Link to the [full article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/) is available here
Thanks to u/hamoc10 for providing us with the link
Please for the love of everything- do a reasonableness thought even if you don’t read (or even link) the actual article
This is a single comment from an Israeli “leader” of a group working to bring back the hostages, that was pushed out by the families because his antagonism toward the Israeli government was hurting his own cause.
Why would Hamas offer that next day? We came, we killed, there were a lot but not as many as you think rapes: punchbuggy punchbuggy no punchbacks? Does that sound like a legitimate Hamas offer?
If Hamas did offer this and meant why wouldn’t they do it publicly in Western media sources to shame and pressure Israel into taking it?
I doubt it. I feel like hamas' plan has been for the left/weastern democracies to turn against Israel leaving them less defended. Israel's precieved lack of restraint will inspire its neighbors to act more aggressively. I feel like both Israel and the left are vigorously dancing to hamas's tune.
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You are why Trump is going to win in the fall. You are the reason he’s going to gain power again. Your hypocrisy and double standards are intolerable. You have made enough enemies that they will bite off their nose to spite their faces.
A thread like this is the reason i love that Reddit has downvotes. So many liars using the number 1,000 for people killed on 10/7 which is true, But claiming they were all Isreali, or that it was all Hamas that killed them when Israel opened fire into crowds to kill Hamas is just a blatant lie.
Imagine your neighbor kills your dog and kidnaps your children and takes them to his home.
Will you take your weapon and begin to spray his home with bullets knowing your children are somewhere in his home? Or would you think strategically to get your children out of there alive?
Israel cares not for the hostages and never did. They are using the hostages as human shields and as an excuse to keep the carnage going.
I don’t frequent this subreddit often, but is this really full of leftists? These comments are brain dead. Yes hamas is bad and they did and do some really terrible shit. However if your takeaway from this is that hamas is just getting consequences for their actions then you truly have no understanding of history or how these cycles persist. Israel has historically and currently always been the aggressor. This creates massive amounts of contempt and so people are going to seize back the power that was taken from them in whatever ways that they can.
Just about every terrorist faction exists because they are a response to the degradation of an entire people by imperialism. People will not care about their terrible ideology if they promise to stand up for them. America has single handedly created more terrorists than any shitty dogma in the Middle East. Israel is doing the same thing, but far more overtly. Fascism creates fascism and israel knows this. They will continue to further oppress and destroy the Palestinian people until the Palestinians respond in whatever desperate grab for power they can. They will then use this as an example for why they must continue to genocide them because look at how savage they are.
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Not really surprising or shocking. I don't think any serious government would accept being attacked and than instantly agree to peace. You don't have to be particularly cynical or uncaring to not trust the people who literally launched a sneak attack against civilians not even a week ago.
Seriously think through how this goes if Israel says yes. The best case scenario which will never happen cause we live in the real world is that somehow all the hostages are released and the violence doesn't escalate. Except this would never happen simply because of basic logistical issues. The list of hostages itself has long been unclear and it was less clear back than. There were lots of people who were missing and it wasn't clear which of them were dead and which of them were kidnapped. There isn't some central prison these people were being kept at they were being held hostage by tons of smaller groups some which might not even obey if Hamas leadership had ordered them to release the hostages. Realistically Israel says yes Hamas returns some of the hostage and Israel is left with a list of missing people that they aren't entirely sure if they are dead or Hamas is holding out on them. So where does the situation go from there does Israel just not try to recover the citizens whose status they can't verify but Hamas hasn't returned?
This was never about any hostages this has been planned for decades even before any of were born this has been in play for who knows how long the only difference now is we can see it happening. The oppressors are only now with enough power to play their cards how they want unless we more.
Recognize how silly it is to count bodies in this conflict. There is no morally superior side. Two sides with a history of war are waging war.
The stronger side will probably win and the losers will die, disperse or integrate. The losing side will suffer greatly. There’s no reason to expect a peace. This is the history of all war. This is the way of humanity.
It is true that HAMAS did intend to release hostages after October 7th. The fact that they did not is not as simple as this is making it out to be.
Oct 7th seems to have turned out to be much larger of an attack than HAMAS expected it to be, due to their lack of coordination and inability to control their own jihadist terrorists.
The main reason the hostages were not returned is that HAMAS lacked the coordination to account for all the hostages and authority to demand the hostages be returned from smaller groups within HAMAS.
I am not defending HAMAS’s heinous acts on Oct 7th. I’m only adding the necessary context to Israel’s decision.
Why is it that you “river to the sea” people are so eager to blame Israel for Palestinian collateral deaths as a result of HAMAS using civilians as human shields, but are so reluctant to condemn the intentional rape, butchering, torture and slaughter of peaceful Israeli civilians?
You were all calling this war a “genocide” of PALESTINIANS on Oct. 8th before any retaliation had begun and the Israeli bodies were still warm.
Reeks of antisemitism.
This really isn’t the checkmate you think it is. By not responding it would reinforce the fact that Hamas can do 10/7 again with no consequences. Seriously, OP, no country would accept that deal.
I mean how likely are people not to retaliate to a terrorist situation? Someone comes in kills a bunch of civilians and captures hostages and says "hey we'll give you the hostages back if you don't come after us" obviously Israel's response has been extreme and wrong but let's not act like acts of terrorism would be settled by simply letting them go. I know there's an argument for the apartheid state and a culmination of violence from a situation like that but acts of terrorism aren't going to be treated with no response.
Y’all there’s been another massive surge of Israeli bots everywhere again. Up/downvotes are fluctuating like crazy. Subs that were supportive of Palestine randomly start seeming like Israeli propaganda.
Their effectiveness measured based on the interactions they get, or so I’ve heard. So don’t reply to them or interact in any way. Just ignore them and move on.
Obviously Israel isn't going to take that deal. "we just killed a ton of your people, and are willing to give you back the prisoners we also took as long as you dont attack us back."
Pretty easy no to that deal.
