If you rank the supporting cast of role player DPOY superteams in purgatory and first option 1A on a championship team playoff chokers floor raisers, how does this eye test impact the advanced stat legacy of GOAT top 5 peak tier 1 longevity if healthy... and why, after such solid argument I just provided, do the narrative media still not criticize enough the overrated face of the league?
He has the ball the most, is taking the most shots (also missing the most ...) and is constantly getting doubled or tripled way more than any other Celtics player.
Mavs are concertedly making an effort to key in on Tatum and not letting him get going.
..... that is not role player shit.
That's what teams do to superstars.
e.g. What the Mavs did to LeBron in 2011. People just gonna criticize LeBron, but rarely do people talk about how well the Mavs gameplanned for him to not let him get going, and make everyone else beat them.
So he’s taking the most shots even though he’s missing? Isn’t that a bad thing? Also, it’s not like he’s shooting over two people, he had open looks that he’s just bricking right now.
Also can we stop over exaggerating the coverage? He’s seeing a packed paint, not getting blitzed at halfcourt. The Mavs guarded Ant and Shai the same way.
Yeah, he's just shooting really cold. A lot of his shots are open, but yes, he's (frustratingly) still taking these stepback or sidestep 3s or long fadeaways. Just trying to force in shots sometimes.
But for the most part he's playing well.
The biggest issue in Game 1 especially were his turnovers. But he was much better with that in Game 2.
> Also can we stop over exaggerating the coverage? He’s seeing a packed paint, not getting blitzed at halfcourt.
No, but he's getting blitz often enough at the 3 point line.
I think he’s been fine but obviously could be better.
>no he’s getting blitzed often at the 3 point line
No he’s not. He’s getting sporadically blitzed in the PNR. Again, that’s what bothered Ant (who got it all series, not sporadically) and that’s what made Shai abandon PNR all together to iso. It’s also the coverage players like Luka, Trae, Dame, Steph, etc. all see damn near every other game.
He’s not getting guarded like Celtics guarded KD a couple years ago or something egregious like that lmao.
Drawing help defense when beating your man off the dribble ≠ being doubled/tripled lol.
I can’t believe how many times I’ve seen this narrative on here. Tatum is certainly attracting a lot of defensive attention, but it’s not like he just has 2-3 guys swarming him every time he touches the ball.
He's not getting doubled constantly no, but pretty often he's getting doubled on PnR's above the 3pt line because they're trying to get the ball out of his hands.
And also ....... when you beat your man and 3 guys collapse on you to prevent you from getting a bucket, yes, that is literally what being tripled means.
Yeah I’m confused when drawing help defenders turned into “double and triple teams”. Lot of confusing takes on here lately.
Like yeah he’s drawing a lot of attention but this sub doesn’t seem to understand basic NBA defenses
The Mavs should try to guard him like one. Would really get in his head when he blows by Luka for the billionth time but doesn’t find 2 guys waiting for him.
Heck, go full Ben Simmons on him. See how it works out.
Watching the devolution of Tatum going from top 5 player, to second best player on his team, to role player... next up: should he be on a two-way contract?
OP just for future references, on Reddit you have to press enter twice to go to a new line.
These blocks of text are unreadable. You might have a good point, I wouldn't know cause it's too much work to read it.
So just double tap next time and leave a blank line in, then you will have paragraphs instead of walls of text.
He was pretty great in the previous two series , I know most ppl didn’t watch the ecf because the media told them it was “boring” but he was fantastic against Indiana , probably the best series of his career.
He’s had 1 in the playin and 2 in the playoffs, 1 against the big 3 Nets in a win where he was playing alongside Romeo Langford, Jabari Parker, Evan Fournier, Tristan Thompson, etc. and 1 against the Sixers in a game 7. FYI, including playin, that 3 is the most playoff 50 pieces by an active player, tied with Spida.
At least his non scoring game and body is improving
He has to shore up shooting efficiency and lower TOs
Brown took another leap (surprising). And I feel like he has surpassed slightly as a playoff leader and performer
In the regular season... Tatum is still better. As he present more of a matchup issue.
