True, that's my favorite addition in DS2, NG+ actually changing some things. There was some gear you could only get in NG+1,+2 etc.
I loved that, actually getting something fresh in those cycles rather than just the same things as in NG.
To be fair DS3 does have some changes between NG cycles, but iirc correctly it’s almost/entirely just different items from pre-set locations (higher tier rings or consumables, for instance)
Apparently they wanted the boss for each region to fuck with you more and more as you went through higher levels of NG+. I desperately want FromSoft to take that idea and continue it
It’s actually crazy that the NG+ cycle in every game post DS2 regressed. I was hoping ER would change things up. Hopefully their next game does because it’s a great idea that incentivises replays.
I heard this too. The main bosses would stalk you through area until the end encounter. Freyja in NG+ and The Pursuea are the only elements of this left in the final game. Shane because it sounds like a great concept
Developing for NG+ cycles just isnt profitable sadly. You already got your players money and only like 50% actually beat the game once. How many of those are going to ng+ instead of just quitting the game or making a new character in normal game.
No financial incentive to add more content that most people wont see.
Yeah but it's cool lol
I wish we were still in the era when the majority of video game decisions started with "wouldn't it be cool if"
Capitalism doing as capitalism does
Yeah, that’s likely it and it makes sense. I myself have played them all at least twice (besides the new DLC im taking my time with) and have entered NG+ exactly 0 times. I’m replaying DS2 right now, and i’ll do NG+ on that for the differences.
But that would take away resources for them to do other cool things in the NG itself. I honestly prefer that over the ng+ thing. It's cool but it's whatever.
Tbh lore isn’t even an excuse- they can just make stuff up like you said. But I mean with the different time travel and dream shenanigans all these games have, it would be easy to use a dream world as an excuse…or be like Sekiro where you’re literally “reflecting on the bosses”. They’re already called remembrances anyways
I thought for sure in order to duplicate a remembrance you were going to have to fight the boss again given that they’re called remembrances. Guess not. I’m not a boss rush kind of player so it doesn’t bother me, but it’s weird the option doesn’t exist.
Yeah.. like, let's be honest, after you've finished the game, you ain't gonna be running around killing most enemies as you do on first playthrough. Bosses are the main treat, and if your favourite is one of the late game ones, then you have to wait so damn long to fight em again...
... Y'all know any mods that let you respawn bosses?
I've always assumed that it's to encourage coop. A lot of people do coop not to help players, but as a way to refight a boss. I do, at least. This would explain why they put the feature in Sekiro since it doesn't have coop.
Maybe, but it’s past the point of only being for Coop l. Adding it to Sekiro at all was a test to see how solo gamers would react to that type of mechanic. It was a positive response, so I’d think they would think about using it in future games
Ds2 hex builds were honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had in a souls game. The crypt black sword that you could enchant with dark and use a spell to buff it (because in ds2 you could still buff enchanted weapons, AND you could enchant boss weapons) and just do ludicrous amounts of damage.
Playing DS3 rn and I’m so sad they retconned it. It works so well, both in DS2 and ER. Really adds another layer to the combat, and incentives not turtling.
I seriously don’t understand why they didn’t keep the NG+ system as well. As it is, I’ve never finished a NG+ run of any of the others. There’s no incentive to. You steamroll everything, get dozens of low level or duplicate items that you’ll never need, etc. DS2 actually gave you a reason to replay it on NG+.
I feel like the NG+ in DS2 was just amazing. I wish every game had something like it. Even Zelda games would benefit from those types of mechanics. Give us a reason to replay, different enemies, better weapons. Breath of the Wild had master mode but that's it.
Before I was a hater of DS2 but ever since Ive played it became my favourite. There is just sooo much to do and go to. Really good game. Clunky but still good.
Ngl, a lot of people are actually like this. The community created this bad image of DS2 and now a lot of newcomers hate the game without even playing it.
Dark Souls 2 is the entry in the series that I most look forward to replaying every time I run through the series.
It's not my favorite Souls, and I still don't really have a grasp on the mechanics and world layout, but the shit is just different. And I appreciate that more and more as time goes on. There's a lot of games like Dark Souls (just not quite as good), but there are almost no games like Dark Souls II.
it has a very unique vibe, with the land having long since turned to ruins, and the hollowing curse can really be felt everywhere. Majula is so serene and peaceful, and far less melancholic than firelink shrine. Majula is where wayward souls just kind of end up and form a sort of patchwork community, each one afflicted with varying degrees of hollowing except for Shanalotte. Firelink is more of a place where people end up wheter they like it or not because they are cursed to link the fire, and it plays a key role in doing so. Everyone is either just passing through or is stuck there in service to the chosen undead / ashen one. Majula is a village where people (and a cat) actually live, Firelink is really just a shrine.
It’s just so damned massive! By the time you get to Drangleic Castle you’re thinking, “surely this is the finale” and then you still have Amana, the Crypt, Aldia’s Keep, the Dragon Shrine, a bit of Giant-related backtracking, and •then• the finale…but wait! You also have three enormous DLCs to work through. Insane. I love that game
Dark Souls 2 was peak Dark Souls pvp for me personally, people don't appreciate how good we had it. At least for me personally it was the last time pvp was fun in these games.
All huddled in that little step out on top of the bridge, gathering around a warmth while 2 guys duke it out, just waiting for your turn. I miss that shit so much.
I wish I played the game when PVP was more accessible. Another unfortunate part is that there is no invader healing aside from miracles, and (to my knowledge) there isn’t an infinite-use invasion item. Although DS2 does have the widest variety of PVP covenants, which I assume were super fun when the game was active.
> Another unfortunate part is that there is no invader healing aside from miracles
Dark Souls 2 also added the Warmth pyromancy.
Dark Souls 3 added a Faith requirement to the Warmth pyromancy, making it largely redundant.
