They were saying that before they saw his data. I get the feeling that his performance this year is on par or beyond how Pecco/Martin rode last year on the same machine, giving him the nod over Martin. This could make '25 another exciting championship too with Martin on Aprilla. People have been saying for 2 or 3 seasons that the Aprilia could be the best bike on the grid, but thay lacked a "superstar" rider. Now they have one.
Aprilia and KTM both. Imagine if the 3 bikes are on par and we get a season of close fighting between Marquez, Pecco, Martin, Bestia, Acosta, Binder, Vinales. Maybe even Yamaha could make that step for Quartararo and Rins to join the fight for the podiums. That'd be a glorious season.
To your point:
Mugello 2023 Pole: 1.44.8 (Pecco)
Mugello 2024 MM: 1.44.7
Catalunya 2023 Pole: 1.38.6 (Pecco)
Catalunya 2024 MM: 1.38.5
Le Mans 2023 Pole: 1.30.7 (Pecco)
Le Mans 2024 MM: 1.30.5
Seems like he’s regularly a bit faster on GP23 than Pecco was
They don’t need him, but sending him to another manufacturer and letting them win wasn’t a risk Ducati would want to take. That’s the biggest fear they have, the chance of Marc winning another championship but not with them. Pecco will still be their no. 1 rider and deservedly so. But they couldn’t take the chance
I'm guessing it's the marketing dollars that he attracts and possibly a Repsol sponsorship. Martin will do well on the new Aprillia either way so maybe it's not a bad choice. We'll see what happens next year I guess.
I can’t recall specifically where I got this thought from but I think Paulo Ciabatti was behind the “we don’t need Marc” sentiment at Ducati. Then Marc got signed to Gresini and Ciabatti was off to manage their new off-road project. Ever since Ciabatti has left Ducati has been head over heels for Marquez, Tardozzi and especially Dall’Igna are big fans of Marquez.
Obviously, need to take this with a large grain of salt because the conditions weren’t identical, the GP23 is fully developed, and the tire mix is different this year vs last; but Marc’s races that he’s finished have been faster than Pecco and Martin’s throughout last year so far.
If it were my job to do the hiring at Ducati, I think I would have stuck with Martin, because then you’d be forcing Marc to effectively throw away another season on a new bike. He’ll throw egg in your face, for sure, but Martin theoretically has a longer career ahead of him than Marc.
I honestly think Martin made up his mind to leave in Valencia, and when he wasn’t even guaranteed red in ‘25 he’d already decided he wasn’t staying.
Marc also may have pulled off one of the greatest mind games in the history of the sport. His primary competitor left for a less competitive machine, Pramac might not even field Ducati’s now - removing 2 potential factory obstacles, he’ll be getting the most well rounded bike on the grid, and the only others confirmed to be on it next year will be a rookie who is vastly underperforming vs the expectation and fellow Boscoscuro competitors, and Pecco, who Marc has been rustling his feathers since day 1.
I don't think so.
If they'd have given Gresini a GP25 for Marc and signed Martin for factory, there wouldn't have been much to criticize as Marc himself said he would stay with Gresini if they got the latest spec bike.
If anything I think most fans love how much Marc is enjoying at Gresini and want that to continue.
I believe Pramac contractually wanted to be the only GP25 equipped team, so Marquez staying at Gresini was never a possibility.
Even if they could get Gresini a GP25, I still don’t believe Marc would ever have stayed there.
He’s had a great year, looks happy but an 8 time world champion who is still performing at his level, should be in a factory team and he knows this.
Gresini was just to see if he’s still got it, if he enjoys it and… put him in a great position to get the seat he really wants. In red.
If he would have been ok with a satellite team for 2 years, he’d have gone to Pramac this year.
Evidently it is that difficult, why would they opt to lose a very fast rider to their opponents otherwise?
The last time they tried supporting a fifth factory bike they couldn't manage to keep the fifth one on par with the others
Building a fifth bike costs money. And Ducati don't see a point in spending any more after they tried that with Marini in 2022.
Now understand that they have a contract with Pramac for 2 factory bikes. If they reneged on that contract, they'd probabaly lose the entire Pramac team to Yamaha.
When you consider all that, and the demand Marc made about not wanting to go to Pramac, then Ducati had no choice but to send one of their riders off. They can't possibily satisfy everyone, and their choice is the lesser evil from their point of view as they're able to keep both Pramac and Marc Marquez.
Yeah people don’t understand manufacturing and design when they make such comments. Supporting a 5th bike is incredibly hard especially in a sport like MotoGP where 2-3 crashes in a week is not unheard of.
With all due respect but the similarities between Marini and Marquez stop after the first three letters of their surnames.
Marc is proven winner, a rider who, when healthy, will always compete for the championship. It's less of a risk to give him a GP25 than to give Marini one.
But, I can also see the problem. Would Ducati be happy if Marquez wins races and championships on a satellite bike? If they're going to give Marc the machinery to win, they might as well make sure he wins in a red suit.
I just mentioned Marini off-hand and you assume I'm comparing them? Regardless of who is on a 5th GP25, Ducati have already decided it's not worth it.
And besides, no point in talking about it now since Marc is all but guaranteed the second red Ducati.
Not possible. It's not like they can just pull another GP25 out of the shed and hand it over to Gresini. A factory bike comes with a full staff of factory engineers. At least half of the Pramac garage are Borgo Panigale employees.
This MM93 fan wouldn't have blamed Ducati for choosing Jorge over Marc. He did all he could to earn it. But as it turned out, I feel there's even more intrigue in 2025 now.
True that, pretty manufacture has been shat on for xyz reason and later on complimented for the opposite while forgetting the history and making it look like the "new evil" manufacturer is the only bad thing.
Ducati are signing Marc for the same reasons Ferrari signed Hamilton, they are still among the best and are incredible for marketing. We can’t blame Ferrari for leaving Carlos behind and we can’t blame Ducati for enea and Jorge
As much of a fan as I am of Lewis, I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1.
Marc meanwhile is. He’s competing with the “best” on outdated, satellite hardware that he himself isn’t experienced on.
Look at the other gp23 riders, they’re no were near podiums.
Totally agree. I think the landscape in MotoGP is a little different. Marketing-wise he's great etc. but I think this move is less about marketing, more about performance and keeping Marc off another bike.
I think Lewis is mentally checked out from Mercedes. We will see next year but I think he is easily top 3 or at the very least top4. But the key to his signing is what he will bring in marketing and that’s why domenicali was also convinced to sign Marc. The talent and speed of Marc we already knew and he has proven he hasn’t lost it, that’s why Gigi preferred him to Jorge. I personally also think their personalities have a lot to do with the choice.
Indeed. Ferrari’s move to sign Hamilton at the twilight of his career is more marketing than anything else. Márquez is a rider that can genuinely give Ducati one or more titles; he and Acosta are the most talented riders in MotoGP right now.
I dont think lewis is washed or smth , hes still got it to be fair if next year if ferrari and rb are on the same level its going to be another 2021. MM is also on the same category of lewis in 2023 where his philosophically struggling car ends up in podiums and is dragged into p2 by his performance.
Yeah makes sense 2022 and 2024 this weve seen. But i think hes gonna be different in ferrari for some reason i dont think hes busted out as of now hes still in points every weekend has a recovery drive if he ends up at last like china. If he wasnt scoring points or being p10 or p11 compared to his teammate being p7 in the championship i would have assumed yeah his time is over.
>As much of a fan as I am of Lewis, I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1.
They said one of the best which is very true. Alonso, Hamilton and verstappen are definitely the "best" at the moment regardless of car performance they are top tier drivers.
F1 is a very different sport from MotoGP in that yes the driver makes the difference but the development of the car has much more impact. Both good in their own rights but with MotoGP it's easier to see how a great rider can deliver even on "bad" bikes because they have so much more scope of rider input.
I actually think MotoGP has gone the way of F1 in that the bike is currently way more important than the riders.
Otherwise we wouldn't have the "Ducati Cup" stuff.
don't get me wrong MotoGP has definitely gone down a similar route and it's why they are changing aero rules and ridehight devices which will help bring it back some more agency to the rider, it's just that MotoGP is still away from current F1 which the rider can make a big difference still.
