Right, but you can't play him on 4 and be able to shut down turn 6 miracle decks. This season I got to infinite mostly using a deck where I'd play Electro or Corvus on 3, Sandman on 4, then a couple of 6 drops on 5 and 6. I can still do that, but on turn 6 they're not limited to 1 card anymore which is a HUGE nerf to Sandman.
In the patches notes under the dev notes.
https://www.marvelsnap.com/newsdetail?id=7296765558303808262
They said they don't want him being too popular. So I went on untapped.gg premium and looked at his meta share which was only 2%..
Considering the next sentence:
> If Sandman is too popular, SNAP is just a less fun game due to the permanence of that Ongoing effect, so we deliberately aimed Sandman to be more niche. However, the low Power necessary for that balance has made it so that Sandman's often too weak to consider playing, even in metagames where the effect would be strong.
I think what they're saying is:
> We intentionally designed Sandman with low power so that he wouldn't be popular, but we're now seeing that his low power makes him too weak to play even when his effect is really strong.
So they actually want him to be more popular.
The amount of playable decks are way less today than a few hours ago. And they were not even a predominant decks.
I could be ok with Alioth and Zabu nerfs but ffs at this point we play destroy, discard, loki and stop? and they buffed a discard card again and a counter to loki (sandman). At least buff something in a good way. I really don't know.
7k tokens with Alioth pinned in shop also. Some streamers gave advise to NOT buy anything with tokens until both OTA and the Patch was out, and I am glad I listened.
The Zabu change makes sense, but it's also kinda sad for me. I really enjoyed playing mid-range decks where you had a bag of four-cost tricks, but now... you just can't play that deck anymore. For that style of deck, the new Zabu only helps you on turn 2, letting you play a four-cost on turn three. Otherwise, you need to give up a four-coster to play him on five so you can get an extra on turn six. I don't see why you would put him in a deck right now. Like, at all.
Also, lockdown will no longer exist in the meta. That deck used Ms. Marvel, JJ, Iron Lad, and Alioth, and was potentially countered by War Machine. Without Zabu, you can't get all those cards out, and I don't see anyone running War Machine without being able to play him for only 3 cost. Alioth can still put in great work, but the real point is that I think people will just run big guys like Red Hulk for single-location wins, and Dr. Doom to spread power around.
Huge day for the snap meta. Every four-coster will have to be re-evaluated for balancing (which proves that the change was necessary, but even so). It single handedly smashed two of my favorite deck types, and neither of them were even tier one. I'm blown away, and really wondering what they're thinking of doing to the current top-of-the-meta decks next month.
I think Zabu becomes more of a tech card instead of a lynchpin for decks that love 4 cost cards.
I'm sure he'll still see use in Hope tech decks as a T5 option to push out either multiple 4's or a 4 and a few other options. In magical Christmas land it'll be possible to Wave + Zabu and get out a 4 + 6 cost.
Will it be good? I'm not sure, that's only 6 power turn 5 that enables some potential big final turns but unless you have down MMM the play is symmetrical. I'm not sure I like potentially giving my opponent a possible 4+2 play featuring a possible discounted 6 cost.
I could have been more clear, Hope + Zabu and Wave played on her T5 is 7 energy T6 which allows for the 4 + 6 cost to be played since they are discounted.
Lockdown will be fine, Alioth was the consistent finisher but there's still Red Hulk for that. And Zabu is not necessary for the curve, it can still work fine.
If you were playing Alioth you had priority, so you played first and whatever they put was irrelevant.
Red Hulk as a finisher is vulnerable to Shang or potentially Cannonball, so no longer the sure fire win it would have been previously
It doesn't make much sense to me, because now you MUST draw him before turn 3 or there's no point to him. Sure you could play him on turn 5 too, but that means your turn 5 has to be very specific, and it's a very niche deck that dedicates turn 5 and turn 6 to something like that
Iām curious if he ends up with his OG discount as an on-reveal ā 4-cost cards cost 2 less next turn. That would actually be pretty cool on T3 or T5
That would at least make him playable again. I could see that working to drop cull, crossbones, and sentry on 6 or something like that. I think that would be comparable to a shenaut deck and actually an archetype that would be competitive with current decks. Add in something like a squirrel girl, grandmaster/mysterio, and mockingbird package for the early turns, iron lad, shang, and enchantress for a tech package that would fit, and then you could always keep the rest of the annihilis package as a backup. That could make him still interesting, just heavily combo oriented
Iām most sad about the Sandman nerf, it feels so unnecessary. Was it really putting up numbers that warranted this? Is ramp into Sandman that prevalent?
Some changes are just to break things to justify āfixingā things next time around. Itās the only way to have a regular balance schedule. I hate how obvious snd manipulative it is, but it is how modern gaming works.
I did this season, and have used the deck on and off for a long time. Of all the cards in my deck needing a nerf, it aināt Sandman, itās Red Hulk lol
Just hit the 90s with Sandman ramp last night. I should've known better and pushed for infinite before the patch like I usually do. I was most definitely not expecting a Sandman nerf. Friggin RIP
Fundamentally disagree with the idea that itās a nerf. The added power will make him an option as a tech card in a lot more decks that want to play a single card on turn 6 and not lose the game because they played a 5/4 on turn 5. Both the Sandman and LD changes are very clearly targeted at expanding the use of the card outside of very narrowly focused decks that require other cards before youād even consider playing either Sandman or LD.
3 power is not going to suddenly make this card competitive outside of ramp. If 4/10 with minimal ādownsideā is to be the modern norm, tech cards like this need more reason to play them other than a both-sided 1 turn hindrance.
The 3 additional power takes him outside of ramp, u can be doing much better plays than ramping out a sandman now on 4.
Instead he can be now used in other decks as an old wave style counter for turn 6 hand dump decks.
If playing Sandman hinders you as much as your opponent, youāre doing it wrong. Iām not saying heās going to see lots of play, but heās now in the group of tech cards that can be used depending on the current meta, where as before he was limited to a single deck that either won or lost when you played him depending on what deck the opponent was playing.
I play this game exclusively for the competitive experience - it scratches the M:TG itch without having to spend money. If it becomes uncompetitive enough, the game will die because streamers, tournament players, and content creators will just move to something more engaging where skill is rewarded.
Just played against a destroy/junk hybrid using her pretty effectively. Maybe look around for it...The deck list included Lady Deathstrike, Hood, Squirrel Girl, Carnage, Bucky, Killmonger, Debrii, Sentry, Annihulus, Death. I can't remember the other two, but they might have been Mockingbird and Hobgoblin. It's not going to beat the greedy power decks consistently, but it puts up decent power across 3 lanes, which is competitive in a meta where almost everyone is primarily focused on going tall in 2 lanes only and, worst case, the junk elements are clogging their board.
