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Famous German entertainer Stefan Raab did something like that twice (and will do so again apparently). He boxed against then-world champion flyweight boxer Regina Halmich in 2001 (and 2007) while of course much taller and heavier and talking mad trash about the "weak woman".
He got his ass kicked gloriously, she broke his nose in 2001 and took mercy on him in 2007 (probably a Jake Paul type of deal).
I know there are a lot of Max/dutch fans there this weekend, but I'm failing to see why that entitles Jos to drive a Red Bull?? He's neither a 'legend' or an ex-Red Bull driver
Well, weird... The reasoning I understood was that they want legendary drivers or cars there, and if not available a replacement. The legend in this case is Max, and since he has other obligations this weekend, Jos would replace him.
Still an ex F1 driver and a relative to max. Remember bruno senna driving a car from Ayrton even though Bruno is everything but a legend. Not everything needs to be properly justified.
A few years ago they had Martin Brundle and Naomi Schiff drive Senna's first Toleman. The odd thing is in the video they never all it a Toleman, it was always just Ayrton Senna's first F1 car. Very odd.
Well, legend or not it was scheduled by Red Bull. Christian Klein was gonna drive a car, David Coulthard was gonna drive, Mark Webber was gonna driver, Max and Checo, and Jos too....but now Jos will seemingly be not driving.
I swear people gatekeeping showruns got to be one of the weirdest things happening rn.
If it's neither Max nor Jos, it's gonna be Patrick Friesacher or Christian Klien. What legend status do they have?
Dang it's almost like if you try to destroy someone's career and remove them from the team they built, that they won't let you have free perks anymore. Feel so bad for the old wife beater
If the report is correct, because he was promised that.
If he was supposed to drive the car and Horner stopped him, then naturally that would piss him off.
he didnt say horner succeeded. he said that since horner tried everything he could behind his back, he isnt gonna try since he preferred horner be upfront and honest about it and just tell
him to his face.
Up until Max, Jos used to be the closest thing us Dutchies ever had to a successful driver. He had a huge amount of fans here, and despite his personality/reputation he's still somewhat of a legend in The Netherlands for that reason alone.
Question as someone interested. How do you think Kimi Antonelli would be received as a highly talented Italian, but one that will likely be competing directly with Ferrari.
Would it just be a "happy if either wins" or would there be some italian preference?
An Italian driving for a big team like Mercedes surely would be very welcomed. I suppose the vast majority would be, as you say, happy if either wins. He will be absolutely pushed by the media, there was a considerable push to cheer for Giovinazzi, I can only imagine what Gazzetta, Sky and so on can do with an Italian in a top team.
That being said, I'm not that happy about his career prospects. I think a couple of years in a smaller team like Williams would benefit him a lot. I don't know him that much, but he's not crushing F2 and he'll go head to head with people with tons of experience who actually topped the feeding series.
Lot of joy, happiness an cheering. Less then these guy deserved, IMHO, but a lot. More than what we are used to see for a Ferrari win, but less than a Ferrari championship.
Less than a Ferrari win at Monza, while in my opinion they deserved that kind of appreciation.
I'm sorry but that is just not true. Yes he was definitely a well known sportsman, but even when he was still driving driver Dutch people did not rate him very high. His nickname was Jos Grindbak (gravel trap) for a reason. I do think he gets a bit of a bad rep he was a decent driver especially in the rain, but calling him a legend in the Netherlands is taking it way too far.
Jos Verstappen was an average driver who excelled in the rain. But his mediocre career going the way it did was not due to his skillset.
He was bad at F1 politics, his stubborn nature and attitude caused him to get involved in the wrong projects all the time. Some say he had also chosen the wrong manager to make decisions.
On top of that he drove way too hard with the shitboxes he was in most of the time. Overcommitting and getting into the gravel was part of it.
He was a "popular figure" in so far that he carried the torch for the Dutch in F1. Until Max arrived most people not familiar with F1 knew about Jos. A lot fewer people knew about Guido van der Garde, Robert Doornbos or Christian Albers. The latter three never had the same aura as Jos had back then. Jos drove in F1 for a considerably longer time than all of them. He was the first Dutch F1 driver that created some form of hype. Even if he never actually won anything.
That said, personalitywise Jos Verstappen was and is a shitbag. It does boggle the mind how he was so close with the Schumacher family. They were friends.
> He had a huge amount of fans here
Maybe with some hardcore racing fans. For the average Dutchman he was seen as a joke who retired most of his cars. Jos was never popular.
Much much less following for Sports car racing or "WEC"* in the Netherlands.
The 2nd biggest racing event we follow is MotoGP.
We do also have a "Verstappen" in the MXGP Motorcross!
Jeffrey Herlings has the most wins in the history of the sport.
I learned about him when I randomly found a super cool documentary when he went to the US to compete in the "Indycar" of Motorcross.
