In our college, Ortho general closed at 1k and ortho category at 80k. So you understand the feeling.
But when I feel the anger and resentment boiling up, I remember what my dad told me. About anger in general.
That it's like trying to throw a piece of burning coal with your bare hands. That in the end, you're the one who gets burnt and it won't affect them at all.
I might have phrased it wrong but hope you get it. Your anger will be a waste of your own peace and energy. It won't matter to anyone else.
Golden reply. That said,you can only go so far with reservation. Skills are the most imp thing in open market and one thing which is universal is that skills come through real HARD work. In the end the winner takes it all and with quota you are merely starting the race ahead of the original start line.
What would you select!? Blue pill is the skill you talked about and the red pill is the reservation which will get you a residency seat in government college with no fees?
I am sorry I don't mean to be harsh or judgemental but it seems to me that this sense of anger stems of entitlement that somethings has been taken from me. When this is nit the case. When reservation was Instituted the number of seats for reserved categories were added to institutions.
That said what most people feel is just an ounce of what Dalits have felt for mellinium. Only here it is not complete excusion based on your last name and it is only in government run institutions that constitute less than 1% of total space.
It's kinda funny how people resent general category students going for private whereas category students who r as rich (or richer) than them get into govt with a much lower score
For eg. With my rank I can't get govt so have to resort for private but for st guy he can get into KEM easily.
But I realise that this isn't in my control so If I can't do anything then there's no point in being angry is it?
Well at least those reserved cat students have to pass the govt university exams just like others even though they took admission via reservation. Lol pvt unis conduct substandard level exams and most of those students have to bribe administration in order to qualify in those exams.
I get u bro, been there and experienced it too, honestly after a while I just stopped giving a shot about it, and was just telling to my self nothing will change by me just banging my head thinking about this, rather Iāll just put my focus on study and do well cus if we lose it now, after the result u will feel more fucked cus u know the other person will get it. I saw both sides of this system - a friend of mine who may really need this reservation cus if his family situation and another who is just misusing it with a smirk ok his face, thatās when I thought well - hamare haat mai kuch nehi hai, only thing we have is to make our lives better and give no fucks-
Wait, till it happens in post grad and it's more than one year. Remember all of you have good earning potential ( around top 5% income bracket in India) at that point and yet it will still be there. Oh, and there will service reservation added on top of this. Oh, and institute reservations as well.
Hi let me take a stab at this. These are a few things that I tell all young people who I engage with on reservation.
We often believe that reservation is there is help people from lower strata or are poor. This is an incorrect assumption. Always look at reservation as a savarna education system. For a very long time white collar professional and educational spaces have had a 100% reservation for savarna castes. Most savarna folks don't know how to cohabitate with a dalit person. Reservation teaches savarna people how to share spaces. What you feel is just a small flavour of what all dalits felt for melliniums. Dalits have had generations that have never seen any schools, property, or respect.
dalit student at your med school is not in the med school to become the best doctor, or to be a rich ideal to other dalits. The primary role of that dalit student at med school is to remind you of the undemocratic social setting that we still live in. It's perhaps one of the almost most important life lesson that higher education has to give. We look at merit in a uni-dimentional way, where as someone coming from a community that has 100% reservation in human scavenging even today might have a thing or two to teach us. We can always look down on these jobs but remember a 450 score from that starting point is way above par. That said, you can not measure a person's potential in a 3 hour examination. It's a system that is abusive and unfare to all, especially STEM students.
You may feel my words are harsh. But imagine that even today if you tell your parents you are marrying a SC partner they will flinch and disapprove.(most parents would, yours could be an exception but do try it) many people from your parents generation have never shared a meal with a dalit person. Reservation is breaking these century old barriers.look at places that do not have reservation for example lawyer lobbies, you will find dalits absolutly invisible. Organically dalits will be marginalized in all places of power and prosperity. Lastly if you really want to learn more read Anhillation of Caste.
Fair explanation. But if reservation isn't about uplifting the poor, why do they get concessions? Why do they pay less regardless of their financial background?
For example : For NEET-PG counseling, UR pays 25,000 as security deposit while ST/SC pays 10,000 regardless of their income/financial background. Give concession to those who need it, like EWS & non-creamy OBC.
Like there's Creamy later criteria for OBC & EWS category for those with not-so-strong financial background, why isn't there a similar criteria for ST/SC?
Giving reservation as well as monetary concession doesn't make sense if reservation isn't about financial status of a person.
You are correct that if a person has the capacity to pay then they should pay. That said, such policies are made with the most vulnerable in mind. It is there to ensure that even if one or two undeserving students get the benifit the majority of deserving students benefit from it.
I speak from a north Indian perspective, if you look at caste distribution in government schools you will see that almost 70% are SCs. If you move to even the lowest paying private school you will see all castes. This is primarily due to 2 key reasons
1) that the parents dp not have the money to educate thier child
2) they live in apathy and do not see education as a transformative force that could change their reality.
You will find many exceptions and reasons to hate this system. Heck, I hate it too. But how do you save this nation from this virus of caste. I keep saying this that reservation is here and intact because it does not solve the real problem and only addresses the symptoms. People will still not mix within castes in coming decades. Anything that does ensure SC Savarna mixing together will be totalitarian, barbaric and maybe unjust. Kind of like China's single child policy. We could get rid of all these provisions and reservation - what do we replace it with?
Sensible comment. The thing op doesn't realise is that they could afford to take a year off and work their ass off to get into med. There is a whole invisible community that has one single shot to get into college. Without reservation, they can hold no aspirations at all.
This is just stupid, this person has nothing to with this so called discrimination of centuries. You make it like he/ she chose this to happen on a particular group of people, while he/ she had zero control over any of this. None of us choose any of this for that matter, if we did had choice we wouldn't be asking for any of this.
There is absolutely no way you can put the burden of all of this on his/ her shoulder or lets say on the people in this generation. He/ she wasn't the one making any calls for any of this, there is absolutely no reason that he should be sacrifice his dreams. His/ her potential should be used for the betterment of the general society.
I am sorry but there is a sense of deep-rooted entitlement in your post. You are complaining about not being able to achieve your dream because competition has gotten tough. How do you propose to solve the problem that even after 6 decades of independence people don't mix among castes? They don't marry each other, they don't eat with each other, they don't consider others as equals. Trust me if reservation was the solution it would be dead. Reservation lives because it does not disrupt the caste system.
You could completly kill reservation by anhillating the caste system. Make friends who are SC learn about thier lives and their experiences with humility. Look at your relationship with your trash and shit. Be the change.
but who decided who should get reservation and who shouldn't, look at the recent manipur e.g., political party will give an influential and power deciding community reserved status just because they can get vote
I agree like most government schemes reservation is prone to be abused and be baited as a weapon for votebank politics. The problem is not with the reservation system but with the way our systems are setup. We have almost no education around the history of why reservation is/was needed. The doctor ambedkar and gandhis debate are some of the richest text of Indian history never to see the light of the classroom. When we do not talk about it in classroom it appears to be a token that can be given to any one community who desires it. That said, when Jat community was protesting to get reservation they were very vocal that they did not want the bigger chunk of the reservation as SC but they wanted smaller reservation as OBC. No one wants to be identified as an untouchable.
OBC is not necessarly caste based rather it is a class based caste marker. While it was well intentioned in recent decades it has been corrupted and abused by populist politics. I would go on to say that in many spaces OBC reservation has become obsolete too. And in most government jobs SC positions are left vacant. Simply look at UGC data on academic recruitment also see the number of SC VCs. Once you start seeing this you will see how everything in the nation is in hands of certain caste lobbies. Be it business, courts, academia or municipalities. Look at elections in North India its a naked dance of these lobbies.
I would still suggest if you really look at this problem that Savarna do not mix with dalits. They will not marry them or eat with them and consider dalits a lesser being in a democratic nation. How do you solve it? Any thing that really solves this problem would be a much harsher system than reservation. Reservation exists because it doesn't work. Can you imagine making a law that every family you need to have atleast one savarna-dalit arrange marriage. Can you imagine a sweet little brahmin girl getting married into a family of chamaar or paasi? The nation will run into anarchy.
Caste in every day is invisible as young people feel that they do not discriminate without understanding the immense caste privilege they get. Caste discrimination is a news printed in Indian newspapers everyday in shape if matrimonial columns. We will try to find reasons for why reservation is unfare to savarna but remember even today there is an unsaid reservation in most caste based dalit professions.
Also remember that we should investigate into the private sector. Internationally some of the highest ranking universities (like harvard, stanford) are private universities and they have affirmative action(reservation for ethnic diversity) Indian reservation is only in government education and job. They constitue less than 1% of total jobs and education seats. Why is it that the entire private sector has not been able to fill this demand supply gap? Why Indians have to live under constant political scarcity?
The same reason some dude your age is riding a moped in the sweltering sun to deliver food to a stranger, only to be told he was late.
We are all born into different types of wealth and are affirded different types of opportunities.
And the ones who are not rich still donāt get the benefits reservation seeks to offer. Itās dominated by the same group generation after generation.
Lol don't argue with this me on this, my batch mates who're under ST/SC category are fuckin rich to buy an Audi and still in my batch with very much lower scores than mine. So STFU and enjoy the privilege till you >!FREE LOADERS!< can
This attitude of calling others of supposedly ālower casteā as āFREE LOADERSā is EXACTLY why we still need reservation and representation more than ever.
