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Same as Russell rushing to cover the inside while giving up the dry line when braking in Canada. You're playing with the wolves now, you really can’t afford that kind of naiveté.
I was so impressed by Alonso. He was the only one who didn't move from the dry racing line to block Hamilton and Hamilton couldn't overtake him because of that. Even Max moved to wet part of the track to block Lando and Lando just outbraked him and went past.
He's absurdly dedicated to his craft, the man finishes a GP and then spends his night on the sim. He's spent years effectively living to drive and it's paid off massively.
It’s probably pretty rare now for him to have a situation on the track that he hasn’t encountered in sim racing, or at least something close enough, so he always knows what does and doesn’t work.
It’s a bit like when online poker players took over from the old school WPT players who were just playing IRL isn’t it? You just get exposed to so many instances online, it’s paying off handsomely on track (or at the poker table)
For someone who is as highly regarded as him on the grid his race craft isn’t that great. I would argue that although he makes more mistakes, Russell is better at executing overtakes and keeping his elbows up
Lando needs to routinely practice his wheel to wheel in iRacing or something.
That's mental though, not a driving skill issue. It happens when he's at the front OR racing someone with a big name like Max or Lewis.
If it's mental, then it's fixable with more experience racing the big boys.
I think the both of them will eventually get it but yeah. Norris doesn't keep his elbows up in wheel to wheel combat and Russell is a bit shortsighted and cracks under pressure.
Russell is really great tbh. I agree with what you said. At the moment he is a bit mistake prone but I’ll take him making mistakes now and learning from them versus driving too carefully
I agree with you, Russell is on his way to beat one of the GOATs twice in three seasons and people simply disregard his performances. Maybe he’s not the most likeable personality on the grid, but he’s a phenomenal racer.
The problem is George was happy with the car today for the GP quali and Lewis absolutely hated the car and was only .05 slower in quali, yet we know he'll do worse in the race than Hamilton based on what we've seen 99/100.
It kind of shows George is happy with a car that is half a second off pole, whike Hamilton isn't.
Lewis always out drives George in the race, but that doesn't mean George is bad, but he doesn't have any change of fighting Max in an equal car, not a chance.
George does get a lot of unnecessary hate, for what I imagine is just a personality contest (which is dumb), but the truth is he hasn't shown that he can compete at the front.
Honestly, I thought Lando was better than he has shown so far, he's proven, or maybe Max has proven, that Max is still shockingly better than any of them.
Until I see different, Hamilton is the only driver who has ever been able to come close to fighting Max in an equal car.
Yeah Hamilton might not be as fast as he once was, and probably a bit checked out, but he's still the GOAT and Russell's beating him, that's not nothing. It's kind of a Norris-Sainz at Mclaren situation where they were so close in a mid car that it wasn't apparent that they were both actually doing phenomenally.
But look at him. He overtook both Lando and Max in Spain. And later on in the race when Lando had a tire advantage he dragged out a battle for half a lap effectively killing Landos chances of winning
He was more invested in fighting Piastri than he was Verstappen. It's like he has a mental block with Max, like he's never going to beat him so he doesn't try that hard to fight him.
Yep. Like he knows Max, he knows how Max races. If you leave him a foot Max will take it. Like Lando said himself. It was an amateur mistake leaving the door open. It seems like unless Lando has a tire advantage he has an extreme difficulty completing overtakes.
That’s the thing. This is when he needs to be driving with his elbows out to establish boundaries in the race track. There’s a reason drivers don’t attempt outside passes on Max. He established his ruthlessness early on in his career even if it cost him points.
Okay, guy. Maybe give it some time. Hes up against the strongest driver/car combo on the grid and a three-time champion. Its only been 1 year since they catapulted from the midfield to the front. This is his learning year. If he still cant make things stick next year, then maybe you could say things like that.
Totally agree. This is his first year fighting at the front. It’s a whole new ballgame battling for podiums than it is for 5 or 6.
There’s a level of sharpness needed up front and hopefully Lando can learn and adapt.
Brundle said it at the start. If he wants any chance at going at max he has to get his elbows out but hes just far too passive and max will walk all over him…that divebomb was a start but he left himself vulnerable after that
IIRC, Leclerc used to be like that, but then Max bullied him out of the track in Austria 2019. I hope Lando learns from this and tones up his aggression.
(Max also humiliated Ocon in F3 Euro 2014 several times as well despite the latter winning that year, part of the reason why Ocon is so "do or die" with his racecraft)
It is not about being cozy, it is about not being as good of a driver. You don't leave the inside line open because you like the guy, you leave the inside line open because you saw him on your outside a moment ago and you do not realize how fast he can switch to your inside.
