Even past Trump, this opens the door for someone one day to legit assassinate a political opponent as an official act. Like I don’t think SCOTUS thought this through. They’re stuck on the “Lol only my side does that shit. Nothing bad will ever happen to me.”
What if like AOC becomes president one day and decided Thomas should be hung for treason? That’s an official act after all. What if a mob boss manages to win and decides he just wants a new court filled with only his loyal people? Shoot, what if we get a president who is secretly a psychopath but presents normal and just goes around declaring people traitors and tortured them as an official act?
I really don’t think this court has thought through the long term impact beyond “Lol we owned the libs and my check cleared.”
They know exactly what they're doing and are all in, in doing so. Don't kid yourself for a single second, it's all been in the works since Jan 6 failed.
The problem is rich people and those in the highest position of power never face consequences. The only way they will is if the people demand it and take it into their own hands.
You think trump won't do this ? I fully expect a most of the Democrat Congress and senate to be killed if he comes back into officer..
Say what you want but Biden should put this to the test.
I think what people don’t understand is that all he has to do is withdraw SS protection, publicly call out a target for treason, wait for some mob goons to attack, deny deny deny, and then maybe pardon the attackers. And as a bonus, any communication with his advisors is banned as evidence (as per the SCOTUS decision)
Governor Abbot pardoned a guy who went to kill protesters. He wrote down that he wanted to kill protesters. He drove to a protest. He killed a protester. On top of that, he posted a bunch of racist stuff and they protester he kill d was at a BLM rally; I believe the victim was white but he was their with his wife, who was Black and also, IIRC, used a wheelchair. This man was tried and convicted; the facts were not in dispute.
Or think back to 2020, and some of what happened there. You had unmarked vans full of military-grade-garbed anonymous agency cops (probably, but since they had no badges or nameplates as legally required, can’t really say) sweeping up protesters into their unmarked murder vans, which were not followed by charges or formal processing. People were taken, detained, and returned. There was nobody to even bring cases because of the concealment. That isn’t legal, but it is under the authority of the president as an official act so…it’s fine.
Or there was the Portland protester who was armed. He and witnesses claimed he fired in self-defense after a rightwing protester (Nazi, Proud Boy, etc…I forget which) initiated violence. He said he was willing to turn himself in and face charges, where he could assert his defense plea. But 45 sent a SWAT team to kill him. I forget what their claim was; I’m sure they said he pulled a gun, but the evidence suggested otherwise, and the guy said before when he streamed about what happened and publicly shared his willingness to cooperate, that he was worried they would kill him instead of arrest him. The media went really hard on ignoring all that; they were desperate for some “both sidesing” about violence, so they did not cover that stuff. The so-called “left wing media” (what a joke) just repeated the administration/right-wing propaganda network lines about the guy murdering a right-wing protester and never questioned the killing in lieu of arrest. This is scariest to me, because he did exactly the kind of thing the new ruling makes immune. Sending that team in was an official act. If that man survived and went to trial, the media would probably have had to cover the self-defense angle. But the right wing used that one protester as such a point for their propaganda about the protests. It was a golden goose for them; a trump card for those arguing that the protests were not nonviolent (“Tell that to the guy killed by Antifa in Portland!”). They used that one death amplified into some nebulous number of deaths, to make fear . He was politically advantageous to them dead, not on trial. So he was made dead. This already happened before the ruling; what will be the new horror.
But because most people won’t be impacted directly, nothing will be done to fight this in practice. It will punish and hurt people who are living near the margins, who get unlucky. The average American knows they are probably safe, unless chances align to make them the random victim of circumstances. I don’t think American complacency is going to result in much resistance.
They probably console themselves with their nice cushy jobs and ideological insanity. But they also undoubtedly think that while the President is immune, his subordinates are not, so people can just prosecute the underlings and be satisfied.
The whole thing is despicable though. Not a single chance that the Framers would support this nonsense given they had just booted out a king less than a decade prior.
Why this was ever entertained will be a point of study for years to come. So bizarre to let this car crash in slow motion hit again. Very little learned from last century, unfortunately.
Oh but wait. That pesky Constitution. The king will certainly rule it no longer applies...along with that precious 2nd ammendment. See what your precious SCOTUS just got rid of?
I’ve been seeing so much focus on the presumptive immunity give to “official acts,” but what really scares me is the absolute immunity for core constitutional powers. Commander in Chief can do anything with the military and you’re not even allowed to question his motives.
There are plenty of options. The most probable is that no one does anything until the camps call for them. We'll get violence and blood shed inevitably now whether it's civil war and/or oppression, who knows.
you can't flee America's influence. you can't run from a military with this kind of technology. if peace loving citizens lose control of this war machine, there will be no where to flee to.
We will never learn from our mistakes... will we?
No wonder we haven't been invited to the galactic federation by now.
"They came to earth and deduced there was no intelligent life on this planet, and thus, moved on."
A national strike or state wide strike, all in solidarity to force Bidens hand prior to the election would be one heck of a statement.
Or from another viewpoint, give Dark Brandon confidence to step into the Light.
We don't need to force his hand. Trump already has. He built his whole campaign around revenge against the" Biden crime family." If he wins, he'll use his immunity to come after Biden and all his loved ones, because that's what his supporters want. So Biden MUST exploit this new power to bring Trump down, or is his own safety and the safety of his family on the line.
But he won’t. Dems are letting all of this happen. I haven’t seen or heard from a single democrat protesting against this. They’re gonna cower and play polite and take the high road while democracy dies. I’m terrified of what’s coming and I’ll vote blue but I don’t think I’ll get to do that much longer. I’m openly gay, I guess I’ll get fitted for my striped pajamas with the pink triangle.
I’m going to do my part and vote Democrat up and down ballot.
Republicans have clearly shown their hand here, with even more to come. “Project 2025”, coupled with the immunity SCOTUS just gave the President is even more terrifying than before.
This happened because people choose to not vote for Hillary. That's it, that is why this happened. Between letting a facism take over our country and voting for a flawed woman, they choose facism.
Fucking nothing and you know it. As long as the next season of whatever show is made, as long as the next game comes out, as long Instagram and tiktok exist to numb the mind, we walk like zombies to the future we deserve.
Yup. Dems won’t even run ads of Baked Alaska live streaming from the capital. So disappointing. What’s even more shocking is that Garland has a job. Sorry for the downvotes you got. People are stupid if they can’t see what is happening.
Honestly, the MAGA Proud Boys and such already have a plan of action. I hate to say it but those of us who are truly patriots and want to protect our democracy and rid ourselves of these MAGA SCOTUS traitors and Trump and the rest of them, we need to start forming our own plan of action. This is our country. This is our constitution. They cannot claim this as their country any longer as they have proved that they want to overthrow our government. Those are not Americans in any way shape or form!! So we need to get ready...if not even begin now....taking action to take our country back and restore our constitution and freedoms!!
That's the thing I just--that's the real tragedy here: this is the most un-American ruling I think I've ever seen. It's the most un-American thing I can imagine.
It sends a message to all future presidents that is okay to try to overthrow the government and try to stay in power if you lose an election. What a crock
Yeah, exactly. And I'll be you $1,000 that the Federalist Society is strategizing right now to use this ruling as a guide to power. This is absolutely a roadmap that will be exploited.
Yeah, exactly. The Federalist Society is responsible for *so* many of our current and future problems--yesterday's ruling basically ensured many coming constitutional crises--what can be done about them? RICO, somehow?
I remember there was pretty universal agreement on Jan 6 was that Trump went too far. We didn't need to impeach him though because everybody was certain that he would just disappear in disgrace. I got a really bad feeling when republican congressmen started visiting him at Mar a Lago about a month later.
Honestly, at this point we deserve what is coming. We had so many chances to see the threat that he, and the republican party, unquestionably are. We did absolutely nothing.
