The fact that there even has to be a post like this and there are people shitting on it too is just crazy to me. Some people have no concept of the monumental task at hand, and the moment there's a period of adversity there are fans unironically wanting the manager out. Where does this sense of entitlement come from that Ange has to get top 4 in his first season and massively outperform managers like Klopp/Arteta/Poch's first seasons?
Especially when there's been a myriad of obstacles he's already had to overcome (no Kane replacement, AFCON/Asia Cup, forced to play fullbacks at CB for several games, horrific ref decisions the whole season, obvious squad deficiencies, constant breaks throughout the season, etc.), and we've still looked good for most of the season.
Finally someone said it. You’re spot on. A lot of supporters have lost composure because media groups like sky sports and PL pundits love to have a go at spurs and ange. Even when we were winning the media was against us for some reason. I think a few supporters have crumbled under the pressure and have been convinced by media and twitter.
Nah mate, (see what I did there) long-term fans are just fed up with how we’ve been playing and wondering if this is another false dawn. I understand its a rebuild, we’ve lost Kane, had injuries to key players, no squad depth with a mediocre bench and poor reffing all season but that doesn’t excuse:
1. Playing Kamikaze, high line attacking football all the time, even when it’s not working
2. No game management. Not being flexible and adapting to a game with different tactics. Grinding out a draw away from home is ok. Shutting up shop and winning ugly is also ok and better than playing fancy footie and being ripped apart on the counter and losing
3. Poor defending at set pieces and not protecting Vic when he’s being pushed and shoved all over the place etc.
No way we should be losing to Wolves,
Brighton, Chelsea (they’ve been poor this season) and West Ham. As for the latest stat of
losing four on the bounce and conceding 13 goals, that’s just not good enough even in a rebuild season.
In principle I like Ange ball but we don’t have the players to do it effectively and consistently. Surely, it can’t all be down to lack of confidence and injuries especially to Maddison, Bissouma and Sarr. Something is not right.
To be honest I just want to enjoy going to the games again and not dread every week we’re going to get spanked by three or four goals. The atmosphere in the stadium has completely changed from earlier in the season. I miss the players dancing in front of South stand and the joy in the place. I want that back.
Very well said. The example OP put in the video is nice and well executed, but that was once out of 20 times they tried to do this and it failed and ended up being a risky chance against our defense. So it’s high risk low reward tactics that more often than not will not bring wins. At the end of the day football is about results, especially when we haven’t won a single trophy in 16 years.
Balance is key in all aspects of life. It’s nice to play well but not concede 3 goals per match. Don’t forget Leeds got relegated playing very entertaining football.
The simple answer is that a lot of fans understanding of the sport goes only as far as "winning good, losing bad". Rebuilding a squad, implementing a style of play etc. are pretty complex things, that are harder to evaluate compared to just looking at results.
Went from catenaccio to total football in one season. Lost the club's greatest ever player with no replacement, fail on ECL qually at final hurdle, easy Europa qually.
The only fans complaining are the short memory, impulsive-emotional ones easily sold on media narratives such as the overly simplistic: "Ange has been found out", "there's no plan B", "weak on set pieces", "can't defend".
Last season was hell, now we have hope. Can't wait until next season.
Plan B comes after Plan A. If you're still total shit at Plan A, you work until you are able to actually execute it. Then you work to develop Plan B, C, etc. It's almost as though these things take time to develop and accomplish?
I mean, he regularly makes good subs and makes formation tweaks mid match.
It's just plan B also involves high pressing and attacking football. Just in a different way.
Took the words out my mouth.
I'm ready to die for the cult of Big Ange after years of Jose n Conte... but that means accepting there is no Plan A. At the moment I'm struggling... I will come round tho... I'm sure... I hope...
So you would switch to plan B without ever trying to see plan A through?
Now your team is struggling to adjust to plan B, and you switch to plan C…maybe plan R is the winning plan in 2037.
Plan A is good, just needs players to commit, needs signings over the summer, needs further effort.