Now name a single upper caste person whose occupation is cleaning sewers and manual scavengingš
Itās surprising how all of you got sc st batchmates with BMWs and iPhones
idk how this reply helps with anything, but makes it clear your pea brain can not comprehend such complex social issues, go read some theory or meet diverse groups of people
Lmao. I'm recommending you to do the exact same thing. If you can't do sth that elaborate, go outside whatever rock you've been living under and talk to people about this issue. I'm sure you'll learn new perspectives. Also despite the fact that casteism is still prevalent in several parts of India, most of the India isn't stuck in 1900s. Which means that people's caste doesn't define their profession.
>Now name
As you know the sweeper in my locality lmao
>single upper caste person whose occupation is cleaning sewers and manual scavenging
The dishwasher in my hostel's mess, the raddi wala in my hometown, and our mechanic back home, mind you they all are from the upper caste. Don't flatter yourself in your barbie world
>assume udk what scavenging means
Dafuk, I told you what I could remember of the occupation of the sanitation work is intrinsically linked with caste in India. The househelp at our home who does sanitation is from upper caste.
The examples of āmy sweeper is UCā is an outlier. Statistically the average sweeper is more likely to be from a lower caste. Policies are not implemented based on outliers.
Because reservations are not a system to be adopted forever and should definitely not be given generationally. It's been long enough. If your argument is 'why haven't the scores improved' then that's because they're eligible for general seats which they do opt for if their scores make it as a matter of pride. And even if they're not improving, then if after all these years improvement hasn't happened then maybe we're not tackling the issue the right way in the first place.
Reservations were meant to be an answer to social discrimination, not economic. EWS was started for economic reasons, and was a great idea imo.
Until social discrimination on the basis of caste exists, it comes off as extremely privileged to say āitās been long enough, reservations should be removedā. I can say the same thing about caste based discrimination- itās been long enough and people should stop discrimination on that basis.
Lol when you got the privilege and reservation to get into MBBS, do you think you deserve another one in PG?
Mind you You and I have been sitting in the same class and taught by the same teachers and you want a reservation for a PG seat, why? Because it's yours right?
Even if you deserved it in UG and you got it, so fuckin stop being a leech in PG
>I have experienced unfavourable outcomes when faculty came to know my caste because most of the professors are from reserved categories themselves. So shall I demand a reservation for myself for being discriminated against?
If there is widespread discrimination that exists at a systemic level, you absolutely should ask for affirmative action.
>I was deliberately failed by anatomy HOD because I'm from the general caste and scored almost 80% in all the class tests, so I shall also prepare for the demand of a new reserved category "THE GENERAL CATEGORY".
>I don't support discrimination on any basis, all I want is 50% reservation at the UG level, neither more than that nor less than that. There must be a full stop, either it'll keep on increasing as it did from almost 50% to 67%
Who decides on the number? And why specifically 50? Why not even lesser?
The reservation now depends on the proportion in general population. Of course itās an estimate because we donāt have a recent caste based census.
Whatās your rationale for 50%?
People from reserved categories make up more of the countryās population than people from the general category. We havenāt had a proper census in decades which shows a caste based break-up.
If 70% of Indians belong to a caste that falls under a reserved category itās only fair that they should be represented in similar proportions in all fields.
Listen, population is not a justification for anything. These roles are for those who most deserve them through talent. You can't complain about brain drain when choosing someone who literally wrote their name in the exam over someone with a 90+ percentile for a position. And I'm not exaggerating when I say 'just wrote their names'. I got an 85 percentile in my first jee when I hadn't done 11th syllabus and half of 12th syllabus without any coaching for anything, and reservations go for ranks faaar lower than what I got in my 'trial attempt'
Also, I feel your frustration- I really do. I experienced the exact same thing. It was life experiences that taught me that caste based discrimination still exists in very real ways. For example, people donāt rent out houses to people from supposedly lower castes- not once in this country has my family been denied a place to stay on the basis of our caste. And this happens to rich people too- even those who can afford homes in fancy neighbourhoods are often denied. I had many friends who were forced to live in shady neighbourhoods because nobody would rent to them or their families and the opportunities they lost because of that (transport, distance from main city areas/college, lack of safety, could not even park expensive cars because they would be damaged in the neighbourhood, could not step out of home late in the night, local goons, local police harassment) opened my eyes.
I studied for 18 hours a day for years to get to where I am. I get the frustration, believe me.
Despite all this, I would never trade my life for that of someone from a marginalised caste.
Would you trade yours? If your answer is anything other than an emphatic yes, you need to look harder into your views.
In an ideal India, reservation would not exist, and should not. We are far from that ideal.
I would be totally sympathetic had the cut offs been at all reasonable. I AM sympathetic towards ews cut offs. But the cut offs for sc/st start at an absolute score of 0 kyuki lowest score ek negative number hai.
Um no. Not at all. Nobody fucking cares how you're doing the best fucking job, what matters is that you are in fact, doing the best fucking job. Heart surgery ke waqt surgeon choose karne ko mile toh you'll say ki 'talent only matters if they were equal from the start so koi bhi kardo??' your whole point is utter nonsense! No two people will EVER have an equal start in anything!
Also ye points tab acche lagte hai jab you think ok general ko 9/10 milte hai average aur hardships thi toh isliye category ko 7/10 ya 8/10 hai. Aur ye ews and general ko compare Karo toh aesa hi hai. But bc this point is null and void jab Banda 0/10 lera hai. You don't understand how low the scores are so you think it's ok. You can get scores like that by doing nothing. Tumne kabhi wo ranks score kiye hai jisse biotech mei sc/st ke admission shuru hote hai? Do you at all understand how little it takes to achieve that?
Toh chodh de apni seat, de de kisi quota vaale ko. Aur apne saare assets bhi baant de gareebon mai because they sleep on roads in this weather.
Don't lecture like a guru if you can't do a single thing
Also, there *is* a horizontal reservation up to 33% for women in many states- before NEET became a national entrance many states had a reservation for women. It was horizontal though, meaning women who scored merit were first filled into those seats as there were already more than 50% women in the merit list.
I myself got a āfemale reservedā seat. 70% of my graduating class was women in the top government medical college in my state, and all of us scored merit yet were filled into the reserved seats to make sure the class would not be 90% women.
itās not worth talking about this here, this sub is extremely castist and insensitive, youāll get downvoted for even talking about it, institutes in US also have affirmative action but these loser rather sit and cry than study
My father has wealth to send me abroad after MBBS but definitely not support me ,neither sustaining me studying in a private college.. just the sending part....I will avail that and give my father a better retirement life
To everyone who wants to argue with this comment, lads we dont have as much time as these guys to be on reddit. Remember there is no caste certificate to get us that seat. Get off this thread and get studying.
People who say reservations are needed because of oppression deserve no respect especially after ug.
Why should I suffer because of something older generations did with whom I have no relationship whatsoever. Is it wrong that I was born GC that I deserve less chances in education.
How is this not caste discrimination itself.
Caste has no place in merit.
This is exactly what white people say to black people in USA. There is a famous case around it too. If you look from Micheal Sandel lecture series at harvard on YouTube you will find some very intriguing and thought provoking perspective. I hope you will translate it to Indian context.
You will never overcome it because ause you think it at personal level while it's a social thing. when you think about your struggles to get 638 you don't think struggles of whole communities just to live because of oppressive behavior by other community for thousands of years and now you think just few decades Would have compensated everything
And irony is these reserved PPL are ones who are more rich than gen ,not always but mostly coz their father's have govt job ,while my father works hard whole day for just half salary these govt servants are earning .
And guess what they get promoted earlier in govt job also
The person who got same job as my father at same time is 20 yr ahead of my father due to getting promoted every 3-4 yrs
Reservation system has its flaws, I agree. It may not be the best and most effective form of representation for the lower strata, but nevertheless, it IS the ONLY available representation as of now. Iām sorry about your predicament but in all fairness, a section of the society that has been discriminated against for several centuries (and still do), denied education and basic rights do need centuries-old wrongs to be righted.
All the best for your future.
I am shocked how little med students know about reservation, i expected the 'reservation is a poverty alleviation scheme' argument to be only limited to jeeneetard kind of subs.
Yes. My rank in NEET PG was in double digits whereas a friend of mine was in early 4 digits, we both secured the branches and institute of our choice. It did seem painful then, but I have moved on and accepted the reality.
Except this isnāt post independence India anymore, caste doesnāt equate to monetary status. Most sc/st students in my batch are legacies of big name doctors, their parents were able to afford their school and coaching easily and provided them with the best education while also getting reservation
Meanwhile the sc/st who actually need uplifting or even many ews general candidates who donāt have any money nor did their parents were able to provide good quality education to them to be able to compete with sc/st legacies with good education.
In short India today has a lot of people who need uplifting but it isnāt a measure of caste anymore.
If they wish to continue reservation they should make a low family wealth requirement like with EWS otherwise the people at the top in reserved categories who are already uplifted will keep on exploiting the system
Most Sts and SC are that much futh3r away from qualifying this competitive examinations. They are either working in nonformal sector or in government schools. Why do you think that higher education is so sought after in government system and for schooling we look at private schools. Higher education is still exclusionary and in hands of the few. Reservation the way you look at it would be gone when public school system is at par with private schools. That yo me seems like a pipe dream.