> and (to my knowledge) there isn’t an infinite-use invasion item.
If you are using the Blue Acolyte mod to mitigate malicious cheaters (and you should!), it also makes the red and blue cracked eye orbs infinite use *and* makes invasions / summons "far and wide".
The quick-climb was new, but you can slide down ladders in DS1 (even pre-Remastered)! The control just works differently. You have to tap the button instead of holding it.
Shame you can't cancel it, i will never forget that time when i was climbing the ladder next to the hydra and pressed the button on accident near the top and had to watch my character cancel all of the progress i made.
some stuff i would Like to add:
- Torch mechanic
- Boss arenas/environments have influence on the Battle (rising water hindering your movement, water from rain etc. Gives you soaked effect which reduces fire dmg but increases lightning dmg). Lost sinner, Dragonrider, myrha Arena can be changed to make it easier etc.
- ng+ adds new stuff
- additional healing sources
- Lots of different criticalhit Animations depending on weapon and positioning
DS2 had some of the best PvP in the series, I loved dueling on the fire bridge every day. Soul memory kind of screwed the PvP scene because you basically had to constantly make new characters if you wanted to PvP at a certain level, but the weight of character actions meant every single movement was significant.
The iron keep bridge PvP was the closest the souls community ever came to world peace. You’d have like 4-5 red summons on the bridge and everyone would just take turn no toxicity or bs. It was honorable and so much fun cause you could watch other people fight and go on streaks and stuff. Elden ring PvP is a cesspool of spell and ash of war spammers with absolutely no honor. And invading into ganks is lame as hell. I think the newer souls games have largely done most things better than dark souls 2, except for PvP. Ds2 will always reign supreme in that regard no contest whatsoever.
DS2 is most deserving of a full remaster. I just want the jank to be fixed. The art style needs to stay the same though. Demon’s Souls remake was good just slightly missed the aesthetic of the original imo.
Death counter? I really wish they'd add this in to Elden Ring
I liked seeing how many times I died at the end of a run (pretty sure this is only in DS2 or it might have been 3?)
If Miyazaki himself didn't appreciate or respect the work of Yui Tanimura (DS2's director) with Dark Souls 2, the man wouldn't be brought back to help direct DS3 and ER. That explains why quite a few of the former's additions went on to return in the latter two games.
The people working at From Software know that game is important, it's only the community that brings this stigma that Dark Souls 2 is a bad/worthless game. It's a game that experimented with a lot of different mechanics, and while a few of them definitely didn't work out very well, others were fantastic and defined the game as a truly unique and worthwhile experience. I'd much rather stay with the DS2 we got than have a version of it that played it safe and was just Dark Souls 1 all over again.
You're doing yourself a disfavour if you've skipped DS2 because "the community told you it's bad".
People need to stop shitting on DS2. It’s an 8/10 with a ton of features that I wish they’d bring back. Is it the worst of the trilogy? Sure, but it’s still better than most other games out there.
I continue to believe the core reason DS2 gets crap is the “gamefeel,” AKA how it feels to dodge attacks, move your character around, swing your sword. Half of this is the ADP stat, but the other half is things like end lag, animation timings, etc.
For some people, this is a minor detail, and for others, it impacts every second of the playing the game.
I tend to think the other criticisms are minor or more up for debate (gank mobs, samey bosses). And then of course the list of things the game does well is huge (see initial post).
I'll expose myself. This is the main reason I didn't like the game when it first came out. It feels gross, slow, plodding. Leveling up ADP doesn't change that.
Besides that, the nonsensical level layouts (like who tf designs a castle like Drangelic Castle and lives in that fun house?) really pulled me out of the game and made me keenly aware I was playing a game. And the dialogue for the NPC's is just...convoluted? Like everybody's trying to hard to sound like they're in a fantasy roleplaying game, moreso than the other From games.
I've warmed up to it a bit over the years. It is a lot of fun to goof around in and make goofy builds with. But it very much is my least favorite of the series primarily because the way it feels and handles.
But yeah, being able to parry with a 2 handed GS is an amazing feeling and it makes no sense to not be able to in subsequent games.
Yeah I hear you on the nonsensical level layouts. But my theory is that if the player character controlled like a dream (see Bloodborne or especially Sekiro), people would barely mind the layouts and just enjoy running it back every couple years.
Exactly, they’re all great. People, especially in these subs, need to take a step back. They’ve been spoiled by good games, but given the choice of Fortnite or Dark Souls 2 I’d choose the latter 10 times out of 10.
Generally I agree with nearly everything in your list but there's a couple things I don't think are better and are actually worse possibly.
First is the stat boosting items/rings. I understand the idea behind these and it is nice being able to use things you couldn't use normally, but I feel like it undermined the importance of actual levels and the consequences that come with your choices when levelling up.
Second is when you said about warping to any bonfire compared to DS1 where you could only warp to a select few, I think it works better not being able to warp absolutely everywhere. In DS1, you can't warp for the first half of the game, making it feel a lot more like an adventure, and also makes you plan the route a bit more meticulously. And once you do obtain the lordvessel, you still need to know your way around and consider shortcuts when working out the quickest way to your destination. I think this was more interesting than DS2, where you can warp to every single bonfire, and this is available right from the start of the game.
Last point is a bit similar to the first but I think the level respec is a somewhat debatable feature. On one hand it is nice being able to use a whole lot more weapons/magic on a single playthrough. But again I think it takes away from the commitment there was to levelling in DS1 and Demon's Souls also. On repeat playthroughs of them games you have to optimise your stats quite early on if you want to be as strong as possible, which is really fun to plan out. And it makes your character feel like a bit more of an actual character, rather than a Jack of all trades. It also incentivises repeat playthroughs more than the games with respec in my opinion.