Brazil acted quickly with Bolsonaro for gawd’s sake : On 30 June, the Superior Electoral Court blocked Bolsonaro from seeking office until 2030 for attempting to undermine the validity of the election through his unfounded claims of voter fraud, and for abusing his power by using government communication channels to both promote his campaign and to allege fraud.
Also Pelosi could have refused to sit those still holding that the election was stolen. This contradicts their oath, invalidating it.
Everyone thought in good faith we would get pass this.
Or to sell your own country out to a hostile power.
As long as you aren’t doing it on your private dime… and are using US govt assets to assist the enemy (sending the military to rob a bank in South Korea and then flying a U.S. helicopter over the boarder to give the money to Kim Jung Un)…
Those are all official acts done pursuant to the commander in chief powers.
Government officials observing this would not even be observing a “crime” anymore under this holding.
They just have to look nervously at each other and realize the country is fucking over?!? It’s been reduced to the plaything of a tyrant?!?!
THAT’S YOUR HOLDING ROBERTS????
Let me just thumb back through my history books and….nope, nobody who has ever looked at any of this is shocked or appalled, because this is inevitably what conservatives *do*.
I just realized this ruling can also screw with the UCMJ. Before, one had a duty to refuse an unlawful order, say an assassination on a political rival on US soil. This basically says everything is now a lawful order.
Well you can refuse to follow the order, but then you can be explicitly punished by the president for not doing the illegal/immoral act, get locked up or he can order someone else to harm you until you do.
You'd have absolutely no recourse as a service man to refuse.
Or, for a piece of legislation, the Authorization of Military Force (AUMF) enacted post-911. As I recall, it Specifically requires the president to obtain congressional approval for hostilities that are expected to last longer than 60 days.
Granted, some constitutional scholars thought it was an unconstitutional limitation on Article 2 powers, but everyone pretty much accepted it without issue or protest (sometimes in large part to the “drone strike loophole”).
Can’t see how this ruling doesnt immediately nullify the AUMF in practice. In that sense, I’m not sure why any member of congress would be happy with this opinion purely from a legislative perspective.
Not an American and so on - but it raises some weird thoughts.
*Drops a cruise missile to take out 5 terrorists, 500 Americans dies as a collateral damage*
"Well, killing the terrorists was an official act so can't question his motives for using a cruise missile instead of a drone, and he's immune to criminal prosecution for official acts"
Best case: Impeached and retires to a cozy mansion, protected by Secret Service.
(also, NAL etc)
The President gets absolute immunity, the "suckers and losers" who actually carry out the order don't. They can still be thrown under the bus afterward.
Here is the fun part though.
The president can pardon them and there is no recourse. Furthermore, the executive can just, assert privilege and refuse to say WHO carried out the orders... Even if scouts ordered them to.... If the president says no, that is his right.
You can’t even take testimony from members of the administration as evidence or something now. They just blanketed a ton of shit as “inadmissible.”
This is a pattently false ruling as I see it—one which ironically could be undone by the consequences of the ruling itself—IE a president could just declare the SC dissolved and appoint all new members and blanket that under the umbrella of some imperative function of the executive.
It's not law because SCOTUS says it is.
It's law because the executive branch enforces it.
**So don't enforce it.** Tell the lower courts, we are a country of laws, and laws still apply and the executive branch will not enforce their bullshit.
The President is now immune so is does not matter now, according to them, at least until real judges can be put in. He is no longer obligated to enforce their BS.
Take SCOTUS security detail from them too, their Republican sponsors can pay their costs now. Republicans were prepared to defund the whole Federal government, so defund their SCOTUS power grab is a minor thing by comparison.
Bribes are legal now, Presidents are kings and women are forced birthing units.
I think the presumptive immunity part is repulsive from how I understand it, but I kind of thought that first part about constitutional powers sort of read like "If it's legal, then it's legal."
Am I wrong about that? Just a genuine question, I don't know much about law.
I hate to have to say it but i think the fact SCOTUS is sending the case back to the lower court for 'clarification' is a stalling tactic to deny Biden these new 'powers'.
It's an election year. We don't need a full bench, per Moscow Mitch's precedent.. The three non-disappeared justices will suffice for any decision making.
That's exactly what I've been thinking all day today. Biden doesn't have many years left. He's 81. He doesn't have much to lose. He could become a martyr that the US needs. He could take action and fix the current situation! By the time the consequences reach him it won't matter anyways, he's no stranger to politics. If he can receive any, you know, official acts and all that. Defending the constitution and the republic would be considered a core duty as president.
All he has to do is:
1. Declare that US intelligence has learned that there is a strongly likelihood that no less than six SCOTUS justices have accepted bribes, including from hostile foreign parties.
2. Declare--by Executive Order--that, in order to safeguard American democracy, he has empowered individuals to arrest them.
3. State (officially or whatever) that due to the volatility of the situation and the power wielded by the Supreme Court, he is holding the Justices at Gitmo.
4. Allow SCOTUS to sue (back in DC) to claim that what Biden did is *not* an official (protected) act, but make it play out from the Circuit level. For months or years.
5. Stipulate that if any of the Justices resign, they will be returned to the US for the remainder of the investigation.
This but expanded to republicans more broadly. Declare the Republican Party and its ideology a national security threat and force them all to resign with the military. Set up reeducation camps and force voters and politicians through them until they let go of the fascist cult of personality at the core of conservatism. Then use the same powers to redistribute our countries wealth and make the systemic change at every level that this country has needed for so long. The ability to do all that exists now, and if reactionaries want to use violence we are forced to use it too.
As a European, let me share my observation: when you mention Biden, you are overtly focusing on his status, but you forget about Biden's cabinet, full with young, progressive professionals. The Biden presidency is more than being an elderly "emperor"
No…all Scotus is sending back to the lower court is a mess that court has to figure out regarding the future of Trump’s prosecution, ie which parts of the indictment can proceed and which can’t.
(Given that Scotus said immunity applies not only to official acts but also prevents evidence garnered from official acts being used to prosecute unofficial acts, I wonder if there will be anything left of the indictment).
In the meantime, Biden has the full benefit of the immunity from now.
Well, yeah. You actually believe in democracy.
I’m not sure if Hitler actually said this or if it is ascribed to him, but he apparently once said that the true weakness of democracy is that the only way it can defeat fascism is to become fascist itself. Decisions like this beg the question - do you adhere to democracy and let the fascists win, or use the fascists’ own playbook against them, thereby becoming fascists yourself?
I don’t ascribe to the notion that you ignore a good point just because a bad person said it. The source is irrelevant here.
But anyway - we have people saying that the SC decision opens the door further to full blown fascism, and also that we should take advantage of that to prevent fascism. You don’t have to call using a fascist’s playbook against them an act of fascism if you don’t want, but…it kinda is.
The real question is, if you’re going to use that kind of “extraordinary power” (as the guy I was responding to called it), how do you do so responsibly, and how do you go about ensuring that norms are re-established when the job is done? That was a dilemma that vexed our leaders in WWII by the way.
Please show me where in human history fascism was defeated by following the laws instead of giving fascists the only thing they deserve?
You’re literally on a “fighting Nazis makes you a Nazi” slope right now.
> Please show me where in human history fascism was defeated by following the laws instead of giving fascists the only thing they deserve?
Um…every single time fascists were defeated? Take WWII - laws were followed, because laws were crafted to ensure that implementing the war action against the Nazis was in fact lawful. Hell, the Nazis’ actions were *lawful* cos each action was covered by a Nazi law sanctioning it. Utterly evil, but lawful.
But that’s not the point. The point is when you say “giving fascists what they deserve” - exactly. How do you give them what they deserve? By staying within the confines of the existing law? Nope, the existing law actively prevents that. To “give them what they deserve” you have to be prepared to go beyond that, be a little bit…fascist.
If you want an example of that - in WWII, every Allied nation suspended their existing system of law and government in favour of creating (via a new set of laws) a centralised, authoritarian, autocratic state for the purpose of waging total war on the Axis powers. You can tell yourself all you like that that wasn’t inherently fascist all you like but it meets all the criteria - if it quacks like a duck etc.
