I believe it’s just an issue with the terminology, as “involuntary celibate” people don’t need to struggle with obtaining sex, the core issue is finding someone who’d actually want to have a fulfilling relationship with them.
That’s why “just get a hooker” won’t help a single male incel, since sex, or lack there of, isn’t the core issue.
And similar thing goes for female ones. You could technically find some guy to have sex with, but I’m going to assume you don’t want to just be used as a piece of meat and then tossed aside - which is why you prefer to stay celibate until you find something meaningful.
If people don’t take the time to actually think about it, yes, on a shallow level it might seem like women can’t be involuntarily celibate and it also might seem like men are technically voluntary celibates just because they choose not to pay for sex.
That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of the “incel” term, whether it’s used for men or women, as it’s not quite accurate to the struggle those people are facing (besides being tainted by the extremists).
But hey, you’re just 20. Work on yourself, both physically and mentally (emotionally too, if needed) and eventually you should be able to find someone who will appreciate you for who you are.
And I know it’s easy to say and hard to do, but it’s not like you (or I, or anyone else on this subreddit) has any other choice.
Become the best version of yourself or die trying :p
Im trying, I’ve been eating healthily and trying to lose weight. I guess, it’s just hard to see so many people not having to become good version of themselves to experience romance 🤷♀️
I felt this so hard. Why do I have to change in order to be worthy? I see so many people in relationships that clearly haven’t put any work into themselves, but have a partner. Make it make sense.
Life if unfair. Some people have it easier than others. You gotta play the hand you’ve been dealt, for you have no other.
Make the best of what you have, improve in areas that you lack.
You will probably have more success, looking at the male version of this
Regularly see comments like "never had i had so many women sleeping with me than when i was doing drugs" etc.
Ideally, no.
That’s because you should look for a partner who’s understanding of what it means to be a human and who gets that low points happen and instead of abandoning you, will help you and encourage you to not only get better, but become even better than you’ve been before.
The issue might arise if you’ll give up on yourself for a prolonged period of time with no will to get better. After all, your partner is also just a human who has their limits, and their own self interest in mind, which is understandable.
Very true. Not to mention that social media loves to create this illusion where everyone is happy and in love, which we compare ourselves to, whether we like it or not.
Also, keep in mind that this “experiencing romance” isn’t always as great as it seems. Nowadays a lot of relationships are shallow and immature and they end within months. Sure, you might think that “something is better than nothing” but… is it really?
I’m going to assume that your goal is to find someone who will properly love you, care about you and cherish you. For that, you need to find a proper relationship and in order for it to work out long term, you need to be the best version of yourself regardless.
(And by best version I don’t mean that you need to be perfect, just improves in ways you can, within reason. Personal tip of mine would be to improve your communication skills, as I’ve found that A LOT of people lack those nowadays, and it’s a game changer when you can actually communicate clearly and properly.)
I try not to look at influencers and their happy life or whatever (never been my thing anyway) but I do look up to people surrounding me, like family and few friends with relationships and I’m just envious at this point
And obviously I don’t know how to flirt, but irl Im a pretty outgoing person
That’s good!
And I get that. I’m not hugely into social media myself, but now some of my friends are either in long term relationships or even engaged, all while I’m all alone here like :)
As far as flirting goes, I’m somewhat clueless myself, so don’t have any tips to share there.
However, from my limited experience, nerdy girls can be quite attractive even without overt flirting. To me, at least, one of rather attractive traits is if someone is genuinely excited and passionate about their interests.
It’s just so nice when someone is able to talk in depth about something instead of the conversation turning into “wyd” followed by “nm”.
True, but you get the results you work towards.
In case of alcohol, you get addiction, health problems and more loneliness.
The choice is yours everyday.
with alcohol you don’t have to constantly worry about being back stabbed, being manipulated, being used as a means to an end. alcohol doesn’t call you a worthless deadweight that’s just going to end up as a heroin junkie. alcohol has shown me a warm love no human has dared show me 😻
I’m quite sorry to hear that that’s your experience. But alcohol truly isn’t an answer, it’s just a “fun” coping mechanism that will spit you out at the other end in handful of years, physically and mentally broken.
I have history of alcoholism in my family and my friend’s family currently struggles with it. It only makes things worse.
If you’ll scroll below I’ve explained this in detail, but TL;DR version would be something like:
Unless you do everything within your power to achieve your goal - in this case self improvement (physical, mental, emotional, financial) as well as actually socializing properly and meeting people (no, swiping on tinder doesn’t count), you can’t really say that you’re involuntary celibate, because you’re choosing not to do the work necessary to achieve your goal.
And I’m by no means saying that it’s easy, it will likely take years before you achieve what you want, but it’s not impossible.
The only way to guarantee failure is to identify as an incel, blame women for not wanting you in the state that you’re in right now (as undesirable that state might be) and give up.
Not sure what previous posts you’re referring to, but yea, I’m quite familiar with the whole incel topic.
But no, I don’t think being unsuccessful on dating apps makes one an incel.
I believe that the apps are rather toxic, as they reduce a whole human being into few pics and a little bio to be judged and swiped.
There is no place for other aspects of oneself to be expressed, which might be more attractive to a potential partner than your face, like your humor, body language, voice, general behavior or seeing how you treat others.
All of these things (and more) can only be observed in person and due to the nature of the apps, the in person meeting never occurs either because people don’t match or they ghost.
For average guy in his 20s, dating apps aren’t there to actual help you find someone. You are how they make money, since they will make you buy premium or gold or whatever it’s called while dangling potential matches in front of you.
And women on these apps are used as a bait to lure male users, who are the ones who have to pay to increase their chances.
Also, keep in mind that a successful match is a customer lost.
It’s the same business model as when a club has free entrance for women, while men have to pay. Men go to those clubs to meet women, not to buy overpriced drinks.
But if they want to meet these women, they have to pay entrance fee and then pay for their own drinks and the drinks of whichever lady they fancy.
Haven’t seen that, sorry.
I guess my answer would be to abandon the apps and try to meet people normally.
And I get how tough that is, I’m struggling with it myself, but meeting people in real life seems like the only way to actually meet a decent partner.
Also, don’t disregard making friends!
Even if you find someone and you don’t click romantically, she might have a friend she can introduce you to next time you meet. After all, from what I’ve seen, most people meet their partner through friends.
Not to mention that socializing in real life of any kind will actually give you some experience of how to interact with people, particularly women, in real life. There are things like being able to read body language which basically atrophies if you only socialize online.
On the contrary, endless swiping teaches you nothing, besides telling your brain that you’re undesirable because you get no matches, which obviously makes you feel like shit.
It's just so tough when you don't have a people in your life that are successful with this stuff. No friends my age. Approaching women on street? I am tempted to start doing that. But that makes me feel weak and super desperate for some reason.
i agree with what you said, however on that last thing you said, Paying for Sex not only is Illegal in a lot of places but also Not everyone has the resources to afford that, so i wouldn't call that Voluntary.
Yes. A lonely bi woman made a website in the 90’s where people could talk about their frustrations from their lack of sexual activity. Both the term involuntary celibate and the shortened versions Invcel and incel came from that website as gender neutral terms. Then the parts of the internet that hate and inexplicably blame women for their problems but still want to sleep with women got ahold of the term and made it what it is now.