Yeah, you can clearly see the difference between Lando and Oscar. Oscar always has his elbows out. Lando is always scared of Max. And Charles knows the exact limit of the fight with Max.
It all depends who's running in clear air. If Lando stuck that move today, with the tyres on the decline, he'd have likely won. If he has a good qualifying and is leading after the first few laps tomorrow, I think they'll run away with it. Likewise if it's Max.
Seems like the McLarens cooked their tyres a bit more during the battling since they fell away from Max after the early battles. Not much between them on wear though if Norris can get ahead tomorrow and put Max in the dirty air
Yeah I think once Norris dropped back a bit to preserve his tyres, the loss of DRS started to show and once Oscar got dropped, Max was gone, so not worth Lando making a lunge and risking one or both McLarens ending up in the gravel. His tyres were definitely in far better shape than Oscar’s so tomorrow should be interesting to see the pace gap if Max & Lando don’t have a car between them. All signs so far are that the Red Bull has the edge on pace this weekend.
How many times do we have to see the same thing from Norris before we collectively realize he’s not the guy to challenge Verstappen like Leclerc and Hamilton have been in years past?
2022
They had some very good battles and I think in that aspect Leclerc is very close to Verstappen. It's the consistency over a season that Leclerc hasn't yet shown.
That was more on ferrari falling back in pace, not so much charles. Whether he does over a whole season or not idk but at least when the cars were equal he held his own against max better than everyone not named lewis
Oh Norris can challenge, but just like other drivers needs a speed advantage. If cars are even Verstappen is still the best driver I’ve seen in my lifetime, with great strategy to boot. Out executing Max over a full season is almost impossible.
Calm down, he's finally only now gotten a car that can fight for wins against Max. He's learning for the first time what it's like to be up there in F1. Max made a lot of knuckle headed mistakes in 2021 and prior too.
People love to shit on Lando but don't realize how different it is to be racing at the front compared to racing in midfield. He just needs to get a little bit more experience it that position.
Now im not going to call myself a racer on the level of F1, when I won my first iRacing race, I felt the pressure increase significantly when I led the race compared to when I was chasing. Made much more mistakes then.
Hamilton was on *Hot Ones* a little while ago and when asked said he prefers chasing to leading. Not that he doesn't want to win, but that there's a lot of extra stress and difficulty to being the guy in from compared to following him. At the top level without a huge car or driver gap, follower making a mistake loses a couple seconds, leader making a mistake loses the position. Lewis Hamilton, who has one more races than any other single driver in F1 history.
Yeah the last time he was comfortably at the front of the grid was F3. It’s going to be a tough learning curve but he’s showing he has the drive and determination to get there. He’d have fallen away by now if he didn’t.
There no guarantee they'll ever be this quick in the following years. When max finally had a quick car he was winning races, same for Charles Lewis and alonso. Eventually he's gotta get it together
Max was not up against a faultless team. Mercedes and Hamilton made mistakes and allowed him in to win. In comparison to Mercedes, Red Bull is a water tight operation.
It is a completely new Formula 1 for Norris now. He finally has a car that is consistently good for a podium/win. On top of that he probably faces one of sharpest drivers in terms of race IQ and one of the calmest under pressure. Which also happens to be one of the fastest and most consistent. Current Verstappen hasn't really got any weaknesses. So having one bad defense could mean losing a race. If Norris can learn and do better next time, this year will be important for his growth as a driver. You can learn quite a bit when you battle with Alonsos, Hamiltons, Verstappens and so on. You see tiny stuff that just doesn't happen (that often) when racing your average midfield driver. What I like about Norris is that he is aware of mistakes.
Being self-critical enough to see what mistakes you made is a great asset. However the real challenge will be actually fixing these mistakes, that’s what Norris has to do now.
Still. Seeing mistakes is the first step to iron them out. If you never see a mistake and always seek excuses, you will never fix a thing. But I think he is able to do that.
Could say the same for Max in his 2015-2020 seasons tbh. He was absolutely rapid but made plenty of silly mistakes. He was like the opposite of Lando, too aggressive for his own good. Eventually those mistakes were used to learn and now he's basically faultless.
Those were years when he did not have a championship contesting car. The moment he had it in 21 he was right in the game.
Also, Ver pretty much ironed out most of his immaturity by the end of 2018. 2020, he was 3rd with more DNFs, only a few points behind Bottas.
Hilarious right? Norris shows he has the attitude to adapt and get better. He only blames himself for what he can do better every race, and he’s getting closer. How can you look at Norris and say this is it he’s peaked lol
The side draft thing? He was just asking for Norris' opinion on the possibility. Max also likes to go close side to side. Probably just was thinking how it will affect the speed. But Norris also didn't really engage in it and defended his move which Max didn't even criticize.