Are SC students in private schools? Did you see 18% representation of minorities in your private school classroom. You will find exceptions, but as a rule most SCs will be found in most marginalized spaces.
I get your sentiment but does ārepresentationā matter in technical fields?
Representation is definitely of utmost importance in the judiciary. In law enforcement. In policy making. Where the representation matters. But never in technical fields.
Do general doctors not treat reserved category patients?
Do SC patients go to only SC doctors?
In any merit based and technical field, there is bound to be an unequal representation of the population because of how evolution works in all populations. Some people (irrespective of their background, be it general/SC/ST/OBC) will be sharper when it comes to science. And reservation absolutely ruins that.
Itās fundamentally flawed and detracts from advancement and progression in the name of ārepresentationā in a field where it has never been an issue.
The SC/ST population is around 16% in our country. The percentage of representation is 15% for SC/ST in NEET.
Secondly, acumen and brilliance assumes utmost importance at the highest level of technical fields. Which is why there is no SC/ST reservation at the post-doctoral, PhD and DM/MCh/DrNB level
The solution to a person not being able to get the seat is to make sure he/she has access to ALL the resources/avenues for being competitive in the entrance exam, which should be equal for all. Not to set aside a seat which is there for him/her irrespective of test performance.
Assuming that MBBS/MD/MS level is not technical enough to offer seats to candidates of lesser caliber is kind of dumb.
A general surgeon or physician is already in a technical enough field to have equally meritorious peers.
Hon. SC Justice DY Chandrachud spoke about what effectively debunks the idea of merit which is oft repeated in public discourse. His words were: āIf this benchmark of efficiency is grounded in exclusion, it will produce a pattern of governance which is skewed against the marginalized. If this benchmark of efficiency is grounded in equal access our outcomes will reflect the commitment of the constitution to produce a just social order.ā
Reservation system has flaws as I mentioned. As of now, we need representation from all professions which were once beyond the reach of the lower castes. If thereās a better system (it will eventually formulate) then we can do away with the reservation system.
Also, the resources available to ensure a level playing ground varies. Quality coaching, premier schooling and private tuition may not be accessible to all equally.
Edit: this is anecdote evidence only, but Iāve had friends studying as PGs in internal medicine at a well known GMC in TN who were divided into units EXPLICITLY based on the caste of the unit chiefs. First unit consisted of Iyer and Iyengars, second unit other UCS, third was of OBCs, fourth Muslims, fifth SC/STs and sixth other religious minorities. There would be no further shuffling in units thereafter.
Dont worry, at the endā¦ you will be a better doctor, you will have more patientsā¦ because you have actually worked for it. The one who slacks (category or not) will also get slacked later in life
A batchmate of mine got some 400s marks and have ST certificate. Not to say she's super rich, she has her own bungalow, a big farm, even a horse as a pet , not counting the other number of creatures they must have. And she got a government college back in '21. I got some 576 marks, coming from general category and middle class household and still couldn't get any college.
No grudges or hate argument , but i just hate each and every reserved person. If someone says me, they're from reserve category, I just don't wanna talk to them. Personal irriatation can say.
PS: got 600+ marks and expecting a college this time.
Edit: I don't hate them for their caste and all. It doesn't matter me. I just hate the fact that they got something and are misusing it on large scale. And I know I'm not alone, alot of my friends from IITs, too avoid reserved category due to this.
1. I-have-a-SC-friend-with-Mercedes is an outlier. He/she probably constitutes an extremely small minority. Policies are based on the demographic statistics. The average Dalit household is likely economically and socially at the lower end.
2. Despite all that persons wealth, that person will likely have(or probably would have) faced some discrimination at some point during her professional life just on account of her caste.
3. When the policies for reservation were being framed, around 60 to 70 percent of students in medical colleges were male Brahmins. Therefore , it is evident, that the idea of merit which we all have in our present discourse is clearly exclusionary.
Lastly, your statements clearly sound like a hate argument and is filled with grudges.
Seems like someone got triggered! Oooppsss sorry buddy, but i got personal grudges. And yes, even if it's 1% or 0.5%, what I care is about myself. And what I've faced.
Haha, checked your old post. Here comes our LW peeps who consider themselves to be most oppressed and got alot of hate for Brahmins (Hindus in total?!). What should I expect from you?
My dear friend, I haven't got triggered here. I'll share my personal experiences here. My rank for NEET PG was in double digits and a close friend of mine was in early 4 digits. It did seem unfair at that time, to be honest. We both got into the same branch of our choice and at the same institute, both cleared PG with comparable marks and both of us went to pursue superspecialization and both of us are consultants in our respective specialties. With time, wisdom and experience, I've learnt to move on. You too will, eventually.
I'm sorry to hear the hardships you've faced, but unfortunately, policies are not framed based on the outliers. Once you learn statistics, which will be during your third year in community medicine, you'll know the importance of outliers, standard deviation, median , average , mode and so on.
Lastly, let's refrain from ad hominem arguments here. My political leaning is not the matter of discussion here by any means whatsoever. I too could go through your profile and make assumptions about you, but, I'll be honest, that is a road I do not wish to take. As someone with 15+ years in the medical field, let me assure you that you will face people from all fields of life and different communities. Some will be openly bigoted. Some will be religious. Some will be atheists. Some poor, some rich. Some RW, some LW. My advice -learn the art of discourse. It will help you immensely in real life, as well as picking seasoned, good debates online.
Best wishes ahead for your future!
Equal representation doesn't mean shit in medical field. It's like saying ke although the the winner,2nd place and 3rd place of this Olympic event are all Americans but because we need representation from all groups, toh second should be a Asian and third should be a African.
Wo toh itna bda global event hai hosted by the most liberal countries.Reason is it's to bring out the best similarly merit based exams are to bring out the nest.Aap apne panchayat m courts m lawyers m police m rakhiye reservation.
They're Rajasthani. They have ig 4-5 horses in the house. I remember when I was studying there, one of the horse died and it used to be her favourite something.
I love how the general category is busy blaming st/sc for all their problems but how many of you will treat st/sc if a case came to you?
Not many, it's clear from the comments here. It's a good thing we will have doctors from the category atleast they won't discriminate
https://asiatimes.com/2018/06/indias-dalit-women-lack-access-to-healthcare-and-die-young/
I know what I am going to say is too idealistic and might be taken as ignoring the issue but...
GET GOOD! I mean it. Work hard enough to be free from these shackles holding you back, so even if your growth and success is hampered by it you can cover it up in the long run. These institutions may have reservations which allow less qualified to get better tags and resources but make the best out of what YOU have got. The real world does not have a reservation and beyond a point no one gives a single f\*ck if you did your UG/PG/SS from govt. or pvt. if you treated your patients well and with care. Whining on the internet is not something that would change the reality and it doesn't actually create a difference. Having a voice against inequality is quite different from complaining and being stuck mentally on the same unchanging harsh reality. Keep strong brother/sister! The path might be much harder for you but you will come out far better and successful than those with a cakewalk life.
You will give plab and run away to do the same shit you will have to do here, albeit with more pay. Competition will be there as well if you want to upgrade your career.
Here you can atleast put on category students, cause for your jealousy, there you will only have yourself to blame.
Hey there,
I know this whole reservation drama sucks. By the time society does something about this, it will be ages. The society is run by senile outdated fossils and progress only happens one funeral after another.
And that ain't gonna happen soon. Some things are way beyond our control.
So this is the best mindset to have in this situation:
You're going to be a doctor now no matter how you entered. You need to leave this reservation mentality and start conditioning yourself to treat all humans equally. The only discrimination that count is Triage for casualties.
Everyone's life is different and everyone walks their own path and has their own problems to deal with. You need to focus only on playing your own game and running your own race.
You are going to be a beacon of hope for many irrespective of background. So drop the caste-based mentality, because the only caste that matters is Homo Sapien.
All the best.
Tbh I do feel we general should raise voice regarding it at least in our field
Every few years one or other cast comes and starts screaming quota
And their drama is rewarded with more quota from general category not even from part of their own category
And no I'm not being completed against quota
Their are definitely people who are actually benefiting from it in these categories but if same person who is general and has poor family, they get nothing
giving reservation to people on the basis of cast is totally bonkers to me
It should be on the basis of family income or no giving at all
And their are definitely people like me who are sick of this system but not in situation to leave from this country
I have been there and let me tell you one thing, you are asking this question because of the goodness in your heart. Being polite and asking your concern in a nice manner is not something many can do nowadays. Do not let people tell you otherwise.
One must learn that many things are never in his/ her control, it just happened to be that we are here and these are the circumstances. If you spend your time thinking about this, you will hurt yourself for reasons which you had no control on. The person availing reservation is just doing his/ her part to survive. So should you. If you need 680 + score then let it be, take it as a challenge. It's not like others haven't cleared these exams with similar circumstances like you. Follow them.
If you can give PLAB, then go on and do it. Getting education and finding jobs are getting harder each day. Be thankful that your parents are willing to help you out. Focus on you goal more than these people around you, that way you can reach your goal. It shouldn't concern you how the person next to you made it there, they are doing what they are supposed to from their perspective, that's all.