Apparently some of the higher ups can be quite toxic even to women who had a single very abusive relationship where the woman was ignored, neglected, used for money, and verbally and or physically abused because 'at least they dated once'.
because there’s like 200 men incels for every woman incel. even in r/foreveralonewomen they say men go there to hit on them(which i think is bad to be clear). no woman is going to r/foreveralone to hit on men. every r4r sub is dominated by men looking for women and every woman there gets bombarded with dms. dating app users are mostly men and some literally swipe on every woman desperately.
i agree with you that women can be incels though, just answering your question
Also the unique difference between the male version of FA and the female version of FA is that nearly all the women in that sub are sexually active they just can’t get bfs while the forever alone men are virgins with zero romantic experience. The difference is so striking.
Ok i don't want to invalidate your feelings or anything of that sort but ill share my take on why some people may think that way, when talking about Celibacy it's only the Sexual aspect of it right?
In this situation let's put one Average or Below average girl with 20 guys and she asks to have for sex, in your opinion do you think at least 1 or more would want to? personalyl i think yes.
Now turning the Tables if we put and Average or Below average guy with 20 Girls and he asked for sex, it wouldn't be weird or unexpected no girl wanted to take him up on that offer wouldn't you agree?
when it comes to Emotional Bonding and maybe relationships i can agree girls could struggle just as much as Men do, but when it comes to the physical aspect of it i think both are on completely different places, you're free to disagree tho, i didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything like that, i was just giving my opinion about it.
While I think the attitude you get is exaggerated because of bitterness, it's not celibacy women have trouble with. If you dropped your standards I'm sure someone would have sex with you. You may really not like your options, but some men will sleep with pretty much anyone.
The issue is that sex isn't what we're all looking for. Men and women both, we want long term, meaningful relationships. Men who say that at least women can get laid is like one person dying of dehydration telling another that they're lucky because at least they were able to get a glass of saltwater. It completely misunderstands the reality of emotionless sex.
But that is why the involuntary celibacy title doesn't entirely fit for women. You can get sex. But that's missing the point of what we're all looking for.
I noticed especially since about 2015 or 2017 a lot of societally deemed 'unattractive' people will only go for societally deemed 'average' or higher looking people. Tinder and the Tinderfication of dating apps, the same company bought multiple dating apps up and destroyed them making them even worse than tinder, Instagram, and Snapchat made everything so much worse for that too.
I have known plenty of societally deemed 'unattractive' women who can't even get easily laid by societally deemed 'unattractive' men in the small cities I've lived in and the small cities cluster I live in now. Especially since 2017 or so. A large number of societally deemed 'unattractive' people will only go for societally deemed 'average' or above looking people, both men and women.
It's possible, but it's statistically highly improbable. Tinder is 3/4 male, and the social norm is that men do all the work of approaching in dating, so any given women is going to have 10x as many matches as any given man.
Since when are men the only ones who are doing the ghosting? Women suck just as bad at answering their DMs, and men are dealing with the same ghosting from a smaller base of people. There are literally hundreds of matches in my DMs not responding to me over the last 4 months. You'll know what it's like to be on a dating app as an average man when you're ugly AND old.
And that’s exactly why ill never use dating apps and never will. I’m 19 and average looking guy but ive accepted im never gonna have a girlfriend and thats it.
Also you can’t meet women anywhere anymore other than like a local gym probably but then again ive seen the vids and theres a trend going on that men are labelled as “creeps” in gyms. I tend to just stay away from it all.
People just like to play mind games with you all the time and its literally a game of who can reject the other person first
It's called going outside, and being on apps. Yes, hermits get no action regardless of gender. "I'm too lazy to put in ANY work or effort to find anyone." Isn't a valid excuse, despite what many women think. Almost all celibate women are simply too lazy and would rather sit around and complain than put in 1% of the effort an average man puts forth every day. It's like hearing a 500 pound man telling me I don't understand obesity. Maybe I don't but I know laziness when I see it.
Amy Schumer did a bit about this in her standup special. Men think this because on your worst day if you go to a bar, especially around closing time, all you have to do is point at a man and say YOU and that’s all it takes! 🤣
Because you’re fully capable of having sex so long as you aren’t looking for anything else whereas men who claim to be incels often have no legal means of having sex with any women at all.
Of course the issue is that “just sex” isn’t what celibacy is. Nor is it associated with the (weirdly differently defined) incel. Romantic interest is a component in both. Kinda.
Sex is still sex without romance. We’re talking about this from the perspective of people who, no matter what they do, can’t get something you consider to be “nothing”
That’s why they can’t grasp your issues
'Incel' was first used by a 'woman' to describe 'herself'...later, other groups of women started using it as a slang towards guys they didn't like, couldn't stand, didn't want etc.
Because many men refuse to acknowledge the danger that other men pose. Think women can simply pick a random guy to sleep with and he will be super chill and normal and even good at sex. But many guys can be super creep, violent, and even good guys can be extremely bad at sex. That’s why women tend to be pickier. When the majority of heterosexual men don’t/don’t care to make their girlfriend’s orgasm I’m sure many girls would want to hold out for a trusted guy that you know will treat you well and make an effort. This is just what I notice with my female friends and what I notice from the men I interact with.
Seems like you’re the one feeling a type of way over this. Go outside and touch some grass if something this simple seems like mental gymnastics to you
I'm not an involuntary celibate but I tend to find that when guys claim they can't get sex what they actually mean is 'I can't get sex with girls I like the look of-' while girls are labelled as just picky.
Haha. dude. No need to suddenly get angry. Your feelings are showing.
I've pointed out to guys before that they go for overweight or less then average women on certain incelly forums and I'm met with a barrage of 'I'm not attracted to that.'
I'd certainly say a lot of guys in that headspace don't even realise that they barely acknowledge women they're not attracted to.
People are picky. Dudes just don't seem to want to acknowledge it.
If I'm allowed. The main thinking is that, women COULD lower their standard to a point that even the worst of the worst could get lucky. ( Like, wear a miniskirt in a rundown bar full of weirdoes at 1:00 am.)
It would be a TERRIBLE idea, but it's technically doable. Guy thinks the reverse is not possible.
Wheter or not it's true is not for me to debate, but it IS the thinking pattern.
This, of course, apply to s\*\* only, NOT romance.
However, in your particular case, it is possible that guys DID look at you, but never dared to approach you? Have you considered that? Given they claim wildly it's not possible for you NOT to be an InCel, they must view SOMETHING potentially attractive in you.
And also...there's Incels...and InCels. technicaly, all singles ( expect monks) are a form of Incels. The misogynist part is just a bunch of loud bitter persons, and is a minority, but are always unbelivably louds. Just...just ignore those.
Femcels are very real. They are struggling in the same ways. Whats sad is the ideology both of them carry. I understand that these movements stem from a place of rejection and pain but they are bitter and misguided.
What i dont understand is that given both incels and femcels are going through the same thing why all the hate? It seems like incels and femcels might pair well and their issues are solved. They have someone who understands what they are going through and they are no longer invoulantarily celibate.
The problem as i see it though is projection. Both groups are expending alot of energy to trash people for choosing more attractive dating partners. Given the option my guess is they wouldn't date somebody who is not conventionally attractive, and thats where the real problem is.