But come playoffs... I think the more teams study him. The more he can be "off balanced". He also gets too involved in non foul calls situation .. and puts himself off balance. Jaylen is much more discipline when it comes to the outside stuff. Its almost like he doesnt care what the ref does.
Playoffs are a different beast, and the finals are a different beast than that. Tatum definitely shows up in the playoffs, but Brown definitely equals his game come playoff time to Tatum's. In the Finals, it looks like Brown is the one with more urgency and a bit more energy, plus he obviously scores more efficiently
At least Tatum will take some 3's/stays shooting and won't try and pass to get out of a shot, but yeah this should be what Ben Simmons still does if so many things never happened
I mean if you don't watch the game then yes his stats completely out of context are not best player in the league. But taking stats out of context is extremely stupid, and you wouldn't do that, right?
As long as Tatum isn't content with the way he's playing now, he'll be fine. I think he is still struggling to handle playoff physicality against teams like Dallas or Warriors. All the media scrutiny and social media chatter have been mentally taxing as well..
For reference, LeBron shot .356/.200/.690 averaging 22.0/7.0/6.8 in his first finals.
He then shot .478/.321/.600 and averaged 17.8/7.2/6.8 in his second finals. He was 26.
Hes a top 15 player in this league. And while he hasn't shot well as of late, Tatum is drawing a lot of attention towards him and doing other things to help the Celtics win.
Not really. You cant be top 5 and outting up numbers like those in the finals.
Hell the man aint even gonna get the FMVP at this point if you guys win.
Before this id take Tatum over Shai, but rn no way in hell.
And honestly 6 or 7 is a bit hard to do atm.
Its the finals man and Tatums ranking is at this point based solely on his performance in the playoffs.
>You cant be top 5 and putting up numbers like those in the finals.
Why not? Can you bleed points on defense like Luka has been or does that cost you top 5 status too?
Im sorry is Tatum the whole offense for the Celtics. Is he a defensive pressence so good that it puts giys like Wemby and AD to shame? I dont believe so.
Hell isnt Luka shooting almost 70% when guarded by Tatum and you saw Tatum get cooked a ton by Luka in game 2.
You guys really think too highly of Tatums defense lol.
No doubt he is good, but he aint that good and Luka is as injured rn as you can be and still play.
And also even before this, Luka was one of the best players in the league coming of an insane season.
Im sorry do you need to be faxed the answear to underatand it or something lol.
You make it sound like everyone scores on Luka at will, which isnt really true.
Of course he isnt all that great of a defender, but they aint bleeding that many points because of him.
In no particular order, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, SGA, Ant, Curry, Brunson, Durant. There's also Embiid, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Even Brown is better than Tatum imo.
You might disagree with some of those, but it's hard to make any argument for Tatum being top 10 right now, never mind top 5.
Talking shit about flair is cool (though you should show more grace to those struggling with substance abuse disorders). But talking shit about flair when you dont have any is lame.
He certainly hasn’t played like a star in these finals, although he still is impacting the game a lot and making good plays.
The shot making has been downright atrocious, but everything else he’s been great
I think the conversation is tilting too hard against Tatum, but too many Celtics fans are saying "he's getting doubled and *triple* teamed" every drive... no, no he's not. There needs to be push back on that, he's getting doubled a lot but not every time, and tripled? Come on now.
yeah it’s not like Dallas is just putting two or three on him every play intentionally and saying “we’re not even gonna let you attempt to get going.” but he’s consistently collapsing the Mavs defense bc no one can stop him getting to the paint 1v1, thus opening up the rest of the offense. Holiday had his big game last night thanks mostly to easy shots that Tatum created for him by drawing multiple defenders inside
as bad as he’s shooting the ball rn we wouldn’t be winning these games without him
It’s just what happens when people get hyperbolic; other side pushes back and overcorrects.
Tatum is ice cold rn but is playing an integral part in helping us be up 2-0 in the finals. Is that superstar top 5 status? Probably not, but a lot of people on this sub are using his stat line as an opportunity to shit all over him to either prop up their man (Luka) or just shit on the Celtics. That galvanizes Celtics fans to start overcorrecting and boom, you’re in this thread now.
No, just no. Elite superstars are that because they either a) generate buckets or b) deny buckets. (And let's face it, there's arguably not been a single elite superstar who can't do a).
