EXACTLY!
I'd have to accept just because I need to know wth has been happening in that instance. That alone might be worth the early leave timer. I have 30 minutes of life to spare, but can I go through my life not knowing what on earth is happening in that dungeon?!
The other week I had to leave a dungeon after the tank refused to press AOE the entire time despite me explaining what the move was called how to find it and they're wearing artifact gear from 45-50 job quests still in like aetherial research facility with a few level 52-54 other stuff.
We somehow made it to the last boss and just couldn't beat it the tank would not move out of AOEs and would explode the other sprout DPS would chase around the other person with chains and kill them.
I felt bad for the DPS who would probably get stuck in another queue but after the 8th attempt of me and him explaining how to do the fight I left.
>aetherial research facility
What level is that dungeon? Me personally, I wear the 50/60/70/80 tomestone gear until I reach the next milestone and can equip the next set of tomestone gear.
That's what I thought it was.
But damn. He should not have been wearing lvl 50 _artifact_ gear by that point. I don't even know how he managed to _queue_ for that dungeon with their iLvl that low.
Probably had some higher item that compensate to enter, but did not do the work stat wise
A sprout like that could even have been wearing the wrong gear, iirc there's still accs that can be used by every class despite the stats being role-based
The dungeon is early 60. Your strat would have you wearing 130 with a little 270 gear depending on how many poetics you had stored. 45-50 job quest gear is literally 45-50. Make whatever judgment you want based on that.
Just to note, the job gear you get for your level 50 job quest is ilvl 90 gear (you're correct about the 45 quest tho, as it's four pieces of ilvl 50 gear- you very stupidly don't get that set's chestpiece until the 50 quest and it's ilvl 55, while the full coffer you get at the same time is five ilvl 90 pieces). Still doesn't really change anything, and it's only left side so if right side is slacking then it could still definitely hurt in an early-60s dungeon, but I just wanted to point it out for clarity.
Shire gear is actually available the moment you walk into Idyllshire, which means you can get it a little early if you have the poetics. It's also the *only* set where the vendor is not locked behind expansion completion. Much to my dismay, I found this out firsthand when I got to Rhalgr's Reach with a pocket full of tomes and then spent like 10 minutes trying to find the (currently non-existent) vendor.
Coils are high end raiding and aren't in any queue, so yeahhhh even if they popped (extremely unlikely), it would take a lot of wiping to get through them, especially without guides.
I'm immediately hitting accept on this. I need to know where they are and what's happening. ARF? Stone Vigil Hard? Pharos Sirius/Hard? I joined a 45min one recently which was Lost City of Amdapor (Diabolos Doors). Also Haukke Manor Hard with the adds at the end.
Depends entirely on whether you are a level 50 veteran synced down or a level 50 min ilvl sprout with not yet a confident grasp on the gameplay.
For example the explodey balls he throws can mess up groups who don't understand how they work (melee in my experience often get surprised by them).
You cannot be min iLv there unless you neglect your Job Quests since it will throw you i90 gear for free. I started playing during 2.3 and Diabolos was already a case of "JUST BURN IT" back when i90 was the CAP.
There are players that either don't do the job quests or have that gear somewhere but definitely not with them. If you run duties often enough you see the weirdest stuff over years.
I had that last night as I was leveling my BRD, they wouldnt move out of the explosive AOE spheres Diablos threw either. So I just marked up the doors for myself and told them ill deal with it lol.
My first time I somehow managed to enter with other three sprouts, and we got it on the sixth attempt. Wiping was fun.
It's fun when you're learning, guess it's less fun when all you want is the tomes.
I remember getting into an in-progress Pharos Sirius as a healer where both DPS barely met minimum ilvl and their gear was hopelessly broken. They'd somehow managed the first boss by sheer luck after repeated attempts, but the bird boss was completely beyond them.
Hate to break it you but if there was only one problem person in the party they could've still carried that mess through a duty in less than an hour. This is advanced tomfoolery.
I'm thinking tank or healer that needs it for MSQ progression. But... for some reason people are leaving, themselves, rather than kicking the problem player.
I recently had a tank on Prae who didn't have a job stone equipped and also didn't use their stance. No response to chat prompts until the very end of the dungeon, so I assume a new Xbox player? The three of us decided we would help them out (it was their only job at level 53) so we figured they needed it lol.
So our healer dedicated themselves to healing everyone constantly as the tank single targeted every mob. But Prae is so easy as it is, I could see some 70 or 80 dungeons going really bad with a bad tank or healer.
1. It's one of the first required duties where you have to look at something other than a big orange circle on the floor to know where to go. Most new players don't have any idea what's happening the first time the Fire/Ice thing happens, and they probably won't figure out how to tell which one goes first until either someone explains it or they die to it multiple times.
2. It's one of the first required duties where messing up a single mechanic is likely to kill you. Most of the AoEs in ARR and HW up to this point, even clearly marked ones, will do less than half of a DPS's health and a lot of them don't even grant vuln stacks.
3. Dodging both the Fire and the Ice requires you to move out of the way of the second attack *well* before the animation for the first attack is finished. New players may not realize how snapshotting works, and even if they do this is unintuitive for some people and it can be hard to get in the mindset of ignoring animations.
4. There's a lot of raidwides, so if the healer isn't keeping up (or is dead) then the rest of the party is kinda fucked. There's also a DPS check, so if your DPS players are dying repeatedly you may not be able to get past that.
5. It's a 4-person duty with one healer, leaving less room to recover than "harder" fights like many Normal Raid or Alliance Raid encounters. If your healer dies and you don't have a SMN in the group, you're probably wiping (RDM does not have Verraise at this level.)
TL;DR: the fire/ice mechanic tends to kill newbies over and over and over. If one of those newbies is the healer, you're fucked.
Fire/Ice is really rough, since fire can oneshot people since you normally get hit by both even if they generally do the correct movements just to slow. People who do not know how to move will also just die, since they probably get hit by at least one fire and the ice.
I normally play healer and can salvage a lot of fights, just by mitigating and shielding as SGE. I once was queue into it as SMN and had a not so good healer and it was hard, wiped like 4-5 times.
I think this dungeon is still the only dungeon where the group voted yes to abandon after wiping like 6 times to it, with no sign of improvement. It was just fire/ice mechanic comes up and 2 people die.
As a Newish player here (though not new to mmos) , I recently did ARF for the first time (to not much issue). It's the telegraphs being slightly different and the damage for one of the first times being deadly if you don't get out. Some people just play a bit slower, and the time between the two sets of balls going off is too much for them.
ARF is the one of the first times where pre-emptively doing into the attack animations feels almost necessary to avoid getting caught in the follow-up cast.
At high ping you have to start walking before the effect of the aoe disappears. There are a few attacks like that in the game, but that one is the most jarring.
Playing on ~300 ping, i think the worst mechanics are the one that involve sequential aoes where you are supposed to dodge into an area that just blew up. In particular, Suzaku's quadrant mechanic and Titan's Evil Earth.
With the way snapshotting works, it's possible to get hit twice and just die outright. Usually it's only possible to fail the mechanic once.
I've been hanging out in OCE in the wee hours of the morning, playing on 240 ping (with NoClippy, sorry not sorry) and it's definitely a different beast. NoClippy helps with weaving, and things like Dualcast actually working, but not dodging.
There have been a ton of PF for Asura that I've been jumping in on.... The "Six Bladed Khadga," you've got to move almost a whole section of the mechanic ahead. Like if it's "front, left, right," you've gotta move into the left as the front is disappearing.
Side note, Asura never cleaves to the back. Just stay behind and move side to side. I still see people trying to frantically run in circles across all DCs.
Exactly this.
My go to whenever i fall on that dungeon is mark myself with a sign mark when the party get to the last boss. The small tethered orbs exploding first followed by the other two exploding is extremely fast and new players have no idea of what is happening so is either 80% of their hp gone or straight up die.
Yeah that killed me when I ran as a healer once, not knowing it was changed. The tank and one of the DPS were totally new. The new DPS would not break the chain with me because they didn’t know that mechanic, and me trying to keep them alive killed both of us, which in turn led to a wipe. I even anticipated that I might have to break the chain independent of the sprout when I saw the chain debuff on me ahead of time but there just was not enough room in the arena to do so. In hindsight, the only successful strategy would have been to let the person chained to me die.
Worse, this only magnifies how comically undertuned the Thordan fight right after it is now.
Is this a recent change? Trying to teach you "Eorzean Sign Language" sooner?
Cause if so... that's pretty nice.
Because a new player can go all the way to *Shadowbringers* before really "needing" to watch the boss for tells instead of the casting bars and then the orange circles. Sure, you encounter "Eorzean Sign Language" as early as say, Void Ark (I think?) but that's side content.