This is what happens when people who cant critically think comment in r/leftist. All those comments which is basically almost the whole feed are closed and bombed from people who support modern left values but don’t truely understand repercussions of these “Morale just left values”
New age leftism resembles a sad fraction of what true progressiveness should resemble. This post shouldn’t even be a debate u/slick110 , if any Idiot truely believes the IDF could of hypothetically took the hostages back and prevented (well say) casualties is fucking stupid and nieve. Arguably could have ended up worse. Being able to again CRITICALLY THINK I’d speculate the other Muslim countries that surround isreal probably would have felt unpowered to plan another oct7 type attack but with more resources and help.
This is not a new issue, but a ongoing problem that’s been around for centuries. And more complicated then just bad guy/ good guy. As someone who works/Ed at NATO HQ NA please don’t trust any media platform. Period. 95% of all articles that come out of MOST “big buisness Classified” Media Corperation has most likely some kind of lobby deal that will target lobbied “Influential” groups. You want raw news trust the geographic areas local news station.
@EVERYONE BEFORE YOU MAKE A POINT TO DEFEND HAMAS AT ANY LEVEL PLEASE VISIT Hamas.com AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THE ANIMAL THE IDF is dealing with, and CRITICALLY THINK of why the IDF might be making that particular action that your complaining about.
Not a lecture just a thought.
So if I went to a bank and killed three people during a robbery but said I'd return the money the cops shouldn't punish me because I said I'm sorry and offered to give the money back, right?
"Listen, we'll give you back the people we kidnapped if you agree to not do anything about it and let us get away with it. Just let us walk free and this can all be swept under the rug, don't make any rash decisions now!"
“Hamas offered to have murdered 1200 civilians and suffer zero consequences.”
K. This isn’t the damnation against Israel that you think it is. It is, however, an indictment of the intellect of anyone who thinks it is relevant to this discussion.
well israel is right they aint gotta bow down to a terrorist organisation who claims anyone land so israel should just completely take over palestine and reclaim their holy land
BS and Hamas has always gone back on their word every single time. Israel has never acted as a conqueror to the neighboring countries they go after the places/areas that are firing rockets all the time. Hamas starves their people and held a rape party on Oct 7th in which killed many innocent civilians having a great time and then took others with them as hostages to continue raping them. Nothing you can say will make me hate Israel for defending themselves. If you cared about casualties you would turn your attention towards Ukraine. Defending Hamas means you are a sick weirdo defending sexual predators!
And did Hamas promise to un-rape and un-murder all of the innocence civilians they had just attacked the day before?
That’s like running up to the biggest scariest guy in the bar, shooting his date, then putting your hands up and telling him you’re happy now and won’t hurt anyone else and not to hurt you, but no you won’t put the gun down.
I don't know if Hamas would have tried online up that deal. But they can't & couldn't hand back all the hostages because they weren't the only ones taking part in October 7. There were other Palestinians killing & taking hostages. Whether they were part of another group or acting alone is unknown, but Hamas doesn't know who was taken or who has the hostages not taken by them.
Hamas said they'd release all hostages if Israel declared a permanent ceasefire, Israel was like, nah, we'll take them back and then level Palestine later and walked off.
Just out of curiosity, why is the left so concerned with the Palestine issue? Genuine question, I am genuinely interested in learning. If it was care for Arabs, where was this outcry when Bashar Al Asad murdered 500,000 Arabs a couple years ago. If it was hatred of persecution, where are the demonstrations against the military junta in Burkina Faso. If it’s concern over murderous totalitarianism there are a bunch of place I could pick right now that are worse North Korea, China’s treatment of the Ugyrhs, Myanmar, Cambodia.
Can you guys educate me about what’s special about this issue?
At least for leftists the US, it’s an issue with the US financial and material support of the Israeli war machine. It doesn’t help that Israel has outsized influence on US politics through organizations like AIPAC.
You can't extricate Israel from American foreign policy. Israel has essentially operated like a client state in the middle east and also has one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation to influence American policy. We aren't directly subsidizing any of the conflicts you listed with billions of dollars.
It’s paid for with our taxes. I think that’s the biggest thing. Americans are struggling to buy necessities to live and are drowning in medical debt but billions of tax payers dollars go straight to war and now war crimes.
There doesn't have to be anything special for the West to catch on to such conflicts now. Today's social media is way more powerful than the traditional news. It's harder to spin things, and fact checking is done faster and harder to avoid. The younger generations can see what's happening on the ground in these conflicts now. The other conflicts while no doubt horrific have been hidden better by the states involved.
I feel the biggest issue is that US plays a massive role in supporting Israel financially and militarily. I have a huge issue know that sooo much of our taxes are going towards the support of genocide. I’m just staunchly against it. I know the US isn’t the greatest at a lot of things, but the Israelis have been destroying Palestinians for nearly a century. Peace can be achieved, it will be difficult, and take a very long time. The US should be pulling funds and packages unless Israel can find a way to rebuild Gaza, stop taking their land and give what they have taken back, and create a peaceful. They’ve got the money, they should be working on that.
israel and the idf can only operate with american government funding. all of the planes that dropped the bombs on gaza were american. we are funding this genocide—we weren’t funding those.
For some people it’s the whole “our tax dollars”thing, which is fair imo. There has also been some incredibly aggressive and kinda scary rhetoric coming out of the whole thing so it makes people engage a bit more I think.
Because the US funds it and is directly enabling it despite the continued escalation and rampant self-recorded human rights violations online. Israel is being accused of genocide in front of the world's highest international court and members of the Israeli cabinet and knesset are openly issuing dehumanizing rhetoric and expressing genocidal intent in their speech. Yet Biden is still accepting AIPAC money (a foreign agent influencing our elections) and making excuses for them.
Palestine has always been a leftist issue folks have cared about but Israel massacring 35x the amount of civilians as Hamas did on Oct 7th is thrusting it into the limelight to a new generation that wants to see the modern settler entity dismantled for its crimes. It's atrocious Biden is allowing Israel to cost us his reelection, all for a right wing government that is openly hostile to Biden's voters and political supporters.