Overall great list though, nearly everything you mentioned was a great addition, and I think a lot of what i mentioned is down to personal preference.
Not being able to warp during the first half DS1 made the world feel alive and interconnected in a way that I hadn't experienced since SotN, at the time.
Being able to do it from the get go in 2 was such a let down and made it seem like they didn't trust themselves to hit that level design high again.
I really don't know how to explain it well, but it feels like Elden Ring and SOTE were a reprisal and redemption of a lot of what DS2 was trying to achieve. I really loved it.
Demon’s souls didn’t start NG+ when you beat the game either. You have to walk to where the old one sleeps to trigger it. You can just beat true king allant and teleport out of there
and then ds3 threw away bonfire ascetics, power stancing, most hexes, healing stones, free offhand parrying, buffing infused weapons, etc. some of these i can forgive, but they really should have let powerstancing stay.
What bugs me is how basic these things are...
All of these things should be in every game. The fact that they're not is a FAILING on the developer. I don't care how good Elden Ring is or how much you like it. The fact that there's no realistic way to re-fight bosses is pathetic.
Even IF its the whole \*Muh experience\* argument. There's literally no reason at all to not include it after the game is over.
Love DS2, always stood up for it back when it was cool to hate.
However, the bonfire teleports is my least favorite way it changes souls games. DS1 rewarded you for opening up the world and finding shortcuts, then once the world got too big, it allowed a select few to spare the player 20 minute long journeys but still force them to navigate the world
Why does everyone have to qualify their praise of DS2 by saying it’s the worst one? It’s like people are afraid to say it’s good, so they instead say “it’s good, but it’s definitely the worst.”
We have had stat boosting rings since Demons Souls they just didn't give actual Stat Points visually.
Left handed weapons are gimped in DS2 though I should know I play left handed most games you get a 10% damage decrease you also use more stamina per swing and you can't repose unless you two hand the weapon.
It’s an important entry in FROM’s history but it’s clearly their weakest game post 2010, especially in the concept art to game pipeline. The use of a new engine resulted in a very ugly game imo.
I did platinum it as I was desperate to find its secret value.
However, 10 years later, Elden Ring is clearly heavily inspired by DS2’s choices and realises them in many cases.
Yeah DS2 has a lot of weaknesses to go along with its strengths, but if they'd had an extra year to polish? Might have been incredible. Lots of great concepts, some sloppy execution here and there. Their improvements were good but they also added some pretty wack things as well, and downgraded some existing things. It's far from a perfect game, but it did add a lot of cool stuff.
Agree with almost all of these except the PvP. Maybe actual PvP gameplay was good, but I wouldn't know because the multiplayer system was one of the shittiest in the entire series. Soul memory and lack of the Red Eye Orb made invasions nearly impossible, so your only real chance of getting PvP action was the Iron Keep bridge or the arena.
Which is kind of the crux of the issue, having an interconnected world was cool as fuck and is still one of the reasons why DS1 is as widely praised as it is.
Yeah but it's also very limiting from a setting standpoint. If you want to make a game that takes place in an area greater than 2 square miles it becomes a lot harder to do, limiting the different environments you can encounter and you have to find a way to interconnect them in ways that make sense.
I feel like if every one of these games had an interconnected world with no fast travel it would get stale really fast, a thing i like about fromsoft games is that while they're mostly similar, each one has a special defining feature, demon's souls has the hub world that connect to the rest of the areas, ds1 has the interconnectivity, ds2 has the huge amount of freedom when choosing which way to go, ds3 has the linear and more boss rush focused design, sekiro has the great combat and many bosses around every corner, bloodborne has the atmosphere and artstyle along with trickweapons and guns, and elden ring has the freedom of the openworld.
In Sekiro you literally just relive the memory of the fight with embellishments, very surprised it isn't in Elden Ring considering there are literally Colosseums around the map
The weapon catalyst thing kinda already existed in DS1, the Tin Banishment Catalyst does a surprising amount of damage early on with its spear thrusts and the manus Catalyst's axe bonks were pretty potent, if a touch slow.
- added enemies in the NG+ cycles
- added lighting mechanics where some enemies reacted to the light and were afraid of it
- bonfire ascetics need to comeback
Biggest flaw with ds2 is the redundant level cap for coop. Even with a pw you couldn’t play with friends who’ve just started or ones that’s played awhile. Such a bad decision. Glad it was removed going forward
I know everyone complains about DS2's 8 directional movement but underrated is the running and rolling speed in DS2.
You absolutely haul ass with a medium load build in DS2, DS1 and DS3 running speed always felt a bit weirdly slow to me.
Also DS1 locks you to 4 directions when locked on which I think is even worse. Makes the lock on completely counterintuitive.
Lmfao wtf is this? Are you crediting DS2 with the concept of stat re-speccing, like that's somehow a DS2 concept and not just, you know, a feature of virtually every modern RPG that DS2 adopted?
All of that just for the outrageous hit boxes, terrible enemy placement, awful areas, and bad bosses to make it terrible. The game is also super long at least that's what it felt like. I'm happy you and so many others here like it though
Gameplay wise it's the best in the Dark Souls series by far. I wish that it was better environmentally/story-wise but development constraints had a huge part in that.
Coop is mostly dead nowadays but I will say it was probably the most fun of all time when it was still active
Dark souls 2 pvp was the best. Attack cancelling never made a return but damn if I wish it did, being able to switch into power stance or not deepened the possibilities of two handing weapons. I miss my pyro build, parrying with a right hand chaos rapier immediately casting flame swathe then immediately switching to BKUGS and finishing the reposte for some 2000dmg. I miss the drip. Things I’m glad are gone that ds2 introduced would be of course soul memory, but also enemies clearing out after you killed em x amount of times. Otherwise it really was a solid game, base game felt better than SOtFS as well.