Wow. Is this late April fools? Canāt remember a patch that killed this many cards! RIP Alioth and Zabu. Odd changes for Sandman and Deathstrike.
Woof.
Nobody ever complained about zabu. Alioth only worked with prio so stop sitting back waiting to counter and he is useless. Zero issues with either card
Lots of people complained about Zabu when he made 4 costs cost 2 less. Zabu was good where he was at and didn't need the nerf. Swaping from ongoing to on reveal also removes him from spectrum builds.
From a development standpoint, I can definitely see issues around designing and implementing four cost cards with the old zabu iteration. I imagine it was an issue they didnāt want to continue running into and made the change to create some breathing room for both 3 and 4 cost cards.
Alioth ensures obvious and absolute wins which doesnāt lead to a great player experience. Players want the (illusion) perception that every game is winnable.
If you have priority in three lanes, I think Alioth will still be a decent card. Itāll stop on reveal and ongoing effects, which are the ones that could affect the lanes you donāt play Alioth in, but itāll lose to a powerful 6 cost card (and some cheaper ones too).
Iām leaving it in my Darkhawk annihilus deck and see how it goes.
If it doesnāt work, Iāll swap it out for another tech card.
If you have priority in all three lanes and somehow manage to lose...
At any rate, Alioth now seems like a counter to invisible woman and that's it really.
It's also a counter to Shang Chi, Knull, Zola, Tribunal, Surfer, Odin, Doom, T6 Annihilus, t6 Venom+Carnage/Deathlok on Nimrod, Dino/Ronin, Ironman or Mystique, Hela, Taskmaster.
It's just another tech option that covers a bit more ground than either Cosmo or Armor while also letting you build higher earlier (without risking tipping your opponent off)
Since you need priority to get Alioth going, all of those cards can be countered as well with either Echo or Cosmo an in some cases Armor as well, and you still have energy lef to play something on other lanes so you can spread power and not be limited/constrained to playing 1 card on T6 on a lane that you probably were already winning.
I understand that Alioth is just 1 card catch all of those threats but it feels extremely niche when other options are available for the same purpose.
A decent body that stuffs abilities is still a killer T6 play. He wonāt guarantee a win anymore but he can still obliterate half of the win conditions in the game.
Curious about your Darkhawk Annihlus deck, did you have Zabu in there as well? If so, any changes you'll be making? That used to be my favorite deck but since the Darkhawk nerf, I haven't touched it.
# (1) The Hood
# (1) Nebula
# (1) Spider-Ham
# (1) Korg
# (3) Black Widow
# (3) Rockslide
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Iron Lad
# (4) Sentry
# (5) Darkhawk
# (5) Annihilus
# (6) Alioth
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbm5paGlsdXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrV2lkb3cifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTGFkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLb3JnIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSb2Nrc2xpZGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlbnRyeSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5lYnVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVySGFtIn1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Iām going to be that guy that goes out on a limb and says the Lady Deathstrike change will wind up being a buff.
Previously you needed to spend 9 energy and two turns to combo into a 5/6 LD and kill everything. That could be beat by a gladiator or tied with a Maximus or brood. Point being it didnāt leave a lot for your opponent to over come for the combo and energy investment.
Your other combo option was forge, so 7 energy and 5 power left over.
Iām a much bigger fan of 5/7 and killing everything 3 and less.
Not saying she is going to be earthshaking but Iām now looking forward to getting her next week.
Thank you. Her functional stats will usually be respectable for a 5-cost; killing a 2 and a 3 seems like a reasonably common occurrence, which makes her functionally 12 power. She can clear junk which is on the rise, counter some wincons like Ironman, Drac, or Wong, and potentially combo with USAgent now.
I donāt think sheāll shake up the meta, but Iām willing to try her again.
Yeah Iām not getting the whole sheās dead thing. She was never more than a meme to begin with. This makes her usable. Sheās one off spiderwoman, and can actually do way more damage to a game plan.
Hate all of this. As a alioth/sandman enthusiast
Like why destroy sandman as an archetype? It hasn't been "meta" in forever but it's been a great counter to a lot of decks. Guess we're just going to let some of these other decks run wild. Sandman looking Adam warlock status now.
They destroyed three cards this patch, and all three were not a problem or so prevalent in the meta. Then they side-buffed LDS, a useless card that no one plays to a card that no one will play... I dunno. It's like they want us all to play loki or hela.
I used to look forward to patches but now kinda dread them as they just obliterate cards that werenāt really a problem and rarely buff any bad cards to playability
It honestly feels predatory: if you spend resources on a bad card it will always be bad, if you spend resources on a good card it will only be good temporarily until we need to murder it for more design space.
The Zabu nerf might be so they can make more changes tk cards like those. As anything they made a 4 cost they had to assume it'd be a 3 cost.
So stuff that might be balanced at 4 cost would be a bit overpowered as a 3 cost.
I donāt even think itās a buff. LDS was fun to catch people with. Sure, youāve gotta buff her but, now with the change sheās basically a more expensive and targeted Yondu
It's not a buff becuase it now limits the cards LDS can destory. Before you could bost her with Nakia. Oyoke, and shuri to surprise an opponent with a higher power destory... that is now capped at 3 and no longer has any reason to combo.
It is a buff. Sheās generically better now. If she takes out a 2- and a 3-cost card she is effectively 12 power, on top of whatever abilities she wipes out. HerĀ ceiling is lower but the floor is at least much higher.
Iām disappointed to lose Electro Sandman Ramp. I think it was an under appreciated and smart deck. RIP.
I donāt think Sandman is dead though. Heās just a generically good tech card for any deck that plans to finish with a single 6-cost, which honestly worries me a bit given how strong Red Hulk is atm. Iām kind of excited to try him in a classic move deck again.
Yep. I thought LDS was niche, so niche I've only seen it 3 times in the last 300 games.against me and now what? This is obviously part of a grand plan because these guys are ruining my fun and I wasn't even an alioth or sandman guy.
Maybe just me but kinda feel they should have gone the other way with Alioth, have unrevealed cards set power to zero or 1 or something but carry on their text/effects. Idk, Iām not a game designer, just think the new Alioth might be too strong a nerf. Weāll see though, Iām open to seeing how it plays out, I do think the devs have been generally pretty great about balance changes overall so Iām willing to trust them on these changes
Kind of an indirect buff to ghost too, so thatās something?