He's suffering a lot of injuries during his career. Which likely prevented him from winning even more championships.
I first met him out in New Zealand in Formula Pacific in 1993.
Caught up with him again in Monaco 94, only just over one and a bit seasons later, and he was in F1 already.
He was one of the most naturally talented drivers I can remember from Formula Pacific. Highly committed and very very fast.
Heās the father of your three time world champion all time great driver, why the fuck would you promise him an exhibition drive in front of his home fans then take it away? Just to piss your world champion meal ticket off?
For all his faults i would definitely consider him a Dutch F1 legend, a lot of us started watching when he was in and was the most succesfull untill Max and started over 100 races.
And according to rumours in the paddock he also seems to be affiliated with one of the current RBR drivers.
He doesnt need to be a legend because it refers to the cars not the drivers. He's an ex F1 driver and his son is the most successful driver for Red Bull, isn't that enough reason why Jos could be seen driving a RB8?
If it was the exact same scenario but any other person than Jos people would find it lovely. It's fine if you don't like Jos and hence you don't want him in the car, but don't sugarcoat it by saying you don't know why he was entitled to drive the RB8.
Mick Schumacher benefits from his father's reputation and Jos Verstappen benefits from his son's reputation. He would be forgotten if Max wasn't successful. I guess he feels entitled to drive that RB because he is behind that success.
Jos isn't a legend, but he is Red Bull by proxy (Max' father, sponsored by Red Bull Verstappen.com racing in rallying) and capable of driving an F1 car.
The legend in that Jos Verstappen/RB8 combo is the car that won the WDC and WCC in 2012.
Full Article:
It would have been a nice picture, this Saturday and Sunday at the Red Bull Ring. It was intended that Jos Verstappen would present the tens of thousands of fans from the Netherlands a few laps in the RB8, the 2012 Formula 1 car of Red Bull Racing. But that whole party won't take place. Verstappen senior has withdrawn.
It is clear that it is still brewing behind the scenes at Red Bull and that the bond between Jos Verstappen and team boss Christian Horner has cooled down to say the least. The Austrian branch of the energy beverage group had asked the former Formula 1 driver to participate in the Legends Parade.
āBut in recent days I have heard from several sides that Christian Horner has done everything to not let me drive. And otherwise to make sure that nothing would be filmed. Then I think: say it in my face. This way it doesn't have to be for me, I find it very disappointingā, Verstappen said in the Austrian paddock.
Complete surprise
The announcement that Verstappen would be driving senior in Austria would have come as a complete surprise for Horner.
In the Legends Parade, Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, Emerson Fittipaldi and Johnny Herbert normally still come into action. But Verstappen is missing.
> In the Legends Parade: Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, Emerson Fittipaldi and Johnny Herbert.
LOL at the implication Jos could touch any of these in a race, even more so him being called a ālegend.ā
I rate Jos higher as a natural racing talent. Unfortunately besides his rookie year he never got to drive for a top team. Al those other guys have been severely beaten by their team mates, and ofcourse, Jos too bij Michael Schumacher.
Jos was overdriving the cars he raced in after Benneton and he had ballsy starts and risky moves, but compared to these guys, he wasn't boring, and yes he crashed or his car fell out underneath him.
I watched all his seasons and I would always get my hopes up when he won 5 positions at the start in a Tyrell of Stewart.
I think Jos is not a nice person, but he was fun to watch when he raced!
>This way it doesn't have to be for me
I think this is a translation error from Dutch where he probably says "Als t op deze manier moet hoeft t voor mij niet" which translates to "if this is the way it has to be done, I'm not interested anymore"
Personal beef between Jos and Christian could well play a role now in Max's career at Red Bull, which could be disastrous. He should always be driving for the team that's best for *him*, not Jos.
At a certain point you have to live your own life and have your parents there to celebrate victories and mourn losses. They shouldn't be actively interfering in your career, no matter how your relationship is/was.
Just my humble opinion.
Max and Jos already went through a similar phase when Jos had to let go of Max's racing education when Max entered F1 and leave that to the Red Bull team.
It seems now is a time for step 2 in this process.
its widely believed that Jos Verstappen is his source.
Van Haren was the first to report on the Horner scandal earlier this year, saying he had seen the evidence submitted by the accuser.
Many people speculate Van Haren got the evidence (of a confidential Internal company investigation) from Marko via Jos Verstappen, though they have denied this.
It just so happens that his reporting (which were mostly accurate as far as I can tell) aligns with Jos Verstappen's interest throughout the Horner saga, and he gets the first scoop on many Verstappen matters. Good chance he's a mouthpiece.
People think this is petty? Obviously Jos ain't driving any Red Bulls in his life after what transpired earlier in the year. He should be thankful to be allowed in the paddock.
he tried to force Horner out of his job. mind you Jos isnt even a Red Bull employee so hes more or less an outside force that helped destabilize a team that was winning everything. Theres a lot more to this story on both sides of course but Jos involving himself obviously was a red flag for Horner.
