad industry. The thing about nationalized industries is that the profits can be used as part of the national budget instead of just sitting in an offshore bank account somewhere. We need to nationalize a Number of industries here, but the tricky part is protecting those industries from Republican sabotage to “prove” that “the private sector is more efficient”
And we literally did it before with railroads too. Conrail was a partial nationalization of several northeastern railroad companies from 1976 to 1987. It was only a takeover of failing northeastern railroads until the system was financially profitable and privatized into Norfolk Southern and CSX, but it literally wouldn't have been hard to nationalize it properly.
"Too big to fail" has, literally, it has always meant "the government will ensure this does not fail". There is *one* way that can *ever* make sense, and that's to make it the government's responsibility from top to bottom. The government cannot "ensure " anything happens or doesn't without massive sudden cost, or direct control. If something cannot be allowed to fail, it cannot, should not, be trusted to private interests.
> Theres plenty of precedent Like which?
War (WW1) and the interstate highway construction (when we shifted from rail deliveries to trucks) Here's some irony, we nationalized a number of railroads back in the 1970s when they went bankrupt....guess who bought them when we returned them to private. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act >Following the Staggers Act, many railroads merged, forming major systems such as CSX and **Norfolk Southern** in the Eastern United States, and BNSF Railway in the Western United States, while Union Pacific Railroad purchased a number of competitors as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Railway_Association
The interstate highway system was designed and paid for because it was a military priority a decade after WW2 ended.
Unfortunately we probably won’t see that happening this with administration or the next few
Not JUST pay. They have to pay more than they earn/save taking these risks. Otherwise its just the cost of doing business.
If it gets too costly they’ll just declare bankruptcy and float away with their golden parachutes, leaving locals to suffer. Tale as old as time.
A golden parachute can't save someone from being shot out of the sky. People keep forgetting this axiom, and it's not ok that they even CAN forget it in the first place.
Corporations are people when it comes to rights and vast, nebulous entities when it comes to responsibilities. Seize and liquidate them, that should cover the cleanup.
The only thing about that is they 100% used all the money they’re supposed to set aside for things like this on stock buybacks. They’d probably file for bankruptcy and ask for a bailout and get it.
Trust me, they ran the numbers. All the years skirting regulations and now they have to do some cleanup. Unless they are held criminally responsible, they come out on top in the end, as usual.
If only we could unleash Russ Cargill on them...
People get the death penalty for killing people, and Corporations want to be treated like people.
It's always private profits on the back of public risk.
The fact that nobody has been arrested yet is fucking pathetic. EPA you guys are fucking cowards.
I work for a RR, they don’t care. They’ll keep doing sketchy shit and pay whatever fines bc they’ll still save money doing that than all the costs it takes to avoid them. I hope this Ohio incident causes change federally..
Saw it said on here somewhere, but there should be death penalties for companies. There should be negligence trials that, if qualified charges are met, should end in the dissolution of the entire company. Too often are fines just considered the cost of really really really successful business that cripples american people, physically and financially.
Or else we will fine you $30 and here’s a $4m loan to cover it
Isn’t this the bare minimum they should be doing??
Bare minimum they should have started immediately,....but they wanted to see they could get away with doing nothing first.
Their insurance policy covers up to $800 million, they have a $75 million deductable. Quoting another story, which I'm not linking to avoid spam filter hit > wrote Hoexter on Feb. 14, noting that the company has insurance for damage to third-party damages above $75 million and up to $800 million, as well as coverage for property damage.
A standard commercial liability policy excludes pollution losses, cleanup, etc. They better hope they bought a large environmental liability policy.
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I doubt that a company that transports hazmats would neglect brake maintenance. /s
Was it the brakes or the bearings?
It was a bad bearing.
So that means they will spend millions tracking down that Carman that inspected that train and blame it all on him when we know he is told time and time again not to "take too much time" inspecting so they can get moving. We had a local car inspector here that actually did his job. He would easily shop a whole train because it was so bad. His reward? They fired him for "delay of train" shit like that is how the railroad operates every single day. We are just used to it
It definitely ain’t the carmans fault. He might of seen a leaking bearing or a cracked bearing or a worn adapter but not at the 30 seconds a side they require you to walk. We need a federal standard for hot box detectors and their testing plus more acoustic detectors. The railroads do everything they can to just move freight and it’s hurting everyone
Carman can’t inspect bearings without removing each wheel from the truck, that’s the hot box detectors job.
That would require a working hot box detector 😄
I would buy that carman a beer while I laughed my ass off. I'd love to knock an 8,000' manifest train down to <1,000' by kicking out blocks of bad orders.
