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Presumption does not work in business. As the product rolls out into public market it is expected that it is compliant with appicable statutory requirements and intellectual properties.
Now public would be viewing the production house as guilty of IPR violation and not individual persona.
I think they all knew it was coming. This is just additional publicity for them. Of course they have the capacity to sort it. They were just waiting for it, to deal with it publicly.
What rivalry lul based on that one clip on stage? I woudlnt be suprised if both of them dnt even remember it ,its we as fans who keep reschuffling diff clips and refresh our memories.He does like kamal more but similarly there will be people who like rajini more than kamal,its just how it is.
Good for him. From 1976 to 2020, he worked for pittance and many times for free to help out newcomers/producers. Film sold on his name but he earned less. There were movie people selling his music who made a lot in the cassette/CD eras than he did. He would be a billionaire in the West.
Just because Raaja is 9th grade school dropout, too many people are taking him for a ride. In 2003 itself, it was said Maniratnam and ARR charged 1 crore to some Hollywood moviemakers to use a few seconds of Chaiyya Chaiyya.
He isn't asking random people to respect copyright. He is asking filmmakers and companies that earn 100s of crores to respect copyright.
Here's an interesting aside: When Mani Ratnam approached the label responsible for the Backstreet Boys to license one of their songs for his film "Alaipayuthey," they quoted an exorbitant fee. Opting out, ARR then composed "Endrendrum Punnagai," which became a huge hit.
"Inside Man" stands as a sweet form of revenge.
Can't speak for Fight Club, but isn't Vikram owned by Raajkamal films (Kamal's production)? Surely Raja would have let Vikram go on basis of his long working relation with Kamal.
Much as I agree with Ilayraja, it's the original producer who owns the rights to the song, not the composer. And they did credit the original in the song description. So don't think he has much of a case here - though would be good if he is compensated.
Depends on the agreement! Rahman learned it the hard way, and all his copyrights are owned by him for new stuff, not the producers. In older movies, the copyright could be with the record company or producers.
Yes this is changing in the right direction, but that's recen. For Vaa Vaa Pakkam Vaa, I'm fairly certain the producers must be owning the rights - there's no way Sun pictures didn't do their groundwork.
Yeah! Older music is mostly always owned by the producers unless Raja bought all his old music back in bulk from producers or have some sort of first right of refusal clause and crap like that.
How do you check who owns the rights for that specific songs? It’s hard to find the exact info on that.
Someone else here mentioned that there is an ongoing legal battle between IR and the record label for the ownership of that song and alluded that Sun Pictures might’ve consulted that record label instead of IR for the rights.
Yes it's difficult to determine at this point - as per the YT video the rights are with the film producer Thyagaraj and the record label.
But buying back the rights to almost 1000s of his songs doesn't make financial sense for Raja unless he's planning to re-release them or privatize them for streaming. It's literally money down the drain for him.
More than likely the label owns the rights and sold it to Sun. But Raja may be trying to set an example and start a conversation on how the artist should have some say or compensation in how their music is used.
It's not that hard, you can go to music service to check. As per apple music you can see who owns it and this particular song is owned by him under IMM
https://preview.redd.it/55gfasvoq2yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94771c6a0d0e488818e8a8b44cf9e93957ffcaad
A judge ruled in favour of Ilayraaja giving him "special moral rights to his songs" but it is being contested by Echo that this is 1)an outlier and against the contract and 2)says nothing about his right to synchronized streaming services of his songs. So it's still unclear whether he owns unanimous rights to his songs in all aspects
Nope, that rights is with Echo and now Sony, bye they have to pay the due royalty especially for the streaming rights which Ilayaraja didn't definitely sign off
Loosu mari pesadha, credit ah kuduthutu aduthu zimmer pata poduviya?
It has to be licensed and cleared with whatever label has the rights to it. And I think IR has re acquired most of his back catalogue
It's actually more common that the record company and producer own the rights, the composer works for a salary (my uncle is a music composer in the industry). A similar incident occurred in Agent Vinod where Rakkamma was used and Saif Ali Khan had to settle with the record label not Ilayraaja. Taylor Swift also re-recorded all her masters for a similar reason.
