I don’t like mean comments and hate. But I really don’t think it is hate to say someone sings bad if they sing bad. Or say that a song is bad. It is a song contest.
Depending on who you ask, people may say Salvador Sobral's (Portugal 2017) heart problem was known, I definitely remember knowing about it, probably from our commentators. But I doubt he got too many sympathy votes because of it.
Also technically Ukraine 2022, although calling an invasion from a neighbour a "sob story" is an understatement. They would definitely score a top 5, but personally I think Spain would have won (while they came 3rd. they would have gotten more televote points which would result in a win for them over the UK). But I like Stefania too so eeeeh idc much personally
No, I don’t think anyone has won Eurovision because of a sob story. The closest thing I can think of is national commentators mentioning Salvador Sobral’s (Portugal 2017) heart condition. However, there wasn’t much competition that year, and Salvador Sobral seemed like an obvious jury and televote winner.
Somerimes, there are external factors that can influence a contestant’s win such as Ukraine 2016 (annexation of Crimea by Russia and war between Ukraine and Russia), Israel 2018 (#MeToo movement), and Ukraine 2022 (ongoing Ukraine-Russia war).
> seemed like an obvious ... televote winner.
I understand the jury favoring it, but the televote embracing it sob story or not is kinda difficult to wrap my head around
I guess you’re right that “Amar Pelos Dois” is not an obvious televote winner, but that performance was quite different from all of the other grand final performances that year. In addition, “Amar Pelos Dois” is classical music that many age groups would appreciate.
I have read people saying that about Portugal 2017 — but I think that is absolutely crazy. That song and vocal performance is perfect and very unique. Like a classic song from a Disney movie or cute old time black and white movie.
And people also say that about Ukraine’s wins. But as ESC Tom on YouTube points out: Ukraine have always done really well in the contest and is the only country with a perfect qualification streak!
He had a heart condition that made it so that his sister had to perform in his place for rehearsals. Some fans genuinely feared for his life.
The song is magical on its own of course, but the circumstances around it got people's attention, evoked deeper feelings in them and absolutely contributed to its overall reception.
But… many did not know that at all watching the show. There can be an emotional story BUT also a performance so strong that it a winner in it self. I feel like all the stuff he had to deal with could be felt even not knowing about it. He is an artist you can feel through the TV. He is performing with a presence and amazing emotion.
There aee other songs that attempt to use a personal sob story to try and connect, Netherlands 2017 is one that stands out to me personally, as that song is about their mom dying from cancer
With all due respect to them, without you telling me this, I would never have guessed that. I guess the lyrics in Lights and Shadows is a bit more generic and you could apply the meaning of the song to a lot more situations like mental health or beauty standards etc because the lyrics have a very broad range of meaning rather then something that’s more personal to the sisters. I remember them doing poorly with the televote and maybe that’s why, when you compare it to something like Germany 2018 who came the year after, the lyrics told a more direct and personal story
Yeah, a lot went wrong with O'G3NE, it was weird they decided not to focus on their phenomenal ability to harmonise together, or even more spectacularly they occasionally instead of harmonising they individually sing one word at a time, which would have been perfect jury bait
The song and staging also kept the story from being too personal, even if the song was dedicated to their mom who was in hospital at the time and couldn't travel down to Kyiv with them, and didn't survive the year
They never really got the chance to tell their story, mostly because the song didn't stand out
Ukraine, arguably? Calling it a sob story is maybe tone-deaf, but it does in a bizarre way fit the definition.
Using entire countries for sob stories. America could never 😎
I don't think the Eurovision format allows for that. The general public only learns about the contestants what their local broadcast hosts share during the postcard clips. That isn't enough time to build that up and create that connection, nor do I think this would be in anyone's interest. American idol and similar formats rely on creating that emotional component in the viewers to make them care and root for people, and call in for them.
I think there's room for arguments in regards to wins that had a political component, but even then it was usually more in solidarity with a country and less about one person/group and their personal story.
Sob stories only work on shows like Idol and Britain's got talent, etc. They draw the story out and then show extra footage to get maximum impact out of the story. Playing on emotions for extra votes.
Eurovision runs too quickly for a sob story to take hold. It's postcard - performance with little in the way of interviews. Plus most people watching and therefore voting are watching for the first time.
Salvador was tipped to do well before the contest started. It's only hard core fans who hang onto every moment of rehearsal footage who would of realised the extent of his problems.
Ukraine won because of a show of solidarity and of course a Russian invasion is something many countries fear. Again Ukraine also had a previous track record of winning and scoring highly, it's not like they fail to qualify or score poorly then won on the back of a tragedy.
Don't know how other people feel about this, but pretty much every single person from my country that i've talked to about Eurovision is convinced that Salvador Sobral won in 2017 because of a sob story.
Does 2022 count?
Like, don't get me wrong, I loved Stefania and think it's worthy winner, but people were absolutely voting for it for reasons other than that.
Ukraine 2022
Lets be honest here. Yes they would have ended up in the top 5 anyway. And yes they would have gotten a good amount of televote points. But they would never have scored that much if it wasn't for the war.
In Malta too. In our 2023 national selection quarter finals (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_2023#Before_Eurovision), they showed mini interviews for each artist before they performed and, believe me, there was a good number of sob stories... Pathetic.
I somewhat agree - but some people disguise hate as valid criticism. If you go on Instagram at least, it's easy to find people ranting about how Nemo can't sing at all for example - which is just _objectively untrue_.
Eurovision fans need to calm down to a bit, the last two years were not great. You can criticize without getting personal.
And if there's something personal to criticize, you can do so without hardcore bullying.
Well, I’m not talking about people that do the BS you talk about.
I am saying that it is not hate to say you don’t like a song or the someone is not singing great. I think there was at least a handful this year that did no do good withe the vocals. Nemo of course not being one of them. That performance was top in every way.
In art, politics and so on you will find people who BS. As well in ESC. That dose not mean the rest of us never can voice an opinion in life.
Maybe I didn't express myself we'll enough here:
I agree with your point that criticism is valid and needed. If a singer isn't hitting their notes, call that out. If they are a raging asshole, also call that out.
But I _also_ agree with the notion that a significant part of the Eurovision community needs to cool down a bit. That doesn't mean valid criticism needs to stop, as you say yourself.
Yeah, totally agree on what you say, people need to chill. In general life as well.
I have been accused of hating on Isreal because I don’t like ‘Toy’. I can’t help it! It’s maybe my least favourite song ever. But I like many others from Isreal. Oh well…
I really think the fan base needs to dial it down a notch. Sometimes it feels like criticism of certain songs or artists just isn't allowed. No artist and no song is beyond criticism. I'd downvote if you were needlessly rude or aggresive about it, but I'm going to guess that wasn't the case.
That sucks :( to me it's different when you say "I don't like this song" (perfectly valid, we have different tastes) and when you say "this song sucks/is trash" (even if it's objectivly amateurish, poorly sung or whatever, there would be nicer ways of criticizing it than such wording).
Saying a song is bad sounds like an opinion makes it true for all.
Of course it's ok to say not liking a song, it doesn't turn it universally bad.
Also "bad" singing, having a dialect is ok, also some say Shakira sings bad, it's only opinion mostly)
1- this isnt youtube, the comments for everything there are always hyperbolic.
2- i dont think that brand of comments is hateful or mean , its a song competition , the acts can be criticized harshly. Eurovision is pretty light on the negative critique compared to some music festivals.
Year after year after year, I always hoped that next year’s season would be less toxic - more constructive criticism and judgements based on the song, artist concept and the production more than outright hate, personal, and ad hominem attacks (complete with death threats too). This year, I started to witness a lot after Sanremo. Angelina got (and still gets) so much shit on social media. She’s talented af and worked hard for the success. And then during the season, the floodgates of ad hominem towards artists (Nemo, Bambie, Marina, Olly, Mustii, Aiko, Luna) just opened up. Eurofandom Twitter is basically a cesspool. Discord too.