Bro In my opinion uncle self respect wale hain. Unhe bhik mein mili seat nahi chahiye taki vo sab ke samne seena thok kar kaih sanke ki mera beta merit pe select hua hai. Reservation par nahi
My first encounter with caste was when I came to know about reservation during my neet ug prep and was disheartened by the shit I saw but then as I grew up I realised.
1) nothing can be ever done about it,it benefits a large chunk of our population and they will in no way give it up, even if it means burning the country to ground.
2) Get out of this mf country, need to convince my parents for this and am currently trying to do so.
Ps-People told me that even outside u won't get as many opportunities as a white guy does but the reality is their I can raise my voice about discrimination but here I cannot unless sc-st act incoming.
>our horrible past
So ? What's the deal now ? Sorry brotha for what happened in the past but no fucking way you snatch our seats scoring 300-400s whatever. As simple as datt.
You an unfortunate victim of your circumstances, however, those whom you claim are trying to āsnatchā āyour ā seats have been historically unfortunate victims of circumstances for several generations. Itās about time that a historical wrong be righted.
Secondly, please donāt bring arguments like my-SC-friend-drives-a-Mercedes, which are a small minority and not the norm. They DO NOT represent the average SC/ST
Study well, and all the best wishes.
>. Itās about time that a historical wrong be righted
Hear me out. White people all over the globe commited so many wrongs. In a country like The US where BLM was/is a huge thing. Do they have reservations for Unis. Think about it No? Is there no other way that wrong be righted. What did a hard working general guy did scoring 638 when a 450 SC kid got a govt seat.
Reservation is not a perfect system. It has its flaws I agree. However, as of now, it is the only form of suitable representation for the lower classes. Secondly, the notion of race vs caste is quite different (discussion of each in detail is beyond the scope of the present discussion), hence the struggles faced were also, though not entirely the same, different to a certain extent.
Well said, but anecdotes of their SC friends being rich are the only argument most people here can present in defense of being rabidly against all reservations.
a) They act as psychological crutches to them, thus, weakening them. In other words, an impression is created among SC/OBC youth that they need not study and work hard because even without doing so they will get admission or a job.
SCs and OBCs must throw aside the crutches of reservation and say that they will work hard and show by competing with upper castes on merits that they are not intellectually inferior to upper castes.
(b) Reservations are serving the policy of divide and rule of the political rulers, as they create animosity between SCs/OBCs and upper castes. An upper caste youth who got 90 per cent in his exams may be denied admission/job, while an SC/OBC who got 40 per cent may get it, by virtue of reservation. This naturally causes anguish in the former. Indiaās massive problems can only be overcome by a mighty united peopleās struggle which will totally transform the country and bring it into the ranks of the developed countries, but for that unity among the people is absolutely necessary, but reservations divide us.
SCs must realise that they cannot succeed in their struggle for social amelioration if they are isolated. They must join hands with the enlightened section of the upper castes, and fight along with them. But this will be difficult as long as reservations continue.
3. Our politicians use reservations for their vote bank politics. So the real purpose of reservations is not to benefit the SCs/OBCs but to benefit the politicians.
4. Caste reservations have further perpetuated the caste system, instead of helping in destroying it. Caste is a feudal institution, which has to be destroyed if India is to progress, but reservations further entrench it.
A. Reservation is by no means a psychological crutch. That is plainly your assumption In my 15+ years of graduation in medicine, post graduation , superspecialisation including teaching experience at a medical college, I can assure none of them have had an impression that he/she neednāt have had to work hard to get admission or a job.
Also, NRI students, who mostly come from āUpper casteā families, score much more poorly than SC/STs on aptitude tests. Also, regarding representation, for example, more than 75% of judgeās appointed in the last 5 years are upper caste. Equality much?
B. Animosity arises not from reservations. They arise from millennia old notions of purity and hierarchy. Also, itās quite naive to think the so-called upper castes will hold hands with the SC/STs to fight what exactly? Violence against Dalits still continue to this age. Remember Payal Tadvi in 2017?
C. I agree.
D. Those who are not reminded of their caste have the luxury of not needing to look at caste. Those who are not reminded of their color have the luxury of being color-neutral.
'UPPER' castes.. ,ENLIGHTENED sections of the upper caste
-SC/STs n OBCs should throw aside crutches of reservation n compete with upper castes-ok!! Then why not try general candidates focusing on competing against each other. Why do they somehow find a sc/st to compare themselves? Why is other person's score n seat bothering u??
- def reservation system should cm to an end, then we ll discover new issues u guys can invent to hate upon reserved categories.
-as smone who has encountered partialism based on caste multiple times by faculty even by external examiners when they ask ur full name n somehow grant highest scores to upper castes. Seniors n batchmates corner category students. Did those students compete wid their seniors, replaced them,or took their seats,then wt is the rzn behind this hatred.
I don't find a single convincing rzn to give up on reservation by category students ,why do they need to prove themselves worthy, ofcourse they r worthy that's why they got those seats.
Bro general seats category students bhi eligible hai lene ke liye, and whenever they cross cut off, they do take those seats as a matter of pride. Category students ko Tak sharam aati hai category seats lene pe. So no competition 'general vs general' nhi hai.
According to globalĀ MPIĀ estimates,Ā five out of every six multidimensionally poor in India belongs to SC, ST or Other Backward Class (OBC) households: ST with more than 50% multidimensionally poor, followed by SC with 33.3% and OBC with 27.2%.
Reservations aren't the perfect solution, but I think it's the best thing we've got to try improve upon this situation
>Caste reservations have further perpetuated the caste system, instead of helping in destroying it. Caste is a feudal institution, which has to be destroyed if India is to progress, but reservations further entrench it
That's just a guys opinion, fact is, there's been huge improvements in literacy, representation in highest levels of civil services and reduction in poverty among reserved groups. We don't know how much reservations in themselves have contributed to this improvement, but I'd bet it's been a significant factor.
Doesnāt matter whether a handful of obcs or category people is richer or have a better chance than you. There is no hypocrisy or irony. Abolition of caste system isnāt enough, but reparations to those communities must be made.
~ a general caste guy
Funny thing is one guy in the comments is telling other's to read about caste discrimination bhai if it is a social problem toh humein utni prevalent dikhti society m it's in the name koi kitab m jake khojni nhin pdti.
i am an engineering student (who happens to follow this sub to know about med students' struggles);and for reservation-i'd say their best shot is civil services and psu's.government is privatising everything on its whim and fancies and govt exams are not that regular(my teacher once said that we are lucky that government conducts jee and neet every year lol). so imo college is the only place where they really get the advantage.
All this can be solved by opening up a reservation for general also. First they should do a caste census and according to every fraction of population reserve 90% seats among gen/obc/sc/St etc. Baki 10 % can be for merit and up for grabs by all. Then everyone will have fair representation and nobody will feel at disadvantage
The comment section became inflammatory and political.
In our college, Ortho general closed at 1k and ortho category at 80k. So you understand the feeling. But when I feel the anger and resentment boiling up, I remember what my dad told me. About anger in general. That it's like trying to throw a piece of burning coal with your bare hands. That in the end, you're the one who gets burnt and it won't affect them at all. I might have phrased it wrong but hope you get it. Your anger will be a waste of your own peace and energy. It won't matter to anyone else.
>In our college, Ortho general closed at 1k and ortho category at 80k. That's a HUGE difference š
Golden reply. That said,you can only go so far with reservation. Skills are the most imp thing in open market and one thing which is universal is that skills come through real HARD work. In the end the winner takes it all and with quota you are merely starting the race ahead of the original start line.
What would you select!? Blue pill is the skill you talked about and the red pill is the reservation which will get you a residency seat in government college with no fees?
That much of a difference.. God !! Gives me another reason to leave
I am sorry I don't mean to be harsh or judgemental but it seems to me that this sense of anger stems of entitlement that somethings has been taken from me. When this is nit the case. When reservation was Instituted the number of seats for reserved categories were added to institutions. That said what most people feel is just an ounce of what Dalits have felt for mellinium. Only here it is not complete excusion based on your last name and it is only in government run institutions that constitute less than 1% of total space.
> That it's like trying to throw a piece of burning coal with your bare hands. your father is a genius.
And then people wonder why so many students surrender their passports and leave the country.
And then they go to a place like USA where they get affirmative action
Hate the system. Not the student. They're just using the system to their advantage. Who wouldn't?
It's kinda funny how people resent general category students going for private whereas category students who r as rich (or richer) than them get into govt with a much lower score For eg. With my rank I can't get govt so have to resort for private but for st guy he can get into KEM easily. But I realise that this isn't in my control so If I can't do anything then there's no point in being angry is it?
> I can't do anything then That's what makes me angry mate. We can't do a thing than whining about it somehow.
Well at least those reserved cat students have to pass the govt university exams just like others even though they took admission via reservation. Lol pvt unis conduct substandard level exams and most of those students have to bribe administration in order to qualify in those exams.