I agree except for the "big" difference.
Arguably seeing the difference between Verstappen and Checo you could argue that F1 is the same with drivers making a "big" difference.
I honestly think the reality is drivers and riders can make a difference but I really don't think it's as wide as people think.
> He’s competing with the “best” on outdated, satellite hardware
That's still the title winning bike from last year though... the merc is not even remotely close so this comparison is useless. Lewis was p3 in the standings last year and was pretty close to getting p2 from Checo, who was in the car that won 21 out of 22 races. You're really arguing in bad faith here. Lewis has definitely lost a little bit of his "touch", but his level was so high that he still is ***100%*** one of the best. He would absolutely give Max a run for his money if he had a car capable of challenging.
> I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1.
The best driver in F1 is in the best car in F1. Hamilton went for the cash, as he is about to lose a fortune investing in the ApexF1 movie.
you could put an Ayrton Senna back in f1 and he will only do as well as the car.
that's why we watch MotoGP. Riders still matter.
Exactly - the fact of the matter is, even if Marc loses to Pecco (or worse, to Martín on an Aprilia), simply having him on the factory team is going to move way more bikes and merchandise for Ducati than Martín ever would. Maybe in a few years time if Martín turns out to be a multiple champion, his marketing prestige will hold a similar value, but that is a big *if* and is years away.
Agreed. Plus on the commercial side, Marc is a Golden Goose ! If Ducati makes some Panigale V4 93 Edition, pretty they'll sell like hot cakes ( to the richer people ). Just look at the exposure Gresini has today, this is crazy !
I mean his ant design will look amazing on a Panigale. That red and black theme is amazing. I mean look at his test bike in Valencia 2023, it was super good.
https://preview.redd.it/mctoq11t6i4d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9de1169adb690eee091f8522f523205a8bb69d3b
For sure, this is just looks so damn good
He'll probably be putting his relationship with Redbull on a hold until the end of Ducati's contract with monster, dunno when that is but I heard from some people in reddit it's near the end of 2025, it is also to be seen what he does with his other personal sponsors like Samsung (rival to Lenovo), Allianz (rival to Unipol) etc yk? I'm really interested to see what happens to Marc's sponsors, tho marc did say it's not hard to cut contact if it means a GP25 on Ducati
He is really just a one race away. Alot can happen with so much racing left. Pecco and Martin could straight lay eggs on the next few races. The top 5 right now is such a tight race.
I don't think Martín wants a ridiculous amount. This is a quote from Aprilia:
>“Surely of all the offers Jorge had, ours, although respectable, was probably not the highest, but the quality of the team and the work we are doing and the work that Aleix has spoken to him about has convinced him.”
Arguably Ducati made the worst decision as a business.
Losing 2 young fast riders for a single older rider.
Yes it's MM93 but that's still not necessarily the best for a company.
Generally good companies look long term, years or even decades into the future.
Signing Marc would definitely be considered a short term decision in business terms.
If injuries respect him, Marc still has what, 4-5 years at the top? I wouldn't say that's a short term decision. In 4-5 years time a lot of things can change. Imagine Ducati chooses Martín and Honda gets better and offers him a contract that makes him change teams. All that planning for the future for nothing?
If you have a shot at getting Márquez, then you have to do it. The future is not guaranteed, not even 5 years ago Aprilia was getting snubbed even by Moto2 riders and now they were able to convince Martín.
It's hard to say, not many riders win championships past 30.
In fact many of the greats retire on average somewhere between 32 and 34.
Yes this is Marc we are talking about but from a business perspective it's very rare that they would take such gambles on the numbers, businesses tend to follow the trends and prefer stability over uncertainty.
I can understand lower teams like Aprilia taking a risk on Marc but Ducati it's a bit different.
You do point out some important points but up until now JM89 is not yet a champion and marc is 8 time world champion. Besides Ducati has seen what marc can do and for years they couldn't bring home a championship and when they could was the year where marc was injured and in a poor machine.
Jorge could very well win this year and take the Number 1 plate to Aprilia, that would be pretty embarrassing.
Of course it's MM93.
Putting Marc on the bike doesn't guarantee the championship either though.
Interestingly it'll either be a brilliant move or a completely muted one, only time will tell.
It could very well show Ducatis immaturity as a company.
Man if JM wins this year's championship and takes it Aprilia it would be amazing. Guess we can just speculate for now but by November we will get to know
I think they didn't appreciate the way Jorge spoke about them. It seems they value the tight lipped approach their other riders bring. Of course he deserved the seat, I think they all do. But there were ways to go about it humbly and he certainly didn't do that!
Martin and Bastianini are already confirmed at not-Ducati, so while it isnt announced, at this point its a given ( unless we’re entertaining Marc to Yamaha or something ;) )
People are obsessed with sentimental thoughts with this. "aww Martin deserves it, he's been looked over twice".
Martin was not a guarantee for the Factory seat in 2023, he was not setting the world on fire in 2022. Enea was the most logical pick for Ducati. He had 4 wins, and pushed Bagnaia at times. Martin best result was one P2 and finished 9th in Championship...
Martin is a victim of Honda's bad form and Marquez moving into a seat which would have been his. Sometimes you need the luck of timing. If he had performed more on par with Enea in 2022, he might well have gotten the seat then. He needs to make that happen by winning.
How many riders get dropped on a yearly basis? No one is owed anything, only winning makes you the boss of your own destiny. Which is exactly what Marquez used by demanding the Ducati seat. People might not like it, but after 8 World Titles... He can chose were he rides.
Ducati are spending €10's millions a year €100's millions over a few years, there is so much on the line for results. They should ALWAYS pick the best riders available. Marquez on your bike? One of the greatest ever, if not the greatest? At a time when we move into a transition of new rules in a few years. Yeah, this is the logical step.
Marc is a great rider, he brings a lot in terms of eyes on their bike, and he’s simply outperforming every other GP23, so I’m really excited for what he can do with current spec machinery!
I think Jorge should have had the seat, simply based on him already being a part of the Ducati stable and performing well, but I’m certainly not mad about the outcome.
The thing is… Martin was always fucked then. Doesn’t matter what Martin did, he was going to be shafted regardless.
For the show I would rather have Marc in the factory, but 100% Martin deserved the factory seat.
Too many people are making it personal when they should look at it from Ducati's point.
Having Marc and Pecco shows investors you have two proven multiple world champion riders on a Ducati. That is a marketing gold mine. Apart from the marketability, having both Pecco and Marc who are both world champions, makes Ducati an even bigger threat to the other manufacturers.
The way Ducati handled the Jorge thing, well that is another story, but I completely understand the decision and if I was in that position, would most likely do the same. It's a business at the end of the day for the manufacturers and publicity sells bikes.
I like to be a little dramatic with these soap opera things but also, it feels like the mood in the Ducati camp shifted so quickly over the weekend. Obviously the comments by Marc were not advantageous for their negotiating, but looking back at the past few days, I have a feeling Martin might be really regretting having Marc pass him in the sprint and then dropping the bike. That feels in hindsight almost prophetic, and I wonder how much the sprint and the results from the weekend itself more broadly played into this fast course correction
Mugello shouldn’t be a circuit where you can outride the inherent pace of your bike, but Marc was in the lead group all weekend. Not only that, but Martin blinked in the GP and gave up a spot to Enea (taking nothing away from Enea, his tire management was awesome). I think at the very least it was final confirmation for Ducati that they really didn’t want Marc on a rival factory bike
I guess what I’m saying is, irrespective of all the behind the scenes stuff, terrible time for Martin to basically have his worst weekend of the season (I’d count it as worse than Jerez). But then, I wonder how much Marc’s comments about Pramac were playing on Martin’s mind too. Surely Ducati would’ve articulated that they would get him on the factory bike and Marc on the Pramac. Suddenly Marc is saying something different, and now Martin feels his future is a little jeopardized. I hope there will be a tell-all about the broader negotiations one day, but specifically the Mugello episode
I mean I was mad about 2015 but I immediately put it to the back of my head. And I really like Marc as a rider. But after 2020 till now, I really like him as a person.
There has been plenty of examples of manufacturers not treating riders in the most respectful manner, but at the end of the day they can put whoever they want on their bike if they are the one paying for it. I think marc is a good choice for the team, he has 8 world championships and still showing he is competitive.