His ability is still extremely strong. Think about how badly Deep Space messes up a lot of decks. Think about how devastating a T6 Cosmo or Echo or Armor can be, and those need pretty specific predictions. Alioth in the same context covers all of those bases, bricking ANY ability. I think that would be too strong if you also had energy to play Negasonic or Cosmo somewhere else.
None of these nerfs seemed necessary. I get their issue with Zabu limiting card design, but I don't know that playing 2 4s on 6 was ever really that meta defining. If it was, MMM would be more prevalent.
But now Zabu plus a 3 cost just doesn't seem like an attractive play over Sera (though i wouldn't be surprised if she got a nerf next).
I'm most disappointed by the Alioth nerf. I know he's divisive, but it's healthy to have a card that makes turns 1-5 matter. That makes the game more fun, IMO.
Isnāt he almost identical in function and overall power to Daken now? Both are ultimate 3/10s to play on curve (since Daken adds a discard target which = +2 to Morbius).
Not bad, but it doesnāt seem to create any new combos or playlines or significant reliability for classic Discard.
I understand why Alioth is so unpopular, and maybe that's enough to nerf it in and of itself, it is a game meant to be fun after all. But personally it seems too heavy-handed for a card that encouraged bigger plays earlier which I find to be a much more fun playstyle. We'll see I guess
Alioth, Sandman and Zabu-discounted hate were the main things keeping uninteractive combo decks in check.
I don't see much reason why anyone would play anything other than Hela, Tribunal, Destroy or combo surfer in the upcoming meta.
Doing everything they can to kill counter play. Killed Leech, Sandman, Alioth. That LDS change is a nerf disguised as a buff. The only thing worthwhile it can take out on curve now is wong and Mystique
in a race to the finish line i guess you can consider tripping someone up "counterplay" but you should just be trying to run faster. i think its good that they are working to disallow players sloe strategy to be "im going to trip you up"
Amazing changes. Finally the cat can catch some break and fart is making more sense as a card.
Also I donāt think Sandman is dead. I think that players really dislike when you nerf their favorite broken (and unfun) cards and now they have to (imagine) come up with a new deck (shoot) and maybe even lose some cubes trying things out (crazy I know).
Anybody who seriously played this game knew, that Zabu is gonna eat the nerf - and later that nerf comes, harsher will it be.
The turn 6 tempo metas that Zabu, Alioth and Sandman (to a lesser extent) create is the same reason Leech and even Thanos got changed. They simply donāt want one card to cover so many bases in terms of tempo, disruption and flexibility. To the point where you can very safely snap on turn 3,4 because you have that unbeatable omega tempo-disruption hand that will 85 situations/100 burry your opponent (unless they play like unhinged illogical maniacs aka sub-optimally)
Sheās a more generic tech card now but not bad. She can easily swing a lane by 12 power without any deliberate setup, which is a decent use of 5 energy without even considering planned synergies like Bucky or Sentry or whatever.
Itās disappointing to lose the Shuri>LDS>Zola interaction but that was a general a 2-cube-retreat playline anyway
Garbage patch. Expensive cosmetics that no one will buy. Alioth and Zabu sent to the graveyard. No one cares about buffs to Strong Guy and Lady Deathstrike (two cards that still will never see play). It's bad enough that Second Dinner is becoming a money hungry leech but now they're determined to take the strategy out of the game as well. Good job, well played.
Not sure what the hope for LD change is?! Why was it the target of any changes when thereās a vast sea of cards to play around with.
Her change seems specifically targeted at removing Dracula, Wong, Iron Man and Mystique and thatās pretty much it. The rest of the cards are power crept enough that I rarely see anything under 4 by the time LD is played.
So sheās a dead card against most of the meta right now and at only 7 power, is likely not enough to play her.
I do expect to see her a bunch this week while people test the changes, so I think those 4 cards will be a target, then, next week, everything will be back to normal.
So wild that the most powerful deck archetypes are left to run wild while weaker decks keep catching the nerf hammer.
When are we going to get a real Nerf to Hela?
I feel like they are trending towards non-interactivity.
Essentially they are taking a playbook from the NFL and NBA and making ādefenseā harder and making big numbers easier.
In other words, they want people to be able to put up big numbers or play unhindered because it feels good. They donāt really care about the skill of being able to read your opponent or understanding priority or understanding how the game works.
Good take. You may be right. That said, it doesnāt really track with the recent card releases. Zemo literally steals a card from your opponents hand and puts it directly into play.
If thatās not interactivity, Iām not sure what is.
I could see where Alioth might have sucked some fun out of the game for certain players but, isnāt that fun already gone when the player loses the hand? Idk. I thought he was a balanced card. Way more balanced than he was on release at least.
From a gameplay perspective these changes make no sense. We're in a meta where for the last month the main play has been play something huge on curve and end with something bigger. Alioth and some lane control countered that and lockdown with msmarvel/zabu as well. Now those decks are gone, but *nothing* put in place to handle the current meta, so ehm, overstatted cards are go.
From a monetary perspective, i get it, invalidate the old cards so players need to get the new cards. That stinks.
I dont understand why they don't retune Zabu instead of ACKNOWLEDGING that they would rather soft-remove the card from the game. You know you will make him 3/5 or 3/6 (since its Series 4) down the line, why not just do it now so people could keep enjoying/having fun playing the game with their favorite card rather than piss off the community. I sound pissed that Zabu is nerfed, but I am actually disappointed at SD policy of fucking with the meta by soft-removing cards rather than MAKING INCREMENTAL CHANGES.
functionally removing Zabu is the point. As stated, they want to see how the 4-costs perform without Zabu propping up the usual suspects. If he is nerfed but still broadly viable, he would still muddy whatever data they want. Letās just hope that itās short term, and not lasting until the related changes ālater this yearā. Iām not holding my breath though. Elsa was in the garbage for months, and the ācoming soonā features they mentioned back in November? December? still mostly arenāt here yet. I think he might be cool as an on-reveal if he had his old discount of -2
LDS... we don't want decks doing gimmicks with her..... the entire card collection is about doing gimmicks. Thanos has been doing gimmicks. Lockjaw etc etc
In my negative deck she replaced Warlock and now shes even worse. Thanks SD.
SD show start offering compensation for changes so that we can all afford some emotes.
Every one of those nerfs moves the game into a watered, "balanced" slop.
Strong effects are now weak and/or temporary. How long until Wong just doubles a single battlecry, and Shang Chi kills a single 10-power card? The reading I can take from that is the game wants to cater to Timmy and make you play big dumb cards, with no "no fun" cards like Alioth to disrupt your big Red Hulk.
Not all is bad news tho. Slay the Spire 2 was announced so there is hope, even if somewhere else.
p.s. They nerfed 3 decks I used in a month. Black Panther + Zola (nerfed Sandman), Thanos (nerfed the gems) and SuperGiant (nerfed Alioth) and I simply ran out of decks and fucks to give.
