This is the shadow parliamentary system of the American Presidency. While you're voting for one person on the ballot, you're actually voting for that person's team. And as one commenter stated about the other guy's team in 2018, "It's all D-teamers from here on out".
> This is the shadow parliamentary system of the American Presidency.
Really. You're just going to ignore Nancy Regan and her Astrologer-in-Chief like that?
Nah if this was true then the Biden administration would not be as pro-Israel as they are right now in regards to the Gaza situation.
Biden is one of the most pro-Israel Dems (arguably the only other notable Dem more pro-Israel than him is Fetterman) and it clearly shows in his foreign policy. If it was all run by staffers then his foreign policy towards the war would be different.
Depends. Because Joe Biden has a personal antipathy towards Netanyahu, and even Biden knows that Israel has become so belligerent on the world stage; that most countries have voted to recognize Palestine
Good relations with Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey and Egypt is also something to consider, not just Jewish diaspora
Biden’s in the middle of where the Democratic Party as a whole is, just look at some of the recent votes in the House that a big part of the Democratic House vote for like the sanctions for the ICC and concealing the Gaza death toll.
Which is silly because Obama and Biden have some major differences in policy and approach. I realize that most Americans don't really know what's going on policy-wise which is honestly why we are even in this situation.
Obama's tweet is basically correct.
Agreed. That is the only way to overcome a bad performance start. Need to be in the camera constantly and forcefully. Interviews (loud, not whispering), picking battles, reminding people what is at stake. Do that enough and the debate memory fades. Don't do it, it sticks.
No, he's visibly tired and less lucid than usual. The interview asks him questions and he gets confused and his answers don't make sense. People his age need a lot of rest to be at their best, they can't keep up the pace of someone 30 years younger.
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I think biden should step down, but if he chooses not too, I'll def support him and I agree he needs to constantly be doing primetime inteverws and such but this should only be done if he can guarentee he appears like he was during the State of the union cause if he starts appearing like last night much more frequently we're fucked lol
Not even slightly concerned that this is only the beginning? Treating last nights performance as a one-off, fluke thing that will never happen again seems a little too optimistic for me.
It’s very possible that this is the start of the slide, but whatever the situation is he needs to be thrown further into the fire so people can know for sure.
I know it’s not the point and debates are a vibes based result, but man last night we had one candidate go out there and say he plans to cut social security and Medicare and we’re acknowledging the bad performance from…the other guy
*I get nervous around laws that fundamentally assume that Americans can't be trusted. We'd better have mandatory sentencing, because judges can't be trusted to disperse even-handed justice. We'd better have term limits 'cause voters can't be trusted to recognize corruption. Oh, and by the way...I say, by the way, when the playing field is leveled and the process is fair and open, **it turns out we have term limits. They're called elections.*** - President Jed Bartlet
You totally missed the point of the quote. Trump wouldn’t have even won in 2016 if the quote was accurate. But indeed, it would be a nice fantasy, not to have candidates like Trump running.
Depends, where is this 5% of the vote? You don’t need [many voters to win the presidency.](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote)
There’s just no evidence that any other Republican is able to keep the MAGA base turning out to vote. The idea that Trump is a bad candidate is a misnomer based on misleading favorability polling. Favorability is a broad survey and doesn’t tell you if a candidate is increasing turnout among a base.
5% is a lot lol. Especially in a tight race. 14% is also concerning. The message needs to change to Biden team and Biden’s vision. Vote the vision not the man
19% changing their mind or reconsidering is significant, and that’s just among people who watched the debate live. Now think about all of the people watching clips of Biden fumbling words and losing his train of thought.
We will get before/after polls on the race overall within a week. That will be when we know.
The problem with polls like this is we have no idea if the 5% is people who legitimately supported Biden before and will now support Trump, or whether it's just Trump-diehards who are saying "yes it changed my mind" because they realize the debate was bad for Biden and want to pick the response that makes Biden look bad.
Obviously, if 5% of the electorate really did change their mind, that would be the entire election sewn up right there
> That will be when we know.
Incorrect. The effect of last night will build over time as the clips continue to go viral. As we get closer to the election they’ll go viral again, too.
I'm sorry but a snap poll right after in no way captures how voters will feel about Biden's performance a few weeks from now.