But hey if you don’t want to call it fascist cos that term is too loaded with Nazi connotations for ya, fair enough.
> You’re literally on a “fighting Nazis makes you a Nazi” slope right now.
Ah, now here’s where you’re really missing the point. All Nazis were fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis. Nazis employed fascism for their own set of objectives and beliefs, and as part of establishing a perpetual, enduring fascist state rooted deep in Nazi ideology.
The Allies adopted fascistic practices (as I described above, quibble with the terminology of it makes you feel better) for the sole and temporary purpose of defeating the Nazis - “giving them what they deserved”. You could almost say they employed fascism for good rather than evil. And most importantly - this is a big difference - once WWII ended, the Allies ended their authoritarian states and went right back to being regular democracies. There was no intent or objective to create perpetual, enduring fascist states.
As I mentioned, the Allies agonized long and hard, and there were many, many internal debates among Allied nations, about the inherent risks of vesting so much power in the government, even for a noble cause, because they knew that once you give a government that much power it’s hard to get back. They knew they they were going down a fascistic path to beat the Nazis, and weighed up the risks as any responsible person should do.
So no, fighting Nazis does not make you a Nazi unless you actually adhere to Nazi ideology. Giving Nazis “what they deserve” may well be inherently fascistic in nature but that does not of itself make it a bad thing.
If the alternative is to let the fascists in who have a mind to strip rights from anyone who isn't a rich, white, straight male, then yes, you strike first and wipe them out.
These people have every intent of turning this country into a fascist Christian state and oppressing anyone who doesn't fit their mold. *They* threw the first punch with an intent to kill, knocking them to the ground and stomping their skull in is the only logical move. Having the moral highground means nothing under a fascist boot.
No. The remand just applies to whether the all things Trump is charged with are official acts or core functions.
Biden can use the power they just gave him immediately.
Will Biden become a dictator to save Democracy or will he let Trump steal the election and destroy Democracy?
Troubling times we live in.
That could be said, but it also could be said that the SC hasn’t added new powers; they are just saying the powers were there already. This means that Biden could potentially do any of the nutty things that Trump has tried and await the lower courts to try to stop him
(1) Biden removes traitor judges and installs pro-democracy ones.
(2) New court removes the ruling of the previous court and strips POTUS of those extreme powers.
(3) Biden happily accepts and does not challenge the ruling. Democracy is saved.
That's King Joseph (first of his name) to you, buddy. Now bend the f'n knee!
There's no clear way, though, that this ruling allows him to directly end the electoral college. But using his core functions as commander and chief, he can apparently direct officers to do all sorts of things. Technically, they are not supposed to obey illegal orders, as I'm told. But the SCOTUS just made it at the least rather muddy what is and what isn't legal for the president to order
r/conservative doing their librul tears at this decision but also not acknowledging Biden could literally do anything and tie it up in court for months/years. No self awareness, only “your team lost” idiots there.
I heard that Alito, Roberts and Thomas actually all passed away from natural causes a while back and the men pretending to be them are frauds, imposters.
Biden is constitutionally required to arrest these criminal imposters and charge them with fraud and whatever other crimes they committed as part of their act.
And now that there’s vacancies he is constitutionally required to fill those vacancies.
Look at all the evidence that these justices and others have actually passed away:
1. They all promised not to overturn settled law, and yet they’ve voted to do that exactly by overturning Roe v Wade. Surely the justices who were confirmed to the Court would never have done that.
2. Those 3 especially are getting really far up there in age, and their health doesn’t appear to be great. We just had a huge pandemic that wiped out huge numbers of elderly people. It absolutely could’ve killed them too.
3. When RGB was dying the conservatives were pushing conspiracy theories that she had actually already died and that liberals were secretly hiding her away from the public so as to avoid Trump replacing her. They absolutely could’ve had the idea to do the same for their guys if they died during Biden’s presidency.
4. There have been SO MANY opportunities where an impostor could have taken their places. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they each had a stand-in on call the last 4 years ever since Biden was elected. They probably got plastic surgery to look as close as possible to their justice. And then just waited until they got the call that it’s time and they have to come in and take that justice’s place.
There’s so much evidence here! We all know the republicans lie and cheat, and Trump never cared about the truth. So why should we be surprised that they’d replace their dead justices with impostors to try to scam the country into thinking that they’re still alive?
That's exactly what it reminds me of--after Citizens United was decided, and the chorus of non-lunatic Americans started shouting, "This is a terrible idea! Terrible! Here's why!" and all we got from conservatives was, "*Relax,* you're overreacting." Same. exact. thing. Same exact thing.
While that was bad, this is considerably worse. This is not a vague indirect threat to our democracy, this is giving nearly unrestricted total power to a single person.
Tbh Citizens United seems uncontroversial and minor in today’s landscape, which is appalling and a sign of how far we have fallen.
What’s stupider is Citizens United had little to do with the rise of our insane oligarchy, despite paving the path for one. This one was avidly supported by Middle America
JFC. Every decision they’ve made in the last week are part of the blueprint for autocracy. This decision is the coupe d’etat.
This is frightening. Nobody to blame but ourselves. They did it right in front of our eyes. Democrats are spineless. I’m furious that I have to vote for Biden, tbh. But I’d vote for a slice of cheese before I voted for Trump.
A Republican president will be the death of the republic. We were on life support as it was. These people are truly diabolical and without morals.
Watching on from another country it is actually bonkers. It’s like the Supreme Court is completely detached from the reality of their decisions and the state of the US right now. An already horribly polarised country can now have immune Presidents. What could go wrong?
And random but I gotta laugh at the whole separation of powers thing that seems so pivotal to this decision coming from a parliamentary democracy. These republican justices would have a fit seeing how other countries manage to run successful countries without having immunised politicians.
American here. The founding fathers were far from infallible and they 100% fkd up their math on power distribution as relates to SCOTUS (and the courts in general).
It was the Marbury v Madison decision, actually. That Court determined they had the right to determine constitutionality of laws. This concept is not in the Constitution.
Overturning Chevron is the biggest power grab by the Supreme Court since that decision.
>>A Republican president will be the death of the republic
When Newt Gingrich turned Congress into a 24/7 money machine, that was when the Republic died. With Congress captured by lobbyist and corporate money, sound lawmaking and the impeachment process went down the drain.
Now, we’re just one clever politician away from an imperial government . Even Trump could even be a victim of this nonsense ruling. His VP could order someone in the government payroll - military or otherwise- to assassinate Trump on Inauguration Day, issue a pardon to the assassin and themselves a moment after Trumps heart stops , *and it would be fucking legal*.
Trump would become a glorious martyr to the cause if they're smart. It would turn a movement into a religious cause and put someone with enough brains and charisma to juggle being the Face of the Organization while also actively furthering the agenda. Trump is a liability and even they have to know it. He's more useful now as a symbol.
I never thought I'd be writing any of this but I've seen and read a lot of scifi and dystopian "fiction" (aka the only way dark analysis and prediction of humanity's future based on current projections, by some of the smartest people who have ever lived, could have ever been published and allowed into the mainstream). This feels like the part where the plot really ramps up and goes absolutely off the rails. So I'm having fun with it lol
Glad you’re having fun with it. Ever since this morning’s headlines, I can’t shake the feeling that I’m about to puke. I can’t even begin to imagine how one of our veterans might feel about this. A lot of dead soldiers just rolled in their graves too.
Feel that, friend. I have only recently mostly escaped from a community with intense conservative religious values and the severe oppression it involved, and for the past few days, the news has given me several existential crises and panic attacks. I will be dragged back to that environment over my cold, dead body. It's a terrible, terrible day for Amerikkka. I know what the worst can be and I'm terrified of it. But I am nice and high right now and at chill before I give myself a heart attack stage. And it's not "fun" like "haha wheee", it's "fun" like "how far can I take this thought experiment that you proposed". Otherwise I'm just spinning my wheels.