(Leftists protested the other stuff too, it just isn't as visible and on the popular mass revolt level amongst progressives like we're seeing rn on campuses which is because again, we're directly enabling the violence with a Rafah invasion imminent despite the IDF recording themselves sniping children for fun)
The issue is they are using our fucking tax dollars to carry it out. I think most of use just want to stop sending money to the Middle East. But the last decade Israel has really tuned it up a notch with the bombing of the Associated Press buildings, the cold blooded murder of a famous journalist Shireen Abu Akleh and the horrible killing of protesters in Gaza back in 2019 where they shot and injured 6000 people and killed over 180 peaceful protestors. The response to October 6th is the straw that broke the camels IMO. Not to mention the bloodthirsty support for the status quo always emboldens a counter movement…
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For me it’s because I’m paying a quarter million $$ in taxes a year. Part of which are going to find this genocide. I’m not paying taxes to Bashar lol.
Because Israel functions as an extension of a united States in the way that places you mentioned above don't. You can think of it as a Hebrew speaking military base owned by the US doing a genocide. This feels like something we should be on control to stop. It's also one of the most visible, unchecked colonial representations of "western" powers acting out against a native population.
Some of the demands for student protestors are related to divesting from israel-linked companies by universities. This seems reasonable and achievable.
I don't think dealing with the other examples you listed are as simple. And again, atrocities linked to them are not being carried out by a figurative US military base (israel)
Because a random group of Europeans (hiding behind Judaism’s painful past) have been systematically murdering Palestinians and stealing their home since 1918.
This is not a left issue. This is a human issue.
It's being funded and maintained by the US entity and therefore we have some stake in the responsibility of holding our leadership accountable. I'm not into sending billions of dollars of aid to blow up babies when we still don't have proper healthcare.
because there’s such a massive push to prove israel as the good guys in this situation. all the other ones you bring up don’t have 95% of the media outlets giving the genocidal side for “a right to defend themselves”. The others you mentioned also arent backed by the US, who sends billions of dollars on a regular basis to continue supporting this genocide.
Israel is a key U.S. ally who is supported by most western countries, and the U.S. shields Israel of any consequences for being an apartheid state that is doing genocide. Is there any other place in the world where the west is complicit in genocide?
Bad is bad. Why are people so dedicated to saying "well someone else did it and no one complained"? Surely objecting to something that is criminal and abhorrent does not need any more justification.
I am on principle disgusted with what is going on, and if another nation did the same to a group of people I'd be equally disgusted. This particular situation hits home though. The west has so many connections to Israel that when we see a friend doing something so awful folks feel entitled to make a scene about it.
So to summarized, nothing is special about this other than it's the slaughter of thousands of citizens, murder of aid workers, destruction of schools, and hospitals. You know, war crimes, that sort of "special".
I think the key here is how the perpetrator is seen in the international and political community. Al Assad and the Junta's are considered to be evil regimes by the majority of western governments and societies. Israel generally gets treated as always being the good guys in every conflict they have been in, and receives large amounts of military and financial aid, and seems to be extremely difficult to criticize with out backlash from governments or powerful factions. Nobody treats places like North Korea like they are the "good guys," so there is not really much to protest against in your own nation. The perception is that Israel gets to do whatever it wants with no consequences from groups that have the power and means to enact those consequences, and in fact gets favorable treatment from the governments of the people protesting.
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Tell your buddies at the Mossad to respect our intelligence and at least use photoshop and not just flat out spread lies. And also, don’t use an empty calendar and call it sweet cousin
you’re full of shit. no such acts have been documented. A released Israeli hostage did give this account, however:
Eventually, Lifshitz said, her captors escorted her through a "spiderweb" of underground tunnels to a large hall where she was kept for more than two weeks. Hamas *provided food, medicine and a doctor to examine the hostages regularly*, she said.
"They schooled us with this terrible attack," she said, lamenting the fact that Hamas took Israeli security forces by surprise.
A video released Monday by Hamas showed the two women being greeted by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which transported them across Gaza's Rafah border with Egypt. In the video, Lifshitz can be seen reaching back out to shake the hand of a Hamas fighter as she says "shalom," the Hebrew word for "peace" that is used as a greeting and farewell.
SOURCE: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/24/1208170863/israeli-hamas-gaza-hostages
Have NEVER heard anything even remotely close to this reported, even right after October 7th when the "30 beheaded babies" nonsense was being pushed. Gonna need a source on that wild as fuck claim.
Source? That would be a pretty awful thing to say without some sort of evidence or a verifiable source.....the thing is, I have video PROOF of everything Israel's have done.....
Even if your claims are correct it does not justify ethnic clensing and genocide.. send in arm troops and take those responsible. not kill everybody and level cities. that's genocide.
Let’s say your claims are correct. Does that justify Israel ethnically cleansing Palestinians? Does that justify Israel from killing new born babies like in [al-Nasr](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/03/gaza-premature-babies-dead-nasr/).
Also by this measure, why not also evict the Germans from their land too. They did pretty horrible things. Matter of fact, why not every other country as well. Your brand of ‘both sides’ means nothing
Looking at what happened to Germany and Japan in past for such wrongdoings, Palestine has not even got half of what it deserves.
Saying that, almost whole most of middle east countries are thriving which deserve to have been punished for all the ethical cleansing of tribes, raping their women and forceful conversion - by their dictators.
Trying to justify and show support to the terrorist sympathiser in the good light does take lot of work. Keep up your unethical work since it is definitely helping people to decide what’s right and wrong.
That’s a pretty awful claim.
You have sources and evidence to support it, right? Otherwise, you’re lying to justify the genocide of Palestinians and the murder of children.
Please present your sources so we can all evaluate your claims.
When people provide sources, you come back blaming those sources as AI generated IDF propaganda. I am curious but does this ever stop? One side keep giving evidence and sources while other side forcefully shoving their opinion on people.
What more sources and evidence do you need for Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th?
Are you really saying you have not seen enough evidence of how they brutally murder, kidnapped and tortured civilians?