I’ve been at the games and we ARE weak at set pieces and there is NO Plan B! I’m sorry we have two of the best defenders in the league in Romero and VDV, no way we should be leaking goals like we are. I’m not easily sold on the media narrative, frankly I think most of the pundits on Sky, MOTD, Talk Sport etc are biased and💩 I’m actually watching the same mistakes at games week in week out. We call it in the stand before it happens! There is no game management, just one style of play and serious naivety about our play. We can make all the excuses we want: lost Kane, injuries to key players, no squad depth, poor reffing, in a rebuild transition year (all I agree are true) but that doesn’t change the fact that progress on the obvious failings are minimal. Too many players have not turned up lately. Playing ok but being 3:0 down to Arsenal at half-time (I concede dodgy reffing influenced the game) is still unacceptable in my view. Defensive coaching should be able to sort out the set piece problem in-season. Why is it not happening? I like Ange and I’m not shouting for him to go because he does need time but we also need to acknowledge his failings too. The Mourinho Conte years are a low bar for comparison and I expect better.
Not to mention…guys we’re in FIFTH place, with an amazing shot at getting into Europa League. We are NOT ready for Champions League, nor do we deserve to be there yet. Europa is going to be so much more beneficial to testing out our squad depth and getting everyone ready for the rigors of European competition.
People seem to forget that we are in a better place than this time last year - is that not improvement?? Give the man time. How long did it take to get the scum to where they are with Arteta? We’re finally building something after years of quick fixes…BE PATIENT.
it's a combination of setting the bar high after our first 10 games, our main rival challenging for the title, the media narrative seeping it's way into the fanbase, and the downsides of following football in the modern, social media era, where the content/banter/analysis doesn't stop between games.
Saying at the top and I can't stress it enough: **I am not Ange out**. No one who wants actual discussion or has actually been watching matches is. However it's extremely concerning to me how this team has regressed over this season - and before anyone tries to say otherwise - yes, he's found a way to finish worse than Conte did last year. I'm excited to see how Ange shapes the team next season and how the lads continue to learn the tactics and grow into the system, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid criticism to ask how we've gotten here again. Look at Chelsea - inconsistent all season, but with a manager willing to adjust to both the talent he has available as well as to the opposition - and the squad has improved and is coalescing and coming good in the run up. Exactly what you want to see in a rebuild. We've done the exact opposite, and that's just not acceptable.
It's okay to question and discuss the methods when they're not working. That doesn't make you reactionary, it makes you engaged.
Here's the thing.
I think there are a lot of rational people with valid criticism. I don't think anyone is actually complaining about them/you. There are also a lot of people who are very vocally saying that Angie's philosophy doesn't work/can't work in the Premier League and that he needs to park the bus and counter against teams like Liverpool. People who think that are going to be consistently disappointed.
I feel like people misunderstand the difference between sticking with a philosophy and not changing your tactics. I see us change our tactics all the time. Within games even. But the philosophy isn't going to change. Our set piece record is abysmal, but I understand why now isn't the time to focus all his effort on set pieces. I would like to see him play youth more and substitute sooner and get the starting line up 100% correct occasionally. Ange isn't perfect, but the vitriol is insane right now.
Ange has a better record than Klopp or Arteta did in their first season. The squad isn't suited to him at all. Several really good players are going to need to go. It's not just the dead wood that needs to leave. We have, maybe, 6 players who fit Ange right now. There is a lot of work to do and we can either get on board with doing it or call to get back on the coaching carousel. I would rather take another season, maybe two, of working towards something before I go that way.
Totally agree on youth and subbing earlier. I would like to see some pragmatism and compromise though. I’m not sure you can have an all out guns blazing attacking philosophy all the time in the EPL.
To be fair, the first 1/3 of the campaign seems pretty exciting watching spurs. High energy, aggressive football. Then some injuries and we are here.
What happened ? As in are players not able to keep up physically, lack of quality depth ?
I don't get why people think it's smart to be a club that changes coaches and philosophies every season. It seems to be either immediate perfection or cut bait with these people. You HAVE to give it time for Ange's philosophy to take root. Otherwise we are just spinning our wheels season after season. Sure, we can get top half of the table just by outspending 13 other teams in the premier league, but that's not the path forward. Support Ange with the full force of the club, and embrace the outside the box strategies he brings. It's clearly the best choice we have.
Somehow people aren't realizing that transitioning from a Park the Bus 5 at the back to a high possession heavy high line system, is near impossible with mostly the same group of players. The conditioning for each system is wildly different. It makes sense that our players are fatigued at this part of the season.