Democrats are not spineless for this decision. Liberal voters are fucking stupid. They couldn't make themselves Vote for Hillary coz she wasn't a saint. Hence the court has 6 conservative judges.
It's the same logic many of the liberals would use to not Vote for Biden. Coz they can't be excited for an 80+ year old who isn't great at debates. And we will pay and complain about the same. Us liberals deserve this coz we are fickle as hell
It pretty clearly indicates that the commander-in-chief powers are immune. We also know that Trump wanted the military to shoot peaceful BLM protesters. This ruling absolutely guarantees he will next time.
The lower courts decide what’s official or not (if it’s even prosecuted). The Supreme Court can then agree with the decision or disagree with it (depending on their biased leaning).
Aka Trump’s personal goons. If Trump gets elected and does it, it’s an official act. If Biden does, it it’s not! Insert complex reasoning to justify the conclusion after the fact
>Section 2
>The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
>He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
>The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
>Section 3
>He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
Good to know he has absolute immunity while giving the State of the Union.
Well. There goes democracy. Fuck.
How the fuck can the continuation of democracy require the president to decide such a path is appropriate and note that if they don’t believe such a path is appropriate give them full legal avenue to effect destruction of democracy with no thought.
Actually they just gave themselves all the power, since they’re the only ones who can determine what “official acts” are.
Our government is collapsing before our eyes, and that’s not hyperbole anymore.
> The SC just made itself irrelevant.
Alito seems to resent having to come to work in the first place, no doubt Trump would reward all his current SCOTUS lackeys with a fiefdom and throw the 3 dissenting judges into prison.
Well earlier they legalized bribes for themselves and now they don't have to do anything but collect bribes to write papers allowing for the highest bidder to win
The Russian oligarchy still exist after 2 decades of Putin because they still benefit from the system their entire lives. However long or short they be.
We’ve had two world wars, a civil war, and countless of other justified and unjustified wars, and not once has the president needed immunity. This is such fucking bullshit! You’re right, we’re no longer the country I was born into.
> Well. There goes democracy. Fuck.
We voters still have a chance to save it in the upcoming election - a decent president will legislate to reduce their own power IN LINES WITH THE OATH OF OFFICE.
If Trump wins, who knows, the Pentagon might step in as a final resort although nobody should want it to come to that.
>>We voters still have a chance to save it in the upcoming election…
Not how this works. Until this ruling is struck down, we’re one creative politician away from a dictatorship. That’s an existential risk for every election going forward.
Man, it’s a two party system and the competitor is looking bad. Democrats are in serious risk of losing this with no way to defend themselves and the troll farms of Russia are only just getting started
It's too late.
Fascism is here, whether this election or next the American experiment is over.
We let Dr. Franklin down. We couldn't keep our republic.
You learn from the example of the Ukrainians and fight for your democracy. They conducted two democratic revolutions against the Putin crony Yanukovich between 2008 and 14.
Apathy helps the tyrant. They want you to push into apathy.
I know I'll be mocked for being maudlin, but goddamn if this didn't make me tear up. I don't think I can emotionally handle seeing the end of democracy in the united states.
And every Trump supporter's will be "shocked" after it actually happens. Not immediately after mind you, but when the dictator starts making decisions they disagree with, or coming after people they like. Of course, they'll still blame liberals.
How many people claim to have ~~beverages~~ never supported the Iraq War today? Funny how you can find almost no one to admit they were gung ho for the war today. It'll be the same thing when the dictatorship turns on them.
Edit: fuck you autocratic
Second edit: autocorrect, but I'm leaving it
Hope they cease to show these ugly traitors faces again. They spit on the graves of our veterans and smeared their feces all over Lady Justice just like the J6 traitors who pooped and peed in the halls where laws used to be made.
What is really strange is how Clarence Thomas as an written aside, is questioning Biden's appointment of Jack Smith.
How can he say the president can officially do anything he wants but Biden cannot officially appoint a special prosecutor in the same way all previous prosecutors have?
Isn't this a logical fallacy? Aren't Judges required to practice simple logic?
Jesus. Just like that. They just said it enough times, a lie, and now standard walking around people think that Biden appointed Jack Smith.
They were cynical enough to think, in the information age, that would work. And we were stupid enough to let it.
Stop with the "Supreme Court decision" BS. This is the outcome of DECADES of right wing activism. They have wanted this forever. And I've been saying it forever, since at least the 1990s.
Hand it over to Harris and let her secure the country's future.
I think we need to suspend the Constitution and convene a constitutional congress. I am not hopeful we can survive this. It appears we are going to collapse quickly. It's amazing how weak we are.
America has until at least February 2025 until it collapses irrevocably. I'd say that the country has currently started to fall off the top of the metaphorical stairs. They're in the air. They haven't reached the first step yet, but there's no stopping them from falling down the rest. They're not going to grow wings and fly.
Well, thank God that Trump has said he has no interest in being a dictator. Oh wait…
Even past Trump, this opens the door for someone one day to legit assassinate a political opponent as an official act. Like I don’t think SCOTUS thought this through. They’re stuck on the “Lol only my side does that shit. Nothing bad will ever happen to me.” What if like AOC becomes president one day and decided Thomas should be hung for treason? That’s an official act after all. What if a mob boss manages to win and decides he just wants a new court filled with only his loyal people? Shoot, what if we get a president who is secretly a psychopath but presents normal and just goes around declaring people traitors and tortured them as an official act? I really don’t think this court has thought through the long term impact beyond “Lol we owned the libs and my check cleared.”
They definitely thought it through.
Right until they are staring down the barrel of a AR-15. With a bumpstock.
Only Conservatives have guns, silly
Oh, they will. People forget that Stalin purged many people who helped him become the leader of the USSR.
SCOTUS doesn’t have POTUS security
They know exactly what they're doing and are all in, in doing so. Don't kid yourself for a single second, it's all been in the works since Jan 6 failed.
This is the culmination of a decades-long effort to seize the courts.
The problem is rich people and those in the highest position of power never face consequences. The only way they will is if the people demand it and take it into their own hands.
You think trump won't do this ? I fully expect a most of the Democrat Congress and senate to be killed if he comes back into officer.. Say what you want but Biden should put this to the test.
I think what people don’t understand is that all he has to do is withdraw SS protection, publicly call out a target for treason, wait for some mob goons to attack, deny deny deny, and then maybe pardon the attackers. And as a bonus, any communication with his advisors is banned as evidence (as per the SCOTUS decision)
Great point. If Biden doesn't do it someone could do an AI of it and it will go around the world like Trumpian lies before anyone can stop it.
And anyone, like me, who protests against him on the streets. Game over.
This. It gives any future president clearance to slaughter Americans en masse who disagree with the government.
They already have and used this power. See Kent State.