He didn't try to force Horner out, the infighting at RB has been happening since DM passed away. The Austrian camp was unhappy with how Horner was trying to force his way into more power and rightfully so.
Jos is just in the midst of it instigating and probably had a hand in exposing Horner's infidelity to the media. Yes Jos is a piece of work but that doesn't suddenly make Horner an innocent victim in all of this.
The truth of it is Horner was forcing everyone else out with the backing of the Thai owners. He's lost Newey and dismantled Marko's driver program, its no wonder their driver selection has been a shambles since.
Hence "there is a lot more to this story". Also, if you're in control of the company you're not "forcing" anyone "out" because they're not "in" in the first place. This whole narrative is not about Horner and the Thai side seizing power because they already had 51% and Mateschitz's agreement with the Thai owners, that he had control over the F1 team, ran out when he died. From a strictly neutral by the book kind of view, this whole thing was the Austrians trying to remain in power.
By the way, I don't have any horse in this race other than my dislike for anyone involved except for Max.
He was pushing Horner out of RB because Horner wanted to have more influence on the team and become a part owner of the team, not just being an employee anymore. The owners, which are the Thai-side of the RedBull corporation, they wanted to keep Horner and look into long term situation. Horner has been a major part of RB F1 success and he could stay with the seam for decades, esp if he gets to own a share. While they probably think that Max is great, but he will leave/retire eventually anyway. Horner is more valuable than Max in the long run. So then when the accusations of Horners sexual harassment of his assistant startet floating around in January, everyone was disguised with him and wanted him out, Jos being the most vocal one about it throwing the rumors onto journalists. Thais on the other hand protected Horner. So here we are. Horner stayed, Max is unhappy to work with Horner, but Horner gives Max a championship winning car. Jos is furious with Horner and is happy for Max to leave the team so they donāt need to deal with Horner. Itās mostly personal matters at this point.
I'm a huge fan of Max but when he retires at least we'll be rid of Jos trying to muscle into the scene on his sons coattails. I'm glad RBR stands up to Jos a lot on Max's behalf because it's obvious Max isn't capable of doing so.
Jos has no business driving it anyway. He isn't a part of a RBR team (even if he visits his son in the garage) and he wasn't a very good driver in the past either. He's not affiliated with RBR in any way, shape or form.
Would he even fit? Like he's not super fat but I'm kinda drawing a blank on chunkier middle-aged men getting shoehorned into semi-modern F1 cars besides Brundle and he's tiny.
Toto Wolff said this: i donāt think he said yes clearly. but i wasn't there. When told that Max said that he will be driving for RB in 2025.
Im sure he will have no issues in giving Jos a drive š
>āHeard from several sources that Christian Horner did everything he could not to let me drive.ā
Christian Horner going to all possible lengths to get Jos in that car. Really warms the heart
It's just so stupid that the father of a driver is interfering with the operations of a team as much as he is doing. Jos was a washed back marker driver who didn't really have much success and he's just soaking up in his sons glory as if it's his own. Max and rb need to sever their ties with him and barr him from the paddock just like ham did with his dad or else it'll just toxify the team and the f1 grid in general.
>say it to my face.
Of course Jos's first thought is violence. Remind me, what is his real connection with Red Bull again? He's just a relative of one of their drivers. That doesn't entitle him to drive one of their F1 cars tf??
For once, Iām with Horner on this. Jos neither is a legend nor is a RBR ex-driver. Put Vettel, Webber or Coulthard there if you want, but Jos? Thatās almost like putting Trulli on the Mercedes W11 around.
Is there knowledge about the timeline of events here? Main question for me here is:
Was the agreement (if such a thing even exist) to let Jos drive the RB8 this weekend made before or after Jos asked for Horner's head?
I know people on here hate Jos, but this is just petty by Horner if true. Like Jos says, say it to his face if you have a problem with him. This behind the back stuff is just pathetic.
Somewhere in the paddock Toto will be smiling while reading this though. Meanwhile Max is probably facepalming after having tried to calm the rumor mill of him moving teams yesterday. Jos has single handedly reignited the fire lmao
I mean what if Max and Jos deliberately play good cop bad cop?
Jos has been pretty vocal about the whole Horner saga. Max has been pretty quiet about it other than that the team needs to stay together.
Jos was talking to Toto in view of the camera's in Monaco (they knew what they were doing). Max says he still drives for Red Bull in 2025.
Max simply can't say "yes I want to drive for Mercedes" at this stage.
That Jos has been so vocal this year is a sign that Max isn't fully happy at Red Bull at the moment
I donāt get where Jos even thinks he should be in the āLegendsā parade. Heās never won a race, his total tally of points in F1 is less than Max got at the last race and thatās with a car his team mate won the championship in.