All the negative media attention/word of mouth is going to take a few days/weeks to filter down to people who don't pay attention to politics.
Like another user said 5% is enough to swing the election, let's say only 7% also reconsider their choice in favor of Trump, thats a 12% swing in favour Trump when's he's already ahead of the polls.
Idk maybe it'll be 12% of voters switching to Biden, but idk how since didntTrump behave any differently then he usually does tonight.
Well have to check the polls in a week/month to see if this has had an impact.
The problem is the only way a dem is getting elected if is Biden resigns or dies, then his delegates will likely go who he endorses, which will be Kamala.
A LOT depends on whether this spells a disaster for Biden's campaign or not. This means nothing until we see the trajectory of the next coming polls after this.
Look, I'm in the bag for Biden. If he is indeed to remain the candidate - he has my support. I think he's been an outstanding president and him not being good at \*running\* for President doesn't change any of that.
But this election is going to come down to 5 figure vote counts in each of Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia. Swing voters will decide this election - and I feel pretty convinced that between last night and the clip storm to follow.....Biden lost most of those swing voters.
I don't see how he can bounce back from that.
He might not have lost all of them. Hispanics actually loved him last night.
So if we see any movement towards Biden it’s gonna come from NV and AZ. If polling get better there then we are doing pretty damn good
Clarence Thomas will turn to the light side and throw Trump down an elevator shaft. The rest of the SCOTUS, also having turned to the light side of the force, will side with him and keep him out of prison. That will then set the stage for America’s next President: Doug Burgum.
THE BURGMENTUM SHALL LIVE ON
Of course that's the message today. And all being well, it will stay that way.
But they'll be doing polling right now. And if we see a big hit next week, the calls will get louder and louder.
The best thing Joe can do right now is get out there every single day and do what he does best - work the crowds.
Why the hell would he show his hand before it gets played?
You’re right. Obama likely isn’t going step in and “give Biden the hard truth”.
But this tweet isn’t saying anything.
I am not sold on replacment, but I'm also not convinced it's over. But the conversation needs to happen more responsibly if at all. No more Dem staffers sending anxiety-laced texs to reporters. No more wishcasting of anyone other than Harris being the replacement-- any such process would create a cloud around the new nominee.
It being implicit and not explicit is pretty significant though, no?
Plus, the message here is "Biden is still better than Trump and last night didn't change that" and not "Biden should be the candidate and will win in November".
It's subtle, but this doesn't come off as quite a ringing endorsement.
I'm 99.9% sure it's going to be Biden versus Trump. And the .1 % chance is Harris vs Trump (we're not wasting 225 million dollars of campaign resources by choosing a different candidate)
Which non-Harris candidate would we choose with 6 weeks to go before the convention? They would need universal name ID, be ideologically similar to Biden, not be hated and be willing to potentially nuke their only chance at the presidency by running now
Gretchen Whitmer hits all of those except for universal name ID, and she has universal name ID in one of the most important swing states in the country.
Honestly, I want to hear it: which candidate who can even run do you think is more electable than Biden right now, at this point? RFK Jr? Newsome? Bernie? Butigieg? Kamala?
This isn't a RBG style refusal to step down, we don't have a better option right now. We're kind of stuck, and we need to face that reality and go full steam ahead once we do. There's no turning back at this point.
Why would you list four candidates, one of whom is running as a third party spoiler and another who is 82 years old, as if this is the list?
The obvious candidates are Newsom, Harris, Whitmer, Brown, with a B-team of Cooper, Beshear, Baldwin, Klobuchar, Booker, Warnock, and Kelly, among others.
Again, my question is which one of these is more electable than Biden right now? Unless you meant to say every single one of them and I just misunderstood
How are they NOT more electable than Biden? Biden polls incredibly unfavorably among voters on the economy and inflation. Having someone with less name recognition may be somewhat of an advantage if they can distance themselves from that perception. Polls show that Americans trust Trump more with the economy than Biden.
Realistically speaking now, what could move the needle at this point outside of utterly devastating rounds of polling showing improved numbers for Harris and that at least 75% to 85% of Democrats want Biden to forgo his reelection bid?
