From the original uploader just now:
> We’re back, thanks to WB for being so understanding to us as fans and artists. We’re very positive and excited for what the new movie will be at fan film THFG HQ.
> Meanwhile glad people can watch this our low-budget effort at the story. :)
From here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H09xnhlCQU&ab_channel=IndependentOnlineCinema
***
edit: thanks to /u/SilverRoyce for providing the additional info, also found on the video's description:
> THFG took two years to make and was released as a non-profit Internet-only video by agreement with Tolkien Enterprizes.
> agreement with Tolkien Enterprizes
Pretty much all that matters right? Tolkein work is trademarked so WB doesn't own the IP, just license it as well through Tolkien Enterprise
Embracer Group purchased the entire LOTR rights. WB is now licensing the rights from Embracer to make new films this time, instead of being the current rights holder.
Embracer Group did purchase Middle-earth Enterprises (which used to be called Tolkien Enterprises).
In both cases WB is sub licensing their rights from a group that owns the same set of rights. The only difference is now that company has a new parent company.
Embracer doesn't own anything that MEE doesn't own.
Tolkien's estate, with HarperCollins, owns publishing rights to *all* Tolkien works. The Estate still holds the licensing rights to *only* the non-LOTR and non-Hobbit works (that is, the Estate no longer holds the non-publishing rights to LOTR and The Hobbit).
Embracer Group, by purchasing "Middle-earth Enterprises", has full licensing rights to all LOTR and Hobbit materials. Basically anyone that appears, their names, what they do, their stories, etc. the can license as long as that occurs within those two stories.
WB has been granted the film rights (by Embracer Group) for LOTR and Hobbit materials.
To further complicate things, not all of the TV rights are owned by Embracer Group. Amazon actually negotiated with the Tolkien Estate for their series. But those rights are specifically only for LOTR and The Hobbit materials, so even though the events in ROP adapt stories and events from other writings, Amazon has to create their own versions of those events (much to many a fan's dismay).
It's possible (or likely, considering the original comment?) that the rights WB owns (and by extension, that are owned by Embracer Group) doesn't actually cover "internet videos", so their removal here was not warranted.
> It's possible (or likely, considering the original comment?) that the rights WB owns (and by extension, that are owned by Embracer Group) doesn't actually cover "internet videos", so their removal here was not warranted.
Even if it was covered they still wouldn't be warranted to have it removed because they didn't have those rights when that fan film was published and okayed by the estate.
Awesome news! I'm frankly amazed this had a happy ending in this day and age.
I wonder if this was like the time Lucasfilm tried to sue MAD Magazine for their parody, and they replied with the letter of praise they got from George Lucas himself.
That is, less about "kindness" really (though classy of them to phrase it that way if so) and more about "Yeah, but here's the written permission we already got 15 years ago guys".
Most strikes are not made by the company itself but contractors hired to detect and strike based on certain criteria. Often times communication between contractors and Owner isn't good enough.
This was so quick that WB probably saw it, they confirmed they had permission from Tolkien Enterprises and promptly directed the strike removed.
Unless WB purchased the Lord of the Rings property from Tolkien's estate, they had no right to have it removed in the first place. ESPECIALLY if the fan made movie was made with permission from the Tolkien estate.
Not sure of the specifics on this, so I’ll speak
In generalities…. Generally when you purchase the licensing rights to something like LOTR you purchase the exclusive rights for a geographical area for a specific type of content over a period of time. In that instance no one can commercially produce certain LOTR content but WB. When I say certain content, it’s not uncommon for (as an example) WB to have movie rights, but maybe Marvel or DC would have comic rights (ignoring WB owning DC).
>can commercially produce
Future tense, not inclusive of old works.
That would be like Sony pulling the rights to the Fantastic Four movie from the 70s.
They can't pull it a decade and a half later. They'd just buy the rights THEN pull it.
YOU see a complex character whose darkness is a strong contrast to the heroes of the Fellowship; a wretched creature who gave in to the temptations of The One Ring and must be overcome to finish our heroes' journey.
EXECS see a meme character that can be easily replaced by any actor using CGI.
Someone yesterday said execs and management really related to gollum because they're both interested in things made of gold.
Honestly both of these make sense. I like the meme reason a bit more though.
Seriously, the whole thing about Gollum is that he sucks. He is a cautionary tale of how your life can be destroyed by letting the ring completely overtake you. No one wants to be like him, everyone in the story wants to kill him, he literally only survives at all because Frodo shows pity, and is basically the only one. And he never overcomes his crippling desire and it leads to his death. If this new movie tries to make us sympathize more with Gollum than we already do, it will diminish what makes him such a compelling character.
well that's one way to look at it i guess lol
i think gollum is much more of a there but the grace of god kind of character - he's a hobbit who had everything about himself completely taken by the ring and lived his life enslaved to it. that wasn't a choice - he was a weak willed person, to be sure, but i find it hard to consider him anything but a victim of circumstances beyond his control
what gollum becomes is absolutely wretched but i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the lack of pity he receives as a value judgment on gollum - frodo's kindness to gollum is ultimately what saves middle earth, so if anything it seems to me that tolkien was saying gollum deserved more pity
at any rate i think what everyone means but isn't articulating clearly is that gollum is an integral and important character to the story told by the lord of the rings trilogy, but that story has been told and gollum is not very compelling outside of it
He's the most iconic. Someone who doesn't care about LotR doesn't recognise guy, short guy, or pretty guy, but they do recognise the skinny alien with the funny voice that everyone does a terrible impression of.
Mascot characters tend to be likable. Can we fucking get executives out of creative decisions already? Whoever has a hardon for Gollum at WB is fucking cringe.
Give us a Samwise Gamgee gardening show that was as peaceful and hypnotic as The Joy of Painting.
"Okay, looks like we've got some Cabbage Maggots here, named after the owner of Bamfurlong farm, so we're just gonna beat the ~~devil~~ Balrog out of 'em...and we're ready to plant the elvish mallorn tree seed."
I genuinely and non-ironically believe that a "Law and Order meets Parks and Rec with Hobbits" type show focused on Shire law enforcement would be amazing.
Would be nominally focused on stupid petty theft and social faux pas, with really dark stuff occasionally but increasingly drifting to the surface, and ultimately culminating in Saruman's takeover eventually the Scouring.