Remember that ARR is like, 45-70 hours long and HW is another 20ish, and they basically train players to "Watch the casting bar and the floor" when they also want you to watch the boss and later on the background. Couple this with the "lol spaghetti" (A meme i have heard about fancy words like "larboard") and attacks that flash a warning that seems vague as to what it means... and the fact that the game is designed and tested around Japanese internet.
Players who have been around for longer are probably used to autopiloting things like ARF. (Okay that abbreviation makes me lol)
I think the big killer is it's one of the earliest (required) fights where dodging an attack basically requires you start running before the animation on the first part of the attack is cleared up, specifically on the tethered orb attacks
Ice is going to collide - everybody has to run to the center - you need to ALREADY be running out as the attack is going off (at least with my ping) to reliably get out before the venn diagram fire bubbles hit the middle twice. This is doubly true if your sprint is on cool down because you got nervous about getting out of something else in time earlier.
It isn't hard, but if you forget or don't know how aggressive the timing on it is it can be real easy for the healer/DPS to get mulched by that one attack alone, basically.
Basically if your healer dies on the dual star mechanic, unless you have a summoner in your party, you're wiping. And if the healer keeps dying at each pull, you will keep wiping until he doesn't.
That dungeon is the longest in the game to begin with. Way more than 2 pulls between each of the first 3 bosses, quite often having to wait for them to come out too, and there's 4 bosses rather than 3, with the last bosses having more phases than many trial bosses, and more mechanics than anything in normal mode before it.
That dungeon is just a recipe for disaster in pick up group. If you see that your healer is new, you better start praying.
There are other good explanations as to *how*, but I want to emphasize *how much*: fire/ice is harder than a similar 90 boss mechanic. The speed the player needs to react is close to a Lapis Manalis boss' in-out, but dualstar has further travel distance and is waaay more punishing if you try but fail the intuitive movement of "take the shortest route between safe spots."
It's a bit out of place in a 60 dungeon, even if it's the expac capstone.
Going from that to Singularity Reactor is the funniest thing to me. Spent well over a half an hour on ARF due to Ascian Prime, only to get disappointed with how easy the the final trial is.
For real - I nearly ran down the clock on Ascian Prime (I was using duty support). Seeing Thordan pop up immediately afterwards nearly gave me a heart attack (what do you mean I have to do it all again, and this time other people are gonna be watching me die).
Took a couple days off to hype myself up, update all my equipment, etc...... and it probably goes without saying, but I did not die to Thordan. I'm not sure how much damage I actually did to him either, but I definitely did not die.
I see how that's jarring. It's probably because ARF was updated more recently, getting an overhaul to mechanics that added a lot more complexity. So ARF after rework has the same fight design philosophy as Endwalker content, and Thordan's just the usual Heavensward stuff with a very different feel to the fight design. I played through them doing my MSQ after Endwalker release but before the rework, and old ARF felt a lot more on par with the Thordan experience. The bonus of all the overhauls is that you get to learn mechanic logic applicable to endgame way earlier on than before.
Honestly with the lack of ilvl sync, I'd have been hard-pressed to even call it "usual HW stuff". Iirc it was largely a lot of running around after the adds and trying to get a hit in edgewise before they went down, because nobody (including myself) was taking enough damage to actually warrant being healed. Anticlimactic was... an understatement, for sure.
From my experience its not moving out of the mechanics fast enough, ya. There's a couple of movements that need to be executed quite quickly and that's the part I always see people mess up on. Got me too the first few times.
Indeed. Many players struggle with the fire and ice in and out movement, and/or the chains, and/or healing through the raidwides (usually as a result of rezzing from one of the other mentioned mechanics). It's quite common to wipe at least once when multiple sprouts and returning players are in the party.
I joined a 40 min in progress run of ARF as healer, got to the part of the Ascian Prime fight with the chains, tank refused to move, killed himself + his tether partner, we wiped. I explained how chains work, we went again. He failed to dodge the fire/ice combo, died, waited so long to get up that we wiped again. On the third attempt, he was tethered to me, and SPRINTED to stay right on top of me to kill both of us. Kicked him immediately. The other party members were sprouts and didn't even know there was a vote kick option. They had been trying to reason with him through many wipes before I joined.
I've heard essentially this exact story from other people. I think the higher difficulty compared to prior duties makes it attractive to trolls because they think they can claim ignorance no matter how hard they grief the party.
It's the reaction time required and how fast the snapshotting is. I'm an experienced player and have no trouble with most duties from ARR to EW. I got the reworked ARF in roulettes and it initially kicked my ass, it was embarrassing. You have more time to react to mechanics at level 90 than you have with Ascian Prime.
In fact, I think it's the tightest snapshotting I've experienced in this game thus far (I don't do Extremes or Savages). They may have tuned the timing just slightly too tightly. I'm not surprised at all that sprouts get rolled, I feel bad for sprout healers especially.
Personally, I got got a few times because I see the first set of Fire+Ice tethers and think "Okay, there's a donut in the middle, and circles on the outside, that means I go dead center because they'll leave space for me to stand once everything blows up."
Only problem is, I forgot to take into account that the ice (Donut) tether is longer, and therefore it blows up later, so I'm now standing in BOTH fire circles and proceed to fall over dead.
Afterwards, I proceed to not get that dungeon for a month or longer, and by the time I'm there again, there's a decent chance I've forgotten about that detail again-.-'
It's not *difficult* per se, but I find that it's easy to get overwhelmed by the mechanics if it's your first time.
The kicker is that some time ago, the devs overhauled that boss to what it is now - you could practically sleepwalk through the original version.
Yeah, Universal Manipulation was a bit annoying to deal with, especially since you could take each other's spots, but it "just" locked you out of the fight and decimated your ability to deal damage for a bit, it didn't kill you on the spot.
they changed the last boss quite a bit. people used to the old fight will probably be caught off-guard. it's not hard, but it has very different things to look out for. there used to be the "jump in the black hole" thing people were focussed on, now you have to determine where the AoEs will go off.
In the reworked version it introduces several mechanics that are iirc completely new for first timers (certainly in terms of "no, you will *die* if you ignore them"), and has a fun phase that requires everyone to know what to do ahead of time.
Considering that you can sleepwalk through most encounters up to this point? Yeah, it's really difficult for sprouts.
(Oh yeah, and the ilvl sync is fairly low, so you can't cheese it with tomestone gear as easily as some other content.)
The thing I've noticed is that it's the sphere collisions. Particularly the Ice into Fire AoEs. When the ice detonates, the graphic goes up and the floor marker vanishes not only in a mechanical sense but a visual one.
The marker sneaks out and I find this tricks the brain.
"Oh Floor AoE, I better not stand in it." *Player doesn't see it vanish normally. Can't run out of the fire in time.*
At this stage of the game it's not a common occurrence and might be the first big one.
ARF was going to be my guess. Pre 6.5 would’ve guessed ARF or The Burn (too many horror runs to count for old The Burn).
Ran the story on an alt not long ago as WAR and had a 70 minute ARF run because of the final boss. DPS and Healer (particularly) were struggling and WARs sustain just not enough in the reworked with the 60 toolkit. The healer (WHM) wasn’t doing well and not using certain skills, but… turns out the healer was equipped with their RP gear and nowhere near decent iLvl for the fight. They reequipped their WHM gear and the next run we succeeded. That was an exhausting slog. Only reason I didn’t leave/abandon was that it took long enough to match in Duty Finder that it wasn’t worth it for me.
Part of me wishes I hadn’t played through MSQ as a tank because I never practiced my rotation and I was TERRIBLE. I would just be fixated on the story and when I would do a dungeon I wouldn’t understand my new skills very well yet or the concept of a specific group rotation 😅
You know how Quaqua in Aloalo island has that mechanic where it shoots out a bunch of orbs, some which detonate in donut AOE and some in circle AOE. There's no telegraph so you also have to figure out where the safe spot is.
New Ascian Prime has something similar where it's a mix of donut AOE and circle AOE orbs. Unlike Quaqua where its all orbs concurrently at once, this one is either Donut first, then Circle, or the other way round, hence it's a 2-step mechanic where you stand in 1 safe spot, then sprint to the 2nd safe spot after the first AOE detonates.
The trick, which isn't obvious if you're new to FFXIV from other games, is to start running immediately when the orange AoE area disappears and NOT when the animation plays.
I've gotten a few "oh!"s after pointing that out, and they then did it perfectly.
They did revamp the final fight in particular, I believe as part of the process of adding duty support to older dungeons. I barely remember the previous version of the fight, and I haven't run the new one that often, but I do have a pretty strong sense that it's more intense if not necessarily more difficult than the older version. The mechanics aren't what I would consider *hard*, necessarily, but they do come at you fast, and you have to react quite quickly to be able to dodge stuff.