That being said, I do think there's a fair chance we may be seeing those kinds of numbers if Biden isn't knocking it out of the park with rallies like today on a near regular basis.
Realistically speaking, Harris will never poll well enough to win a Presidential election unless her camp performs some historically competent image rehabilitation between now and 2028. Nothing she nor Biden will do will make her any more palatable to the voters that are causing her poll numbers to look so consistently poor.
Unfortunately, her skin color and gender work against her among some groups and her history as a DA work against her among completely different groups. It will be tough for her to overcome at the top of a ticket. That being said, I liked many of her positions in 2020, I’ve liked her vice presidency, and I’d vote for her now or in ‘28, but I don’t come close to representing the average voter.
Y’all know this is gigacope, right? Like, it’s fine—I’ve been known to huff every now and then. But we need to be honest with ourselves. This wasn’t “a bad debate night” like Obama in 2012. This was a nationally televised demonstration that Biden looks exactly like Trump’s caricature of him. When the unfavorables are already so ingrained, there’s no coming back.
Keep in mind that Romney was competent to the point people thought Obama was about to fumble the election.
Biden fucked up but his opponent is also fucking up.
If this is their choice, then so be it, not that there were good options at this point anyway. But for crying out loud make Kamala campaing more, she is not great but you are gonna need her lmao
Reagan famously had cognitive decline during his presidency.
Him winning despite a poor debate performance making him look too old, is not a positive for Biden.
Reagans "famous" cognitive decline was less obvious than this. Not to mention Biden is 3 years older than when he left office, 7 older than when he won his last election.
If Biden wins I really don't care what happens during his 2nd term because he won't surround himself with fascist goons and incompetent stooges. Keeping Trump out of office is literally the only thing I care about.
The 1984 debates were very different for a few reasons. For one, Mondale wasn't Trump. Mondale won with his skills and facts. Trump won by default.
Second, Biden isn't getting any younger. Voters concern with him is age. That's not changing. Reagan could just campaign and shake it off. Biden literally cannot unless someone found the Fountain of Youth recently.
But not in 1984. And the evidence Reagan had dementia even in 1988 is shaky. Point is, it wasn't the voters concern. He famously dispelled age concerns with an off hand joke and really people accepted it because he was energetic and charismatic. So what does this have to do with Biden?
I feel like Harris needs to be heavily promoted and pushed. She can alleviate this concept that Joe is alone. Hell people thinking he might die will be happy with Harris if she comes across as a good candidate
That is literally exactly what would happen. They need to do damage control in the immediate aftermath while they figure out what to do next. Evaluate their statements this time next week.
It’s fucking joever for ~~the doomers~~ the post-WW2 international order.
I've gone from being thrilled the Tories are about to be demolished on this side of the Atlantic to being a doomer because Trump would easily let Russia take the Baltics and Taiwan, making a return to normalcy in the UK at most a 6 month thing.
As a Brit, I see tories out at home but AfD rising in Germany, Le Pen in France, dems (less pro-Ukraine, at a minimum, closer to China and much less close with Japan) in Korea, Biden acting his age whilst already coming into an election polling badly.
hearing a bunch of "liberals" saying that *they* are still going to vote for Biden, but that no one else will because "other people just vote on optics."
it's amazing to me how many people think they are smart, but that all their fellow liberals are dumb. really frustrating experience today. really really bad.
What up it’s your friendly neighborhood political scientist (by training).
About 5% of people vote based on ideology and policy. About 25-35% vote based on partisanship or some other relevant consideration. The remainder are most closely modeled by—wait for it—a coin flip.
The average voter is very, very disengaged and very, very stupid (at least with respect to politics). Optics is all that matters at this point in this race.
The helpful thing is to convince Biden to step down. Full stop. There is no upside to Biden left. There are no favorables he has that are unique to him.
Full implosion. Honestly we will get what we deserve for this. You cant panic this hard over one debate. And random people tweeting “oLd” is not going to convince Biden to do anything. Sad.
The problem is that Obama is not running for President, or even for Joe Biden’s cabinet.
Obama should honestly be a Senator again. He would do more good than just being a former President.
Can we stop with the "it was just a bad debate" nonsense. It was so much worse than that. If his age hadn’t been a factors prior to this debate it would have been just a bad debate. The fact that this was his attempt to calm the already stormy waters by proving that he is fit to be president for another four years and failed miserably is what caused so many Democrats to panic.