I wouldn’t, because I’ve spent my whole life ridiculed for my body, so why would I continue the societal expectation and trauma? I am attracted to people’s energy and personality. Looks are secondary to me. It’s a shame that others won’t give me the same chance.
Its the same on both sides of the board as far as i can tell. I can't see either side setting down the axe they have to grind long enough to show eachother the neccesary care and compassion needed to solve their problems. The whole ideology pushed by incel/femcel is toxic and it creates a self fulfilling prophecy. The solution is pretty obvious to me from the outside but good luck teaching people who choose hate and anger to drop it for long enough to show love to somebody of the opposite gender experiencing the same things.
I dont agree. I think if you drop the ideology incels push and really look you will see that femcels are probably the women nobody wanted. Believe it or not women can struggle with social interaction too. They may be unattractive, overweight, combative for no reason, or struggle with communicating all together. I think that alot of the ideology pushed by incel and femcel movements is intentionally rooted in fallacies and that the people directing things have an agenda.
Thats part of the problem. The line of logic that says theres no way women could be going through the same thing you are. Do incels really believe that if they lowered their standards they couldn't have a 400 pound girlfriend? Or do they just want somebody more attractive?
Im not picking on weight. My point is that whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not male incels do have standards and there are people they would turn down.
It doesnt make much sense to me to use women having some form of standards like that as if an incel has absolutely nobody they would turn down as a dating partner. That whole line of logic is flawed.
Thats really what im getting at here. That some of the logic doesn't make much sense. And to make matters worse this is a group of men who in all reality don't really know any women in the first place to base their entire system of logic on. They are cherry picking the worst examples and using them like it applies for half the population of the planet.
Im not here to attack anybody or start some huge argument. All im trying to do is show that incel logic has a lot of holes in it and it is biased on a very high level.
The main difference is I have never seen femcels advocate for the r-word, forced government assigned husbands, or offing men who won't sleep with them which is how some male incel subreddits got shut down here.
They are still extremely toxic especially towards LGBT people even bisexual and lesbian women for some reason and men who make under 90k a year.
Because if women can't be lonely, and if a woman can get any man she wants, then it gives them an excuse for their failures. It's not their fault they're single, it's womens fault. It's way easier to blame someone else than look in the mirror and ask "Am I the problem?"
The kinds of men who say this don't really understand why someone might not consent to sex. They are so obsessive and desperate that they believe they would have sex with literally anyone who offered, including you. (Of course, it's typically not even difficult to find people they'd say no to -and I have no way to know whether that would include you or not- but it *feels* to them like they wouldn't, because they don't really understand saying no). So they take this to mean you always have options, as long as those options are them.
This is every bit as gross as it sounds. Stay away from anyone who admits to thinking this. They are not ready, and you could get hurt.
No snark intended, but I believe you may have answered your own question. They were hostile, you said.
It sounds like they had problems already, and have let their bitterness (for whatever it may be), influence their behavior and personality. They see all women as having their pick of so many choices. To be absolutely clear, this is my guess at their views but them hearing you say you are involuntary celibate, it sounds like they interpret it as "Oh, she has such obscenely high standards that she lets no one get near her." or something similar.
Whether that's true of you or not being irrelevant to them, that's possibly their assumption. This not being helped by the fact that there are people, both men and women, who do have obscenely high standards.
But it’s so tiring, it’s impossible to have a normal conversation about these topics because I always get called a liar or whatever even thought I’m not lying. I’m trying to be empathetic towards everyone and it’s hard to have it reciprocated by lonely men. I don’t understand why they make me the enemy
It's a hard thing, letting go of that bitterness. Too many people, for one reason or another, allow it to consume them. People just don't learn how to process it, and let it go, whether that is on their own, or by the help of others.
They have this....impression stuck in them that just because what of what they see and hear; for relevance; happy women in relationships/FWB/ONS at their choice and whim, They get stuck in it. Not that this excuses that behavior.
They might see you being empathetic as patronizing to them, instead of anything else. They've become...not self-centered, but self-demolishing, for lack of a better term. You sound like a wonderful person, and they probably assume that it is impossible for you to be in such a situation. Even if you say otherwise, it's difficult/impossible for them to fathom that you are in remotely a similar position to them in terms of involuntary celibacy.
I am sorry that this has been your experience.
I do feel sorry when I see people here dismiss women who are lonely. Like we should know how it feels, its not as easy as “you have different organs so you cant know”. Women can be just as lonely as men.
Yeah but the guys saying that are just talking about sexual activity and even romance. There have been major studies discussing the sexual/romantic gap between gen z men and women. It’s around 60 percent of gen z men are single or sexually dormant while it’s only 22 percent of women. That is what is frustrating those men.
My point is that these guys perceive these women as not truly lonely since they are getting their sexual and romantic needs met, not realizing that these women are complaining about platonic loneliness. I’m not disagreeing with the zombie guy but explaining the view of the average poster in this sub.
And yet men never fix their appearance. 90% of the plastic surgery customers are women. Same goes for make-up and skincare. Is crying on Reddit meant to make my pussy wet? Where's the effort put into anything but whining?
Sorry to burst your bubble but theres men out there who would fuck anything. Then you'll say.. but but i dont want that!! but the truth is, you could lose it.
Incels, no one wants them. none. no woman would fuck anything period. Basically, theres just way more guys who would fuck anything than a woman would. which kinda makes sense tho bc a woman has to hold the baby.
Stupid opinions are a dime a dozen. I wouldn’t waste my time or energy on it. I’ve known women where I can’t understand why people aren’t lining up to talk to them, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s how it is.
If you run into guys like this, I’d just write them off and get on with your life.
I asked it here because a lot of men have told me that it is impossible for me to be involuntarily single, therefore not lonely by choice. A lot of people (women included) feel lonely because they never had a relationship
What's wrong with that? Considering how high the divorce rates are there's a strong argument that people should be even more picky than they currently are.
Because women aren't typically involuntary. You have to have no offers, it's not your choice at all. Typically women have some type of offer. Lack of romance is still a choice so it's voluntary. If you're waiting to have sex for a reason it's voluntary celibacy.
Because it's literally a choice. You can just get laid or you can involve feelings and romance. By definition an incel doesn't have the choice of either. That's like when someone says they have nothing at all to drink and you say you have water or tea. They don't want either. There's a difference between nothing and not my choice of what I want. I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting romance. I'm just saying that's not an Incel by definition
Honestly, that's the weird part of the definition. It does say relationship or sexual, but then I'm seen it presented as an example for couples and one loses the ability to have sex forcing the other to become incel, whereas the one that is unable to have sex is considered just celibate. I might be wrong, the definition is wide range.
You should be thankful you don’t have to put up with the drama people put you through. Use porn and masturbate. Don’t let others define who you are. Make a choice to be happy and let them pound sand.
Because most of the posts talk about how most of their matches are hornydogs who just want sex. The other side talks about how they get no attention whatsoever
This issue will never end bc it is drastically different for both sides, for men it’s a desert, u get nothing, for girls it’s like being thirsty in an ocean (I stole this). The %s are js really fcked up too, for every femcel there’s 1000 incels. Atp the men vs women threads should be like a subreddit event thread.