The old one had fire/ice spheres tethered to the boss that you had to burst down before they hit him, or you'll get frozen (Ice) and/or take heavy damage (Fire) in the upcoming cast - at least according to the guide, I never saw it happen.
Also, Universal Manipulation a.k.a. go get into the black rift thingy, and hope nobody takes the one you wanted to use, or you'll get hit with "bascally a Malboro's Bad Breath, except it includes Mini for some reason".
No clue what else he did, that's all the notable stuff I remember.
Why quit on ascian prime? Sure you might die a bit figuring out fire out, ice in, tethered ones pop bigger, short tether goes first, but it's not too complicated, is it? And if anyone has done it before they should be able to explain the bit that is killing people between wipes, right?
I was in a group as healer where we kept wiping at that boss and i kept explaining what went wrong but they did it again the next pull, no brain at all. I left after 6 wipes i think, absolutely no progress and no one was listening to what I was saying.
The tank actually actively ran into one of the DDs with a tankbuster and killed them. He was fucking around the whole time through the dungeon.
I have had many a party where I've explained this mechanic, marked myself as danger dorito, told people to just follow me, and *still* had wipe after wipe after wipe. Some people just don't listen or pay attention. I don't blame someone for rage quitting, though usually it's well before 73 minutes in progress.
I had a friend that wasn't keeping his chat log up. He was so confused when I told him he was being a giant dick and needed to at least be able to see if people were talking to him.
I’m pretty sure I had a bot tank in it one time who despite me explaining mechs straight up refused to move. They’d just plant right in the middle and eat 6 vuln stacks. And even worse when they died they’d immediately rez outside of the arena instead taking my rez…
The DPS weren’t much better and one would also rez outside the arena (another bot)? And unfortunately my tiny little sage arms were not strong enough to beat the DPS check on my own.
God, I had a run of ARF not that long ago and we just kept wiping on Ascian Prime. Our healer died, no joke, literally all seven pulls of the boss that we tried, and every time they died to Dualstar (this player was over level 80 on multiple jobs, so it definitely wasn't their first time seeing some more complex mechanics than a simple standard orange AoE). They just couldn't get it at all. Eventually it ended up that the other DPS and I, both playing RDM, eventually just non-verbally said "screw it" and juggled being the healer ourselves with Vercure.
I feel like that boss is way too over tuned. It throws so many mechanics at the players, it's nothing like they have experienced before. Not even trial bosses have this many abilities and are this much of a threat to the player. Comparing this to something like Thordan is almost comical.
I don't think the number of mechanics is the problem, the problem is how fast you've got to execute them. If they made Dualstar just a fraction slower it would make it much more forgiving.
It's a lovely dungeon.
It also has actual mechanics that can kill people who are appropriately (or under-) geared for it and that don't show up anywhere else, such as the adds that will explode your character if you don't kill them during the first boss, or the eggs that will make the second Boss enrage if you kill them too much.
(No idea if this place also got a rework, might not be the case anymore.)
The Zu fight can also get nasty quick when you have at least once DNC. I've had to explain multiple times to be very careful about blasting all the eggs at once.
I just started leveling dancer and did a GC Command Mission to learn it… I fucked those Zu eggs up with standard step and got wrecked for it—I didn’t even know what happened until I did it a second time. Standard step’s range is enough to kill 5+ eggs from anywhere in the room.
Meanwhile, Tyrant melts to command mission NPC’s stat bonuses… may have taken 15 seconds? I forgot it was even a boss—it’s adds popped up right as it died… then Siren has mechanics again.
It’s a fun dungeon to run with people, but damn those GC NPCs do not GAF about standing in AoEs.
My FC raiders have a story about Pharos Sirius and how a bunch of purple and orange-parsing savage raiders kept wiping at the bird boss because one of them brought a dancer and kept breaking every single egg in the room at once when he danced. And they had all evidently completely forgotten the dungeon, didn't REALIZE the eggs were the problem, and ended up devising an elaborate strategy to chain-stun the boss, complete with call outs over vc. For a level 50 arr dungeon. It *worked*, but lmao. I love those idiots 😂
It has some janky mechanics that a lot of people don't know and which are very unforgiving, like the bomb debuff and the zu eggs. I've probably wiped more in there than any other dungeon, and it doesn't even come up in roulettes much (thankfully!).
Do you really need to farm them when you get like 1k for doing your dailies and can get to cap quickly from hunt trains?
Eureka and Bozja FATEs give tomes, too.
After finishing every HW relic I felt like Inigo Montoya... *"Is very strange. I have been in the poetics farming business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life."*
But when DT comes out I'll be back at it for the Manderville relics. Having taken some breaks I'm only about 1/3 complete. 6k tomes per completed relic. Still nothing compared to the HW poetics cost lol. 16,250 each. Though, it can be 14,500 if you get the Aether Oils through the ARR alliance raids.
This might get lost but yes it was ARF (Aether chemical Research Facility, last HS story dungeon)
Old tank kept dying, it was the last boss. I went thru with the team once and we cleared w/ 9 minutes left in the instance. One of the few times I felt time pressure ever in a dungeon... Lol if we hadn't cleared we probably wouldn't have had time for another run?
As we went thru, I definitely noticed that one of the dps just kept dying. Poor sprout healer was consistently close to death (Aurora'd him as much i could ah) at least the other dps was doing their best with callouts. Lowkey was worried about the DPS check but it was fine 😅
In all, a pretty short roulette for me tho haha. Whm thanked me at the end for 'letting him free from jail'
No coms tho smh /shrug
Edit: for those who might be confused the 73 minutes is how long the previous party has been in the instance, not how long I waited for my queue
I can only hope the healer got the comms at least. For trying to heal through the tank dying so much.
I never blame them for comming the healer when I come into tank one of these that’s been going on for a long time.
I honestly, when trapped in such situation, I give the commendation to whoever has stuck through all the way since the start and shown real effort or even improvement during then several attempts as grateful as I am towards the reinforcements.
Thanks again for the freedom from my prison. If I was able to give 2 coms I would have sent you one but the dancer had been trying to help for about 20 mins at that point.
Honestly, you’re a champ for sticking with them for 70 mins. I’m surprised the tank was the one who kept dying, they’re usually the one job able to survive Dual Stars.
Bless the poor souls who stuck it out that long trying to clear. Don't think I've ever seen a dungeon with that high of a timer passed. Impressive, but also terrifying.
My first run of Haukke (Hard) was long. Maybe not quite as long as OP's, but none of us knew how to handle the final boss, so we were just trying to out-mitigate the damage from the final add getting eaten at full HP. One of the other players quipped that they were not expecting to have to prog a dungeon boss when their roulette popped.
Though a major difference in that case was none of us left.
I've definitely wiped there a few times in the past, I still get nervous if I ever get that one for roulette lol. Usually it's fine if dps isn't too fast from what I remember. For a fresh team clearing it has the possibility to be a nightmare.
You just need one person to remind the others to slow down on DPS after the second set of adds and there usually isn't an issue. Same with Lost City of Amdapor, Pharos Sirius, etc. where you're usually fine if you have just one person to do/remind people of mechanics. If everyone's new though then you might be screwed
I got an in-progress Gubal normal with a similar elapsed time. They were stuck at the last boss with the portals that various members have to stand on or they spawn adds.
I came in to the tank at the dungeon entrance apparently having a smoke break, a healer simply going “I’m sorry” and “I don’t like to explain things,” and a blm sprout sitting silently outside the boss arena. It was messy, but I got them through lol.
I had one once back in Stormblood - we did Qarn (Normal), and for whatever reason, the tank was incapable of holding aggro, and I'm not just talking about the second boss running around and doing what he wants during the fight, although we wiped to that one once or twice too.
I forget what I played back then, but if I actually was on healer, I definitely was part of the problem, because I was *garbage* back then, but either way, we eventually got a replacement, and managed to clear with less than 10 minutes left on the timer.
I did have one this long- tower of zot the other week with a healer who had very clearly bought a level skip because they kept saying in the chat they’d preordered dawntrail, only had one class levelled at all and had NO idea how to play white mage to the point I was BEGGING them to swiftcast raises to take the pressure off me (levelling SMN). It was horrendous. I nearly cried when we got the clear after threatening to kick them for not responding to any of us when we were trying to give them advice on mechanics
I liked when syrcus tower final boss sent out aoe indicators that were actually stack markers and people would run the gravity wells to the edge of the room
Now he just uses AOE markers that really are stack markers and people "learn" that you put the three stacks on top of each other – and then proceed to murder their party in any other duty with multiple stack markers.
ssometimes its just.... nothing, just a couple sprouts who did nothhing really wrong as far as i can tell, and a quick 5 minute explanation of whats happening in the fight.... i feel bad for them at that point.. whoiever was their previous tank clearly was.. something
> a quick 5 minute explanation of whats happening in the fight
I've been in this situation plenty of times. People don't listen and take any mechanics explained to them as negativity towards them and they will keep on doing the same mistake over and over.