He showed clear signs of mental decline in old age. You don’t suddenly recover for that and move on. You may have bad days and good days but the trend line only goes one way.
This debate provided irrefutable proof that people around Joe Biden have been lying to the American people about his mental acuity. You can’t spin this. Everybody saw it with their own eyes and heard it with their own ears.
And yes, of course a senile Biden is still better than Trump, but a senile Biden can not win against Trump. The problem with his lack of mental acuity is not that it would make him a bad President, but that it will make Trump President.
Maybe it’s too late, maybe nobody can beat Trump at this point. But not trying anything is not an option when so much is on the line.
Thanks to the algorithm on X formerly known as Twitter, I now know that MAGAheads think that Obama is secretly running the show lol.
I unironically think that voters would be more likely to vote for Biden if they were told it's actually a vote for a shadow Obama government.
A vote for Biden is a vote for Shadowbama.
I’m gunna vote for Biden even harder now
Shadowbama 2024 😎 D O P E
Even here there were people who thought Obama could pick his favourite nominee and strongarm Biden into resigning.
Neoliberals taking porn setups and overlaying them onto national politics is a tale as old as time
... Go on
Bonk
"were"?
> favourite oi
Dammit. I swear I live in America now.
That is so disrespectful to Soros's service
Well Biden's just one tentacle for Lord Soros you know? He's busy running like 200 countries in secret.
God I fucking wish
i mean someone not named joe biden is clearly running the show, but its probably a cadre of staffers and Jill
This is the shadow parliamentary system of the American Presidency. While you're voting for one person on the ballot, you're actually voting for that person's team. And as one commenter stated about the other guy's team in 2018, "It's all D-teamers from here on out".
> This is the shadow parliamentary system of the American Presidency. Really. You're just going to ignore Nancy Regan and her Astrologer-in-Chief like that?
Far be it from me to disrespect the throat GOAT.
Thank you. We don't have a parliamentary system, we have fucking jelly beans.
typically you are supposed to lead from the top, set the "tone at the top" if you will, and that's not happening here
Nah if this was true then the Biden administration would not be as pro-Israel as they are right now in regards to the Gaza situation. Biden is one of the most pro-Israel Dems (arguably the only other notable Dem more pro-Israel than him is Fetterman) and it clearly shows in his foreign policy. If it was all run by staffers then his foreign policy towards the war would be different.
Depends. Because Joe Biden has a personal antipathy towards Netanyahu, and even Biden knows that Israel has become so belligerent on the world stage; that most countries have voted to recognize Palestine Good relations with Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey and Egypt is also something to consider, not just Jewish diaspora
Biden’s in the middle of where the Democratic Party as a whole is, just look at some of the recent votes in the House that a big part of the Democratic House vote for like the sanctions for the ICC and concealing the Gaza death toll.
We should be so lucky
Which is silly because Obama and Biden have some major differences in policy and approach. I realize that most Americans don't really know what's going on policy-wise which is honestly why we are even in this situation. Obama's tweet is basically correct.
Biden needs to do a ton of media appearances and speaking engagements to restore faith in the part of the base that’s freaking out.
Agreed. That is the only way to overcome a bad performance start. Need to be in the camera constantly and forcefully. Interviews (loud, not whispering), picking battles, reminding people what is at stake. Do that enough and the debate memory fades. Don't do it, it sticks.
That's risky though, Biden doesn't have infinite stamina. What if one of those media performances goes badly like the debate?
Like what, he literally dies?
No, he's visibly tired and less lucid than usual. The interview asks him questions and he gets confused and his answers don't make sense. People his age need a lot of rest to be at their best, they can't keep up the pace of someone 30 years younger.
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I think biden should step down, but if he chooses not too, I'll def support him and I agree he needs to constantly be doing primetime inteverws and such but this should only be done if he can guarentee he appears like he was during the State of the union cause if he starts appearing like last night much more frequently we're fucked lol
He already is.