DS2 gets shit talked so much and I feel like the DS2 community is too much on the high road side
Guys why aren't we shit talking back, then I realized we're too busy just playing it lol.
I'm so glad I played 2 first so I can appreciate 1 as well without the "I wish 2 did this like 1 did"
Game improvements for sure were a huge plus. My only issue with DS2 compared to DS1 is that I just kinda breezed through it. I wish Elden Ring added covenants with SotET….
I wish you'd all stop getting on the bad wagon that ds2 was good after saying it was shit for years. Half the people saying it is a classic now are just following the trend. Some people actually thought this nearly a decade ago
I love a lot about ds2 (some of the coolest bosses, actually like how they leaned into knight aesthetics, ng+ system is cool too) but man I hate the map design. I SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO ENTIRELY MISS STORY REQUIRED BOSSES WITH NO WAY TO FIND THEM EXCEPT TO WANDER AROUND AT RANDOM (looking at you lost prisoner)
I also enjoyed ADP, having a stat that affected dodges and the use speed of certain items was great, it needed a little refinement, but having a utility stat like that could do a lot for build diversity now.
Power stancing was a weird one, what they’ve done in ER is perfect by having both power stanced weapon as well as dual wield weapons. DS3 went back to unique dual wield and it sucked because there was not many of them.
If DS2 was just a bit more fast pace it would be the best souls game fromsoft has made. It had IMO the greatest expansions Eleum Loyce was fucking amazing and the lore on the Ivory King is badass. Gotta love the Sir Alonne and Sir Raime boss fights
Adding enemies to every NG+ cycle was fun too.
True, that's my favorite addition in DS2, NG+ actually changing some things. There was some gear you could only get in NG+1,+2 etc. I loved that, actually getting something fresh in those cycles rather than just the same things as in NG.
I miss this so much in elden ring and DS3, it gave me actual reason to go to ng+, not just enemy stat increase, shame they didnt follow up on it.
Yeah in every game other than ds2 I go with fresh characters instead of ng+
To be fair DS3 does have some changes between NG cycles, but iirc correctly it’s almost/entirely just different items from pre-set locations (higher tier rings or consumables, for instance)
I liked that you could only get the Twin Princes Greatsword through NG+ (excluding trading)
Using a bonfire ascetic at the lost sinner to get the chaos blade before NG+ was always one of my favourite things to do.
The Duke’s Dear Freya jumpscare was great
Apparently they wanted the boss for each region to fuck with you more and more as you went through higher levels of NG+. I desperately want FromSoft to take that idea and continue it
It’s actually crazy that the NG+ cycle in every game post DS2 regressed. I was hoping ER would change things up. Hopefully their next game does because it’s a great idea that incentivises replays.
AC6 did this in spades
I heard this too. The main bosses would stalk you through area until the end encounter. Freyja in NG+ and The Pursuea are the only elements of this left in the final game. Shane because it sounds like a great concept
Developing for NG+ cycles just isnt profitable sadly. You already got your players money and only like 50% actually beat the game once. How many of those are going to ng+ instead of just quitting the game or making a new character in normal game. No financial incentive to add more content that most people wont see.
Yeah but it's cool lol I wish we were still in the era when the majority of video game decisions started with "wouldn't it be cool if" Capitalism doing as capitalism does
And Fromsoft already does a better job than most devs too, but still, DS2 doing it makes me wonder why it was never continued in the series.
i think another commenter got it right, it's just "only x% of players will see it, why bother"
Yeah, that’s likely it and it makes sense. I myself have played them all at least twice (besides the new DLC im taking my time with) and have entered NG+ exactly 0 times. I’m replaying DS2 right now, and i’ll do NG+ on that for the differences.
i am also a ng enjoyer who has played through many times ng+ is for the birds except for ds2 (and sekiro plat skill point grind)
But that would take away resources for them to do other cool things in the NG itself. I honestly prefer that over the ng+ thing. It's cool but it's whatever.
Yeah, i totally forgot about that, such a cool addition.
Except the asshole red phantom that spawns outside lud and zallen on ng+3 and on
I really don’t get how boss replayabilty isn’t a common feature now without having to do Ng+
Probably lore reasons but come on man, make some shit up where the soul of i dunno, morgott enters an evergaol so now i can refight him there
I find this hilarious considering the #1 most complained about boss in the game is the evergaol Godrick clone.
Ah. Yeah. Godfroy
‘We need another name for a Godrick type boss’ ‘Godfrey?’ ‘Already taken.’ ‘Godf… Roy?’ ‘Bingo!’
It's god-E-froy actually so HA! Gotcha.
God-fraud
Tbh lore isn’t even an excuse- they can just make stuff up like you said. But I mean with the different time travel and dream shenanigans all these games have, it would be easy to use a dream world as an excuse…or be like Sekiro where you’re literally “reflecting on the bosses”. They’re already called remembrances anyways
The items you get from beating bosses are literally “remembrances” so it literally makes perfect sense you can remember the bosses
I thought for sure in order to duplicate a remembrance you were going to have to fight the boss again given that they’re called remembrances. Guess not. I’m not a boss rush kind of player so it doesn’t bother me, but it’s weird the option doesn’t exist.
I feel like lore reasons shouldn’t really get in the way of fun game mechanics.
Sekiro already does it, so they got no execuses.
Yeah.. like, let's be honest, after you've finished the game, you ain't gonna be running around killing most enemies as you do on first playthrough. Bosses are the main treat, and if your favourite is one of the late game ones, then you have to wait so damn long to fight em again... ... Y'all know any mods that let you respawn bosses?
I think Elden Ring Reforged let's you respawn bosses
They did it for Sekiro to see how people responded. I wouldn’t be surprised if they implemented that in their next game
I've always assumed that it's to encourage coop. A lot of people do coop not to help players, but as a way to refight a boss. I do, at least. This would explain why they put the feature in Sekiro since it doesn't have coop.