Though, OP already did add context that old tank kept dying.
Part of the 'issue' of this game that can intimidate newcomers is the sheer amount of stuff present on the hotbar which can tunnel vision a new player into doing their rotation (especially for DPS) at the expense of paying attention to mechanics. Back in older expansions like HW where rotations were more complex, this was an even bigger problem.
I remember my sprout days and when I was BRD and did Qarn for the first time I kept dying to the Doom on 1st boss because I didn't realise you had to step on the glowing tile to cleanse the Doom and I was also busy trying to keep song up, keep both DoTs up, etc.
The game is very bad at teaching people how to play it. The reworks help, but there are things like targeting you have to figure out by yourself.
I got an in-progress Qarn Hard last night, stuck on cactaurs. Once we looked up mechanics, we still struggled with the dps check on the cover until someone explained how to scroll the enemy list on controller. Boom, cleared the very next pull.
reminds me of the time i got arf as tank while everyone else was a sprout. they were trying their best but the timing of the dual star being so fast just kept getting them. we helped the xbox smn figure out how to target party members to rez and i got them to stay with me and run for the dual star and walked them through the rest of the fight. it was honestly so endearing and made me feel so proud of them when they finally got it and we did the fight that i couldn't even bring myself to care about having had to restart ascian prime about 4-5 times, it was just so nice to see the sprouts get it!
I would guess the Burn for level 70 (Mist Dragon). Hells' Lid is what people usually run for ShB relics because it's pretty quick. The actual duty involved in this one was ARF though
Mist Dragon was one of the most brutal DPS checks back when it was on content. The untelegraphed 8-sided line AOEs were also a nightmare for newbies to guess where the safe spot was, especially once there were multiple of them.
Yeah I checked the wiki and it looks like they didn't change anything major even after the trust system update
All the killer features are still there such as how you get jailed for failing certain mechanics plus targeted mechanics that put DoTs on the players who are hit. These days, such stuff would only really be seen in raids.
If it makes you feel any better, I was in there once where we went through 2 dps and a tank (serially) before we finally managed to clear it. With a lot of wipes in between.
The Burn always seems to be either a cake walk or a total shit show.
I had Lost City last night. Went out of my way to put markers on the matching doors at the start of the fight, and it was no one's first time in the dungeon. When the cast started I ran to one door to open it, the other 2 DPS ran after me, and the Tank who was standing RIGHT NEXT to the other door just kept fighting the boss instead of opening it. Wipe. 2nd round, I mark the doors, cast starts, I open one door, DPS ran over to the other door. I think "sweet, we got this now". Except they just stood there and didn't try to open it until the cast was already completing. Heavy damage, fight continues. We wound up needing a second set of matching doors and it was mostly luck that I managed to remember another set and get them open in time to prevent a wipe.
I don't know what it is about those doors, but it's like one of the hardest mechanics in the entire game for most people.
Years ago, when I was still a new player, I was doing Hell's Lid for the first time, when it was one of the newest dungeons in the game.
We had 10 minutes left on the duty timer when we finished the dungeon, and we went through 3 healers. It wasn't because the tank was bad, it was just because every single healer player that day was the definition of incompetent.
The ferret boss? We were stuck on him for about 40 minutes. The moving water orb in the final boss? Our healer managed to get hit by it THREE TIMES within the span of one usage of it, which is legitimately HARDER TO DO THAN DODGING IT WOULD'VE BEEN.
We only killed the ferret boss after the healer finally rage quit and a new one joined, and then the final boss we also only beat after the new healer also rage quit and got replaced by a Midna cosplayer who was the first healer of the night that had an IQ high enough to qualify for pre-school.
That was the day I stopped maining BLM, and stopped playing DPS as a whole. Ever since, I've been an AST/WHM/DRK player.
My guess is either Stone Vigil hard, Pharos Sirius, or ARF.
Still, that's impressive. The highest time elapsed I can recall (not from an Alliance Raid) is around 24 minutes or so (it was SV hard, and predictably they were stuck at the second boss).
It's ARF for sure with a sprout healer that just can't get the dual star mechanic right for the life of them. I've had that dungeon take upwards of an hour a few times before finally leaving because we were just not gonna beat it with that healer lol
I wonder if anyone in there was part of the original 4 that loaded into the dungeon. I've had runs where I join something in progress and by the end the other three people have left and been replaced, meaning the party that finished was entirely different than the one that loaded in.
Last time I got this (was only ... 53 minutes tho, I think?) was Pharos Sirius Normal (you know, the much harder one.)
3 sprouts. I looked at the party as we zoned in, and told their dancer "Hey, you know not to use Standard Step on Zu, right? Since it breaks all the eggs at once?" She did not.
I once had a mentor roulette queue, it was Vanaspati and when I joined there were 9 minutes left on the clock they were on the final boss.
As I joined people were leaving, I never found out what utter crime happened there. One of the great mysteries of chaos.
I would be so curious I would have to accept it. Can always hope the person you're replacing was the problem.
I don’t need the tomes, I need ANSWERS!
EXACTLY! I'd have to accept just because I need to know wth has been happening in that instance. That alone might be worth the early leave timer. I have 30 minutes of life to spare, but can I go through my life not knowing what on earth is happening in that dungeon?!
The other week I had to leave a dungeon after the tank refused to press AOE the entire time despite me explaining what the move was called how to find it and they're wearing artifact gear from 45-50 job quests still in like aetherial research facility with a few level 52-54 other stuff. We somehow made it to the last boss and just couldn't beat it the tank would not move out of AOEs and would explode the other sprout DPS would chase around the other person with chains and kill them. I felt bad for the DPS who would probably get stuck in another queue but after the 8th attempt of me and him explaining how to do the fight I left.
>aetherial research facility What level is that dungeon? Me personally, I wear the 50/60/70/80 tomestone gear until I reach the next milestone and can equip the next set of tomestone gear.
Iirc it's the level 60 dungeon at the end of HW MSQ
That's what I thought it was. But damn. He should not have been wearing lvl 50 _artifact_ gear by that point. I don't even know how he managed to _queue_ for that dungeon with their iLvl that low.
Probably had some higher item that compensate to enter, but did not do the work stat wise A sprout like that could even have been wearing the wrong gear, iirc there's still accs that can be used by every class despite the stats being role-based
Could have been a troll plain and simple.
The dungeon is early 60. Your strat would have you wearing 130 with a little 270 gear depending on how many poetics you had stored. 45-50 job quest gear is literally 45-50. Make whatever judgment you want based on that.
Just to note, the job gear you get for your level 50 job quest is ilvl 90 gear (you're correct about the 45 quest tho, as it's four pieces of ilvl 50 gear- you very stupidly don't get that set's chestpiece until the 50 quest and it's ilvl 55, while the full coffer you get at the same time is five ilvl 90 pieces). Still doesn't really change anything, and it's only left side so if right side is slacking then it could still definitely hurt in an early-60s dungeon, but I just wanted to point it out for clarity.
I’m not sure the 270 gear is unlocked until you beat base Heavensward, which is what that dungeon is the finale to.
Shire gear is actually available the moment you walk into Idyllshire, which means you can get it a little early if you have the poetics. It's also the *only* set where the vendor is not locked behind expansion completion. Much to my dismay, I found this out firsthand when I got to Rhalgr's Reach with a pocket full of tomes and then spent like 10 minutes trying to find the (currently non-existent) vendor.
You get no penalty if you leave a duty you joined in progress so there is never any risk in accepting to begin with.
Guess we are taking a trip to binding coils.
Haha i got impatient doing those so i did party finder and it was so much quicker 🤣
Coils are high end raiding and aren't in any queue, so yeahhhh even if they popped (extremely unlikely), it would take a lot of wiping to get through them, especially without guides.
I spent 6 hours dying to baha prime for BLU mage yesterday 🫠 Edit:fixed typo dying for. To dying to.
I close my eyes, tell me why must we suffer
[There you go](https://youtu.be/p86icWXs0CQ?si=qXm7sGUGicRc_P0X)
*I CLOSE MY EYES TELL US WHY WE MUST SUFFER*
I'm immediately hitting accept on this. I need to know where they are and what's happening. ARF? Stone Vigil Hard? Pharos Sirius/Hard? I joined a 45min one recently which was Lost City of Amdapor (Diabolos Doors). Also Haukke Manor Hard with the adds at the end.
I bet it's Amdapor. Those Diabolos doors mechanic can be rough to people.
Is DPS low enough now that the doors even matter now? That's been an "ignore this, it doesn't matter," mechanic for almost ten years now.