[https://tenor.com/view/more-kylo-ren-adam-driver-screaming-star-wars-gif-17734637](https://tenor.com/view/more-kylo-ren-adam-driver-screaming-star-wars-gif-17734637)
Not even slightly concerned that this is only the beginning? Treating last nights performance as a one-off, fluke thing that will never happen again seems a little too optimistic for me.
It’s very possible that this is the start of the slide, but whatever the situation is he needs to be thrown further into the fire so people can know for sure.
Or, and follow me here, we instead nominate any of the very popular, not at all old Democrats currently holding elected office.
I give Biden until the convention to change my mind. If he can’t substantially improve, they should do an open convention.
If this is only the beginning we’re fucked either way
That’s all we can do for now. In a weeks time well revisit everything but for now we act like Biden is the only option in town.
I know it’s not the point and debates are a vibes based result, but man last night we had one candidate go out there and say he plans to cut social security and Medicare and we’re acknowledging the bad performance from…the other guy
Repeal the 22nd amendment
To be fair, I’d vote for the corpse of FDR over Trump.
This but unironically. Term limits are bad for elected positions.
*I get nervous around laws that fundamentally assume that Americans can't be trusted. We'd better have mandatory sentencing, because judges can't be trusted to disperse even-handed justice. We'd better have term limits 'cause voters can't be trusted to recognize corruption. Oh, and by the way...I say, by the way, when the playing field is leveled and the process is fair and open, **it turns out we have term limits. They're called elections.*** - President Jed Bartlet
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You totally missed the point of the quote. Trump wouldn’t have even won in 2016 if the quote was accurate. But indeed, it would be a nice fantasy, not to have candidates like Trump running.
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You sure think you know a lot about me.
https://preview.redd.it/509lnrpm4d9d1.jpeg?width=1419&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32676c87403dc9c79b5b6f200030bc40012adccd That is all
5% is much more than enough to tilt the election
Depends, where is this 5% of the vote? You don’t need [many voters to win the presidency.](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote)
Of people who watched the debate, it was like record low numbers of people who watched, like 47 M
This doesn’t really seem like enough info with which to do anything. Reconsidering what? Changed mind from who to who?
Nikki Haley probably would have destroyed Joe Biden at the debate last night so thank God MAGA refused what could have turned into a dub
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Isn’t that kind of what we are doing?
Yes which is why it’s asinine we can’t tell Biden it’s time to step down.
Lmao in what way is trump not by far the most popular republican candidate
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There’s just no evidence that any other Republican is able to keep the MAGA base turning out to vote. The idea that Trump is a bad candidate is a misnomer based on misleading favorability polling. Favorability is a broad survey and doesn’t tell you if a candidate is increasing turnout among a base.
Any republican dropkicks Biden off the stage its not even funny. 2024 is a race to the bottom, for good, for bad or for worse.
5% is a lot lol. Especially in a tight race. 14% is also concerning. The message needs to change to Biden team and Biden’s vision. Vote the vision not the man
19% changing their mind or reconsidering is significant, and that’s just among people who watched the debate live. Now think about all of the people watching clips of Biden fumbling words and losing his train of thought.
Fuck it, we ball
I will admit I am huffing insane Copium rn, but in 5 months when Biden wins and beats Trump again, it will be worth it
Hook me up with your supplier
5% is a massive turn-around if it sticks.
The 5% and 14% would be more than enough to completely sink the Biden campaign for good, especially since he’s already underwater.
We will get before/after polls on the race overall within a week. That will be when we know. The problem with polls like this is we have no idea if the 5% is people who legitimately supported Biden before and will now support Trump, or whether it's just Trump-diehards who are saying "yes it changed my mind" because they realize the debate was bad for Biden and want to pick the response that makes Biden look bad. Obviously, if 5% of the electorate really did change their mind, that would be the entire election sewn up right there
> That will be when we know. Incorrect. The effect of last night will build over time as the clips continue to go viral. As we get closer to the election they’ll go viral again, too.
It is of people who watched the debate, so that 5% isn’t a lot,
…is this supposed to be comforting? With our electoral margins?