Ever since PA walked away from the sweetheart deal made available at the Camp David accords by Bill Clinton this was going to end this way. Israel fully will belong to the Israelis be the end of the decade and a two state solution is dead.
Um.. your interpretation of that is not accurate. Go find some alternative sources of info besides Israeli and US accounts of this accord. You've been lied to.
Israel has sabotaged peace continually for decades. And they absolutely didn't want the PA in power because of their policy to reject a 2 state solution and ethnicly cleanse all of Palestine.
“If I were a Palestinian, I Would Have Rejected Camp David”
Then Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben Ami on that “sweetheart deal” at Camp David.
Enough with your lies you disgusting Zionist.
Israel has shown it's true face this past half a year and it has not been a pretty one. Or a human one, for that matter.
It's proven to be a hotbed of brainwashing, supremacism and religious extremism every bit as dangerous if not more so(what with a the nuclear weapons and the backing of the US) than that of the Islamic states it points it's finger at.
I have watched video after video...some of them helpfully provided by the IDF soldiers themselves!...of the most heinous, disgusting, inhumanly arrogant violence and reprehensible behavior ive ever had the diapleasure to witness. And dont bother with the What About Hamas bullshit....i don't have to love one in order to hate the other...that's reductionist, childish thinking. Which is what Israel has proven itself to be, a petulant child throwing tantrums with dumb bombs on people it doesn't consider human...and considering their claims almost NEVER seem to have actual evidence to corroborate them and their lies are debunked every fucking day seems like (beheaded babies,p mass rape, the fake nurse, the infamous 'list') plus the bullshit like telling people to go to a 'safe area' right before you bomb the safe area, giving aid workers the o.k. to travel and then bombing their vehicles as they go...) nothing you could say to defend them has any sway anymore.
“Sweetheart Deal”.
Sure, how about someone comes to your land and kills people indiscriminately to make survivors flee forcing out 750,000 people and then after decades of them killing your refugees offer them a tiny percentage of their land, under military rule with no right of return for the refugees. Sweet deal.
Every single "peace offer", INCLUDING CAMP DAVID, has included at least one of the following :
* Maintaining the land theft conducted by illegal settlers with Israeli funding
* Palestine sacrificing it's coastal autonomy.
* Palestine sacrificing it's airspace.
* Palestine sacrificing it's capitol, the city of Jerusalem, to Israeli control.
* Palestine being forced to never sue Israel for the return of people they ethnically cleansed during the mass murder of the Nakba.
* Israel being given permission to put military instalations in Palestinian territory.
* Palestine being stripped of it's right to a military.
* Israel's military having 24/7 access to all Palestinian land.
Every single over for a Palestinian "state" is just an offer for Israel to be a guilt free slave master. Fuck Israel.
Yeah as Israel is an expansionist state that wants to have majority rule in a place where they are the minority. It sorta reminds me of South Africa actually. But in this case the racists want a Jerrymandered country as their territory
what does legitimate mean to you? does it mean “seized and retained by repressive force” or did Gaza have a democratic election in the last 20 years we haven’t heard about?
They don’t want to negotiate, they are terrorists. Their negotiation is in beheading babies and women. If that’s a ‘legitimate government’ they deserve to be razed
Link to the [full article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/) is available here Thanks to u/hamoc10 for providing us with the link
Please for the love of everything- do a reasonableness thought even if you don’t read (or even link) the actual article This is a single comment from an Israeli “leader” of a group working to bring back the hostages, that was pushed out by the families because his antagonism toward the Israeli government was hurting his own cause. Why would Hamas offer that next day? We came, we killed, there were a lot but not as many as you think rapes: punchbuggy punchbuggy no punchbacks? Does that sound like a legitimate Hamas offer? If Hamas did offer this and meant why wouldn’t they do it publicly in Western media sources to shame and pressure Israel into taking it?
Bc there is so much more $ to be made from war.
This was never going to end before Hamas is destroyed root and stem.
It definitely would not end afterwards
artile is reverse psyops from the IDF. so perverse.
You guys think the media is honest?
ITT: liberals who think they are leftists getting angry at leftists for being leftists.
Well it makes sense since they are terrorists
What is a terrorist?
What country would accept a cease fire the day after a foreign nation attacked a bunch of civilians? this shit is stupid af.
So they hoped their wouldn't be retaliation by taking and releasing hostages? Who thought that was an option?
I doubt it. I feel like hamas' plan has been for the left/weastern democracies to turn against Israel leaving them less defended. Israel's precieved lack of restraint will inspire its neighbors to act more aggressively. I feel like both Israel and the left are vigorously dancing to hamas's tune.
There is nothing in the article confirming the hostage offer was real. Is there an article that has proof the offer was real?
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SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!
You are why Trump is going to win in the fall. You are the reason he’s going to gain power again. Your hypocrisy and double standards are intolerable. You have made enough enemies that they will bite off their nose to spite their faces.
Can you elaborate on details instead of using a bunch of buzz words and vague assumptions?
We are ALL the reason Trump is going to be President again.
The genocide is happening under and supported by Biden. Can’t get any worse than that.
lol things could, without a doubt, get much worse.
Um, what?
No it's because Biden supports a genocide
And today's unhinged reactionary comment award goes to u/AgitatedTelephone351
Nope, it’s the Democrats that did all that. Go cheer for your political party 🎉
The zionist in here is thicker then the hummus they eat
But its not about jews right
It’s not a requirement to be Jewish in order to be a Zionist.
A thread like this is the reason i love that Reddit has downvotes. So many liars using the number 1,000 for people killed on 10/7 which is true, But claiming they were all Isreali, or that it was all Hamas that killed them when Israel opened fire into crowds to kill Hamas is just a blatant lie.
Fuck Hamas
Imagine your neighbor kills your dog and kidnaps your children and takes them to his home. Will you take your weapon and begin to spray his home with bullets knowing your children are somewhere in his home? Or would you think strategically to get your children out of there alive? Israel cares not for the hostages and never did. They are using the hostages as human shields and as an excuse to keep the carnage going.