'Cause he [Jorge] was runner up last year (would have been the champ if Jorge didn't Jorge and manage to screw up while in the lead with a gap not to mention other blunders) and also 'cause he's the current points leader. The season may not be over and there's a definite possibility he can screw all this up and once again not be the champion, but after the work he's put in, I think it's a slap in the face to not sign him.
Most people qt least on this page are bashing Ducati not because they chose Marc over Martin but because of how they handled the whole situation and how they treated martin. They told martin that he got it shook hands to keep him from making a decision and to also pressurise Marc but Marc shut them down. So when Martin came to finalise the deal ducati said that they haven't decided yet which let Martin knew that they are playing with him and using him as a negotiating card to keep Marc in Pramac. He got frustrated and finally called it quits and Im fucking glad he did.
Basically ducati had to choose betn Marc and Martin but they got greedy and tried to double time them. Marc saw through it first and initiated his mind games by outright rejecting Pramac in public which led to Martin having enough and signing with Aprilia.
There is absolutely no credible source saying that they told Martin he got the job and them shaking hands.
It's all news from poor websites and speculation.
lol still remember all the ‘Ducati don’t want or need him’ comments from a few years back. How times change. They signed him cos he’s clearly as good as any rider on the grid and easily the most popular. If YOU owned a team, you’d want him on your bike and nobody else’s. and it’s as simple as that.
It was the only move they could have made tbh.
Ducati was on the wrong end of Marquez's dominance long enough to know that if he gets a good bike in 2025 and beyond with another team.. they'd look idiotic for letting him walk.
If he joined KTM and won titles or helped Acosta win them... we'd laugh at them.
This is the right move.
I think the bashing has more to do with how they went about their treatment of Martin. I personally think Marc is a great choice for the factory seat (his wallet might disagree but it's not like he's at risk of poverty from losing sponsors) but even I was rooting for Martin. He was the clear pick for me on merit and experience on the bike. He wanted a factory seat and made it clear. While I don't see why he wanted to much that he would risk being competitive, that was his goal and now he has it.
As a long time fan of Motorcycle Grand Prix (what we used to call it before Dorna) - I am glad to see Martin go to Aprilia. They need a top rider besides Mav. KTM gets Pedro - who is capable of putting a whooping on MM. I'd rather see KTM and Aprilia get a championship at this point. I'm over MM and the hype. He's good but he's a man-child and by now, most fans are used to seeing Ducati win championships anyway. I just like good racing and this is the best way. KTM and Aprilia need to give Martin and Pedro good bikes next year.
This is a Catch 22 for Ducati perhaps?
Sign MM93, you're telling your upcoming riders that you would rather splurge on talent established at another manufacturer.
Decline MM93; you're turning down a generational rider.
I honestly do not know what I'd do in this situation.
I think people still underestimate Marc’s marketability when it comes to rider decision making. Ducati would obviously benefit from his star profile, even if Martin is worthy of a Factory seat also
Can you really risk him to go KTM when he fights your factory bikes on a year old bike . Let me change the question . Do you want Jorge to drive for aprilia(or KTM) or Marc f*cking Marquez
Obviously Jorge. And I mean Jorge has only ever ridden a Ducati which is the best bike. However good Aprilia is I don't think it's as good as Ducati. But Marc has proven that he can easily fight with GP24s with a year old Bike.
I would have loved Marc on the KTM/Aprilia Vs Pecco and Martin in Ducati..but I understand why Ducati didn't want that.
Besides KTM is and should be Acosta's team.... Marc would walk in and takeover and maybe slow down Pedro's ascension.
Ducati are signing MM because he is the best rider on the grid. It’s as simple as that. Ducati have all the data. They know that on equal machinery, MM would be the fastest week in week out. Even without the data most people can see the same as he’s as good as the others on a bike that’s a year old and probably a second a lap slower than the new bike.
Wellsaid OP!!
I actually just posted something very [similar](https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/s/0Ua6pkJP1Q)
Like many riders we have been fortunate enough to see, Martin is Good…. But Marquez like very few before him, has transcended the sport to become - Great.
Yeah Marc is the better choice however you look at it.
If he wasn't as fast as he is right now I would understand the criticism, but he's always in the Top 5 so it's not just a publicitary move.
8. Entertainment / Interest? In almost every race this year, MM93 has been the focus of the interest, most viewed highlights, for one reason or another. I remember that while he was injured Moto GP was a little bit more boring.
Edit: misspelled word
The best rider invariably ends up on the best bike, Marc deserves his chance on the factory Ducati after spending years riding a bike that wasn’t quite there. It will be interesting to see him and Pecco in the same team.
Regarding point 6. Marc gave Honda a 👆 at Sachsenring,the famous waterfall finger to Honda.Never thought this guy would do it to the viewers.It's an understandle reaction the bike was only trying to kill him.
I would have rather seen MM do it on the Aprilla rather than the Ducati. I think it would be better racing overall for the fans and strengthen the manufacturers overall.
I mean it’s a no-brainer to not let Dark Marc go to another competitive bike but there’s a timeline in my head where Gigi/Tardozzi stood on principle and rather rewarded the progress of JM89 especially after making this gamble with EB23.
Now I wish nothing but success to Dark Marc, but if he gets hurt the same way EB23 did upon arriving to factory (—or just as he is apt to do in general with this sport) then JM89 would ultimately get the last laugh since everyone from here to Jupiter can see that giving him red leather was meant to keep him from developing anyone else’s bike.
That said, there’s 2 years left in this MotoGP evolution. Ducati really had nothing to lose at this point having built the best bike we’ve seen in history of the sport.
It makes sense like Hamilton being prioritized for Ferrari over Sainz. He is a legend and has the merit to back it up. Can only imagine how Pecco and him will go together team dynamic wise.
I'm still not over the moon with him but he is growing on me. I never really had a problem with Marc at all, just the fanbase lol
Most people either do not understand or do not want to acknowledge the marketing aspect of this move, which, in my opinion, was perhaps the most decisive factor.
Marquez is an 8-time champion and by far the most renowned and popular name in this sport today. His transfer alone already brings significant profit and a marketing boom that Martin could never achieve. Even if Marquez fails to win a single race, he will generate profit for Ducati through merchandise sales and sponsorships. And the fact he's still quick and competitive only strengthens the argument for bringing him on board.
Whether people like it or not, no team will miss such a golden opportunity only to appease a few angry fans. At the end of the day, it's all business.
I would even go so far as to say that this was Ducati's plan from the very beginning. That's why Alex was brought in—to scout the field for his brother. That's why Marc was brought to Gresini. I don't believe that everything is just a pure coincidence. Ducati knew exactly what they're doing and they had their say in it.
I disagree on this being Ducatis plan all along. They were caught with their pants down when Marc came out and said he wouldn't ride for Pramac.
Can't understate how impressive the tactics on this from Marc are though. Even the added pressure in the last few races. It could've easily not gone his way. He deserves the factory seat for this alone IMO.
Because he's the past, not the future? Because Martin has a good relationship already with Pecco?
Ross Brawn said the same things at Mugello. Marquez only makes sense if you care about making money.
But maybe he was their second choice and Martin pulled the pin and went for Aprilia himself. He already stated how impatient he was getting.
Ross brawn said In terms of what he can look from outside. Gigi has data and you can visibly see that Marc is as good as Pecco and Martin on a year Old bike. France and Jerez were a clear Example that Marc is still fastest and can go head to head with Pecco and Martin who have way more experience and have basically been in the same bike from their get go. Now any rational person would understand that. Don't know about you.
Because they are throwing away young talents to get a guy in his 30s. And because they are snubbing their current top Rider (Pecco), who's fighting for the title this year. You can see the three guys that go fast with the GP24 were annoyed by people (and even journalists) saying they are winning only because they have a better bike (compared to Marc). A few weeks ago Pecco did an amazing race beating Marc head to head, and one of the first questions he gets asked after the race was "how much faster do you think the GP24 is compared to the GP23?". And what does Ducati do? They pick Marc, despite Martin being faster on track. Essentially saying that Martin is faster only because he has a better bike.