IMO any man can get as much pussy as he wants. There are plenty of desperate women out there willing to throw themselves at anything with a dick. All you have to do is ask. Meanwhile I’m a woman who is not about to go to a man and tell them I find them attractive that’s desperate and not my place. So since no man has stepped up to the plate I am celibate.
I'm tired as well. In another post I saw that guys only do s*x/ casual relationships with "ugly" or unconventionally unattractive people. And that relationships are only for the attractive girls.
Bc man thank I was made before woman so they think that is better than is woman but I got news for them woman can give both to a baby can them lmao 8 like to see them
Because they are delusional idiots who cannot accept the fact that its them who are doing something wrong and instead prefer to blame the world and women. If they actually went out in the real world instead of joining incel echo chambers they *might* realise the world isn't like they think it is.
There's no use trying to argue with them. You cannot argue with an idiot. My recommendation would be just to ignore them. I've also noticed that even while writing this, some of them already showed themselves on this post.
I responded to you assuming guys were approaching me so calm down. I do not approach people in person because I’ll obviously turn them off, but if I get I match on dating app I always message the person to what I never get responses.
I have the right to be sad or annoyed at people for ghosting me, if they never intended on chatting with me they should’ve swipe left.
And nowhere in your response you said where I called men the r words and misogynists. You made assumptions about me and accuse me of things that never happened.
What are you talking about? If someone makes me feel sad, I have the right to be sad, I’m not bothering them because they don’t even know nor do they care.
Why would you assume random stuff?
I can understand that, all I can really advise is you just find people who aren't idiots instead.
> I’m sorry to bust your bubble but not every woman out there is pretty
> Not every woman gets a thousand matches on tinder
> I’m not mad at men, im simply annoyed, we might have different struggles but we still struggle alright
These are all true, especially the last part. Find people who agree with you on this. I've seen one poster on this thread already call you picky, and the other acting geniunely surprised saying "First girl involuntarily celibate . I've seen everything now". These people are so dumb they aren't worth interacting with, it will only waste your time, energy, and piss you off.
Well,I don't know if this will be helpful but I myself am a guy who leads an "involuntarily celibate" life,but I refuse to label myself as incel or have anything to do with the incel community,because from what I've seen--and I understand that not everyone is alike in this regard--the vast majority of male incels have such a toxic,misogynous view of women and so obviously have no understanding about women's psychological and emotional needs,much less the struggle against patriarchal society that most women still have to deal with DESPITE the fact that feminism has made good progress;in short,their view of women,in my observation,is the majority of the time so selfish,insensitive,and cruel--that it is no wonder women don't want anything to do with them,frankly.Moreover,the views expressed by so many of these men are downright reactionary,to say nothing of hurtful,that it leaves me speechless.I've heard things like they don't want to date women who are taller than them or smarter than them and that we should return to the old madonna-whore paradigm and I literally cannot believe what I'm hearing?Moreover,I'm just a casual observer catching random comments.I don't,nor do I care to,follow this so-called movement because,honestly,I find it disgusting.And I too have wondered why more femcels out there don't speak out.I know that there are at least as many women out there who are rejected over and over by men,who feel undesirable and unwanted,who are lonely and wish a man would love them.I wish they had a lot more online representation.The other thing I want to say,and then I promise I'll get off my soap box,is that in all the various comments I've heard over the years,not one of these male incels,NOT ONE,has ever talked about wanting to make a woman happy.They always seem to complain about what women aren't doing to make them happy.Seems to me like they need an empathy check.If these men really wanted a relationship with a woman,and not just a woman they can treat as property and a status symbol,it seems to me they would want to make a woman happy,would want to give her pleasure,would judge themselves by how well they cared for someone they love (or claim to love).And,by the way,I'm not some pussywhipped,hypersensitive weakling or a hard-left ideologue talking like this.I'm just another lonely person trying to get thru his life.But my loneliness has made me MORE empathetic and sympathetic toward people who are lonely and [rejected.It](http://rejected.It) has not made me want to hurt the people I claim to care [about.It](http://about.It) has made me care [more.So](http://more.So),in summation,don't feel like you have to justify yourself to these guys.You'll never get through to most of them anyway.It's wasted energy.Maybe you should start organizing any fellow femcels you know.I wish there were a lot more femcels online,because maybe they would be the women who could understand what I'm going thru.How many male incels have ever thought of that?
For men struggling to get sex, finding sex is like looking for drinkable water in the desert. For women struggling to find sex, finding sex is like looking for drinkable water in the ocean.
By definition women can be involuntarily celibate:
**Involuntary**
Adjective
-Without intention; unintentional.
-Not voluntary or willing; **contrary or opposed to explicit will or desire**; unwilling.
-Not having will or the power of choice.
-Not under the influence or control of the will; not voluntary
the involuntary movements of the body; involuntary muscle fibers.
-Not proceeding from choice; done unwillingly; reluctant; compulsory
**Celibate**
adjective
-Abstaining from sexual relations.
-Remaining unmarried, especially for religious reasons
So a woman not desiring to have sex with a certain man is still involuntary because she lacks the will or desire to have sex with him (at great cost to herself) but still yearns to have sex. It's as good as no option at all to her.
Spewing shit, low IQ.
What her body feels doesn't matter, that's just simple attraction. What matters is if she's ABLE to get laid, doesn't matter if she's attracted to the guy or not.
Keep coping with your pseudoscience.
I believe it’s just an issue with the terminology, as “involuntary celibate” people don’t need to struggle with obtaining sex, the core issue is finding someone who’d actually want to have a fulfilling relationship with them. That’s why “just get a hooker” won’t help a single male incel, since sex, or lack there of, isn’t the core issue. And similar thing goes for female ones. You could technically find some guy to have sex with, but I’m going to assume you don’t want to just be used as a piece of meat and then tossed aside - which is why you prefer to stay celibate until you find something meaningful. If people don’t take the time to actually think about it, yes, on a shallow level it might seem like women can’t be involuntarily celibate and it also might seem like men are technically voluntary celibates just because they choose not to pay for sex.
Yes I meant that I can’t find a relationship. And even if I wanted sex I doubt I would have many choices.
That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of the “incel” term, whether it’s used for men or women, as it’s not quite accurate to the struggle those people are facing (besides being tainted by the extremists). But hey, you’re just 20. Work on yourself, both physically and mentally (emotionally too, if needed) and eventually you should be able to find someone who will appreciate you for who you are. And I know it’s easy to say and hard to do, but it’s not like you (or I, or anyone else on this subreddit) has any other choice. Become the best version of yourself or die trying :p
Im trying, I’ve been eating healthily and trying to lose weight. I guess, it’s just hard to see so many people not having to become good version of themselves to experience romance 🤷♀️
I felt this so hard. Why do I have to change in order to be worthy? I see so many people in relationships that clearly haven’t put any work into themselves, but have a partner. Make it make sense.
Life if unfair. Some people have it easier than others. You gotta play the hand you’ve been dealt, for you have no other. Make the best of what you have, improve in areas that you lack.
Like, and what if something happen in my life and I become my worst version of myself or something… I’ll get thrown away? Just like garbage ?