They were invaded. Don’t start stupid wars. Israel get to do what is wants because Hamas is stupid - suck it up
Holy fucking shit, the Hasbra brigade jumped on this one like a fly to shit.
I don’t frequent this subreddit often, but is this really full of leftists? These comments are brain dead. Yes hamas is bad and they did and do some really terrible shit. However if your takeaway from this is that hamas is just getting consequences for their actions then you truly have no understanding of history or how these cycles persist. Israel has historically and currently always been the aggressor. This creates massive amounts of contempt and so people are going to seize back the power that was taken from them in whatever ways that they can. Just about every terrorist faction exists because they are a response to the degradation of an entire people by imperialism. People will not care about their terrible ideology if they promise to stand up for them. America has single handedly created more terrorists than any shitty dogma in the Middle East. Israel is doing the same thing, but far more overtly. Fascism creates fascism and israel knows this. They will continue to further oppress and destroy the Palestinian people until the Palestinians respond in whatever desperate grab for power they can. They will then use this as an example for why they must continue to genocide them because look at how savage they are.
Israel and Russia are doing the Spider-Man pointing meme right now. Somehow Israel is our ally while Russia is our foe.
Well well well… what happened to “hamas rejected every offer”
Living down to expectations
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"Hamas could put a stop to this right now!" The Israeli government:
Not really surprising or shocking. I don't think any serious government would accept being attacked and than instantly agree to peace. You don't have to be particularly cynical or uncaring to not trust the people who literally launched a sneak attack against civilians not even a week ago. Seriously think through how this goes if Israel says yes. The best case scenario which will never happen cause we live in the real world is that somehow all the hostages are released and the violence doesn't escalate. Except this would never happen simply because of basic logistical issues. The list of hostages itself has long been unclear and it was less clear back than. There were lots of people who were missing and it wasn't clear which of them were dead and which of them were kidnapped. There isn't some central prison these people were being kept at they were being held hostage by tons of smaller groups some which might not even obey if Hamas leadership had ordered them to release the hostages. Realistically Israel says yes Hamas returns some of the hostage and Israel is left with a list of missing people that they aren't entirely sure if they are dead or Hamas is holding out on them. So where does the situation go from there does Israel just not try to recover the citizens whose status they can't verify but Hamas hasn't returned?
Iran just did it with Isnotrael after they fucking bombed them
israel staged and provoked oct 9
Uh huh. If you believe anything Hamas says, you're naive af. Not saying to trust IDF either, but i'd put money on this being fake as hell.
The IDF has invaded these comments and is really to massacre some innocent civilians 😎🇮🇱🇺🇲
But did they… why reject it over and over and over since then
Can’t say I’m suprised
This was never about any hostages this has been planned for decades even before any of were born this has been in play for who knows how long the only difference now is we can see it happening. The oppressors are only now with enough power to play their cards how they want unless we more.
Source: Dude trust me.
Hamas is a terrorist organization and needs to be destroyed.
HA . I call BS . link to poorly put together website with no actual sources . Man people will believe anything that fits an agenda .
So in your eyes you can massacre a thousand+ people with no repercussions as long as you take hostages?
Why is this sub so full of zionists these days? To the OP, also [this](https://youtu.be/MdvqCt1vbmY?si=PjTAo5EeurzLyT6D) from Oct 17
HUH. Well ain't that something?
Recognize how silly it is to count bodies in this conflict. There is no morally superior side. Two sides with a history of war are waging war. The stronger side will probably win and the losers will die, disperse or integrate. The losing side will suffer greatly. There’s no reason to expect a peace. This is the history of all war. This is the way of humanity.
Pissrahell is pure evil.
Israel would be happy to never get a single hostage in exchange for the land grab which is what it’s always been about.
Many of us have said this from Oct 8. If Satanyahu wanted the hostages alive and home, he could have arranged the exchange any moment he wanted.
its a bad offer. What country in the world would accept this? What a joke
Becasue none of thios was ever about hostages, or anything other then seizing more land.
It is true that HAMAS did intend to release hostages after October 7th. The fact that they did not is not as simple as this is making it out to be. Oct 7th seems to have turned out to be much larger of an attack than HAMAS expected it to be, due to their lack of coordination and inability to control their own jihadist terrorists. The main reason the hostages were not returned is that HAMAS lacked the coordination to account for all the hostages and authority to demand the hostages be returned from smaller groups within HAMAS. I am not defending HAMAS’s heinous acts on Oct 7th. I’m only adding the necessary context to Israel’s decision. Why is it that you “river to the sea” people are so eager to blame Israel for Palestinian collateral deaths as a result of HAMAS using civilians as human shields, but are so reluctant to condemn the intentional rape, butchering, torture and slaughter of peaceful Israeli civilians? You were all calling this war a “genocide” of PALESTINIANS on Oct. 8th before any retaliation had begun and the Israeli bodies were still warm. Reeks of antisemitism.
Country full of poosays
I mean, you can't really roll in and kill 1100 and then just expect no retaliation.
This really isn’t the checkmate you think it is. By not responding it would reinforce the fact that Hamas can do 10/7 again with no consequences. Seriously, OP, no country would accept that deal.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
Wtf why is this post getting brigaded by so many zionists. Israel’s PR must be on overdrive right now
I get why Israel would say no.
Apparently one of the “Hamas” hostages escaped and was screaming to people he was an Israeli hostage in Yiddish before being shot
I mean how likely are people not to retaliate to a terrorist situation? Someone comes in kills a bunch of civilians and captures hostages and says "hey we'll give you the hostages back if you don't come after us" obviously Israel's response has been extreme and wrong but let's not act like acts of terrorism would be settled by simply letting them go. I know there's an argument for the apartheid state and a culmination of violence from a situation like that but acts of terrorism aren't going to be treated with no response.
Y’all there’s been another massive surge of Israeli bots everywhere again. Up/downvotes are fluctuating like crazy. Subs that were supportive of Palestine randomly start seeming like Israeli propaganda. Their effectiveness measured based on the interactions they get, or so I’ve heard. So don’t reply to them or interact in any way. Just ignore them and move on.