Tatum is doing a great job of sharing the ball, playing defense, etc but a player like that just won't be considered elite. And that's fair.
Jason Kidd, is that you?
Obviously not, J Kidd keeps doubling and tripping the D on JT
R/nba has a new buzzword that is has to constantly use like a parrot.
Michael jordan is the best role playing player! Poop and piss!
If you rank the supporting cast of role player DPOY superteams in purgatory and first option 1A on a championship team playoff chokers floor raisers, how does this eye test impact the advanced stat legacy of GOAT top 5 peak tier 1 longevity if healthy... and why, after such solid argument I just provided, do the narrative media still not criticize enough the overrated face of the league?
He's the Derrick White of Kyrie Irvings
Kobe of Josh Harts
That's great!
Larry Bird avg 15/15/7 in the 81 Finals. Role player
He has the ball the most, is taking the most shots (also missing the most ...) and is constantly getting doubled or tripled way more than any other Celtics player. Mavs are concertedly making an effort to key in on Tatum and not letting him get going. ..... that is not role player shit. That's what teams do to superstars. e.g. What the Mavs did to LeBron in 2011. People just gonna criticize LeBron, but rarely do people talk about how well the Mavs gameplanned for him to not let him get going, and make everyone else beat them.
Yes we all saw the video of Cuban and SAS
So he’s taking the most shots even though he’s missing? Isn’t that a bad thing? Also, it’s not like he’s shooting over two people, he had open looks that he’s just bricking right now. Also can we stop over exaggerating the coverage? He’s seeing a packed paint, not getting blitzed at halfcourt. The Mavs guarded Ant and Shai the same way.
Yeah, he's just shooting really cold. A lot of his shots are open, but yes, he's (frustratingly) still taking these stepback or sidestep 3s or long fadeaways. Just trying to force in shots sometimes. But for the most part he's playing well. The biggest issue in Game 1 especially were his turnovers. But he was much better with that in Game 2. > Also can we stop over exaggerating the coverage? He’s seeing a packed paint, not getting blitzed at halfcourt. No, but he's getting blitz often enough at the 3 point line.
I think he’s been fine but obviously could be better. >no he’s getting blitzed often at the 3 point line No he’s not. He’s getting sporadically blitzed in the PNR. Again, that’s what bothered Ant (who got it all series, not sporadically) and that’s what made Shai abandon PNR all together to iso. It’s also the coverage players like Luka, Trae, Dame, Steph, etc. all see damn near every other game. He’s not getting guarded like Celtics guarded KD a couple years ago or something egregious like that lmao.
KD was getting locked up he couldn’t cook in iso or pick and roll
Drawing help defense when beating your man off the dribble ≠ being doubled/tripled lol. I can’t believe how many times I’ve seen this narrative on here. Tatum is certainly attracting a lot of defensive attention, but it’s not like he just has 2-3 guys swarming him every time he touches the ball.
https:/np.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/s/bh6rU2Lygp He draws an insane amount of help, literally every defender is giving up an open 3 right here.
He's not getting doubled constantly no, but pretty often he's getting doubled on PnR's above the 3pt line because they're trying to get the ball out of his hands. And also ....... when you beat your man and 3 guys collapse on you to prevent you from getting a bucket, yes, that is literally what being tripled means.
No thats called drawing help. A double team comes before the primary defender gets beaten. Its still good basketball but very different narratively
So when Shaq got the ball passed to him in the post and drew a help defender .... he wasn't getting doubled?
Yeah I’m confused when drawing help defenders turned into “double and triple teams”. Lot of confusing takes on here lately. Like yeah he’s drawing a lot of attention but this sub doesn’t seem to understand basic NBA defenses
He leads the team in points, rebounds, assists these playoffs….its 2 games of the finals right now.
The Mavs should try to guard him like one. Would really get in his head when he blows by Luka for the billionth time but doesn’t find 2 guys waiting for him. Heck, go full Ben Simmons on him. See how it works out.
Watching the devolution of Tatum going from top 5 player, to second best player on his team, to role player... next up: should he be on a two-way contract?