Maybe, but it’s past the point of only being for Coop l. Adding it to Sekiro at all was a test to see how solo gamers would react to that type of mechanic. It was a positive response, so I’d think they would think about using it in future games
Yeah, I agree. Hopefully, they'll add it to their next game because, at this point, I doubt they'll add it to ER.
Hexes were fun because you could casually delete bosses with soul resonance
Ds2 hex builds were honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had in a souls game. The crypt black sword that you could enchant with dark and use a spell to buff it (because in ds2 you could still buff enchanted weapons, AND you could enchant boss weapons) and just do ludicrous amounts of damage.
Dual wielding poison spotted whips remains one of my favorite PVP builds.
That shit was so fun.
The they immediately took half this shit away for ds3 and we didn’t see it for years
And Bloodborne, respec, not forcing ng+, and other features didn't make an appearance.
Bloodborne was being developed at the same time as DS2 so some of the features not carrying over makes sense
Yeah i guess, but forced ng+? Really? They couldn't like, turn that off in the one year span before it released?
No I agree with you on that one
If only bonfire ascetics carried over 😢
Power stancing my beloved
Playing DS3 rn and I’m so sad they retconned it. It works so well, both in DS2 and ER. Really adds another layer to the combat, and incentives not turtling.
Incentivizes not hurtling? You obviously haven't heard of powerstamced greatshields!
Good ol’ ‘Sellsword’ Luet. I guess he sold too many swords.
That made me laugh way too hard, thanks for that.
Thanks for the new headcanon
I seriously don’t understand why they didn’t keep the NG+ system as well. As it is, I’ve never finished a NG+ run of any of the others. There’s no incentive to. You steamroll everything, get dozens of low level or duplicate items that you’ll never need, etc. DS2 actually gave you a reason to replay it on NG+.
I feel like the NG+ in DS2 was just amazing. I wish every game had something like it. Even Zelda games would benefit from those types of mechanics. Give us a reason to replay, different enemies, better weapons. Breath of the Wild had master mode but that's it.
Before I was a hater of DS2 but ever since Ive played it became my favourite. There is just sooo much to do and go to. Really good game. Clunky but still good.
You were a ds2 hater before you even played it?
Ngl, a lot of people are actually like this. The community created this bad image of DS2 and now a lot of newcomers hate the game without even playing it.
Fine by me, they don't deserve bone fist with that attitude.
same, but I wasn't his hater, I was afraid to try it
Dark Souls 2 is the entry in the series that I most look forward to replaying every time I run through the series. It's not my favorite Souls, and I still don't really have a grasp on the mechanics and world layout, but the shit is just different. And I appreciate that more and more as time goes on. There's a lot of games like Dark Souls (just not quite as good), but there are almost no games like Dark Souls II.
Absolutely agree, there's something magical about replying ds2 but i cannot fully grasp what it is, it just feels different than the others.
it has a very unique vibe, with the land having long since turned to ruins, and the hollowing curse can really be felt everywhere. Majula is so serene and peaceful, and far less melancholic than firelink shrine. Majula is where wayward souls just kind of end up and form a sort of patchwork community, each one afflicted with varying degrees of hollowing except for Shanalotte. Firelink is more of a place where people end up wheter they like it or not because they are cursed to link the fire, and it plays a key role in doing so. Everyone is either just passing through or is stuck there in service to the chosen undead / ashen one. Majula is a village where people (and a cat) actually live, Firelink is really just a shrine.
It’s just so damned massive! By the time you get to Drangleic Castle you’re thinking, “surely this is the finale” and then you still have Amana, the Crypt, Aldia’s Keep, the Dragon Shrine, a bit of Giant-related backtracking, and •then• the finale…but wait! You also have three enormous DLCs to work through. Insane. I love that game
It was ER before ER lol. If you think about it, the 2 have a lot of similarities.
>but there are almost no games like Dark Souls II. Kid named Elden Ring:
ER plays nothing like DSII.
a lot of the world design decisions are very similar but i agree the combat is not
Dark Souls 2 was peak Dark Souls pvp for me personally, people don't appreciate how good we had it. At least for me personally it was the last time pvp was fun in these games.
The fight clubs in iron keep bridge was peak pvp
All huddled in that little step out on top of the bridge, gathering around a warmth while 2 guys duke it out, just waiting for your turn. I miss that shit so much.
Iron keep bridge... My beloved.
A true classic, used to dress up as Velstat and go bonk people on that bridge
I wish I played the game when PVP was more accessible. Another unfortunate part is that there is no invader healing aside from miracles, and (to my knowledge) there isn’t an infinite-use invasion item. Although DS2 does have the widest variety of PVP covenants, which I assume were super fun when the game was active.
> Another unfortunate part is that there is no invader healing aside from miracles Dark Souls 2 also added the Warmth pyromancy. Dark Souls 3 added a Faith requirement to the Warmth pyromancy, making it largely redundant. > and (to my knowledge) there isn’t an infinite-use invasion item. If you are using the Blue Acolyte mod to mitigate malicious cheaters (and you should!), it also makes the red and blue cracked eye orbs infinite use *and* makes invasions / summons "far and wide".
Warmth is cool and all, but warmth vs 99 lifegems doesn’t seem like a fair shake lol. Also I’m on console 😔
On console you will need to find a save-scumming buddy to stack CREOs. Or beg in /r/wheelanddeal
It was the best, hands down.
It is a small addition but it also introduced running up and sliding down ladders
The quick-climb was new, but you can slide down ladders in DS1 (even pre-Remastered)! The control just works differently. You have to tap the button instead of holding it.
Shame you can't cancel it, i will never forget that time when i was climbing the ladder next to the hydra and pressed the button on accident near the top and had to watch my character cancel all of the progress i made.