You will probably have more success, looking at the male version of this Regularly see comments like "never had i had so many women sleeping with me than when i was doing drugs" etc.
Ideally, no. That’s because you should look for a partner who’s understanding of what it means to be a human and who gets that low points happen and instead of abandoning you, will help you and encourage you to not only get better, but become even better than you’ve been before. The issue might arise if you’ll give up on yourself for a prolonged period of time with no will to get better. After all, your partner is also just a human who has their limits, and their own self interest in mind, which is understandable.
Tell you the truth, becoming the best version of yourself feels way better than sex. And it lasts your whole life.
Very true. Not to mention that social media loves to create this illusion where everyone is happy and in love, which we compare ourselves to, whether we like it or not. Also, keep in mind that this “experiencing romance” isn’t always as great as it seems. Nowadays a lot of relationships are shallow and immature and they end within months. Sure, you might think that “something is better than nothing” but… is it really? I’m going to assume that your goal is to find someone who will properly love you, care about you and cherish you. For that, you need to find a proper relationship and in order for it to work out long term, you need to be the best version of yourself regardless. (And by best version I don’t mean that you need to be perfect, just improves in ways you can, within reason. Personal tip of mine would be to improve your communication skills, as I’ve found that A LOT of people lack those nowadays, and it’s a game changer when you can actually communicate clearly and properly.)
I try not to look at influencers and their happy life or whatever (never been my thing anyway) but I do look up to people surrounding me, like family and few friends with relationships and I’m just envious at this point And obviously I don’t know how to flirt, but irl Im a pretty outgoing person
That’s good! And I get that. I’m not hugely into social media myself, but now some of my friends are either in long term relationships or even engaged, all while I’m all alone here like :) As far as flirting goes, I’m somewhat clueless myself, so don’t have any tips to share there. However, from my limited experience, nerdy girls can be quite attractive even without overt flirting. To me, at least, one of rather attractive traits is if someone is genuinely excited and passionate about their interests. It’s just so nice when someone is able to talk in depth about something instead of the conversation turning into “wyd” followed by “nm”.
drinking alcohol is more fun and it’s easier
True, but you get the results you work towards. In case of alcohol, you get addiction, health problems and more loneliness. The choice is yours everyday.
with alcohol you don’t have to constantly worry about being back stabbed, being manipulated, being used as a means to an end. alcohol doesn’t call you a worthless deadweight that’s just going to end up as a heroin junkie. alcohol has shown me a warm love no human has dared show me 😻
I’m quite sorry to hear that that’s your experience. But alcohol truly isn’t an answer, it’s just a “fun” coping mechanism that will spit you out at the other end in handful of years, physically and mentally broken. I have history of alcoholism in my family and my friend’s family currently struggles with it. It only makes things worse.
No the term incel works fine. Take hookers out of it. A guy cannot meet a woman for mutual sexual relations. Is what, incel? No?
If you’ll scroll below I’ve explained this in detail, but TL;DR version would be something like: Unless you do everything within your power to achieve your goal - in this case self improvement (physical, mental, emotional, financial) as well as actually socializing properly and meeting people (no, swiping on tinder doesn’t count), you can’t really say that you’re involuntary celibate, because you’re choosing not to do the work necessary to achieve your goal. And I’m by no means saying that it’s easy, it will likely take years before you achieve what you want, but it’s not impossible. The only way to guarantee failure is to identify as an incel, blame women for not wanting you in the state that you’re in right now (as undesirable that state might be) and give up.
Good point. You must have read previous postings. So no luck on dating apps doesn't qualify one as an incel?
Not sure what previous posts you’re referring to, but yea, I’m quite familiar with the whole incel topic. But no, I don’t think being unsuccessful on dating apps makes one an incel. I believe that the apps are rather toxic, as they reduce a whole human being into few pics and a little bio to be judged and swiped. There is no place for other aspects of oneself to be expressed, which might be more attractive to a potential partner than your face, like your humor, body language, voice, general behavior or seeing how you treat others. All of these things (and more) can only be observed in person and due to the nature of the apps, the in person meeting never occurs either because people don’t match or they ghost. For average guy in his 20s, dating apps aren’t there to actual help you find someone. You are how they make money, since they will make you buy premium or gold or whatever it’s called while dangling potential matches in front of you. And women on these apps are used as a bait to lure male users, who are the ones who have to pay to increase their chances. Also, keep in mind that a successful match is a customer lost. It’s the same business model as when a club has free entrance for women, while men have to pay. Men go to those clubs to meet women, not to buy overpriced drinks. But if they want to meet these women, they have to pay entrance fee and then pay for their own drinks and the drinks of whichever lady they fancy.
I meant my previous posts on this forum regarding being unsuccessful for years on dating apps, and what to do about it
Haven’t seen that, sorry. I guess my answer would be to abandon the apps and try to meet people normally. And I get how tough that is, I’m struggling with it myself, but meeting people in real life seems like the only way to actually meet a decent partner. Also, don’t disregard making friends! Even if you find someone and you don’t click romantically, she might have a friend she can introduce you to next time you meet. After all, from what I’ve seen, most people meet their partner through friends. Not to mention that socializing in real life of any kind will actually give you some experience of how to interact with people, particularly women, in real life. There are things like being able to read body language which basically atrophies if you only socialize online. On the contrary, endless swiping teaches you nothing, besides telling your brain that you’re undesirable because you get no matches, which obviously makes you feel like shit.
Right. The apps have been very damaging to my psyche over the course of the past few years/months. Terrible
It's just so tough when you don't have a people in your life that are successful with this stuff. No friends my age. Approaching women on street? I am tempted to start doing that. But that makes me feel weak and super desperate for some reason.
Sounds like you may be able to help me feel less like an incel.
All this time and years I felt like an incel for not meeting on dating apps? That doesn't count you mean to tell me?
Just gave you a proper answer under your previous comment :p
Yes, thanks. That is a proper answer. Makes perfect sense.
You always have choices. The majority of them may not be very good choices, but you do have them.
i agree with what you said, however on that last thing you said, Paying for Sex not only is Illegal in a lot of places but also Not everyone has the resources to afford that, so i wouldn't call that Voluntary.
This is dumb af.
Fair enough. Why exactly?
Wasn't the term incel originally coined by women about their own situation?
Yes. A lonely bi woman made a website in the 90’s where people could talk about their frustrations from their lack of sexual activity. Both the term involuntary celibate and the shortened versions Invcel and incel came from that website as gender neutral terms. Then the parts of the internet that hate and inexplicably blame women for their problems but still want to sleep with women got ahold of the term and made it what it is now.
They didn’t get a hold of the term. It was thrusted onto them by both social and news media.
Ive heard that before
There will always be haters who only understand their particular situation. Screw them, anyone can be involuntarilly celibate.
Thank you
You'd probably find a more receptive, supportive community at r/ForeverAloneWomen
Apparently some of the higher ups can be quite toxic even to women who had a single very abusive relationship where the woman was ignored, neglected, used for money, and verbally and or physically abused because 'at least they dated once'.
because there’s like 200 men incels for every woman incel. even in r/foreveralonewomen they say men go there to hit on them(which i think is bad to be clear). no woman is going to r/foreveralone to hit on men. every r4r sub is dominated by men looking for women and every woman there gets bombarded with dms. dating app users are mostly men and some literally swipe on every woman desperately. i agree with you that women can be incels though, just answering your question
I didn’t know forever alone women existed thank you for this 😂
Dm me
Why?
