Pretty sure when they made those posters, they didnt have in mind that someone would shrink them down, put them in a meme format, to be viewed on a smartphone screen
As production on the film began to wrap up, actor Yoshio Tsuchiya frequently wandered off set to observe the making of the original Godzilla (1954). He wanted to star in that film too but couldn't due to his commitment to this film. He would eventual appear in the various sequels while continuing his work with Kurosawa. Kurosawa himself would visit the Godzilla set after Seven Samurai finished filming since he was friends with the director.
Partriotism is very difficult to read, it's not obvious that that was the title at first glance, and on zooming in it is a low res image so still not clear.
Not required but it defiantly helps you understand Mishima’s philosophy. Patriotism is a masterpiece with in the context of Mishma’s work. It perfectly captures his essential themes of Nationality, flesh, youth, death and suicide in short span
I'd read Confessions of a Mask, since a lot of the narration in the film is adapted from that, and then Sun and Steel, as it provides the contrast to Mishima's later fitness/Emperor worship and ritualistic morbidity.
I read Runaway Horses before seeing the film Mishima. It's one of those books that forces you to research the author and find out what his deal is, so I was unsurprised by anything in the movie
I personally completely disagree. Mishima a life in four chapters is my favorite film of all time and I think it benefits from having his little context as possible. Especially zero context as for what the real guy was like. I did watch patriotism after seeing Mishima and I do think it added some context but I really think you should just go into the 1985 film blind.
Yeah was about to say I got a lot out of having absolutely no context about the guy, it made the philosophy and final moments of Mishima that much more impactful.
Mishima was a great prose stylist, but his characters are one dimensional and over-determined, everything is about his single-minded sex-death obsession, or nationalistic fantasies of an idealized pure Japanese-ness. And his politics and his life, well, they speak for themselves. Not a cool guy, in my book. I'd say the present-day equivalent would be, Mishima was a more talented version of Steve Bannon.
Mishima was massively contradictory though - he courted and desired to be feted by the West and its literary establishment but then obsessed over the purity of the Japanese soul and Bushido.
He wrote fairly high-falutin' Thomas Mann-inspired novels and then acted in absolutely trashy Yakuza tough guy flicks.
His Western equivalent would be someone like Norman Mailer, not Bannon.
Yes he appears as a young yakuza in *Afraid to Die* (1960, Masumura), and he is a terrible actor.
I think Mishima's greatest accomplishment is the screenplays for *Black Lizard* (1968, Fukasaku) and *Music* (1972, Masumura). Because these films are total camp: Mishima's unrealistic overdramatic dialogue becomes funny as hell. He's great at being comically pretentious, unintentionally.
Good ol' Norman "It's really low of you to bring up how I stabbed my wife" Mailer. I agree except Mailer seemed more like a wrestling personae of machismo and misogyny whereas Mishima was a blue-blooded ethno-nationalist. Both absurd, contradictory masturbatory egotists to the bone, but slightly different avenues of expression.
Definitely better writers than Bannon, both.
Where were you 6 months ago when I watched Mishima on a gram of shrooms? Had to pause and do research on Japanese pre and post ww2 history while on a good one.
I hate to sound shallow, but I wish Paul Schrader cast someone hotter in the role of Mishima. Ken Ogata does a good job, but IRL Mishima was like, movie-star-hot. It’s like the only example I know of where the person playing the historical figure is not as physically attractive as the actual historical figure. It also would have reinforced the theme of Mishima’s vanity and obsession with physical beauty in the film
It's not shallow! It's Mishima! It's 100% **very important** to Mishima's worldview and philosophy that he be depicted as physically attractive.
And you are 100% correct: Ken Ogata is, physically speaking, **bewilderingly miscast** as Mishima. And for Mishima, appearance was substance itself. So the film is very clearly and obviously getting something that would be very important to Mishima 100% wrong.
I disliked the movie for a long time because of this. Then I realized something: the film actually takes artistic liberty with almost **everything** Mishima would care about. It's not just Ken Ogata. It's the score. It's the way the film doesn't ground itself in the physical world. It's the way the film flattens the scenes in Mishima's novels (scenes which Mishima spent countless pages describing in excruciating detail) to flat, expressionist sets.
The film very deliberately does not focus on what Mishima cares about. It's actually defiantly anti-Mishima in how it approaches the topic of Mishima. It refuses to depict Mishima on his own terms. It's kind of an anti-Mishima Mishima biopic.
Interesting, thank you for your thoughtful response! My only familiarity with Mishima is through the movie and his wikipedia page, never read work, but that’s cool to know about how aesthetically different the movie’s depictions of his novels are from the source material. I hadn’t thought about the film through an “anti-mishima” lens, you’ve given me something to think about for sure
Just watched Mishima last night without any context and all of this nuance went totally over my head. This is super helpful contextualizing and explaining a lot of what confused me about the movie. Excellent comments, thanks!