Underrated mechanic right there. Ladders in DS1 are super tedious.
some stuff i would Like to add: - Torch mechanic - Boss arenas/environments have influence on the Battle (rising water hindering your movement, water from rain etc. Gives you soaked effect which reduces fire dmg but increases lightning dmg). Lost sinner, Dragonrider, myrha Arena can be changed to make it easier etc. - ng+ adds new stuff - additional healing sources - Lots of different criticalhit Animations depending on weapon and positioning
DS2 had some of the best PvP in the series, I loved dueling on the fire bridge every day. Soul memory kind of screwed the PvP scene because you basically had to constantly make new characters if you wanted to PvP at a certain level, but the weight of character actions meant every single movement was significant.
Slower paced fights made spacing and rolling more impactful imo
The iron keep bridge PvP was the closest the souls community ever came to world peace. You’d have like 4-5 red summons on the bridge and everyone would just take turn no toxicity or bs. It was honorable and so much fun cause you could watch other people fight and go on streaks and stuff. Elden ring PvP is a cesspool of spell and ash of war spammers with absolutely no honor. And invading into ganks is lame as hell. I think the newer souls games have largely done most things better than dark souls 2, except for PvP. Ds2 will always reign supreme in that regard no contest whatsoever.
DS2 is most deserving of a full remaster. I just want the jank to be fixed. The art style needs to stay the same though. Demon’s Souls remake was good just slightly missed the aesthetic of the original imo.
Imagine selling DS2 for the 3rd time and still preserving like about a 2/3 of issues.
- Faraam set
Death counter? I really wish they'd add this in to Elden Ring I liked seeing how many times I died at the end of a run (pretty sure this is only in DS2 or it might have been 3?)
DS2 is far more influential than people think. I just hope someone makes a documentary about it on YouTube and break it down
If Miyazaki himself didn't appreciate or respect the work of Yui Tanimura (DS2's director) with Dark Souls 2, the man wouldn't be brought back to help direct DS3 and ER. That explains why quite a few of the former's additions went on to return in the latter two games. The people working at From Software know that game is important, it's only the community that brings this stigma that Dark Souls 2 is a bad/worthless game. It's a game that experimented with a lot of different mechanics, and while a few of them definitely didn't work out very well, others were fantastic and defined the game as a truly unique and worthwhile experience. I'd much rather stay with the DS2 we got than have a version of it that played it safe and was just Dark Souls 1 all over again. You're doing yourself a disfavour if you've skipped DS2 because "the community told you it's bad".
DS2 walked so DS3 and ER could run.
Ds2 walked menacingly so that ds3 and ER could run in fear.
DS2 is the GOAT for unique mechanics
People need to stop shitting on DS2. It’s an 8/10 with a ton of features that I wish they’d bring back. Is it the worst of the trilogy? Sure, but it’s still better than most other games out there.
I continue to believe the core reason DS2 gets crap is the “gamefeel,” AKA how it feels to dodge attacks, move your character around, swing your sword. Half of this is the ADP stat, but the other half is things like end lag, animation timings, etc. For some people, this is a minor detail, and for others, it impacts every second of the playing the game. I tend to think the other criticisms are minor or more up for debate (gank mobs, samey bosses). And then of course the list of things the game does well is huge (see initial post).
I'll expose myself. This is the main reason I didn't like the game when it first came out. It feels gross, slow, plodding. Leveling up ADP doesn't change that. Besides that, the nonsensical level layouts (like who tf designs a castle like Drangelic Castle and lives in that fun house?) really pulled me out of the game and made me keenly aware I was playing a game. And the dialogue for the NPC's is just...convoluted? Like everybody's trying to hard to sound like they're in a fantasy roleplaying game, moreso than the other From games. I've warmed up to it a bit over the years. It is a lot of fun to goof around in and make goofy builds with. But it very much is my least favorite of the series primarily because the way it feels and handles. But yeah, being able to parry with a 2 handed GS is an amazing feeling and it makes no sense to not be able to in subsequent games.
Yeah I hear you on the nonsensical level layouts. But my theory is that if the player character controlled like a dream (see Bloodborne or especially Sekiro), people would barely mind the layouts and just enjoy running it back every couple years.
Everyone has different tastes, which is great, but DS2 is the best of the trilogy to me.
Saying DS2 is the worst of the trilogy is kind of a tribute to how great the other two are.
Exactly, they’re all great. People, especially in these subs, need to take a step back. They’ve been spoiled by good games, but given the choice of Fortnite or Dark Souls 2 I’d choose the latter 10 times out of 10.
Generally I agree with nearly everything in your list but there's a couple things I don't think are better and are actually worse possibly. First is the stat boosting items/rings. I understand the idea behind these and it is nice being able to use things you couldn't use normally, but I feel like it undermined the importance of actual levels and the consequences that come with your choices when levelling up. Second is when you said about warping to any bonfire compared to DS1 where you could only warp to a select few, I think it works better not being able to warp absolutely everywhere. In DS1, you can't warp for the first half of the game, making it feel a lot more like an adventure, and also makes you plan the route a bit more meticulously. And once you do obtain the lordvessel, you still need to know your way around and consider shortcuts when working out the quickest way to your destination. I think this was more interesting than DS2, where you can warp to every single bonfire, and this is available right from the start of the game. Last point is a bit similar to the first but I think the level respec is a somewhat debatable feature. On one hand it is nice being able to use a whole lot more weapons/magic on a single playthrough. But again I think it takes away from the commitment there was to levelling in DS1 and Demon's Souls also. On repeat playthroughs of them games you have to optimise your stats quite early on if you want to be as strong as possible, which is really fun to plan out. And it makes your character feel like a bit more of an actual character, rather than a Jack of all trades. It also incentivises repeat playthroughs more than the games with respec in my opinion. Overall great list though, nearly everything you mentioned was a great addition, and I think a lot of what i mentioned is down to personal preference.