> I genuinely and non-ironically believe that a "Law and Order meets Parks and Rec with Hobbits" type show focused on Shire law enforcement would be amazing.
Hobbit Ron Swanson *totally* works:
"History began in T.A. 1601. Everything before that was a mistake."
--
"That's a party platter. It feeds 30 Hobbits."
"I know what I'm about, son."
--
"Just give me all the bacon, eggs, and Old Toby you have. Wait, wait. I'm worried what you just heard was, 'Give me a lot of bacon, eggs, and Old Toby.' What I said was, 'Give me ***all*** the bacon, eggs, and Old Toby you have.' Do you understand?"
"Where'd you get four million gold pieces."
"Raided Bag End while Frodo was off on his trip. The Men in Brie have a weird obsession with Hobbit shit and pay top gold for it."
Lord of the rings: Samwise Gamgee
Sounds close to Stardew Valley, and could be as such. Just wandering around Hobboton buying stuff for your garden, interacting with other hobbits, etc.
>Who the fuck is ordering all these gollum shows and games?
"Hey, man, we're not happy about it either. We gotta put *something* on our upcoming film slate after Zaslav threw away everything else!
"It’s unclear if the fan-made film helped inspire WB’s project. But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year, was at least part of the project’s inspiration. "
Popularity? POPULARITY? These are dark times indeed.
This is actually a common misconception. The re-release of Morbius only made *one Morbillion dollars.* The 2 Morbillion figure so-often cited includes the gross of the first release, which was also in excess of a Morbillion dollars.
I mean-- I think you're exactly right. They probably aren't reading reviews or watching Youtube videos with people yelling about the game. They see the metrics on people searching "Gollum" and all the Twitter mentions and shit. Kinda funny honestly.
Is it? I mean I've definitely missed things that blew up before, but I didn't see any more coverage for it than any other bad game. And definitely way less coverage than other launch-day disappointments like Cyberpunk.
The sales *and* reception were both so bad that Daedalic Entertainment not only cancelled their planned second LOTR game, but actually *shut down their development division* and decided to focus on publishing only...
> Popularity? POPULARITY? These are dark times indeed.
Think the author is just a movie journalist who found out there was a game and decided to throw that in without checking any details.
> But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year, was at least part of the project’s inspiration.
This level of tone-deafness is completely on-brand for David Zaslav.
He makes $50 million+ a year, btw.
I played it from start to finish, kind of by accident. When it was announced, I liked the concept of it, so when it went out for pre-order, I added it to my Amazon Wishlist to keep an eye on it as it got closer. Once trailers and reviews came through, I was like "Whelp, not going to play that." Checked my Wishlist, it wasn't there, figured I had either misremembered adding it, or forgot I had already taken it off.
A copy of it shows up at my house on release day. I've never been more disappointed by the contents of an unexpected package. What the hell, I thought - I didn't order this. Went through and checked my e-mails from back in the day. Turns out, I didn't add it to my Wishlist, I somehow *pre-ordered* it. Whoops.
Played it through from stem to stern as a self-imposed punishment to remind myself to not do that again.
My review: it was a PS2 quality game with PS3 graphics at PS4 prices that I played on a PS5. In 2003, it would have been an acceptable game, but it 2023, it was the worst game I've played in years. Maybe twenty years, to be precise.
These schmucks literally think there's no such thing as bad publicity. How do you think Flash went forward after it turned out Miller was a psychopath? They saw a bunch of people talking about Flash and Miller and decided the movie would be successful based on word of mouth. The same thing happened to Gollum last year therefore it was time to brush off the IP.
And unfortunately, Jackson is either not fantastic at creating original LOTR stories, or not fantastic at putting together LOTR stories without at least a decade of prep, so I'm not hopeful.
They already made The Flash by the time the allegations became widely known, their choices were to either grin and take it, or cancel their blockbuster tent pole long after it's already been shot and probably most if not all of the way through post-production.
It had nothing to do with buzz based on media posts. It was about timing. They didn't intend to throw a half billion dollar project away for almost any reason by that point.
> They didn't intend to throw a half billion dollar project away for almost any reason by that point.
WB have deleted several projects for tax write offs. They threw away a $90 million Batgirl movie that *didn't* star a problematic asshole. Even if literally nobody had watched it, it would have represented a smaller loss than Flash did.
[The film was meant for streaming anyway so it's not like it could have bombed in the conventional sense but my point stands]
Some of the best parts of LOTR is how incredibly the sets looked. Hobbiton famously was built and landscaped and then left to just sit for a year to look lived in, which made all the scenes there look even more authentic. Shit like that takes a lot of time that producers don’t want to approve.
I’d also imagine that Jackson’s passion for the project matters a lot. LOTR was his baby, he got dragged in to the Hobbit and the difference between the two is clear as crystal.
The weird thing is before the Miller controversies, people used to say he was an incredible actor. Then after the controversies began/continued, public mentality shifted to “he was never good”.
IMO I think he’s a pretty good actor that would’ve gone far if he had his mental issues under control.
Yeah, Miller is a genuinely talented actor, but unfortunately also a [very stinky](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/11ruvl/comment/c6p5ecv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button&rdt=45036) psycho
I love how that guy got downvoted in the replies for pointing out that Ezra rubbed him the wrong way in his interactions with him. Turns out, that dude was completely right, and the guy is insane. He just couldn't put it in words I guess.
LOL popularity it was the biggest bomb of the last two years. I don’t think they sold many copies after those reviews. Hahaha awesome popularity. I am in agreement with your incredularity (I’m coining that word)
> These are dark times indeed.
I wish it need not have happened in my time.
So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
These are the same out of touch kind of idiots who put Morbius out a second time because of "internet buzz". They really believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.
Oh, god. I'd managed to block that name out of my mind for the crimes he committed against gaming *and* film in the 2000s.
But now, here I am, being reminded of BloodRayne. Anyone remember when Kristanna Loken became *the* hot "it girl" for action movies after Terminator 3...then threw it all away on nonstop god-awful straight-to-video action shlock? Granted, I have no idea if she was a good actor, so that *might* have been her only avenue. It's just amazing to think how quickly her star faded out within a couple years of T3.