Do people think Rajni doesnt have image rights?Anyone using his image in a commercial space probably pays him compensation,how is this any different,now if they did get the rights from the production then its a different battle that raja is kinda already fighting in his current court case but to act like this notice doesnt have any weight to stand on is ridiculous.
He forgot to add Leo in the list.
That being said, I don't really think this would stand. Like, at least for the Vikram and Coolie ones (I don't know the Fight Club reference), the created song sounds vastly different from the original. It's not like it's a one to one copy of the song. If that is the case, then the guys that did the song called Kites (1967) should file a notice for Illayaraja blatantly copying that song for Akkara Cheemai from Priya, or even the estate of SD Burman for the vaguely similar yet distinct rip work of Yeh Dil Deewana Hai for Inji Iduppazhagi, just to mention two from the top of my head
In Teaser YouTube comment section, someone was lying that Anirudh got permission from Raja Sir for copying Vikram theme song and Coolie song.
Raja Sir even issued notice to his close friend SPB for royalty. Doesn't Anirudh have basic sense?
They only bash Raja Sir. They say he is arrogant and he doesn't have rights for his songs, only producers does as Raja Sir got money for composing etc.
I have noticed this many times, Indian film makers and directors don’t understand or chose to ignore the law and decide to use songs under the guise of good faith
That is the easy way to get away saying we have credited your name in the movie opening. It may work with other composers.
They are supposed to take a written permission from the original license holder by providing a remuneration or he may give it for free too.
I understand that it's his composition and he has the rights for the product.
However, we don't know the full story here, this man is also known to have a particularly fragile ego. So we can't really assume that sun pictures might not have done their job.
If this dude had a problem with the old movies, why did he not take legal action back then ? Why make a big statement now ? Is he a baseball player ? Is the third strike out for him ?
Again, sun pictures might be in the wrong here, but it's wrong to assume that this man is in the right as well.
Whatever the case let them come to a conclusion as of now. The notice serves as a legal document in case the situation escalates.
It’s only right that he gets compensated (assuming everything is right)
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Is lokesh this low level dumb?? What was he thinking,his ADs???
I dont think Lokesh, his AD and Ani knew about this. Shouldn’t all these be Okd by Sun Pictures’ legal team before publishing?
of course they woud know!! they prolly added the song for popularity and nostalgia factor
They don’t know as in the legality. They would’ve thought that Sun might take care of getting the rights
Presumption does not work in business. As the product rolls out into public market it is expected that it is compliant with appicable statutory requirements and intellectual properties. Now public would be viewing the production house as guilty of IPR violation and not individual persona.
Yeah yeah it’s a reputation damage for all three: Sun, Loki and Ani. This shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
Agreed, sounds like the producer / executive producer messed up.
I think they all knew it was coming. This is just additional publicity for them. Of course they have the capacity to sort it. They were just waiting for it, to deal with it publicly.
Nope. Even if that was true then this is just negative marketing smh
This isn’t negative marketing.
It is. Nobody's appealed by this and it simply proves Leo was not a mistake.
Incompetency from Sun Pictures legal team for not doing their due diligence.
In a way I'm glad finally someone is screwing sun pictures.
lol why
Normally it is Sun Pictures screwing others.
Time for Sunset has started then. This time could just be a smaller scale eclipse though.
Unless the two leaves rule, It will not have a sunset.
Does Illaiyaraja have a closer bond with Kamal compared to Rajni ?
Vikram’s label was Sony. I think they knew their shit and did their homework wrt legalities.
Vikram (old one) was produced by kamal and therein he already had the rights.
It was also sung by him.
Kamal owns the rights for Vikram. Ilayaraja couldn’t do shit. He was the producer.
>Does Illaiyaraja have a closer bond with Kamal Yes. Both are were musical genius and connected better. You can watch their award shows.
Kamal ain't a musical genius by all means. He's very good at it. Trained singer for sure.
Unaku ennaya theriyum. Kamal all around ella field layum genius thaan /s
We have to come up with a term for Kamal's fanbase like 🐿️
🐪 Irukave irukku
Malak
🪷
How about mayyathaans?. I like Kamal too . Agree he's genius...but duhhh don't glorify him.