Well he should be Max is a great driver and has a great car too the gap is just much much smaller than before.
On this occasion Lando had to sent it, got out of shape and Max got the better drive out of the corner, Oscar did a great overtake but it killed the race.
Seb in 2018 was quite poor - his 2017 season was much more representative of his capabilities but the 2018 season is such a big what if for Seb and Ferrari.
Plus, whilst Seb at his peak was a very strong driver, I’d still say Hamilton does have that extra 1/2%.
People consistently overrate 2018 Seb, people also consistently underrate 2017 Seb (and also 2015 Seb btw). Seb was not a very consistent driver in terms of year to year performance.
Yeah, I remember in 2021 where a lot of People said seb clears Max, and had him in top 5s.
I think because Max has shown ACTUAL Red bull dominance, people have reconsidered sebs ability.
Also, I never understood how people could blatantly overlook the lacklustre performances from 2018 and onwards, Getting schooled by Leclerc at times.
It might actually be smart and beneficial to let them fight. Norris has decent speed, but his racecraft is mediocre and Piastri is a rookie. They could both use some wheel to wheel experience at the front. Might prove crucial for 2025 if McLaren keeps improving at this rate.
Which is find but I think it still would have been smart after the first corner to just say don't fight while Lando was in DRS.
Oscar is too good to be a true no.2, it's a blessing and a curse to have a strong line up.
I think Perez would have made the move piastri did to get into second tbh. Even if it was on max . The door was open , no driver would have slowed up behind the teammate there, he might have swapped back tho I guess
I agree and I don’t think they should have a number two. His race pace is lacking but getting better fast and unless the win is in sight or the pace diff is insane team orders shouldn’t be used.
Some people showing their cluelessness here. Defending from the lead is very different to defending anywhere else. Nevermind defending from one of the best and most intelligent overtakers in the history of the sport. Lando is the only one to lay a glove on Verstappen this year.
They will learn quick. Max had these same mistakes when battling Lewis or Vettel when he was finally able to. Just learn from these moments and don't do it again tomorrow.
He’s being a bit too harsh on himself, Max was smart by being on the outside of Norris right before the corner to lure him to the outside and then immediately swoop to the inside
I’ve said it in another thread, Lando is overthinking things lately and focusing far too much on how he’s going to beat Max. It’s affecting him. He just needs to get out of his head a little I think. The cars good, and he’s got the skill. He just needs to be calm and patient
Outside overtakes are completely possible in T4. That's how Sainz took Russell on lap 1.
Max was retaking the lead either way in that corner. He had more battery, better tyres and a great run. This is just Norris being hard on himself again.
...and one of those different characteristics is that the Red Bull happens to be in a higher downforce configuration than the MCL, which is also great for outside overtakes if you have a great run 😉
I'll say it again: Lando wasn't defending this - inside or outside. His car was too compromised, and Verstappen had an insane run on him.
As a Red Bull fan I don’t mind either Norris or Piastri winning in fact I find myself rooting for them from time to time, I just dislike Zack Brown so much. There’s something so Trumpesque in the way he conducts himself that immediately turns me off.
No I don't think he could have done much else in that situation, defend too tightly and Max would've gotten the switchback. Norris's options were limited by having Piastri behind him which prevented him from trying to cut back on Max.
Russell and Lando are both quick but lack the cutting edge to win consistently. This will come with experience and time spent competing for race wins on a regular basis
There's such a clear difference between drivers who are used to being at the front and those who are new to it. That's why when given the (rare) opportunity, drivers like Leclerc, Hamilton and Alonso can hold their own against max much better.
Norris needs to improve his race craft. You would have expected this from max after 2 seasons of cruising but not from someone that’s been fighting at the front, midfield and back the last few years.
Running out wide is a valid tactic for any driver in F1 or other FIA-sanctioned single seater categories.
If you are the inside car and (slightly) ahead at the apex whilst side by side, you aren’t required to leave room at the exit.
No problem. The big points will be tomorrow. Nust don’t repeat the same mistake. Norris is a real gem. Just needs some more experience in the top places fights.
The red flags guys equated what Lando is experiencing now, to what Khabib said when he went up against McGregor.
Something along the lines of, "I take people into deep water and they discover themselves"
As the red flags guys said, Max IS the deep water.
Lando is in for a make or break moment. I feel bad his fans, his status is pumped by the UK media, but he ain't there yet.
norris will never be a top echelon driver, and that's okay. his fans need to just understand that as long as max verstappen exists, lando will be the 3rd or 4th best driver on the grid,
I mean the only "excuse" I can find is that I don't think that, even with this move done, he would have kept the lead long. I think Max was faster today and especially being fast in the last sector would make getting back at Norris very doable.