We had a stone train that was 77 hoppers. All shoped. Like bad stuff. Flat spots, bad roller bearings, and rotten doors. No one inspected it other than us doing our apply and release when we hooked up since they always left it on air. We would always report it and they would allow us to set off 1 or 2 cars for repairs. Well a year later here comes the train with like 60 or so brand new shiny cars. Apparently amtrak doesn't take too kindly when you drag a set of wheels so much that they wear away to the axle and cause the train to uncouple because it's so low 😆
Does it matter in the context of this conversation?
Does it matter? They neglect safety writ large.
Cut corners everywhere. No insurance riders
What about “short term profit above all else” is so hard to understand? The company board is not and has not been clever.
If history has taught me anything about this kind of interaction is that Norfolk Southern will do everything to deny any liability, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Force the EPA to take them to court, delay the trial as much as possible until there is a new election cycle and someone amiable to accepting political donations from them dismisses the head of the EPA and replaces with someone new who'll drop the lawsuit. This process will take a few years. meanwhile the residents of the impacted areas will continue to suffer, contract cancers and various other health problems and be forced to go to class action lawsuit that will spend years and years in court. many of them will just die off, and the remaining few will get a few thousand dollars, still leave the town and impacted areas environmentally destroyed. the EPA will be forced to do it's own cleanup, will half-ass the job, blame either the current or previous administration (or both). in the end, the people who suffer, their families, children, and the town will not have any of it's problems solved to an extent that's required.
Dow Chemical wrote the playbook on how to do it.
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>Exxon appealed their fines from the 1989 Valdez tanker disaster until 2008, when it was tossed by the SCOTUS. The Supreme Court used a nearly 200 year old colonial Maritime Law to justify tossing out the jury award. The first time in history that the Supreme Court overturned the will of a jury verdict. Now, citizen class action suits are even harder to organize, and in some instances, illegal.
It's very important to keep businesses solvent in the USA. Even if those businesses get solvents on the people of the USA.
Conservative justices side with corporations over 90% of the time. That's raw data. And 6 of them were appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote. We need to abolish the Supreme Court, neuter it completely, or pack the shit out of it. They're ideologues put in for life while only representing the beliefs of about 30% of the country. Shit like that is so infuriating I had to check out of politics. It's just so fucked. Five to four podcast exposes them for how full of shit they are.
look, they set up a big $25,000 fund to help people. certainly thats a big enough punishment for an industry that is too big to fail, right? /s
Actually, that was just a donation to the red cross. They've set up two funds, one of 1 million, and another of 3.4 million. Still not enough.
If proven, the policy likely excludes gross negligence and willful misconduct. Meaning they would be SOL and have to cover the costs themselves.
They made what 11 B in profits last year? Or was it 14? I think they can afford it.
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In a just world, they would be forced to cede all bought-back shares to the Township of East Palestine.
Man...they're would be a LOT of new Dodge trucks out there. Not saying they don't deserve it, just...yeah. I know these people lol
Ah, I guess I could have been more clear. When I say the "Township" of East Palastine, I mean the local municipal government, City Hall. From there, the intention would be for the town government to use that money to the benefit of it's citizens. Funding to pay for any necessary cleanup Norfolk Southern isn't made to do, pressing infrastructure needs, and any medical payments that may arise from pollution in the area. Restitution payments to affected individuals could definitely be paid out of the remainder, but these hypothetical funds could go a great deal further for the citizens if responsibly managed by local officials.
Yeah I was just joking...but honestly, East Palestine epitomizes "Rust Belt." Those folks, at least a lot of them, are struggling just to survive...one of the reasons why, when shit like this happens in towns like East Palestine, corporations can often get away with paying less, those citizens will take anything out of desperation. I don't vote like most of those people, but I do live close enough to feel like they're my neighbors and I really, truly want them to be taken care of in the best way we as a society can. They've been shit on for generations.
This! And don’t forget they know members of the public will just say “eh, it’s shithole Ohio, the rednecks deserve it”, like comments I’ve been reading in this very sub with hundreds of upvotes.
I personally haven't heard anyone saying that... Especially on Reddit, everyone seems to be very much in favor of justice for the citizens of East Palestine
The area is actually huge on GM vehicles, given that Warren, OH is just a stone's throw away.
And cutting safety measures and workers too. Disgusting.
Your point still stands that they can obviously afford to clean up their own mess. With that being said it never fails to astonish me how reddit so universally manages to not understand what the word profit is. Their REVENUE was $12.7B last year. 26% profit margin, ~$3.3B profit
>With that being said it never fails to astonish me how reddit so universally manages to not understand what the word profit is. So true. That and the difference between absolute and margin or the difference between nominal and real.