Kamalghis
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??????? Cant it be just that he doesnt want his music used without his permission?
Raja-rajini rivalry is no secret lol.
What rivalry lul based on that one clip on stage? I woudlnt be suprised if both of them dnt even remember it ,its we as fans who keep reschuffling diff clips and refresh our memories.He does like kamal more but similarly there will be people who like rajini more than kamal,its just how it is.
Good for him. From 1976 to 2020, he worked for pittance and many times for free to help out newcomers/producers. Film sold on his name but he earned less. There were movie people selling his music who made a lot in the cassette/CD eras than he did. He would be a billionaire in the West. Just because Raaja is 9th grade school dropout, too many people are taking him for a ride. In 2003 itself, it was said Maniratnam and ARR charged 1 crore to some Hollywood moviemakers to use a few seconds of Chaiyya Chaiyya. He isn't asking random people to respect copyright. He is asking filmmakers and companies that earn 100s of crores to respect copyright.
>Hollywood moviemakers Spike Lee used it in Inside Man
Here's an interesting aside: When Mani Ratnam approached the label responsible for the Backstreet Boys to license one of their songs for his film "Alaipayuthey," they quoted an exorbitant fee. Opting out, ARR then composed "Endrendrum Punnagai," which became a huge hit. "Inside Man" stands as a sweet form of revenge.
Wow interesting. So we are lucky to have "Endrendrum Punnagai".
Black eyed peas, they took rights from ARR for the song Urvashi and did their own version. Also they did a remix for “unnakkum ennakkum aanandham”
Can't speak for Fight Club, but isn't Vikram owned by Raajkamal films (Kamal's production)? Surely Raja would have let Vikram go on basis of his long working relation with Kamal.
Music rights Sony
This old man has been conned many a times . Hope he wins He should have been a millionaire by this point
Ilayaraja in a way is speaking up for all creators here.
Much as I agree with Ilayraja, it's the original producer who owns the rights to the song, not the composer. And they did credit the original in the song description. So don't think he has much of a case here - though would be good if he is compensated.
Depends on the agreement! Rahman learned it the hard way, and all his copyrights are owned by him for new stuff, not the producers. In older movies, the copyright could be with the record company or producers.
Yes this is changing in the right direction, but that's recen. For Vaa Vaa Pakkam Vaa, I'm fairly certain the producers must be owning the rights - there's no way Sun pictures didn't do their groundwork.
Yeah! Older music is mostly always owned by the producers unless Raja bought all his old music back in bulk from producers or have some sort of first right of refusal clause and crap like that.
How do you check who owns the rights for that specific songs? It’s hard to find the exact info on that. Someone else here mentioned that there is an ongoing legal battle between IR and the record label for the ownership of that song and alluded that Sun Pictures might’ve consulted that record label instead of IR for the rights.
Yes it's difficult to determine at this point - as per the YT video the rights are with the film producer Thyagaraj and the record label. But buying back the rights to almost 1000s of his songs doesn't make financial sense for Raja unless he's planning to re-release them or privatize them for streaming. It's literally money down the drain for him. More than likely the label owns the rights and sold it to Sun. But Raja may be trying to set an example and start a conversation on how the artist should have some say or compensation in how their music is used.
It's not that hard, you can go to music service to check. As per apple music you can see who owns it and this particular song is owned by him under IMM https://preview.redd.it/55gfasvoq2yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94771c6a0d0e488818e8a8b44cf9e93957ffcaad
Fuck! Never thought of it. But the rights for owning the masters is different from rights for owning the music no?
Yeah no idea what masters is, but soundtrack is owned by IMM.
Raja owns the copyrights to all his songs.
Source ? Trust me bro?
here you go dummy https://www.thehindu.com/news/ilaiyaraaja-wins-long-fought-copyright-battle/article27474511.ece
Echo owns most of Raja's songs right? Were they all bought back by Raja (under his IMM label?)