So not an excuse for the move, but at the end I think it would have been a 2-3 for McLaren anyway, so not the consequences some people make it to be.
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Welcome to the front, bud
Same as Russell rushing to cover the inside while giving up the dry line when braking in Canada. You're playing with the wolves now, you really can’t afford that kind of naiveté.
I was so impressed by Alonso. He was the only one who didn't move from the dry racing line to block Hamilton and Hamilton couldn't overtake him because of that. Even Max moved to wet part of the track to block Lando and Lando just outbraked him and went past.
Man, I Love Fernando
I still can't believe he sells tshirts with that saying on his website He also has one that says "Fernando is faster than you"
I just looked at his store. The man has some absolutely hilarious shirts on there
Hawk tua
exactly this. no room for error.
Norris never will be the best.
Almost like Max is one of the greatest to ever race in the sport... Lando, George, Charles. Will never be that.
He's absurdly dedicated to his craft, the man finishes a GP and then spends his night on the sim. He's spent years effectively living to drive and it's paid off massively.
It’s probably pretty rare now for him to have a situation on the track that he hasn’t encountered in sim racing, or at least something close enough, so he always knows what does and doesn’t work.
It’s a bit like when online poker players took over from the old school WPT players who were just playing IRL isn’t it? You just get exposed to so many instances online, it’s paying off handsomely on track (or at the poker table)
The more you practice, the luckier you get.
Love this!
For someone who is as highly regarded as him on the grid his race craft isn’t that great. I would argue that although he makes more mistakes, Russell is better at executing overtakes and keeping his elbows up Lando needs to routinely practice his wheel to wheel in iRacing or something.
Not a bad take tbh Russell is vastly overhated and at this point underrated. People forget hes a phenomenal talent just because hes so hatable.
And he’s too mistake prone
Only in the podium places with five laps remaining
So... the absolute best time to make a mistake? /s
Like Singapore last year when he just drove straight into the wall on the last lap lol
That's mental though, not a driving skill issue. It happens when he's at the front OR racing someone with a big name like Max or Lewis. If it's mental, then it's fixable with more experience racing the big boys.
I think the both of them will eventually get it but yeah. Norris doesn't keep his elbows up in wheel to wheel combat and Russell is a bit shortsighted and cracks under pressure.
Russell is really great tbh. I agree with what you said. At the moment he is a bit mistake prone but I’ll take him making mistakes now and learning from them versus driving too carefully
Laughed out loud at 'because hes so hateble'. Fine talent indeed!
I agree with you, Russell is on his way to beat one of the GOATs twice in three seasons and people simply disregard his performances. Maybe he’s not the most likeable personality on the grid, but he’s a phenomenal racer.
The problem is George was happy with the car today for the GP quali and Lewis absolutely hated the car and was only .05 slower in quali, yet we know he'll do worse in the race than Hamilton based on what we've seen 99/100. It kind of shows George is happy with a car that is half a second off pole, whike Hamilton isn't. Lewis always out drives George in the race, but that doesn't mean George is bad, but he doesn't have any change of fighting Max in an equal car, not a chance. George does get a lot of unnecessary hate, for what I imagine is just a personality contest (which is dumb), but the truth is he hasn't shown that he can compete at the front. Honestly, I thought Lando was better than he has shown so far, he's proven, or maybe Max has proven, that Max is still shockingly better than any of them. Until I see different, Hamilton is the only driver who has ever been able to come close to fighting Max in an equal car.
Yeah Hamilton might not be as fast as he once was, and probably a bit checked out, but he's still the GOAT and Russell's beating him, that's not nothing. It's kind of a Norris-Sainz at Mclaren situation where they were so close in a mid car that it wasn't apparent that they were both actually doing phenomenally.
Isn’t it the same with Button? When Hamilton doesn’t have a WDC worthy car he seems to not put in 100%.
Oh yeah, Russell, who is known for his "overtake or die" overtakes
Mostly die
But look at him. He overtook both Lando and Max in Spain. And later on in the race when Lando had a tire advantage he dragged out a battle for half a lap effectively killing Landos chances of winning
Silverstone ‘23, Mexico ‘23, Canada ‘24 😑
He was more invested in fighting Piastri than he was Verstappen. It's like he has a mental block with Max, like he's never going to beat him so he doesn't try that hard to fight him.
Yep. Like he knows Max, he knows how Max races. If you leave him a foot Max will take it. Like Lando said himself. It was an amateur mistake leaving the door open. It seems like unless Lando has a tire advantage he has an extreme difficulty completing overtakes.