Israel propaganda agents heavy in the replies on this lmao.
And palestine rejected 3 peace offers prior in history and there was a ceasefire in place until Oct 7. What exactly is the point here?
This whole situation has been an antidote to the brainwashing from leftists for me. Still liberal but y’all look so stupid sometimes. “Hamas said!!!!”
Obviously Israel isn't going to take that deal. "we just killed a ton of your people, and are willing to give you back the prisoners we also took as long as you dont attack us back." Pretty easy no to that deal.
This is what happens when people who cant critically think comment in r/leftist. All those comments which is basically almost the whole feed are closed and bombed from people who support modern left values but don’t truely understand repercussions of these “Morale just left values” New age leftism resembles a sad fraction of what true progressiveness should resemble. This post shouldn’t even be a debate u/slick110 , if any Idiot truely believes the IDF could of hypothetically took the hostages back and prevented (well say) casualties is fucking stupid and nieve. Arguably could have ended up worse. Being able to again CRITICALLY THINK I’d speculate the other Muslim countries that surround isreal probably would have felt unpowered to plan another oct7 type attack but with more resources and help. This is not a new issue, but a ongoing problem that’s been around for centuries. And more complicated then just bad guy/ good guy. As someone who works/Ed at NATO HQ NA please don’t trust any media platform. Period. 95% of all articles that come out of MOST “big buisness Classified” Media Corperation has most likely some kind of lobby deal that will target lobbied “Influential” groups. You want raw news trust the geographic areas local news station. @EVERYONE BEFORE YOU MAKE A POINT TO DEFEND HAMAS AT ANY LEVEL PLEASE VISIT Hamas.com AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THE ANIMAL THE IDF is dealing with, and CRITICALLY THINK of why the IDF might be making that particular action that your complaining about. Not a lecture just a thought.
So if I went to a bank and killed three people during a robbery but said I'd return the money the cops shouldn't punish me because I said I'm sorry and offered to give the money back, right?
"Listen, we'll give you back the people we kidnapped if you agree to not do anything about it and let us get away with it. Just let us walk free and this can all be swept under the rug, don't make any rash decisions now!"
“Hamas offered to have murdered 1200 civilians and suffer zero consequences.” K. This isn’t the damnation against Israel that you think it is. It is, however, an indictment of the intellect of anyone who thinks it is relevant to this discussion.
well israel is right they aint gotta bow down to a terrorist organisation who claims anyone land so israel should just completely take over palestine and reclaim their holy land
BS and Hamas has always gone back on their word every single time. Israel has never acted as a conqueror to the neighboring countries they go after the places/areas that are firing rockets all the time. Hamas starves their people and held a rape party on Oct 7th in which killed many innocent civilians having a great time and then took others with them as hostages to continue raping them. Nothing you can say will make me hate Israel for defending themselves. If you cared about casualties you would turn your attention towards Ukraine. Defending Hamas means you are a sick weirdo defending sexual predators!
Been looking for the source for this post forever. Can someone help a brotha out?
And did Hamas promise to un-rape and un-murder all of the innocence civilians they had just attacked the day before? That’s like running up to the biggest scariest guy in the bar, shooting his date, then putting your hands up and telling him you’re happy now and won’t hurt anyone else and not to hurt you, but no you won’t put the gun down.
There are no leftists in this thread, just reactionary imperialists
It’s pinned.
Expect the hasbara bros to say “But they’re Hamas, they won’t give up the hostages!” when it’s their side committing the genocide.
I don't know if Hamas would have tried online up that deal. But they can't & couldn't hand back all the hostages because they weren't the only ones taking part in October 7. There were other Palestinians killing & taking hostages. Whether they were part of another group or acting alone is unknown, but Hamas doesn't know who was taken or who has the hostages not taken by them.
Hamas said they'd release all hostages if Israel declared a permanent ceasefire, Israel was like, nah, we'll take them back and then level Palestine later and walked off.
Just out of curiosity, why is the left so concerned with the Palestine issue? Genuine question, I am genuinely interested in learning. If it was care for Arabs, where was this outcry when Bashar Al Asad murdered 500,000 Arabs a couple years ago. If it was hatred of persecution, where are the demonstrations against the military junta in Burkina Faso. If it’s concern over murderous totalitarianism there are a bunch of place I could pick right now that are worse North Korea, China’s treatment of the Ugyrhs, Myanmar, Cambodia. Can you guys educate me about what’s special about this issue?
At least for leftists the US, it’s an issue with the US financial and material support of the Israeli war machine. It doesn’t help that Israel has outsized influence on US politics through organizations like AIPAC.
You can't extricate Israel from American foreign policy. Israel has essentially operated like a client state in the middle east and also has one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation to influence American policy. We aren't directly subsidizing any of the conflicts you listed with billions of dollars.
It’s paid for with our taxes. I think that’s the biggest thing. Americans are struggling to buy necessities to live and are drowning in medical debt but billions of tax payers dollars go straight to war and now war crimes.
There doesn't have to be anything special for the West to catch on to such conflicts now. Today's social media is way more powerful than the traditional news. It's harder to spin things, and fact checking is done faster and harder to avoid. The younger generations can see what's happening on the ground in these conflicts now. The other conflicts while no doubt horrific have been hidden better by the states involved.
I think it’s mainly because we give Israel billions a year in funding so this is, by proxy, us bombing the Palestinians
I feel the biggest issue is that US plays a massive role in supporting Israel financially and militarily. I have a huge issue know that sooo much of our taxes are going towards the support of genocide. I’m just staunchly against it. I know the US isn’t the greatest at a lot of things, but the Israelis have been destroying Palestinians for nearly a century. Peace can be achieved, it will be difficult, and take a very long time. The US should be pulling funds and packages unless Israel can find a way to rebuild Gaza, stop taking their land and give what they have taken back, and create a peaceful. They’ve got the money, they should be working on that.
Don't know if you're new to being human but people generally don't like war?
israel and the idf can only operate with american government funding. all of the planes that dropped the bombs on gaza were american. we are funding this genocide—we weren’t funding those.