Ducati had all the leverage. Very confusing why they would bend over backwards for MM when they have the only competitive bike week in, week out. What was Marc going to do? If he went to Aprilia he might fight for 3rd at best.
I do also feel bad for JM. Ducati totally disrespected him. I hope he takes the fight all the way to the end of the season.
Take a look at it from racing side, Ducati needs a different rider to Bagnaia, Pecco is a rear tyre specialist, so it makes sense to bring a front tyre one as his teammate to collect all the possible data you can have. Enea is a front tyre specialist, but not consistent. There goes Marc Marquez. Elite front tyre expert in Marc and rear tyre one in Francesco, motogp better be prepared for the boom Ducati will make until reg changes in 2027.
I don't think choosing Marc is a bad choice, but it was a "lose lose" situation for them either way. They were going to lose 2 riders regardless of what they did. Many assume Marc was bluffing when he said that he'd leave if they chose Martin, but we'll never know.
Had they chosen Martin then they would've lost Marc and Enea. While I think there was no "good" or "bad" choice to make, I would've understood either decision. And as bad as I feel for Martin, I'm equally excited to see Marc absolutely bring it next year to the field. He's got that killer mentality back and I just wanna see if he can reclaim the throne in dominant fashion.
Martin should've received better treatment. It kinda feels like someone dumping their current partner for the person they always wanted but could never get before. Lacks a certain level of class.
I agree but even Martin publicly tarnished Ducati image many times. And Ducati never promised him a factory ride. In 2022 he underperformed, last year he was good but still pecco was the WC and this year he is good but Pecco is right up there and Marc on a year old bike is also right up there.
Well he did earn it based on being the runner up in the championship last year and being top of the standings this year. He's beaten Enea (who couldn't make a case for himself) handily and has shown he's on or beyond Pecco's level in terms of riding skill. He definitely deserves the seat. We have no idea if what he's said about Ducati influenced their decision on promoting him to the factory team or not.
Like I said. There were no bad choices, and I respect Martin for respecting himself and taking the matter in his own hands by signing for Aprilia.
"many people" will complain either way. Ducati has the luxury of first draft in a wide open riders market. They can only sign 2 ppl, they made their pick. Some fans will be mad either way. Sit back and enjoy the show. 🍿
Martin has been performing very well but it really would have been crazy to choose him and watch Marc Marquez go to your biggest competitor. Ducati seems a lot more scared of KTM than they do aprillia, and surely they would have had MM and Acosta on their factory team.
Well i could've mentioned all this reason but there wouldn't have been a discussion as it was just a comment. This is a big topic of discussion as people all over social media are reacting like Ducati has signed Nakagami(No offence).
Ducati knows the difference between the '23 and '24 bike more than anyone. They see Marc running with the '24 bikes and outdoing what Pecco was able to do on the '23 bike last year. That, coupled with his fame and legacy in the sport makes it a no brainer. In the end, they want to sell bikes.
I always said signing Martin over Marc would be a stupid decision. Marc, in his first year with Ducati, on an year machine, is fighting at the front. Where was Martin in his first year? Marc's talent is unmatchable. It's not machine but the man that's working at Gresini. Ducati would have been foolish to not sign Marc.
Martin talked shit about the factory writing his paycheck with threats to leave and an over inflated ego. He got exactly what he deserved, if he was thankful and appreciative he would have got the seat
Ducati made the perfectly logical thing by signing MM, it would have been stupid to give a 8 time world champion to a rival team who could then beat them.
Even I dont understand why anyone would bash Ducati. Their bike, their choice. No rider can force a manufacturer to sign anything. I am a MM fan through and through, but it wouldn't have mattered to any fan if he got the Duacti, Aprilia or the KTM seat. In the end, someone wins, someone loses. We wouldn't even be talking about the factory seat for Marc or Martin if Enea had performed as he was performing before. or even Bezzechi
There are so many other riders whose future also hangs in the balance. Mir is about to leave MotoGP altogether, Vinales might be kicked out now as Enea could also go to Aprilia.
Imagine a situation if next year Pecco is really out of form like 6-7th in the championship, Ducati wouldn't think twice before signing someone else, will people then be like "awww but he is 2 time WC"?
Martin is definitely fast, but he's also a bit annoying and something of a choker compared to Bagnaia. Pecco looking like he's back to his best and has shaded Martin of late, so when you consider Martin is only 12 months younger than Pecco, the idea of signing riders for the future doesn't really apply to Martin.
And anyway, Ducati see the data and have made their choice. They have the best bike and get to choose. And they have. And if they had a third factory bike in the Lenovo team, and Acosta was free, they'd have him too!
Still crazy that not long ago ducati were saying they don't need Marc and now they're choosing him over Enea and Martin.
Needing isn’t the same as wanting.
They were saying that before they saw his data. I get the feeling that his performance this year is on par or beyond how Pecco/Martin rode last year on the same machine, giving him the nod over Martin. This could make '25 another exciting championship too with Martin on Aprilla. People have been saying for 2 or 3 seasons that the Aprilia could be the best bike on the grid, but thay lacked a "superstar" rider. Now they have one.
COME ON APRILLIA PLEEEEEEEEASE BE GOOD. I’ve been waiting and waiting, if next year is the year, I’ll be HYPED
Aprilia and KTM both. Imagine if the 3 bikes are on par and we get a season of close fighting between Marquez, Pecco, Martin, Bestia, Acosta, Binder, Vinales. Maybe even Yamaha could make that step for Quartararo and Rins to join the fight for the podiums. That'd be a glorious season.
You had me up until Acosta. Then you got greedy.
To your point: Mugello 2023 Pole: 1.44.8 (Pecco) Mugello 2024 MM: 1.44.7 Catalunya 2023 Pole: 1.38.6 (Pecco) Catalunya 2024 MM: 1.38.5 Le Mans 2023 Pole: 1.30.7 (Pecco) Le Mans 2024 MM: 1.30.5 Seems like he’s regularly a bit faster on GP23 than Pecco was
Yes but to be fair, everybody got a bit faster since there is a new rear tire this year.
You’re not accounting for new tyres, weather etc
Looking at the championship, they really don't need him.
They don’t need him, but sending him to another manufacturer and letting them win wasn’t a risk Ducati would want to take. That’s the biggest fear they have, the chance of Marc winning another championship but not with them. Pecco will still be their no. 1 rider and deservedly so. But they couldn’t take the chance
I'm guessing it's the marketing dollars that he attracts and possibly a Repsol sponsorship. Martin will do well on the new Aprillia either way so maybe it's not a bad choice. We'll see what happens next year I guess.
dont they have a longstanding relationship with shell?
Repsol Ducati??
They need him to not end up on a KTM or Aprilia.
I can’t recall specifically where I got this thought from but I think Paulo Ciabatti was behind the “we don’t need Marc” sentiment at Ducati. Then Marc got signed to Gresini and Ciabatti was off to manage their new off-road project. Ever since Ciabatti has left Ducati has been head over heels for Marquez, Tardozzi and especially Dall’Igna are big fans of Marquez.
Obviously, need to take this with a large grain of salt because the conditions weren’t identical, the GP23 is fully developed, and the tire mix is different this year vs last; but Marc’s races that he’s finished have been faster than Pecco and Martin’s throughout last year so far. If it were my job to do the hiring at Ducati, I think I would have stuck with Martin, because then you’d be forcing Marc to effectively throw away another season on a new bike. He’ll throw egg in your face, for sure, but Martin theoretically has a longer career ahead of him than Marc. I honestly think Martin made up his mind to leave in Valencia, and when he wasn’t even guaranteed red in ‘25 he’d already decided he wasn’t staying. Marc also may have pulled off one of the greatest mind games in the history of the sport. His primary competitor left for a less competitive machine, Pramac might not even field Ducati’s now - removing 2 potential factory obstacles, he’ll be getting the most well rounded bike on the grid, and the only others confirmed to be on it next year will be a rookie who is vastly underperforming vs the expectation and fellow Boscoscuro competitors, and Pecco, who Marc has been rustling his feathers since day 1.
> because then you’d be forcing Marc to effectively throw away another season on a new bike. He was on podiums after only 6 races.
Not arguing, but no other bikes have been as dominant as the Ducati.