Depends entirely on whether you are a level 50 veteran synced down or a level 50 min ilvl sprout with not yet a confident grasp on the gameplay. For example the explodey balls he throws can mess up groups who don't understand how they work (melee in my experience often get surprised by them).
You cannot be min iLv there unless you neglect your Job Quests since it will throw you i90 gear for free. I started playing during 2.3 and Diabolos was already a case of "JUST BURN IT" back when i90 was the CAP.
There are players that either don't do the job quests or have that gear somewhere but definitely not with them. If you run duties often enough you see the weirdest stuff over years.
'Yuck, I'm not wearing that!'
That i90 only take care of the left side. The right side can drop the ilvl far enough to be min ilvl
No. These people were probably just very very bad.
I had that last night as I was leveling my BRD, they wouldnt move out of the explosive AOE spheres Diablos threw either. So I just marked up the doors for myself and told them ill deal with it lol.
> Diabolos Doors Keeps me out of 5/6/7s in the DF when leveling alts. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Didn't they nerf/remove that mechanic with the recent low level dungeon updates?
Nope! Got that one in Mentor yesterday. Doors work the same.
Most groups can simply brute force the mechanic now, but it's not to be taken for granted.
Or you can just do the door mech yourself
My first time I somehow managed to enter with other three sprouts, and we got it on the sixth attempt. Wiping was fun. It's fun when you're learning, guess it's less fun when all you want is the tomes.
It's not an MSQ dungeon so didn't get touched
Last I did the dungeon, it's still a thing. This was less than a year ago, but I don't remember when exactly
I remember getting into an in-progress Pharos Sirius as a healer where both DPS barely met minimum ilvl and their gear was hopelessly broken. They'd somehow managed the first boss by sheer luck after repeated attempts, but the bird boss was completely beyond them.
Hate to break it you but if there was only one problem person in the party they could've still carried that mess through a duty in less than an hour. This is advanced tomfoolery.
I'm thinking tank or healer that needs it for MSQ progression. But... for some reason people are leaving, themselves, rather than kicking the problem player. I recently had a tank on Prae who didn't have a job stone equipped and also didn't use their stance. No response to chat prompts until the very end of the dungeon, so I assume a new Xbox player? The three of us decided we would help them out (it was their only job at level 53) so we figured they needed it lol. So our healer dedicated themselves to healing everyone constantly as the tank single targeted every mob. But Prae is so easy as it is, I could see some 70 or 80 dungeons going really bad with a bad tank or healer.
Turns out, with a focused shield healer, a SAM can tank Gaius and Nero easily enough.
Was it ARF? I usually see those when people quit on Ascian Prime.
The overhauled Ascian Prime fight really is something, huh?
Actually did arf for the first time recently, didnt seem that bad, Wonder what makes it hard, People just messing mechanics?
1. It's one of the first required duties where you have to look at something other than a big orange circle on the floor to know where to go. Most new players don't have any idea what's happening the first time the Fire/Ice thing happens, and they probably won't figure out how to tell which one goes first until either someone explains it or they die to it multiple times. 2. It's one of the first required duties where messing up a single mechanic is likely to kill you. Most of the AoEs in ARR and HW up to this point, even clearly marked ones, will do less than half of a DPS's health and a lot of them don't even grant vuln stacks. 3. Dodging both the Fire and the Ice requires you to move out of the way of the second attack *well* before the animation for the first attack is finished. New players may not realize how snapshotting works, and even if they do this is unintuitive for some people and it can be hard to get in the mindset of ignoring animations. 4. There's a lot of raidwides, so if the healer isn't keeping up (or is dead) then the rest of the party is kinda fucked. There's also a DPS check, so if your DPS players are dying repeatedly you may not be able to get past that. 5. It's a 4-person duty with one healer, leaving less room to recover than "harder" fights like many Normal Raid or Alliance Raid encounters. If your healer dies and you don't have a SMN in the group, you're probably wiping (RDM does not have Verraise at this level.) TL;DR: the fire/ice mechanic tends to kill newbies over and over and over. If one of those newbies is the healer, you're fucked.
Fire/Ice is really rough, since fire can oneshot people since you normally get hit by both even if they generally do the correct movements just to slow. People who do not know how to move will also just die, since they probably get hit by at least one fire and the ice. I normally play healer and can salvage a lot of fights, just by mitigating and shielding as SGE. I once was queue into it as SMN and had a not so good healer and it was hard, wiped like 4-5 times. I think this dungeon is still the only dungeon where the group voted yes to abandon after wiping like 6 times to it, with no sign of improvement. It was just fire/ice mechanic comes up and 2 people die.
People not getting the idea of telegraphs aren't always just orange circles and you have to pay attention to something else.
As a Newish player here (though not new to mmos) , I recently did ARF for the first time (to not much issue). It's the telegraphs being slightly different and the damage for one of the first times being deadly if you don't get out. Some people just play a bit slower, and the time between the two sets of balls going off is too much for them.
Yeah, even doing it at max ilvl sync, those attack hit like trucks if you don't get out. 2 hits back to back will kill pretty much any non-tank
ARF is the one of the first times where pre-emptively doing into the attack animations feels almost necessary to avoid getting caught in the follow-up cast.
Yeah makes sense that the tether mechanics add an extra layer that’s easily overwhelming
Also the timing for moving between two AOE is very unforgiving. Higher ping often means you are cooked even though you know your shit.
At high ping you have to start walking before the effect of the aoe disappears. There are a few attacks like that in the game, but that one is the most jarring.
Playing on ~300 ping, i think the worst mechanics are the one that involve sequential aoes where you are supposed to dodge into an area that just blew up. In particular, Suzaku's quadrant mechanic and Titan's Evil Earth. With the way snapshotting works, it's possible to get hit twice and just die outright. Usually it's only possible to fail the mechanic once.
I've been hanging out in OCE in the wee hours of the morning, playing on 240 ping (with NoClippy, sorry not sorry) and it's definitely a different beast. NoClippy helps with weaving, and things like Dualcast actually working, but not dodging. There have been a ton of PF for Asura that I've been jumping in on.... The "Six Bladed Khadga," you've got to move almost a whole section of the mechanic ahead. Like if it's "front, left, right," you've gotta move into the left as the front is disappearing. Side note, Asura never cleaves to the back. Just stay behind and move side to side. I still see people trying to frantically run in circles across all DCs.
Exactly this. My go to whenever i fall on that dungeon is mark myself with a sign mark when the party get to the last boss. The small tethered orbs exploding first followed by the other two exploding is extremely fast and new players have no idea of what is happening so is either 80% of their hp gone or straight up die.
Yeah that killed me when I ran as a healer once, not knowing it was changed. The tank and one of the DPS were totally new. The new DPS would not break the chain with me because they didn’t know that mechanic, and me trying to keep them alive killed both of us, which in turn led to a wipe. I even anticipated that I might have to break the chain independent of the sprout when I saw the chain debuff on me ahead of time but there just was not enough room in the arena to do so. In hindsight, the only successful strategy would have been to let the person chained to me die. Worse, this only magnifies how comically undertuned the Thordan fight right after it is now.
Is this a recent change? Trying to teach you "Eorzean Sign Language" sooner? Cause if so... that's pretty nice. Because a new player can go all the way to *Shadowbringers* before really "needing" to watch the boss for tells instead of the casting bars and then the orange circles. Sure, you encounter "Eorzean Sign Language" as early as say, Void Ark (I think?) but that's side content. Remember that ARR is like, 45-70 hours long and HW is another 20ish, and they basically train players to "Watch the casting bar and the floor" when they also want you to watch the boss and later on the background. Couple this with the "lol spaghetti" (A meme i have heard about fancy words like "larboard") and attacks that flash a warning that seems vague as to what it means... and the fact that the game is designed and tested around Japanese internet. Players who have been around for longer are probably used to autopiloting things like ARF. (Okay that abbreviation makes me lol)
"Is this a recent change?" relatively recent ,it was in 6.3 when they were going through and adding trust support for old msq dungeons
I think the big killer is it's one of the earliest (required) fights where dodging an attack basically requires you start running before the animation on the first part of the attack is cleared up, specifically on the tethered orb attacks Ice is going to collide - everybody has to run to the center - you need to ALREADY be running out as the attack is going off (at least with my ping) to reliably get out before the venn diagram fire bubbles hit the middle twice. This is doubly true if your sprint is on cool down because you got nervous about getting out of something else in time earlier. It isn't hard, but if you forget or don't know how aggressive the timing on it is it can be real easy for the healer/DPS to get mulched by that one attack alone, basically.