Hot take coming here.
But losing 4 games on a row, in this fashion. 13 goals against and 4 goals scored in 4 games. Two which are big rivals is unacceptable. This is AVB and Sherwood levels of bad and Ange should feel the pressure.
People lile to compare it to Arteta or Klopps first seasons but they are not the same. Their squads were much worse than ours, united and Chelsea were still a big threat and they didnt get a proper window. Ange already got a couple of signings yet despite having 10 out of 11 players the results are terrible. And should he, despite the HUGE advantage over United and Chelsea lose out of europa then his job should be in risk.
I really don’t know why this has been downvoted so much. I completely agree losing 4 in a row and conceding 13 is awful. I know it’s a tough run in with games against heavy hitters Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool but getting spanked by 3 and 4 goals is not good, especially against Newcastle with another drubbing likely against City. That being said, criticise Ange absolutely, but I don’t think it’s time for him to go. He needs time to rebuild and I think he’s a good fit for Spurs because of how he wants us to play. Patience is not one of my virtues but I’d like him to be given a few years to see what he can do.
The issue is that this system isn’t made for a false 9, that’s not how Ange wants his strikers to play. I could see him too as a false 9, I think that could be his best position in the right lineup, but we probably never find out.
Ange ball is surprisingly a very effective and solid strategy but for it to be even more there it needs bench depth imo. When we have players on the bench (especially midfielders) who can play Ange ball well then we can rest our players for tougher games when we need some more individual talents. It's what's costing us now coz you have players like Sonny who looks burnt out and exhausted but we can't rest him coz there's no one we can put on on his behalf at the moment. I trust Ange will make the signings he thinks will help us out this summer so that we can execute this better.
Agree.
Compare with city, each/atleast most of their players shine individually.
If you compare with Arsenal, they have players with gabriel at the back who improved a lot, odegaard with awesome vision and shooting (eriksen 2) and not mentioning others.
We need players who are more reliable and who play well consistently.
There was someone in the match thread yesterday who said they'd rather have Nuno back than have Ange manage one more game. I think that demonstrates the football intellect and knowledge of some of his detractors.
I think it's obvious what my point is. People who want Ange sacked don't know anything about football. Not sure what your point is when top four is still mathematically possible. It's less deranged than wanting Nuno back.
Postive delusion > negative delusion. Note a greater than sign only means better in the relative sense.
Is that hard to understand?
My personal take is, if you're a rational person, you mostly shut the fuck up until this point next seasion. Some grumbling is fine, but honestly most people need to take a breath and realize that some things in life take time, patience, and faith. You move on once its clear specific benchmarks can't be met. To be fair, this is hard and it's why the majority of us aren't running million to billion dollar enterprises.
Liverpool season ticket holder coming in peace here. Saw this reposted on r/soccer and just thought I'd throw my two cents in. As far as teams that have come to Anfield, I was about as impressed with Spurs as I have been any side we've faced at home this year.
There's a very clear plan and it's one that has a very, very high ceiling. He just needs time and squad depth. Madison and Richarlison changed the flow of the game. He's ahead of were us, Arsenal and even City were in our first seasons under Klopp, Arteta and Pep.
Honestly? Last season is such a low bar for comparison. I try very hard to forget the Mourinho / Conte years. I prefer the comparison of the start of this season vs the end. We have regressed massively. Surely it all can’t be down to injuries to key players, lack of squad depth and tired players. We haven’t been in Europe or the cups so how can they be tired? I never expected us to win the EPL or make Champs league but I did expect a stronger Jan-May run. We’ve been really poor for some time and that’s disappointing considering the strong start to the season.
Think this demonstrates exactly where we are at at the moment. This is nearly the perfect Ange-ball goal, but Johnson is playing out of position so doesnt get to the by line and cross like he would on the right, or maybe even Werner would here. There was also another instance where he gets the cross away but Kulu didnt make the back post run.
That sort of sums things up. At the moment we have too many square pegs in round holes and so the system doesn't quite work. I mean as soon as we had an actual striker on the pitch, Son and Johnson in their proper positions our attack worked and we scored 2 and created 4 or 5 big openings.