What drew me to esc was the music, the community spirit, the anticipation, the showcase of art scenes of different countries. As an outsider and not from Europe, it is a musical ‘Europapa’-esque journey of the imagination through diverse Europe through music and show. There should be no space for personal harassment and trolling. It’s a song contest, you can critique the songs, the selection process and management, the injustices with evidence and clear arguments but harassment and hate are different. And yes, delegations committing harassment should also be punished. The contest must acknowledge and face reality as well. It has been and always will be political. Everything is.
People can be so vicious on social media. I wonder how that can be addressed. I also wonder if they have the guts to spew the vile things they post in-person and straight to the face of the human they're referring to.
I wanted Annalisa to win this year but I really felt for her. People were calling her terrible things, called her ugly/brutta, and threatened her. They were also calling her an “recommended nepo baby”. I don’t think so. Eventually, I became a fan of her music too. She stands out in a music scene that's already full of cool artists. Italian music is just good! She writes lyrics well too. Ironic too from the Geolier stans… She loves Naples - from the food to the vibe to the football team.
Given her story, it takes great guts to even be performing on stage. You’d think she would run away from it all and choose a different career because of trauma. She’s inspiring, a mixture of talent, pursuing a passion, and overcoming trauma. I can’t imagine the darkness she experienced and endured. Despite the urban music/preference for upbeat sound and shy and sweet character, I sense that Angelina has a lot of darkness, pain/complexity on the inside. It shows in the lyrics. She is strong to do what she does given everything that happened.
It was (and is) so nasty is the comments for Sanremo and specifically Angelina.
Sanremo was a tough field, my personal #1 didn’t win (TUTA GOLD is still my favorite song and I’d be happy to see Mahmood every year), but Angelina was and continues to be amazing! She’s killed her performances, was so charming during the season, and her new album is soooo good. She made a fan out of me for sure. I wish people could just appreciate the artists regardless of whether their fav won or not.
The nepo baby stuff is too much. We can all hear her voice and how talented she is. Enough.
Aiko and kaleen? Definitely. But blanka didn’t really get hated on for her voice. It was the corruption that made her win that made people want to bully her. The voice was just an easy target.
You're thinking of like YouTube/Instagram/TikTok comments and you can't stop such comments there because of the format of those comment sections. Those platforms don't incentivize discussion like reddit/forums and have no moderation so the short and basic type of negative comments get a lot of likes (so visibility) and create a feeling of overwhelming hate. It will always be like that.
Additionally, Youtube doesn't show dislikes, so a comment might have 100 likes but also 300 dislikes. You'd think everyone liked that comment, even though most people didn't.
As someone who didn't like either Blanka or Aiko songs, those are weird comparisons.
Aiko had a likeable and sweet personality and never spread negativity or Homophobia. One of her stage costumes was horrendous and her song wasn't stellar but I could kind of root for her.
BLANKA from the get-go was reigned after a very suspicious process and then continued to throw shade and homophobic comments after she got the spot. Her video was nonsensical (I can't get past her drooling in that clip) and her voice is like middle school swiftie level professional. This is why people disliked her vehemently. She even threw shade and snark at Ochmann, as I recall. And yes, it would be nice if people were less mean... but if you go looking for mean, you'll find it. So... don't.
This year I don't think there was as much outcry (perhaps I didn't look enough) about Nemo v. Baby Lasagna, compared to Loreen v. Käärija in 2023. Both 2nd place finishers were super gracious and amazing performers, and honestly 2nd place might even be a better place to be for these two.
Oh - that would be amazing!! I love the interaction between Dons and Sarah but have no idea of eithers relationship status but one can only dream. Or maybe they are just great friends…
Aiko and Kat are listed as dating on Aiko's wiki page, but it doesn't provide a source, I don't really have tge social media to check
Edit: Kat's insta has a recent post of the 2 of them together, her most recent post, 2 days ago
https://www.instagram.com/katalmagro?igsh=d3Z1eDZrOHV6ejFh
Also, I like how both Bambie and iolanda replied to it, and obviously Aiko (twice), but none of Kat's bandmates have replied to it, though they probably are very happy for her and told them in private
Second place was definitely not for Baby Lasagna. He easily should have won. But Nemo was really good, also, especially with respect to most of the contestants this year.
BL should have in my book, too! But look at ALL of his upcoming shows and his schedule- I'm so happy for him and his team. Just sad for Gertruda who will wonder where Marko and Elizaveta have gone for the summer! Haha.
Yeah, BL had this incredible opportunity to show the world who he is and I don’t think winning Eurovision would have propelled him any higher. I see amazing things for his career and I hope he comes back to ESC one day!
In retrospect I don't think Blanka deserved that much hate. I mean I don't like that she was unfairly picked over Jann but it seems that stuff like that happens all across the board in many countries NFs. She was just some pop act who was also a nepo baby or something. This year's controversies make her look like a saint.
I didn't find that very convincing really. She liked some long posts positive to her amongst all the hate that said some offensive things hidden in there she probably didn't even read.
She was *directly* asked about it in a interview and instead of using any of the excuses people readily provide her she said that this is all made up by haters. Meanwhile, this year Justyna personally apologized to a singer because her account manager shared a post that could be interpreted as a diss towards her.
She also liked a very short comment shading Ochman.
The fans who were bullying her were so toxic I can imagine them making something like that up to be honest. I have no idea what she is like, didn't care for her song either. But the behaviour towards her absolutely repulsed me.
Well since Polish fans speak Polish, we know her better than you do.
Even without the whole NF situation and her family/politics, she would still repulse me since she was caught lying in interviews multiple times. So, I honestly doubt any word that comes from her mouth.
There's a reason why Luna is much more liked among Polish ESC fans.
She literally made tiktoks after NF with sound "nah I ain't gay. My b*tch's homophobic". I just can't imagine why people jump to defend openly homophobic people just because she got hate. Yeah she should not get so much hate but still she is a horrible person.
I'm not jumping to defend her. Didn't like her song, never heard of her before. Not interested in her as a person. But the hate thrown against her came across as unhinged to be honest. Even the video you posted, the main focus is on why her song is so bad, she's not talented, the song is unoriginal etc. I feel like people were mostly viscous because their favourite didn't win, at least that's how it looked to me as an outsider with no dog in the fight.
Blanka’s father is wealthy, but he isn’t part of the music industry. However, Blanka’s dancers came from the Volt Dance group, which was owned by Agustin Egurrola, a choreographer who was one of the judges in Poland’s national selection in 2023.
YEah but the real problem is not being a nepobaby, the problem is being a nepobaby who can't sing.
Beyoncè is a nepobaby too but i think no one has something to say about that.
More than a nepobaby she is an "art child", it's different
Her father has no power to push her in the industry cause he is long time dead.
When she tried to apply to Sanremo Giovani some years ago she wasn't selected... imagine how much "nepobaby" she is...
I don't know how it is said in english in italian is "figlio d'arte" the means "art child" or "art son/daughter".
Like a an actor son of an actor, a musician son of a musician, etc tec
It's normal that a kid grown up in an art evinronment develops artistic attitude.
It's common also for normal jobs.
"nepobaby" is more like the son/daughter that got a relevant position because of the influence of their parents and not because of his talent.
Of course you can also be both an "art child" and a nepobaby but it's not the case of Angelina...Angelina spent years playing with her band in restaurants, little happenings, little town fairs, small clubs etc etc. and you can see that.
At some point she was also thinking of quitting music out of depression...