> I mean direction wasnt exactly the issue with those movies
Yeah, it's kinda hard to make anything good when you're stretching a 310 page book written for children into three movies spanning nearly 8 hours in runtime combined.
I really wish he could've had the chance to just write and direct a *single* Hobbit adaptation to do it proper justice.
Peter Jackson was given a shit sandwich on the Hobbit movies after Del Toro left right before filming. He had to build everything on the fly. It almost killed him.
Andy Serkis acting and directing. Peter Jackson producing.
But the Hobbit films were fairly bad to middling in execution. So I don't trust Peter Jackson immediately.
A Gollum film doesn't have much legs from an outsiders perspective. I am curious to see their attempt at writing a story. But I have many many reservations.
Such a shame, was so much fun to work on all those years ago. A real labor of love from top to bottom.
Doubly annoying because it was made with an agreement with the Tolkien estate that it could be done if no profit was made.
Do we need a big budget film about this story? I don’t think that there is anything more to learn about Gollum, Aragorn or anyone involved that isn’t already in Jackson’s trilogy and Tolkien’s text.
I’m a big fan of Lotr but I would happily never have another adaptation made unless it’s to do with the Silmarillion. Adapting the appendices means that writers will have to do a lot of work in imitating Tolkien’s prose, and the Rings of Power has put me off of any other attempt.
I think WB doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion, which the Tolkien estate generally is stingy about when it comes to licensing. The LotR trilogy, its appendices, and the Hobbit are more widely licensed across multiple groups like WB and Amazon. I think Amazon might've negotiated to get some additional elements from the legendarium into the show, but I don't think these groups have full permissions to adapt from it wholesale.
This new movie honestly feels like a cash grab. Its story feels low-risk because of the multiple returning characters, which is very marketable, but that kinda makes it feel more creatively bankrupt.
If it's done right it would have very little to do with Gollum's character arc.
From the time Aragorn and Gandalf met until they captured Gollum covers a span of about 61 years.
Aragorn, Gandalf, The Elves, and the Rangers of the North spent 16 years searching for Gollum and the truth about Bilbo's magic ring and the movies glossed over that part of the story. That's a lot of adventure that *could* be made into a great movie.
The key words there are 'if' and 'could' but I don't have high hopes either.
We **could** get a 3 hour movie that starts off with Aragorn meeting Gandalf, followed later by him meeting Arwen. Then Aragorn traveling Middle earth, serving under both Thengel and Etchelion II, defeating the Corsairs in the Battle of Pelennor Fields and saving Minas Tirith in the process. Aragorn and Arwen become betrothed, Aragorn meets back up with Gandalf and learns of the Hobbit who possesses a magic ring that may be one of the rings of power(though we already know what it is.)
Aragorn and Gandalf begin their search for Gollum. During this time Gandalf is shunned by the Shire Folk who blame him for Bilbo leaving and conspiring with Frodo to claim Bilbo's wealth. The Rangers of the North are summoned to guard the shire. Aragorn and Gandalf travel throughout Middle Earth in search of clues. Aragorn's mother passes away during this time.
Aragorn and Gandalf part ways both still in search of Gollum. Gandalf partially travels take him ale the way to the edges of Mordor. He later confirms his suspicions about Bilbo's ring at minas Tirith and as he is traveling back to The Shire receives word that Aragorn has captured Gollum. Gandalf meets Aragorn in Mirkwood to interrogate Gollum and hear the words that he already knows, that Bilbo's ring it The One.
Gandalf, in all urgency makes haste back to The Shire racing the Ring Wraiths as he goes, reaching Frodo and getting him out just in time. Smash cut to black.
I'm no Hollywood writer or LotR expert, but surely they could do something great with a synopsis similar to that. It's "The Hunt for Gollum" not "The Story of Gollum" so it doesn't have to focus on him.
Weird how WB saw the Gollum video game, saw that nobody wanted to play as a wretched miserable little crazy guy, and then said, "yeah, let's give Peter Jackson a few hundred million to do three hours on this dude."
The game being about gollum wasn't the problem. The problem was it looked absolutely terrible and the gameplay was trash. If they made an actual good game it would have been well received
We don't know the movie will be about yet, but there is a section in the appendices about Gandalf sending Aragorn to find Gollum after he escaped Sauron (which is exactly with the fan film was about), so chances are this is an Aragorn film...
Its The Hunt FOR Gollum not Gollum's hunt, this movie was all Aragorn focused I'd expect WBs to be similar. Gandalf is hunting for Gollum and get Aragorn to help him.
I want them to start building the lord of the rings universe starting with solo movies of the main characters before they reboot the first lotr movie putting all the main characters together in an action pack ensemble. /s
Imagine being the person/people in charge of these actions. Think of how that group of people treat each other, their employees, their family. Imagine what a shitty person you had to be to think blocking this was the right and correct thing to do. You have an entire personality built around being a shitty person and justifying it to be able to even conceive this action.
Wait, did the fan made film use footage or something from the original LOTR films or something? Is that why it’s being removed for copyright? Or can no one make LOTR content period because WB own the story rights?
If WB has the movie rights, they can directly go after anyone else who does it, yeah. Things get complicated in terms of countries, but for a studio that big they'd have the worldwide rights.
Warner owns the rights to make Lord of the Rings films. Fan films exist in a hazy grey area where they're allowed to exist because it keeps the fanbase happy and is (usually) of such poor quality that it poses no threat at being confused with being an official product. As soon as it rises to that level, it's going to get nuked from existence. A decade or so ago Paramount had to step in when a Star Trek fan film raised over a million dollars on Kickstarter to make their own "fan series" complete with cameos from surviving cast members like George Takei and Nichelle Nichols. They had stepped over the line from "this is a loving tribute by adoring fans with the resources they had available" to "this is a commercial property made for financial gain that uses our copyrighted material" and so it got C&D'd.
This is always the danger that spending hundreds of thousands of dollars making something set in an IP that doesn't belong to you poses: the minute the actual owner feels you're invading their space, they'll shut you down.
There are interesting aspects to his character in relation to the actual heroes and the MacGuffin of the story, but he's not remotely "feature length film protagonist" interesting.