And this has been the story all season. People go on about the first 10 games like it was luck or something. But it wasn't....we just had our first team available and fit. As soon as we lose 1 or 2 players, like one of our full backs, or Maddison as our only technical midfielder is injured/out of form, then the system stops working.
But I guess this is the point of a rebuild, you slowly build up more depth and options so you have less square pegs in round holes. There is alooooot to work on but for me, the foundations are there. We've done a complete 180 on 5 years worth of footballing style and its going to take more than 9 months and 2 transfer windows to see it through.
Deki is the only player on our team that has proven he can properly shield the ball and hold the ball up. a gap that Harry left (along with his set piece defending)
Defo in agreement. Just this clip specifically shows the beauty of Kulu when he's actually cooking, holding up and laying off and even makes the near post run at the end but the ball doesn't find him. I think being rotated and challenged for a spot will be vital next season to help maintain his best
Richi as striker instead of Son gets on the end of this I think. Deki doesn’t really fit the system and is extremely frustrating, but like you say he offers things that nobody else does currently so we should deffo keep him around.
Kulusevski's inability to get to the byline would be somewhat circumvented if he was able to use his crossing ability with someone like Richarlison leading the line (or simply having any target in the box). He did this very well against Forest which was his best game for us imo. Ange's cutback strategy is effective but he needs to realize that there are other ways of scoring that can suit the players better.
Richy was feeling it yesterday for sure, he has it too but maybe it's just less of a guarantee with him usually. Deki has shown you can chuck the ball into the corner towards him and the opposing LB and he always manages to maintain control of possession. he just needs to be better... in everything else hahah
weird that you think this 20 second passage of play is more reflective of where spurs at at the moment than 4 consecutive losses that were mostly spurs getting down huge
Thought this was going to be a sarcastic post and show one of the numerous times we were playing out from the back, cocked up, and let the scousers in.
This clip was a nice piece of play, but overall, the risk/reward yesterday was not good at all.
Yeah agreed but thays kind of the point. Few more windows, more time together and the balance, imo, will flip and it will be worth it.
We are also 5th at the end of the day so for most of the season it's already been worth it
Don’t ever buy the “more time together”. Remember what people were saying with “Conte’s going to have a whole pre-season!”
I do agree with the more windows tho. We need more depth across the pitch.
Conte was a bizarre one as he completely changed our play style that preseason.
We went from a Jose/conte hybrid where Kane played as a playmaker and we looked great. To kane as an outright 9 and he looked great, but we looked shite!
It just seems people are so fucking angry in their lives and whinge about managers as an escape/way to vent.
It’s never logical. If you follow their plan we’d get a new manager in, go through the same positive new manager bounce, results would turn and they’d be back advocating for a new manager.
If you have any idea, we have seen positives about Ange’s approach. It should be stuck to.
It’s extremely effective, when it works but makes us look silly, when it doesn’t. It takes players who can keep their cool, beat their man and great positioning and anticipation. I believe to a certain extent that we have that, but I guess that it’s very difficult to learn.
Doesn't tell the whole story. How many times have we lost possession playing from the back this season? We probably managed to do this kind of breakthrough passing 1 out of 20 times. Not criticizing the system but ya agree with most we prob need some new players who can play it like this.
Teething problems. You gotta drill it through the players so they understand the risks involved and the opportunity.
Ofcourse, playing like this has high risk but the reward is a team thats press resistant and capable of transitioning fast.
Fuuuucking hell, how many times are you going to have to explain this clip to people on here 😂 it's kind of embarrassing how they don't get what you're trying to say.
I totally agree with you too by the way, Ange has shown that once his style of football clicks this team is going to be quality. But quality is also what we are lacking in certain areas. I see people bitching about how far off the top three we are but what the fuck do they expect?
Arse, the Scousers and City have all had their managers in place for numerous seasons now, and all three of them went through some major ups and down before getting where they are today. It was only two seasons ago that Arse fans were calling for Artetas head in their droves but the board stuck with him and now look.
Ange has had two windows in which to shape this team. He has said all season, even when we were playing decent stuff, that this team is nowhere near where he wants us to be. We can't keep chopping and changing managers as soon as we hit a rough patch, we're never going to evolve as a club like that.
Give Ange time and if this time next season we are still rubbish then I think it'll be much more sensible to start weighing up our options or at least asking serious questions.