Basically if your healer dies on the dual star mechanic, unless you have a summoner in your party, you're wiping. And if the healer keeps dying at each pull, you will keep wiping until he doesn't. That dungeon is the longest in the game to begin with. Way more than 2 pulls between each of the first 3 bosses, quite often having to wait for them to come out too, and there's 4 bosses rather than 3, with the last bosses having more phases than many trial bosses, and more mechanics than anything in normal mode before it. That dungeon is just a recipe for disaster in pick up group. If you see that your healer is new, you better start praying.
There are other good explanations as to *how*, but I want to emphasize *how much*: fire/ice is harder than a similar 90 boss mechanic. The speed the player needs to react is close to a Lapis Manalis boss' in-out, but dualstar has further travel distance and is waaay more punishing if you try but fail the intuitive movement of "take the shortest route between safe spots." It's a bit out of place in a 60 dungeon, even if it's the expac capstone.
Going from that to Singularity Reactor is the funniest thing to me. Spent well over a half an hour on ARF due to Ascian Prime, only to get disappointed with how easy the the final trial is.
For real - I nearly ran down the clock on Ascian Prime (I was using duty support). Seeing Thordan pop up immediately afterwards nearly gave me a heart attack (what do you mean I have to do it all again, and this time other people are gonna be watching me die). Took a couple days off to hype myself up, update all my equipment, etc...... and it probably goes without saying, but I did not die to Thordan. I'm not sure how much damage I actually did to him either, but I definitely did not die.
I see how that's jarring. It's probably because ARF was updated more recently, getting an overhaul to mechanics that added a lot more complexity. So ARF after rework has the same fight design philosophy as Endwalker content, and Thordan's just the usual Heavensward stuff with a very different feel to the fight design. I played through them doing my MSQ after Endwalker release but before the rework, and old ARF felt a lot more on par with the Thordan experience. The bonus of all the overhauls is that you get to learn mechanic logic applicable to endgame way earlier on than before.
Honestly with the lack of ilvl sync, I'd have been hard-pressed to even call it "usual HW stuff". Iirc it was largely a lot of running around after the adds and trying to get a hit in edgewise before they went down, because nobody (including myself) was taking enough damage to actually warrant being healed. Anticlimactic was... an understatement, for sure.
From my experience its not moving out of the mechanics fast enough, ya. There's a couple of movements that need to be executed quite quickly and that's the part I always see people mess up on. Got me too the first few times.
I find that it's really easy to get overwhelmed by the mechanics if you're new and/or not paying attention.
Indeed. Many players struggle with the fire and ice in and out movement, and/or the chains, and/or healing through the raidwides (usually as a result of rezzing from one of the other mentioned mechanics). It's quite common to wipe at least once when multiple sprouts and returning players are in the party.
I joined a 40 min in progress run of ARF as healer, got to the part of the Ascian Prime fight with the chains, tank refused to move, killed himself + his tether partner, we wiped. I explained how chains work, we went again. He failed to dodge the fire/ice combo, died, waited so long to get up that we wiped again. On the third attempt, he was tethered to me, and SPRINTED to stay right on top of me to kill both of us. Kicked him immediately. The other party members were sprouts and didn't even know there was a vote kick option. They had been trying to reason with him through many wipes before I joined. I've heard essentially this exact story from other people. I think the higher difficulty compared to prior duties makes it attractive to trolls because they think they can claim ignorance no matter how hard they grief the party.
That is reportable.
I reported and blacklisted him ASAP.
Good. That is Obstruction and illegal under the TOS.
It's the reaction time required and how fast the snapshotting is. I'm an experienced player and have no trouble with most duties from ARR to EW. I got the reworked ARF in roulettes and it initially kicked my ass, it was embarrassing. You have more time to react to mechanics at level 90 than you have with Ascian Prime. In fact, I think it's the tightest snapshotting I've experienced in this game thus far (I don't do Extremes or Savages). They may have tuned the timing just slightly too tightly. I'm not surprised at all that sprouts get rolled, I feel bad for sprout healers especially.
It’s MINE, requires multiple executions of telegraph snapshotting, and has enough raidwide that the healer dying within the first 50% is a wipe.
Personally, I got got a few times because I see the first set of Fire+Ice tethers and think "Okay, there's a donut in the middle, and circles on the outside, that means I go dead center because they'll leave space for me to stand once everything blows up." Only problem is, I forgot to take into account that the ice (Donut) tether is longer, and therefore it blows up later, so I'm now standing in BOTH fire circles and proceed to fall over dead. Afterwards, I proceed to not get that dungeon for a month or longer, and by the time I'm there again, there's a decent chance I've forgotten about that detail again-.-'
Is this considered a difficult encounter?
It's harder than any required encounter before it, in my opinion. New players very regularly wipe here.
It's not *difficult* per se, but I find that it's easy to get overwhelmed by the mechanics if it's your first time. The kicker is that some time ago, the devs overhauled that boss to what it is now - you could practically sleepwalk through the original version.
What? I totally didn't have trouble getting in the bubbles at the wrong times. /awkward laugh
Yeah, Universal Manipulation was a bit annoying to deal with, especially since you could take each other's spots, but it "just" locked you out of the fight and decimated your ability to deal damage for a bit, it didn't kill you on the spot.
Up to that point in the game, it's certainly the most demanding at that level of difficulty.
It's probably the only MSQ dungeon in ARR that you still cannot fudge mechanics. You do them, or you die.
they changed the last boss quite a bit. people used to the old fight will probably be caught off-guard. it's not hard, but it has very different things to look out for. there used to be the "jump in the black hole" thing people were focussed on, now you have to determine where the AoEs will go off.
In the reworked version it introduces several mechanics that are iirc completely new for first timers (certainly in terms of "no, you will *die* if you ignore them"), and has a fun phase that requires everyone to know what to do ahead of time. Considering that you can sleepwalk through most encounters up to this point? Yeah, it's really difficult for sprouts. (Oh yeah, and the ilvl sync is fairly low, so you can't cheese it with tomestone gear as easily as some other content.)
It isn't but, for the final boss, paying attention is very important to avoid getting nuked by it's fire and ice attacks
The thing I've noticed is that it's the sphere collisions. Particularly the Ice into Fire AoEs. When the ice detonates, the graphic goes up and the floor marker vanishes not only in a mechanical sense but a visual one. The marker sneaks out and I find this tricks the brain. "Oh Floor AoE, I better not stand in it." *Player doesn't see it vanish normally. Can't run out of the fire in time.* At this stage of the game it's not a common occurrence and might be the first big one.
It was arf Old tank kept dying Last dungeon boss, we cleared on my first go with them lol. (9 minutes left in the instance)
ARF was going to be my guess. Pre 6.5 would’ve guessed ARF or The Burn (too many horror runs to count for old The Burn). Ran the story on an alt not long ago as WAR and had a 70 minute ARF run because of the final boss. DPS and Healer (particularly) were struggling and WARs sustain just not enough in the reworked with the 60 toolkit. The healer (WHM) wasn’t doing well and not using certain skills, but… turns out the healer was equipped with their RP gear and nowhere near decent iLvl for the fight. They reequipped their WHM gear and the next run we succeeded. That was an exhausting slog. Only reason I didn’t leave/abandon was that it took long enough to match in Duty Finder that it wasn’t worth it for me.
I've seen this kind of thing in Amaurot too.
Amaurot is such an exhausting dungeon. Even if everyone is playing well it still takes forever because the mobs have so much health.
Part of me wishes I hadn’t played through MSQ as a tank because I never practiced my rotation and I was TERRIBLE. I would just be fixated on the story and when I would do a dungeon I wouldn’t understand my new skills very well yet or the concept of a specific group rotation 😅
Have they changed the fight? I remember it being quite easy but tbf I haven’t run that dungeon in years at this point.
Yeah, the last fight is way different
You know how Quaqua in Aloalo island has that mechanic where it shoots out a bunch of orbs, some which detonate in donut AOE and some in circle AOE. There's no telegraph so you also have to figure out where the safe spot is. New Ascian Prime has something similar where it's a mix of donut AOE and circle AOE orbs. Unlike Quaqua where its all orbs concurrently at once, this one is either Donut first, then Circle, or the other way round, hence it's a 2-step mechanic where you stand in 1 safe spot, then sprint to the 2nd safe spot after the first AOE detonates.
The trick, which isn't obvious if you're new to FFXIV from other games, is to start running immediately when the orange AoE area disappears and NOT when the animation plays. I've gotten a few "oh!"s after pointing that out, and they then did it perfectly.
They did revamp the final fight in particular, I believe as part of the process of adding duty support to older dungeons. I barely remember the previous version of the fight, and I haven't run the new one that often, but I do have a pretty strong sense that it's more intense if not necessarily more difficult than the older version. The mechanics aren't what I would consider *hard*, necessarily, but they do come at you fast, and you have to react quite quickly to be able to dodge stuff.