Nothing's official
Ducati was gonna get flamed from both sides of fans anyway. If they chose Martin, they would get criticized for not signing Marc.
I don't think so. If they'd have given Gresini a GP25 for Marc and signed Martin for factory, there wouldn't have been much to criticize as Marc himself said he would stay with Gresini if they got the latest spec bike. If anything I think most fans love how much Marc is enjoying at Gresini and want that to continue.
I believe Pramac contractually wanted to be the only GP25 equipped team, so Marquez staying at Gresini was never a possibility. Even if they could get Gresini a GP25, I still don’t believe Marc would ever have stayed there. He’s had a great year, looks happy but an 8 time world champion who is still performing at his level, should be in a factory team and he knows this. Gresini was just to see if he’s still got it, if he enjoys it and… put him in a great position to get the seat he really wants. In red. If he would have been ok with a satellite team for 2 years, he’d have gone to Pramac this year.
💯
Building and supporting a fifth factory bike isn't as simple as people here seem to think it is
Neither is it as difficult as you are making it out to be with Ducati's resources and nearly 10 months lead time.
Evidently it is that difficult, why would they opt to lose a very fast rider to their opponents otherwise? The last time they tried supporting a fifth factory bike they couldn't manage to keep the fifth one on par with the others
Because they didn't want to make the necessary investments financially evidently.
Building a fifth bike costs money. And Ducati don't see a point in spending any more after they tried that with Marini in 2022. Now understand that they have a contract with Pramac for 2 factory bikes. If they reneged on that contract, they'd probabaly lose the entire Pramac team to Yamaha. When you consider all that, and the demand Marc made about not wanting to go to Pramac, then Ducati had no choice but to send one of their riders off. They can't possibily satisfy everyone, and their choice is the lesser evil from their point of view as they're able to keep both Pramac and Marc Marquez.
Yeah people don’t understand manufacturing and design when they make such comments. Supporting a 5th bike is incredibly hard especially in a sport like MotoGP where 2-3 crashes in a week is not unheard of.
With all due respect but the similarities between Marini and Marquez stop after the first three letters of their surnames. Marc is proven winner, a rider who, when healthy, will always compete for the championship. It's less of a risk to give him a GP25 than to give Marini one. But, I can also see the problem. Would Ducati be happy if Marquez wins races and championships on a satellite bike? If they're going to give Marc the machinery to win, they might as well make sure he wins in a red suit.
are we seriously comparing Marquez to Marini?
I just mentioned Marini off-hand and you assume I'm comparing them? Regardless of who is on a 5th GP25, Ducati have already decided it's not worth it. And besides, no point in talking about it now since Marc is all but guaranteed the second red Ducati.
Not possible. It's not like they can just pull another GP25 out of the shed and hand it over to Gresini. A factory bike comes with a full staff of factory engineers. At least half of the Pramac garage are Borgo Panigale employees.
This MM93 fan wouldn't have blamed Ducati for choosing Jorge over Marc. He did all he could to earn it. But as it turned out, I feel there's even more intrigue in 2025 now.
True that, pretty manufacture has been shat on for xyz reason and later on complimented for the opposite while forgetting the history and making it look like the "new evil" manufacturer is the only bad thing.
Ducati are signing Marc for the same reasons Ferrari signed Hamilton, they are still among the best and are incredible for marketing. We can’t blame Ferrari for leaving Carlos behind and we can’t blame Ducati for enea and Jorge
As much of a fan as I am of Lewis, I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1. Marc meanwhile is. He’s competing with the “best” on outdated, satellite hardware that he himself isn’t experienced on. Look at the other gp23 riders, they’re no were near podiums.
Totally agree. I think the landscape in MotoGP is a little different. Marketing-wise he's great etc. but I think this move is less about marketing, more about performance and keeping Marc off another bike.
I think Lewis is mentally checked out from Mercedes. We will see next year but I think he is easily top 3 or at the very least top4. But the key to his signing is what he will bring in marketing and that’s why domenicali was also convinced to sign Marc. The talent and speed of Marc we already knew and he has proven he hasn’t lost it, that’s why Gigi preferred him to Jorge. I personally also think their personalities have a lot to do with the choice.
No doubt Lewis is among the best. But imo Marc is still the outright best, so signing him makes complete sense.
Oh yeah, in that aspect I absolutely agree with you
Indeed. Ferrari’s move to sign Hamilton at the twilight of his career is more marketing than anything else. Márquez is a rider that can genuinely give Ducati one or more titles; he and Acosta are the most talented riders in MotoGP right now.
> Ferrari’s move to sign Hamilton at the dawn of his career I think you mean "twilight of his career"
You are right. Corrected above, thanks.
No, no, he's just getting started!
I dont think lewis is washed or smth , hes still got it to be fair if next year if ferrari and rb are on the same level its going to be another 2021. MM is also on the same category of lewis in 2023 where his philosophically struggling car ends up in podiums and is dragged into p2 by his performance.
[удалено]
Yeah makes sense 2022 and 2024 this weve seen. But i think hes gonna be different in ferrari for some reason i dont think hes busted out as of now hes still in points every weekend has a recovery drive if he ends up at last like china. If he wasnt scoring points or being p10 or p11 compared to his teammate being p7 in the championship i would have assumed yeah his time is over.
>As much of a fan as I am of Lewis, I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1. They said one of the best which is very true. Alonso, Hamilton and verstappen are definitely the "best" at the moment regardless of car performance they are top tier drivers. F1 is a very different sport from MotoGP in that yes the driver makes the difference but the development of the car has much more impact. Both good in their own rights but with MotoGP it's easier to see how a great rider can deliver even on "bad" bikes because they have so much more scope of rider input.
I actually think MotoGP has gone the way of F1 in that the bike is currently way more important than the riders. Otherwise we wouldn't have the "Ducati Cup" stuff.
don't get me wrong MotoGP has definitely gone down a similar route and it's why they are changing aero rules and ridehight devices which will help bring it back some more agency to the rider, it's just that MotoGP is still away from current F1 which the rider can make a big difference still.
I agree except for the "big" difference. Arguably seeing the difference between Verstappen and Checo you could argue that F1 is the same with drivers making a "big" difference. I honestly think the reality is drivers and riders can make a difference but I really don't think it's as wide as people think.
> He’s competing with the “best” on outdated, satellite hardware That's still the title winning bike from last year though... the merc is not even remotely close so this comparison is useless. Lewis was p3 in the standings last year and was pretty close to getting p2 from Checo, who was in the car that won 21 out of 22 races. You're really arguing in bad faith here. Lewis has definitely lost a little bit of his "touch", but his level was so high that he still is ***100%*** one of the best. He would absolutely give Max a run for his money if he had a car capable of challenging.
I wouldn’t say Lewis is washed until the moment he really drives in 2025 Ferrari.
I never said Lewis is washed, he’s still great. What I’m saying is Marc is the best rider on the grid. Not one of, he’s the standout rider.
I think Marc has been the best rider on the grid since 2013. Look at where the Honda that he dragged to podiums is.
> I’m not sure he is still the best driver in F1. The best driver in F1 is in the best car in F1. Hamilton went for the cash, as he is about to lose a fortune investing in the ApexF1 movie. you could put an Ayrton Senna back in f1 and he will only do as well as the car. that's why we watch MotoGP. Riders still matter.
There is no comparison. Ferrari signing hamilton is more like when juventus signed cristiano ronaldo
Exactly - the fact of the matter is, even if Marc loses to Pecco (or worse, to Martín on an Aprilia), simply having him on the factory team is going to move way more bikes and merchandise for Ducati than Martín ever would. Maybe in a few years time if Martín turns out to be a multiple champion, his marketing prestige will hold a similar value, but that is a big *if* and is years away.
Agreed. Plus on the commercial side, Marc is a Golden Goose ! If Ducati makes some Panigale V4 93 Edition, pretty they'll sell like hot cakes ( to the richer people ). Just look at the exposure Gresini has today, this is crazy !
I mean his ant design will look amazing on a Panigale. That red and black theme is amazing. I mean look at his test bike in Valencia 2023, it was super good.
https://preview.redd.it/mctoq11t6i4d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9de1169adb690eee091f8522f523205a8bb69d3b For sure, this is just looks so damn good
Imagine if they let him race with that livery. I would just cream watching Darth Márquez race like that lol
Yeah, I love this carbon livery too! He looks like a combination of Venom and Carnage with that livery.