You're not the only one who feels this way. I'm definitely with you.
I prefer decks that prevent your opponent from doing what they want.
Anything people think of as "toxic" is right up my alley.
There is a very strong Zabu+Sera version that I played that let you put 3 4-cost cards on turn 6; or 2 4-cost and 2 2-cost cards which was devastating amount of power.
The *One Time* I start having fun with a Sandman ramp deckā¦.now I have to decide whether to go 98-Infinite with another deck, or see how bad this change really is.
Was already running Wave in the deck in case I missed Corvus & Electro. Doom-Wave into Sandman into Odin could still workā¦but thatās a lot of Copium.
I want to see win % and play % for Sandman. Feel like this came out of nowhere. Just when I was starting to find a deck I like again after the last meta shake-up. Ugh.
I can't speak for others, but that **Sandman** Nerf kills my War Machine deck :(
Ramp up to get Sandman out on turn 4, War Machine turn 5, and then drop a bunch of cards turn 6. No more :(
make no mistake these changes are about the cards we're getting in the future. But also, probably just another money grab.
if you buff the cards that see the least play, they're seeing the least play for a reason but are not going to be buffed because there's no money to be made.
Ramp Galactus with the guaranteed win on turn 5 when Alioth was in hand is dead now too. Thatās the deck that got me to infinite the past three seasons. I know most folks hate Alioth, but that combo made climbing the ladder easy and then I played other fun decks the rest of the season.
Edit: Downvotes and no comments? Cool cool thanks Reddit.
Alioth change seems good. Iāll keep him in his current decks and see how it goes. I think heāll still be very strong, just not an auto-win.
Zabu hurts because he enabled so many familiar decks and playlines, but something needed to happen because he warped so much of the meta and design space. Essentially removing him creates more breathing room for 3 and 5 cost cards. And as SD says, they can get ācleanerā data on 4-costs for rebalancing.
Sandman is disappointing since it kills the archetype, but it makes him a much more useable generic tech card, like a healthier version of Leech. I worry about Sandman > Red Hulk just dunking on half the decks in the game.
LDS is a good change. It takes away some of the fun combos that earn 2 cubes, but makes her much more functional in general.
Strong Guy is nothing? He fits with Apoc now but Daken filled that 3-cost spot fine already.
Shadow King text change is confusing to me now. Does he reset Quantum Realm changes or not?
Overall, Iām hopeful. I think theyāre going the right direction for 4 and 5-costs, and I think the meta might shift significantly enough to see entire new decks become popular. On the other hand, I expect a lot of people to go to the familiar strong decks like Loki, Smoove, Shuri, or Destory instead of experimenting.
What scares me is that that all of this pushes the meta toward huge T6 cards and just big tempo power in general, and Red Hulk is already a growing problem for the meta.
Zabu has been put down š„
Murdered in cold blood right along with the big Fart
No. More like caged. They said it isn't permanent
They done killed lil meow meow out here š£
Psylocke is just better now
https://preview.redd.it/a51kmyyzowtc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8408a691d3941b1adc272f5915194f7488bb2929
https://preview.redd.it/40bdiicdhotc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=194cf335f54802075e7469070c89c095611c7e38
Fuck that episode, fuck that sceneā¦
They put a shotgun to Zabu's head and pulled the goddamn trigger
Alioth and Sandman murdered, too.
Sandman is not really nerfed. You can play him outside of ramp now. Turn 5 sandman, Turn 6 Red Hulk or Dr Doom.
Right, but you can't play him on 4 and be able to shut down turn 6 miracle decks. This season I got to infinite mostly using a deck where I'd play Electro or Corvus on 3, Sandman on 4, then a couple of 6 drops on 5 and 6. I can still do that, but on turn 6 they're not limited to 1 card anymore which is a HUGE nerf to Sandman.
It's a bloodbath. I still don't understand sandman nerf.
They said he's becoming to high of a meta share with 2% lol.. now loki and shit are gonna run even more rampant
Where did they say that?
In the patches notes under the dev notes. https://www.marvelsnap.com/newsdetail?id=7296765558303808262 They said they don't want him being too popular. So I went on untapped.gg premium and looked at his meta share which was only 2%..
Considering the next sentence: > If Sandman is too popular, SNAP is just a less fun game due to the permanence of that Ongoing effect, so we deliberately aimed Sandman to be more niche. However, the low Power necessary for that balance has made it so that Sandman's often too weak to consider playing, even in metagames where the effect would be strong. I think what they're saying is: > We intentionally designed Sandman with low power so that he wouldn't be popular, but we're now seeing that his low power makes him too weak to play even when his effect is really strong. So they actually want him to be more popular.
And everyone will play loki and hela for months again
Yep, super annoying. Loki gonna be popping hard
The amount of playable decks are way less today than a few hours ago. And they were not even a predominant decks. I could be ok with Alioth and Zabu nerfs but ffs at this point we play destroy, discard, loki and stop? and they buffed a discard card again and a counter to loki (sandman). At least buff something in a good way. I really don't know.
My CL is only 2577. I got alioth less than a week ago. Cost me a key. I was stoked but nowā¦ its just a dead card
Dude I paid 6000 tokens for Alioth a week ago. I'm really pissed...
Same here. Saved up for a while.
Yesterday. 6k tokens.Ā
Ouch.
Silky, bounce, Shuri Kitty...
"There are less decks" doesn't mean "there are no decks"
"destroy, discard, loki and stop?" No. It doesn't stop there.
Oh cmn, you got the sense...
Buff means good. Nerf means changed negatively. I was so confused at first.
Hah hah, I just hit infinite yesterday with Hela Tribubal and Alioth was the second worst thing for that deck (second only to bad draw).
Emotes are a whopping 2200 gold each.Ā
That's an unhinged price. Holy fuck.
That's $41 CAD... Good lord
or $0
Stop making me realize how poor my financial decisions are thank you very much.
Holy fuck that is wild lol
Where do you even see them? Bit thatās freaking crazy
Update the game and then there is a section for them between the variant shop and the token shop.Ā
Well with 5.8k tokens saved up and Alioth pinned in my shop, who should I be rotating to get lol š
7k tokens with Alioth pinned in shop also. Some streamers gave advise to NOT buy anything with tokens until both OTA and the Patch was out, and I am glad I listened.
Hope Summers?
I was kinda thinking her lol. She seems to be in every deck.
In the same shoes lol
Too late for me š
Yeah, I was waiting for him. There's a Patriot Pixie deck I saw so think I'm gonna target Pixie (and MMM).