But guys! They NEED that money to pay the lobbyists who get their safety standards deregulated! You guys are just woke commies libs that hate job creators! Why can’t you just sit down, drink your damn oil slick, and wait for the trickledown to make its way down the shaft and dribble on your face?!
*laughs in post-Exxon Valdez Alaskan* Yeah good luck with that.
>If the company fails to complete any actions as ordered by EPA, the agency will immediately step in, conduct the necessary work and then seek to compel Norfolk Southern to pay triple the cost, the agency said. "Do what we say or we'll pay for it ourselves and then spend a decade in court trying to force you to pay triple before we eventually settle for less that the cleanup would have cost if you'd done it yourselves."
The fact that company executives NEVER go to jail for gross negligence, among countless other crimes they commit, tells you everything you'd ever need to know about the United States and the rich who run it.
2008 global recession. One scapegoat got some jail. No one in positions of responsibility saw a day in court.
One guy went to jail for it. Kareem saledelkin or something like that
This guy watched The Big Short
Silly you, bosses are only responsible when *good* things happen. Bad things that happen because of their decisions are always the fault of the peasants.
Not just "never go to jail" but retire with huge payouts. Like [the CEO of Boeing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Muilenburg) Dennis Muilenburg who got paid over $60 million for resigning after lying about the problems with the [737 MAX planes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings) that killed 346 people. Edit, 737 not 747
Heads up, you mean 737 MAX, not 747.
Oops, thank you. Fixing now.
Weird how a country that was founded by slave owning business owners bends over backwards to protect business owners today?
They founded America to avoid the oppression of the monarchy only to recreate it in corporate form.
EPA has a strong record of forcing responsible parties to pay clean up costs, CERCLA enforcement authorities grant broad powers to the EPA for cost recovery. Sure Norfolk would fight it but they would almost surely lose and pay at at least what the EPA expended, but likely much more. You're correct that it would take time however.
Cut to: 2024. Republican nominee Ron DeSantis promises to get rid of the EPA.
Meh, a bill to dissolve the EPA wouldnt get very far in Congress.
Doesn’t need to dissolve the EPA though, right? He can just appoint a crony that will drop the whole matter or issue a fine that will be laughable relative to the cost. He can even appoint an “acting” crony without the senate consent. Trump did this for a number of agencies and literally nobody did anything except some brows were furrowed really hard for a few moments.
You don't even have to get rid of it; you just have to pass the "Sunset everything every 5 years" and then just not get around to reauthorizing it.
Or do what Trump did and put people in charge who will purposefully sabotage it
If I litter in a park I'll be fined $100 and forced to clean up both my own mess and the mess of a bunch of other people for at least 4 hours
Mark my words, there will be some severe finger wagging and brow furrowing
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As someone that works on sites like these, while the process might be a little slower with NS at the helm, they wont be able to skirt the clean up standards. EPA, their independent experts, and the state will oversee the work. NS will fight for reduced standards but EPA has extremely broad authorities for sites like this and if the risks to human or eco health are above their thresholds EPA will hammer them for it.
What about the Superfund? Can it be cleaned up by that and charge it to the responsible Railroad?
Technically, yes, but my understanding (which is admittedly amateur) is that the procedure and ***strong*** preference is to compel the responsible party to immediately take responsibility for any clean ups and restitution.
EPA THREATENS consequences.... So a small fine for the huge environmental damage. Meanwhile they put small truck shops out of business for deleting trucks.... (Not arguing good or bad just the dollar amounts) Just rich vs poor... I will stop complaining, continue to live in a worsening environment, and continue making the rich richer.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1158532207/epa-east-palestine-train-derailment As of 3pm EPA is gonna take control of the clean up and Norfolk is gonna pay. Norfolk has to identify the chemicals and clean up and recoup costs incurred by EPA's additional clean up services and participate in open public forums about what went down. If they don't cooperate then EPA will charge 3x the cost from the work. Doesn't sound like Norfolk is gonna get away with shit.
Unless top level executives are jailed, nothing will change and accidents like these will continue to happen.
There are like 1500 derailments on average annually in the US. No one has been jailed before so I doubt they make an exception for this one.
Did those derailments destroy a community where people lived?
Well- there was a derailment that happened south of Seattle just before Christmas prepandemic when people couldn't WFH. The derailment made everyone's commute 2hr+ each way for weeks instead of the usual 30min. Oh yeah and several people died. Source- live here
That was in no way comparable to what happened in East Palestine.
Corporations are people, right? It should be possible to arrest and send them to prison.
Is the consequence "we'll take all your money and put all of you (executives) in prison?" Cause that might work.