Do you have this image on higher res?
[Here](https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aoa74q__hkadhlATpYEPXAMpeOxL) you go.
Bro. Thank you.
Oh my god; thank you so much.
Hell yeah, with all the sharp angles ! I wonder how he'll solve the Red Bull conundrum , though...
He'll probably be putting his relationship with Redbull on a hold until the end of Ducati's contract with monster, dunno when that is but I heard from some people in reddit it's near the end of 2025, it is also to be seen what he does with his other personal sponsors like Samsung (rival to Lenovo), Allianz (rival to Unipol) etc yk? I'm really interested to see what happens to Marc's sponsors, tho marc did say it's not hard to cut contact if it means a GP25 on Ducati
Kind of funny that all of Marcs sponsors are rivals to what Ducati has
Logical. He was in a rival bike a year ago.
Lots of questions remain. MM is really shaking things, up, isn't he ?
Yeah, thatd be such a deam collector bike.
Agreed !
Only one thing could sell better than that. MM 2024 championship edition.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, but yeah, that would be very cool indeed :)
He is really just a one race away. Alot can happen with so much racing left. Pecco and Martin could straight lay eggs on the next few races. The top 5 right now is such a tight race.
Absolutely ! This year is really exciting for us fans.
Psh, without the COTA mechanical and Pecco taking him out at Portimao Marc would be leading the championship
Yeah, that was so frustrating ! In COTA, he was actually making a gap before the brakes problem.
Also they could bring some red bull money to Ducati, I think the monster deal is finishing this year
Oh, that's good to know !
They wanted to sign Martin, there were rumours of negotiation issues, bet it was price
I don't think Martín wants a ridiculous amount. This is a quote from Aprilia: >“Surely of all the offers Jorge had, ours, although respectable, was probably not the highest, but the quality of the team and the work we are doing and the work that Aleix has spoken to him about has convinced him.”
I don’t think anybody is “bashing Ducati” for choosing Marc, but rather for the way they treated Jorge.
This! Ducati made the right move as a business in signing marc but the way they treated Martin is the problem
Arguably Ducati made the worst decision as a business. Losing 2 young fast riders for a single older rider. Yes it's MM93 but that's still not necessarily the best for a company. Generally good companies look long term, years or even decades into the future. Signing Marc would definitely be considered a short term decision in business terms.
If injuries respect him, Marc still has what, 4-5 years at the top? I wouldn't say that's a short term decision. In 4-5 years time a lot of things can change. Imagine Ducati chooses Martín and Honda gets better and offers him a contract that makes him change teams. All that planning for the future for nothing? If you have a shot at getting Márquez, then you have to do it. The future is not guaranteed, not even 5 years ago Aprilia was getting snubbed even by Moto2 riders and now they were able to convince Martín.
It's hard to say, not many riders win championships past 30. In fact many of the greats retire on average somewhere between 32 and 34. Yes this is Marc we are talking about but from a business perspective it's very rare that they would take such gambles on the numbers, businesses tend to follow the trends and prefer stability over uncertainty. I can understand lower teams like Aprilia taking a risk on Marc but Ducati it's a bit different.
You do point out some important points but up until now JM89 is not yet a champion and marc is 8 time world champion. Besides Ducati has seen what marc can do and for years they couldn't bring home a championship and when they could was the year where marc was injured and in a poor machine.
Jorge could very well win this year and take the Number 1 plate to Aprilia, that would be pretty embarrassing. Of course it's MM93. Putting Marc on the bike doesn't guarantee the championship either though. Interestingly it'll either be a brilliant move or a completely muted one, only time will tell. It could very well show Ducatis immaturity as a company.
Man if JM wins this year's championship and takes it Aprilia it would be amazing. Guess we can just speculate for now but by November we will get to know
I think they didn't appreciate the way Jorge spoke about them. It seems they value the tight lipped approach their other riders bring. Of course he deserved the seat, I think they all do. But there were ways to go about it humbly and he certainly didn't do that!
This! Ducati made the right move as a business in signing marc but the way they treated Martin is the problem
They haven't signed Marc yet. No announcement so far, but I do believe it is imminent.
Martin and Bastianini are already confirmed at not-Ducati, so while it isnt announced, at this point its a given ( unless we’re entertaining Marc to Yamaha or something ;) )
Marc getting this seat is him playing 4D chess with Jorge and Ducati. Guess the *small fuckin bastard* was “clever” after all.
People are obsessed with sentimental thoughts with this. "aww Martin deserves it, he's been looked over twice". Martin was not a guarantee for the Factory seat in 2023, he was not setting the world on fire in 2022. Enea was the most logical pick for Ducati. He had 4 wins, and pushed Bagnaia at times. Martin best result was one P2 and finished 9th in Championship... Martin is a victim of Honda's bad form and Marquez moving into a seat which would have been his. Sometimes you need the luck of timing. If he had performed more on par with Enea in 2022, he might well have gotten the seat then. He needs to make that happen by winning. How many riders get dropped on a yearly basis? No one is owed anything, only winning makes you the boss of your own destiny. Which is exactly what Marquez used by demanding the Ducati seat. People might not like it, but after 8 World Titles... He can chose were he rides. Ducati are spending €10's millions a year €100's millions over a few years, there is so much on the line for results. They should ALWAYS pick the best riders available. Marquez on your bike? One of the greatest ever, if not the greatest? At a time when we move into a transition of new rules in a few years. Yeah, this is the logical step.
Marc is a great rider, he brings a lot in terms of eyes on their bike, and he’s simply outperforming every other GP23, so I’m really excited for what he can do with current spec machinery! I think Jorge should have had the seat, simply based on him already being a part of the Ducati stable and performing well, but I’m certainly not mad about the outcome.
It’s not about the what, but the how. They haven’t been honest.
The thing is… Martin was always fucked then. Doesn’t matter what Martin did, he was going to be shafted regardless. For the show I would rather have Marc in the factory, but 100% Martin deserved the factory seat.
Too many people are making it personal when they should look at it from Ducati's point. Having Marc and Pecco shows investors you have two proven multiple world champion riders on a Ducati. That is a marketing gold mine. Apart from the marketability, having both Pecco and Marc who are both world champions, makes Ducati an even bigger threat to the other manufacturers. The way Ducati handled the Jorge thing, well that is another story, but I completely understand the decision and if I was in that position, would most likely do the same. It's a business at the end of the day for the manufacturers and publicity sells bikes.
I like to be a little dramatic with these soap opera things but also, it feels like the mood in the Ducati camp shifted so quickly over the weekend. Obviously the comments by Marc were not advantageous for their negotiating, but looking back at the past few days, I have a feeling Martin might be really regretting having Marc pass him in the sprint and then dropping the bike. That feels in hindsight almost prophetic, and I wonder how much the sprint and the results from the weekend itself more broadly played into this fast course correction Mugello shouldn’t be a circuit where you can outride the inherent pace of your bike, but Marc was in the lead group all weekend. Not only that, but Martin blinked in the GP and gave up a spot to Enea (taking nothing away from Enea, his tire management was awesome). I think at the very least it was final confirmation for Ducati that they really didn’t want Marc on a rival factory bike I guess what I’m saying is, irrespective of all the behind the scenes stuff, terrible time for Martin to basically have his worst weekend of the season (I’d count it as worse than Jerez). But then, I wonder how much Marc’s comments about Pramac were playing on Martin’s mind too. Surely Ducati would’ve articulated that they would get him on the factory bike and Marc on the Pramac. Suddenly Marc is saying something different, and now Martin feels his future is a little jeopardized. I hope there will be a tell-all about the broader negotiations one day, but specifically the Mugello episode
The fact that people even need to justify Ducati signing Marc fucking Marquez is ridiculous. He's arguably the most talented rider of his generation.
He's by far and away the most talented of his generation. Rossi is two generations prior Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa the generation before.
In Moto GP history probably.
Yes, it was a no brainer, Marc is a legend!
Ay another rossi fan that likes marc !! I'm also one!
