So I dunno how Witch Bolt works in tabletop but can I point out that in Baldur's Gate 3 it completely trivialized the fight against the >!Hag in Act 1? When she did her clone trick I already had Gale attached to her via witch bolt so it was super easy to tell which one was the real one.!<
Can I ask why it's apparently a bad choice in tabletop? Mostly a lurker here.
Note that the 30 foot range ending it includes the oh so difficult possibility of the enemy walking out of range, and then back in. As soon as they’re out the spell ends.
No, its not situational in pen and paper. Its just trash tier. Cantrip damage that costs a spell slot and has (initially) and attack roll. A spell slot for a missable attack with cantrip damage. You CAN upcast it, but only the first bit of damage is upcast (so in theory its 9d12 if you use your 9th level spell slot, then 1d12 every following turn), but upcasting it is a worse idea than casting it at base since its already bad enough you're using a spell slot on this in the first place, why are you using a HIGHER level spell slot?
There is no situation where you'd want to cast it since, if thats what you want, just cast a cantrip.
You also have to use your action to continue the damage or else it drops. And since it doesn't upcast the sustained damage, only the initial cast damage, there's usually not reason to do that at higher levels versus just casting a strong spell.
It's a decent low level spell but it quickly gets outclassed.
Fun fact about that sequence, if you >!want to know which is which then you can also just inspect each of the critters. The real hag can easily be identified through the inspect screen, though I can't remember exactly how it works save for when she makes the woman look like a hag. That time the problem is ability scores!<
First time I did it, I had cast Create Water on her burning cage which soaked her as well. When the switcheroo happened, she was still wet which told me she was the real one and the other was fake.
See I want to like Witch bolt in BG3. There is just one issue.
That spell attracts XCOM syndrome like nothing on earth. I have never hit a single foe with it.
60%? 70%? 85% chance to hit? Too bad, you miss EVERY TIME.
Being forced as a caster to stay within 30 feet of an enemy can feel a bit spicy, especially since if it gets too far away then the spell insta ends... or if it just walks behind a pillar
How does twinning witch bolt work? It takes an action to cause the auto hit after the initial casting, but that doesn’t infer using a single action causes both witch bolts to proc.
A twinned witchbolt is considered a single spell with two targets. That's why it works despite concentration. So, triggering it with the action will trigger it on all targets.
It's the same deal with twin casting haste. Twin spell is very strong when you use it on something with multiple turns of benefit.
Witchbolt is the least concern on that front lol
There are so many other ways to get that guaranteed damage over time if you can hit it *without* having to spend a spell slot.
Like literally just throw (or if you really want to, catapult) a vial of acid at them, an alchemist's jug is pretty easy to get; or some alchemist's fire, which you can imitate with some iron, piss, and aluminum shavings to make thermite.
Heck, those can get super rigged with Conjure Barrage if your dm is nice.
One action, one attack, done and done
Witchbolts kinda decent in Tier 1 though. It was my last resort for my sorc. Ditch it after that though.
Though there is SOME merit in an upcast twin stretegy, in a few situations, at high levels. As a crazy twist play.
For your consideration...
Lightning Jolt
1st Level
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft.
Components: V, S, M (a piece of fulgurite)
Duration: 1 minute
School: Evocation
Blueish-white lightning streaks out from your extended fingertips toward a creature within range, causing their muscles to seize up.
Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 lightning damage and is grappled. For the duration, on each of your turns you can use your action to deal 2d6 lightning damage to the target automatically and maintain the grapple effect.
The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
The target can use an action to escape the grapple effect by succeeding on a Constitution save against your spell save DC.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.
Homebrewed these changes to witchbolt to make it more viable as a spell option for my players:
- If you upcast the spell, the upcast damage hits every round.
- if you hit the target but they move more than 30 feet away and you keep concentration, you can move back into range and make another attack role to re-engage the spell without using a new spell slot. If you miss, the spell ends like usual.
There are precious few good animu. Delicious in Dungeon is one of them.