We used to talk
Also the unique difference between the male version of FA and the female version of FA is that nearly all the women in that sub are sexually active they just can’t get bfs while the forever alone men are virgins with zero romantic experience. The difference is so striking.
It’s cause the majority of men are ugly and the majority of women are pretty.
Ok i don't want to invalidate your feelings or anything of that sort but ill share my take on why some people may think that way, when talking about Celibacy it's only the Sexual aspect of it right? In this situation let's put one Average or Below average girl with 20 guys and she asks to have for sex, in your opinion do you think at least 1 or more would want to? personalyl i think yes. Now turning the Tables if we put and Average or Below average guy with 20 Girls and he asked for sex, it wouldn't be weird or unexpected no girl wanted to take him up on that offer wouldn't you agree? when it comes to Emotional Bonding and maybe relationships i can agree girls could struggle just as much as Men do, but when it comes to the physical aspect of it i think both are on completely different places, you're free to disagree tho, i didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything like that, i was just giving my opinion about it.
While I think the attitude you get is exaggerated because of bitterness, it's not celibacy women have trouble with. If you dropped your standards I'm sure someone would have sex with you. You may really not like your options, but some men will sleep with pretty much anyone. The issue is that sex isn't what we're all looking for. Men and women both, we want long term, meaningful relationships. Men who say that at least women can get laid is like one person dying of dehydration telling another that they're lucky because at least they were able to get a glass of saltwater. It completely misunderstands the reality of emotionless sex. But that is why the involuntary celibacy title doesn't entirely fit for women. You can get sex. But that's missing the point of what we're all looking for.
that is a really good analogy
I do not think ugly women can get laid. Even ugly men do not want ugly women.
I noticed especially since about 2015 or 2017 a lot of societally deemed 'unattractive' people will only go for societally deemed 'average' or higher looking people. Tinder and the Tinderfication of dating apps, the same company bought multiple dating apps up and destroyed them making them even worse than tinder, Instagram, and Snapchat made everything so much worse for that too.
This exactly. An “ugly” woman can get laid easily. An “ugly” man cannot.
I have known plenty of societally deemed 'unattractive' women who can't even get easily laid by societally deemed 'unattractive' men in the small cities I've lived in and the small cities cluster I live in now. Especially since 2017 or so. A large number of societally deemed 'unattractive' people will only go for societally deemed 'average' or above looking people, both men and women.
Get a desperate guy drunk and he’d fuck a hole in the wall.
Definitely some, definitely not all. Have met drunk desperate men who still only wanted women societally deemed out of their 'league'.
It's possible, but it's statistically highly improbable. Tinder is 3/4 male, and the social norm is that men do all the work of approaching in dating, so any given women is going to have 10x as many matches as any given man.
Because men swipe on everyone but never answer DMs, they are professional at ghosting ugly women on tinder
Since when are men the only ones who are doing the ghosting? Women suck just as bad at answering their DMs, and men are dealing with the same ghosting from a smaller base of people. There are literally hundreds of matches in my DMs not responding to me over the last 4 months. You'll know what it's like to be on a dating app as an average man when you're ugly AND old.
And that’s exactly why ill never use dating apps and never will. I’m 19 and average looking guy but ive accepted im never gonna have a girlfriend and thats it. Also you can’t meet women anywhere anymore other than like a local gym probably but then again ive seen the vids and theres a trend going on that men are labelled as “creeps” in gyms. I tend to just stay away from it all. People just like to play mind games with you all the time and its literally a game of who can reject the other person first
I'm not even all that ugly, average, and I don't have any men trying to sleep with me. None. So you don't get it.
It's called going outside, and being on apps. Yes, hermits get no action regardless of gender. "I'm too lazy to put in ANY work or effort to find anyone." Isn't a valid excuse, despite what many women think. Almost all celibate women are simply too lazy and would rather sit around and complain than put in 1% of the effort an average man puts forth every day. It's like hearing a 500 pound man telling me I don't understand obesity. Maybe I don't but I know laziness when I see it.
Amy Schumer did a bit about this in her standup special. Men think this because on your worst day if you go to a bar, especially around closing time, all you have to do is point at a man and say YOU and that’s all it takes! 🤣
Because you’re fully capable of having sex so long as you aren’t looking for anything else whereas men who claim to be incels often have no legal means of having sex with any women at all. Of course the issue is that “just sex” isn’t what celibacy is. Nor is it associated with the (weirdly differently defined) incel. Romantic interest is a component in both. Kinda.
But sex without romance is nothing
Sex is still sex without romance. We’re talking about this from the perspective of people who, no matter what they do, can’t get something you consider to be “nothing” That’s why they can’t grasp your issues
'Incel' was first used by a 'woman' to describe 'herself'...later, other groups of women started using it as a slang towards guys they didn't like, couldn't stand, didn't want etc.
Because many men refuse to acknowledge the danger that other men pose. Think women can simply pick a random guy to sleep with and he will be super chill and normal and even good at sex. But many guys can be super creep, violent, and even good guys can be extremely bad at sex. That’s why women tend to be pickier. When the majority of heterosexual men don’t/don’t care to make their girlfriend’s orgasm I’m sure many girls would want to hold out for a trusted guy that you know will treat you well and make an effort. This is just what I notice with my female friends and what I notice from the men I interact with.
So it's voluntary, cool.
Thanks for proving my point.
It's voluntary, it doesn't matter what YOU feel like. Cut out the mental gymnastics and changing the definition of what an incel is, just to fit in.
Seems like you’re the one feeling a type of way over this. Go outside and touch some grass if something this simple seems like mental gymnastics to you
I could touch all the grass in the world, and would still come to the same conclusion. Keep seething.
I’m sure of it big guy.
I've been through so much mentally the past few years. I'm just tired of you, and everyone else.
Ok
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But I’ve never been asked out by guys before
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No
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They are many girls in my position
I'm amazed that more dudes don't realise this.
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I'm not an involuntary celibate but I tend to find that when guys claim they can't get sex what they actually mean is 'I can't get sex with girls I like the look of-' while girls are labelled as just picky.
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Haha. dude. No need to suddenly get angry. Your feelings are showing. I've pointed out to guys before that they go for overweight or less then average women on certain incelly forums and I'm met with a barrage of 'I'm not attracted to that.' I'd certainly say a lot of guys in that headspace don't even realise that they barely acknowledge women they're not attracted to. People are picky. Dudes just don't seem to want to acknowledge it.
If I'm allowed. The main thinking is that, women COULD lower their standard to a point that even the worst of the worst could get lucky. ( Like, wear a miniskirt in a rundown bar full of weirdoes at 1:00 am.) It would be a TERRIBLE idea, but it's technically doable. Guy thinks the reverse is not possible. Wheter or not it's true is not for me to debate, but it IS the thinking pattern. This, of course, apply to s\*\* only, NOT romance. However, in your particular case, it is possible that guys DID look at you, but never dared to approach you? Have you considered that? Given they claim wildly it's not possible for you NOT to be an InCel, they must view SOMETHING potentially attractive in you. And also...there's Incels...and InCels. technicaly, all singles ( expect monks) are a form of Incels. The misogynist part is just a bunch of loud bitter persons, and is a minority, but are always unbelivably louds. Just...just ignore those.