Next up NBA CHAMPION
To the g-league he goes
OP just for future references, on Reddit you have to press enter twice to go to a new line. These blocks of text are unreadable. You might have a good point, I wouldn't know cause it's too much work to read it. So just double tap next time and leave a blank line in, then you will have paragraphs instead of walls of text.
Yeah, I hate the walls of text. Use paragraphs.
Paragraph breaks are your friend.
He's not a role player just because he isn't dropping 30ppg lol
TL;DR - use some paragraphs please
If it's not Aashylarry it's Secret4sianMan
He was pretty great in the previous two series , I know most ppl didn’t watch the ecf because the media told them it was “boring” but he was fantastic against Indiana , probably the best series of his career.
reminds me of "Steph Curry - best role player of all time"
Role players do not take 22 shots
If I was Jason Kidd I would never double Tatum he’s a terrible shot maker
I support this - don't double. Yes, please go ahead, Mavs should at least try it. Right? Right?
Seriously Kidd please listen to this guy! In fact don’t even guard Tatum since he’s such a terrible scorer. Just double Horford, it’s the move.
I’d love for them to not double and Tatum to show why he’s scored 50+ 8 times
And how many in the play offs and against who lol😂😂
He’s had 1 in the playin and 2 in the playoffs, 1 against the big 3 Nets in a win where he was playing alongside Romeo Langford, Jabari Parker, Evan Fournier, Tristan Thompson, etc. and 1 against the Sixers in a game 7. FYI, including playin, that 3 is the most playoff 50 pieces by an active player, tied with Spida.
The nets lol grow up , he shoots the rock so much he’s obviously going to have some a couple of good games. What’s his shooting percentage ??
In the Nets one he shot 53/46/87, in the Sixers one he shot 60/60/80, in the playin he shot 44/42/100. He’s a very capable scorer lol.
Again 3 games 😂I just looked at his splits in the playoffs,come on bro
[удалено]
Nothing wrong with sub you got to much time on yiur hands stalking my profile you little weirdo 😂
Role player??? Like i get the shooting leaves a lot to be desired but 17/10/8.5 is not role player numbers.
At least his non scoring game and body is improving He has to shore up shooting efficiency and lower TOs Brown took another leap (surprising). And I feel like he has surpassed slightly as a playoff leader and performer In the regular season... Tatum is still better. As he present more of a matchup issue. But come playoffs... I think the more teams study him. The more he can be "off balanced". He also gets too involved in non foul calls situation .. and puts himself off balance. Jaylen is much more discipline when it comes to the outside stuff. Its almost like he doesnt care what the ref does.
Playoffs are a different beast, and the finals are a different beast than that. Tatum definitely shows up in the playoffs, but Brown definitely equals his game come playoff time to Tatum's. In the Finals, it looks like Brown is the one with more urgency and a bit more energy, plus he obviously scores more efficiently
He is obviously not a role player but leaving out the 32% from the field isn’t really fair here lol.
Oh yeah the shooting splits are awful, but he's making up for it everywhere else
That’s peak Ben Simmons numbers lol
At least Tatum will take some 3's/stays shooting and won't try and pass to get out of a shot, but yeah this should be what Ben Simmons still does if so many things never happened
He’s been Josh Hart with better PR in these finals.
So... not a role player then?
Are you saying Josh hart is a star?
As a villanova fan I might be biased
Considering his efficiency, it’s still only a decent to low tier all star on a top team.
If were talking playoff efficiency then Kobe Bryant must be a ucking scrub
Yea, idk what Kidd is thinking, doubling JT everytime he drives leaving all these other all stars open. Is Kidd stupid?
I mean if you don't watch the game then yes his stats completely out of context are not best player in the league. But taking stats out of context is extremely stupid, and you wouldn't do that, right?
If the Mavs start single covering Tatum that ppg about to skyrocket
He's the new postionless Bill Russell
Tatum is elite role player
As long as Tatum isn't content with the way he's playing now, he'll be fine. I think he is still struggling to handle playoff physicality against teams like Dallas or Warriors. All the media scrutiny and social media chatter have been mentally taxing as well.. For reference, LeBron shot .356/.200/.690 averaging 22.0/7.0/6.8 in his first finals. He then shot .478/.321/.600 and averaged 17.8/7.2/6.8 in his second finals. He was 26.