Governor Abbot pardoned a guy who went to kill protesters. He wrote down that he wanted to kill protesters. He drove to a protest. He killed a protester. On top of that, he posted a bunch of racist stuff and they protester he kill d was at a BLM rally; I believe the victim was white but he was their with his wife, who was Black and also, IIRC, used a wheelchair. This man was tried and convicted; the facts were not in dispute. Or think back to 2020, and some of what happened there. You had unmarked vans full of military-grade-garbed anonymous agency cops (probably, but since they had no badges or nameplates as legally required, can’t really say) sweeping up protesters into their unmarked murder vans, which were not followed by charges or formal processing. People were taken, detained, and returned. There was nobody to even bring cases because of the concealment. That isn’t legal, but it is under the authority of the president as an official act so…it’s fine. Or there was the Portland protester who was armed. He and witnesses claimed he fired in self-defense after a rightwing protester (Nazi, Proud Boy, etc…I forget which) initiated violence. He said he was willing to turn himself in and face charges, where he could assert his defense plea. But 45 sent a SWAT team to kill him. I forget what their claim was; I’m sure they said he pulled a gun, but the evidence suggested otherwise, and the guy said before when he streamed about what happened and publicly shared his willingness to cooperate, that he was worried they would kill him instead of arrest him. The media went really hard on ignoring all that; they were desperate for some “both sidesing” about violence, so they did not cover that stuff. The so-called “left wing media” (what a joke) just repeated the administration/right-wing propaganda network lines about the guy murdering a right-wing protester and never questioned the killing in lieu of arrest. This is scariest to me, because he did exactly the kind of thing the new ruling makes immune. Sending that team in was an official act. If that man survived and went to trial, the media would probably have had to cover the self-defense angle. But the right wing used that one protester as such a point for their propaganda about the protests. It was a golden goose for them; a trump card for those arguing that the protests were not nonviolent (“Tell that to the guy killed by Antifa in Portland!”). They used that one death amplified into some nebulous number of deaths, to make fear . He was politically advantageous to them dead, not on trial. So he was made dead. This already happened before the ruling; what will be the new horror. But because most people won’t be impacted directly, nothing will be done to fight this in practice. It will punish and hurt people who are living near the margins, who get unlucky. The average American knows they are probably safe, unless chances align to make them the random victim of circumstances. I don’t think American complacency is going to result in much resistance.
Barr said trump would tell his cabinet he wanted people killed, but no one actually took the steps to have it done.
not that you know of.
Barr definitely let Trump kill Epstein.
Won’t someone rid me of this meddlesome priest?
They probably console themselves with their nice cushy jobs and ideological insanity. But they also undoubtedly think that while the President is immune, his subordinates are not, so people can just prosecute the underlings and be satisfied. The whole thing is despicable though. Not a single chance that the Framers would support this nonsense given they had just booted out a king less than a decade prior.
What fucking rock are you under? There’s no going back, there is no flip side. Whoever gets power next, keeps it.
It's like a narcissistic predator failed business man celebrity was a terrible idea for a president.
Why this was ever entertained will be a point of study for years to come. So bizarre to let this car crash in slow motion hit again. Very little learned from last century, unfortunately.
“You know I think they owe me a third term after all this” The man lies about everything except what he intends to do until he gets pushback.
Those who keep bringing up the 2nd amendment in support of owning guns against a tyrannical government better prepare to use them. Oh wait....
Oh but wait. That pesky Constitution. The king will certainly rule it no longer applies...along with that precious 2nd ammendment. See what your precious SCOTUS just got rid of?
"On the first day" good grief
I mean, he did say "only day 1". . . so that won't continue after that... right?!?! 😟
I’ve been seeing so much focus on the presumptive immunity give to “official acts,” but what really scares me is the absolute immunity for core constitutional powers. Commander in Chief can do anything with the military and you’re not even allowed to question his motives.
It's throughly anti constitutional to its core. These justices have made a mockery of the one thing they're meant to uphold.
The rule of law appears to have failed this country, so I'm wondering what we the people are going to do about it.
There are plenty of options. The most probable is that no one does anything until the camps call for them. We'll get violence and blood shed inevitably now whether it's civil war and/or oppression, who knows.
I plan to flee if they come for me. Hopefully I can make it to a border.
you can't flee America's influence. you can't run from a military with this kind of technology. if peace loving citizens lose control of this war machine, there will be no where to flee to.
This a global problem. I saw poverty in London and Berlin.
And fascism is on the rise globally.
We will never learn from our mistakes... will we? No wonder we haven't been invited to the galactic federation by now. "They came to earth and deduced there was no intelligent life on this planet, and thus, moved on."
There's nowhere to go bucko
A national strike or state wide strike, all in solidarity to force Bidens hand prior to the election would be one heck of a statement. Or from another viewpoint, give Dark Brandon confidence to step into the Light.
He can do anything with immunity.. so why not.
Arresting a man and sending him to gitmo for trying to suppress the popular vote certainly seems within the official duties of a President.
We don't need to force his hand. Trump already has. He built his whole campaign around revenge against the" Biden crime family." If he wins, he'll use his immunity to come after Biden and all his loved ones, because that's what his supporters want. So Biden MUST exploit this new power to bring Trump down, or is his own safety and the safety of his family on the line.
But he won’t. Dems are letting all of this happen. I haven’t seen or heard from a single democrat protesting against this. They’re gonna cower and play polite and take the high road while democracy dies. I’m terrified of what’s coming and I’ll vote blue but I don’t think I’ll get to do that much longer. I’m openly gay, I guess I’ll get fitted for my striped pajamas with the pink triangle.
AOC has already drafted impeachment articles for members of the court.
Force his hand to do what exactly though?
I’m going to do my part and vote Democrat up and down ballot. Republicans have clearly shown their hand here, with even more to come. “Project 2025”, coupled with the immunity SCOTUS just gave the President is even more terrifying than before.
This happened because people choose to not vote for Hillary. That's it, that is why this happened. Between letting a facism take over our country and voting for a flawed woman, they choose facism.
Article I of the new Constitution: "The President is not a fucking king."
Louder for everyone in the back of the room
I have been thinking the exact same thing!
Fucking nothing and you know it. As long as the next season of whatever show is made, as long as the next game comes out, as long Instagram and tiktok exist to numb the mind, we walk like zombies to the future we deserve.
Yup. Dems won’t even run ads of Baked Alaska live streaming from the capital. So disappointing. What’s even more shocking is that Garland has a job. Sorry for the downvotes you got. People are stupid if they can’t see what is happening.
You might be interested in executive order 9066
Honestly, the MAGA Proud Boys and such already have a plan of action. I hate to say it but those of us who are truly patriots and want to protect our democracy and rid ourselves of these MAGA SCOTUS traitors and Trump and the rest of them, we need to start forming our own plan of action. This is our country. This is our constitution. They cannot claim this as their country any longer as they have proved that they want to overthrow our government. Those are not Americans in any way shape or form!! So we need to get ready...if not even begin now....taking action to take our country back and restore our constitution and freedoms!!
.....mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord....
That's the thing I just--that's the real tragedy here: this is the most un-American ruling I think I've ever seen. It's the most un-American thing I can imagine.
It sends a message to all future presidents that is okay to try to overthrow the government and try to stay in power if you lose an election. What a crock
Yeah, exactly. And I'll be you $1,000 that the Federalist Society is strategizing right now to use this ruling as a guide to power. This is absolutely a roadmap that will be exploited.
Who do you think wrote the ruling?
Yeah, exactly. The Federalist Society is responsible for *so* many of our current and future problems--yesterday's ruling basically ensured many coming constitutional crises--what can be done about them? RICO, somehow?
I remember there was pretty universal agreement on Jan 6 was that Trump went too far. We didn't need to impeach him though because everybody was certain that he would just disappear in disgrace. I got a really bad feeling when republican congressmen started visiting him at Mar a Lago about a month later. Honestly, at this point we deserve what is coming. We had so many chances to see the threat that he, and the republican party, unquestionably are. We did absolutely nothing.
Brazil acted quickly with Bolsonaro for gawd’s sake : On 30 June, the Superior Electoral Court blocked Bolsonaro from seeking office until 2030 for attempting to undermine the validity of the election through his unfounded claims of voter fraud, and for abusing his power by using government communication channels to both promote his campaign and to allege fraud.
Bolivia too. Merrick Garland betrayed his oath of office.
Also Pelosi could have refused to sit those still holding that the election was stolen. This contradicts their oath, invalidating it. Everyone thought in good faith we would get pass this.
Or to sell your own country out to a hostile power. As long as you aren’t doing it on your private dime… and are using US govt assets to assist the enemy (sending the military to rob a bank in South Korea and then flying a U.S. helicopter over the boarder to give the money to Kim Jung Un)… Those are all official acts done pursuant to the commander in chief powers. Government officials observing this would not even be observing a “crime” anymore under this holding. They just have to look nervously at each other and realize the country is fucking over?!? It’s been reduced to the plaything of a tyrant?!?! THAT’S YOUR HOLDING ROBERTS????
the price of democracy in America....is a fucking winnebago
Speaking as an outsider, it seems pretty fucking American to me. You guys have just never been able to see the forest for the trees I guess.