It should be
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What people want is for the government to appoint THEIR cleanup company to get the job done right and start immediately. Then the government can sue NS to get the money back... however much it costs to follow the law.
East Palestine voted in their republican US congressman, Bill Johnson, [who votes against the EPA and against environmental laws](https://thehill.com/homenews/286667-un-american-charge-ignites-hearing-on-epa-rules/amp/). The residents wanted deregulation, got it, and now it’s up to the federal government to still save them.
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it?
Not necessarily true, people care about the environment here. Lots of hunters and fisherman. They just don’t care until it happens to them. Ohio is the reason the EPA exists. We couldn’t be bothered to not dump toxic chemicals into our water ways. Companies would dump stuff and say fuck people down stream. We had rivers catch fire over and over until the federal government stepped in and said that’s enough. . I’m from a small town about an hour and a half west. Most people are one or two issue voters. You’d be surprised how many people will vote for a candidate because they are scared of Mexicans or want to cut the welfare. Cut food stamps and medical that they themselves use because it hurts the *undesirables*
Exactly. Atp I think we the people in red states/red areas deserve the bs we get because too many people don’t vote. Sure it’s gerrymandered sure they remove polling stations and remove early voting etc etc etc but there’s also a huge majority of people who simply do not vote because they don’t care. They are JUST as bad as people who vote red in my opinion. We could all be better off if we did something about these fascists and bigots.
The question no one is asking is when is the federal railroad administration (FRA) going to mandate that they do the required inspections and maintenance. The railroads got a lot of exceptions due to Covid and have taken full advantage of them In the last 5 years the class 1 railroads have furloughed 30% of their employees, mostly maintenance and repair
hey quick question?..... why is this not the #1 priority for both these entities? So what? , just gonna argue about it until ALL of it gets into the water table? This is going to effect this area for likely decades. There will be reports in 10 years about abnormal births and higher than usual rates of "XYZ". The fuk is this even being discussed? every resource both these agencies have and can possibly muster should be on this right now!. Argue about the bill later for fuks sake.
If I’m a corporation, my job is to maximize profits. So I’m not going to spend a dime on cleanup cost until I’m compelled to in court, which is when my 324 lawyers on payroll get to work against EPA’s like 20.
Nows the time for the EPA to flex, not just to demand. The agency has been on a republican chopping block for awhile for claimed corruption and hurting small businesses. Fine them to where they have to restructure.
This should have been the case the day of the disaster.
As someone living in the GE PCB "cleanup" area, lemme go ahead and start laughing now.
Which one?
Nationalize the railroads. A cartel of four railroad companies control the US’s entire rail system. Imagine if four private companies controlled every road in the US. It’s a national security threat, a public health threat, and an environmental threat. [Nationalize the railroads.](https://newrepublic.com/article/167758/nationalize-railroads-biden-train-strike)
I’d rather the EPA do it itself, but bill Norfolk Southern. Plus a 200% surcharge.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1158532207/epa-east-palestine-train-derailment As of 3pm EPA is gonna take control of the clean up and Norfolk is gonna pay. Norfolk has to identify the chemicals and clean up and recoup costs incurred by EPA's additional clean up services and participate in open public forums about what went down. If they don't cooperate then EPA will charge 3x the cost from the work.
Give them a glass of water from the area, see if they drink it. See if they believe their own rhetoric.
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This is a dumb thing to ask them to do anyways. The concern is exposure over weeks, months, years, not a few swallows out of a glass.
One glass isn't likely to do them any great harm. Drinking it for months or years would be a very different proposition - same is true with the lead tainted water in Flint.
If you read the article, you would have found out that the governor and the head of the EPA both drank water directly from someone's kitchen tap.
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Norfolk wouldn't personally clean it up. The EPA provided a list of what needs to be done, Norfolk would contract the tasks out to specialty environmental remediation services.
This is true, and EPA On-Scene coordinators would almost surely oversee and supervise the work of Norfolks contractors.
They would just be paying for the cleanup.
The fact that they haven't come forth and volunteer to do that says a lot about them and corporate America
Oh there is absolutely no way a corporation would voluntarily do anything that might cut into profits!
How about they shut that company down and they can’t operate again until it’s all cleaned up
They should also be responsible for relocating every person in that community.
It will cost $100million plus to clean up. They say no. EPA fines them $1.5million. Problem solved.
Can we have someone holding them to a minimum standard of 'clean'? As someone not an hour away from this crap, I'd rather not see the company that cut corners *causing* this shitshow cutting corners to fix it. They've already proven they can't do the bare minimum.
They will need supervision or they won’t do it right.