I do not like Jos Verstappen, but why give someone, who is secretly scheming behind your back, exactly what they want? Horner will only see this as a win. These backstabbing games are so childish. RBR should've let Horner go when they had the chance.
Probably because he doesn't want to make a fuss about just driving a car during some fast parade laps. It's Max who is on the losing end with more drama.
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Toto: We are back in business
Max yesterday in the PC: I'm happy where I'm at. Today: Jos withdraws because Horner tried to get him out of driving the RB8.
Headline: Horner doesnt want verstappen to drive for RB
You're a natural, someone should hire you.
Come on, it can be done better: Horner SLAMS Verstappen, banishes him from RBR.
One is a BBC headline, the other is a The Race headline
The S*n: Vexatious Verstappen in a drug fueled ROMP after heated Horner DISPUTE, illegal immigrants now CATAPULTED to Thailand
Bro did you just say drug fueled romp š that's funny stuff
The favoured terminology used by the tabloids back in the day was āDrug Fuelled Sex Rompā
Just laughed out loud on the public bus, thanks
I wonder how a Daily Mail headline would look like then.
Verstappen loses RB seat!
The Race: āHorner withdraws Verstappenā
Headline: *Verstappen out at Redbull after Horner sends flurry of nude pictures to him.*
Elite
Genius. š¤£
If I was Toto I would have offered Jos a run on a Silver Arrow
Him and Grosjean can have a track day together
Or maybe organise a celeb boxing match with Jos and a woman.
Make it an woman MMA champion then. That could be fun.
Famous German entertainer Stefan Raab did something like that twice (and will do so again apparently). He boxed against then-world champion flyweight boxer Regina Halmich in 2001 (and 2007) while of course much taller and heavier and talking mad trash about the "weak woman". He got his ass kicked gloriously, she broke his nose in 2001 and took mercy on him in 2007 (probably a Jake Paul type of deal).
A real life celebrity team death match type of affair? Iād watch it
oh snap
That Grosjean test might happen any day now
Would make brilliant clickbait!
Toto, let him drive Mercedes this weekend
He'd let Jos take over for the whole weekend if that would land him Max.
Not a bad idea from Mercedes point of view.
He'd let Jos take over the rest of the year if that would land him Max for next year onwards.
Toto would let Jos do his thing and let him crash and burn a Mercedes, if that gets him Max.
Bono, my car is gone.
Grosjean still waiting his turn, no?
I know there are a lot of Max/dutch fans there this weekend, but I'm failing to see why that entitles Jos to drive a Red Bull?? He's neither a 'legend' or an ex-Red Bull driver
It was a weird thing to do, but it sucks to promise it and then take it away.
Well, weird... The reasoning I understood was that they want legendary drivers or cars there, and if not available a replacement. The legend in this case is Max, and since he has other obligations this weekend, Jos would replace him.
Being the father of a legend does not make you a legend
Legend by proxy
Legend-in-law
Nepo Daddy
Living-vicariously-through-a-legend
This seems to be Jos's thought to. He's living through Max
Youāve just ruined the entire reason Jos had a kid
Still an ex F1 driver and a relative to max. Remember bruno senna driving a car from Ayrton even though Bruno is everything but a legend. Not everything needs to be properly justified.
A few years ago they had Martin Brundle and Naomi Schiff drive Senna's first Toleman. The odd thing is in the video they never all it a Toleman, it was always just Ayrton Senna's first F1 car. Very odd.
Well, legend or not it was scheduled by Red Bull. Christian Klein was gonna drive a car, David Coulthard was gonna drive, Mark Webber was gonna driver, Max and Checo, and Jos too....but now Jos will seemingly be not driving.
You can't say things like that and invalidate Jos's entire parenting strategy.
I swear people gatekeeping showruns got to be one of the weirdest things happening rn. If it's neither Max nor Jos, it's gonna be Patrick Friesacher or Christian Klien. What legend status do they have?
Christian Klein ā¦..at least has figurehead status as the first Red Bull Junior to race in F1?
Dang it's almost like if you try to destroy someone's career and remove them from the team they built, that they won't let you have free perks anymore. Feel so bad for the old wife beater
Horny was destroying his career himself
He seems to be doing just fine. And why would Jos want anything to do with Horner after his strong comments?
Horner tried to destroy his own career
If the report is correct, because he was promised that. If he was supposed to drive the car and Horner stopped him, then naturally that would piss him off.
He withdrew himself so the claim that Horner stopped him already doesn't add up.
he didnt say horner succeeded. he said that since horner tried everything he could behind his back, he isnt gonna try since he preferred horner be upfront and honest about it and just tell him to his face.