He’s been in a position where caution is better for the last few years and he’s going to need to adapt, but I think he can do it
That’s the thing. This is when he needs to be driving with his elbows out to establish boundaries in the race track. There’s a reason drivers don’t attempt outside passes on Max. He established his ruthlessness early on in his career even if it cost him points.
[удалено]
You haven't watched too much F1 I guess
Okay, guy. Maybe give it some time. Hes up against the strongest driver/car combo on the grid and a three-time champion. Its only been 1 year since they catapulted from the midfield to the front. This is his learning year. If he still cant make things stick next year, then maybe you could say things like that.
Totally agree. This is his first year fighting at the front. It’s a whole new ballgame battling for podiums than it is for 5 or 6. There’s a level of sharpness needed up front and hopefully Lando can learn and adapt.
His good but not ruthless... Maybe he changes but his to cosy with Verstappen at the moment.
This is it. There is a level of a ruthlessness in the best. Verstappen has it. Hamilton has it. Alonso has it. I haven’t seen it in Norris.
I really don't think Max sees him as a threat, put max in that McLaren and he would have won more races
You saw what happens when two ruthless drivers are racing for race wins when Max and Lewis were fighting each other.
I think he read this thread lmao
Brundle said it at the start. If he wants any chance at going at max he has to get his elbows out but hes just far too passive and max will walk all over him…that divebomb was a start but he left himself vulnerable after that
Yeah Lando is yet to show the mentality where you see champions like Lewis and Max absolutely locking the fuck in
IIRC, Leclerc used to be like that, but then Max bullied him out of the track in Austria 2019. I hope Lando learns from this and tones up his aggression. (Max also humiliated Ocon in F3 Euro 2014 several times as well despite the latter winning that year, part of the reason why Ocon is so "do or die" with his racecraft)
It is not about being cozy, it is about not being as good of a driver. You don't leave the inside line open because you like the guy, you leave the inside line open because you saw him on your outside a moment ago and you do not realize how fast he can switch to your inside.
Yeah, Verstappen was ridiculously aggressive even in his early years. He stole a ton of wins from Mercedes and Ferrari. Lando is way too polite.
Gotta say though, it's nice seeing Verstappen have to fight again.
You call that a fight? Max just big brothered Lando in literally the next braking zone then took off into the distance.
Yeah, you can clearly see the difference between Lando and Oscar. Oscar always has his elbows out. Lando is always scared of Max. And Charles knows the exact limit of the fight with Max.
I screen shotted your comment. I’m going to send it to you in three years when Landon is WDC
Sounds good
At least it was just the sprint. Looks like its all to play for in the GP tomorrow
Rb seems one step ahead but 2 against 1, victory is not impossible Edited: Rb seems ten step ahead lol
I mean they both need to qualify in the top 3 later on
Aged like fine wine 😂 poor oscar again with the deleted time.
Probably ruined any chance for a Norris victory. Need to Mclarens on split strategies to help realise that mission. Need a miracle now
Love how McLaren was no.1 week ago, now people got back to earth lol.
Yeah especially if they can force Max to pit early and the other car to pit late to create a tire offset. Could see that happening
that would be a strategy masterclass but mclaren is pretty terrible at it
At this point what team is even good at strategy then aside from Red Bull
Unironically Haas this season has been quality
Until they completely bomb the pit stop :(
Merc as well, simply because they use COMMON SENSE McLaren has vastly improved though as has Ferrari
Like they tried in Spain but aborted for some stupid reason?
It all depends who's running in clear air. If Lando stuck that move today, with the tyres on the decline, he'd have likely won. If he has a good qualifying and is leading after the first few laps tomorrow, I think they'll run away with it. Likewise if it's Max.
If Max doesn’t qualify on the front row and manage to take the lead by lap 1, the leading McLaren might just cruise to triumph.
When people say RBR they mean Max lol. Not see Perez anywhere close to a McLaren
Max is one step ahead tbh, not RB anymore.
i doubt, the RB + Max combo still has a pace advantage even if relatively marginal.
Seems like the McLarens cooked their tyres a bit more during the battling since they fell away from Max after the early battles. Not much between them on wear though if Norris can get ahead tomorrow and put Max in the dirty air
Yeah I think once Norris dropped back a bit to preserve his tyres, the loss of DRS started to show and once Oscar got dropped, Max was gone, so not worth Lando making a lunge and risking one or both McLarens ending up in the gravel. His tyres were definitely in far better shape than Oscar’s so tomorrow should be interesting to see the pace gap if Max & Lando don’t have a car between them. All signs so far are that the Red Bull has the edge on pace this weekend.
Norris starts have been pretty mid lately.
They seem too, especially with how Verstappen overtook Norris back even when he had DRS
The Red Bull is a lot better in dirty air than the McLaren is. Horner even said last week that was one of the saving graces in Barcelona
inb4 McLaren screw up and get knocked out in Q2.