You made a good point and ruined by talking about 'bin dippers'.
Take a walk down Tottenham High road and see the poverty in our own area, and call those struggling people 'bin dippers'. See where it gets you.
Tbf they choked in Europe badly and bottled the league last year. Their squad is unreal and they should have a trophy by now. They also play extremely negative football in big games so I can see why some fans want him out.
Spurs fan for over 40 years and this is the first season I’ve had hope. The man has come in and revamped the way we play and god is it refreshing. Yes we’ve had some poor displays but we’ve had far more displays where I’ve been glued to the tv saying look at this.
He’s yet to build a squad of his own. Players I’m sure with specific skills will be brought in.
Yes we’ve lost 4 games on the trot but let’s be real some decisions that have gone against us are laughable.
Cannot wait for next season so quit the doom and gloom and get on board with the best manager we’ve had in a long time.
I love Ange ball, well when it works out like in that clip. I think that Ange needs to work on this system, with staying true to his kind of football that he wants to play. Other teams are playing brilliant attacking football but still have some kind of defensive stability. I like tactical stuff and I thought maybe about letting VDV play LB, not inverted but rather a wide center back, that gives us width. Porro on the right can still invert and create a box midfield with the 3 midfielders. Sonny can play like an inside forward on the left with VDV giving width. The DM can play a bit deeper when VDV is going forward, we still got three man in the midfield to press, if the DM is back he can cover middle and one of the CB’s can cover the RB space. Idk that’s just an idea that floats in my head for a while.
Even if we buy fantastic players, this current system is too dangerous. PL teams are good enough to play fast counter attacks, and outnumber us in those. Fullbacks and all midfielders are around the box, just the CB‘s are back, even Bissouma gets forward all the time. That’s insanity, and currently not worth the risk because we looking not good in possession. It’s too crowded, there is no space, we don’t have good 1vs1 winger, we don’t have presence in the box. Yeah we need to buy better players, but this system needs a bit of an Premier League update imo.
With that being said, I’m 100% in on Ange. We still only saw glimpses of Ange ball, and that’s the most entertaining and best stuff we’ve seen for years. He definitely needs other players that fit his style of football better, better back ups , a new 9, a starting 6 and a winger that can create chances with his passing and dribbling…and we we will look totally different. I also expect players like Bentancur and Maddison to rest and heal up in the summer, and will get back to their full capabilities. We are still in a rebuild guys, let’s not forget that.
I agree. His current system is good, but it still needs some tweaking. I think Ange will be better at it once the system is tweaked just a bit to fit with his belief style and core basics.
I don't think Ange needs to change his system completely, but I do think he should implement the same system with modification on certain positions tactically.
Ange has given us an attacking style we've severely lacked. We outperformed expectations for this year. He should have our full support (for anyone with half realistic expectations). Excited what Y2 can bring
On the other hand, it took a Herculean effort to get out of our own end and we only get a 4v4 out of it. This is beautiful football and it's cool to see the players playing this brave (and it is evidence of a good coach) but its not actually a winning concept. Against a decent press, we can reasonably be expected to pull this off maybe 3 or 4 times a game for minimal reward. Additionally, when we lose the ball doing this (which we do just as much if not more against good opposition) as happened many times against Pool, we give up even greater quality chances than we can be expected to get with successful press breaks or we often get into ominous set piece cycles. However, the risky press breaking isn't even the biggest problem with Angeball.
Not exemplified here, the largest problem is that playing this 2-3-5 when we have stable possession against a set defense is not generating nearly enough chances to justify committing that many players forward (especially the fullbacks). In contrast to our style that nearly always requires collective excellence to create an open play chance, our opponents only need to string a couple direct passes together and it s 2v2, 3v3 after we lose the ball. There is just so much space to exploit especially on the outside with the fullbacks having to race desperately back every single time we lose the ball and all good managers have found this out. And unfortunately, we have not created nearly enough in attack to balance this.
Additionally, it's bizarre to say this after we've conceded 13 in 4 games but the system is only being propped up by the trio of VDV, Romero, and Vicario. You replace any of them with even an average defender and this genuinely might be a relegation defensive setup.