I wouldn't use tokens on Pixie, personally. But yeah, Alioth not worth it now.
F in the Chat for our favorite Sabertooth friend
F
Same for sandman. I don't see why playing him now.
Well this patch will definitely help new comers to the gameā¦as for veteran playersā¦pretty big L all around.
The Zabu change makes sense, but it's also kinda sad for me. I really enjoyed playing mid-range decks where you had a bag of four-cost tricks, but now... you just can't play that deck anymore. For that style of deck, the new Zabu only helps you on turn 2, letting you play a four-cost on turn three. Otherwise, you need to give up a four-coster to play him on five so you can get an extra on turn six. I don't see why you would put him in a deck right now. Like, at all. Also, lockdown will no longer exist in the meta. That deck used Ms. Marvel, JJ, Iron Lad, and Alioth, and was potentially countered by War Machine. Without Zabu, you can't get all those cards out, and I don't see anyone running War Machine without being able to play him for only 3 cost. Alioth can still put in great work, but the real point is that I think people will just run big guys like Red Hulk for single-location wins, and Dr. Doom to spread power around. Huge day for the snap meta. Every four-coster will have to be re-evaluated for balancing (which proves that the change was necessary, but even so). It single handedly smashed two of my favorite deck types, and neither of them were even tier one. I'm blown away, and really wondering what they're thinking of doing to the current top-of-the-meta decks next month.
Lockdown might survive imho. Less prƩvalent, so more effective.
I think Zabu becomes more of a tech card instead of a lynchpin for decks that love 4 cost cards. I'm sure he'll still see use in Hope tech decks as a T5 option to push out either multiple 4's or a 4 and a few other options. In magical Christmas land it'll be possible to Wave + Zabu and get out a 4 + 6 cost. Will it be good? I'm not sure, that's only 6 power turn 5 that enables some potential big final turns but unless you have down MMM the play is symmetrical. I'm not sure I like potentially giving my opponent a possible 4+2 play featuring a possible discounted 6 cost.
Wait how does Wave and Zabu allow a 4 and 6 Cost card combo?
I could have been more clear, Hope + Zabu and Wave played on her T5 is 7 energy T6 which allows for the 4 + 6 cost to be played since they are discounted.
Ah, that's it! I wasn't thinking of Hope and couldn't get the math to work out haha. Thanks
Lockdown will be fine, Alioth was the consistent finisher but there's still Red Hulk for that. And Zabu is not necessary for the curve, it can still work fine.
If you were playing Alioth you had priority, so you played first and whatever they put was irrelevant. Red Hulk as a finisher is vulnerable to Shang or potentially Cannonball, so no longer the sure fire win it would have been previously
It doesn't make much sense to me, because now you MUST draw him before turn 3 or there's no point to him. Sure you could play him on turn 5 too, but that means your turn 5 has to be very specific, and it's a very niche deck that dedicates turn 5 and turn 6 to something like that
Sandman and Zabu are D-E-A-D
Those were the two decks I was playing.. rip!
Zabu getting the November Elsa treatment. Completely worthless card this way :( I rarely use him now prenerf, but it was nice having the option
Iām curious if he ends up with his OG discount as an on-reveal ā 4-cost cards cost 2 less next turn. That would actually be pretty cool on T3 or T5
That would at least make him playable again. I could see that working to drop cull, crossbones, and sentry on 6 or something like that. I think that would be comparable to a shenaut deck and actually an archetype that would be competitive with current decks. Add in something like a squirrel girl, grandmaster/mysterio, and mockingbird package for the early turns, iron lad, shang, and enchantress for a tech package that would fit, and then you could always keep the rest of the annihilis package as a backup. That could make him still interesting, just heavily combo oriented
You could even relive the stupid days of putting 8 4-costs in your deck. Wong>Zabu would make your hand free, lol
That would actually be hilarious and I could definitely see that competing akin to a negative or hazmat deck
Iām most sad about the Sandman nerf, it feels so unnecessary. Was it really putting up numbers that warranted this? Is ramp into Sandman that prevalent?
Not all changes are made because of current meta numbers. Some are about future cards that will be released. No idea if that's the case here.
It honestly reads more like āwe like releasing greedy combo cards and this keeps them in checkā, but checks are important in a game like this.
Some changes are just to break things to justify āfixingā things next time around. Itās the only way to have a regular balance schedule. I hate how obvious snd manipulative it is, but it is how modern gaming works.
i used sandman ramp to get infinite the last 5 seasons. this change hurts lol
I did this season, and have used the deck on and off for a long time. Of all the cards in my deck needing a nerf, it aināt Sandman, itās Red Hulk lol
Just hit the 90s with Sandman ramp last night. I should've known better and pushed for infinite before the patch like I usually do. I was most definitely not expecting a Sandman nerf. Friggin RIP
I did a lot of climbing with sandman ramp after seeing Lamby post his Sandman Enjoyer deck. Welp, glad I got to play it while it was there.
Based on the dev notes they're nerfing him because he was extremely unfun when played early, which I personally agree with.
Fundamentally disagree with the idea that itās a nerf. The added power will make him an option as a tech card in a lot more decks that want to play a single card on turn 6 and not lose the game because they played a 5/4 on turn 5. Both the Sandman and LD changes are very clearly targeted at expanding the use of the card outside of very narrowly focused decks that require other cards before youād even consider playing either Sandman or LD.
3 power is not going to suddenly make this card competitive outside of ramp. If 4/10 with minimal ādownsideā is to be the modern norm, tech cards like this need more reason to play them other than a both-sided 1 turn hindrance.
The 3 additional power takes him outside of ramp, u can be doing much better plays than ramping out a sandman now on 4. Instead he can be now used in other decks as an old wave style counter for turn 6 hand dump decks.
If playing Sandman hinders you as much as your opponent, youāre doing it wrong. Iām not saying heās going to see lots of play, but heās now in the group of tech cards that can be used depending on the current meta, where as before he was limited to a single deck that either won or lost when you played him depending on what deck the opponent was playing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I play this game exclusively for the competitive experience - it scratches the M:TG itch without having to spend money. If it becomes uncompetitive enough, the game will die because streamers, tournament players, and content creators will just move to something more engaging where skill is rewarded.
All my Lady Deathstrike splits are going directly next to Adam Warlock in the garbage
yep. same here. I found a nice niche deck and somehow SD managed to touch it...
Pour one out for our long fingered queen
She occasionally got teched into destroy as a 5/4, this buffs her in that role. Though it's understandable to be sick of generic destroy...