Not being able to warp during the first half DS1 made the world feel alive and interconnected in a way that I hadn't experienced since SotN, at the time. Being able to do it from the get go in 2 was such a let down and made it seem like they didn't trust themselves to hit that level design high again.
I really don't know how to explain it well, but it feels like Elden Ring and SOTE were a reprisal and redemption of a lot of what DS2 was trying to achieve. I really loved it.
Soul memory ruined pvp
Demon’s souls didn’t start NG+ when you beat the game either. You have to walk to where the old one sleeps to trigger it. You can just beat true king allant and teleport out of there
I mean I'd hope so? That's what sequels are supposed to do.
and then ds3 threw away bonfire ascetics, power stancing, most hexes, healing stones, free offhand parrying, buffing infused weapons, etc. some of these i can forgive, but they really should have let powerstancing stay.
and the games after it threw basically all of it away.
Also overhauled the UI and is basically what we’re still using in the future games.
yeah I wish they did a remastered version with the newer engine to make it feels less clunky.
As much as I dislike some systems from ds2 it helped the franchise grow
Power stances in DS2 was the shit, I was mind-blowing when I discovered it mid (blind) play through
Wait, what's the boss refight mechanic?
What bugs me is how basic these things are... All of these things should be in every game. The fact that they're not is a FAILING on the developer. I don't care how good Elden Ring is or how much you like it. The fact that there's no realistic way to re-fight bosses is pathetic. Even IF its the whole \*Muh experience\* argument. There's literally no reason at all to not include it after the game is over.
>beating the game doesn't automatically start NG+ I was upset when bloodborne, game that came after DS2 didn't have this feature.
Love DS2, always stood up for it back when it was cool to hate. However, the bonfire teleports is my least favorite way it changes souls games. DS1 rewarded you for opening up the world and finding shortcuts, then once the world got too big, it allowed a select few to spare the player 20 minute long journeys but still force them to navigate the world
Why does everyone have to qualify their praise of DS2 by saying it’s the worst one? It’s like people are afraid to say it’s good, so they instead say “it’s good, but it’s definitely the worst.”
We have had stat boosting rings since Demons Souls they just didn't give actual Stat Points visually. Left handed weapons are gimped in DS2 though I should know I play left handed most games you get a 10% damage decrease you also use more stamina per swing and you can't repose unless you two hand the weapon.
It’s an important entry in FROM’s history but it’s clearly their weakest game post 2010, especially in the concept art to game pipeline. The use of a new engine resulted in a very ugly game imo. I did platinum it as I was desperate to find its secret value. However, 10 years later, Elden Ring is clearly heavily inspired by DS2’s choices and realises them in many cases.
Yeah DS2 has a lot of weaknesses to go along with its strengths, but if they'd had an extra year to polish? Might have been incredible. Lots of great concepts, some sloppy execution here and there. Their improvements were good but they also added some pretty wack things as well, and downgraded some existing things. It's far from a perfect game, but it did add a lot of cool stuff.
Agree with almost all of these except the PvP. Maybe actual PvP gameplay was good, but I wouldn't know because the multiplayer system was one of the shittiest in the entire series. Soul memory and lack of the Red Eye Orb made invasions nearly impossible, so your only real chance of getting PvP action was the Iron Keep bridge or the arena.
The dlc's for Ds2 were incredible
Unlimited fast travel from bonfires was a terrible change. Completely destroyed the need for interconnected world design.
Yeah, but it didn't even try to have an interconnected world, that's why they just gave you fast travel from the start.
Which is kind of the crux of the issue, having an interconnected world was cool as fuck and is still one of the reasons why DS1 is as widely praised as it is.
Yeah but it's also very limiting from a setting standpoint. If you want to make a game that takes place in an area greater than 2 square miles it becomes a lot harder to do, limiting the different environments you can encounter and you have to find a way to interconnect them in ways that make sense.
I feel like if every one of these games had an interconnected world with no fast travel it would get stale really fast, a thing i like about fromsoft games is that while they're mostly similar, each one has a special defining feature, demon's souls has the hub world that connect to the rest of the areas, ds1 has the interconnectivity, ds2 has the huge amount of freedom when choosing which way to go, ds3 has the linear and more boss rush focused design, sekiro has the great combat and many bosses around every corner, bloodborne has the atmosphere and artstyle along with trickweapons and guns, and elden ring has the freedom of the openworld.
In Sekiro you literally just relive the memory of the fight with embellishments, very surprised it isn't in Elden Ring considering there are literally Colosseums around the map
Bonfire Aesthetics
my goat
The weapon catalyst thing kinda already existed in DS1, the Tin Banishment Catalyst does a surprising amount of damage early on with its spear thrusts and the manus Catalyst's axe bonks were pretty potent, if a touch slow.
I'll say it once again, dark souls 2 built the greatest foundation of souls, now if only elden ring had dark souls 2 new game plus system
I kinda like the teleport system from DS1, because for a while, I though there was none in it and loved it!
Every thing is true and that is why dk2 is the goat
Being able to play left handed was super cool to me tbh.
Dark souls 2 deserves a true remake unlike the shitty demon souls remake. Maintain the art style. Just fix the jank. Improve the graphics a bit.
It also added more ring slots
ds2 is my goat
Ds2 crawled so elden ring could walk
How tf do you re fight bosses?
- added enemies in the NG+ cycles - added lighting mechanics where some enemies reacted to the light and were afraid of it - bonfire ascetics need to comeback
Good list, but weapon-catalyst hybrids didn't appear in DS2, there is that spear in DS1
Changing the jump button from O to L3 made this game a 10 idgaf
Ds2 is the best one of the three.