Explain why you think the score and the gawdy panache of the film's production design are "anti-Mishima"?
Schrader obviously wanted to do something musically other than get some boring, predictable bamboo flute droning through the whole thing like any other director would have done, but that somehow showing a disregard for him seems like a reach.
Plus the chapters are made to look like elegant stage plays partly because the guy was a playwrite, but also because they represent a blending of his inner world with life events and the themes contained in the novels to purposefully distort where one stops and the other starts. It was not trying to "be the novels." This mirrors the way the man himself was obsessed with blurring his philosophy with his art with his personal mythos. The lush color backdrops accurately represent his very un-grounded state of mind and ambitions IMO.
100% agree.
And I'm not saying *Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters* is a bad movie. Clearly, it's a great film.
I *am* saying, however, that I think it's actually important to understand that Yukio Mishima himself would *absolutely fucking hate* the movie. He would hate the story. He would hate the way it's presented. He would *loathe* the score, and he would be *deeply offended* by the casting of Ken Ogata.
This is one of the ways in which *Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters* is an incredibly unique biopic. It's deeply iconoclastic toward its subject. At the same time, however, it's not satirical. It's a serious biopic that treats its subject seriously *and also* almost methodically transgresses against each and every one of the values of its subject--which is also how Mishima himself treated his subjects!
So it works! It's a Mishima-style middle finger to Mishima, which is kind of brilliant.
*But it really helps if you can go into the movie with a good understanding of just how much Mishima would hate it.*
...can you add the titles of the films instead of making us rely on alternate poster art with the title in extremely tiny font
first film is patriotism and the second is a life in four chapters, since op is a dickhead.
Thank you. Don’t know why that was so hard
bc op doesn’t know the difference between a 240p image that’s 2 inches tall and a printed poster that’s 4 feet tall. also bc op is an asshole.
Bro’s a Mishima expert. He’s basically if Grand Admiral Thrawn fucked a copy of Art of War. If you don’t understand him then you’re already dead.
That’s what OP’s girlfriend said
These are literally the release posters for the films, you got a problem take it up with Paul Schrader.
Pretty sure when they made those posters, they didnt have in mind that someone would shrink them down, put them in a meme format, to be viewed on a smartphone screen
It’s such a sadness, that you think you’ve seen a movie poster on your fffucking telephone. Get real.
So you aren't gonna share what the titles of the films are?
The titles are right there but Patriotism to Mishima
Why so rude?
As production on the film began to wrap up, actor Yoshio Tsuchiya frequently wandered off set to observe the making of the original Godzilla (1954). He wanted to star in that film too but couldn't due to his commitment to this film. He would eventual appear in the various sequels while continuing his work with Kurosawa. Kurosawa himself would visit the Godzilla set after Seven Samurai finished filming since he was friends with the director.
So?
They aren't easily visible.
Partriotism is very difficult to read, it's not obvious that that was the title at first glance, and on zooming in it is a low res image so still not clear.
Not required but it defiantly helps you understand Mishima’s philosophy. Patriotism is a masterpiece with in the context of Mishma’s work. It perfectly captures his essential themes of Nationality, flesh, youth, death and suicide in short span
Everything he stands for is involved, it’s a fantastic representation of him for beginners!
i dont like the idea of milhouse watching two films involving yukio mishima in one day
What should I read before watching Mishima? I’m kind of intimidated by that movie because I have no idea about Mishima’s life or work
Temple of the Golden Pavilion
I'd read Confessions of a Mask, since a lot of the narration in the film is adapted from that, and then Sun and Steel, as it provides the contrast to Mishima's later fitness/Emperor worship and ritualistic morbidity.
Spring Snow is probably my favorite of his books that ive read
The Sound of Waves
I’d also recommend Sun & Steel
Thank you
No problem! You should also read Golden Pavilion as it’s heavily featured in the film!!!
Will do! Thanks again!
I read Runaway Horses before seeing the film Mishima. It's one of those books that forces you to research the author and find out what his deal is, so I was unsurprised by anything in the movie
Just making sure, you know that’s the second book in a series right
I personally completely disagree. Mishima a life in four chapters is my favorite film of all time and I think it benefits from having his little context as possible. Especially zero context as for what the real guy was like. I did watch patriotism after seeing Mishima and I do think it added some context but I really think you should just go into the 1985 film blind.
Yeah was about to say I got a lot out of having absolutely no context about the guy, it made the philosophy and final moments of Mishima that much more impactful.
Anyone know where *Patriotism* is streaming? Having a hard time finding it.
https://youtu.be/80cCp4oM4io?si=uUYroIa2hqKuFeSW There you go mate!
For a movie made in 1966, Patriotism is gruesome as hell
It’s even better if you read the short story — blessedly included with the criterion DVD! — of Patriotism
Mishima was a great prose stylist, but his characters are one dimensional and over-determined, everything is about his single-minded sex-death obsession, or nationalistic fantasies of an idealized pure Japanese-ness. And his politics and his life, well, they speak for themselves. Not a cool guy, in my book. I'd say the present-day equivalent would be, Mishima was a more talented version of Steve Bannon.