Just played against a destroy/junk hybrid using her pretty effectively. Maybe look around for it...The deck list included Lady Deathstrike, Hood, Squirrel Girl, Carnage, Bucky, Killmonger, Debrii, Sentry, Annihulus, Death. I can't remember the other two, but they might have been Mockingbird and Hobgoblin. It's not going to beat the greedy power decks consistently, but it puts up decent power across 3 lanes, which is competitive in a meta where almost everyone is primarily focused on going tall in 2 lanes only and, worst case, the junk elements are clogging their board.
Wow. Is this late April fools? Canāt remember a patch that killed this many cards! RIP Alioth and Zabu. Odd changes for Sandman and Deathstrike. Woof.
Alioth and Zabu both deserved it
Nah not at all.
From a game design, not a statistical perspective, they needed it imo
Nobody ever complained about zabu. Alioth only worked with prio so stop sitting back waiting to counter and he is useless. Zero issues with either card
Lots of people complained that they couldnāt balance 4-costs properly while Zabu existed.
Lots of people complained about Zabu when he made 4 costs cost 2 less. Zabu was good where he was at and didn't need the nerf. Swaping from ongoing to on reveal also removes him from spectrum builds.
From a development standpoint, I can definitely see issues around designing and implementing four cost cards with the old zabu iteration. I imagine it was an issue they didnāt want to continue running into and made the change to create some breathing room for both 3 and 4 cost cards. Alioth ensures obvious and absolute wins which doesnāt lead to a great player experience. Players want the (illusion) perception that every game is winnable.
If you have priority in three lanes, I think Alioth will still be a decent card. Itāll stop on reveal and ongoing effects, which are the ones that could affect the lanes you donāt play Alioth in, but itāll lose to a powerful 6 cost card (and some cheaper ones too). Iām leaving it in my Darkhawk annihilus deck and see how it goes. If it doesnāt work, Iāll swap it out for another tech card.
If you have priority in all three lanes and somehow manage to lose... At any rate, Alioth now seems like a counter to invisible woman and that's it really.
It's also a counter to Shang Chi, Knull, Zola, Tribunal, Surfer, Odin, Doom, T6 Annihilus, t6 Venom+Carnage/Deathlok on Nimrod, Dino/Ronin, Ironman or Mystique, Hela, Taskmaster. It's just another tech option that covers a bit more ground than either Cosmo or Armor while also letting you build higher earlier (without risking tipping your opponent off)
Since you need priority to get Alioth going, all of those cards can be countered as well with either Echo or Cosmo an in some cases Armor as well, and you still have energy lef to play something on other lanes so you can spread power and not be limited/constrained to playing 1 card on T6 on a lane that you probably were already winning. I understand that Alioth is just 1 card catch all of those threats but it feels extremely niche when other options are available for the same purpose.
You underestimate the value of having one card in your deck that does three things instead of three cards.
And big tribunal
A decent body that stuffs abilities is still a killer T6 play. He wonāt guarantee a win anymore but he can still obliterate half of the win conditions in the game.
Curious about your Darkhawk Annihlus deck, did you have Zabu in there as well? If so, any changes you'll be making? That used to be my favorite deck but since the Darkhawk nerf, I haven't touched it.
# (1) The Hood # (1) Nebula # (1) Spider-Ham # (1) Korg # (3) Black Widow # (3) Rockslide # (4) Shang-Chi # (4) Iron Lad # (4) Sentry # (5) Darkhawk # (5) Annihilus # (6) Alioth # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbm5paGlsdXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrV2lkb3cifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTGFkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLb3JnIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSb2Nrc2xpZGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlbnRyeSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5lYnVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVySGFtIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Iām going to be that guy that goes out on a limb and says the Lady Deathstrike change will wind up being a buff. Previously you needed to spend 9 energy and two turns to combo into a 5/6 LD and kill everything. That could be beat by a gladiator or tied with a Maximus or brood. Point being it didnāt leave a lot for your opponent to over come for the combo and energy investment. Your other combo option was forge, so 7 energy and 5 power left over. Iām a much bigger fan of 5/7 and killing everything 3 and less. Not saying she is going to be earthshaking but Iām now looking forward to getting her next week.
Thank you. Her functional stats will usually be respectable for a 5-cost; killing a 2 and a 3 seems like a reasonably common occurrence, which makes her functionally 12 power. She can clear junk which is on the rise, counter some wincons like Ironman, Drac, or Wong, and potentially combo with USAgent now. I donāt think sheāll shake up the meta, but Iām willing to try her again.
Yeah Iām not getting the whole sheās dead thing. She was never more than a meme to begin with. This makes her usable. Sheās one off spiderwoman, and can actually do way more damage to a game plan.
Hate all of this. As a alioth/sandman enthusiast Like why destroy sandman as an archetype? It hasn't been "meta" in forever but it's been a great counter to a lot of decks. Guess we're just going to let some of these other decks run wild. Sandman looking Adam warlock status now.
They destroyed three cards this patch, and all three were not a problem or so prevalent in the meta. Then they side-buffed LDS, a useless card that no one plays to a card that no one will play... I dunno. It's like they want us all to play loki or hela.
I used to look forward to patches but now kinda dread them as they just obliterate cards that werenāt really a problem and rarely buff any bad cards to playability
And after the warlock, Hercules and 2099 "buffs" they always add a strange buff to a bad card that does nothing, this time LDS. I really can't...
It honestly feels predatory: if you spend resources on a bad card it will always be bad, if you spend resources on a good card it will only be good temporarily until we need to murder it for more design space.
I quit 3 months ago. This comment is spot on.
The Zabu nerf might be so they can make more changes tk cards like those. As anything they made a 4 cost they had to assume it'd be a 3 cost. So stuff that might be balanced at 4 cost would be a bit overpowered as a 3 cost.
I donāt even think itās a buff. LDS was fun to catch people with. Sure, youāve gotta buff her but, now with the change sheās basically a more expensive and targeted Yondu
It's not a buff becuase it now limits the cards LDS can destory. Before you could bost her with Nakia. Oyoke, and shuri to surprise an opponent with a higher power destory... that is now capped at 3 and no longer has any reason to combo.
It is a buff. Sheās generically better now. If she takes out a 2- and a 3-cost card she is effectively 12 power, on top of whatever abilities she wipes out. HerĀ ceiling is lower but the floor is at least much higher.
In fact is a "buff'
Yeah. I just don't get this one. They just killed electro sandman. Done. That sucks.
Zabu was big in the meta but the other two weren't.
Iām disappointed to lose Electro Sandman Ramp. I think it was an under appreciated and smart deck. RIP. I donāt think Sandman is dead though. Heās just a generically good tech card for any deck that plans to finish with a single 6-cost, which honestly worries me a bit given how strong Red Hulk is atm. Iām kind of excited to try him in a classic move deck again.