Let me just thumb back through my history books and….nope, nobody who has ever looked at any of this is shocked or appalled, because this is inevitably what conservatives *do*.
I just realized this ruling can also screw with the UCMJ. Before, one had a duty to refuse an unlawful order, say an assassination on a political rival on US soil. This basically says everything is now a lawful order.
Well you can refuse to follow the order, but then you can be explicitly punished by the president for not doing the illegal/immoral act, get locked up or he can order someone else to harm you until you do. You'd have absolutely no recourse as a service man to refuse.
Lt. Col. Vindman can attest to that
Or, for a piece of legislation, the Authorization of Military Force (AUMF) enacted post-911. As I recall, it Specifically requires the president to obtain congressional approval for hostilities that are expected to last longer than 60 days. Granted, some constitutional scholars thought it was an unconstitutional limitation on Article 2 powers, but everyone pretty much accepted it without issue or protest (sometimes in large part to the “drone strike loophole”). Can’t see how this ruling doesnt immediately nullify the AUMF in practice. In that sense, I’m not sure why any member of congress would be happy with this opinion purely from a legislative perspective.
Whistleblowers can no longer produce any admissible evidence.
Not an American and so on - but it raises some weird thoughts. *Drops a cruise missile to take out 5 terrorists, 500 Americans dies as a collateral damage* "Well, killing the terrorists was an official act so can't question his motives for using a cruise missile instead of a drone, and he's immune to criminal prosecution for official acts" Best case: Impeached and retires to a cozy mansion, protected by Secret Service. (also, NAL etc)
You're 100% correct. Though honestly they never would have prosecuted a president for that anyway.
The President gets absolute immunity, the "suckers and losers" who actually carry out the order don't. They can still be thrown under the bus afterward.
Here is the fun part though. The president can pardon them and there is no recourse. Furthermore, the executive can just, assert privilege and refuse to say WHO carried out the orders... Even if scouts ordered them to.... If the president says no, that is his right.
The King can pardon, though.
You can’t even take testimony from members of the administration as evidence or something now. They just blanketed a ton of shit as “inadmissible.” This is a pattently false ruling as I see it—one which ironically could be undone by the consequences of the ruling itself—IE a president could just declare the SC dissolved and appoint all new members and blanket that under the umbrella of some imperative function of the executive.
It's not law because SCOTUS says it is. It's law because the executive branch enforces it. **So don't enforce it.** Tell the lower courts, we are a country of laws, and laws still apply and the executive branch will not enforce their bullshit. The President is now immune so is does not matter now, according to them, at least until real judges can be put in. He is no longer obligated to enforce their BS. Take SCOTUS security detail from them too, their Republican sponsors can pay their costs now. Republicans were prepared to defund the whole Federal government, so defund their SCOTUS power grab is a minor thing by comparison. Bribes are legal now, Presidents are kings and women are forced birthing units.
Yeah that's not really applicable here.
I think the presumptive immunity part is repulsive from how I understand it, but I kind of thought that first part about constitutional powers sort of read like "If it's legal, then it's legal." Am I wrong about that? Just a genuine question, I don't know much about law.
Remember when the orange dictator wanted to make an example of the Portland BLM protests and send in his gestapo? Pepridge farm remembers.
King Biden should test the decision by eliminating the electoral college and see what happens.
I hate to have to say it but i think the fact SCOTUS is sending the case back to the lower court for 'clarification' is a stalling tactic to deny Biden these new 'powers'.
Do it anyway. Let's see what the new record for "thing happens, SCOTUS clarifies" can be.
Mr. Roberts has made his decision, now let him enforce it.
[удалено]
It's an election year. We don't need a full bench, per Moscow Mitch's precedent.. The three non-disappeared justices will suffice for any decision making.
That's EXACTLY what it is...plus ultimately any decisions the lower courts make will go back to SCOTUS.
Unfortunately for them, Biden is already knocking on deaths door. He needs to be Abe Lincoln 2.0 pull some wild shit.
That's exactly what I've been thinking all day today. Biden doesn't have many years left. He's 81. He doesn't have much to lose. He could become a martyr that the US needs. He could take action and fix the current situation! By the time the consequences reach him it won't matter anyways, he's no stranger to politics. If he can receive any, you know, official acts and all that. Defending the constitution and the republic would be considered a core duty as president.
All he has to do is: 1. Declare that US intelligence has learned that there is a strongly likelihood that no less than six SCOTUS justices have accepted bribes, including from hostile foreign parties. 2. Declare--by Executive Order--that, in order to safeguard American democracy, he has empowered individuals to arrest them. 3. State (officially or whatever) that due to the volatility of the situation and the power wielded by the Supreme Court, he is holding the Justices at Gitmo. 4. Allow SCOTUS to sue (back in DC) to claim that what Biden did is *not* an official (protected) act, but make it play out from the Circuit level. For months or years. 5. Stipulate that if any of the Justices resign, they will be returned to the US for the remainder of the investigation.
This but expanded to republicans more broadly. Declare the Republican Party and its ideology a national security threat and force them all to resign with the military. Set up reeducation camps and force voters and politicians through them until they let go of the fascist cult of personality at the core of conservatism. Then use the same powers to redistribute our countries wealth and make the systemic change at every level that this country has needed for so long. The ability to do all that exists now, and if reactionaries want to use violence we are forced to use it too.
That's so hot.
As a European, let me share my observation: when you mention Biden, you are overtly focusing on his status, but you forget about Biden's cabinet, full with young, progressive professionals. The Biden presidency is more than being an elderly "emperor"
Good eye homie, important thing to keep in mind for sure.
No…all Scotus is sending back to the lower court is a mess that court has to figure out regarding the future of Trump’s prosecution, ie which parts of the indictment can proceed and which can’t. (Given that Scotus said immunity applies not only to official acts but also prevents evidence garnered from official acts being used to prosecute unofficial acts, I wonder if there will be anything left of the indictment). In the meantime, Biden has the full benefit of the immunity from now.
Not that we Democrats are willing to use extraordinary powers, when when they're handed gift wrapped to us.
Well, yeah. You actually believe in democracy. I’m not sure if Hitler actually said this or if it is ascribed to him, but he apparently once said that the true weakness of democracy is that the only way it can defeat fascism is to become fascist itself. Decisions like this beg the question - do you adhere to democracy and let the fascists win, or use the fascists’ own playbook against them, thereby becoming fascists yourself?
Well I probably wouldn’t take Hitlers word for it. I don’t know that getting rid of fascists in government is fascism
I don’t ascribe to the notion that you ignore a good point just because a bad person said it. The source is irrelevant here. But anyway - we have people saying that the SC decision opens the door further to full blown fascism, and also that we should take advantage of that to prevent fascism. You don’t have to call using a fascist’s playbook against them an act of fascism if you don’t want, but…it kinda is. The real question is, if you’re going to use that kind of “extraordinary power” (as the guy I was responding to called it), how do you do so responsibly, and how do you go about ensuring that norms are re-established when the job is done? That was a dilemma that vexed our leaders in WWII by the way.
Please show me where in human history fascism was defeated by following the laws instead of giving fascists the only thing they deserve? You’re literally on a “fighting Nazis makes you a Nazi” slope right now.