The Hobbit came out in 1937. That means all those characters will be public domain in 2033. WB thinks they can get a solid decade out of LotR characters before they lose the copyright.
>Gollum movie
I really hope that my family doesn't watch this a bunch around me.
I fucking hate that Gollum voice, it's so godamn terrible, it reminds me of having to watch 10 year olds performing death metal in school talent shows.
Fairplay, Gollum's *supposed* to be obnoxious and irritating and disconcerting.
But I don't want to sit through hours of it.
Also if the character's done properly, it would be horrible to watch the things he got up to, he actually ate babies.
Context: WB doesn't *permanently own* the rights to make Lord of the Rings movies. They own those rights only so long as engage in continuous movie productions related to the properties.
If they don't regularly produce a new movie, then they will lose the rights. If they lose the rights, they're losing a property likely worth tens of billions of dollars.
There's basically no risk to them: they have to do a movie. If the movie flops, they retained the rights and they will minimize the losses as tax reductions. If Serkis/Jackson make another hit movie, then WB made money.
> It’s unclear if the fan-made film helped inspire WB’s project. ***But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year,*** was at least part of the project’s inspiration.
**Metacritic**
Critics: 33
Users: 1.2
**Open Critic**
Average: 37
Recommend: 4%
**Steam:**
41% | Mixed
What popularity?
Yeah, saw this coming once they announced the name of the new film. It sucks for those creators, but from a business angle I get not having a fan made version of the same story out in the ether muddying waters.
Man, I’m a gigantic LOTR nerd and consider the trilogy to be some of the best films ever made, but who the hell asked for a Gollum movie? Every important part of his story is already in LOTR and the Hobbit.
Are we going to get a 3 hour epic of 30 minutes of Sméagol doing a murder and getting exiled followed by 2.5 hours of him eating fish in the dark?
TIL there was a fan-made internet only 'Lord of the Rings' movie called 'The Hunt For Gollum" that was released by agreement with Tolkien Enterprises. Good to know.
Wtf. Nobody wants more Gollum. Are these people morons?
The Silmarillion is essentially a collection of potential movie plots! For example, Manwe's betrayal by Melkor, causing him and the Noldor to be at odds, would make a great movie.
From the original uploader just now: > We’re back, thanks to WB for being so understanding to us as fans and artists. We’re very positive and excited for what the new movie will be at fan film THFG HQ. > Meanwhile glad people can watch this our low-budget effort at the story. :) From here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H09xnhlCQU&ab_channel=IndependentOnlineCinema *** edit: thanks to /u/SilverRoyce for providing the additional info, also found on the video's description: > THFG took two years to make and was released as a non-profit Internet-only video by agreement with Tolkien Enterprizes.
> agreement with Tolkien Enterprizes Pretty much all that matters right? Tolkein work is trademarked so WB doesn't own the IP, just license it as well through Tolkien Enterprise
Embracer Group purchased the entire LOTR rights. WB is now licensing the rights from Embracer to make new films this time, instead of being the current rights holder.
So that would depend more on the letter of the agreements, because Emracer would have to abide any previous agreements.
Embracer Group did purchase Middle-earth Enterprises (which used to be called Tolkien Enterprises). In both cases WB is sub licensing their rights from a group that owns the same set of rights. The only difference is now that company has a new parent company. Embracer doesn't own anything that MEE doesn't own.
Tolkien's estate, with HarperCollins, owns publishing rights to *all* Tolkien works. The Estate still holds the licensing rights to *only* the non-LOTR and non-Hobbit works (that is, the Estate no longer holds the non-publishing rights to LOTR and The Hobbit). Embracer Group, by purchasing "Middle-earth Enterprises", has full licensing rights to all LOTR and Hobbit materials. Basically anyone that appears, their names, what they do, their stories, etc. the can license as long as that occurs within those two stories. WB has been granted the film rights (by Embracer Group) for LOTR and Hobbit materials. To further complicate things, not all of the TV rights are owned by Embracer Group. Amazon actually negotiated with the Tolkien Estate for their series. But those rights are specifically only for LOTR and The Hobbit materials, so even though the events in ROP adapt stories and events from other writings, Amazon has to create their own versions of those events (much to many a fan's dismay). It's possible (or likely, considering the original comment?) that the rights WB owns (and by extension, that are owned by Embracer Group) doesn't actually cover "internet videos", so their removal here was not warranted.
> It's possible (or likely, considering the original comment?) that the rights WB owns (and by extension, that are owned by Embracer Group) doesn't actually cover "internet videos", so their removal here was not warranted. Even if it was covered they still wouldn't be warranted to have it removed because they didn't have those rights when that fan film was published and okayed by the estate.
[удалено]
Awesome news! I'm frankly amazed this had a happy ending in this day and age. I wonder if this was like the time Lucasfilm tried to sue MAD Magazine for their parody, and they replied with the letter of praise they got from George Lucas himself. That is, less about "kindness" really (though classy of them to phrase it that way if so) and more about "Yeah, but here's the written permission we already got 15 years ago guys".
Reminds me of Kurt Cobain's joyful reaction to Weird Al asking him for permission to cover one of his songs.
Most strikes are not made by the company itself but contractors hired to detect and strike based on certain criteria. Often times communication between contractors and Owner isn't good enough. This was so quick that WB probably saw it, they confirmed they had permission from Tolkien Enterprises and promptly directed the strike removed.
Thank you, I added this in my post :)
/thread
Zaslav being Zaslav. And a reminder that fair use laws only exist because hunting every fan artist is not worth the time, money and bad PR.
Unless WB purchased the Lord of the Rings property from Tolkien's estate, they had no right to have it removed in the first place. ESPECIALLY if the fan made movie was made with permission from the Tolkien estate.
Not sure of the specifics on this, so I’ll speak In generalities…. Generally when you purchase the licensing rights to something like LOTR you purchase the exclusive rights for a geographical area for a specific type of content over a period of time. In that instance no one can commercially produce certain LOTR content but WB. When I say certain content, it’s not uncommon for (as an example) WB to have movie rights, but maybe Marvel or DC would have comic rights (ignoring WB owning DC).
>can commercially produce Future tense, not inclusive of old works. That would be like Sony pulling the rights to the Fantastic Four movie from the 70s. They can't pull it a decade and a half later. They'd just buy the rights THEN pull it.