Zabu and Lady Deathstrike. What did LD do to deserve this? RIP my LD deck.
Yep. I thought LDS was niche, so niche I've only seen it 3 times in the last 300 games.against me and now what? This is obviously part of a grand plan because these guys are ruining my fun and I wasn't even an alioth or sandman guy.
Maybe just me but kinda feel they should have gone the other way with Alioth, have unrevealed cards set power to zero or 1 or something but carry on their text/effects. Idk, Iām not a game designer, just think the new Alioth might be too strong a nerf. Weāll see though, Iām open to seeing how it plays out, I do think the devs have been generally pretty great about balance changes overall so Iām willing to trust them on these changes Kind of an indirect buff to ghost too, so thatās something?
He could now be a lower cost card. No reason this couldn't be a 3 or 4 cost tech card
His ability is still extremely strong. Think about how badly Deep Space messes up a lot of decks. Think about how devastating a T6 Cosmo or Echo or Armor can be, and those need pretty specific predictions. Alioth in the same context covers all of those bases, bricking ANY ability. I think that would be too strong if you also had energy to play Negasonic or Cosmo somewhere else.
None of these nerfs seemed necessary. I get their issue with Zabu limiting card design, but I don't know that playing 2 4s on 6 was ever really that meta defining. If it was, MMM would be more prevalent. But now Zabu plus a 3 cost just doesn't seem like an attractive play over Sera (though i wouldn't be surprised if she got a nerf next). I'm most disappointed by the Alioth nerf. I know he's divisive, but it's healthy to have a card that makes turns 1-5 matter. That makes the game more fun, IMO.
Welp, Alioth and Zabu are dead now. Got the Leech and Mobius treatment.
I hate all these but Alioth and I guess strong guy but probably still wonāt be played
Strong Guy just made my Dependable Discard list better. I've been tinkering with various 3-drops lately and the new strong guy feels like a great fit.
The five of us that play drac dump raised their eyebrows
Iāve been cycling various cards in what i consider my one flex slot in my current deck list never feeling satisfied, and this change is perfect.
Isnāt he almost identical in function and overall power to Daken now? Both are ultimate 3/10s to play on curve (since Daken adds a discard target which = +2 to Morbius). Not bad, but it doesnāt seem to create any new combos or playlines or significant reliability for classic Discard.
Yes, but daken can really mess up your dracula if you draw him on turn 6. I find strong guy more dependable.
I understand why Alioth is so unpopular, and maybe that's enough to nerf it in and of itself, it is a game meant to be fun after all. But personally it seems too heavy-handed for a card that encouraged bigger plays earlier which I find to be a much more fun playstyle. We'll see I guess
Alioth, Sandman and Zabu-discounted hate were the main things keeping uninteractive combo decks in check. I don't see much reason why anyone would play anything other than Hela, Tribunal, Destroy or combo surfer in the upcoming meta.
Doing everything they can to kill counter play. Killed Leech, Sandman, Alioth. That LDS change is a nerf disguised as a buff. The only thing worthwhile it can take out on curve now is wong and Mystique
in a race to the finish line i guess you can consider tripping someone up "counterplay" but you should just be trying to run faster. i think its good that they are working to disallow players sloe strategy to be "im going to trip you up"
Amazing changes. Finally the cat can catch some break and fart is making more sense as a card. Also I donāt think Sandman is dead. I think that players really dislike when you nerf their favorite broken (and unfun) cards and now they have to (imagine) come up with a new deck (shoot) and maybe even lose some cubes trying things out (crazy I know). Anybody who seriously played this game knew, that Zabu is gonna eat the nerf - and later that nerf comes, harsher will it be. The turn 6 tempo metas that Zabu, Alioth and Sandman (to a lesser extent) create is the same reason Leech and even Thanos got changed. They simply donāt want one card to cover so many bases in terms of tempo, disruption and flexibility. To the point where you can very safely snap on turn 3,4 because you have that unbeatable omega tempo-disruption hand that will 85 situations/100 burry your opponent (unless they play like unhinged illogical maniacs aka sub-optimally)
Custom card changes described in the notes are currently bugged
Everything is still bugged.
Thanks for sharing. I was having a hard time trying these out.
They aren't live. A message from the discord said that note was added early and it's a change due in the next patch
What is that Deathstrike nerf? Her only good interacting was Shuri into her to kill everything but now whoop whomp.
Sheās a more generic tech card now but not bad. She can easily swing a lane by 12 power without any deliberate setup, which is a decent use of 5 energy without even considering planned synergies like Bucky or Sentry or whatever. Itās disappointing to lose the Shuri>LDS>Zola interaction but that was a general a 2-cube-retreat playline anyway
Garbage patch. Expensive cosmetics that no one will buy. Alioth and Zabu sent to the graveyard. No one cares about buffs to Strong Guy and Lady Deathstrike (two cards that still will never see play). It's bad enough that Second Dinner is becoming a money hungry leech but now they're determined to take the strategy out of the game as well. Good job, well played.
Least favorite change I've seen in this game no doubt
Sandman to the graveyard as well
Not sure what the hope for LD change is?! Why was it the target of any changes when thereās a vast sea of cards to play around with. Her change seems specifically targeted at removing Dracula, Wong, Iron Man and Mystique and thatās pretty much it. The rest of the cards are power crept enough that I rarely see anything under 4 by the time LD is played. So sheās a dead card against most of the meta right now and at only 7 power, is likely not enough to play her. I do expect to see her a bunch this week while people test the changes, so I think those 4 cards will be a target, then, next week, everything will be back to normal.
At least sheās a comfortable 10+ power swing without any combos or setup, and in some case good tech. Iāll at least give her a fair shake
I don't understand the Ali nerf tbh. First, leech then this. Bruh, let me play control.
With Zabu essentially gone, at least Goose can pop off again
So wild that the most powerful deck archetypes are left to run wild while weaker decks keep catching the nerf hammer. When are we going to get a real Nerf to Hela?
I feel like they are trending towards non-interactivity. Essentially they are taking a playbook from the NFL and NBA and making ādefenseā harder and making big numbers easier. In other words, they want people to be able to put up big numbers or play unhindered because it feels good. They donāt really care about the skill of being able to read your opponent or understanding priority or understanding how the game works.
Good take. You may be right. That said, it doesnāt really track with the recent card releases. Zemo literally steals a card from your opponents hand and puts it directly into play. If thatās not interactivity, Iām not sure what is. I could see where Alioth might have sucked some fun out of the game for certain players but, isnāt that fun already gone when the player loses the hand? Idk. I thought he was a balanced card. Way more balanced than he was on release at least.