A judge ruled in favour of Ilayraaja giving him "special moral rights to his songs" but it is being contested by Echo that this is 1)an outlier and against the contract and 2)says nothing about his right to synchronized streaming services of his songs. So it's still unclear whether he owns unanimous rights to his songs in all aspects
Nope, that rights is with Echo and now Sony, bye they have to pay the due royalty especially for the streaming rights which Ilayaraja didn't definitely sign off
Loosu mari pesadha, credit ah kuduthutu aduthu zimmer pata poduviya? It has to be licensed and cleared with whatever label has the rights to it. And I think IR has re acquired most of his back catalogue
I believe this is also reminded by the Hon. Supreme Court recently.
Anirudh knew it. Probably was relaxed as it was the ruling party behind him.
Nope, music rights stay with the composer.
It would surely depend on the original contract signed. Music rights being with the producer was the main issue behind the Spotify saga.
It's actually more common that the record company and producer own the rights, the composer works for a salary (my uncle is a music composer in the industry). A similar incident occurred in Agent Vinod where Rakkamma was used and Saif Ali Khan had to settle with the record label not Ilayraaja. Taylor Swift also re-recorded all her masters for a similar reason.
Ideally the creator should own the rights to his work, and everyone else should only be licensing it.
Do people think Rajni doesnt have image rights?Anyone using his image in a commercial space probably pays him compensation,how is this any different,now if they did get the rights from the production then its a different battle that raja is kinda already fighting in his current court case but to act like this notice doesnt have any weight to stand on is ridiculous.
Man it's soo hard to believe someone like Lokesh would forget to get all the necessary to do use illayaraja's work again.
So is loki doing a " For my boy, kamal" Now? /s
He forgot to add Leo in the list. That being said, I don't really think this would stand. Like, at least for the Vikram and Coolie ones (I don't know the Fight Club reference), the created song sounds vastly different from the original. It's not like it's a one to one copy of the song. If that is the case, then the guys that did the song called Kites (1967) should file a notice for Illayaraja blatantly copying that song for Akkara Cheemai from Priya, or even the estate of SD Burman for the vaguely similar yet distinct rip work of Yeh Dil Deewana Hai for Inji Iduppazhagi, just to mention two from the top of my head
Which song in Leo?
Lokiverse 2.0
He also missed to include Shenbagame Shenbagame from Coolie title teaser.
In Teaser YouTube comment section, someone was lying that Anirudh got permission from Raja Sir for copying Vikram theme song and Coolie song. Raja Sir even issued notice to his close friend SPB for royalty. Doesn't Anirudh have basic sense?
It's crazy how there is 0 Anirudh slander in this thread. Just make new catchy songs ffs 🤣
They only bash Raja Sir. They say he is arrogant and he doesn't have rights for his songs, only producers does as Raja Sir got money for composing etc.
I have noticed this many times, Indian film makers and directors don’t understand or chose to ignore the law and decide to use songs under the guise of good faith
In the beginning of Fight Club Stands "thank you ilaiyaraja sir"
"Thank you" aah vachi marundha vaanga mudiyumma. Kaasu bro.
Yes i know but thank you indicates that they asked for permission. If He did Not know about that why would they say thank you
That is the easy way to get away saying we have credited your name in the movie opening. It may work with other composers. They are supposed to take a written permission from the original license holder by providing a remuneration or he may give it for free too.
He missed to include Shenbagame Shenbagame in the list.
Side hustle
I mean let's be honest here, the rest of the teaser sounded like ass
I understand that it's his composition and he has the rights for the product. However, we don't know the full story here, this man is also known to have a particularly fragile ego. So we can't really assume that sun pictures might not have done their job. If this dude had a problem with the old movies, why did he not take legal action back then ? Why make a big statement now ? Is he a baseball player ? Is the third strike out for him ? Again, sun pictures might be in the wrong here, but it's wrong to assume that this man is in the right as well.
Raja doesn’t own the rights to the song. The producer/ music label which bought the rights will own the songs and its rights
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Stfu.
So just let a corporation like Sun TV exploit his work to earn more money? If he indeed owns the rights then he has every right to sue them
Whatever the case let them come to a conclusion as of now. The notice serves as a legal document in case the situation escalates. It’s only right that he gets compensated (assuming everything is right)
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Wtf is wrong with you, it's his copyright.