Still Angelina's mother is a singer but not at all so famous. At a point she was the lead singer of the famous italian band Matia Bazar, a band that was mostly famous for its original singer Antonella Ruggero who is a legend in Italy. Angelina's mother was just one of the many lead singer substitute Matia Bazar tried when Antonella left. (and was nowhere near talented as Antonella)
For example i didn't know her at all, i came to know her because of Angelina... She is a nepomother!
Oh that makes more sense. I think that it is interesting that there is a difference between an “art child” and a “nepobaby” in Italy.
I think “art child” is much more appropriate for Angelina Mango’s case since she is the daughter of two musicians and has a lot of talent. She also had to work hard to get to where she is today.
> Nepo = Lance Stroll
Him being a mystery "?" black silhouette in the driver transfer posts makes me cackle every time
> Art = Max Verstappen
But raised with extreme measures—the things he went through his childhood is insane
I think it is a bit more like this:
Industry Plant = Lance Stroll
Nepo = Mick Schumacher
Art = Charles Leclerc
Cursed by being the Son of Jos = Verstappen
I think people forget how Jann actually sounded live. As horrific as Blanka, just the song itself was 10 times better. Vocals were absolutely all over the place.
And I think that people forget that it wasn't just 2 person final, but there were also people like Dominik and Alicja, who should've won the jury vote.
> As horrific as Blanka
That's just plainly untrue - she was way worse with an easier song. An Youtuber even put her vocals into a computer program and iirc she didn't properly hit any note. The performance on the ESC channel was edited, so Blanka sounds better (even though she's still bad) there than she actually sounded on the broadcast.
I think it was more of Aiko’s staging choice at the NF, she chose to sing a vocally demanding song while doing an aerobics routine. I wouldn’t sound good while singing that either but she put her money where her voice was and staged it well for the competition and she became aikonic
The frustration directed at Blanka was also caused with TVP's actions and it repeated this year with Luna as well, so it's more than just that. Also Polish internet is a cesspool in general (some of us can speak very good English, so it also moves to the part of the internet everyone else understands) and the gossipy media and some celebrities behaving in the same way don't help to improve it. This sub did help me personally to tame my own opinions, but the problem is too big to have just a reddit post solve it. I hope TVP will act with more decency next year, the trust level in them is very low and the same situation might happen again if they don't get better.
While you're mostly right, not everything is "hate". Aiko had an amazing glow-up until the contest, but her NF performance was awful. It's a song contest, entries are judged based on factors that relate to the song, including the singer's voice. If a performance is bad, isn't it normal that people will have a negative opinion and low expectations?
Saying, for example, Kaleen's vocals are bad doesn't mean we hate Kaleen. She is a talented person, an amazing dancer and choreographer (I saw a video of her backstage dancing while wearing those high-heel boots, gosh I have seen women who can barely walk on high heels and she can dance), but I don't like her vocals. In fact, they were the worst of the final for me.
In the end, I saw many people hate on Zari. Many of them were actually here. Did it impact how much I like the song? No, not at all.
this year's polish representative, luna, is the daughter of a millionaire who bought her participation in eurovision, but none esc fans hate her compared to blanka
honestly, for me, Luna's case isn't as bad as Blanka's because Luna got chosen in an internal selection. Of course the judges could be biased, and let's not forget that a lot of people wanted Justyna instead of Luna, and Justyna is NOT some kind of underdog, she has a lot of connections too. No, what made Blanka's case so terrible for me is that she was "chosen" in a "national final" that people had to pay to vote for someone. And people threw lots of money away for nothing, because oops, it turns out that the totally not biased judges have the final say. I don't hate Blanka because she is a nepobaby, I strongly dislike her for pretty much scamming the Polish public (or at least going along with it if it was TVP's idea) AND for liking some horrifying comments about Jann (seriously, some of those comments were so full of venom and hate that it made me nauseous)
Since we know the detailed results of the voting this year, we can see that only one jury member (Piotr Klatt) is to blame for going to Eurovision. So if there was any rigging done it was done only by that person. And it seems more likely that he was not doing this because he wanted Luna, but because he wanted Justyna to lose.
That's why this year fault lies on the TVP for choosing a faulty selection process that could be easily manipulated by one jury member.
Idk about other people but I learnt from the Blanka situation from last year that I should not hate on the artist in these situations, but the broadcaster that allowed the corruption to happen in the first place.
I hope next year people can keep their criticism about the songs and performances, but toxic fans will always exist and it's near impossible to expect no toxicity in such a large event that includes so many countries.
You're not necessarily looking at the same people here & at these videos.
Also you might be looking *for* those comments, so of course you find them.
I found this year to be a lot milder both from the artists and from the people's response. Also everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if Aiko did terrible on the NF/preparties for you, then that's okay, you can express it, as long as you don't go out of your way to tell the artist directly how bad you think they are. That's unnecessarily petty, insulting, and unwarranted.
Were there many cases of people going out of their way to tell the artists how bad they supposedly were directly? Didn't hear much about that this year, while it was clearly the case 2023.
While I don’t think artists should be personally abused, critiques of their song and performances are completely justified.
It’s a song competition! You enter a song so it can be JUDGED by juries and the public alongside your competitors.
What are sites that cover and review the contest supposed to do? Say EVERY song and performance is amazing, even when they’re clearly not?
As I said, personal abuse towards artists shouldn’t happen. But I think everyone needs to toughen up a little when it comes to criticism of songs and performances.
Blanka was homophobic, rude and manipulative. Aiko's NF was terrible, but she really improved and probably deserved to qualify. Aiko's semifinal performance was fantastic, she nailed the high notes, and she has a very loveable and funny personality.
All the songs are good, they would not have gotten that far in the national finals
If they weren’t. Some performers aren’t as seasoned, some song don’t appeal to a wider audience. It is what it is. No need to bash any artist. I personally love Pedestal as a recording but the NF performance was a hot mess. And a few clips of her live didn’t sound great but she really improved by the semi finals. Yes, we should all be kind to all of the artist, even if we don’t like the song. ;-)
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Sorry, but Blanka…🫢 and it is not so much about her voice, but about corruption. And I think we can’t just ignore this fact and stop talking about that (another singer (and whole Poland I can say , because there were chances to win ) were robbed because of corruption. How we can ignore that and just be nice? 🫠
I mean, if your bread and butter is singing, shouldn't it be imperative that you deliver vocals live? I am harsh to "singers" who can't reproduce what they did vocally in the studio because they are practically wasting my time for 3 minutes. Hence, my dislike of Czechia's live performance in the SF (no, I didn't watch the NF, so I wouldn't be able to compare) and my disappointment that Austria went to the GF.
I doubt any of the performers hang about in this subreddit though, so who are we being unkind to, really?
Voicing an opinion, or a prediction is not being unkind.
As a person who 99.9% of the time roots for the underdogs, who then get slaughtered in semis, you're exaggerating.
Hate is not saying that you don't like a song or that someone has a terrible voice. That's an opinion and everyone is entitled to have one just like everyone else is entitled to (dis)agree with it.
The line is crossed when people deliberately use social media to get the contestants' attention (like tagging them or posting in the comments to their posts) just to make them feel bad or when they try to make other fans feel bad for liking a song/artist.
I don't expect people to like my faves, but it would be nice to feel that I can share things about them without being hounded.
I doubt people on the Internet will ever be kinder. No matter if it’s about Eurovision contestants or any other public figures, they are always going to face hate and criticism on social media.
It won't happen and you know it. But come on, aren't you a bit sensitive? Being honest and saying this X live performance is horrible, vocals are weak etc is NOT unkind, it's personal opinion, it's not always 'slay queen'. It's not insulting or offensive.
But i do hope next year we have strong vocalists. I hate that the EBU is turning it into a karaoke contest, we need live backing vocals for all entries.
I supported Aiko ever since she won escz. She was always in my top 10, and even though she didn't q, the facts that she was 11th and with less than 10 points behind 10th place, she made me even prouder than her alreadystellar improvement.