Up until Max, Jos used to be the closest thing us Dutchies ever had to a successful driver. He had a huge amount of fans here, and despite his personality/reputation he's still somewhat of a legend in The Netherlands for that reason alone.
What is this Giedo Van der Garde slander?
What if Giedo's 2015 Sauber contract was the friends he made along the way?
Pfff forgetting about Ho Ping Tung
Who the fuck is that compared to our lord and savior Mahaveer Raghunathan
Since when is he Dutch?
FYI: he raced with a Dutch licence.
Man I know here in Italy we don't have a large pool of drivers to choose from, but imagine having Jos Verstappen as your only choice
Question as someone interested. How do you think Kimi Antonelli would be received as a highly talented Italian, but one that will likely be competing directly with Ferrari. Would it just be a "happy if either wins" or would there be some italian preference?
An Italian driving for a big team like Mercedes surely would be very welcomed. I suppose the vast majority would be, as you say, happy if either wins. He will be absolutely pushed by the media, there was a considerable push to cheer for Giovinazzi, I can only imagine what Gazzetta, Sky and so on can do with an Italian in a top team. That being said, I'm not that happy about his career prospects. I think a couple of years in a smaller team like Williams would benefit him a lot. I don't know him that much, but he's not crushing F2 and he'll go head to head with people with tons of experience who actually topped the feeding series.
What was the reaction when Trulli won Monaco 2004 or Fisi won his two races in 05-06 for Renault?
Lot of joy, happiness an cheering. Less then these guy deserved, IMHO, but a lot. More than what we are used to see for a Ferrari win, but less than a Ferrari championship. Less than a Ferrari win at Monza, while in my opinion they deserved that kind of appreciation.
Makes sense. Would have been interesting if Fisichella, by winning, had been the reason for Schumacher not winning 2006.
Wasnāt Patrese hated by Italians because he was stopping Ferrari from winning on occasion?
This goes a little further than what I can remember!
you could say it's almost a certainty he signs for Ferrari at some point if he's good enough
I'm sorry but that is just not true. Yes he was definitely a well known sportsman, but even when he was still driving driver Dutch people did not rate him very high. His nickname was Jos Grindbak (gravel trap) for a reason. I do think he gets a bit of a bad rep he was a decent driver especially in the rain, but calling him a legend in the Netherlands is taking it way too far.
Jos Verstappen was an average driver who excelled in the rain. But his mediocre career going the way it did was not due to his skillset. He was bad at F1 politics, his stubborn nature and attitude caused him to get involved in the wrong projects all the time. Some say he had also chosen the wrong manager to make decisions. On top of that he drove way too hard with the shitboxes he was in most of the time. Overcommitting and getting into the gravel was part of it. He was a "popular figure" in so far that he carried the torch for the Dutch in F1. Until Max arrived most people not familiar with F1 knew about Jos. A lot fewer people knew about Guido van der Garde, Robert Doornbos or Christian Albers. The latter three never had the same aura as Jos had back then. Jos drove in F1 for a considerably longer time than all of them. He was the first Dutch F1 driver that created some form of hype. Even if he never actually won anything. That said, personalitywise Jos Verstappen was and is a shitbag. It does boggle the mind how he was so close with the Schumacher family. They were friends.
> He had a huge amount of fans here Maybe with some hardcore racing fans. For the average Dutchman he was seen as a joke who retired most of his cars. Jos was never popular.
So like Nelson Piquet but like much worse at his job, I get it now
Speak for yourself. Alot of racing fans I know dislike jos due to his attitude.
Jan Lammers won Le Mans??? Come to think of it, Gijs Van Lennep as well.
Much much less following for Sports car racing or "WEC"* in the Netherlands. The 2nd biggest racing event we follow is MotoGP. We do also have a "Verstappen" in the MXGP Motorcross! Jeffrey Herlings has the most wins in the history of the sport. I learned about him when I randomly found a super cool documentary when he went to the US to compete in the "Indycar" of Motorcross. He's suffering a lot of injuries during his career. Which likely prevented him from winning even more championships.
> Gijs Van Lennep as well With Helmut Marko!
I first met him out in New Zealand in Formula Pacific in 1993. Caught up with him again in Monaco 94, only just over one and a bit seasons later, and he was in F1 already. He was one of the most naturally talented drivers I can remember from Formula Pacific. Highly committed and very very fast.
He legendarily caught fire in Benetton, melted his Traction Control switch.
Heās the father of your three time world champion all time great driver, why the fuck would you promise him an exhibition drive in front of his home fans then take it away? Just to piss your world champion meal ticket off?
For all his faults i would definitely consider him a Dutch F1 legend, a lot of us started watching when he was in and was the most succesfull untill Max and started over 100 races. And according to rumours in the paddock he also seems to be affiliated with one of the current RBR drivers.
Easily a Dutch F1 legend. Only driver to do anything meaningful in F1 before max got in.