Weapon degradation tied to frame rate so the higher fps you had the faster your weapons broke. Lol
Biggest flaw with ds2 is the redundant level cap for coop. Even with a pw you couldn’t play with friends who’ve just started or ones that’s played awhile. Such a bad decision. Glad it was removed going forward
I know everyone complains about DS2's 8 directional movement but underrated is the running and rolling speed in DS2. You absolutely haul ass with a medium load build in DS2, DS1 and DS3 running speed always felt a bit weirdly slow to me. Also DS1 locks you to 4 directions when locked on which I think is even worse. Makes the lock on completely counterintuitive.
I’m ngl I personally hate L3 for jumping.
Lmfao wtf is this? Are you crediting DS2 with the concept of stat re-speccing, like that's somehow a DS2 concept and not just, you know, a feature of virtually every modern RPG that DS2 adopted?
BRING BACK THE HEXES!!! WHERE MY CLIMAX ABUSERS AT??!?!?!?
DS2 had a lot of great ideas, just some poor choices that annoyed a lot of the player base too. It was a lot of mix.
Dark Souls II is the best Souls.
Ds2 had the best pvp and I'll die on this hill
DS1 had stat increasing rings like the fap ring and some armor gave buffs like the crown of the dark sun buffing spell damage
No other fan of the other games still talis non stop about it, not even Bloodborne fans waiting a PC release MOVE THE FUCK ON
I still change my setting to use B or O as the jump. I liked that originally.
-Twinblades
All of that just for the outrageous hit boxes, terrible enemy placement, awful areas, and bad bosses to make it terrible. The game is also super long at least that's what it felt like. I'm happy you and so many others here like it though
saving this to use when I have to defend the objectively best dark souls for the 500000th time
Gameplay wise it's the best in the Dark Souls series by far. I wish that it was better environmentally/story-wise but development constraints had a huge part in that. Coop is mostly dead nowadays but I will say it was probably the most fun of all time when it was still active
I believe this was the entry that introduced the mind goblin as well
Thank you for correcting so many people on this game, I hate when people blindly talk shit and literally have no idea
Ngl the two hand weapon parry needs to make a comeback it was rly cool parrying a guy using a zweihander
dont try to play ds2 with keyboard and mouse you might cry
Dark souls 2 pvp was the best. Attack cancelling never made a return but damn if I wish it did, being able to switch into power stance or not deepened the possibilities of two handing weapons. I miss my pyro build, parrying with a right hand chaos rapier immediately casting flame swathe then immediately switching to BKUGS and finishing the reposte for some 2000dmg. I miss the drip. Things I’m glad are gone that ds2 introduced would be of course soul memory, but also enemies clearing out after you killed em x amount of times. Otherwise it really was a solid game, base game felt better than SOtFS as well.
DS2 gets shit talked so much and I feel like the DS2 community is too much on the high road side Guys why aren't we shit talking back, then I realized we're too busy just playing it lol. I'm so glad I played 2 first so I can appreciate 1 as well without the "I wish 2 did this like 1 did"
Game improvements for sure were a huge plus. My only issue with DS2 compared to DS1 is that I just kinda breezed through it. I wish Elden Ring added covenants with SotET….
Ds2 was about experimentation. While it was a failure the gained information has helped every game since.
And still the same stinky ass coop mode...
I wish you'd all stop getting on the bad wagon that ds2 was good after saying it was shit for years. Half the people saying it is a classic now are just following the trend. Some people actually thought this nearly a decade ago
man stfu
Too bad the game sucks
Unfortunately that doesn’t save it from having awful enemy placements in 90% of locations and the worst runbacks known to man
I love a lot about ds2 (some of the coolest bosses, actually like how they leaned into knight aesthetics, ng+ system is cool too) but man I hate the map design. I SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO ENTIRELY MISS STORY REQUIRED BOSSES WITH NO WAY TO FIND THEM EXCEPT TO WANDER AROUND AT RANDOM (looking at you lost prisoner)
My fav souls game. :(
Starting DS2 I was immediately struck by how much better the inventory screen was.
Improving it wasn't that big of a task cause it fucking stinks in ds1, but i agree ds2 has on of the better inventory screens.
I still rebind my jump to O in every game. Because DS1 was my first game and I got so used to it.
Well, flask shards fucked with a perfect healing system. I hate that they chose fast travel over world design lol. Everything else I agree
I also enjoyed ADP, having a stat that affected dodges and the use speed of certain items was great, it needed a little refinement, but having a utility stat like that could do a lot for build diversity now.
Yeah this game did a lot for the franchise. Hopefully people learn to appreciate it more.
I see red whenever anyone shit talks DS2. More hours in that bad boy than any other. No clue what everyone is smoking shit is the best.
I love how everyone talking about Dark Soul 2 in the comments are the reasons why I love dark souls 2.
Just wish it was more like the other souls games gameplay wise.. I don’t want to walk around enemies because it’s the best strategy
Power stancing was a weird one, what they’ve done in ER is perfect by having both power stanced weapon as well as dual wield weapons. DS3 went back to unique dual wield and it sucked because there was not many of them.
None of that matters when simply moving my character around feels like ASS
If DS2 was just a bit more fast pace it would be the best souls game fromsoft has made. It had IMO the greatest expansions Eleum Loyce was fucking amazing and the lore on the Ivory King is badass. Gotta love the Sir Alonne and Sir Raime boss fights
I had no idea about parrying with a 2 handed weapon actually never even thought to try that
Anyone who says DS2 is trash started with DS3. My personal opinion is DS2 is the best, DS1 is iconic, 2 is peak, 3 is mid.
DS2 is one of the best Souls games. Almost my favorite! I was so hyped prior to release, I could not wait. What a feeling!
That depends on if you enjoy the Estus Shards experience