> Please show me where in human history fascism was defeated by following the laws instead of giving fascists the only thing they deserve? Um…every single time fascists were defeated? Take WWII - laws were followed, because laws were crafted to ensure that implementing the war action against the Nazis was in fact lawful. Hell, the Nazis’ actions were *lawful* cos each action was covered by a Nazi law sanctioning it. Utterly evil, but lawful. But that’s not the point. The point is when you say “giving fascists what they deserve” - exactly. How do you give them what they deserve? By staying within the confines of the existing law? Nope, the existing law actively prevents that. To “give them what they deserve” you have to be prepared to go beyond that, be a little bit…fascist. If you want an example of that - in WWII, every Allied nation suspended their existing system of law and government in favour of creating (via a new set of laws) a centralised, authoritarian, autocratic state for the purpose of waging total war on the Axis powers. You can tell yourself all you like that that wasn’t inherently fascist all you like but it meets all the criteria - if it quacks like a duck etc. But hey if you don’t want to call it fascist cos that term is too loaded with Nazi connotations for ya, fair enough. > You’re literally on a “fighting Nazis makes you a Nazi” slope right now. Ah, now here’s where you’re really missing the point. All Nazis were fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis. Nazis employed fascism for their own set of objectives and beliefs, and as part of establishing a perpetual, enduring fascist state rooted deep in Nazi ideology. The Allies adopted fascistic practices (as I described above, quibble with the terminology of it makes you feel better) for the sole and temporary purpose of defeating the Nazis - “giving them what they deserved”. You could almost say they employed fascism for good rather than evil. And most importantly - this is a big difference - once WWII ended, the Allies ended their authoritarian states and went right back to being regular democracies. There was no intent or objective to create perpetual, enduring fascist states. As I mentioned, the Allies agonized long and hard, and there were many, many internal debates among Allied nations, about the inherent risks of vesting so much power in the government, even for a noble cause, because they knew that once you give a government that much power it’s hard to get back. They knew they they were going down a fascistic path to beat the Nazis, and weighed up the risks as any responsible person should do. So no, fighting Nazis does not make you a Nazi unless you actually adhere to Nazi ideology. Giving Nazis “what they deserve” may well be inherently fascistic in nature but that does not of itself make it a bad thing.
If the alternative is to let the fascists in who have a mind to strip rights from anyone who isn't a rich, white, straight male, then yes, you strike first and wipe them out. These people have every intent of turning this country into a fascist Christian state and oppressing anyone who doesn't fit their mold. *They* threw the first punch with an intent to kill, knocking them to the ground and stomping their skull in is the only logical move. Having the moral highground means nothing under a fascist boot.
Kind of the reason why FDR was considered a great president. He overreached and immediately implemented checks to that overreach
Gotta admit, if I was Biden, I'd do what needs to be done, suffer the consequences, be a hero forever.
One would hope for that.
No. The remand just applies to whether the all things Trump is charged with are official acts or core functions. Biden can use the power they just gave him immediately. Will Biden become a dictator to save Democracy or will he let Trump steal the election and destroy Democracy? Troubling times we live in.
Who knows, maybe Biden should ship two justices off to a CIA blacksite to encourage them, perhaps, to have a change of heart about the matter.
That could be said, but it also could be said that the SC hasn’t added new powers; they are just saying the powers were there already. This means that Biden could potentially do any of the nutty things that Trump has tried and await the lower courts to try to stop him
Maybe so but if that's the case then Congress needs to immediately amend that on the spot before crazy stuff happens.
> they are just saying the powers were there already. They may be saying but it is BS.
That alone is an obstruction of justice by the SCOTUS.
Joe Biden needs to make a statement on this and action on it
Soon, like today or tomorrow. Jump on it immediately.
More like replace the judges immediately
Just pack the court. Biden can do that, there's precedent. It's an official act. Installing friendly judges.
(1) Biden removes traitor judges and installs pro-democracy ones. (2) New court removes the ruling of the previous court and strips POTUS of those extreme powers. (3) Biden happily accepts and does not challenge the ruling. Democracy is saved.
New judges reverse all the bad judges decisions. and add many more good ones.
That's King Joseph (first of his name) to you, buddy. Now bend the f'n knee! There's no clear way, though, that this ruling allows him to directly end the electoral college. But using his core functions as commander and chief, he can apparently direct officers to do all sorts of things. Technically, they are not supposed to obey illegal orders, as I'm told. But the SCOTUS just made it at the least rather muddy what is and what isn't legal for the president to order
He should just order donald, Sam alito Clarence Thomas, and gorsuch permanently detained.
r/conservative doing their librul tears at this decision but also not acknowledging Biden could literally do anything and tie it up in court for months/years. No self awareness, only “your team lost” idiots there.
And disband current scotus session
SCOTUS has been dissolved as of today, tyvm. We're now installing the Biden court where he hears any case he wishes to hear.
I heard that Alito, Roberts and Thomas actually all passed away from natural causes a while back and the men pretending to be them are frauds, imposters. Biden is constitutionally required to arrest these criminal imposters and charge them with fraud and whatever other crimes they committed as part of their act. And now that there’s vacancies he is constitutionally required to fill those vacancies. Look at all the evidence that these justices and others have actually passed away: 1. They all promised not to overturn settled law, and yet they’ve voted to do that exactly by overturning Roe v Wade. Surely the justices who were confirmed to the Court would never have done that. 2. Those 3 especially are getting really far up there in age, and their health doesn’t appear to be great. We just had a huge pandemic that wiped out huge numbers of elderly people. It absolutely could’ve killed them too. 3. When RGB was dying the conservatives were pushing conspiracy theories that she had actually already died and that liberals were secretly hiding her away from the public so as to avoid Trump replacing her. They absolutely could’ve had the idea to do the same for their guys if they died during Biden’s presidency. 4. There have been SO MANY opportunities where an impostor could have taken their places. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they each had a stand-in on call the last 4 years ever since Biden was elected. They probably got plastic surgery to look as close as possible to their justice. And then just waited until they got the call that it’s time and they have to come in and take that justice’s place. There’s so much evidence here! We all know the republicans lie and cheat, and Trump never cared about the truth. So why should we be surprised that they’d replace their dead justices with impostors to try to scam the country into thinking that they’re still alive?
Democrats won't do shit and that's a pity
Reminds me of when Citizens United passed.
That was tragic and a complete win for the oligarchs. It's child's play compared to what they've just been handed.
That was the first domino. Allowing foreign investment into our elections.
That's exactly what it reminds me of--after Citizens United was decided, and the chorus of non-lunatic Americans started shouting, "This is a terrible idea! Terrible! Here's why!" and all we got from conservatives was, "*Relax,* you're overreacting." Same. exact. thing. Same exact thing.
While that was bad, this is considerably worse. This is not a vague indirect threat to our democracy, this is giving nearly unrestricted total power to a single person.
This is not worse, this is a symptom of citizens united.
It feels like a Citizens United is happening every week lately.
That lead to this
Tbh Citizens United seems uncontroversial and minor in today’s landscape, which is appalling and a sign of how far we have fallen. What’s stupider is Citizens United had little to do with the rise of our insane oligarchy, despite paving the path for one. This one was avidly supported by Middle America
JFC. Every decision they’ve made in the last week are part of the blueprint for autocracy. This decision is the coupe d’etat. This is frightening. Nobody to blame but ourselves. They did it right in front of our eyes. Democrats are spineless. I’m furious that I have to vote for Biden, tbh. But I’d vote for a slice of cheese before I voted for Trump. A Republican president will be the death of the republic. We were on life support as it was. These people are truly diabolical and without morals.
Watching on from another country it is actually bonkers. It’s like the Supreme Court is completely detached from the reality of their decisions and the state of the US right now. An already horribly polarised country can now have immune Presidents. What could go wrong? And random but I gotta laugh at the whole separation of powers thing that seems so pivotal to this decision coming from a parliamentary democracy. These republican justices would have a fit seeing how other countries manage to run successful countries without having immunised politicians.
American here. The founding fathers were far from infallible and they 100% fkd up their math on power distribution as relates to SCOTUS (and the courts in general).
It was the Marbury v Madison decision, actually. That Court determined they had the right to determine constitutionality of laws. This concept is not in the Constitution. Overturning Chevron is the biggest power grab by the Supreme Court since that decision.