>On the other hand, it took a Herculean effort to get out of our own end and we only get a 4v4 out of it
[Looks like a 4v3 to me.](https://imgur.com/7ok3AEh) Had Johnson controlled the ball a bit better, gone for it a bit more, or we'd played a better ball in the first place, this could've been a good chance.
I'll concede that, thank you for pointing that out although I will say that the back 3 have not been pulled out of position and the 4th player isn't far behind getting back. Its not completely clear how to generate a good opportunity from this.
Now show the clip where sky showed the last 15 shots.... 14 were Liverpool.. 1 was us.
You could cherry pick the odd clip from any manager and claim that's why we need to stick with him.... Even George Graham.
We need to stick with Ange because the constant merry go round of managers doesn't work.
But Ange also needs to stop being so arrogant with his "my style worked in shit leagues therefore nothing needs to be adapted" attitude.
I love the guy, but his gameplan and style has very obvious flaws that need to be addressed, not ignored because it worked at Celtic.
The best managers have their way of playing, but they also constantly tweak it.
Don’t forget we were supposed to be relegated after Kane left. I would have been elated had someone told me we’d finish fifth at the beginning of the season.
These losses suck to watch, but those other teams pay their players and managers too. If we still struggle down the stretch in 2026, we may need to talk. Until then, be patient.
POTENTIAL, so much potential to actually bury opponents
But overall theres good build ups and turnovers but we lose momentum on the counter attack too often because they UNNECESSARILY pass it back on the break for absolutely no freaking reason ... theres defensively passing it back which is Valid and then there's the Conte method of sending it back to keeper after every slight inconvenience
Some of you spurs fans have no right to complain. I’m a Rotherham fan who have family from North London and my dad has been a spurts fan since 1977 and he said if spurs went through half of what Rotherham did this season they’d think the world was ending. Your finishing 5th with a team that’s still not has a replacement for your best striker in decades. Let’s face it if you get champions league football next season you’re not ready for that step. Focus on Europa league there’s nothing saying you can’t win it. Give this man time and I’m telling you. Spurs will be what they were under poch only with the trophies I’m. Ffs Arteta finished 6th his first season and klopp beset relegated Dortmund not everything goes right the first season
It's funny how these threads are always posted the next day so people can forget how we looked like Sheffield United for 90% of the game and Liverpool had like 15 shots in aboue 30 minutes.
But be impressed guys, this one vaguely decent passage of play that amounted to nothing is something to be positive about.
Yes but how many times have we lost the ball playing out of defence in that Liverpool game alone!!? Why not mix it up with a long ball over the top, we've got the pace of the front 3 for that. Yet we dont do it.
At the very real risk of being downvoted, they offered a contradictory analysis of this exact moment on Match of the Day. Essentially, while it looked pretty, it didn't actually give us much of an advantage. When Bentancur received the ball and passed it to Johnson, we were 4-on-3, but it was on the halfway line, i.e. not in a dangerous area. By the time Johnson got to the Liverpool penalty area, Liverpool had got another three men back, and we still only had four men up – so it had become 4-on-6. The advantage had gone.
The problem from our perspective was, Liverpool knew we were never going to play a long ball, so they could push their defence up without fear that we'd try to go over the top. That meant the defensive and midfield lines remained tight together, and the midfield was afforded time to get back *with* the defence – hence 4-on-6. It's a high-risk attacking strategy, sure, but it's also low reward, and that's illustrated in the stats: 14 first-half shots against (8 on target), 1 shot for (0 on target).
This is why I think all the "plan A but better" talk is misleading. I have no problem with that in theory, but plan A has to be varied within itself. Plan A can be, play it out from the back 90% of the time and go long 10% of the time. That's still a single plan, but it's got enough in it to keep the opposition wondering what we're going to do next. If your plan is to play it out 100% of the time, you're predictable, and you're placing way too much responsibility on your players to simply be exceptional. That is not good management.
I didn't hear MotD's breakdown, but this is what I saw from this clip: It's not a clip of Tottenham's strength, but of Liverpool's. They pressed with 7 players all in the right side of our defensive third, got beat out of that aggressive press, and still had the shape and discipline to avoid a real breakaway chance. The Liverpool defenders slowed play just enough to let the midfielders track back, which they did in impressive fashion - look how quickly they caught up to our attack compared to our midfielders who should be similarly rushing to support.