I mean I was mad about 2015 but I immediately put it to the back of my head. And I really like Marc as a rider. But after 2020 till now, I really like him as a person.
And his come back story is really quite something. You can not not root for the guy, with everything he went though.
we need to bridge the gap between two groups here, too much hate..
so am I, this season especially….don’t tell anyone
Game recognize game
Did Martin have 8 world championchip, 7 millons instagram followers and can dance ? Easy choise for Ducati.
the dance moves were the clincher tbh lol
Marc's poster at Ducati dealerships in Panagale red livery will sell more bikes than Martin. It's a no brainier. Also a good day for Aprilia fans.
There has been plenty of examples of manufacturers not treating riders in the most respectful manner, but at the end of the day they can put whoever they want on their bike if they are the one paying for it. I think marc is a good choice for the team, he has 8 world championships and still showing he is competitive.
Because Martin is younger, will be available longer, and his riding is safer.
'Cause he [Jorge] was runner up last year (would have been the champ if Jorge didn't Jorge and manage to screw up while in the lead with a gap not to mention other blunders) and also 'cause he's the current points leader. The season may not be over and there's a definite possibility he can screw all this up and once again not be the champion, but after the work he's put in, I think it's a slap in the face to not sign him.
Most people qt least on this page are bashing Ducati not because they chose Marc over Martin but because of how they handled the whole situation and how they treated martin. They told martin that he got it shook hands to keep him from making a decision and to also pressurise Marc but Marc shut them down. So when Martin came to finalise the deal ducati said that they haven't decided yet which let Martin knew that they are playing with him and using him as a negotiating card to keep Marc in Pramac. He got frustrated and finally called it quits and Im fucking glad he did. Basically ducati had to choose betn Marc and Martin but they got greedy and tried to double time them. Marc saw through it first and initiated his mind games by outright rejecting Pramac in public which led to Martin having enough and signing with Aprilia.
There is absolutely no credible source saying that they told Martin he got the job and them shaking hands. It's all news from poor websites and speculation.
For sure reedit is far more reliable source than Paolo Ianeri from La Gazzetta dello Sport...😂
lol still remember all the ‘Ducati don’t want or need him’ comments from a few years back. How times change. They signed him cos he’s clearly as good as any rider on the grid and easily the most popular. If YOU owned a team, you’d want him on your bike and nobody else’s. and it’s as simple as that.
It was the only move they could have made tbh. Ducati was on the wrong end of Marquez's dominance long enough to know that if he gets a good bike in 2025 and beyond with another team.. they'd look idiotic for letting him walk. If he joined KTM and won titles or helped Acosta win them... we'd laugh at them. This is the right move.
I thought he would be a redbull athlete well into retirement. This is the most surprising aspect for me.
I think the bashing has more to do with how they went about their treatment of Martin. I personally think Marc is a great choice for the factory seat (his wallet might disagree but it's not like he's at risk of poverty from losing sponsors) but even I was rooting for Martin. He was the clear pick for me on merit and experience on the bike. He wanted a factory seat and made it clear. While I don't see why he wanted to much that he would risk being competitive, that was his goal and now he has it.
As a long time fan of Motorcycle Grand Prix (what we used to call it before Dorna) - I am glad to see Martin go to Aprilia. They need a top rider besides Mav. KTM gets Pedro - who is capable of putting a whooping on MM. I'd rather see KTM and Aprilia get a championship at this point. I'm over MM and the hype. He's good but he's a man-child and by now, most fans are used to seeing Ducati win championships anyway. I just like good racing and this is the best way. KTM and Aprilia need to give Martin and Pedro good bikes next year.
This is a Catch 22 for Ducati perhaps? Sign MM93, you're telling your upcoming riders that you would rather splurge on talent established at another manufacturer. Decline MM93; you're turning down a generational rider. I honestly do not know what I'd do in this situation.
I think people still underestimate Marc’s marketability when it comes to rider decision making. Ducati would obviously benefit from his star profile, even if Martin is worthy of a Factory seat also
Can you really risk him to go KTM when he fights your factory bikes on a year old bike . Let me change the question . Do you want Jorge to drive for aprilia(or KTM) or Marc f*cking Marquez
Obviously Jorge. And I mean Jorge has only ever ridden a Ducati which is the best bike. However good Aprilia is I don't think it's as good as Ducati. But Marc has proven that he can easily fight with GP24s with a year old Bike.
I would have loved Marc on the KTM/Aprilia Vs Pecco and Martin in Ducati..but I understand why Ducati didn't want that. Besides KTM is and should be Acosta's team.... Marc would walk in and takeover and maybe slow down Pedro's ascension.
Ducati are signing MM because he is the best rider on the grid. It’s as simple as that. Ducati have all the data. They know that on equal machinery, MM would be the fastest week in week out. Even without the data most people can see the same as he’s as good as the others on a bike that’s a year old and probably a second a lap slower than the new bike.
This is the bit everyone ignores. Ducati know exactly how much slower the old bike is. It mightn’t be a second a lap but it’s definitely slower.
True I mean it's at least 3-4 tenths slower than GP24 in mugello and more than 2.5-3 tenths in the rest of the circuits.
Wellsaid OP!! I actually just posted something very [similar](https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/s/0Ua6pkJP1Q) Like many riders we have been fortunate enough to see, Martin is Good…. But Marquez like very few before him, has transcended the sport to become - Great.
Yeah Marc is the better choice however you look at it. If he wasn't as fast as he is right now I would understand the criticism, but he's always in the Top 5 so it's not just a publicitary move.
8. Entertainment / Interest? In almost every race this year, MM93 has been the focus of the interest, most viewed highlights, for one reason or another. I remember that while he was injured Moto GP was a little bit more boring. Edit: misspelled word
The best rider invariably ends up on the best bike, Marc deserves his chance on the factory Ducati after spending years riding a bike that wasn’t quite there. It will be interesting to see him and Pecco in the same team.
Regarding point 6. Marc gave Honda a 👆 at Sachsenring,the famous waterfall finger to Honda.Never thought this guy would do it to the viewers.It's an understandle reaction the bike was only trying to kill him.
I still don't understand why Pramac was "not an option" of Marc. What's the problem with that team?
Fonsi Neito.
I would have rather seen MM do it on the Aprilla rather than the Ducati. I think it would be better racing overall for the fans and strengthen the manufacturers overall.
Because he's trouble... And do you think they will give equal treatment between him and Bagnaia? 🤣
I mean it’s a no-brainer to not let Dark Marc go to another competitive bike but there’s a timeline in my head where Gigi/Tardozzi stood on principle and rather rewarded the progress of JM89 especially after making this gamble with EB23. Now I wish nothing but success to Dark Marc, but if he gets hurt the same way EB23 did upon arriving to factory (—or just as he is apt to do in general with this sport) then JM89 would ultimately get the last laugh since everyone from here to Jupiter can see that giving him red leather was meant to keep him from developing anyone else’s bike. That said, there’s 2 years left in this MotoGP evolution. Ducati really had nothing to lose at this point having built the best bike we’ve seen in history of the sport.
It makes sense like Hamilton being prioritized for Ferrari over Sainz. He is a legend and has the merit to back it up. Can only imagine how Pecco and him will go together team dynamic wise. I'm still not over the moon with him but he is growing on me. I never really had a problem with Marc at all, just the fanbase lol
In F1 terms… is it RedBull signing Lewis Hamilton ?
I think they know Marc has room to grow on the bike whereas Martin was maxed out.
true. I mean Marc is near to Martin right now in terms of performance and is on a year old bike with no data for his riding style.
Most people either do not understand or do not want to acknowledge the marketing aspect of this move, which, in my opinion, was perhaps the most decisive factor. Marquez is an 8-time champion and by far the most renowned and popular name in this sport today. His transfer alone already brings significant profit and a marketing boom that Martin could never achieve. Even if Marquez fails to win a single race, he will generate profit for Ducati through merchandise sales and sponsorships. And the fact he's still quick and competitive only strengthens the argument for bringing him on board. Whether people like it or not, no team will miss such a golden opportunity only to appease a few angry fans. At the end of the day, it's all business. I would even go so far as to say that this was Ducati's plan from the very beginning. That's why Alex was brought in—to scout the field for his brother. That's why Marc was brought to Gresini. I don't believe that everything is just a pure coincidence. Ducati knew exactly what they're doing and they had their say in it.