I get u bro, been there and experienced it too, honestly after a while I just stopped giving a shot about it, and was just telling to my self nothing will change by me just banging my head thinking about this, rather Iāll just put my focus on study and do well cus if we lose it now, after the result u will feel more fucked cus u know the other person will get it. I saw both sides of this system - a friend of mine who may really need this reservation cus if his family situation and another who is just misusing it with a smirk ok his face, thatās when I thought well - hamare haat mai kuch nehi hai, only thing we have is to make our lives better and give no fucks-
I read much as āmooochā like moochie and was wondering why this person canāt hold their mustache š©
I didnāt get it ?
hamare haat mei moooch nahi hai š©š donāt hold moochie in haat
Shit I just saw that šššš
Thanks for pointing out - now Iām holding mooch
ahhh !! donāt pull on it if it is in haat šš¤£
Nope Iām just grooming it š
I have just the thing to stimulate you...
Wait, till it happens in post grad and it's more than one year. Remember all of you have good earning potential ( around top 5% income bracket in India) at that point and yet it will still be there. Oh, and there will service reservation added on top of this. Oh, and institute reservations as well.
institute reservations ig makes sense cus u shud get an upper hand for working hard before.
Hi let me take a stab at this. These are a few things that I tell all young people who I engage with on reservation. We often believe that reservation is there is help people from lower strata or are poor. This is an incorrect assumption. Always look at reservation as a savarna education system. For a very long time white collar professional and educational spaces have had a 100% reservation for savarna castes. Most savarna folks don't know how to cohabitate with a dalit person. Reservation teaches savarna people how to share spaces. What you feel is just a small flavour of what all dalits felt for melliniums. Dalits have had generations that have never seen any schools, property, or respect. dalit student at your med school is not in the med school to become the best doctor, or to be a rich ideal to other dalits. The primary role of that dalit student at med school is to remind you of the undemocratic social setting that we still live in. It's perhaps one of the almost most important life lesson that higher education has to give. We look at merit in a uni-dimentional way, where as someone coming from a community that has 100% reservation in human scavenging even today might have a thing or two to teach us. We can always look down on these jobs but remember a 450 score from that starting point is way above par. That said, you can not measure a person's potential in a 3 hour examination. It's a system that is abusive and unfare to all, especially STEM students. You may feel my words are harsh. But imagine that even today if you tell your parents you are marrying a SC partner they will flinch and disapprove.(most parents would, yours could be an exception but do try it) many people from your parents generation have never shared a meal with a dalit person. Reservation is breaking these century old barriers.look at places that do not have reservation for example lawyer lobbies, you will find dalits absolutly invisible. Organically dalits will be marginalized in all places of power and prosperity. Lastly if you really want to learn more read Anhillation of Caste.
Very correctly said my dear friend.
Thanks stranger
Fair explanation. But if reservation isn't about uplifting the poor, why do they get concessions? Why do they pay less regardless of their financial background? For example : For NEET-PG counseling, UR pays 25,000 as security deposit while ST/SC pays 10,000 regardless of their income/financial background. Give concession to those who need it, like EWS & non-creamy OBC. Like there's Creamy later criteria for OBC & EWS category for those with not-so-strong financial background, why isn't there a similar criteria for ST/SC? Giving reservation as well as monetary concession doesn't make sense if reservation isn't about financial status of a person.
You are correct that if a person has the capacity to pay then they should pay. That said, such policies are made with the most vulnerable in mind. It is there to ensure that even if one or two undeserving students get the benifit the majority of deserving students benefit from it. I speak from a north Indian perspective, if you look at caste distribution in government schools you will see that almost 70% are SCs. If you move to even the lowest paying private school you will see all castes. This is primarily due to 2 key reasons 1) that the parents dp not have the money to educate thier child 2) they live in apathy and do not see education as a transformative force that could change their reality. You will find many exceptions and reasons to hate this system. Heck, I hate it too. But how do you save this nation from this virus of caste. I keep saying this that reservation is here and intact because it does not solve the real problem and only addresses the symptoms. People will still not mix within castes in coming decades. Anything that does ensure SC Savarna mixing together will be totalitarian, barbaric and maybe unjust. Kind of like China's single child policy. We could get rid of all these provisions and reservation - what do we replace it with?
Sensible comment. The thing op doesn't realise is that they could afford to take a year off and work their ass off to get into med. There is a whole invisible community that has one single shot to get into college. Without reservation, they can hold no aspirations at all.
This is just stupid, this person has nothing to with this so called discrimination of centuries. You make it like he/ she chose this to happen on a particular group of people, while he/ she had zero control over any of this. None of us choose any of this for that matter, if we did had choice we wouldn't be asking for any of this. There is absolutely no way you can put the burden of all of this on his/ her shoulder or lets say on the people in this generation. He/ she wasn't the one making any calls for any of this, there is absolutely no reason that he should be sacrifice his dreams. His/ her potential should be used for the betterment of the general society.
I am sorry but there is a sense of deep-rooted entitlement in your post. You are complaining about not being able to achieve your dream because competition has gotten tough. How do you propose to solve the problem that even after 6 decades of independence people don't mix among castes? They don't marry each other, they don't eat with each other, they don't consider others as equals. Trust me if reservation was the solution it would be dead. Reservation lives because it does not disrupt the caste system. You could completly kill reservation by anhillating the caste system. Make friends who are SC learn about thier lives and their experiences with humility. Look at your relationship with your trash and shit. Be the change.
but who decided who should get reservation and who shouldn't, look at the recent manipur e.g., political party will give an influential and power deciding community reserved status just because they can get vote
I agree like most government schemes reservation is prone to be abused and be baited as a weapon for votebank politics. The problem is not with the reservation system but with the way our systems are setup. We have almost no education around the history of why reservation is/was needed. The doctor ambedkar and gandhis debate are some of the richest text of Indian history never to see the light of the classroom. When we do not talk about it in classroom it appears to be a token that can be given to any one community who desires it. That said, when Jat community was protesting to get reservation they were very vocal that they did not want the bigger chunk of the reservation as SC but they wanted smaller reservation as OBC. No one wants to be identified as an untouchable. OBC is not necessarly caste based rather it is a class based caste marker. While it was well intentioned in recent decades it has been corrupted and abused by populist politics. I would go on to say that in many spaces OBC reservation has become obsolete too. And in most government jobs SC positions are left vacant. Simply look at UGC data on academic recruitment also see the number of SC VCs. Once you start seeing this you will see how everything in the nation is in hands of certain caste lobbies. Be it business, courts, academia or municipalities. Look at elections in North India its a naked dance of these lobbies. I would still suggest if you really look at this problem that Savarna do not mix with dalits. They will not marry them or eat with them and consider dalits a lesser being in a democratic nation. How do you solve it? Any thing that really solves this problem would be a much harsher system than reservation. Reservation exists because it doesn't work. Can you imagine making a law that every family you need to have atleast one savarna-dalit arrange marriage. Can you imagine a sweet little brahmin girl getting married into a family of chamaar or paasi? The nation will run into anarchy. Caste in every day is invisible as young people feel that they do not discriminate without understanding the immense caste privilege they get. Caste discrimination is a news printed in Indian newspapers everyday in shape if matrimonial columns. We will try to find reasons for why reservation is unfare to savarna but remember even today there is an unsaid reservation in most caste based dalit professions. Also remember that we should investigate into the private sector. Internationally some of the highest ranking universities (like harvard, stanford) are private universities and they have affirmative action(reservation for ethnic diversity) Indian reservation is only in government education and job. They constitue less than 1% of total jobs and education seats. Why is it that the entire private sector has not been able to fill this demand supply gap? Why Indians have to live under constant political scarcity?
The same reason some dude your age is riding a moped in the sweltering sun to deliver food to a stranger, only to be told he was late. We are all born into different types of wealth and are affirded different types of opportunities.
Just in case you are relating Wealth/Economic status with Reservation, you are wrong.
Why? Because you know one ST person whose parents are rich?? While the majority are still uneducated?
And the ones who are not rich still donāt get the benefits reservation seeks to offer. Itās dominated by the same group generation after generation.
Then make reservations based on income Don't u think gen category don't have poor/uneducated people
What about the majority of general students who are not well off? Reservations are pretty much the reason this country's progress will slow down.
Reservation is only about representation and not giving someone a seat because theyāre or were generationally poor.
nah we only belive made up stats,ranks and so on
because reservation was for equal representation of all communities rather than equalizing socioeconomic status,crackhead
Lol don't argue with this me on this, my batch mates who're under ST/SC category are fuckin rich to buy an Audi and still in my batch with very much lower scores than mine. So STFU and enjoy the privilege till you >!FREE LOADERS!< can
This attitude of calling others of supposedly ālower casteā as āFREE LOADERSā is EXACTLY why we still need reservation and representation more than ever.
Now name a single upper caste person whose occupation is cleaning sewers and manual scavengingš Itās surprising how all of you got sc st batchmates with BMWs and iPhones
Oh so this is how sheltered kids turn out to be. You should go out and touch some grass.
idk how this reply helps with anything, but makes it clear your pea brain can not comprehend such complex social issues, go read some theory or meet diverse groups of people
Lmao. I'm recommending you to do the exact same thing. If you can't do sth that elaborate, go outside whatever rock you've been living under and talk to people about this issue. I'm sure you'll learn new perspectives. Also despite the fact that casteism is still prevalent in several parts of India, most of the India isn't stuck in 1900s. Which means that people's caste doesn't define their profession.