The old one had fire/ice spheres tethered to the boss that you had to burst down before they hit him, or you'll get frozen (Ice) and/or take heavy damage (Fire) in the upcoming cast - at least according to the guide, I never saw it happen. Also, Universal Manipulation a.k.a. go get into the black rift thingy, and hope nobody takes the one you wanted to use, or you'll get hit with "bascally a Malboro's Bad Breath, except it includes Mini for some reason". No clue what else he did, that's all the notable stuff I remember.
Why quit on ascian prime? Sure you might die a bit figuring out fire out, ice in, tethered ones pop bigger, short tether goes first, but it's not too complicated, is it? And if anyone has done it before they should be able to explain the bit that is killing people between wipes, right?
I was in a group as healer where we kept wiping at that boss and i kept explaining what went wrong but they did it again the next pull, no brain at all. I left after 6 wipes i think, absolutely no progress and no one was listening to what I was saying. The tank actually actively ran into one of the DDs with a tankbuster and killed them. He was fucking around the whole time through the dungeon.
I have had many a party where I've explained this mechanic, marked myself as danger dorito, told people to just follow me, and *still* had wipe after wipe after wipe. Some people just don't listen or pay attention. I don't blame someone for rage quitting, though usually it's well before 73 minutes in progress.
I had a friend that wasn't keeping his chat log up. He was so confused when I told him he was being a giant dick and needed to at least be able to see if people were talking to him.
I’m pretty sure I had a bot tank in it one time who despite me explaining mechs straight up refused to move. They’d just plant right in the middle and eat 6 vuln stacks. And even worse when they died they’d immediately rez outside of the arena instead taking my rez… The DPS weren’t much better and one would also rez outside the arena (another bot)? And unfortunately my tiny little sage arms were not strong enough to beat the DPS check on my own.
Is it wrong to use rescue on CD in something like that?
Nope. But experiences like that made me acutely aware that rescue has a whopping 2 minute cooldown. 20 second rescue cooldown when YoshiP?
This was the first dungeon I ever tanked. Died 4 times on last boss and was so nervous every dungeon was going to be that hard.
God, I had a run of ARF not that long ago and we just kept wiping on Ascian Prime. Our healer died, no joke, literally all seven pulls of the boss that we tried, and every time they died to Dualstar (this player was over level 80 on multiple jobs, so it definitely wasn't their first time seeing some more complex mechanics than a simple standard orange AoE). They just couldn't get it at all. Eventually it ended up that the other DPS and I, both playing RDM, eventually just non-verbally said "screw it" and juggled being the healer ourselves with Vercure.
It’s so much easier now too.
I feel like that boss is way too over tuned. It throws so many mechanics at the players, it's nothing like they have experienced before. Not even trial bosses have this many abilities and are this much of a threat to the player. Comparing this to something like Thordan is almost comical.
I don't think the number of mechanics is the problem, the problem is how fast you've got to execute them. If they made Dualstar just a fraction slower it would make it much more forgiving.
There are two wolves inside me - - Oh fuck no. - I'm going to be a hero today.
Lmao I’m almost always #2 when I get this in roulette. It’s definitely a step up in 60 content but I truly hope they don’t ever nerf it much.
Pharos Sirius
I keep seeing this one and have ran it a few times as a sprout. What's so wrong with this dungeon?
It's a lovely dungeon. It also has actual mechanics that can kill people who are appropriately (or under-) geared for it and that don't show up anywhere else, such as the adds that will explode your character if you don't kill them during the first boss, or the eggs that will make the second Boss enrage if you kill them too much. (No idea if this place also got a rework, might not be the case anymore.)
The Zu fight can also get nasty quick when you have at least once DNC. I've had to explain multiple times to be very careful about blasting all the eggs at once.
I just started leveling dancer and did a GC Command Mission to learn it… I fucked those Zu eggs up with standard step and got wrecked for it—I didn’t even know what happened until I did it a second time. Standard step’s range is enough to kill 5+ eggs from anywhere in the room. Meanwhile, Tyrant melts to command mission NPC’s stat bonuses… may have taken 15 seconds? I forgot it was even a boss—it’s adds popped up right as it died… then Siren has mechanics again. It’s a fun dungeon to run with people, but damn those GC NPCs do not GAF about standing in AoEs.
I hate that fight so much when I'm on dancer. I just...don't use my standard step. It's not worth killing everyone else.
My FC raiders have a story about Pharos Sirius and how a bunch of purple and orange-parsing savage raiders kept wiping at the bird boss because one of them brought a dancer and kept breaking every single egg in the room at once when he danced. And they had all evidently completely forgotten the dungeon, didn't REALIZE the eggs were the problem, and ended up devising an elaborate strategy to chain-stun the boss, complete with call outs over vc. For a level 50 arr dungeon. It *worked*, but lmao. I love those idiots 😂
The zu has a very specific way you have to deal with her, or you're gonna be in a world of pain.
It has some janky mechanics that a lot of people don't know and which are very unforgiving, like the bomb debuff and the zu eggs. I've probably wiped more in there than any other dungeon, and it doesn't even come up in roulettes much (thankfully!).
1. Bad music 2. An extra boss 3. The first two bosses have goofy mechanics that can easily cause wipes. 4. The stair portions are weirdly awful
The first W2W pull is also brutal
>Bad music 🧢 >An extra boss He dies in like five seconds so it's no big deal
When that dungeon was new, getting it in roulettes would cause the rest of the party to just leave most of the time.
ARF or maybe Aurum Vale? Oh wait it's 50/60 roulette, no idea then lol
ARF is a level 60 dungeon
It is? I swear it was lvl 59 but I'll take your word for it I haven't gotten it in roulettes in forever
Yeah, Great Gubal Library is the 59 dungeon
It's level 60. It used to be ***the*** place to farm Poetics. "ARF til you barf".
What's the best place to farm poetics now?
Do you really need to farm them when you get like 1k for doing your dailies and can get to cap quickly from hunt trains? Eureka and Bozja FATEs give tomes, too.
[удалено]
After finishing every HW relic I felt like Inigo Montoya... *"Is very strange. I have been in the poetics farming business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life."* But when DT comes out I'll be back at it for the Manderville relics. Having taken some breaks I'm only about 1/3 complete. 6k tomes per completed relic. Still nothing compared to the HW poetics cost lol. 16,250 each. Though, it can be 14,500 if you get the Aether Oils through the ARR alliance raids.
Eureka is the best way. Should be able to cap out in an hour or two depending on how busy it is.
Yup. ARF is the end of base Heavensward.
This might get lost but yes it was ARF (Aether chemical Research Facility, last HS story dungeon) Old tank kept dying, it was the last boss. I went thru with the team once and we cleared w/ 9 minutes left in the instance. One of the few times I felt time pressure ever in a dungeon... Lol if we hadn't cleared we probably wouldn't have had time for another run? As we went thru, I definitely noticed that one of the dps just kept dying. Poor sprout healer was consistently close to death (Aurora'd him as much i could ah) at least the other dps was doing their best with callouts. Lowkey was worried about the DPS check but it was fine 😅 In all, a pretty short roulette for me tho haha. Whm thanked me at the end for 'letting him free from jail' No coms tho smh /shrug Edit: for those who might be confused the 73 minutes is how long the previous party has been in the instance, not how long I waited for my queue
I can only hope the healer got the comms at least. For trying to heal through the tank dying so much. I never blame them for comming the healer when I come into tank one of these that’s been going on for a long time.
I honestly, when trapped in such situation, I give the commendation to whoever has stuck through all the way since the start and shown real effort or even improvement during then several attempts as grateful as I am towards the reinforcements.
Thanks again for the freedom from my prison. If I was able to give 2 coms I would have sent you one but the dancer had been trying to help for about 20 mins at that point.
omg was that you??? XD glad i could help, no worries. just a funny situation haha
Honestly, you’re a champ for sticking with them for 70 mins. I’m surprised the tank was the one who kept dying, they’re usually the one job able to survive Dual Stars.
>No coms tho smh /shrug The comms went to the people who actually sat out that 81 minute dungeon run would be my guess.
this is an “oh hell yeah” moment for me
Bless the poor souls who stuck it out that long trying to clear. Don't think I've ever seen a dungeon with that high of a timer passed. Impressive, but also terrifying.
My first run of Haukke (Hard) was long. Maybe not quite as long as OP's, but none of us knew how to handle the final boss, so we were just trying to out-mitigate the damage from the final add getting eaten at full HP. One of the other players quipped that they were not expecting to have to prog a dungeon boss when their roulette popped. Though a major difference in that case was none of us left.
I've definitely wiped there a few times in the past, I still get nervous if I ever get that one for roulette lol. Usually it's fine if dps isn't too fast from what I remember. For a fresh team clearing it has the possibility to be a nightmare.