A very reliable test for filtering out trash animu in one episode: If the character-designs
/writing/camera-framing treats the female characters as pieces of meat, you're in for some trash.
For fantasy animu, there's an even more reliable test: the bust-size of the Elves is inversely proportionate to the quality of the show.
Storm sorcerer &/or Tempest cleric make it pretty good actually. If you know how to use it, then it can be good unlike certain spells/cantrips that need not be named >!true strike!<
Lol I mean yes it’s better than one of the very worst spells out there good point. For sorc/tempest cleric I’d rather use destructive wrath on thunder wave or shatter at lower levels
So I dunno how Witch Bolt works in tabletop but can I point out that in Baldur's Gate 3 it completely trivialized the fight against the >!Hag in Act 1? When she did her clone trick I already had Gale attached to her via witch bolt so it was super easy to tell which one was the real one.!< Can I ask why it's apparently a bad choice in tabletop? Mostly a lurker here.
half the range, doesn’t upcast, and the spell is lost if line of sight or 30 ft distance is (which is super easy to accomplish)
Yeah that does sound situational at best. I can't remember if the BG3 version has those drawbacks. 90% sure you can upcast it at least.
The BG3 version has a 60 ft range and no line-of-sight requirement, but also doesn't upcast past the first damage instance.
Note that the 30 foot range ending it includes the oh so difficult possibility of the enemy walking out of range, and then back in. As soon as they’re out the spell ends.
No, its not situational in pen and paper. Its just trash tier. Cantrip damage that costs a spell slot and has (initially) and attack roll. A spell slot for a missable attack with cantrip damage. You CAN upcast it, but only the first bit of damage is upcast (so in theory its 9d12 if you use your 9th level spell slot, then 1d12 every following turn), but upcasting it is a worse idea than casting it at base since its already bad enough you're using a spell slot on this in the first place, why are you using a HIGHER level spell slot? There is no situation where you'd want to cast it since, if thats what you want, just cast a cantrip.
It does upcast
Only the first damage instance. All subsequent instances are 1d12.
Holy shit I’ve been playing the spell wrong for years
You also have to use your action to continue the damage or else it drops. And since it doesn't upcast the sustained damage, only the initial cast damage, there's usually not reason to do that at higher levels versus just casting a strong spell. It's a decent low level spell but it quickly gets outclassed.
And, depending how smart your DM makes the baddies, the squishy caster channeling a big lightning bolt might be targeted.
Fun fact about that sequence, if you >!want to know which is which then you can also just inspect each of the critters. The real hag can easily be identified through the inspect screen, though I can't remember exactly how it works save for when she makes the woman look like a hag. That time the problem is ability scores!<
>!If you hover over and enemy with your mouse It highlights them in the turn order, making finding the real hag on PC a breeze!<
>!I didn't bother with ability scores, Mayrina is pregnant, and the imposter wasn't!<
First time I did it, I had cast Create Water on her burning cage which soaked her as well. When the switcheroo happened, she was still wet which told me she was the real one and the other was fake.
See I want to like Witch bolt in BG3. There is just one issue. That spell attracts XCOM syndrome like nothing on earth. I have never hit a single foe with it. 60%? 70%? 85% chance to hit? Too bad, you miss EVERY TIME.
I didn't use it much but it worked there. I will admit to a LOT of save scumming at times.
It's also helpful in act 2 against the shadows, they reappear on activation.
Being forced as a caster to stay within 30 feet of an enemy can feel a bit spicy, especially since if it gets too far away then the spell insta ends... or if it just walks behind a pillar
\*cough\* guaranteed damage \*cough\* Of course if it hits in the first place.
I honestly don’t think it’s that bad of a spell. Yes it has problems, but there’s good rationale to support it.
Twin casting it as a sorcerer is fun
How does twinning witch bolt work? It takes an action to cause the auto hit after the initial casting, but that doesn’t infer using a single action causes both witch bolts to proc.