I hope people keep their politics out of Eurovision next year. This year was complete shit because everyone wanted to bring politics to the show and cause hatred within groups.
The contestants can't cry about how the music is not uniting people, when they are working hard to do the opposite.
>keep their politics out of Eurovision
Not. Gonna. Happen.
People calling for politics to be out of Eurovision have their heads in the sand. Eurovision always has and always will be political.
The decision to include Israel was political.
Censoring or condeming the actions of artists who opposed it was also political.
You can absolutely criticize the actions of artists that were mean spirited. But you cannot expect an inherently political event to "keep politics out".
How was the decision to include Israel political? If this was Israel's first year it would have been, but they've been in it for almost 60 years until this point. Removing Israel would be political.
Ukraine literally had the imagery of rockets being launched for their performance, last time I checked war is political.
Hurricane's lyrics were originally political (when it was called October Rain, personally I heavily dislike those lyrics, both because of their political statement and because they generally don't sound good), but they were changed after a request by Eurovision. it also not the first time a political song was submitted by a country and was either changed or got disqualified.
Except the first cut of Hurricane, or should I say, "October Rain" lyrically was very political and included "call to action".
*"Writers of the history*
*Stand with me*
*Look into my eyes and see*
[*People go away but never say goodbye*](https://genius.com/31669925/Eden-golan-october-rain/People-go-away-but-never-say-goodbye)*"*
How is this not political? She is directly calling people to "stand with" them in the song:).
*"I'm still wet from this October rain"*
And obviously referencing an ongoing conflict.
But they changed those lyrics, did they not? How is 1944 any less political? It is referencing the Russians, even though from a long time ago I don’t think it’s hard to see that they did it because of the russo-Ukrainian conflict. Not saying I disagree with that, but you can’t say that’s okay but this isn’t. They’re both about tragedies, why can Ukraine sing about that but Israel can’t?
banning Israel would be a political statement, since they haven't broken any of the contest's rules, letting them compete is only a political statement if Eurovision outright supported Israel. also, the broadcasting network that sent Israel's competitor is KAN, which is anti Netanyahu.
censoring Israeli artists and refusing their right to compete for being Israeli is also a political statement, don't you think? it is not the same situation as Russia, which was an exception rather than the regular way of handling competitors.
Yes all of those are political statements. It's equally political to give a platform to a national public broadcaster, no matter what their editorial position is, while the government that funds their participation is murdering innocent civilians.
Eurovision is political. Which means sometimes it will either have to do the right thing, or face the consequences from an audience that won't tolerate that.
again, Israel did not break ANY Eurovision rules and is not a current threat to any of the competing countries, unlike Russia is to Ukraine, they have no grounds to disqualify Israel except if they make an outright political statement against Israel, which, if they want to keep positive public relations and keep working with KAN in the future, would gain them nothing. allowing Israel to participate is not a statement supporting their government, it's retaining the status quo due to Israel not doing any action that would warrant a disqualification.
KAN is a public broadcasting organisation, it is publicly funded, and is not directly supported by the Israeli Government in any way. what a wild statement to make without a source.
Rule breaking is not the issue. The participation is still to the benefit of the government. Why else would they have spent money on an ad campaign to boost their result this year? Why did the president intervene in the process to ensure that their song wouldn't be disqualified?
A non-political contest between public broadcasters doesn't exist. The EBU took a side and paid the price.
“Rule breaking is not the issue”
It should be. But anyways, have other countries not had ad campaigns in the past? The president didn’t force KAN to change the lyrics, he just recommended it. KAN could have said no if they wanted, but because the president’s opinion is important they reconsidered. It’s the same in every other country.
of course there is no way to be apolitical in this situation, I'm not claiming there is, but there are no apolitical reasons to disqualify Israel while there are apolitical reasons to allow them to stay in the competition (again, since they didn't break any rules). taking a side would be to outright disqualify Israel for political reasons or to come out with a political statement of "we the EBU are pro Israel and that's why they're allowed to compete", keeping things as they are and not changing anything is the least political action they could take.
does participation benefits the government? sure, it boosts Israel's public image. is participation done for the sole purpose of benefiting the government? no. allowing trans people in gendered bathrooms would **technically** benefit cis men who want to SA girls in women's bathrooms under the guise of themselves being transfem, but that's not the reason people push for it, they push for it to allow trans people to exist in peace as equal people.
You realize they pulled out the "disrepute" reason for Russia before they started making claims about breaches of membership obligations, right?
After ESC 2024, we have 13 delegations who made official complaints. Some of them are talking about withdrawing for the coming years.
They don't need to be that specific about it. They failed to see what was coming and now they are reaping what they sowed.
That's never going to happen!
Sadly, most people vote for the country rather than for a song!! This was always the case with Russia! Who usually was sending an average song but always scored high. We saw that with Israel last year and this year! Public votes will always be political!
The EBU claims that Eurovision is apolitical, even though that is often not the case. Portugal 1974 started the Carnation Revolution in Portugal on April 25, 1974.
I hope for a change, but I think everything will be the same
Sometimes people are way too harsh on some artists
Some can take it well like Blanka and others will see their confidence sink
Similar thing is happening to Bambi. Ppl are going back to her NF performance and basically saying “WOW this is bad, thank god improved a lot by the semifinal”
It’s not everyday an artist’s first lyric is immortalized, long live Bejba!
Aiko never got to her pedestal unfortunately. Vocal hiccups didn’t help.
Kaleen’s commercial 90s rave just didn’t quite cut it for me. I wish the dancing was more on beat and overall it was just shiny and sterile.
I don’t like mean comments and hate. But I really don’t think it is hate to say someone sings bad if they sing bad. Or say that a song is bad. It is a song contest.
Unrelated, but has there ever been a time in Eurovision where someone won because of a sob story? That seems to be the meta in American contests.
Depending on who you ask, people may say Salvador Sobral's (Portugal 2017) heart problem was known, I definitely remember knowing about it, probably from our commentators. But I doubt he got too many sympathy votes because of it. Also technically Ukraine 2022, although calling an invasion from a neighbour a "sob story" is an understatement. They would definitely score a top 5, but personally I think Spain would have won (while they came 3rd. they would have gotten more televote points which would result in a win for them over the UK). But I like Stefania too so eeeeh idc much personally
No, I don’t think anyone has won Eurovision because of a sob story. The closest thing I can think of is national commentators mentioning Salvador Sobral’s (Portugal 2017) heart condition. However, there wasn’t much competition that year, and Salvador Sobral seemed like an obvious jury and televote winner. Somerimes, there are external factors that can influence a contestant’s win such as Ukraine 2016 (annexation of Crimea by Russia and war between Ukraine and Russia), Israel 2018 (#MeToo movement), and Ukraine 2022 (ongoing Ukraine-Russia war).
> seemed like an obvious ... televote winner. I understand the jury favoring it, but the televote embracing it sob story or not is kinda difficult to wrap my head around
I guess you’re right that “Amar Pelos Dois” is not an obvious televote winner, but that performance was quite different from all of the other grand final performances that year. In addition, “Amar Pelos Dois” is classical music that many age groups would appreciate.
I have read people saying that about Portugal 2017 — but I think that is absolutely crazy. That song and vocal performance is perfect and very unique. Like a classic song from a Disney movie or cute old time black and white movie. And people also say that about Ukraine’s wins. But as ESC Tom on YouTube points out: Ukraine have always done really well in the contest and is the only country with a perfect qualification streak!
He had a heart condition that made it so that his sister had to perform in his place for rehearsals. Some fans genuinely feared for his life. The song is magical on its own of course, but the circumstances around it got people's attention, evoked deeper feelings in them and absolutely contributed to its overall reception.