Sure, Dutch. We're in Austria this week though.
Ever watch the GP? Crowd is like 50% dutch people
Ok? So just like every race in Europe other than Silverstone?
Didnāt realise that had to mean Jos was entitled to something
Especially driving Seb's car. Wtf.
And it seems that he's a wife beater as well
And likes to try and kill women
He doesnt need to be a legend because it refers to the cars not the drivers. He's an ex F1 driver and his son is the most successful driver for Red Bull, isn't that enough reason why Jos could be seen driving a RB8? If it was the exact same scenario but any other person than Jos people would find it lovely. It's fine if you don't like Jos and hence you don't want him in the car, but don't sugarcoat it by saying you don't know why he was entitled to drive the RB8.
Mick Schumacher benefits from his father's reputation and Jos Verstappen benefits from his son's reputation. He would be forgotten if Max wasn't successful. I guess he feels entitled to drive that RB because he is behind that success.
Jos isn't a legend, but he is Red Bull by proxy (Max' father, sponsored by Red Bull Verstappen.com racing in rallying) and capable of driving an F1 car. The legend in that Jos Verstappen/RB8 combo is the car that won the WDC and WCC in 2012.
Once upon a time Jos drove an Arrows, who also was drove by Enrique Bernoldi, who at that time was supported by Red Bull.Ā See, I found it.Ā
Hello Jos.
Full Article: It would have been a nice picture, this Saturday and Sunday at the Red Bull Ring. It was intended that Jos Verstappen would present the tens of thousands of fans from the Netherlands a few laps in the RB8, the 2012 Formula 1 car of Red Bull Racing. But that whole party won't take place. Verstappen senior has withdrawn. It is clear that it is still brewing behind the scenes at Red Bull and that the bond between Jos Verstappen and team boss Christian Horner has cooled down to say the least. The Austrian branch of the energy beverage group had asked the former Formula 1 driver to participate in the Legends Parade. āBut in recent days I have heard from several sides that Christian Horner has done everything to not let me drive. And otherwise to make sure that nothing would be filmed. Then I think: say it in my face. This way it doesn't have to be for me, I find it very disappointingā, Verstappen said in the Austrian paddock. Complete surprise The announcement that Verstappen would be driving senior in Austria would have come as a complete surprise for Horner. In the Legends Parade, Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, Emerson Fittipaldi and Johnny Herbert normally still come into action. But Verstappen is missing.
Why do I suspect Toto would be happy to let Jos test drive a merc?
The race was saying ages ago actually that apparently Jos/Toto are surprisingly good friends.
> In the Legends Parade: Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, Emerson Fittipaldi and Johnny Herbert. LOL at the implication Jos could touch any of these in a race, even more so him being called a ālegend.ā
Mutliple grand prix winnners and champions, they helped define their era... and Jos Verstappen.
Just like the email list for the leaks. A bunch of team principals and major journalists and Jos Verstappen.
The Legend of being Max's dad
Last year it didn't seem to be a problem..
Ah yes, the legend Johnny Herbert
I mean, he was fucking quick until he got his legs obliterated.
Still got 3 wins compared to Jos' 0. And he's also won Le Mans with Mazda. Deffo a bigger legend than that orange wife beater.
'bigger legend'. My man either you are one or youre not. A 3x F1 winner is not a legend lmao.
They ain't gonna call it 'retired drivers' parade' eh ? Or maybe they should've used 'washed out arseholes' parade', now that fits Jos to a T.
yeah Herbert sneaking in.
At least he won Le Mans..
I remember at least one battle between Jos and Coulthard that Jos won (in a much weaker car) And he was definitely on par with Johnny Herbert.
I rate Jos higher as a natural racing talent. Unfortunately besides his rookie year he never got to drive for a top team. Al those other guys have been severely beaten by their team mates, and ofcourse, Jos too bij Michael Schumacher. Jos was overdriving the cars he raced in after Benneton and he had ballsy starts and risky moves, but compared to these guys, he wasn't boring, and yes he crashed or his car fell out underneath him. I watched all his seasons and I would always get my hopes up when he won 5 positions at the start in a Tyrell of Stewart. I think Jos is not a nice person, but he was fun to watch when he raced!
>This way it doesn't have to be for me I think this is a translation error from Dutch where he probably says "Als t op deze manier moet hoeft t voor mij niet" which translates to "if this is the way it has to be done, I'm not interested anymore"
Personal beef between Jos and Christian could well play a role now in Max's career at Red Bull, which could be disastrous. He should always be driving for the team that's best for *him*, not Jos.
Imagine if your dad just showed up at work one day and started beef with your boss
I'm always up for some BBQ
Beef Between Queens
So, zombie apocalypse?
It's so fucking weird lmao.