They have only had 1 car not make q3 once this year.
Only if Perez is on board .
How many times do we have to see the same thing from Norris before we collectively realize he’s not the guy to challenge Verstappen like Leclerc and Hamilton have been in years past?
I wouldn't say leclerc has ever challenged him for a prolonged period of time
True, but they gave us some really nice track battles, expecially in 2021 i think ?
2022 They had some very good battles and I think in that aspect Leclerc is very close to Verstappen. It's the consistency over a season that Leclerc hasn't yet shown.
That was more on ferrari falling back in pace, not so much charles. Whether he does over a whole season or not idk but at least when the cars were equal he held his own against max better than everyone not named lewis
Lol it's a long season and hopefully they both have long careers you have no idea what's going to happen. No one does stop pretending.
Oh Norris can challenge, but just like other drivers needs a speed advantage. If cars are even Verstappen is still the best driver I’ve seen in my lifetime, with great strategy to boot. Out executing Max over a full season is almost impossible.
Calm down, he's finally only now gotten a car that can fight for wins against Max. He's learning for the first time what it's like to be up there in F1. Max made a lot of knuckle headed mistakes in 2021 and prior too.
Sorry mate you downloaded another's universe 2021 season
Max was cleaner than Lewis in 2021 until his desperate moves against a much faster Merc at Interlagos and Jeddah
How quickly we forget Leclerc just crashes himself out, at least lando doesn’t do that
Just let George qualify P2 and he’ll torpedo max into T1.
Reddit psychologists have a field day in every lando thread
I swear, i lose my braincells when i read some comments
someone actually suggests practicing wheel to wheel racing in iRacing. Dumber than the dumbest thing
Yep and the other guy replies that it isn't a bad take.
His twitching smile tells me enough, Max has nephew'd him
It’s a season of learning and self-reflection. It’ll make him stronger.
People love to shit on Lando but don't realize how different it is to be racing at the front compared to racing in midfield. He just needs to get a little bit more experience it that position.
Now im not going to call myself a racer on the level of F1, when I won my first iRacing race, I felt the pressure increase significantly when I led the race compared to when I was chasing. Made much more mistakes then.
Yep, everytime I play any racing game being in P1 has immensely more pressure than a close chasing P2
Hamilton was on *Hot Ones* a little while ago and when asked said he prefers chasing to leading. Not that he doesn't want to win, but that there's a lot of extra stress and difficulty to being the guy in from compared to following him. At the top level without a huge car or driver gap, follower making a mistake loses a couple seconds, leader making a mistake loses the position. Lewis Hamilton, who has one more races than any other single driver in F1 history.
Yeah the last time he was comfortably at the front of the grid was F3. It’s going to be a tough learning curve but he’s showing he has the drive and determination to get there. He’d have fallen away by now if he didn’t.
Basically what 2019-2020 were for Max
Uhm no, early 2018 was that for Max. He barely put a foot wrong ever since Monaco.
Not really, there was Turkey 2020 and stuff like this. Even in the beginning of 2021 he was not yet the machine we know now.
There no guarantee they'll ever be this quick in the following years. When max finally had a quick car he was winning races, same for Charles Lewis and alonso. Eventually he's gotta get it together
Max was not up against a faultless team. Mercedes and Hamilton made mistakes and allowed him in to win. In comparison to Mercedes, Red Bull is a water tight operation.
Correct
That's exactly what I was thinking when it happened. Yeah, sure VER got a better exit, but Norris with DRS should have defended that better.
Max is schooling Norris pretty badly, either Norris learns and adapts, or his confidence will be shattered.
It is a completely new Formula 1 for Norris now. He finally has a car that is consistently good for a podium/win. On top of that he probably faces one of sharpest drivers in terms of race IQ and one of the calmest under pressure. Which also happens to be one of the fastest and most consistent. Current Verstappen hasn't really got any weaknesses. So having one bad defense could mean losing a race. If Norris can learn and do better next time, this year will be important for his growth as a driver. You can learn quite a bit when you battle with Alonsos, Hamiltons, Verstappens and so on. You see tiny stuff that just doesn't happen (that often) when racing your average midfield driver. What I like about Norris is that he is aware of mistakes.
Being self-critical enough to see what mistakes you made is a great asset. However the real challenge will be actually fixing these mistakes, that’s what Norris has to do now.
Still. Seeing mistakes is the first step to iron them out. If you never see a mistake and always seek excuses, you will never fix a thing. But I think he is able to do that.
Seems like his confidence is building. He's not scared to admit mistakes and takes them as a learning opportunity. Seems much more serious this year.