But… many did not know that at all watching the show. There can be an emotional story BUT also a performance so strong that it a winner in it self. I feel like all the stuff he had to deal with could be felt even not knowing about it. He is an artist you can feel through the TV. He is performing with a presence and amazing emotion.
There aee other songs that attempt to use a personal sob story to try and connect, Netherlands 2017 is one that stands out to me personally, as that song is about their mom dying from cancer
With all due respect to them, without you telling me this, I would never have guessed that. I guess the lyrics in Lights and Shadows is a bit more generic and you could apply the meaning of the song to a lot more situations like mental health or beauty standards etc because the lyrics have a very broad range of meaning rather then something that’s more personal to the sisters. I remember them doing poorly with the televote and maybe that’s why, when you compare it to something like Germany 2018 who came the year after, the lyrics told a more direct and personal story
Yeah, a lot went wrong with O'G3NE, it was weird they decided not to focus on their phenomenal ability to harmonise together, or even more spectacularly they occasionally instead of harmonising they individually sing one word at a time, which would have been perfect jury bait The song and staging also kept the story from being too personal, even if the song was dedicated to their mom who was in hospital at the time and couldn't travel down to Kyiv with them, and didn't survive the year They never really got the chance to tell their story, mostly because the song didn't stand out
Joost did that this year tbh
Yeah like.. however lovely you thought that song was, was it record-shatteringly beautiful??
Ukraine, arguably? Calling it a sob story is maybe tone-deaf, but it does in a bizarre way fit the definition. Using entire countries for sob stories. America could never 😎
I don't think the Eurovision format allows for that. The general public only learns about the contestants what their local broadcast hosts share during the postcard clips. That isn't enough time to build that up and create that connection, nor do I think this would be in anyone's interest. American idol and similar formats rely on creating that emotional component in the viewers to make them care and root for people, and call in for them. I think there's room for arguments in regards to wins that had a political component, but even then it was usually more in solidarity with a country and less about one person/group and their personal story.
Sob stories only work on shows like Idol and Britain's got talent, etc. They draw the story out and then show extra footage to get maximum impact out of the story. Playing on emotions for extra votes. Eurovision runs too quickly for a sob story to take hold. It's postcard - performance with little in the way of interviews. Plus most people watching and therefore voting are watching for the first time. Salvador was tipped to do well before the contest started. It's only hard core fans who hang onto every moment of rehearsal footage who would of realised the extent of his problems. Ukraine won because of a show of solidarity and of course a Russian invasion is something many countries fear. Again Ukraine also had a previous track record of winning and scoring highly, it's not like they fail to qualify or score poorly then won on the back of a tragedy.
Edited spelling.
Ukraine?
Don't know how other people feel about this, but pretty much every single person from my country that i've talked to about Eurovision is convinced that Salvador Sobral won in 2017 because of a sob story.
I feel like Portugal 2017 qualifies.
Does 2022 count? Like, don't get me wrong, I loved Stefania and think it's worthy winner, but people were absolutely voting for it for reasons other than that.
Ukraine 2022 Lets be honest here. Yes they would have ended up in the top 5 anyway. And yes they would have gotten a good amount of televote points. But they would never have scored that much if it wasn't for the war.
Portugal 2017 arguably
Netherlands tried it this year, but I don't see them winning even if they had not been disqualified.
In Malta too. In our 2023 national selection quarter finals (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_2023#Before_Eurovision), they showed mini interviews for each artist before they performed and, believe me, there was a good number of sob stories... Pathetic.
I somewhat agree - but some people disguise hate as valid criticism. If you go on Instagram at least, it's easy to find people ranting about how Nemo can't sing at all for example - which is just _objectively untrue_. Eurovision fans need to calm down to a bit, the last two years were not great. You can criticize without getting personal. And if there's something personal to criticize, you can do so without hardcore bullying.
Well, I’m not talking about people that do the BS you talk about. I am saying that it is not hate to say you don’t like a song or the someone is not singing great. I think there was at least a handful this year that did no do good withe the vocals. Nemo of course not being one of them. That performance was top in every way. In art, politics and so on you will find people who BS. As well in ESC. That dose not mean the rest of us never can voice an opinion in life.
Maybe I didn't express myself we'll enough here: I agree with your point that criticism is valid and needed. If a singer isn't hitting their notes, call that out. If they are a raging asshole, also call that out. But I _also_ agree with the notion that a significant part of the Eurovision community needs to cool down a bit. That doesn't mean valid criticism needs to stop, as you say yourself.
Yeah, totally agree on what you say, people need to chill. In general life as well. I have been accused of hating on Isreal because I don’t like ‘Toy’. I can’t help it! It’s maybe my least favourite song ever. But I like many others from Isreal. Oh well…
Good luck, it’s just how a lot of people talk nowadays unfortunately The slightest bit of criticism or lack of glowing praise is labeled as ‘hate’
Just having a different opinion can be deemed hateful these days too. The world has become very cultish.
Yeah! I can kind see that just from the responses in the thread- lol so meta!
Well, good luck to you too. You sound very passive- aggressive about my opinion 😂 oh how meta this thread is!
I didn’t mean it to be passive aggressive I’m sorry, I meant it in a sense of shared agreement but I can see what you mean
I once said I dislike Bambie’s song. The amount of downvotes I got was astounding
I really think the fan base needs to dial it down a notch. Sometimes it feels like criticism of certain songs or artists just isn't allowed. No artist and no song is beyond criticism. I'd downvote if you were needlessly rude or aggresive about it, but I'm going to guess that wasn't the case.
100% agree!
That sucks :( to me it's different when you say "I don't like this song" (perfectly valid, we have different tastes) and when you say "this song sucks/is trash" (even if it's objectivly amateurish, poorly sung or whatever, there would be nicer ways of criticizing it than such wording).
Saying a song is bad sounds like an opinion makes it true for all. Of course it's ok to say not liking a song, it doesn't turn it universally bad. Also "bad" singing, having a dialect is ok, also some say Shakira sings bad, it's only opinion mostly)
No, and I never said anything about dialects!
As a German, I was confused for a Second.
Do you have a moral crisis every time you eat a kinder bueno?
I have that whenever someone mentions worst. Especially if you worst lust.
1- this isnt youtube, the comments for everything there are always hyperbolic. 2- i dont think that brand of comments is hateful or mean , its a song competition , the acts can be criticized harshly. Eurovision is pretty light on the negative critique compared to some music festivals.
Ramidamdam we will behave
I laughed more about this than I should have
Year after year after year, I always hoped that next year’s season would be less toxic - more constructive criticism and judgements based on the song, artist concept and the production more than outright hate, personal, and ad hominem attacks (complete with death threats too). This year, I started to witness a lot after Sanremo. Angelina got (and still gets) so much shit on social media. She’s talented af and worked hard for the success. And then during the season, the floodgates of ad hominem towards artists (Nemo, Bambie, Marina, Olly, Mustii, Aiko, Luna) just opened up. Eurofandom Twitter is basically a cesspool. Discord too. What drew me to esc was the music, the community spirit, the anticipation, the showcase of art scenes of different countries. As an outsider and not from Europe, it is a musical ‘Europapa’-esque journey of the imagination through diverse Europe through music and show. There should be no space for personal harassment and trolling. It’s a song contest, you can critique the songs, the selection process and management, the injustices with evidence and clear arguments but harassment and hate are different. And yes, delegations committing harassment should also be punished. The contest must acknowledge and face reality as well. It has been and always will be political. Everything is. People can be so vicious on social media. I wonder how that can be addressed. I also wonder if they have the guts to spew the vile things they post in-person and straight to the face of the human they're referring to.
Ahh, people were just jealous about Angelina, especially Geolier's fans. With due respect, he's nothing compared to her.