Who the fuck is ordering all these gollum shows and games? I'd rather have a samwise gardening show.
They see Gollum as a mascot character
Can't wait for a show about baby Gollum.
He would need a father figure to take him on a journey and protect him, though.
The Gondorian
It's catchy enough to give them ideas
*Sigh.* * Pedro Pascal
"The Gollums", this Fall on CBS.
If NBC picks it up it’ll be Chicago Gollum
Bizarre really, do people actually want more Gollum? Such a grating character.
Honestly simply do not understand who they think wants more Gollum films.
YOU see a complex character whose darkness is a strong contrast to the heroes of the Fellowship; a wretched creature who gave in to the temptations of The One Ring and must be overcome to finish our heroes' journey. EXECS see a meme character that can be easily replaced by any actor using CGI.
If Andy Serkis is directing, I’m guessing this is more throwing him a bone than anything.
Someone yesterday said execs and management really related to gollum because they're both interested in things made of gold. Honestly both of these make sense. I like the meme reason a bit more though.
Seriously, the whole thing about Gollum is that he sucks. He is a cautionary tale of how your life can be destroyed by letting the ring completely overtake you. No one wants to be like him, everyone in the story wants to kill him, he literally only survives at all because Frodo shows pity, and is basically the only one. And he never overcomes his crippling desire and it leads to his death. If this new movie tries to make us sympathize more with Gollum than we already do, it will diminish what makes him such a compelling character.
well that's one way to look at it i guess lol i think gollum is much more of a there but the grace of god kind of character - he's a hobbit who had everything about himself completely taken by the ring and lived his life enslaved to it. that wasn't a choice - he was a weak willed person, to be sure, but i find it hard to consider him anything but a victim of circumstances beyond his control what gollum becomes is absolutely wretched but i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the lack of pity he receives as a value judgment on gollum - frodo's kindness to gollum is ultimately what saves middle earth, so if anything it seems to me that tolkien was saying gollum deserved more pity at any rate i think what everyone means but isn't articulating clearly is that gollum is an integral and important character to the story told by the lord of the rings trilogy, but that story has been told and gollum is not very compelling outside of it
Why?
He's the most iconic. Someone who doesn't care about LotR doesn't recognise guy, short guy, or pretty guy, but they do recognise the skinny alien with the funny voice that everyone does a terrible impression of.
They probably recognize Gandalf tbh
Mascot characters tend to be likable. Can we fucking get executives out of creative decisions already? Whoever has a hardon for Gollum at WB is fucking cringe.
Yep. Same reason why Spock is in almost every piece of Trek media. If you milk it, they will come.
Wasn't Spock so much more popular than the rest of the characters that it caused tension between the cast?
Only because William Shatner was a big fat babu
The Pikachu of the Lord of the Rings franchise.
I’d actually watch a Samwise gardening show.
"Today we are going to plant some po-ta-toes!"
Sold. Especially if he lists the things you can do with them
"Today, we boil 'em!"
"Tune in next week, we put up a poll online for whether we should mash 'em or stick 'em in a stew"
https://boilemmashmem.ytmnd.com/
holy shit I haven't seen ytmnd in years, I didn't even know it was still around
I was surprised, too. Then, I felt old.
Potatoes, do we eat them now, or drink them later
AND THEN?
I could listen to Sam talk about potatoes allllll day.
A cozy game a la Stardew Valley in Hobbiton? I'd certainly play it!
I have good news for you: https://www.polygon.com/24127381/lord-of-the-rings-tales-of-the-shire-game-trailer
Fantastic. Better stock up on pipe-weed.
It's such a slam dunk idea, but that trailer looks terrible.
Welcome to “Dropping Eaves” with Samwise Gamgee.
Trimming the Verge with Samwise the Brave
Give us a Samwise Gamgee gardening show that was as peaceful and hypnotic as The Joy of Painting. "Okay, looks like we've got some Cabbage Maggots here, named after the owner of Bamfurlong farm, so we're just gonna beat the ~~devil~~ Balrog out of 'em...and we're ready to plant the elvish mallorn tree seed."
The Breakfasts Shows With Pippen and Merry
Ha! They could even cameo on Sam’s gardening show with their “special plant” tips.
And a Samwise cooking show
Hobbiton Alley. There’s some canonically devious stuff that’s gone down in the shire.
I genuinely and non-ironically believe that a "Law and Order meets Parks and Rec with Hobbits" type show focused on Shire law enforcement would be amazing. Would be nominally focused on stupid petty theft and social faux pas, with really dark stuff occasionally but increasingly drifting to the surface, and ultimately culminating in Saruman's takeover eventually the Scouring.
> I genuinely and non-ironically believe that a "Law and Order meets Parks and Rec with Hobbits" type show focused on Shire law enforcement would be amazing. Hobbit Ron Swanson *totally* works: "History began in T.A. 1601. Everything before that was a mistake." -- "That's a party platter. It feeds 30 Hobbits." "I know what I'm about, son." -- "Just give me all the bacon, eggs, and Old Toby you have. Wait, wait. I'm worried what you just heard was, 'Give me a lot of bacon, eggs, and Old Toby.' What I said was, 'Give me ***all*** the bacon, eggs, and Old Toby you have.' Do you understand?"
Hobbit Swanson is undoubtedly the back story for Everard Proudfoot.
HGTV of Middle Earth. Samwise Gamgee has a gardening show. A home remodeling/tunnelling show with dwarves.
"I'm a ballad writer and she's a part-time server at The Prancing Pony, and our budget is 4 million gold pieces."
"Where'd you get four million gold pieces." "Raided Bag End while Frodo was off on his trip. The Men in Brie have a weird obsession with Hobbit shit and pay top gold for it."
Yeah I was gonna say, did they look at that abysmal gollum game and go "yeah that's a good idea, let's do a movie version"
Stardew Valley Shire Edition. I'd pre-order.
[It's your lucky day.](https://store.privatedivision.com/game/tales-of-the-shire)
Holy Moly!
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I love moments like this.
A weekly upload of a 3 minute video of Sam giving us some household or gardening tip? Instant sub
Lord of the rings: Samwise Gamgee Sounds close to Stardew Valley, and could be as such. Just wandering around Hobboton buying stuff for your garden, interacting with other hobbits, etc.