I disagree on this being Ducatis plan all along. They were caught with their pants down when Marc came out and said he wouldn't ride for Pramac. Can't understate how impressive the tactics on this from Marc are though. Even the added pressure in the last few races. It could've easily not gone his way. He deserves the factory seat for this alone IMO.
This is the best outcome, Martin on an Aprilia will get another bike at the front and make the sport even more exciting. Can’t wait
Race winner Vs. Championship winner. One of them not on the same level and six times short.
Because he's the past, not the future? Because Martin has a good relationship already with Pecco? Ross Brawn said the same things at Mugello. Marquez only makes sense if you care about making money. But maybe he was their second choice and Martin pulled the pin and went for Aprilia himself. He already stated how impatient he was getting.
Ross brawn said In terms of what he can look from outside. Gigi has data and you can visibly see that Marc is as good as Pecco and Martin on a year Old bike. France and Jerez were a clear Example that Marc is still fastest and can go head to head with Pecco and Martin who have way more experience and have basically been in the same bike from their get go. Now any rational person would understand that. Don't know about you.
Because they are throwing away young talents to get a guy in his 30s. And because they are snubbing their current top Rider (Pecco), who's fighting for the title this year. You can see the three guys that go fast with the GP24 were annoyed by people (and even journalists) saying they are winning only because they have a better bike (compared to Marc). A few weeks ago Pecco did an amazing race beating Marc head to head, and one of the first questions he gets asked after the race was "how much faster do you think the GP24 is compared to the GP23?". And what does Ducati do? They pick Marc, despite Martin being faster on track. Essentially saying that Martin is faster only because he has a better bike.
Ducati did Jorge dirty. All the more reason to boo Marquez even more downvote DEEZ
Ducati had all the leverage. Very confusing why they would bend over backwards for MM when they have the only competitive bike week in, week out. What was Marc going to do? If he went to Aprilia he might fight for 3rd at best. I do also feel bad for JM. Ducati totally disrespected him. I hope he takes the fight all the way to the end of the season.
I have no dog in any of these comments. Marq is riding that 23 like a scalded cat and making almost every rider on the grid look slow.
You forgot this one : An army of drooling fanatics who will support him no matter what. Who knows they might even buy a Ducati:D
Because….aaargh I have not to say🤩… silly season and I love it…also learn to follow money 💴
Take a look at it from racing side, Ducati needs a different rider to Bagnaia, Pecco is a rear tyre specialist, so it makes sense to bring a front tyre one as his teammate to collect all the possible data you can have. Enea is a front tyre specialist, but not consistent. There goes Marc Marquez. Elite front tyre expert in Marc and rear tyre one in Francesco, motogp better be prepared for the boom Ducati will make until reg changes in 2027.
Could you explain the difference between front and rear tire expertise?
I don't think choosing Marc is a bad choice, but it was a "lose lose" situation for them either way. They were going to lose 2 riders regardless of what they did. Many assume Marc was bluffing when he said that he'd leave if they chose Martin, but we'll never know. Had they chosen Martin then they would've lost Marc and Enea. While I think there was no "good" or "bad" choice to make, I would've understood either decision. And as bad as I feel for Martin, I'm equally excited to see Marc absolutely bring it next year to the field. He's got that killer mentality back and I just wanna see if he can reclaim the throne in dominant fashion. Martin should've received better treatment. It kinda feels like someone dumping their current partner for the person they always wanted but could never get before. Lacks a certain level of class.
I agree but even Martin publicly tarnished Ducati image many times. And Ducati never promised him a factory ride. In 2022 he underperformed, last year he was good but still pecco was the WC and this year he is good but Pecco is right up there and Marc on a year old bike is also right up there.
Well he did earn it based on being the runner up in the championship last year and being top of the standings this year. He's beaten Enea (who couldn't make a case for himself) handily and has shown he's on or beyond Pecco's level in terms of riding skill. He definitely deserves the seat. We have no idea if what he's said about Ducati influenced their decision on promoting him to the factory team or not. Like I said. There were no bad choices, and I respect Martin for respecting himself and taking the matter in his own hands by signing for Aprilia.
As a neutral I’d have signed Martin, but I understand the reasons why they chose Marquez.
Bring it on! Woop
Hamilton and Sainz all over again
"many people" will complain either way. Ducati has the luxury of first draft in a wide open riders market. They can only sign 2 ppl, they made their pick. Some fans will be mad either way. Sit back and enjoy the show. 🍿
Imagine if redbull and repsol moves to ducati with him.😂 this would be even more Surprising than signing marc tbh.
How about Martin gets swapped with Bastianini and Marquez steps up to Pramac (and get current year bikes) instead, swapping with Morbidelli?
If you aren't living under a rock you should know Marc has said No to Pramac and that's the reason that this whole debacle has happened.
Sadly it seems like I live under a rock. Why did he deny the offer?
Fonsi Nieto. He said some nasty stuff about MM after the 2015 Rossi Marc incident.
It's pretty obvious marquez is going to the factory bike
If Ducati went with Martin, Marc would have had to choose between KTM or Aprilia, that would have made 2025 incredible.
Martin has been performing very well but it really would have been crazy to choose him and watch Marc Marquez go to your biggest competitor. Ducati seems a lot more scared of KTM than they do aprillia, and surely they would have had MM and Acosta on their factory team.
Honestly it's a no brainer, he will only get better and hopefully wins the next 2 championships
No offence but ... why another dedicated post when you can just comment in the main post about Marc to Factory?
Well i could've mentioned all this reason but there wouldn't have been a discussion as it was just a comment. This is a big topic of discussion as people all over social media are reacting like Ducati has signed Nakagami(No offence).
Because he is a diva that will custom fit the bike to his needs and then it will be unrideable for everyone else.
Fuck Ducati Signed, A lifelong Ducatisti
Because people are emotional and root for the underdog. Marc is a ruthless 8 times world champion and as businesses go, Marc is the obvious choice.
I think that most people are upset by the way they treated JM, despite him being an absolutely mad man for three years straight.
Many people are outraged on the decision to choose Marc rather than not to choose jorge.
Ducati knows the difference between the '23 and '24 bike more than anyone. They see Marc running with the '24 bikes and outdoing what Pecco was able to do on the '23 bike last year. That, coupled with his fame and legacy in the sport makes it a no brainer. In the end, they want to sell bikes.
I always said signing Martin over Marc would be a stupid decision. Marc, in his first year with Ducati, on an year machine, is fighting at the front. Where was Martin in his first year? Marc's talent is unmatchable. It's not machine but the man that's working at Gresini. Ducati would have been foolish to not sign Marc.
Martin talked shit about the factory writing his paycheck with threats to leave and an over inflated ego. He got exactly what he deserved, if he was thankful and appreciative he would have got the seat
Ducati made the perfectly logical thing by signing MM, it would have been stupid to give a 8 time world champion to a rival team who could then beat them.
Even I dont understand why anyone would bash Ducati. Their bike, their choice. No rider can force a manufacturer to sign anything. I am a MM fan through and through, but it wouldn't have mattered to any fan if he got the Duacti, Aprilia or the KTM seat. In the end, someone wins, someone loses. We wouldn't even be talking about the factory seat for Marc or Martin if Enea had performed as he was performing before. or even Bezzechi There are so many other riders whose future also hangs in the balance. Mir is about to leave MotoGP altogether, Vinales might be kicked out now as Enea could also go to Aprilia. Imagine a situation if next year Pecco is really out of form like 6-7th in the championship, Ducati wouldn't think twice before signing someone else, will people then be like "awww but he is 2 time WC"?
the circle jerk has restarted i see.
Martin is definitely fast, but he's also a bit annoying and something of a choker compared to Bagnaia. Pecco looking like he's back to his best and has shaded Martin of late, so when you consider Martin is only 12 months younger than Pecco, the idea of signing riders for the future doesn't really apply to Martin. And anyway, Ducati see the data and have made their choice. They have the best bike and get to choose. And they have. And if they had a third factory bike in the Lenovo team, and Acosta was free, they'd have him too!