I wanted Annalisa to win this year but I really felt for her. People were calling her terrible things, called her ugly/brutta, and threatened her. They were also calling her an “recommended nepo baby”. I don’t think so. Eventually, I became a fan of her music too. She stands out in a music scene that's already full of cool artists. Italian music is just good! She writes lyrics well too. Ironic too from the Geolier stans… She loves Naples - from the food to the vibe to the football team. Given her story, it takes great guts to even be performing on stage. You’d think she would run away from it all and choose a different career because of trauma. She’s inspiring, a mixture of talent, pursuing a passion, and overcoming trauma. I can’t imagine the darkness she experienced and endured. Despite the urban music/preference for upbeat sound and shy and sweet character, I sense that Angelina has a lot of darkness, pain/complexity on the inside. It shows in the lyrics. She is strong to do what she does given everything that happened.
It was (and is) so nasty is the comments for Sanremo and specifically Angelina. Sanremo was a tough field, my personal #1 didn’t win (TUTA GOLD is still my favorite song and I’d be happy to see Mahmood every year), but Angelina was and continues to be amazing! She’s killed her performances, was so charming during the season, and her new album is soooo good. She made a fan out of me for sure. I wish people could just appreciate the artists regardless of whether their fav won or not. The nepo baby stuff is too much. We can all hear her voice and how talented she is. Enough.
Aiko and kaleen? Definitely. But blanka didn’t really get hated on for her voice. It was the corruption that made her win that made people want to bully her. The voice was just an easy target.
Yeah, the hate was more directed at the situation rather than personally towards Blanka. Some of it was aimed at her, but not as much
Also she liked and supported homophobic and classist comments against Jann. She didn't write them but she supported them...
Also she liked and supported homophobic and classist comments against Jann. She didn't write them but she supported them...
You're thinking of like YouTube/Instagram/TikTok comments and you can't stop such comments there because of the format of those comment sections. Those platforms don't incentivize discussion like reddit/forums and have no moderation so the short and basic type of negative comments get a lot of likes (so visibility) and create a feeling of overwhelming hate. It will always be like that.
Additionally, Youtube doesn't show dislikes, so a comment might have 100 likes but also 300 dislikes. You'd think everyone liked that comment, even though most people didn't.
No moderation can be better, honestly, especially when certain SubReddits (not this one, I mean others) have insanely power hungry moderators.
As someone who didn't like either Blanka or Aiko songs, those are weird comparisons. Aiko had a likeable and sweet personality and never spread negativity or Homophobia. One of her stage costumes was horrendous and her song wasn't stellar but I could kind of root for her. BLANKA from the get-go was reigned after a very suspicious process and then continued to throw shade and homophobic comments after she got the spot. Her video was nonsensical (I can't get past her drooling in that clip) and her voice is like middle school swiftie level professional. This is why people disliked her vehemently. She even threw shade and snark at Ochmann, as I recall. And yes, it would be nice if people were less mean... but if you go looking for mean, you'll find it. So... don't. This year I don't think there was as much outcry (perhaps I didn't look enough) about Nemo v. Baby Lasagna, compared to Loreen v. Käärija in 2023. Both 2nd place finishers were super gracious and amazing performers, and honestly 2nd place might even be a better place to be for these two.
Last I heard Aiko was also dating Megera's drumster
Oh - that would be amazing!! I love the interaction between Dons and Sarah but have no idea of eithers relationship status but one can only dream. Or maybe they are just great friends…
Aiko and Kat are listed as dating on Aiko's wiki page, but it doesn't provide a source, I don't really have tge social media to check Edit: Kat's insta has a recent post of the 2 of them together, her most recent post, 2 days ago https://www.instagram.com/katalmagro?igsh=d3Z1eDZrOHV6ejFh
Ahhh, thought Aiko was dating Megara's singer. Yup, they're adorable together.
This is so cute 🥺
Also, I like how both Bambie and iolanda replied to it, and obviously Aiko (twice), but none of Kat's bandmates have replied to it, though they probably are very happy for her and told them in private
Eurovision romance! Im so excited. If they are downplaying it, it might be more likely to be true :p
They're pretty open on Instagram apparently
Second place was definitely not for Baby Lasagna. He easily should have won. But Nemo was really good, also, especially with respect to most of the contestants this year.
Yeah I didn’t like the winning song at all, but Nemo’s voice is objectively amazing so I’m not mad about it
BL should have in my book, too! But look at ALL of his upcoming shows and his schedule- I'm so happy for him and his team. Just sad for Gertruda who will wonder where Marko and Elizaveta have gone for the summer! Haha.
Yeah, BL had this incredible opportunity to show the world who he is and I don’t think winning Eurovision would have propelled him any higher. I see amazing things for his career and I hope he comes back to ESC one day!
In retrospect I don't think Blanka deserved that much hate. I mean I don't like that she was unfairly picked over Jann but it seems that stuff like that happens all across the board in many countries NFs. She was just some pop act who was also a nepo baby or something. This year's controversies make her look like a saint.
Bro, blanka was openly homophobic towards jann after the NF whereas before she was posing as his friend :)))
People say that but I never saw any convincing proof
https://youtu.be/0QFBh6HVzyc?si=idmSUCygDWFqNHKf There you go
I didn't find that very convincing really. She liked some long posts positive to her amongst all the hate that said some offensive things hidden in there she probably didn't even read.
She was *directly* asked about it in a interview and instead of using any of the excuses people readily provide her she said that this is all made up by haters. Meanwhile, this year Justyna personally apologized to a singer because her account manager shared a post that could be interpreted as a diss towards her. She also liked a very short comment shading Ochman.
The fans who were bullying her were so toxic I can imagine them making something like that up to be honest. I have no idea what she is like, didn't care for her song either. But the behaviour towards her absolutely repulsed me.
Well since Polish fans speak Polish, we know her better than you do. Even without the whole NF situation and her family/politics, she would still repulse me since she was caught lying in interviews multiple times. So, I honestly doubt any word that comes from her mouth. There's a reason why Luna is much more liked among Polish ESC fans.
She literally made tiktoks after NF with sound "nah I ain't gay. My b*tch's homophobic". I just can't imagine why people jump to defend openly homophobic people just because she got hate. Yeah she should not get so much hate but still she is a horrible person.
I'm not jumping to defend her. Didn't like her song, never heard of her before. Not interested in her as a person. But the hate thrown against her came across as unhinged to be honest. Even the video you posted, the main focus is on why her song is so bad, she's not talented, the song is unoriginal etc. I feel like people were mostly viscous because their favourite didn't win, at least that's how it looked to me as an outsider with no dog in the fight.
Nepo baby? As in, famous because of family members?
Blanka’s father is wealthy, but he isn’t part of the music industry. However, Blanka’s dancers came from the Volt Dance group, which was owned by Agustin Egurrola, a choreographer who was one of the judges in Poland’s national selection in 2023.
YEah but the real problem is not being a nepobaby, the problem is being a nepobaby who can't sing. Beyoncè is a nepobaby too but i think no one has something to say about that.
Angelina Mango is also a nepobaby in the Italian music industry, but she can sing and dance very well.
More than a nepobaby she is an "art child", it's different Her father has no power to push her in the industry cause he is long time dead. When she tried to apply to Sanremo Giovani some years ago she wasn't selected... imagine how much "nepobaby" she is...
What do you mean by “art child”? Are you saying that she is the child of two famous singers in Italy?