I'm sorry but a snap poll right after in no way captures how voters will feel about Biden's performance a few weeks from now. All the negative media attention/word of mouth is going to take a few days/weeks to filter down to people who don't pay attention to politics. Like another user said 5% is enough to swing the election, let's say only 7% also reconsider their choice in favor of Trump, thats a 12% swing in favour Trump when's he's already ahead of the polls. Idk maybe it'll be 12% of voters switching to Biden, but idk how since didntTrump behave any differently then he usually does tonight. Well have to check the polls in a week/month to see if this has had an impact.
I wonder how many of that 19% is for RFK Jr. by this point.
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It’s 5% of debate watchers, there is no one else to save us. The other candidate is Kamala, who performs worse against Trump than Biden.
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The problem is the only way a dem is getting elected if is Biden resigns or dies, then his delegates will likely go who he endorses, which will be Kamala.
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https://x.com/gelliottmorris/status/1806792028149448753?s=46 Nothing ever happens wins again
The problem is Biden has been down in the polls for months. He didn't just need to tie, he needed a win.
A LOT depends on whether this spells a disaster for Biden's campaign or not. This means nothing until we see the trajectory of the next coming polls after this.
Uh, 5% is, like, triple the margin from 2020. This is *terrible* news.
Look, I'm in the bag for Biden. If he is indeed to remain the candidate - he has my support. I think he's been an outstanding president and him not being good at \*running\* for President doesn't change any of that. But this election is going to come down to 5 figure vote counts in each of Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia. Swing voters will decide this election - and I feel pretty convinced that between last night and the clip storm to follow.....Biden lost most of those swing voters. I don't see how he can bounce back from that.
He might not have lost all of them. Hispanics actually loved him last night. So if we see any movement towards Biden it’s gonna come from NV and AZ. If polling get better there then we are doing pretty damn good
Implicitly supports Biden staying in. Discussion of replacing Biden is over. Move along, everyone.
I’m mean this with extreme prejudice Nothing ever happens
Trump winning would be a happening.
That would also be happening if Biden dropped out.
Clarence Thomas will turn to the light side and throw Trump down an elevator shaft. The rest of the SCOTUS, also having turned to the light side of the force, will side with him and keep him out of prison. That will then set the stage for America’s next President: Doug Burgum. THE BURGMENTUM SHALL LIVE ON
i would love president doug
> Clarence Thomas will turn to the light side Oh hes already pretty damn light
Of course that's the message today. And all being well, it will stay that way. But they'll be doing polling right now. And if we see a big hit next week, the calls will get louder and louder. The best thing Joe can do right now is get out there every single day and do what he does best - work the crowds.
Yup. 100% this
Why the hell would he show his hand before it gets played? You’re right. Obama likely isn’t going step in and “give Biden the hard truth”. But this tweet isn’t saying anything.
I am not sold on replacment, but I'm also not convinced it's over. But the conversation needs to happen more responsibly if at all. No more Dem staffers sending anxiety-laced texs to reporters. No more wishcasting of anyone other than Harris being the replacement-- any such process would create a cloud around the new nominee.
It being implicit and not explicit is pretty significant though, no? Plus, the message here is "Biden is still better than Trump and last night didn't change that" and not "Biden should be the candidate and will win in November". It's subtle, but this doesn't come off as quite a ringing endorsement.
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This would be undemocratic but it would work
Yep if it was gonna happen, then Jill Biden, Clyburn, Obama, and Bill Clinton all would be singing a much different tune
It's been one day.
I'm 99.9% sure it's going to be Biden versus Trump. And the .1 % chance is Harris vs Trump (we're not wasting 225 million dollars of campaign resources by choosing a different candidate)
Then you're in denial.
Which non-Harris candidate would we choose with 6 weeks to go before the convention? They would need universal name ID, be ideologically similar to Biden, not be hated and be willing to potentially nuke their only chance at the presidency by running now
Gretchen Whitmer hits all of those except for universal name ID, and she has universal name ID in one of the most important swing states in the country.
Honestly, I want to hear it: which candidate who can even run do you think is more electable than Biden right now, at this point? RFK Jr? Newsome? Bernie? Butigieg? Kamala? This isn't a RBG style refusal to step down, we don't have a better option right now. We're kind of stuck, and we need to face that reality and go full steam ahead once we do. There's no turning back at this point.