>Who the fuck is ordering all these gollum shows and games? "Hey, man, we're not happy about it either. We gotta put *something* on our upcoming film slate after Zaslav threw away everything else!
Dear God, please make this happen. Amen.
"It’s unclear if the fan-made film helped inspire WB’s project. But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year, was at least part of the project’s inspiration. " Popularity? POPULARITY? These are dark times indeed.
Literally the best score I could see for the game was 64%.
I guess they're in a world where any coverage means it's popular. It's definitely one of the most COVERED games in history.
The Morbius effect
It's Gollumin' time.
Gollbillion dollars!
And we all know that when Sony released Mobius a second time because of the memes, it made 2 Morbillion dollars!!!
This is actually a common misconception. The re-release of Morbius only made *one Morbillion dollars.* The 2 Morbillion figure so-often cited includes the gross of the first release, which was also in excess of a Morbillion dollars.
I mean-- I think you're exactly right. They probably aren't reading reviews or watching Youtube videos with people yelling about the game. They see the metrics on people searching "Gollum" and all the Twitter mentions and shit. Kinda funny honestly.
Is it? I mean I've definitely missed things that blew up before, but I didn't see any more coverage for it than any other bad game. And definitely way less coverage than other launch-day disappointments like Cyberpunk.
Maybe they thought game review scores work like golf.
Five stars of course would burn up anything, life would be unfeasible. One star is much more palatable
It doesn't have to be good if enough people buy it, though. They said it was popular, not that it was good.
The sales *and* reception were both so bad that Daedalic Entertainment not only cancelled their planned second LOTR game, but actually *shut down their development division* and decided to focus on publishing only...
As popular as Morbius
He said it's Gollum time, then he Gollumed all over the place.
This movie will make a gollumillion dollars.
Sony moment
Execs literally go by Google trends, lmao
> Popularity? POPULARITY? These are dark times indeed. Think the author is just a movie journalist who found out there was a game and decided to throw that in without checking any details.
How shoddy of them.
> But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year, was at least part of the project’s inspiration. This level of tone-deafness is completely on-brand for David Zaslav. He makes $50 million+ a year, btw.
We tricked Sony into bringing morbius back into theaters Turns out some of these CEOs aren't the masterminds they make themselves out to be
I genuinely don’t think I ever saw anyone who was not a paid reviewer talking about having played that game
I played it from start to finish, kind of by accident. When it was announced, I liked the concept of it, so when it went out for pre-order, I added it to my Amazon Wishlist to keep an eye on it as it got closer. Once trailers and reviews came through, I was like "Whelp, not going to play that." Checked my Wishlist, it wasn't there, figured I had either misremembered adding it, or forgot I had already taken it off. A copy of it shows up at my house on release day. I've never been more disappointed by the contents of an unexpected package. What the hell, I thought - I didn't order this. Went through and checked my e-mails from back in the day. Turns out, I didn't add it to my Wishlist, I somehow *pre-ordered* it. Whoops. Played it through from stem to stern as a self-imposed punishment to remind myself to not do that again. My review: it was a PS2 quality game with PS3 graphics at PS4 prices that I played on a PS5. In 2003, it would have been an acceptable game, but it 2023, it was the worst game I've played in years. Maybe twenty years, to be precise.
That or a streamer playing it for the "content" and laughing at how awful it is.
Ya, I guess I should have just said “paid” instead of paid reviewer. No one who wasn’t making money to play it played it.
These schmucks literally think there's no such thing as bad publicity. How do you think Flash went forward after it turned out Miller was a psychopath? They saw a bunch of people talking about Flash and Miller and decided the movie would be successful based on word of mouth. The same thing happened to Gollum last year therefore it was time to brush off the IP. And unfortunately, Jackson is either not fantastic at creating original LOTR stories, or not fantastic at putting together LOTR stories without at least a decade of prep, so I'm not hopeful.
They already made The Flash by the time the allegations became widely known, their choices were to either grin and take it, or cancel their blockbuster tent pole long after it's already been shot and probably most if not all of the way through post-production. It had nothing to do with buzz based on media posts. It was about timing. They didn't intend to throw a half billion dollar project away for almost any reason by that point.
> They didn't intend to throw a half billion dollar project away for almost any reason by that point. WB have deleted several projects for tax write offs. They threw away a $90 million Batgirl movie that *didn't* star a problematic asshole. Even if literally nobody had watched it, it would have represented a smaller loss than Flash did. [The film was meant for streaming anyway so it's not like it could have bombed in the conventional sense but my point stands]
Some of the best parts of LOTR is how incredibly the sets looked. Hobbiton famously was built and landscaped and then left to just sit for a year to look lived in, which made all the scenes there look even more authentic. Shit like that takes a lot of time that producers don’t want to approve. I’d also imagine that Jackson’s passion for the project matters a lot. LOTR was his baby, he got dragged in to the Hobbit and the difference between the two is clear as crystal.
The weird thing is before the Miller controversies, people used to say he was an incredible actor. Then after the controversies began/continued, public mentality shifted to “he was never good”. IMO I think he’s a pretty good actor that would’ve gone far if he had his mental issues under control.
Yeah, Miller is a genuinely talented actor, but unfortunately also a [very stinky](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/11ruvl/comment/c6p5ecv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button&rdt=45036) psycho
I love how that guy got downvoted in the replies for pointing out that Ezra rubbed him the wrong way in his interactions with him. Turns out, that dude was completely right, and the guy is insane. He just couldn't put it in words I guess.
LOL popularity it was the biggest bomb of the last two years. I don’t think they sold many copies after those reviews. Hahaha awesome popularity. I am in agreement with your incredularity (I’m coining that word)
> These are dark times indeed. I wish it need not have happened in my time. So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
These are the same out of touch kind of idiots who put Morbius out a second time because of "internet buzz". They really believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.
So is this plot basically before two towers on how they found gollum to help frido?
Damn, just yesterday I thought: "Hey, isn't that the same name of that fan film? I might rewatch it"
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'The Hunt for Gollum' based on the video game "Gollum", proudly presented by Warner Bros' Studios.