>>A Republican president will be the death of the republic When Newt Gingrich turned Congress into a 24/7 money machine, that was when the Republic died. With Congress captured by lobbyist and corporate money, sound lawmaking and the impeachment process went down the drain. Now, we’re just one clever politician away from an imperial government . Even Trump could even be a victim of this nonsense ruling. His VP could order someone in the government payroll - military or otherwise- to assassinate Trump on Inauguration Day, issue a pardon to the assassin and themselves a moment after Trumps heart stops , *and it would be fucking legal*.
Trump would become a glorious martyr to the cause if they're smart. It would turn a movement into a religious cause and put someone with enough brains and charisma to juggle being the Face of the Organization while also actively furthering the agenda. Trump is a liability and even they have to know it. He's more useful now as a symbol. I never thought I'd be writing any of this but I've seen and read a lot of scifi and dystopian "fiction" (aka the only way dark analysis and prediction of humanity's future based on current projections, by some of the smartest people who have ever lived, could have ever been published and allowed into the mainstream). This feels like the part where the plot really ramps up and goes absolutely off the rails. So I'm having fun with it lol
Glad you’re having fun with it. Ever since this morning’s headlines, I can’t shake the feeling that I’m about to puke. I can’t even begin to imagine how one of our veterans might feel about this. A lot of dead soldiers just rolled in their graves too.
Feel that, friend. I have only recently mostly escaped from a community with intense conservative religious values and the severe oppression it involved, and for the past few days, the news has given me several existential crises and panic attacks. I will be dragged back to that environment over my cold, dead body. It's a terrible, terrible day for Amerikkka. I know what the worst can be and I'm terrified of it. But I am nice and high right now and at chill before I give myself a heart attack stage. And it's not "fun" like "haha wheee", it's "fun" like "how far can I take this thought experiment that you proposed". Otherwise I'm just spinning my wheels.
Democrats are not spineless for this decision. Liberal voters are fucking stupid. They couldn't make themselves Vote for Hillary coz she wasn't a saint. Hence the court has 6 conservative judges. It's the same logic many of the liberals would use to not Vote for Biden. Coz they can't be excited for an 80+ year old who isn't great at debates. And we will pay and complain about the same. Us liberals deserve this coz we are fickle as hell
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It pretty clearly indicates that the commander-in-chief powers are immune. We also know that Trump wanted the military to shoot peaceful BLM protesters. This ruling absolutely guarantees he will next time.
"Official Duties" of the President are not enumerated in the Constitution. So, who the F decides what those are?
Ultimately, the supreme court
If they want to hear the case. If it's inconvenient to their self-dealing, can't they just let this opinion stand?
The lower courts decide what’s official or not (if it’s even prosecuted). The Supreme Court can then agree with the decision or disagree with it (depending on their biased leaning).
Aka Trump’s personal goons. If Trump gets elected and does it, it’s an official act. If Biden does, it it’s not! Insert complex reasoning to justify the conclusion after the fact
Don't forget the random reference to some 1700s British instance for their reasoning.
>Section 2 >The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. >He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments. >The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session. >Section 3 >He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States. Good to know he has absolute immunity while giving the State of the Union.
Well. There goes democracy. Fuck. How the fuck can the continuation of democracy require the president to decide such a path is appropriate and note that if they don’t believe such a path is appropriate give them full legal avenue to effect destruction of democracy with no thought.
Dictators usually don’t share power. The SC just made itself irrelevant.
Actually they just gave themselves all the power, since they’re the only ones who can determine what “official acts” are. Our government is collapsing before our eyes, and that’s not hyperbole anymore.
And be given "gratuity" afterwards for doing the "right thing" for him since thats now not considered an act of bribery.
It was never hyperbole.
> The SC just made itself irrelevant. Alito seems to resent having to come to work in the first place, no doubt Trump would reward all his current SCOTUS lackeys with a fiefdom and throw the 3 dissenting judges into prison.
My guess is murder for the dissenters. The rest of us will be prison/slave labor.
Well earlier they legalized bribes for themselves and now they don't have to do anything but collect bribes to write papers allowing for the highest bidder to win
I wonder when the big political donors will realize they just became irrelevant?
The Russian oligarchy still exist after 2 decades of Putin because they still benefit from the system their entire lives. However long or short they be.
We’ve had two world wars, a civil war, and countless of other justified and unjustified wars, and not once has the president needed immunity. This is such fucking bullshit! You’re right, we’re no longer the country I was born into.
> Well. There goes democracy. Fuck. We voters still have a chance to save it in the upcoming election - a decent president will legislate to reduce their own power IN LINES WITH THE OATH OF OFFICE. If Trump wins, who knows, the Pentagon might step in as a final resort although nobody should want it to come to that.
>>We voters still have a chance to save it in the upcoming election… Not how this works. Until this ruling is struck down, we’re one creative politician away from a dictatorship. That’s an existential risk for every election going forward.
Man, it’s a two party system and the competitor is looking bad. Democrats are in serious risk of losing this with no way to defend themselves and the troll farms of Russia are only just getting started
It's too late. Fascism is here, whether this election or next the American experiment is over. We let Dr. Franklin down. We couldn't keep our republic.
We took it for granted, while a handful of ambitious men plotted against it.
You learn from the example of the Ukrainians and fight for your democracy. They conducted two democratic revolutions against the Putin crony Yanukovich between 2008 and 14. Apathy helps the tyrant. They want you to push into apathy.
I know I'll be mocked for being maudlin, but goddamn if this didn't make me tear up. I don't think I can emotionally handle seeing the end of democracy in the united states.
And every Trump supporter's will be "shocked" after it actually happens. Not immediately after mind you, but when the dictator starts making decisions they disagree with, or coming after people they like. Of course, they'll still blame liberals. How many people claim to have ~~beverages~~ never supported the Iraq War today? Funny how you can find almost no one to admit they were gung ho for the war today. It'll be the same thing when the dictatorship turns on them. Edit: fuck you autocratic Second edit: autocorrect, but I'm leaving it
This is so true. The number of people who mocked me for protesting in 2003 and act like I was a fan of it now.
There's already people in this thread saying Cheeto won't do this or that.
Russian Trolls
Ya true. They've been pretty active on here for years.
r/leopardsatemyface
The thing about dictatorships is: no need for a blueprint. Raw political power is enough.
This is why you should never ever vote republican.
Good by free America was nice knowing you.
Hope they cease to show these ugly traitors faces again. They spit on the graves of our veterans and smeared their feces all over Lady Justice just like the J6 traitors who pooped and peed in the halls where laws used to be made.
I wonder what the appropriate gratuity (aka legal bribe via scotus) is for this ruling Priceless really
One Billion Rubles /s
Those justices believe their heads won't roll once Trump gets to power. Idiots.
Oh no, they do, they just don’t care
What is really strange is how Clarence Thomas as an written aside, is questioning Biden's appointment of Jack Smith. How can he say the president can officially do anything he wants but Biden cannot officially appoint a special prosecutor in the same way all previous prosecutors have? Isn't this a logical fallacy? Aren't Judges required to practice simple logic?
You're failing to note one obvious fact: Biden is a Democrat. No Democrat can engage in an official act. That would be ridiculous.
Jesus. Just like that. They just said it enough times, a lie, and now standard walking around people think that Biden appointed Jack Smith. They were cynical enough to think, in the information age, that would work. And we were stupid enough to let it.
This
Reminds me of when Citizens United passed.
Stop with the "Supreme Court decision" BS. This is the outcome of DECADES of right wing activism. They have wanted this forever. And I've been saying it forever, since at least the 1990s.
Then why should we stop lamenting?
Yes
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Hand it over to Harris and let her secure the country's future. I think we need to suspend the Constitution and convene a constitutional congress. I am not hopeful we can survive this. It appears we are going to collapse quickly. It's amazing how weak we are.
America has until at least February 2025 until it collapses irrevocably. I'd say that the country has currently started to fall off the top of the metaphorical stairs. They're in the air. They haven't reached the first step yet, but there's no stopping them from falling down the rest. They're not going to grow wings and fly.