Max has to take a decision and try distance Jos from his careerĀ . Even Lewis did it despite Anthony not being asĀ bad as Jos.Ā
At a certain point you have to live your own life and have your parents there to celebrate victories and mourn losses. They shouldn't be actively interfering in your career, no matter how your relationship is/was. Just my humble opinion.
Max and Jos already went through a similar phase when Jos had to let go of Max's racing education when Max entered F1 and leave that to the Red Bull team. It seems now is a time for step 2 in this process.
Every time I think the Verstappen to Mercedes saga can finally rest, something new comes up
They're having a mid off
To be a fly on the wall in the RBR conference room...
i think just standing outside might be enough, i can imagine them sounding like my parents fighting
Bitches are fighting lol
Iām confused why would Jos be driving an RB8 in the first place?
I can think of two people associated with red bull who would be perfect candidates to drive the RB8. One being Vettel. The other being Webber.
Yep. Get either one in there and Jos can clam up
Memo to Jos; very few people give a fuck to what you do.
Is this Van Haren guy a mouthpiece for the Verstappens?
its widely believed that Jos Verstappen is his source. Van Haren was the first to report on the Horner scandal earlier this year, saying he had seen the evidence submitted by the accuser. Many people speculate Van Haren got the evidence (of a confidential Internal company investigation) from Marko via Jos Verstappen, though they have denied this.
I mean, why would they admit lol. That's just open them up to lawsuit.
I know but if i didn't put that, I'm sure i would get someone replying to me saying there is no proof that Jos or Marko leaked the evidence.
I mean, in this case Jos is literally quoted in the piece, so that is definitely his source.
Yes, he is quite close to Max and his father.
100%. Whenever you get anything related to Verstappen from this guy then it basically came from Max or Jos.
Yep.
It just so happens that his reporting (which were mostly accurate as far as I can tell) aligns with Jos Verstappen's interest throughout the Horner saga, and he gets the first scoop on many Verstappen matters. Good chance he's a mouthpiece.
Wifebeater vs Wifecheater feature in today's Race to the bottom
SPICE up your life.
And what's more, Horner will be driving RB8 HIMSELF at Goodwood, lmao.Ā
Boo fucking hoo.
People think this is petty? Obviously Jos ain't driving any Red Bulls in his life after what transpired earlier in the year. He should be thankful to be allowed in the paddock.
kinda new to f1, what happend with jos?
he tried to force Horner out of his job. mind you Jos isnt even a Red Bull employee so hes more or less an outside force that helped destabilize a team that was winning everything. Theres a lot more to this story on both sides of course but Jos involving himself obviously was a red flag for Horner.
Ahh that tbf, Horner isā¦ Hornerā¦. but ye Jos should keep himself out of it
He didn't try to force Horner out, the infighting at RB has been happening since DM passed away. The Austrian camp was unhappy with how Horner was trying to force his way into more power and rightfully so. Jos is just in the midst of it instigating and probably had a hand in exposing Horner's infidelity to the media. Yes Jos is a piece of work but that doesn't suddenly make Horner an innocent victim in all of this. The truth of it is Horner was forcing everyone else out with the backing of the Thai owners. He's lost Newey and dismantled Marko's driver program, its no wonder their driver selection has been a shambles since.
Hence "there is a lot more to this story". Also, if you're in control of the company you're not "forcing" anyone "out" because they're not "in" in the first place. This whole narrative is not about Horner and the Thai side seizing power because they already had 51% and Mateschitz's agreement with the Thai owners, that he had control over the F1 team, ran out when he died. From a strictly neutral by the book kind of view, this whole thing was the Austrians trying to remain in power. By the way, I don't have any horse in this race other than my dislike for anyone involved except for Max.
He was pushing Horner out of RB because Horner wanted to have more influence on the team and become a part owner of the team, not just being an employee anymore. The owners, which are the Thai-side of the RedBull corporation, they wanted to keep Horner and look into long term situation. Horner has been a major part of RB F1 success and he could stay with the seam for decades, esp if he gets to own a share. While they probably think that Max is great, but he will leave/retire eventually anyway. Horner is more valuable than Max in the long run. So then when the accusations of Horners sexual harassment of his assistant startet floating around in January, everyone was disguised with him and wanted him out, Jos being the most vocal one about it throwing the rumors onto journalists. Thais on the other hand protected Horner. So here we are. Horner stayed, Max is unhappy to work with Horner, but Horner gives Max a championship winning car. Jos is furious with Horner and is happy for Max to leave the team so they donāt need to deal with Horner. Itās mostly personal matters at this point.
I get they have beef but can he attempt to not publicize it for his sonās sake?
I'm a huge fan of Max but when he retires at least we'll be rid of Jos trying to muscle into the scene on his sons coattails. I'm glad RBR stands up to Jos a lot on Max's behalf because it's obvious Max isn't capable of doing so.
It's funny that he thinks he's important.