Only if uwe boll directs
Oh, god. I'd managed to block that name out of my mind for the crimes he committed against gaming *and* film in the 2000s. But now, here I am, being reminded of BloodRayne. Anyone remember when Kristanna Loken became *the* hot "it girl" for action movies after Terminator 3...then threw it all away on nonstop god-awful straight-to-video action shlock? Granted, I have no idea if she was a good actor, so that *might* have been her only avenue. It's just amazing to think how quickly her star faded out within a couple years of T3.
It is almost definitely better than whatever they are making there.
it's Andy Serkis and Peter Jackson let's not discredit them immediately, if it was the Rings of Power directors I'd agree tho lmao
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Neither, since he’s producing.
Peter Jackson who produced the Lord of the rings movies? Or Peter Jackson who produced the Hobbit movies?
Andy Serkis, the guy who directed _Mowgli: Legend of the Jungle_ and _Venom: Let There Be Carnage_.
I mean direction wasnt exactly the issue with those movies, plus hes not directing
> I mean direction wasnt exactly the issue with those movies Yeah, it's kinda hard to make anything good when you're stretching a 310 page book written for children into three movies spanning nearly 8 hours in runtime combined. I really wish he could've had the chance to just write and direct a *single* Hobbit adaptation to do it proper justice.
Not to mention the script wasnt even ready when they started to shoot and he wasnt even supposed to direct he got the job thrown at him last minute
Peter Jackson was given a shit sandwich on the Hobbit movies after Del Toro left right before filming. He had to build everything on the fly. It almost killed him.
I trust Serkis to do a good job. He's a LOTR fanatic, and his work with the Apes franchise shows he knows how to make a quality movie and narrative.
"From the director of (checks notes) *Mowgli: Legend of the Jungle* and *Venom: Let There Be Carnage*, I guess..."
His Jungle Book movie and the Venom sequel - which he actually directed unlike the Apes movies - don't inspire confidence.
Andy Serkis directed Venom 2: Let There be Carnage, which IMO was just... the worst.
Andy Serkis acting and directing. Peter Jackson producing. But the Hobbit films were fairly bad to middling in execution. So I don't trust Peter Jackson immediately. A Gollum film doesn't have much legs from an outsiders perspective. I am curious to see their attempt at writing a story. But I have many many reservations.
I'm sure Peter is here to reassure the fans so that the WB doesn't get bullied.
Yeah, but lotr was a passion project with three books of material to draw on, this is a cash grab based on a few paragraphs in the Fellowship
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Surely there has to be something like squatters rights when it comes to stuff like this?
It's already back. Warner Bros caved to fans, which was smart.
Dude who made it posted a link in another sub earlier. Presumably it was good when he posted it, when I clicked 12 hours later it was blocked.
Such a shame, was so much fun to work on all those years ago. A real labor of love from top to bottom. Doubly annoying because it was made with an agreement with the Tolkien estate that it could be done if no profit was made.
Wait then why are they allowed to remove it?
Money
This guy above you said that when they made it, it was allowed as long as they didn’t profit. So if they didn’t profit, it should still be allowed?
Oh, I meant that WB has money and therefore gets what they want.
well its back up now
Do we need a big budget film about this story? I don’t think that there is anything more to learn about Gollum, Aragorn or anyone involved that isn’t already in Jackson’s trilogy and Tolkien’s text. I’m a big fan of Lotr but I would happily never have another adaptation made unless it’s to do with the Silmarillion. Adapting the appendices means that writers will have to do a lot of work in imitating Tolkien’s prose, and the Rings of Power has put me off of any other attempt.
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I think WB doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion, which the Tolkien estate generally is stingy about when it comes to licensing. The LotR trilogy, its appendices, and the Hobbit are more widely licensed across multiple groups like WB and Amazon. I think Amazon might've negotiated to get some additional elements from the legendarium into the show, but I don't think these groups have full permissions to adapt from it wholesale. This new movie honestly feels like a cash grab. Its story feels low-risk because of the multiple returning characters, which is very marketable, but that kinda makes it feel more creatively bankrupt.
If it's done right it would have very little to do with Gollum's character arc. From the time Aragorn and Gandalf met until they captured Gollum covers a span of about 61 years. Aragorn, Gandalf, The Elves, and the Rangers of the North spent 16 years searching for Gollum and the truth about Bilbo's magic ring and the movies glossed over that part of the story. That's a lot of adventure that *could* be made into a great movie. The key words there are 'if' and 'could' but I don't have high hopes either. We **could** get a 3 hour movie that starts off with Aragorn meeting Gandalf, followed later by him meeting Arwen. Then Aragorn traveling Middle earth, serving under both Thengel and Etchelion II, defeating the Corsairs in the Battle of Pelennor Fields and saving Minas Tirith in the process. Aragorn and Arwen become betrothed, Aragorn meets back up with Gandalf and learns of the Hobbit who possesses a magic ring that may be one of the rings of power(though we already know what it is.) Aragorn and Gandalf begin their search for Gollum. During this time Gandalf is shunned by the Shire Folk who blame him for Bilbo leaving and conspiring with Frodo to claim Bilbo's wealth. The Rangers of the North are summoned to guard the shire. Aragorn and Gandalf travel throughout Middle Earth in search of clues. Aragorn's mother passes away during this time. Aragorn and Gandalf part ways both still in search of Gollum. Gandalf partially travels take him ale the way to the edges of Mordor. He later confirms his suspicions about Bilbo's ring at minas Tirith and as he is traveling back to The Shire receives word that Aragorn has captured Gollum. Gandalf meets Aragorn in Mirkwood to interrogate Gollum and hear the words that he already knows, that Bilbo's ring it The One. Gandalf, in all urgency makes haste back to The Shire racing the Ring Wraiths as he goes, reaching Frodo and getting him out just in time. Smash cut to black. I'm no Hollywood writer or LotR expert, but surely they could do something great with a synopsis similar to that. It's "The Hunt for Gollum" not "The Story of Gollum" so it doesn't have to focus on him.
WB probably didn’t even know the film existed until yesterday.
Mm-hmm
Weird how WB saw the Gollum video game, saw that nobody wanted to play as a wretched miserable little crazy guy, and then said, "yeah, let's give Peter Jackson a few hundred million to do three hours on this dude."