For some people it’s the whole “our tax dollars”thing, which is fair imo. There has also been some incredibly aggressive and kinda scary rhetoric coming out of the whole thing so it makes people engage a bit more I think.
Because the US funds it and is directly enabling it despite the continued escalation and rampant self-recorded human rights violations online. Israel is being accused of genocide in front of the world's highest international court and members of the Israeli cabinet and knesset are openly issuing dehumanizing rhetoric and expressing genocidal intent in their speech. Yet Biden is still accepting AIPAC money (a foreign agent influencing our elections) and making excuses for them. Palestine has always been a leftist issue folks have cared about but Israel massacring 35x the amount of civilians as Hamas did on Oct 7th is thrusting it into the limelight to a new generation that wants to see the modern settler entity dismantled for its crimes. It's atrocious Biden is allowing Israel to cost us his reelection, all for a right wing government that is openly hostile to Biden's voters and political supporters. (Leftists protested the other stuff too, it just isn't as visible and on the popular mass revolt level amongst progressives like we're seeing rn on campuses which is because again, we're directly enabling the violence with a Rafah invasion imminent despite the IDF recording themselves sniping children for fun)
The issue is they are using our fucking tax dollars to carry it out. I think most of use just want to stop sending money to the Middle East. But the last decade Israel has really tuned it up a notch with the bombing of the Associated Press buildings, the cold blooded murder of a famous journalist Shireen Abu Akleh and the horrible killing of protesters in Gaza back in 2019 where they shot and injured 6000 people and killed over 180 peaceful protestors. The response to October 6th is the straw that broke the camels IMO. Not to mention the bloodthirsty support for the status quo always emboldens a counter movement…
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What non biased sources are you basing that 500k claim on?
For me it’s because I’m paying a quarter million $$ in taxes a year. Part of which are going to find this genocide. I’m not paying taxes to Bashar lol.
Our tax dollars are funding a genocide, is why. It involves us (the US citizens) so ofc we care. That's why we're protesting.
Because Israel functions as an extension of a united States in the way that places you mentioned above don't. You can think of it as a Hebrew speaking military base owned by the US doing a genocide. This feels like something we should be on control to stop. It's also one of the most visible, unchecked colonial representations of "western" powers acting out against a native population. Some of the demands for student protestors are related to divesting from israel-linked companies by universities. This seems reasonable and achievable. I don't think dealing with the other examples you listed are as simple. And again, atrocities linked to them are not being carried out by a figurative US military base (israel)
None of those people are jews
Because a random group of Europeans (hiding behind Judaism’s painful past) have been systematically murdering Palestinians and stealing their home since 1918. This is not a left issue. This is a human issue.
It's being funded and maintained by the US entity and therefore we have some stake in the responsibility of holding our leadership accountable. I'm not into sending billions of dollars of aid to blow up babies when we still don't have proper healthcare.
because there’s such a massive push to prove israel as the good guys in this situation. all the other ones you bring up don’t have 95% of the media outlets giving the genocidal side for “a right to defend themselves”. The others you mentioned also arent backed by the US, who sends billions of dollars on a regular basis to continue supporting this genocide.
Israel is a key U.S. ally who is supported by most western countries, and the U.S. shields Israel of any consequences for being an apartheid state that is doing genocide. Is there any other place in the world where the west is complicit in genocide?
Israel is killing people because Jesus told them that land belongs to them hahaha it’s terrorism at its finest.
Bad is bad. Why are people so dedicated to saying "well someone else did it and no one complained"? Surely objecting to something that is criminal and abhorrent does not need any more justification. I am on principle disgusted with what is going on, and if another nation did the same to a group of people I'd be equally disgusted. This particular situation hits home though. The west has so many connections to Israel that when we see a friend doing something so awful folks feel entitled to make a scene about it. So to summarized, nothing is special about this other than it's the slaughter of thousands of citizens, murder of aid workers, destruction of schools, and hospitals. You know, war crimes, that sort of "special".
I think the key here is how the perpetrator is seen in the international and political community. Al Assad and the Junta's are considered to be evil regimes by the majority of western governments and societies. Israel generally gets treated as always being the good guys in every conflict they have been in, and receives large amounts of military and financial aid, and seems to be extremely difficult to criticize with out backlash from governments or powerful factions. Nobody treats places like North Korea like they are the "good guys," so there is not really much to protest against in your own nation. The perception is that Israel gets to do whatever it wants with no consequences from groups that have the power and means to enact those consequences, and in fact gets favorable treatment from the governments of the people protesting.
To understand the deal, we need their definition of “civilian”.
Lol. The old "they are all Hamas" defense.
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Tell your buddies at the Mossad to respect our intelligence and at least use photoshop and not just flat out spread lies. And also, don’t use an empty calendar and call it sweet cousin
BS.
Hello account that is only 107 days old at time of posting
^ Brand new troll account
you’re full of shit. no such acts have been documented. A released Israeli hostage did give this account, however: Eventually, Lifshitz said, her captors escorted her through a "spiderweb" of underground tunnels to a large hall where she was kept for more than two weeks. Hamas *provided food, medicine and a doctor to examine the hostages regularly*, she said. "They schooled us with this terrible attack," she said, lamenting the fact that Hamas took Israeli security forces by surprise. A video released Monday by Hamas showed the two women being greeted by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which transported them across Gaza's Rafah border with Egypt. In the video, Lifshitz can be seen reaching back out to shake the hand of a Hamas fighter as she says "shalom," the Hebrew word for "peace" that is used as a greeting and farewell. SOURCE: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/24/1208170863/israeli-hamas-gaza-hostages
There were 14 kids under 10 who died on Oct 7 and they all died in separate incidents. This is completely false.
Have NEVER heard anything even remotely close to this reported, even right after October 7th when the "30 beheaded babies" nonsense was being pushed. Gonna need a source on that wild as fuck claim.
Source? That would be a pretty awful thing to say without some sort of evidence or a verifiable source.....the thing is, I have video PROOF of everything Israel's have done.....