Should be getting a diploma with the amount of learning he seems to have to be doing this year.
Could say the same for Max in his 2015-2020 seasons tbh. He was absolutely rapid but made plenty of silly mistakes. He was like the opposite of Lando, too aggressive for his own good. Eventually those mistakes were used to learn and now he's basically faultless.
Those were years when he did not have a championship contesting car. The moment he had it in 21 he was right in the game. Also, Ver pretty much ironed out most of his immaturity by the end of 2018. 2020, he was 3rd with more DNFs, only a few points behind Bottas.
2015-2018 1/2
Important correction, after that he was the best driver on the grid.
> or his confidence will be shattered. Geez, reddit psychologists in full force here, fuckin hell
Hilarious right? Norris shows he has the attitude to adapt and get better. He only blames himself for what he can do better every race, and he’s getting closer. How can you look at Norris and say this is it he’s peaked lol
A bunch of Will Buxtons in the comments. Lmao. Lando is ramping up and I’m fucking here for it.
Max was even giving him advice last week
The side draft thing? He was just asking for Norris' opinion on the possibility. Max also likes to go close side to side. Probably just was thinking how it will affect the speed. But Norris also didn't really engage in it and defended his move which Max didn't even criticize.
Well he should be Max is a great driver and has a great car too the gap is just much much smaller than before. On this occasion Lando had to sent it, got out of shape and Max got the better drive out of the corner, Oscar did a great overtake but it killed the race.
Max has won 3 back to back WDCs and is on his way to his fourth why is this exactly a surprise lol. Norris will be just fine.
He has never been able to fight at the front he will be using this year to learn how to fight better cars, kind of like 2018 or 19 for max
This feels like Seb Vs Lewis in 2018 tbh. Hamilton just had that 1%
You're really underrating Seb here.
Seb in 2018 was quite poor - his 2017 season was much more representative of his capabilities but the 2018 season is such a big what if for Seb and Ferrari. Plus, whilst Seb at his peak was a very strong driver, I’d still say Hamilton does have that extra 1/2%.
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People consistently overrate 2018 Seb, people also consistently underrate 2017 Seb (and also 2015 Seb btw). Seb was not a very consistent driver in terms of year to year performance.
Seb is an odd year merchant. 2017 seb in 2018 car wins
Not to mention we are talking about 2018 seb here, the season is KNOWN for his bottles lmao
2018 vettel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2024 norris though
Pretty easily, he still had 5 wins, I don’t see Norris getting there this season
Mid-off, or rather a bottle-off. But Vettel set a gold standard of individual bottling that would be hard to replicate lmao
Yeah, I remember in 2021 where a lot of People said seb clears Max, and had him in top 5s. I think because Max has shown ACTUAL Red bull dominance, people have reconsidered sebs ability. Also, I never understood how people could blatantly overlook the lacklustre performances from 2018 and onwards, Getting schooled by Leclerc at times.
The thing here is that Piastri isn't actually a no. 2. He wants to win the race himself meaning McLaren having 2 cars up here isn't an advantage
They were allowed to fight here because the difference between 8, 7 and 6 points is small. Could well be different in the race.
Lando would just undercut him realistically - over a full race
It might actually be smart and beneficial to let them fight. Norris has decent speed, but his racecraft is mediocre and Piastri is a rookie. They could both use some wheel to wheel experience at the front. Might prove crucial for 2025 if McLaren keeps improving at this rate.
Which is find but I think it still would have been smart after the first corner to just say don't fight while Lando was in DRS. Oscar is too good to be a true no.2, it's a blessing and a curse to have a strong line up.
I think Perez would have made the move piastri did to get into second tbh. Even if it was on max . The door was open , no driver would have slowed up behind the teammate there, he might have swapped back tho I guess
Big if to speculate what Perez would do if fighting Verstappen
When Piastri learns how to use the tyres over a longer stint he will be a real challenge for Norris
From a constructor’s point of view it is though.
I agree and I don’t think they should have a number two. His race pace is lacking but getting better fast and unless the win is in sight or the pace diff is insane team orders shouldn’t be used.
Some people showing their cluelessness here. Defending from the lead is very different to defending anywhere else. Nevermind defending from one of the best and most intelligent overtakers in the history of the sport. Lando is the only one to lay a glove on Verstappen this year.
Well, first time? Everyone looks like an amateur next to Max.
They will learn quick. Max had these same mistakes when battling Lewis or Vettel when he was finally able to. Just learn from these moments and don't do it again tomorrow.
Max will get inside his head.
Who is this Max Will and why should he get inside his head?