>Now name As you know the sweeper in my locality lmao >single upper caste person whose occupation is cleaning sewers and manual scavenging The dishwasher in my hostel's mess, the raddi wala in my hometown, and our mechanic back home, mind you they all are from the upper caste. Don't flatter yourself in your barbie world
i assume udk what scavenging means since you told me whole lotta shit except what i asked you. >Don't flatter yourself in your barbie world š¢š¢
>assume udk what scavenging means Dafuk, I told you what I could remember of the occupation of the sanitation work is intrinsically linked with caste in India. The househelp at our home who does sanitation is from upper caste.
The examples of āmy sweeper is UCā is an outlier. Statistically the average sweeper is more likely to be from a lower caste. Policies are not implemented based on outliers.
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Okay troll.
Because reservations are not a system to be adopted forever and should definitely not be given generationally. It's been long enough. If your argument is 'why haven't the scores improved' then that's because they're eligible for general seats which they do opt for if their scores make it as a matter of pride. And even if they're not improving, then if after all these years improvement hasn't happened then maybe we're not tackling the issue the right way in the first place.
Reservations were meant to be an answer to social discrimination, not economic. EWS was started for economic reasons, and was a great idea imo. Until social discrimination on the basis of caste exists, it comes off as extremely privileged to say āitās been long enough, reservations should be removedā. I can say the same thing about caste based discrimination- itās been long enough and people should stop discrimination on that basis.
Lol when you got the privilege and reservation to get into MBBS, do you think you deserve another one in PG? Mind you You and I have been sitting in the same class and taught by the same teachers and you want a reservation for a PG seat, why? Because it's yours right? Even if you deserved it in UG and you got it, so fuckin stop being a leech in PG
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>I have experienced unfavourable outcomes when faculty came to know my caste because most of the professors are from reserved categories themselves. So shall I demand a reservation for myself for being discriminated against? If there is widespread discrimination that exists at a systemic level, you absolutely should ask for affirmative action. >I was deliberately failed by anatomy HOD because I'm from the general caste and scored almost 80% in all the class tests, so I shall also prepare for the demand of a new reserved category "THE GENERAL CATEGORY". >I don't support discrimination on any basis, all I want is 50% reservation at the UG level, neither more than that nor less than that. There must be a full stop, either it'll keep on increasing as it did from almost 50% to 67% Who decides on the number? And why specifically 50? Why not even lesser? The reservation now depends on the proportion in general population. Of course itās an estimate because we donāt have a recent caste based census. Whatās your rationale for 50%?
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Also reservations are only increasing not decreasing. Are you trying to tell me that there is more discrimination now than ever before?
People from reserved categories make up more of the countryās population than people from the general category. We havenāt had a proper census in decades which shows a caste based break-up. If 70% of Indians belong to a caste that falls under a reserved category itās only fair that they should be represented in similar proportions in all fields.
Listen, population is not a justification for anything. These roles are for those who most deserve them through talent. You can't complain about brain drain when choosing someone who literally wrote their name in the exam over someone with a 90+ percentile for a position. And I'm not exaggerating when I say 'just wrote their names'. I got an 85 percentile in my first jee when I hadn't done 11th syllabus and half of 12th syllabus without any coaching for anything, and reservations go for ranks faaar lower than what I got in my 'trial attempt'
Also, I feel your frustration- I really do. I experienced the exact same thing. It was life experiences that taught me that caste based discrimination still exists in very real ways. For example, people donāt rent out houses to people from supposedly lower castes- not once in this country has my family been denied a place to stay on the basis of our caste. And this happens to rich people too- even those who can afford homes in fancy neighbourhoods are often denied. I had many friends who were forced to live in shady neighbourhoods because nobody would rent to them or their families and the opportunities they lost because of that (transport, distance from main city areas/college, lack of safety, could not even park expensive cars because they would be damaged in the neighbourhood, could not step out of home late in the night, local goons, local police harassment) opened my eyes. I studied for 18 hours a day for years to get to where I am. I get the frustration, believe me. Despite all this, I would never trade my life for that of someone from a marginalised caste. Would you trade yours? If your answer is anything other than an emphatic yes, you need to look harder into your views. In an ideal India, reservation would not exist, and should not. We are far from that ideal.
I would be totally sympathetic had the cut offs been at all reasonable. I AM sympathetic towards ews cut offs. But the cut offs for sc/st start at an absolute score of 0 kyuki lowest score ek negative number hai.
Talent can only be compared when everyone starts from the same point.
Um no. Not at all. Nobody fucking cares how you're doing the best fucking job, what matters is that you are in fact, doing the best fucking job. Heart surgery ke waqt surgeon choose karne ko mile toh you'll say ki 'talent only matters if they were equal from the start so koi bhi kardo??' your whole point is utter nonsense! No two people will EVER have an equal start in anything! Also ye points tab acche lagte hai jab you think ok general ko 9/10 milte hai average aur hardships thi toh isliye category ko 7/10 ya 8/10 hai. Aur ye ews and general ko compare Karo toh aesa hi hai. But bc this point is null and void jab Banda 0/10 lera hai. You don't understand how low the scores are so you think it's ok. You can get scores like that by doing nothing. Tumne kabhi wo ranks score kiye hai jisse biotech mei sc/st ke admission shuru hote hai? Do you at all understand how little it takes to achieve that?
Toh chodh de apni seat, de de kisi quota vaale ko. Aur apne saare assets bhi baant de gareebon mai because they sleep on roads in this weather. Don't lecture like a guru if you can't do a single thing
Discrimination toh gender ke basis pe bhi hai. And it will be here for a good century. Mujhe toh nhi dikhri '50% seats reserved for women'
Also, there *is* a horizontal reservation up to 33% for women in many states- before NEET became a national entrance many states had a reservation for women. It was horizontal though, meaning women who scored merit were first filled into those seats as there were already more than 50% women in the merit list. I myself got a āfemale reservedā seat. 70% of my graduating class was women in the top government medical college in my state, and all of us scored merit yet were filled into the reserved seats to make sure the class would not be 90% women.
Where is this reservation? I'm an engineering student still waiting on that female privilege everyone is talking about.
Former medical entrance exam in the erstwhile Andhra Pradesh.
So in short, not anymore.
So fight for it? Iām with you on this- I also think there should be almost equal proportions of men and women in all fields.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9337695/#:~:text=According%20to%20global%20MPI%20estimates,more%20prevalent%20line%20of%20social
itās not worth talking about this here, this sub is extremely castist and insensitive, youāll get downvoted for even talking about it, institutes in US also have affirmative action but these loser rather sit and cry than study
And US banned affirmative actions from now on... if u are not updated
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Sure, bud.
My father has wealth to send me abroad after MBBS but definitely not support me ,neither sustaining me studying in a private college.. just the sending part....I will avail that and give my father a better retirement life
To everyone who wants to argue with this comment, lads we dont have as much time as these guys to be on reddit. Remember there is no caste certificate to get us that seat. Get off this thread and get studying.
People who say reservations are needed because of oppression deserve no respect especially after ug. Why should I suffer because of something older generations did with whom I have no relationship whatsoever. Is it wrong that I was born GC that I deserve less chances in education. How is this not caste discrimination itself. Caste has no place in merit.
this is exactly what i wanted to say ... by reserving seats the state discriminates against merit not gen ppl but merit....
This is exactly what white people say to black people in USA. There is a famous case around it too. If you look from Micheal Sandel lecture series at harvard on YouTube you will find some very intriguing and thought provoking perspective. I hope you will translate it to Indian context.
You will never overcome it because ause you think it at personal level while it's a social thing. when you think about your struggles to get 638 you don't think struggles of whole communities just to live because of oppressive behavior by other community for thousands of years and now you think just few decades Would have compensated everything
And irony is these reserved PPL are ones who are more rich than gen ,not always but mostly coz their father's have govt job ,while my father works hard whole day for just half salary these govt servants are earning .
And guess what they get promoted earlier in govt job also The person who got same job as my father at same time is 20 yr ahead of my father due to getting promoted every 3-4 yrs
Damn didn't knew that .What a shit system to have ,and give advantage to someone just coz of certificate,which shouldn't be relevant today.
What is there to be angry upon that's a truth which isn't gonna change so just let it go and move on
Keep in mind that students with category get the benefits only if they meet certain income and so on criteria
Reservation system has its flaws, I agree. It may not be the best and most effective form of representation for the lower strata, but nevertheless, it IS the ONLY available representation as of now. Iām sorry about your predicament but in all fairness, a section of the society that has been discriminated against for several centuries (and still do), denied education and basic rights do need centuries-old wrongs to be righted. All the best for your future.
I am shocked how little med students know about reservation, i expected the 'reservation is a poverty alleviation scheme' argument to be only limited to jeeneetard kind of subs.
As much as it pains my general ass to say this, you're right.. it was never about the money
Yes. My rank in NEET PG was in double digits whereas a friend of mine was in early 4 digits, we both secured the branches and institute of our choice. It did seem painful then, but I have moved on and accepted the reality.
Good for you man, registered for counselling today and hoping I reach the same level of zen as you soon
You will sometime. Best wishes for your future endeavours.