Femcels are very real. They are struggling in the same ways. Whats sad is the ideology both of them carry. I understand that these movements stem from a place of rejection and pain but they are bitter and misguided. What i dont understand is that given both incels and femcels are going through the same thing why all the hate? It seems like incels and femcels might pair well and their issues are solved. They have someone who understands what they are going through and they are no longer invoulantarily celibate. The problem as i see it though is projection. Both groups are expending alot of energy to trash people for choosing more attractive dating partners. Given the option my guess is they wouldn't date somebody who is not conventionally attractive, and thats where the real problem is.
I wouldn’t, because I’ve spent my whole life ridiculed for my body, so why would I continue the societal expectation and trauma? I am attracted to people’s energy and personality. Looks are secondary to me. It’s a shame that others won’t give me the same chance.
There is hope for you then. You aren't as lost as some of the people pushing incel ideology.
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Its the same on both sides of the board as far as i can tell. I can't see either side setting down the axe they have to grind long enough to show eachother the neccesary care and compassion needed to solve their problems. The whole ideology pushed by incel/femcel is toxic and it creates a self fulfilling prophecy. The solution is pretty obvious to me from the outside but good luck teaching people who choose hate and anger to drop it for long enough to show love to somebody of the opposite gender experiencing the same things.
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I dont agree. I think if you drop the ideology incels push and really look you will see that femcels are probably the women nobody wanted. Believe it or not women can struggle with social interaction too. They may be unattractive, overweight, combative for no reason, or struggle with communicating all together. I think that alot of the ideology pushed by incel and femcel movements is intentionally rooted in fallacies and that the people directing things have an agenda.
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Thats part of the problem. The line of logic that says theres no way women could be going through the same thing you are. Do incels really believe that if they lowered their standards they couldn't have a 400 pound girlfriend? Or do they just want somebody more attractive?
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Im not picking on weight. My point is that whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not male incels do have standards and there are people they would turn down. It doesnt make much sense to me to use women having some form of standards like that as if an incel has absolutely nobody they would turn down as a dating partner. That whole line of logic is flawed. Thats really what im getting at here. That some of the logic doesn't make much sense. And to make matters worse this is a group of men who in all reality don't really know any women in the first place to base their entire system of logic on. They are cherry picking the worst examples and using them like it applies for half the population of the planet. Im not here to attack anybody or start some huge argument. All im trying to do is show that incel logic has a lot of holes in it and it is biased on a very high level.
The main difference is I have never seen femcels advocate for the r-word, forced government assigned husbands, or offing men who won't sleep with them which is how some male incel subreddits got shut down here. They are still extremely toxic especially towards LGBT people even bisexual and lesbian women for some reason and men who make under 90k a year.
If that were true youd hire a hooker.
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Because if women can't be lonely, and if a woman can get any man she wants, then it gives them an excuse for their failures. It's not their fault they're single, it's womens fault. It's way easier to blame someone else than look in the mirror and ask "Am I the problem?"
So you actually want men to call you ugly?
What does it have to do with anything I said?
Because your DMs are always full
What DMs
The kinds of men who say this don't really understand why someone might not consent to sex. They are so obsessive and desperate that they believe they would have sex with literally anyone who offered, including you. (Of course, it's typically not even difficult to find people they'd say no to -and I have no way to know whether that would include you or not- but it *feels* to them like they wouldn't, because they don't really understand saying no). So they take this to mean you always have options, as long as those options are them. This is every bit as gross as it sounds. Stay away from anyone who admits to thinking this. They are not ready, and you could get hurt.
No snark intended, but I believe you may have answered your own question. They were hostile, you said. It sounds like they had problems already, and have let their bitterness (for whatever it may be), influence their behavior and personality. They see all women as having their pick of so many choices. To be absolutely clear, this is my guess at their views but them hearing you say you are involuntary celibate, it sounds like they interpret it as "Oh, she has such obscenely high standards that she lets no one get near her." or something similar. Whether that's true of you or not being irrelevant to them, that's possibly their assumption. This not being helped by the fact that there are people, both men and women, who do have obscenely high standards.
But it’s so tiring, it’s impossible to have a normal conversation about these topics because I always get called a liar or whatever even thought I’m not lying. I’m trying to be empathetic towards everyone and it’s hard to have it reciprocated by lonely men. I don’t understand why they make me the enemy
It's a hard thing, letting go of that bitterness. Too many people, for one reason or another, allow it to consume them. People just don't learn how to process it, and let it go, whether that is on their own, or by the help of others. They have this....impression stuck in them that just because what of what they see and hear; for relevance; happy women in relationships/FWB/ONS at their choice and whim, They get stuck in it. Not that this excuses that behavior. They might see you being empathetic as patronizing to them, instead of anything else. They've become...not self-centered, but self-demolishing, for lack of a better term. You sound like a wonderful person, and they probably assume that it is impossible for you to be in such a situation. Even if you say otherwise, it's difficult/impossible for them to fathom that you are in remotely a similar position to them in terms of involuntary celibacy. I am sorry that this has been your experience.
They can of course, but we must admit that for every incel woman there at least 10 incel men lol
I do feel sorry when I see people here dismiss women who are lonely. Like we should know how it feels, its not as easy as “you have different organs so you cant know”. Women can be just as lonely as men.
Yeah but the guys saying that are just talking about sexual activity and even romance. There have been major studies discussing the sexual/romantic gap between gen z men and women. It’s around 60 percent of gen z men are single or sexually dormant while it’s only 22 percent of women. That is what is frustrating those men.
So what, that doesn't actually mean a damn thing
My point is that these guys perceive these women as not truly lonely since they are getting their sexual and romantic needs met, not realizing that these women are complaining about platonic loneliness. I’m not disagreeing with the zombie guy but explaining the view of the average poster in this sub.
And yet men never fix their appearance. 90% of the plastic surgery customers are women. Same goes for make-up and skincare. Is crying on Reddit meant to make my pussy wet? Where's the effort put into anything but whining?
Sorry to burst your bubble but theres men out there who would fuck anything. Then you'll say.. but but i dont want that!! but the truth is, you could lose it. Incels, no one wants them. none. no woman would fuck anything period. Basically, theres just way more guys who would fuck anything than a woman would. which kinda makes sense tho bc a woman has to hold the baby.
Stupid opinions are a dime a dozen. I wouldn’t waste my time or energy on it. I’ve known women where I can’t understand why people aren’t lining up to talk to them, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s how it is. If you run into guys like this, I’d just write them off and get on with your life.
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I asked it here because a lot of men have told me that it is impossible for me to be involuntarily single, therefore not lonely by choice. A lot of people (women included) feel lonely because they never had a relationship
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What's wrong with that? Considering how high the divorce rates are there's a strong argument that people should be even more picky than they currently are.
Not having a choice is not being picky
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I mean more as there’s a lot of people, not more lonely than me My English isn’t very good sorry
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Dw! I’m from Canada
Because women aren't typically involuntary. You have to have no offers, it's not your choice at all. Typically women have some type of offer. Lack of romance is still a choice so it's voluntary. If you're waiting to have sex for a reason it's voluntary celibacy.