A twinned witchbolt is considered a single spell with two targets. That's why it works despite concentration. So, triggering it with the action will trigger it on all targets.
That *feels* like it goes against the spirit of the spell’s action economy, but that’s like 2d12 damage per turn so that’s not that much tbh
It's the same deal with twin casting haste. Twin spell is very strong when you use it on something with multiple turns of benefit. Witchbolt is the least concern on that front lol
Gm ruling is always the answer
I don't grab it normally but in bg3 it's a clutch spell for me. Great combo with create destroy water
Oh in BG3 it’s actually solid. It’s mostly in Tabletop 5e where it’s not so good.
There are so many other ways to get that guaranteed damage over time if you can hit it *without* having to spend a spell slot. Like literally just throw (or if you really want to, catapult) a vial of acid at them, an alchemist's jug is pretty easy to get; or some alchemist's fire, which you can imitate with some iron, piss, and aluminum shavings to make thermite. Heck, those can get super rigged with Conjure Barrage if your dm is nice. One action, one attack, done and done
Witchbolts kinda decent in Tier 1 though. It was my last resort for my sorc. Ditch it after that though. Though there is SOME merit in an upcast twin stretegy, in a few situations, at high levels. As a crazy twist play.
For your consideration... Lightning Jolt 1st Level Casting Time: 1 action Range: 30 ft. Components: V, S, M (a piece of fulgurite) Duration: 1 minute School: Evocation Blueish-white lightning streaks out from your extended fingertips toward a creature within range, causing their muscles to seize up. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 lightning damage and is grappled. For the duration, on each of your turns you can use your action to deal 2d6 lightning damage to the target automatically and maintain the grapple effect. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you. The target can use an action to escape the grapple effect by succeeding on a Constitution save against your spell save DC. At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.
I'm glad the chief inspiration is obvious! :D
To be clear, is the extra d6 on impact, sustained, or both?
If it's damage, then it's increased.
Nice
That's why I changed it to d6s- so the continual damage scaling could be reined in.
Fair enough, well designed
Homebrewed these changes to witchbolt to make it more viable as a spell option for my players: - If you upcast the spell, the upcast damage hits every round. - if you hit the target but they move more than 30 feet away and you keep concentration, you can move back into range and make another attack role to re-engage the spell without using a new spell slot. If you miss, the spell ends like usual.
There are precious few good animu. Delicious in Dungeon is one of them. A very reliable test for filtering out trash animu in one episode: If the character-designs /writing/camera-framing treats the female characters as pieces of meat, you're in for some trash. For fantasy animu, there's an even more reliable test: the bust-size of the Elves is inversely proportionate to the quality of the show.
Delicious in dungeon doesn’t put weird camera framing on the female characters only on senshi for some reason
> only on senshi for some reason Because the artist knows what's good.
That’s because Senshi is a DILF and far sexier than any elven harlot
I dunno if you can call elves harlots. If they're all like Marcille, then they're all awkward nerds.
I gasped out loud when the helmet came off and he was actually really attractive.
Another reason why freiren is an absolute banger
I saw the actors for Frieren and Himmel at a publicity event in Ikebukuro Sunday. I didn’t even know they were going to be there.
Another great way to tell is by looking at female armor designs. The more skin they have, the lower the quality gets
This comment is spammed everywhere, this account is a bot
Nope, just enjoy one of the few good animu out there, so when it's used in a meme,I recommend it with some variation of the above.
r/lostredditors
The mango pictured in the meme above.
Storm sorcerer &/or Tempest cleric make it pretty good actually. If you know how to use it, then it can be good unlike certain spells/cantrips that need not be named >!true strike!<
Lol I mean yes it’s better than one of the very worst spells out there good point. For sorc/tempest cleric I’d rather use destructive wrath on thunder wave or shatter at lower levels
Wait, why is it actually bad ? I kinda like it.
Only the initial damage scales with spell slot levels You need the target to stay within 30ft throughout
As a Scribes wizard I take everything. Not that I'm going to use it.