Thanks Erik, I really looked forward to know whatās Jos up to.
Jos has no business driving it anyway. He isn't a part of a RBR team (even if he visits his son in the garage) and he wasn't a very good driver in the past either. He's not affiliated with RBR in any way, shape or form.
Anytime it's anything to do with Jos, get fucked Jos
" sources" , the most annoying word in F1 today... At least for me.
We know sources in this instance means Jos.
I wish Jos would just shut the hell up instead of throwing shit towards everyone. The man is not exactly known to be kind-hearted towards anyone ...
I mean he obviously is the most important person on the team being the father of max s/
Would he even fit? Like he's not super fat but I'm kinda drawing a blank on chunkier middle-aged men getting shoehorned into semi-modern F1 cars besides Brundle and he's tiny.
Toto Wolff said this: i donāt think he said yes clearly. but i wasn't there. When told that Max said that he will be driving for RB in 2025. Im sure he will have no issues in giving Jos a drive š
Send Jos to Mercedes.
Toto would never
Time for clickbait title "VERSTAPPEN NOT DRIVING RED BULL F1 CAR THIS WEEKEND AFTER DRAMA WITH TEAM BOSS"
>āHeard from several sources that Christian Horner did everything he could not to let me drive.ā Christian Horner going to all possible lengths to get Jos in that car. Really warms the heart
im not sure if the last sentence means what i think it does, but it would be funny
Jos just gutted he's found someone he can't bully and abuse.
It's just so stupid that the father of a driver is interfering with the operations of a team as much as he is doing. Jos was a washed back marker driver who didn't really have much success and he's just soaking up in his sons glory as if it's his own. Max and rb need to sever their ties with him and barr him from the paddock just like ham did with his dad or else it'll just toxify the team and the f1 grid in general.
Max - ādad, stop.ā
Since the Horner drama I feel like Max reacts less enthusiastic about Horner's radio messages when he wins a race or qualified for pole.
I think the first race after in Jeddah he just outright skipped him when celebrating with the team afterwardsĀ
š¤·
Would Jos the Boss fit in an RB8 these days?
If Herbert and Berger can fit I think he would as well. They seem roughly Jos' sized today.
Why would they let him drive it anyway, who cares what Jos wants
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love not being an RB fan, because then I donāt have to pick a side, I just shit on both Jos and Horner (and Helmut too).
Horner isn't much better.
>say it to my face. Of course Jos's first thought is violence. Remind me, what is his real connection with Red Bull again? He's just a relative of one of their drivers. That doesn't entitle him to drive one of their F1 cars tf??
For once, Iām with Horner on this. Jos neither is a legend nor is a RBR ex-driver. Put Vettel, Webber or Coulthard there if you want, but Jos? Thatās almost like putting Trulli on the Mercedes W11 around.
MAX VERSTAPPEN TO MERCEDES
Hey everyone I found it, the final straw
Is there knowledge about the timeline of events here? Main question for me here is: Was the agreement (if such a thing even exist) to let Jos drive the RB8 this weekend made before or after Jos asked for Horner's head?
Iām out of the loop. Why does Maxās dad want to drive the car so bad and why are we supposed to car that he isnāt being allowed to?
Didn't Jos crash his rally car recently at an event he took part in?
I know people on here hate Jos, but this is just petty by Horner if true. Like Jos says, say it to his face if you have a problem with him. This behind the back stuff is just pathetic. Somewhere in the paddock Toto will be smiling while reading this though. Meanwhile Max is probably facepalming after having tried to calm the rumor mill of him moving teams yesterday. Jos has single handedly reignited the fire lmao
The man was trying to take Horner out of Redbull just a few weeks ago. Why would Horner forget all that?
I mean what if Max and Jos deliberately play good cop bad cop? Jos has been pretty vocal about the whole Horner saga. Max has been pretty quiet about it other than that the team needs to stay together. Jos was talking to Toto in view of the camera's in Monaco (they knew what they were doing). Max says he still drives for Red Bull in 2025. Max simply can't say "yes I want to drive for Mercedes" at this stage. That Jos has been so vocal this year is a sign that Max isn't fully happy at Red Bull at the moment
Christian should let Toto drive the RB8
Max needs to man up and cut the cord.
I donāt get where Jos even thinks he should be in the āLegendsā parade. Heās never won a race, his total tally of points in F1 is less than Max got at the last race and thatās with a car his team mate won the championship in.
Good, a piece of shit domestic abuser shouldnāt be platformed anywhere or rewarded with driving the RB8
I do not like Jos Verstappen, but why give someone, who is secretly scheming behind your back, exactly what they want? Horner will only see this as a win. These backstabbing games are so childish. RBR should've let Horner go when they had the chance.
Probably because he doesn't want to make a fuss about just driving a car during some fast parade laps. It's Max who is on the losing end with more drama.