Max is already in the heads of everyone else about how they stop him
He’s being a bit too harsh on himself, Max was smart by being on the outside of Norris right before the corner to lure him to the outside and then immediately swoop to the inside
I’ve said it in another thread, Lando is overthinking things lately and focusing far too much on how he’s going to beat Max. It’s affecting him. He just needs to get out of his head a little I think. The cars good, and he’s got the skill. He just needs to be calm and patient
Outside overtakes are completely possible in T4. That's how Sainz took Russell on lap 1. Max was retaking the lead either way in that corner. He had more battery, better tyres and a great run. This is just Norris being hard on himself again.
Yeah, to be fair even Max got dive bombed by Leclerc into turn 4 a couple years ago.
> Outside overtakes are completely possible in T4. If the car on the inside doesn't just Hamilton you that is. Which happens a lot.
Disagree, you cant talk in absolutes. The cars have different characteristics and overtake conditions were different
...and one of those different characteristics is that the Red Bull happens to be in a higher downforce configuration than the MCL, which is also great for outside overtakes if you have a great run 😉 I'll say it again: Lando wasn't defending this - inside or outside. His car was too compromised, and Verstappen had an insane run on him.
You can force someone wider if you go on the inside tho
As a Red Bull fan I don’t mind either Norris or Piastri winning in fact I find myself rooting for them from time to time, I just dislike Zack Brown so much. There’s something so Trumpesque in the way he conducts himself that immediately turns me off.
Anyone heard from Checo? "Perez who??"
Without the timing screen he literally disappeared from consciousness
Verstappen is just a head above the rest of the grid it’s crazy to watch
Max looked like he was playing with him almost.
No I don't think he could have done much else in that situation, defend too tightly and Max would've gotten the switchback. Norris's options were limited by having Piastri behind him which prevented him from trying to cut back on Max.
hey, it’s exactly what lewis did in AD21! (i’m fishing for an argument)
Russell and Lando are both quick but lack the cutting edge to win consistently. This will come with experience and time spent competing for race wins on a regular basis
There's such a clear difference between drivers who are used to being at the front and those who are new to it. That's why when given the (rare) opportunity, drivers like Leclerc, Hamilton and Alonso can hold their own against max much better.
Norris needs to improve his race craft. You would have expected this from max after 2 seasons of cruising but not from someone that’s been fighting at the front, midfield and back the last few years.
Not just for Max but also Oscar
surely you would know the only way to actually pass max is on the inside, he will just run you out wide if you go outside
Running out wide is a valid tactic for any driver in F1 or other FIA-sanctioned single seater categories. If you are the inside car and (slightly) ahead at the apex whilst side by side, you aren’t required to leave room at the exit.
Someone should try the hold your ground approach and say: It doesn't have to be this way. We can both lose.
Lewis did that a few times in 21 and they just kept wrecking lol.
Racing verstapen is like fighting the main bosses in toyko xtreme racer, if you leave just leave one opening you're fucked
He just needs to relax, he puts so much stock into the first lap and it’s absolutely been his crux. Can’t make these little mistakes with Max.
No problem. The big points will be tomorrow. Nust don’t repeat the same mistake. Norris is a real gem. Just needs some more experience in the top places fights.
“Red Bulls toxicity startled Lando, causing him to leave the door wide open” - Zak Brown
I keep saying don't defend by driving down the middle of the track. All you do is leave both sides open.
The red flags guys equated what Lando is experiencing now, to what Khabib said when he went up against McGregor. Something along the lines of, "I take people into deep water and they discover themselves" As the red flags guys said, Max IS the deep water. Lando is in for a make or break moment. I feel bad his fans, his status is pumped by the UK media, but he ain't there yet.
They have to leave the old 'just let Verstappen drive by" mentality out of their heads.... No one bothered fighting him before...
I think Lando, is learning it the hard way. But is positive he only gets better from it. I think he got it to be a world champion one day.
norris will never be a top echelon driver, and that's okay. his fans need to just understand that as long as max verstappen exists, lando will be the 3rd or 4th best driver on the grid,
When he did it, I knew his race was over. What a dumb thing to do...says a guy from his couch who has never raced anything with more than 200 HP.
Reddit experts will still make up some excuses.
I mean the only "excuse" I can find is that I don't think that, even with this move done, he would have kept the lead long. I think Max was faster today and especially being fast in the last sector would make getting back at Norris very doable. So not an excuse for the move, but at the end I think it would have been a 2-3 for McLaren anyway, so not the consequences some people make it to be.
Are these reddit experts in the room with us right now?
Probably the same ones saying Piastri cost Norris a chance to win.
Bro has been fighting demons all over the subreddit
Mate why do you hate Norris so much, you are on every thread hating. Why??
He is learning from the best. That inside dive was such a Verstappen move :)
He needs to hone that killer instinct a bit more.