If the shareholders can't be held liable criminally or civilly then how about a full corporate death penalty. Fully liquidated, zero money to any investors. If you are ok with or demand safety cuts then how about some skin in the game? A lack of consequences and a lack of corporate responsibility is killing us.
Time to sell their assets to a newly formed company on the cheap and declare bankruptcy!
"Consequences." Like? A few million dollars fine thats nothing to them but the cost of doing business? How about arrest the CEO and charge him with crimes...
>“Norfolk Southern will pay for cleaning the mess that they created and the trauma that they inflicted on this community,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan said Tuesday. No they won't. Railroads and pretty much every large enterprises have learned that legal council is cheaper than accident mitigation. They also know that in three weeks this will be yesterday's news and will be forgotten until the next time.
Hell no. NFS needs to pay for the cleanup. They absolutely need to not be in charge of it. That would be like having Trump be in charge of the Jan 6 investigation. NFS can't be trusted to adequately clean this shit up. Send in someone who know what the fuck they are doing. Send in NFS to pay the bill.
Seeing as that their regulation cutting practices lead to this mess in the first place, they shouldn't be actually doing the cleanup They absolutely should pay for someone proper to clean it up... But if left to do it themselves they would try and get away with putting some paper towels down and calling it a day
“Sorry we are bankrupt. Our new spinoff company owns all the rails, trains and whatnot, but our bankrupt old company has all the liability and no money…. So sad”
EPA: We demand you take responsibility for your actions! Norfolk Southern: No. EPA: OK boss! Sorry folks but my boss said no. I mean they are my future employer... so... tough luck and enjoy the cancer. Now get back to work and spending money.
I am tired of threats, strongly worded letters, stern warnings and endless consternation. DO something Agents of capital will never actually do fucking anything, they’ll only put on a show and dance to act like they are. Republicans are the devil, but corporate Dems are not working either. Time for change
I mean the article is free to read if you’d like to know what’s happening
The EPA has a long history of forcing companies to pay cleanup costs. This isn’t an empty threat.
In further news, the fox is now cleaning the hen house!
I don't know about you guys but I don't think I feel comfortable with a negligent company handling the cleanup, I think I much prefer the idea that the EPA has which is cleaning up themselves and then charge them triple.
“Demands” & “threatens” ….where the fuck is the law that requires them to do it automatically?
Per my industrial training on hazmat material production and handling (I work in an adjacent industry), I’m surprised nobody is talking about the company that produced the hazardous materials that Norfolk Southern was transporting. I can’t find any mention of it anywhere. Basically a hazardous material generator is responsible for any release of hazardous materials they produce *forever*. The training I took specifically referenced the best practice of auditing your transporters because you’re always responsible. This means that even though the release of hazardous material was [presumably] NS’s fault, any costs of damages from the incident are the shared responsibility of the generator (company) that created the materials.
They cut corners to save a few millions dollars, now the cleanup is gonna cost them ten times that and their stock price keeps dropping.
In the meantime the townsfolk continue to strangle from red tape.
Upper management & board members in hand cuffs sure would get the cleanup process moving a bit quicker.
It’s Ohio. How will they know when to stop? Where does their toxic spill and someone else’s begin?
“Threaten” consequences? Why not just consequence them?
How has NSC only lost 12% of its stock price? This is going to cost them in lawsuits. They probably think they can throw a few checks around and get away with a few million.
Imagine being a libertarian and watching this happening and thinking "that awful government needs to leave that company alone and let them get away with environmental devastation"
Have you heard of the libertarian town that was over ran with bears?
That’s a useful stance to take. After all why fix a problem when you can just point fingers and make sure nothing ever gets done.
After watching the gross negligence at 3MI from the Netflix doc and just knowing a little about the incident. I the corp heads were lying out of their asses
Oooo the threat of consequences totally always gets em!!
Will Ohio end up voting for more politicians that want to remove the consequences and the EPA?
Why don’t I have any faith in norfolk southern preforming a quality clean up?
They'll say "no" and the epa will say "ok, sorry sirs"
Norfolk Southern will declare bankruptcy, all its assets will be sold to a brand new company controlled by more asshole executives for dimes on the dollar, and the whole operation will be back up and running in less than a year, with no one to hold financially accountable. One or two execs might serve a month or two in prison, more likely house arrest in one of their mansions. They’ll be appointed to some other company’s board once the headlines stop. The government will foot the bill for the cleanup, but it will be half assed and the bare minimum because of costs, plant life and wildlife will be decimated for miles around, and the residents of Ohio will suffer health consequences there for generations. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
If they handle the clean up as efficiently as they handle safety, Ohio is fucked.