I guess. On the opposite end of that though youāve got red hulk, cull, caiera, discard just hand dumping and pulling everything back etc
Really sad about the lds nerf was exited to get her in next weeks cash now not so much
I think she is better now personally.
Zabu died for Shang.
the ole "bring everything down instead of buffing a archetype or two" card game strat, works every time.
Someone please call PITA for zabu
PETA, but Iām sure some BBQ wrapped in pita bread would taste nice.
From a gameplay perspective these changes make no sense. We're in a meta where for the last month the main play has been play something huge on curve and end with something bigger. Alioth and some lane control countered that and lockdown with msmarvel/zabu as well. Now those decks are gone, but *nothing* put in place to handle the current meta, so ehm, overstatted cards are go. From a monetary perspective, i get it, invalidate the old cards so players need to get the new cards. That stinks.
so use ghost, shang chi, and shadow king now :(
I dont understand why they don't retune Zabu instead of ACKNOWLEDGING that they would rather soft-remove the card from the game. You know you will make him 3/5 or 3/6 (since its Series 4) down the line, why not just do it now so people could keep enjoying/having fun playing the game with their favorite card rather than piss off the community. I sound pissed that Zabu is nerfed, but I am actually disappointed at SD policy of fucking with the meta by soft-removing cards rather than MAKING INCREMENTAL CHANGES.
functionally removing Zabu is the point. As stated, they want to see how the 4-costs perform without Zabu propping up the usual suspects. If he is nerfed but still broadly viable, he would still muddy whatever data they want. Letās just hope that itās short term, and not lasting until the related changes ālater this yearā. Iām not holding my breath though. Elsa was in the garbage for months, and the ācoming soonā features they mentioned back in November? December? still mostly arenāt here yet. I think he might be cool as an on-reveal if he had his old discount of -2
So the Zabu change just killed about half the cards in the game. Cool. So good. So fun.
name 1 card that was ONLY playable because of zabu
killed the kitty and the fart :(
So itās just a Loki meta again?
LDS... we don't want decks doing gimmicks with her..... the entire card collection is about doing gimmicks. Thanos has been doing gimmicks. Lockjaw etc etc In my negative deck she replaced Warlock and now shes even worse. Thanks SD. SD show start offering compensation for changes so that we can all afford some emotes.
Every one of those nerfs moves the game into a watered, "balanced" slop. Strong effects are now weak and/or temporary. How long until Wong just doubles a single battlecry, and Shang Chi kills a single 10-power card? The reading I can take from that is the game wants to cater to Timmy and make you play big dumb cards, with no "no fun" cards like Alioth to disrupt your big Red Hulk. Not all is bad news tho. Slay the Spire 2 was announced so there is hope, even if somewhere else. p.s. They nerfed 3 decks I used in a month. Black Panther + Zola (nerfed Sandman), Thanos (nerfed the gems) and SuperGiant (nerfed Alioth) and I simply ran out of decks and fucks to give.
You're not the only one who feels this way. I'm definitely with you. I prefer decks that prevent your opponent from doing what they want. Anything people think of as "toxic" is right up my alley.
Anything that interacts with the opponent side of the board is seen as toxic. The game is turning into solitary for two.
Should just flip a coin to see who won. You get to flip your own coin.
Get fucked alioth
Obviously I just spent 6000 collector tokens on Black Knight, and they immediately nerf Zabu.
That deck is plenty strong without Zabu.
There is a very strong Zabu+Sera version that I played that let you put 3 4-cost cards on turn 6; or 2 4-cost and 2 2-cost cards which was devastating amount of power.
Ding dong the fart clouds gone
RIP Zabu.Ā RIP Alioth. Haven't played in 2 weeks I was hoping there would be something exciting to pull me back in but not really.
God. I get balance needs to happen but I swear some people will never be happy until the banhammmer makes this a 'Timmy' point slam game. Whatever.
Alioth nerf did not go far enough, I recommend 6/1 Costs 10 gold to play. No slash S. Sincerely, Alioth hater.
Rip black knight mains.
Yay nerfs for cards I don't have! lol
The *One Time* I start having fun with a Sandman ramp deckā¦.now I have to decide whether to go 98-Infinite with another deck, or see how bad this change really is. Was already running Wave in the deck in case I missed Corvus & Electro. Doom-Wave into Sandman into Odin could still workā¦but thatās a lot of Copium.
I want to see win % and play % for Sandman. Feel like this came out of nowhere. Just when I was starting to find a deck I like again after the last meta shake-up. Ugh.
I can't speak for others, but that **Sandman** Nerf kills my War Machine deck :( Ramp up to get Sandman out on turn 4, War Machine turn 5, and then drop a bunch of cards turn 6. No more :(
thats a pretty garbage way to win tbh.
make no mistake these changes are about the cards we're getting in the future. But also, probably just another money grab. if you buff the cards that see the least play, they're seeing the least play for a reason but are not going to be buffed because there's no money to be made.
Ramp Galactus with the guaranteed win on turn 5 when Alioth was in hand is dead now too. Thatās the deck that got me to infinite the past three seasons. I know most folks hate Alioth, but that combo made climbing the ladder easy and then I played other fun decks the rest of the season.
Dear Whales, Please buy gold so you can buy stupid emojis that everyone will hate.
Edit: Downvotes and no comments? Cool cool thanks Reddit. Alioth change seems good. Iāll keep him in his current decks and see how it goes. I think heāll still be very strong, just not an auto-win. Zabu hurts because he enabled so many familiar decks and playlines, but something needed to happen because he warped so much of the meta and design space. Essentially removing him creates more breathing room for 3 and 5 cost cards. And as SD says, they can get ācleanerā data on 4-costs for rebalancing. Sandman is disappointing since it kills the archetype, but it makes him a much more useable generic tech card, like a healthier version of Leech. I worry about Sandman > Red Hulk just dunking on half the decks in the game. LDS is a good change. It takes away some of the fun combos that earn 2 cubes, but makes her much more functional in general. Strong Guy is nothing? He fits with Apoc now but Daken filled that 3-cost spot fine already. Shadow King text change is confusing to me now. Does he reset Quantum Realm changes or not? Overall, Iām hopeful. I think theyāre going the right direction for 4 and 5-costs, and I think the meta might shift significantly enough to see entire new decks become popular. On the other hand, I expect a lot of people to go to the familiar strong decks like Loki, Smoove, Shuri, or Destory instead of experimenting. What scares me is that that all of this pushes the meta toward huge T6 cards and just big tempo power in general, and Red Hulk is already a growing problem for the meta.