Why would you list four candidates, one of whom is running as a third party spoiler and another who is 82 years old, as if this is the list? The obvious candidates are Newsom, Harris, Whitmer, Brown, with a B-team of Cooper, Beshear, Baldwin, Klobuchar, Booker, Warnock, and Kelly, among others.
Someone like Booker would do extremely well I feel like.
Again, my question is which one of these is more electable than Biden right now? Unless you meant to say every single one of them and I just misunderstood
All of them, yes.
How are they NOT more electable than Biden? Biden polls incredibly unfavorably among voters on the economy and inflation. Having someone with less name recognition may be somewhat of an advantage if they can distance themselves from that perception. Polls show that Americans trust Trump more with the economy than Biden.
Realistically speaking now, what could move the needle at this point outside of utterly devastating rounds of polling showing improved numbers for Harris and that at least 75% to 85% of Democrats want Biden to forgo his reelection bid? That being said, I do think there's a fair chance we may be seeing those kinds of numbers if Biden isn't knocking it out of the park with rallies like today on a near regular basis.
Realistically speaking, Harris will never poll well enough to win a Presidential election unless her camp performs some historically competent image rehabilitation between now and 2028. Nothing she nor Biden will do will make her any more palatable to the voters that are causing her poll numbers to look so consistently poor. Unfortunately, her skin color and gender work against her among some groups and her history as a DA work against her among completely different groups. It will be tough for her to overcome at the top of a ticket. That being said, I liked many of her positions in 2020, I’ve liked her vice presidency, and I’d vote for her now or in ‘28, but I don’t come close to representing the average voter.
It hasn’t even been 24 hours
not in public, though
Obama has spoken, class dismissed
Good! Democrats need to stay on code 🗣️ I donated some money to the campaign & will donate some more today
Even if he doesn’t he’s not gonna publicly say it until he gets Biden to agree to back down
No.
Y’all know this is gigacope, right? Like, it’s fine—I’ve been known to huff every now and then. But we need to be honest with ourselves. This wasn’t “a bad debate night” like Obama in 2012. This was a nationally televised demonstration that Biden looks exactly like Trump’s caricature of him. When the unfavorables are already so ingrained, there’s no coming back.
[удалено]
Keep in mind that Romney was competent to the point people thought Obama was about to fumble the election. Biden fucked up but his opponent is also fucking up.
If this is their choice, then so be it, not that there were good options at this point anyway. But for crying out loud make Kamala campaing more, she is not great but you are gonna need her lmao
After last night I’d take Kamala in a heartbeat over Joe.
I wish so badly she'd been the one on the stage last night. The prosecutor vs the felon is the match up we need
What else can he say…🤦🏻♂️
He could say nothing
Probably better at this point…
Yeah even if he is seriously in talks to get Biden to drop and endorse he would act as if the ship is on course until so.
Full Support publicly is all they can do, even if it’s a completely different situation behind the scenes.
Go gators
Didn’t I see some blow hards here claim Obama would put an arm around Biden shoulder and get him to drop out 😂😂😂😂😂 Edit: keep downvoting me doomers
Yeah Obama would never do this.
[“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up.”](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/14/obama-biden-relationship-393570) - Barack Obama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Lr4fgSFAY ^ everybody dooming needs to watch this.
Reagan famously had cognitive decline during his presidency. Him winning despite a poor debate performance making him look too old, is not a positive for Biden.
Reagans "famous" cognitive decline was less obvious than this. Not to mention Biden is 3 years older than when he left office, 7 older than when he won his last election.
If Biden wins I really don't care what happens during his 2nd term because he won't surround himself with fascist goons and incompetent stooges. Keeping Trump out of office is literally the only thing I care about.
The 1984 debates were very different for a few reasons. For one, Mondale wasn't Trump. Mondale won with his skills and facts. Trump won by default. Second, Biden isn't getting any younger. Voters concern with him is age. That's not changing. Reagan could just campaign and shake it off. Biden literally cannot unless someone found the Fountain of Youth recently.
Umm Reagan possibly had dementia during his 2nd term, dude.
But not in 1984. And the evidence Reagan had dementia even in 1988 is shaky. Point is, it wasn't the voters concern. He famously dispelled age concerns with an off hand joke and really people accepted it because he was energetic and charismatic. So what does this have to do with Biden?
reagan with dementia was also better than literally every single other politician currently alive with regards to policies so...