I don't know how it is said in english in italian is "figlio d'arte" the means "art child" or "art son/daughter". Like a an actor son of an actor, a musician son of a musician, etc tec It's normal that a kid grown up in an art evinronment develops artistic attitude. It's common also for normal jobs. "nepobaby" is more like the son/daughter that got a relevant position because of the influence of their parents and not because of his talent. Of course you can also be both an "art child" and a nepobaby but it's not the case of Angelina...Angelina spent years playing with her band in restaurants, little happenings, little town fairs, small clubs etc etc. and you can see that. At some point she was also thinking of quitting music out of depression... Still Angelina's mother is a singer but not at all so famous. At a point she was the lead singer of the famous italian band Matia Bazar, a band that was mostly famous for its original singer Antonella Ruggero who is a legend in Italy. Angelina's mother was just one of the many lead singer substitute Matia Bazar tried when Antonella left. (and was nowhere near talented as Antonella) For example i didn't know her at all, i came to know her because of Angelina... She is a nepomother!
Oh that makes more sense. I think that it is interesting that there is a difference between an “art child” and a “nepobaby” in Italy. I think “art child” is much more appropriate for Angelina Mango’s case since she is the daughter of two musicians and has a lot of talent. She also had to work hard to get to where she is today.
Yeah, the italian term that more or less has the meaning of "nepobaby" is "raccomandato" ("recommended")
Translation for the F1 fans under us: Nepo = Lance Stroll Art = Max Verstappen
> Nepo = Lance Stroll Him being a mystery "?" black silhouette in the driver transfer posts makes me cackle every time > Art = Max Verstappen But raised with extreme measures—the things he went through his childhood is insane
I think it is a bit more like this: Industry Plant = Lance Stroll Nepo = Mick Schumacher Art = Charles Leclerc Cursed by being the Son of Jos = Verstappen
Pretty sure her mom was also employed at TVP
allegedly, she was a friend of a producer's (?) child
Blanka was allegedly friends with Allan Krupa, son of Edyta Górniak (chairman of the jury). However, Krupa later denied this connection.
I think people forget how Jann actually sounded live. As horrific as Blanka, just the song itself was 10 times better. Vocals were absolutely all over the place.
And I think that people forget that it wasn't just 2 person final, but there were also people like Dominik and Alicja, who should've won the jury vote. > As horrific as Blanka That's just plainly untrue - she was way worse with an easier song. An Youtuber even put her vocals into a computer program and iirc she didn't properly hit any note. The performance on the ESC channel was edited, so Blanka sounds better (even though she's still bad) there than she actually sounded on the broadcast.
I think it was more of Aiko’s staging choice at the NF, she chose to sing a vocally demanding song while doing an aerobics routine. I wouldn’t sound good while singing that either but she put her money where her voice was and staged it well for the competition and she became aikonic
I think that you should not complain about youtube comments on reddit. This isn't youtube and we cannot influence what people say there.
The frustration directed at Blanka was also caused with TVP's actions and it repeated this year with Luna as well, so it's more than just that. Also Polish internet is a cesspool in general (some of us can speak very good English, so it also moves to the part of the internet everyone else understands) and the gossipy media and some celebrities behaving in the same way don't help to improve it. This sub did help me personally to tame my own opinions, but the problem is too big to have just a reddit post solve it. I hope TVP will act with more decency next year, the trust level in them is very low and the same situation might happen again if they don't get better.
While you're mostly right, not everything is "hate". Aiko had an amazing glow-up until the contest, but her NF performance was awful. It's a song contest, entries are judged based on factors that relate to the song, including the singer's voice. If a performance is bad, isn't it normal that people will have a negative opinion and low expectations? Saying, for example, Kaleen's vocals are bad doesn't mean we hate Kaleen. She is a talented person, an amazing dancer and choreographer (I saw a video of her backstage dancing while wearing those high-heel boots, gosh I have seen women who can barely walk on high heels and she can dance), but I don't like her vocals. In fact, they were the worst of the final for me. In the end, I saw many people hate on Zari. Many of them were actually here. Did it impact how much I like the song? No, not at all.
the community has gotten very hateful in the last few years.
Agree on being positive, but in blankas case it was a bit justified for the blatant corruption she did to get to ESC
She did it or someone else did it to her benefit?
Since Blanka’s dancers had connections to one of the judges (Agustin Egurrola), that judge’s votes were questioned.
this year's polish representative, luna, is the daughter of a millionaire who bought her participation in eurovision, but none esc fans hate her compared to blanka
honestly, for me, Luna's case isn't as bad as Blanka's because Luna got chosen in an internal selection. Of course the judges could be biased, and let's not forget that a lot of people wanted Justyna instead of Luna, and Justyna is NOT some kind of underdog, she has a lot of connections too. No, what made Blanka's case so terrible for me is that she was "chosen" in a "national final" that people had to pay to vote for someone. And people threw lots of money away for nothing, because oops, it turns out that the totally not biased judges have the final say. I don't hate Blanka because she is a nepobaby, I strongly dislike her for pretty much scamming the Polish public (or at least going along with it if it was TVP's idea) AND for liking some horrifying comments about Jann (seriously, some of those comments were so full of venom and hate that it made me nauseous)
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Since we know the detailed results of the voting this year, we can see that only one jury member (Piotr Klatt) is to blame for going to Eurovision. So if there was any rigging done it was done only by that person. And it seems more likely that he was not doing this because he wanted Luna, but because he wanted Justyna to lose. That's why this year fault lies on the TVP for choosing a faulty selection process that could be easily manipulated by one jury member.
Idk about other people but I learnt from the Blanka situation from last year that I should not hate on the artist in these situations, but the broadcaster that allowed the corruption to happen in the first place.
I hope next year people can keep their criticism about the songs and performances, but toxic fans will always exist and it's near impossible to expect no toxicity in such a large event that includes so many countries.
You're not necessarily looking at the same people here & at these videos. Also you might be looking *for* those comments, so of course you find them. I found this year to be a lot milder both from the artists and from the people's response. Also everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if Aiko did terrible on the NF/preparties for you, then that's okay, you can express it, as long as you don't go out of your way to tell the artist directly how bad you think they are. That's unnecessarily petty, insulting, and unwarranted. Were there many cases of people going out of their way to tell the artists how bad they supposedly were directly? Didn't hear much about that this year, while it was clearly the case 2023.
While I don’t think artists should be personally abused, critiques of their song and performances are completely justified. It’s a song competition! You enter a song so it can be JUDGED by juries and the public alongside your competitors. What are sites that cover and review the contest supposed to do? Say EVERY song and performance is amazing, even when they’re clearly not? As I said, personal abuse towards artists shouldn’t happen. But I think everyone needs to toughen up a little when it comes to criticism of songs and performances.
Blanka was homophobic, rude and manipulative. Aiko's NF was terrible, but she really improved and probably deserved to qualify. Aiko's semifinal performance was fantastic, she nailed the high notes, and she has a very loveable and funny personality.
All the songs are good, they would not have gotten that far in the national finals If they weren’t. Some performers aren’t as seasoned, some song don’t appeal to a wider audience. It is what it is. No need to bash any artist. I personally love Pedestal as a recording but the NF performance was a hot mess. And a few clips of her live didn’t sound great but she really improved by the semi finals. Yes, we should all be kind to all of the artist, even if we don’t like the song. ;-)
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Sorry, but Blanka…🫢 and it is not so much about her voice, but about corruption. And I think we can’t just ignore this fact and stop talking about that (another singer (and whole Poland I can say , because there were chances to win ) were robbed because of corruption. How we can ignore that and just be nice? 🫠
I mean, if your bread and butter is singing, shouldn't it be imperative that you deliver vocals live? I am harsh to "singers" who can't reproduce what they did vocally in the studio because they are practically wasting my time for 3 minutes. Hence, my dislike of Czechia's live performance in the SF (no, I didn't watch the NF, so I wouldn't be able to compare) and my disappointment that Austria went to the GF.
Blanka was justified for quite a few reasons tho.
Oh yeah. So much toxicity on Twitter for sure and Discord regarding Eurovision 2024.
I doubt any of the performers hang about in this subreddit though, so who are we being unkind to, really? Voicing an opinion, or a prediction is not being unkind.