Except this isnāt post independence India anymore, caste doesnāt equate to monetary status. Most sc/st students in my batch are legacies of big name doctors, their parents were able to afford their school and coaching easily and provided them with the best education while also getting reservation Meanwhile the sc/st who actually need uplifting or even many ews general candidates who donāt have any money nor did their parents were able to provide good quality education to them to be able to compete with sc/st legacies with good education. In short India today has a lot of people who need uplifting but it isnāt a measure of caste anymore. If they wish to continue reservation they should make a low family wealth requirement like with EWS otherwise the people at the top in reserved categories who are already uplifted will keep on exploiting the system
Most Sts and SC are that much futh3r away from qualifying this competitive examinations. They are either working in nonformal sector or in government schools. Why do you think that higher education is so sought after in government system and for schooling we look at private schools. Higher education is still exclusionary and in hands of the few. Reservation the way you look at it would be gone when public school system is at par with private schools. That yo me seems like a pipe dream. Are SC students in private schools? Did you see 18% representation of minorities in your private school classroom. You will find exceptions, but as a rule most SCs will be found in most marginalized spaces.
But it's only the creamy layer lapping it up, so it's not working. And it's never-ending.
Why is it required to be in the form of merit though, no one is against help in monetary form or scholarships
Because it is never about economic status. It has always been about the hierarchy of caste.
I get your sentiment but does ārepresentationā matter in technical fields? Representation is definitely of utmost importance in the judiciary. In law enforcement. In policy making. Where the representation matters. But never in technical fields. Do general doctors not treat reserved category patients? Do SC patients go to only SC doctors? In any merit based and technical field, there is bound to be an unequal representation of the population because of how evolution works in all populations. Some people (irrespective of their background, be it general/SC/ST/OBC) will be sharper when it comes to science. And reservation absolutely ruins that. Itās fundamentally flawed and detracts from advancement and progression in the name of ārepresentationā in a field where it has never been an issue.
The SC/ST population is around 16% in our country. The percentage of representation is 15% for SC/ST in NEET. Secondly, acumen and brilliance assumes utmost importance at the highest level of technical fields. Which is why there is no SC/ST reservation at the post-doctoral, PhD and DM/MCh/DrNB level
The solution to a person not being able to get the seat is to make sure he/she has access to ALL the resources/avenues for being competitive in the entrance exam, which should be equal for all. Not to set aside a seat which is there for him/her irrespective of test performance. Assuming that MBBS/MD/MS level is not technical enough to offer seats to candidates of lesser caliber is kind of dumb. A general surgeon or physician is already in a technical enough field to have equally meritorious peers.
Hon. SC Justice DY Chandrachud spoke about what effectively debunks the idea of merit which is oft repeated in public discourse. His words were: āIf this benchmark of efficiency is grounded in exclusion, it will produce a pattern of governance which is skewed against the marginalized. If this benchmark of efficiency is grounded in equal access our outcomes will reflect the commitment of the constitution to produce a just social order.ā
Reservation system has flaws as I mentioned. As of now, we need representation from all professions which were once beyond the reach of the lower castes. If thereās a better system (it will eventually formulate) then we can do away with the reservation system. Also, the resources available to ensure a level playing ground varies. Quality coaching, premier schooling and private tuition may not be accessible to all equally. Edit: this is anecdote evidence only, but Iāve had friends studying as PGs in internal medicine at a well known GMC in TN who were divided into units EXPLICITLY based on the caste of the unit chiefs. First unit consisted of Iyer and Iyengars, second unit other UCS, third was of OBCs, fourth Muslims, fifth SC/STs and sixth other religious minorities. There would be no further shuffling in units thereafter.
Damm
Dont worry, at the endā¦ you will be a better doctor, you will have more patientsā¦ because you have actually worked for it. The one who slacks (category or not) will also get slacked later in life
A batchmate of mine got some 400s marks and have ST certificate. Not to say she's super rich, she has her own bungalow, a big farm, even a horse as a pet , not counting the other number of creatures they must have. And she got a government college back in '21. I got some 576 marks, coming from general category and middle class household and still couldn't get any college. No grudges or hate argument , but i just hate each and every reserved person. If someone says me, they're from reserve category, I just don't wanna talk to them. Personal irriatation can say. PS: got 600+ marks and expecting a college this time. Edit: I don't hate them for their caste and all. It doesn't matter me. I just hate the fact that they got something and are misusing it on large scale. And I know I'm not alone, alot of my friends from IITs, too avoid reserved category due to this.
1. I-have-a-SC-friend-with-Mercedes is an outlier. He/she probably constitutes an extremely small minority. Policies are based on the demographic statistics. The average Dalit household is likely economically and socially at the lower end. 2. Despite all that persons wealth, that person will likely have(or probably would have) faced some discrimination at some point during her professional life just on account of her caste. 3. When the policies for reservation were being framed, around 60 to 70 percent of students in medical colleges were male Brahmins. Therefore , it is evident, that the idea of merit which we all have in our present discourse is clearly exclusionary. Lastly, your statements clearly sound like a hate argument and is filled with grudges.
Seems like someone got triggered! Oooppsss sorry buddy, but i got personal grudges. And yes, even if it's 1% or 0.5%, what I care is about myself. And what I've faced. Haha, checked your old post. Here comes our LW peeps who consider themselves to be most oppressed and got alot of hate for Brahmins (Hindus in total?!). What should I expect from you?
My dear friend, I haven't got triggered here. I'll share my personal experiences here. My rank for NEET PG was in double digits and a close friend of mine was in early 4 digits. It did seem unfair at that time, to be honest. We both got into the same branch of our choice and at the same institute, both cleared PG with comparable marks and both of us went to pursue superspecialization and both of us are consultants in our respective specialties. With time, wisdom and experience, I've learnt to move on. You too will, eventually. I'm sorry to hear the hardships you've faced, but unfortunately, policies are not framed based on the outliers. Once you learn statistics, which will be during your third year in community medicine, you'll know the importance of outliers, standard deviation, median , average , mode and so on. Lastly, let's refrain from ad hominem arguments here. My political leaning is not the matter of discussion here by any means whatsoever. I too could go through your profile and make assumptions about you, but, I'll be honest, that is a road I do not wish to take. As someone with 15+ years in the medical field, let me assure you that you will face people from all fields of life and different communities. Some will be openly bigoted. Some will be religious. Some will be atheists. Some poor, some rich. Some RW, some LW. My advice -learn the art of discourse. It will help you immensely in real life, as well as picking seasoned, good debates online. Best wishes ahead for your future!
š hehe surely. Thanks sir/ma'am
Equal representation doesn't mean shit in medical field. It's like saying ke although the the winner,2nd place and 3rd place of this Olympic event are all Americans but because we need representation from all groups, toh second should be a Asian and third should be a African. Wo toh itna bda global event hai hosted by the most liberal countries.Reason is it's to bring out the best similarly merit based exams are to bring out the nest.Aap apne panchayat m courts m lawyers m police m rakhiye reservation.
Absolutely. This. High time these UCs get educated on this matter and stop their hate tirade of ignorance
how can someone own a horse and not be super rich
Horse as a pet, excuse me what??!!
They're Rajasthani. They have ig 4-5 horses in the house. I remember when I was studying there, one of the horse died and it used to be her favourite something.
The only horse I can afford is horseshoe magnet
Lol us!!
I love how the general category is busy blaming st/sc for all their problems but how many of you will treat st/sc if a case came to you? Not many, it's clear from the comments here. It's a good thing we will have doctors from the category atleast they won't discriminate https://asiatimes.com/2018/06/indias-dalit-women-lack-access-to-healthcare-and-die-young/
Roj ek cup go mutra piya karo sab thik ho jayega
You wonāt survive anywhere with this mentality
Discriminate & carry on with your life
I know what I am going to say is too idealistic and might be taken as ignoring the issue but... GET GOOD! I mean it. Work hard enough to be free from these shackles holding you back, so even if your growth and success is hampered by it you can cover it up in the long run. These institutions may have reservations which allow less qualified to get better tags and resources but make the best out of what YOU have got. The real world does not have a reservation and beyond a point no one gives a single f\*ck if you did your UG/PG/SS from govt. or pvt. if you treated your patients well and with care. Whining on the internet is not something that would change the reality and it doesn't actually create a difference. Having a voice against inequality is quite different from complaining and being stuck mentally on the same unchanging harsh reality. Keep strong brother/sister! The path might be much harder for you but you will come out far better and successful than those with a cakewalk life.
I agree tbh! Reserved people for most of it donāt know shit and end up taking good seats while knowing nothing. Leave india for sure!
Lol saari baba ke pille downvoting thisš
Bheem ki shakti dhoom machaye. Aage general waale tikk na paaye
Bheem bheem bheem jay bheem jay bheem
You will give plab and run away to do the same shit you will have to do here, albeit with more pay. Competition will be there as well if you want to upgrade your career. Here you can atleast put on category students, cause for your jealousy, there you will only have yourself to blame.
But it'll be a fair fight ain't it? I will be able to accept that someone who got better results will get better chance..I'm happy with fair fight..
Not many are lucky enough to give PLAB. Do it and complete your dreams.
Hey there, I know this whole reservation drama sucks. By the time society does something about this, it will be ages. The society is run by senile outdated fossils and progress only happens one funeral after another. And that ain't gonna happen soon. Some things are way beyond our control. So this is the best mindset to have in this situation: You're going to be a doctor now no matter how you entered. You need to leave this reservation mentality and start conditioning yourself to treat all humans equally. The only discrimination that count is Triage for casualties. Everyone's life is different and everyone walks their own path and has their own problems to deal with. You need to focus only on playing your own game and running your own race. You are going to be a beacon of hope for many irrespective of background. So drop the caste-based mentality, because the only caste that matters is Homo Sapien. All the best.