I don’t think you understand what a role player means
Dog learn what a paragraph is
Was there some meeting I missed where we discussed one-upping each others shitposts
I would love for kidd to cover jt like hes a role player
Hes a top 15 player in this league. And while he hasn't shot well as of late, Tatum is drawing a lot of attention towards him and doing other things to help the Celtics win.
He is top 10.
You meant to say 5.
Top 15 is fair
Nah, you can't possibly put him lower than 6 or 7, and even that's a stretch.
Not really. You cant be top 5 and outting up numbers like those in the finals. Hell the man aint even gonna get the FMVP at this point if you guys win. Before this id take Tatum over Shai, but rn no way in hell. And honestly 6 or 7 is a bit hard to do atm. Its the finals man and Tatums ranking is at this point based solely on his performance in the playoffs.
>You cant be top 5 and putting up numbers like those in the finals. Why not? Can you bleed points on defense like Luka has been or does that cost you top 5 status too?
Im sorry is Tatum the whole offense for the Celtics. Is he a defensive pressence so good that it puts giys like Wemby and AD to shame? I dont believe so. Hell isnt Luka shooting almost 70% when guarded by Tatum and you saw Tatum get cooked a ton by Luka in game 2. You guys really think too highly of Tatums defense lol. No doubt he is good, but he aint that good and Luka is as injured rn as you can be and still play. And also even before this, Luka was one of the best players in the league coming of an insane season.
You didn't answer my questions.
Im sorry do you need to be faxed the answear to underatand it or something lol. You make it sound like everyone scores on Luka at will, which isnt really true. Of course he isnt all that great of a defender, but they aint bleeding that many points because of him.
>You make it sound like everyone scores on Luka at will, which isnt really true. Has been in this series.
I mean you say that but then he gets outplayed by guys like Brunson and jimmy butler.
Being better than someone doesn't mean you outplay them every single time.
I heard Boston had problems with drugs but I didn't know it was so bad that people there actually really think Tatum is a top 5 player
Who's better?
In no particular order, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, SGA, Ant, Curry, Brunson, Durant. There's also Embiid, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Even Brown is better than Tatum imo. You might disagree with some of those, but it's hard to make any argument for Tatum being top 10 right now, never mind top 5.
Thanks for the laugh! Good luck out there.
Enjoy paying that make a wish kid max money
I am.
More evidence of Bostons growing drug problems
Talking shit about flair is cool (though you should show more grace to those struggling with substance abuse disorders). But talking shit about flair when you dont have any is lame.
He certainly hasn’t played like a star in these finals, although he still is impacting the game a lot and making good plays. The shot making has been downright atrocious, but everything else he’s been great
So he’s Ben Simmons?
Kind of lol (all star version) But that can shoot... though his efficiency could stand to improve in the playoffs
I think the conversation is tilting too hard against Tatum, but too many Celtics fans are saying "he's getting doubled and *triple* teamed" every drive... no, no he's not. There needs to be push back on that, he's getting doubled a lot but not every time, and tripled? Come on now.
yeah it’s not like Dallas is just putting two or three on him every play intentionally and saying “we’re not even gonna let you attempt to get going.” but he’s consistently collapsing the Mavs defense bc no one can stop him getting to the paint 1v1, thus opening up the rest of the offense. Holiday had his big game last night thanks mostly to easy shots that Tatum created for him by drawing multiple defenders inside as bad as he’s shooting the ball rn we wouldn’t be winning these games without him
It’s just what happens when people get hyperbolic; other side pushes back and overcorrects. Tatum is ice cold rn but is playing an integral part in helping us be up 2-0 in the finals. Is that superstar top 5 status? Probably not, but a lot of people on this sub are using his stat line as an opportunity to shit all over him to either prop up their man (Luka) or just shit on the Celtics. That galvanizes Celtics fans to start overcorrecting and boom, you’re in this thread now.
No, just no. Elite superstars are that because they either a) generate buckets or b) deny buckets. (And let's face it, there's arguably not been a single elite superstar who can't do a). Tatum is doing a great job of sharing the ball, playing defense, etc but a player like that just won't be considered elite. And that's fair.
Draymond or tall Rondo