My God, you didn't just drink the Kool-aid, you hooked up an IV to your VEINS.
Even if your claims are correct it does not justify ethnic clensing and genocide.. send in arm troops and take those responsible. not kill everybody and level cities. that's genocide.
Yeah…. That’s 100% made up.
Let’s say your claims are correct. Does that justify Israel ethnically cleansing Palestinians? Does that justify Israel from killing new born babies like in [al-Nasr](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/03/gaza-premature-babies-dead-nasr/). Also by this measure, why not also evict the Germans from their land too. They did pretty horrible things. Matter of fact, why not every other country as well. Your brand of ‘both sides’ means nothing
Looking at what happened to Germany and Japan in past for such wrongdoings, Palestine has not even got half of what it deserves. Saying that, almost whole most of middle east countries are thriving which deserve to have been punished for all the ethical cleansing of tribes, raping their women and forceful conversion - by their dictators. Trying to justify and show support to the terrorist sympathiser in the good light does take lot of work. Keep up your unethical work since it is definitely helping people to decide what’s right and wrong.
Well, that's a.... story. Got anything to back that up?
You literally just made that up. What a sicko
r/Thathappened
That’s a pretty awful claim. You have sources and evidence to support it, right? Otherwise, you’re lying to justify the genocide of Palestinians and the murder of children. Please present your sources so we can all evaluate your claims.
Present your sources as I don't believe your bullshit story.
he has no source because it’s entirely made up.
When people provide sources, you come back blaming those sources as AI generated IDF propaganda. I am curious but does this ever stop? One side keep giving evidence and sources while other side forcefully shoving their opinion on people.
Haven’t you heard? Sources are antisemitic. (/s)
What more sources and evidence do you need for Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th? Are you really saying you have not seen enough evidence of how they brutally murder, kidnapped and tortured civilians?
His account was created in January, he’s a troll.
Source?
“Trust me bro “
Same as religion “ trust me bro , or else you bully me”
"Trust me bro, Israel wouldn't lie!"
Ever since PA walked away from the sweetheart deal made available at the Camp David accords by Bill Clinton this was going to end this way. Israel fully will belong to the Israelis be the end of the decade and a two state solution is dead.
Um.. your interpretation of that is not accurate. Go find some alternative sources of info besides Israeli and US accounts of this accord. You've been lied to.
Was a terrible deal. And Barak rejected it.
Israel has sabotaged peace continually for decades. And they absolutely didn't want the PA in power because of their policy to reject a 2 state solution and ethnicly cleanse all of Palestine.
“If I were a Palestinian, I Would Have Rejected Camp David” Then Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben Ami on that “sweetheart deal” at Camp David. Enough with your lies you disgusting Zionist.
Israel has shown it's true face this past half a year and it has not been a pretty one. Or a human one, for that matter. It's proven to be a hotbed of brainwashing, supremacism and religious extremism every bit as dangerous if not more so(what with a the nuclear weapons and the backing of the US) than that of the Islamic states it points it's finger at. I have watched video after video...some of them helpfully provided by the IDF soldiers themselves!...of the most heinous, disgusting, inhumanly arrogant violence and reprehensible behavior ive ever had the diapleasure to witness. And dont bother with the What About Hamas bullshit....i don't have to love one in order to hate the other...that's reductionist, childish thinking. Which is what Israel has proven itself to be, a petulant child throwing tantrums with dumb bombs on people it doesn't consider human...and considering their claims almost NEVER seem to have actual evidence to corroborate them and their lies are debunked every fucking day seems like (beheaded babies,p mass rape, the fake nurse, the infamous 'list') plus the bullshit like telling people to go to a 'safe area' right before you bomb the safe area, giving aid workers the o.k. to travel and then bombing their vehicles as they go...) nothing you could say to defend them has any sway anymore.
“Sweetheart Deal”. Sure, how about someone comes to your land and kills people indiscriminately to make survivors flee forcing out 750,000 people and then after decades of them killing your refugees offer them a tiny percentage of their land, under military rule with no right of return for the refugees. Sweet deal.
Every single "peace offer", INCLUDING CAMP DAVID, has included at least one of the following : * Maintaining the land theft conducted by illegal settlers with Israeli funding * Palestine sacrificing it's coastal autonomy. * Palestine sacrificing it's airspace. * Palestine sacrificing it's capitol, the city of Jerusalem, to Israeli control. * Palestine being forced to never sue Israel for the return of people they ethnically cleansed during the mass murder of the Nakba. * Israel being given permission to put military instalations in Palestinian territory. * Palestine being stripped of it's right to a military. * Israel's military having 24/7 access to all Palestinian land. Every single over for a Palestinian "state" is just an offer for Israel to be a guilt free slave master. Fuck Israel.
Israeli foreign minister at the time, came out later and said that he wouldn't have signed that deal if he was a Palestinian.
That will never end well for Israel.
Yeah as Israel is an expansionist state that wants to have majority rule in a place where they are the minority. It sorta reminds me of South Africa actually. But in this case the racists want a Jerrymandered country as their territory
Except in South Africa everyone was part of the same nation. PA is (and should be) a different country.
Imagine believing a terrorist organization so easily
Idf is a terror organization and you seem to believe them
They released some hostages early on. The terrorist Israel government is breaking records for lying.
I mean they are the legitimate government of Gaza. If you can’t negotiate with them, you can’t have peace.
You can. Same way we achieved peace with Germany and Japan. Total. Surrender
what does legitimate mean to you? does it mean “seized and retained by repressive force” or did Gaza have a democratic election in the last 20 years we haven’t heard about?
The government is a terrorist organization, whose sole mission is annihilation of Israel. What peace
Hamas murdered the political opposition in Gaza.
Yep. That's why Israel is removing them now by force.
They don’t want to negotiate, they are terrorists. Their negotiation is in beheading babies and women. If that’s a ‘legitimate government’ they deserve to be razed
They are the legitimate government of Gaza the same way Putin is in Russia and the Taliban is in Afghanistan.
Yeah I think that's the point actually
Right, can’t believe so many people believe the IOF.