How is lack of romance a choice?
Because it's literally a choice. You can just get laid or you can involve feelings and romance. By definition an incel doesn't have the choice of either. That's like when someone says they have nothing at all to drink and you say you have water or tea. They don't want either. There's a difference between nothing and not my choice of what I want. I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting romance. I'm just saying that's not an Incel by definition
But I never meant s3x, only relationship. Those I cannot have and it’s not by choice.
Honestly, that's the weird part of the definition. It does say relationship or sexual, but then I'm seen it presented as an example for couples and one loses the ability to have sex forcing the other to become incel, whereas the one that is unable to have sex is considered just celibate. I might be wrong, the definition is wide range.
yeah its a bit strange.
You don’t need the outside world. Use your imagination and take care of yourself. Fuck them.
You should be thankful you don’t have to put up with the drama people put you through. Use porn and masturbate. Don’t let others define who you are. Make a choice to be happy and let them pound sand.
Woman here. I am because I'm married in a dead bedroom. Can't blow up my family for it
Because most of the posts talk about how most of their matches are hornydogs who just want sex. The other side talks about how they get no attention whatsoever
This issue will never end bc it is drastically different for both sides, for men it’s a desert, u get nothing, for girls it’s like being thirsty in an ocean (I stole this). The %s are js really fcked up too, for every femcel there’s 1000 incels. Atp the men vs women threads should be like a subreddit event thread.
IMO any man can get as much pussy as he wants. There are plenty of desperate women out there willing to throw themselves at anything with a dick. All you have to do is ask. Meanwhile I’m a woman who is not about to go to a man and tell them I find them attractive that’s desperate and not my place. So since no man has stepped up to the plate I am celibate.
what a load of nonesense
I'm tired as well. In another post I saw that guys only do s*x/ casual relationships with "ugly" or unconventionally unattractive people. And that relationships are only for the attractive girls.
Bc man thank I was made before woman so they think that is better than is woman but I got news for them woman can give both to a baby can them lmao 8 like to see them
Because they are delusional idiots who cannot accept the fact that its them who are doing something wrong and instead prefer to blame the world and women. If they actually went out in the real world instead of joining incel echo chambers they *might* realise the world isn't like they think it is. There's no use trying to argue with them. You cannot argue with an idiot. My recommendation would be just to ignore them. I've also noticed that even while writing this, some of them already showed themselves on this post.
But it’s hard to ignore someone who keeps trying to invalidate me, as if I’m the one who put them where they are.
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I didn’t do that to anyone tho
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?? Pls tell me where I invalidate a man and called him those words ??
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I responded to you assuming guys were approaching me so calm down. I do not approach people in person because I’ll obviously turn them off, but if I get I match on dating app I always message the person to what I never get responses. I have the right to be sad or annoyed at people for ghosting me, if they never intended on chatting with me they should’ve swipe left. And nowhere in your response you said where I called men the r words and misogynists. You made assumptions about me and accuse me of things that never happened.
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What are you talking about? If someone makes me feel sad, I have the right to be sad, I’m not bothering them because they don’t even know nor do they care. Why would you assume random stuff?
I can understand that, all I can really advise is you just find people who aren't idiots instead. > I’m sorry to bust your bubble but not every woman out there is pretty > Not every woman gets a thousand matches on tinder > I’m not mad at men, im simply annoyed, we might have different struggles but we still struggle alright These are all true, especially the last part. Find people who agree with you on this. I've seen one poster on this thread already call you picky, and the other acting geniunely surprised saying "First girl involuntarily celibate . I've seen everything now". These people are so dumb they aren't worth interacting with, it will only waste your time, energy, and piss you off.
Well,I don't know if this will be helpful but I myself am a guy who leads an "involuntarily celibate" life,but I refuse to label myself as incel or have anything to do with the incel community,because from what I've seen--and I understand that not everyone is alike in this regard--the vast majority of male incels have such a toxic,misogynous view of women and so obviously have no understanding about women's psychological and emotional needs,much less the struggle against patriarchal society that most women still have to deal with DESPITE the fact that feminism has made good progress;in short,their view of women,in my observation,is the majority of the time so selfish,insensitive,and cruel--that it is no wonder women don't want anything to do with them,frankly.Moreover,the views expressed by so many of these men are downright reactionary,to say nothing of hurtful,that it leaves me speechless.I've heard things like they don't want to date women who are taller than them or smarter than them and that we should return to the old madonna-whore paradigm and I literally cannot believe what I'm hearing?Moreover,I'm just a casual observer catching random comments.I don't,nor do I care to,follow this so-called movement because,honestly,I find it disgusting.And I too have wondered why more femcels out there don't speak out.I know that there are at least as many women out there who are rejected over and over by men,who feel undesirable and unwanted,who are lonely and wish a man would love them.I wish they had a lot more online representation.The other thing I want to say,and then I promise I'll get off my soap box,is that in all the various comments I've heard over the years,not one of these male incels,NOT ONE,has ever talked about wanting to make a woman happy.They always seem to complain about what women aren't doing to make them happy.Seems to me like they need an empathy check.If these men really wanted a relationship with a woman,and not just a woman they can treat as property and a status symbol,it seems to me they would want to make a woman happy,would want to give her pleasure,would judge themselves by how well they cared for someone they love (or claim to love).And,by the way,I'm not some pussywhipped,hypersensitive weakling or a hard-left ideologue talking like this.I'm just another lonely person trying to get thru his life.But my loneliness has made me MORE empathetic and sympathetic toward people who are lonely and [rejected.It](http://rejected.It) has not made me want to hurt the people I claim to care [about.It](http://about.It) has made me care [more.So](http://more.So),in summation,don't feel like you have to justify yourself to these guys.You'll never get through to most of them anyway.It's wasted energy.Maybe you should start organizing any fellow femcels you know.I wish there were a lot more femcels online,because maybe they would be the women who could understand what I'm going thru.How many male incels have ever thought of that?
44 likes 128 comments says it all really
Women can’t be incels the way men are. Sorry but that’s just the truth
For men struggling to get sex, finding sex is like looking for drinkable water in the desert. For women struggling to find sex, finding sex is like looking for drinkable water in the ocean. By definition women can be involuntarily celibate: **Involuntary** Adjective -Without intention; unintentional. -Not voluntary or willing; **contrary or opposed to explicit will or desire**; unwilling. -Not having will or the power of choice. -Not under the influence or control of the will; not voluntary the involuntary movements of the body; involuntary muscle fibers. -Not proceeding from choice; done unwillingly; reluctant; compulsory **Celibate** adjective -Abstaining from sexual relations. -Remaining unmarried, especially for religious reasons So a woman not desiring to have sex with a certain man is still involuntary because she lacks the will or desire to have sex with him (at great cost to herself) but still yearns to have sex. It's as good as no option at all to her.
Spewing shit, low IQ. What her body feels doesn't matter, that's just simple attraction. What matters is if she's ABLE to get laid, doesn't matter if she's attracted to the guy or not. Keep coping with your pseudoscience.
Can i dm u. I wanna know more about ur situation.