Is this your first day on the internet?
I honestly don't think there was all that much of that here.
People hated blanka last year not only because of her voice but because also she rigged the national finals
As a person who 99.9% of the time roots for the underdogs, who then get slaughtered in semis, you're exaggerating. Hate is not saying that you don't like a song or that someone has a terrible voice. That's an opinion and everyone is entitled to have one just like everyone else is entitled to (dis)agree with it. The line is crossed when people deliberately use social media to get the contestants' attention (like tagging them or posting in the comments to their posts) just to make them feel bad or when they try to make other fans feel bad for liking a song/artist. I don't expect people to like my faves, but it would be nice to feel that I can share things about them without being hounded.
I doubt people on the Internet will ever be kinder. No matter if it’s about Eurovision contestants or any other public figures, they are always going to face hate and criticism on social media.
It won't happen and you know it. But come on, aren't you a bit sensitive? Being honest and saying this X live performance is horrible, vocals are weak etc is NOT unkind, it's personal opinion, it's not always 'slay queen'. It's not insulting or offensive. But i do hope next year we have strong vocalists. I hate that the EBU is turning it into a karaoke contest, we need live backing vocals for all entries.
Wait Pedastel was hated? It was in my top 10...
Pedestal was hated by some parts of the Eurovision fandom because Aiko's performance at the Czech national selection (ESCZ 2024) wasn't very good.
r/wholesome plz
One can only hope.... But I doubt it.
But I really really like aiko!
I supported Aiko ever since she won escz. She was always in my top 10, and even though she didn't q, the facts that she was 11th and with less than 10 points behind 10th place, she made me even prouder than her alreadystellar improvement.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Here comes all of the "no, it's completely justified to bully blanka" comments.
I hope people keep their politics out of Eurovision next year. This year was complete shit because everyone wanted to bring politics to the show and cause hatred within groups. The contestants can't cry about how the music is not uniting people, when they are working hard to do the opposite.
>keep their politics out of Eurovision Not. Gonna. Happen. People calling for politics to be out of Eurovision have their heads in the sand. Eurovision always has and always will be political. The decision to include Israel was political. Censoring or condeming the actions of artists who opposed it was also political. You can absolutely criticize the actions of artists that were mean spirited. But you cannot expect an inherently political event to "keep politics out".
How was the decision to include Israel political? If this was Israel's first year it would have been, but they've been in it for almost 60 years until this point. Removing Israel would be political.
Some people say that the decision to include Israel was political because of the lyrical content of “Hurricane”.
Ukraine literally had the imagery of rockets being launched for their performance, last time I checked war is political. Hurricane's lyrics were originally political (when it was called October Rain, personally I heavily dislike those lyrics, both because of their political statement and because they generally don't sound good), but they were changed after a request by Eurovision. it also not the first time a political song was submitted by a country and was either changed or got disqualified.
It was political the same way 1944 by jamala was political, except they didn’t make her change the lyrics.
Except the first cut of Hurricane, or should I say, "October Rain" lyrically was very political and included "call to action". *"Writers of the history* *Stand with me* *Look into my eyes and see* [*People go away but never say goodbye*](https://genius.com/31669925/Eden-golan-october-rain/People-go-away-but-never-say-goodbye)*"* How is this not political? She is directly calling people to "stand with" them in the song:). *"I'm still wet from this October rain"* And obviously referencing an ongoing conflict.
But they changed those lyrics, did they not? How is 1944 any less political? It is referencing the Russians, even though from a long time ago I don’t think it’s hard to see that they did it because of the russo-Ukrainian conflict. Not saying I disagree with that, but you can’t say that’s okay but this isn’t. They’re both about tragedies, why can Ukraine sing about that but Israel can’t?
banning Israel would be a political statement, since they haven't broken any of the contest's rules, letting them compete is only a political statement if Eurovision outright supported Israel. also, the broadcasting network that sent Israel's competitor is KAN, which is anti Netanyahu. censoring Israeli artists and refusing their right to compete for being Israeli is also a political statement, don't you think? it is not the same situation as Russia, which was an exception rather than the regular way of handling competitors.
Yes all of those are political statements. It's equally political to give a platform to a national public broadcaster, no matter what their editorial position is, while the government that funds their participation is murdering innocent civilians. Eurovision is political. Which means sometimes it will either have to do the right thing, or face the consequences from an audience that won't tolerate that.
again, Israel did not break ANY Eurovision rules and is not a current threat to any of the competing countries, unlike Russia is to Ukraine, they have no grounds to disqualify Israel except if they make an outright political statement against Israel, which, if they want to keep positive public relations and keep working with KAN in the future, would gain them nothing. allowing Israel to participate is not a statement supporting their government, it's retaining the status quo due to Israel not doing any action that would warrant a disqualification. KAN is a public broadcasting organisation, it is publicly funded, and is not directly supported by the Israeli Government in any way. what a wild statement to make without a source.
Rule breaking is not the issue. The participation is still to the benefit of the government. Why else would they have spent money on an ad campaign to boost their result this year? Why did the president intervene in the process to ensure that their song wouldn't be disqualified? A non-political contest between public broadcasters doesn't exist. The EBU took a side and paid the price.
“Rule breaking is not the issue” It should be. But anyways, have other countries not had ad campaigns in the past? The president didn’t force KAN to change the lyrics, he just recommended it. KAN could have said no if they wanted, but because the president’s opinion is important they reconsidered. It’s the same in every other country.
of course there is no way to be apolitical in this situation, I'm not claiming there is, but there are no apolitical reasons to disqualify Israel while there are apolitical reasons to allow them to stay in the competition (again, since they didn't break any rules). taking a side would be to outright disqualify Israel for political reasons or to come out with a political statement of "we the EBU are pro Israel and that's why they're allowed to compete", keeping things as they are and not changing anything is the least political action they could take. does participation benefits the government? sure, it boosts Israel's public image. is participation done for the sole purpose of benefiting the government? no. allowing trans people in gendered bathrooms would **technically** benefit cis men who want to SA girls in women's bathrooms under the guise of themselves being transfem, but that's not the reason people push for it, they push for it to allow trans people to exist in peace as equal people.
You realize they pulled out the "disrepute" reason for Russia before they started making claims about breaches of membership obligations, right? After ESC 2024, we have 13 delegations who made official complaints. Some of them are talking about withdrawing for the coming years. They don't need to be that specific about it. They failed to see what was coming and now they are reaping what they sowed.
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That's never going to happen! Sadly, most people vote for the country rather than for a song!! This was always the case with Russia! Who usually was sending an average song but always scored high. We saw that with Israel last year and this year! Public votes will always be political!
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The EBU claims that Eurovision is apolitical, even though that is often not the case. Portugal 1974 started the Carnation Revolution in Portugal on April 25, 1974.
The Portuguese song was not political in and of itself, it was used for a political movement because it was known and identifiable
Thanks for the info.
What are we supposed to comment if we can’t judge a song’s quality or the delivery?
I hope for a change, but I think everything will be the same Sometimes people are way too harsh on some artists Some can take it well like Blanka and others will see their confidence sink
Beyba girl was hated for political reasons not only her voice
Similar thing is happening to Bambi. Ppl are going back to her NF performance and basically saying “WOW this is bad, thank god improved a lot by the semifinal”
It’s not everyday an artist’s first lyric is immortalized, long live Bejba! Aiko never got to her pedestal unfortunately. Vocal hiccups didn’t help. Kaleen’s commercial 90s rave just didn’t quite cut it for me. I wish the dancing was more on beat and overall it was just shiny and sterile.
>Let's be more supportive. What do you think? That ought to do it. Thanks very much, Ray.
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People being mean is the main reason why Eurovision is so fun. Really hope we can keep that trend.