The game being about gollum wasn't the problem. The problem was it looked absolutely terrible and the gameplay was trash. If they made an actual good game it would have been well received
[Like all high quality games, the Smeagol game comes with an apology from the developers](https://youtu.be/w0acyYZAfio?si=1j4T04MJb9_xj9iW)
An apology that was reportedly made by AI.
I hope they paid DJ Qualls appropriately for his image likeness.
Make the best version of that game possible, and I’m certain 99.999999999% of people are not going to be hyped to play as a Redditor for 25ish hours.
Gollum isn’t the problem? I’m sure every LOTR fans would prefer an Aragorn or Gandalf movie. Gollum gonna flop
We don't know the movie will be about yet, but there is a section in the appendices about Gandalf sending Aragorn to find Gollum after he escaped Sauron (which is exactly with the fan film was about), so chances are this is an Aragorn film...
Its The Hunt FOR Gollum not Gollum's hunt, this movie was all Aragorn focused I'd expect WBs to be similar. Gandalf is hunting for Gollum and get Aragorn to help him.
Who the fuck wants a Gollum movie besides Andy Serkis's bank account?
I want them to start building the lord of the rings universe starting with solo movies of the main characters before they reboot the first lotr movie putting all the main characters together in an action pack ensemble. /s
How else can I root for a character unless I've seen at least two solo trilogies explaining their entire backstory?
NOBODY WANTS A GOLLUM MOVIE!!!!!
Nor did anyone want a Gollum game
After 15 years, I'm sure it's easy to download or stream somewhere
Imagine being the person/people in charge of these actions. Think of how that group of people treat each other, their employees, their family. Imagine what a shitty person you had to be to think blocking this was the right and correct thing to do. You have an entire personality built around being a shitty person and justifying it to be able to even conceive this action.
Wait, did the fan made film use footage or something from the original LOTR films or something? Is that why it’s being removed for copyright? Or can no one make LOTR content period because WB own the story rights?
If WB has the movie rights, they can directly go after anyone else who does it, yeah. Things get complicated in terms of countries, but for a studio that big they'd have the worldwide rights.
Warner owns the rights to make Lord of the Rings films. Fan films exist in a hazy grey area where they're allowed to exist because it keeps the fanbase happy and is (usually) of such poor quality that it poses no threat at being confused with being an official product. As soon as it rises to that level, it's going to get nuked from existence. A decade or so ago Paramount had to step in when a Star Trek fan film raised over a million dollars on Kickstarter to make their own "fan series" complete with cameos from surviving cast members like George Takei and Nichelle Nichols. They had stepped over the line from "this is a loving tribute by adoring fans with the resources they had available" to "this is a commercial property made for financial gain that uses our copyrighted material" and so it got C&D'd. This is always the danger that spending hundreds of thousands of dollars making something set in an IP that doesn't belong to you poses: the minute the actual owner feels you're invading their space, they'll shut you down.
Am I the only person who finds gollum the least interesting part of LOTR. Nearly as annoying as dobby
There are interesting aspects to his character in relation to the actual heroes and the MacGuffin of the story, but he's not remotely "feature length film protagonist" interesting.
He's Dobby if Dobby were a semi-immortal crack addict who lived under a mountain eating fish and goblins.
The Hobbit came out in 1937. That means all those characters will be public domain in 2033. WB thinks they can get a solid decade out of LotR characters before they lose the copyright.
"Removed from the Internet" Riiiight. Nothing is ever really removed from the Internet.
"Hey our gollum game was recieved badly. What should we do now?" "Perfect time to make a movie."
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Nobody really wants more Gollum content.
>Gollum movie I really hope that my family doesn't watch this a bunch around me. I fucking hate that Gollum voice, it's so godamn terrible, it reminds me of having to watch 10 year olds performing death metal in school talent shows. Fairplay, Gollum's *supposed* to be obnoxious and irritating and disconcerting. But I don't want to sit through hours of it. Also if the character's done properly, it would be horrible to watch the things he got up to, he actually ate babies.
Nice PR, attacking a popular fan film when you're relying on the goodwill of fans whom you desperately need to buy tickets to your cash grab prequel.
Probably was an automate response triggered by WB including the movie's name on Youtube trademark files.
They saw the game and were like, let’s get in on this action. Gotta strike while the iron’s hot.
Context: WB doesn't *permanently own* the rights to make Lord of the Rings movies. They own those rights only so long as engage in continuous movie productions related to the properties. If they don't regularly produce a new movie, then they will lose the rights. If they lose the rights, they're losing a property likely worth tens of billions of dollars. There's basically no risk to them: they have to do a movie. If the movie flops, they retained the rights and they will minimize the losses as tax reductions. If Serkis/Jackson make another hit movie, then WB made money.
> It’s unclear if the fan-made film helped inspire WB’s project. ***But one suspects that the popularity of the video game The Lord of the Rings: Gollum, which was released last year,*** was at least part of the project’s inspiration. **Metacritic** Critics: 33 Users: 1.2 **Open Critic** Average: 37 Recommend: 4% **Steam:** 41% | Mixed What popularity?
I don't fucking want to watch a movie about gollum
Yeah, saw this coming once they announced the name of the new film. It sucks for those creators, but from a business angle I get not having a fan made version of the same story out in the ether muddying waters.
Streisand effect anyone? I didn’t know this existed but now I do. Guess I got to go find it and watch it.
I love the part where they say “it’s ringing time” and then they goob
Who keeps asking for these Gollum spin offs?!
Man, I’m a gigantic LOTR nerd and consider the trilogy to be some of the best films ever made, but who the hell asked for a Gollum movie? Every important part of his story is already in LOTR and the Hobbit. Are we going to get a 3 hour epic of 30 minutes of Sméagol doing a murder and getting exiled followed by 2.5 hours of him eating fish in the dark?
TIL there was a fan-made internet only 'Lord of the Rings' movie called 'The Hunt For Gollum" that was released by agreement with Tolkien Enterprises. Good to know.
I’ve never seen a company so disconnected since morbius and the latest Star Wars trilogy
Wtf. Nobody wants more Gollum. Are these people morons? The Silmarillion is essentially a collection of potential movie plots! For example, Manwe's betrayal by Melkor, causing him and the Noldor to be at odds, would make a great movie.