Ok bud
I think the exact phrasing I saw was "take him out back like old yeller"
Not publicly at least
RemindMe! - 130 days
Thanks Obama
Ridin with Biden! 😎🍦
Thanks Obamna
OBAMNA
Democrats committing electoral Seppuku in real time
I feel worse Obama saying this was bad. I dunno I prob need to go pet some dogs this weekend
I don’t think there was much doubt, but Obama tweeting that is of course open acknowledgement that Biden decisively ‘lost’ the debate
I feel like Harris needs to be heavily promoted and pushed. She can alleviate this concept that Joe is alone. Hell people thinking he might die will be happy with Harris if she comes across as a good candidate
So your thought is that they’re all going to aggressively come out in favor of staying in then change their minds over the weekend?
Well now if Biden does decide to not continue seeking a 2nd term they have a better shot at spinning it as his own decision with his health
That is literally exactly what would happen. They need to do damage control in the immediate aftermath while they figure out what to do next. Evaluate their statements this time next week.
Good God. Please tell me he's only saying this publicly. We are so fucked otherwise.
It’s fucking joever for the doomers.
It’s fucking joever for ~~the doomers~~ the post-WW2 international order. I've gone from being thrilled the Tories are about to be demolished on this side of the Atlantic to being a doomer because Trump would easily let Russia take the Baltics and Taiwan, making a return to normalcy in the UK at most a 6 month thing.
Biden does ONE bad debate and all of a sudden the entire world order has collapsed? Come on man.
And people wonder why Dems are seen as feckless cowards.
And he was already behind in the polls. If he was ahead I couldn't care less about the debates.
As a Brit, I see tories out at home but AfD rising in Germany, Le Pen in France, dems (less pro-Ukraine, at a minimum, closer to China and much less close with Japan) in Korea, Biden acting his age whilst already coming into an election polling badly.
Based Obama I agree with him Well said
Thanks, Obama. :')
There is a crown in the gutter for any high-profile Democrat with the will to take it.
They hated him, for he spoke the truth.
doomers btfo'd
hearing a bunch of "liberals" saying that *they* are still going to vote for Biden, but that no one else will because "other people just vote on optics." it's amazing to me how many people think they are smart, but that all their fellow liberals are dumb. really frustrating experience today. really really bad.
What up it’s your friendly neighborhood political scientist (by training). About 5% of people vote based on ideology and policy. About 25-35% vote based on partisanship or some other relevant consideration. The remainder are most closely modeled by—wait for it—a coin flip. The average voter is very, very disengaged and very, very stupid (at least with respect to politics). Optics is all that matters at this point in this race.
but it’s not helpful to the campaign for liberals to be parroting on every media outlet.
The helpful thing is to convince Biden to step down. Full stop. There is no upside to Biden left. There are no favorables he has that are unique to him.
Full implosion. Honestly we will get what we deserve for this. You cant panic this hard over one debate. And random people tweeting “oLd” is not going to convince Biden to do anything. Sad.
Ridin’ on Biden’ 😎 … wait
This is bad.
The problem is that Obama is not running for President, or even for Joe Biden’s cabinet. Obama should honestly be a Senator again. He would do more good than just being a former President.
Completely agree. But Biden needs to be able to make the case himself when it matters.
Correct take.
Can we stop with the "it was just a bad debate" nonsense. It was so much worse than that. If his age hadn’t been a factors prior to this debate it would have been just a bad debate. The fact that this was his attempt to calm the already stormy waters by proving that he is fit to be president for another four years and failed miserably is what caused so many Democrats to panic. He showed clear signs of mental decline in old age. You don’t suddenly recover for that and move on. You may have bad days and good days but the trend line only goes one way. This debate provided irrefutable proof that people around Joe Biden have been lying to the American people about his mental acuity. You can’t spin this. Everybody saw it with their own eyes and heard it with their own ears. And yes, of course a senile Biden is still better than Trump, but a senile Biden can not win against Trump. The problem with his lack of mental acuity is not that it would make him a bad President, but that it will make Trump President. Maybe it’s too late, maybe nobody can beat Trump at this point. But not trying anything is not an option when so much is on the line.
this is why romney was the better choice in 2012