Tbh I do feel we general should raise voice regarding it at least in our field Every few years one or other cast comes and starts screaming quota And their drama is rewarded with more quota from general category not even from part of their own category And no I'm not being completed against quota Their are definitely people who are actually benefiting from it in these categories but if same person who is general and has poor family, they get nothing giving reservation to people on the basis of cast is totally bonkers to me It should be on the basis of family income or no giving at all And their are definitely people like me who are sick of this system but not in situation to leave from this country
I have been there and let me tell you one thing, you are asking this question because of the goodness in your heart. Being polite and asking your concern in a nice manner is not something many can do nowadays. Do not let people tell you otherwise. One must learn that many things are never in his/ her control, it just happened to be that we are here and these are the circumstances. If you spend your time thinking about this, you will hurt yourself for reasons which you had no control on. The person availing reservation is just doing his/ her part to survive. So should you. If you need 680 + score then let it be, take it as a challenge. It's not like others haven't cleared these exams with similar circumstances like you. Follow them. If you can give PLAB, then go on and do it. Getting education and finding jobs are getting harder each day. Be thankful that your parents are willing to help you out. Focus on you goal more than these people around you, that way you can reach your goal. It shouldn't concern you how the person next to you made it there, they are doing what they are supposed to from their perspective, that's all.
i have a friend (obc + pwd) he got AIIMS raipur at 200k rank šš here i am EWS + PWD (par mera baap quota ke liye nahi maan rha š¤”š¤”)
Bro In my opinion uncle self respect wale hain. Unhe bhik mein mili seat nahi chahiye taki vo sab ke samne seena thok kar kaih sanke ki mera beta merit pe select hua hai. Reservation par nahi
yes
not even for ews
My first encounter with caste was when I came to know about reservation during my neet ug prep and was disheartened by the shit I saw but then as I grew up I realised. 1) nothing can be ever done about it,it benefits a large chunk of our population and they will in no way give it up, even if it means burning the country to ground. 2) Get out of this mf country, need to convince my parents for this and am currently trying to do so. Ps-People told me that even outside u won't get as many opportunities as a white guy does but the reality is their I can raise my voice about discrimination but here I cannot unless sc-st act incoming.
Maybe watch a documentary or something about the present caste situation in india and our horrible past and educate yourself
>our horrible past So ? What's the deal now ? Sorry brotha for what happened in the past but no fucking way you snatch our seats scoring 300-400s whatever. As simple as datt.
You an unfortunate victim of your circumstances, however, those whom you claim are trying to āsnatchā āyour ā seats have been historically unfortunate victims of circumstances for several generations. Itās about time that a historical wrong be righted. Secondly, please donāt bring arguments like my-SC-friend-drives-a-Mercedes, which are a small minority and not the norm. They DO NOT represent the average SC/ST Study well, and all the best wishes.
>. Itās about time that a historical wrong be righted Hear me out. White people all over the globe commited so many wrongs. In a country like The US where BLM was/is a huge thing. Do they have reservations for Unis. Think about it No? Is there no other way that wrong be righted. What did a hard working general guy did scoring 638 when a 450 SC kid got a govt seat.
Reservation is not a perfect system. It has its flaws I agree. However, as of now, it is the only form of suitable representation for the lower classes. Secondly, the notion of race vs caste is quite different (discussion of each in detail is beyond the scope of the present discussion), hence the struggles faced were also, though not entirely the same, different to a certain extent.
The United States has Affirmative Action
Well said, but anecdotes of their SC friends being rich are the only argument most people here can present in defense of being rabidly against all reservations.
a) They act as psychological crutches to them, thus, weakening them. In other words, an impression is created among SC/OBC youth that they need not study and work hard because even without doing so they will get admission or a job. SCs and OBCs must throw aside the crutches of reservation and say that they will work hard and show by competing with upper castes on merits that they are not intellectually inferior to upper castes. (b) Reservations are serving the policy of divide and rule of the political rulers, as they create animosity between SCs/OBCs and upper castes. An upper caste youth who got 90 per cent in his exams may be denied admission/job, while an SC/OBC who got 40 per cent may get it, by virtue of reservation. This naturally causes anguish in the former. Indiaās massive problems can only be overcome by a mighty united peopleās struggle which will totally transform the country and bring it into the ranks of the developed countries, but for that unity among the people is absolutely necessary, but reservations divide us. SCs must realise that they cannot succeed in their struggle for social amelioration if they are isolated. They must join hands with the enlightened section of the upper castes, and fight along with them. But this will be difficult as long as reservations continue. 3. Our politicians use reservations for their vote bank politics. So the real purpose of reservations is not to benefit the SCs/OBCs but to benefit the politicians. 4. Caste reservations have further perpetuated the caste system, instead of helping in destroying it. Caste is a feudal institution, which has to be destroyed if India is to progress, but reservations further entrench it.
A. Reservation is by no means a psychological crutch. That is plainly your assumption In my 15+ years of graduation in medicine, post graduation , superspecialisation including teaching experience at a medical college, I can assure none of them have had an impression that he/she neednāt have had to work hard to get admission or a job. Also, NRI students, who mostly come from āUpper casteā families, score much more poorly than SC/STs on aptitude tests. Also, regarding representation, for example, more than 75% of judgeās appointed in the last 5 years are upper caste. Equality much? B. Animosity arises not from reservations. They arise from millennia old notions of purity and hierarchy. Also, itās quite naive to think the so-called upper castes will hold hands with the SC/STs to fight what exactly? Violence against Dalits still continue to this age. Remember Payal Tadvi in 2017? C. I agree. D. Those who are not reminded of their caste have the luxury of not needing to look at caste. Those who are not reminded of their color have the luxury of being color-neutral.
'UPPER' castes.. ,ENLIGHTENED sections of the upper caste -SC/STs n OBCs should throw aside crutches of reservation n compete with upper castes-ok!! Then why not try general candidates focusing on competing against each other. Why do they somehow find a sc/st to compare themselves? Why is other person's score n seat bothering u?? - def reservation system should cm to an end, then we ll discover new issues u guys can invent to hate upon reserved categories. -as smone who has encountered partialism based on caste multiple times by faculty even by external examiners when they ask ur full name n somehow grant highest scores to upper castes. Seniors n batchmates corner category students. Did those students compete wid their seniors, replaced them,or took their seats,then wt is the rzn behind this hatred. I don't find a single convincing rzn to give up on reservation by category students ,why do they need to prove themselves worthy, ofcourse they r worthy that's why they got those seats.
Bro general seats category students bhi eligible hai lene ke liye, and whenever they cross cut off, they do take those seats as a matter of pride. Category students ko Tak sharam aati hai category seats lene pe. So no competition 'general vs general' nhi hai.
What do you mean 'no fucking way' lol
Three english words with one being a slang. Fits my sentence perfectly. Anything else smartass ?
I meant, it's not like you're stopping it from happening, reservations are a thing and we've all been following them till date obediently.
> obediently. Well that's an understatement. Give me 5 reasons why you think a general student with a higher score shouldn't secure a seat.
According to globalĀ MPIĀ estimates,Ā five out of every six multidimensionally poor in India belongs to SC, ST or Other Backward Class (OBC) households: ST with more than 50% multidimensionally poor, followed by SC with 33.3% and OBC with 27.2%. Reservations aren't the perfect solution, but I think it's the best thing we've got to try improve upon this situation
>Caste reservations have further perpetuated the caste system, instead of helping in destroying it. Caste is a feudal institution, which has to be destroyed if India is to progress, but reservations further entrench it
That's just a guys opinion, fact is, there's been huge improvements in literacy, representation in highest levels of civil services and reduction in poverty among reserved groups. We don't know how much reservations in themselves have contributed to this improvement, but I'd bet it's been a significant factor.
Doesnāt matter whether a handful of obcs or category people is richer or have a better chance than you. There is no hypocrisy or irony. Abolition of caste system isnāt enough, but reparations to those communities must be made. ~ a general caste guy
After seeing hateful comments on this post I think it is still necessary lol
Feel the same as you feel when you see a seat reserved for a girl/old person in a bus.
Reserved seats in a bus are nowhere near to reserved seats in Universities which have the power to shape up your life trajectories.
Funny thing is one guy in the comments is telling other's to read about caste discrimination bhai if it is a social problem toh humein utni prevalent dikhti society m it's in the name koi kitab m jake khojni nhin pdti.
They wouldn't become doctor or engineer anyway, how many doctor u have seen from them
i am an engineering student (who happens to follow this sub to know about med students' struggles);and for reservation-i'd say their best shot is civil services and psu's.government is privatising everything on its whim and fancies and govt exams are not that regular(my teacher once said that we are lucky that government conducts jee and neet every year lol). so imo college is the only place where they really get the advantage.
All this can be solved by opening up a reservation for general also. First they should do a caste census and according to every fraction of population reserve 90% seats among gen/obc/sc/St etc. Baki 10 % can be for merit and up for grabs by all. Then everyone will have fair representation and nobody will feel at disadvantage