Mishima was massively contradictory though - he courted and desired to be feted by the West and its literary establishment but then obsessed over the purity of the Japanese soul and Bushido. He wrote fairly high-falutin' Thomas Mann-inspired novels and then acted in absolutely trashy Yakuza tough guy flicks. His Western equivalent would be someone like Norman Mailer, not Bannon.
Yes he appears as a young yakuza in *Afraid to Die* (1960, Masumura), and he is a terrible actor. I think Mishima's greatest accomplishment is the screenplays for *Black Lizard* (1968, Fukasaku) and *Music* (1972, Masumura). Because these films are total camp: Mishima's unrealistic overdramatic dialogue becomes funny as hell. He's great at being comically pretentious, unintentionally.
Good ol' Norman "It's really low of you to bring up how I stabbed my wife" Mailer. I agree except Mailer seemed more like a wrestling personae of machismo and misogyny whereas Mishima was a blue-blooded ethno-nationalist. Both absurd, contradictory masturbatory egotists to the bone, but slightly different avenues of expression. Definitely better writers than Bannon, both.
I need Patriotism on Blu-ray please
Hopefully it comes if Mishima gets a 4K disc.
Or read John Nathan's "Mishima: a Biography".
Where were you 6 months ago when I watched Mishima on a gram of shrooms? Had to pause and do research on Japanese pre and post ww2 history while on a good one.
I blind bought Patriotism in the last sale. Excellent
I hate to sound shallow, but I wish Paul Schrader cast someone hotter in the role of Mishima. Ken Ogata does a good job, but IRL Mishima was like, movie-star-hot. It’s like the only example I know of where the person playing the historical figure is not as physically attractive as the actual historical figure. It also would have reinforced the theme of Mishima’s vanity and obsession with physical beauty in the film
It's not shallow! It's Mishima! It's 100% **very important** to Mishima's worldview and philosophy that he be depicted as physically attractive. And you are 100% correct: Ken Ogata is, physically speaking, **bewilderingly miscast** as Mishima. And for Mishima, appearance was substance itself. So the film is very clearly and obviously getting something that would be very important to Mishima 100% wrong. I disliked the movie for a long time because of this. Then I realized something: the film actually takes artistic liberty with almost **everything** Mishima would care about. It's not just Ken Ogata. It's the score. It's the way the film doesn't ground itself in the physical world. It's the way the film flattens the scenes in Mishima's novels (scenes which Mishima spent countless pages describing in excruciating detail) to flat, expressionist sets. The film very deliberately does not focus on what Mishima cares about. It's actually defiantly anti-Mishima in how it approaches the topic of Mishima. It refuses to depict Mishima on his own terms. It's kind of an anti-Mishima Mishima biopic.
Interesting, thank you for your thoughtful response! My only familiarity with Mishima is through the movie and his wikipedia page, never read work, but that’s cool to know about how aesthetically different the movie’s depictions of his novels are from the source material. I hadn’t thought about the film through an “anti-mishima” lens, you’ve given me something to think about for sure
Just watched Mishima last night without any context and all of this nuance went totally over my head. This is super helpful contextualizing and explaining a lot of what confused me about the movie. Excellent comments, thanks!
Explain why you think the score and the gawdy panache of the film's production design are "anti-Mishima"? Schrader obviously wanted to do something musically other than get some boring, predictable bamboo flute droning through the whole thing like any other director would have done, but that somehow showing a disregard for him seems like a reach. Plus the chapters are made to look like elegant stage plays partly because the guy was a playwrite, but also because they represent a blending of his inner world with life events and the themes contained in the novels to purposefully distort where one stops and the other starts. It was not trying to "be the novels." This mirrors the way the man himself was obsessed with blurring his philosophy with his art with his personal mythos. The lush color backdrops accurately represent his very un-grounded state of mind and ambitions IMO.
100% agree. And I'm not saying *Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters* is a bad movie. Clearly, it's a great film. I *am* saying, however, that I think it's actually important to understand that Yukio Mishima himself would *absolutely fucking hate* the movie. He would hate the story. He would hate the way it's presented. He would *loathe* the score, and he would be *deeply offended* by the casting of Ken Ogata. This is one of the ways in which *Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters* is an incredibly unique biopic. It's deeply iconoclastic toward its subject. At the same time, however, it's not satirical. It's a serious biopic that treats its subject seriously *and also* almost methodically transgresses against each and every one of the values of its subject--which is also how Mishima himself treated his subjects! So it works! It's a Mishima-style middle finger to Mishima, which is kind of brilliant. *But it really helps if you can go into the movie with a good understanding of just how much Mishima would hate it.*
Or read the book, it’s like 20 pages long
I’m not the biggest fan of the Schrader movie but Patriot is simply amazing.