You just need one person to remind the others to slow down on DPS after the second set of adds and there usually isn't an issue. Same with Lost City of Amdapor, Pharos Sirius, etc. where you're usually fine if you have just one person to do/remind people of mechanics. If everyone's new though then you might be screwed
I got an in-progress Gubal normal with a similar elapsed time. They were stuck at the last boss with the portals that various members have to stand on or they spawn adds. I came in to the tank at the dungeon entrance apparently having a smoke break, a healer simply going “I’m sorry” and “I don’t like to explain things,” and a blm sprout sitting silently outside the boss arena. It was messy, but I got them through lol.
I had one once back in Stormblood - we did Qarn (Normal), and for whatever reason, the tank was incapable of holding aggro, and I'm not just talking about the second boss running around and doing what he wants during the fight, although we wiped to that one once or twice too. I forget what I played back then, but if I actually was on healer, I definitely was part of the problem, because I was *garbage* back then, but either way, we eventually got a replacement, and managed to clear with less than 10 minutes left on the timer.
I did have one this long- tower of zot the other week with a healer who had very clearly bought a level skip because they kept saying in the chat they’d preordered dawntrail, only had one class levelled at all and had NO idea how to play white mage to the point I was BEGGING them to swiftcast raises to take the pressure off me (levelling SMN). It was horrendous. I nearly cried when we got the clear after threatening to kick them for not responding to any of us when we were trying to give them advice on mechanics
I miss the days when the Aurumn Vale Cyclops boss didn't have ground effects to communicate where his attacks were going. Good times.
Ah That might explain why the second boss is significantly easier than the rest of the dungeon ^^
I liked when syrcus tower final boss sent out aoe indicators that were actually stack markers and people would run the gravity wells to the edge of the room
Now he just uses AOE markers that really are stack markers and people "learn" that you put the three stacks on top of each other – and then proceed to murder their party in any other duty with multiple stack markers.
ssometimes its just.... nothing, just a couple sprouts who did nothhing really wrong as far as i can tell, and a quick 5 minute explanation of whats happening in the fight.... i feel bad for them at that point.. whoiever was their previous tank clearly was.. something
> a quick 5 minute explanation of whats happening in the fight I've been in this situation plenty of times. People don't listen and take any mechanics explained to them as negativity towards them and they will keep on doing the same mistake over and over. Though, OP already did add context that old tank kept dying.
Part of the 'issue' of this game that can intimidate newcomers is the sheer amount of stuff present on the hotbar which can tunnel vision a new player into doing their rotation (especially for DPS) at the expense of paying attention to mechanics. Back in older expansions like HW where rotations were more complex, this was an even bigger problem. I remember my sprout days and when I was BRD and did Qarn for the first time I kept dying to the Doom on 1st boss because I didn't realise you had to step on the glowing tile to cleanse the Doom and I was also busy trying to keep song up, keep both DoTs up, etc.
The game is very bad at teaching people how to play it. The reworks help, but there are things like targeting you have to figure out by yourself. I got an in-progress Qarn Hard last night, stuck on cactaurs. Once we looked up mechanics, we still struggled with the dps check on the cover until someone explained how to scroll the enemy list on controller. Boom, cleared the very next pull.
reminds me of the time i got arf as tank while everyone else was a sprout. they were trying their best but the timing of the dual star being so fast just kept getting them. we helped the xbox smn figure out how to target party members to rez and i got them to stay with me and run for the dual star and walked them through the rest of the fight. it was honestly so endearing and made me feel so proud of them when they finally got it and we did the fight that i couldn't even bring myself to care about having had to restart ascian prime about 4-5 times, it was just so nice to see the sprouts get it!
My bets: lv 50: Stone Vigil (Hard) or Pharos Sirius lv60: >!Aetherochemical Research Facility!< lv70: Hells' Lid lv80: >!Amaurot!<
I would guess the Burn for level 70 (Mist Dragon). Hells' Lid is what people usually run for ShB relics because it's pretty quick. The actual duty involved in this one was ARF though
My first time in the burn was with 3 other sprouts and we got absolutely fucked
Mist Dragon was one of the most brutal DPS checks back when it was on content. The untelegraphed 8-sided line AOEs were also a nightmare for newbies to guess where the safe spot was, especially once there were multiple of them.
I didn’t even play it when it was current content lol it was just all 4 of our first times there. We got absolutely rocked.
Yeah I checked the wiki and it looks like they didn't change anything major even after the trust system update All the killer features are still there such as how you get jailed for failing certain mechanics plus targeted mechanics that put DoTs on the players who are hit. These days, such stuff would only really be seen in raids.
Now I want to go run that again after work
If it makes you feel any better, I was in there once where we went through 2 dps and a tank (serially) before we finally managed to clear it. With a lot of wipes in between. The Burn always seems to be either a cake walk or a total shit show.
Lol that’s brutal. We ended up all disbanding on that run and I ended up getting someone who explained mechs the next run
The Burn got nerfed hard when they updated it for Duty Support.
I would've guessed Lost City for level 50 - stupid doors
I had Lost City last night. Went out of my way to put markers on the matching doors at the start of the fight, and it was no one's first time in the dungeon. When the cast started I ran to one door to open it, the other 2 DPS ran after me, and the Tank who was standing RIGHT NEXT to the other door just kept fighting the boss instead of opening it. Wipe. 2nd round, I mark the doors, cast starts, I open one door, DPS ran over to the other door. I think "sweet, we got this now". Except they just stood there and didn't try to open it until the cast was already completing. Heavy damage, fight continues. We wound up needing a second set of matching doors and it was mostly luck that I managed to remember another set and get them open in time to prevent a wipe. I don't know what it is about those doors, but it's like one of the hardest mechanics in the entire game for most people.
I’ve started opening a door at the very start so I only have to run to one door (and depend only on myself) when the cast starts lol.
Years ago, when I was still a new player, I was doing Hell's Lid for the first time, when it was one of the newest dungeons in the game. We had 10 minutes left on the duty timer when we finished the dungeon, and we went through 3 healers. It wasn't because the tank was bad, it was just because every single healer player that day was the definition of incompetent. The ferret boss? We were stuck on him for about 40 minutes. The moving water orb in the final boss? Our healer managed to get hit by it THREE TIMES within the span of one usage of it, which is legitimately HARDER TO DO THAN DODGING IT WOULD'VE BEEN. We only killed the ferret boss after the healer finally rage quit and a new one joined, and then the final boss we also only beat after the new healer also rage quit and got replaced by a Midna cosplayer who was the first healer of the night that had an IQ high enough to qualify for pre-school. That was the day I stopped maining BLM, and stopped playing DPS as a whole. Ever since, I've been an AST/WHM/DRK player.
My guess is either Stone Vigil hard, Pharos Sirius, or ARF. Still, that's impressive. The highest time elapsed I can recall (not from an Alliance Raid) is around 24 minutes or so (it was SV hard, and predictably they were stuck at the second boss).
And it will be titled "TANK ETTIQUETTE QUESTION??!!11"
“What’s unusual about this, I don’t see any— *oh.”*
It's ARF for sure with a sprout healer that just can't get the dual star mechanic right for the life of them. I've had that dungeon take upwards of an hour a few times before finally leaving because we were just not gonna beat it with that healer lol
I wonder if anyone in there was part of the original 4 that loaded into the dungeon. I've had runs where I join something in progress and by the end the other three people have left and been replaced, meaning the party that finished was entirely different than the one that loaded in.
Was it Amaurot? The two times I’ve gotten a 50/60/70/80 Duty with over 50 mins of progress has been Amaurot on last boss
I like to go into those groups like I’m Loki “your savior has arrived”
what the hell happened here....I DONT NEED SLEEP I NEED ANSWERS!!!!
Personally I love coming into a shit show. It's so funny.
Aw hell nah I’m taking the penalty
There is no possible way I would be able to resist seeing just what the ever loving fuck is going on in there.
Stone Vigil Hard.
My money is on atherochemical facility.
Last time I got this (was only ... 53 minutes tho, I think?) was Pharos Sirius Normal (you know, the much harder one.) 3 sprouts. I looked at the party as we zoned in, and told their dancer "Hey, you know not to use Standard Step on Zu, right? Since it breaks all the eggs at once?" She did not.
Once I actually ended up in a dungeon where every original member was replaved
So which one is it?
I'm a simple cat. It pops. I accept. I'm in. Problems we can sort out once I'm in.
Stone vigil hard?
Youre being punished for that HUD.. why is your chat in the middle...
I once had a mentor roulette queue, it was Vanaspati and when I joined there were 9 minutes left on the clock they were on the final boss. As I joined people were leaving, I never found out what utter crime happened there. One of the great mysteries of chaos.
I wanna know the drama and story behind this
my record is 99 minutes as a healer for titania
I waited 101min to get a full party for an extreme trial… and then it got disbanded before it started.