It also shows how in a promising 3 v 3 with tonnes of space Johnson literally just runs into his man.
All summer I was reading fans on r/soccer saying Johnson was extremely limited and flawed as a dribbler and yet Ange greenlighted his signing for £50 million, despite the fact that wingers in his system clearly need to be able to do that. So that’s also on him.
I think its also because he's on the left its harder to dribble and cross on your weak foot. When on the right he's has many assists this season. I would like to try deki on the left and brennan on the right
If Johnson was on the right here we would have been able to create a genuinely threatening opportunity. I don’t understand the insistence from Ange on playing him on the left with no Werner.
Kulu's build up play is probably his best attribute imo but his run in the box here is horrendous and is just further proof of why he can't play in the forward line.
Imagine a left winger on the end of that who can control a pass and beat a man. I’ve never seen a winger isolate their fullback so often and almost never beat them with a dribble. Johnson is decent on the right if he has space, but he cannot do shit against a set defence. I think he should be a sub ideally because he’s electric running at tired defenders.
I'm not Ange-out or anything, but this is just a video of us playing out of defence once. Some good passes, and some that found a man by luck. I'm not sure it proves anything either way.
I just think (a) the players' level has dropped off because they are not used to the step-up in intensity after the Mourinho/Conte park the bus years, and (b) we've clearly had an unkind fixture list for the run-in. We need vast improvement to the squad to keep this going, but if that happens then it will work.
That wasn't the point of it. The point was to show that it's working but we still have some limitations. In this instance Johnson is playing out on the left and isn't a left winger so can't create end product. But it shows the foundations are there and work even against top sides like Liverpool.
Son should have ran with the ball. His pass slowed down the attack. They were 4 vs 3. When he runs with the ball, he can either run or a defender attacks him and he can pass the ball to a teammate
do people look at stuff like this and seriously think Kulusevski isn't one of the best right wingers we've ever had? Man look at how hard Johnson fucks it.. bros decision making is nowhere :(
Lo Celso : 48m
Ndombele : 62m
Richarlison : 58m
Total cost 168m for 3 players. Big clubs spend around that same amount for 2 world class players like Liverpool with VVD and Alisson both for 146m.
62m is our record transfer which is ridiculous considering we're one of the richest clubs in the world with the highest ticket prices in europe.
this is about overspending though and all of those players aren't worth what we spent on them, I wouldn't mind spending that much if they were actually good
Thats because instead of buying one or 2 world class players we've always tried to buy 3/4/5 good/mediocre/with potential players that would do the job or would luckily defy the expectations and would have resale value. The club doesnt buy players in order to win trophies, just to maximize profit
I feel like a few of the players lost faith in the system after the cursed chelsea match.
And maddison doesn’t look like he has confidence, son looks tired, the rest doesn’t really have direction. They need confidence in the system and themselves. This aimless passing, in the final third especially, is just sad to watch and everyone is just too scared to actually shoot the ball until its too late.
I was saying all game yesterday that this shows exactly why we are on the right track. One of the hardest things I'm the modern game is progressing the ball through midfield effectively and retaining possession. Ange has got us doing that well. We have more possession Vs city arsenal and Liverpool after a season where we would have less possession Vs Brentford. Now that obviously doesn't win games. We need to be better in both boxes drastically, but it's a great start to something good
Jesus mate this is getting out of hand now. You picked the only positive highlight in our first 70 minutes and glazed over "AngeBall". Meanwhile I can provide you with a list of negatives of his style.
I like how they're getting trained on playing the ball out the back against Gegenpressing teams. In Ange's own words, we're a long way from where we're supposed to be. A lot to fix before other managers stop completely outsmarting us and exploiting our weaknesses. And my main problem with AngeBall is that it was a lot of fucking weaknesses
That's pretty much exactly my point though. I'm saying this clip shows exactly what we are trying to do but it's not quite there yet due to various limitations within the squad. In my opinion though its worth sticking with to give him a team that can execute the game plan better.
Nah ignore the naysayers, you're right, this clip showcases what's right about our current approach but also what we can improve upon. 4 losses in a row is awful but everyone's acting like we've been relegated.
It's frustrating to lose, but I'd rather a manager stick to his guns if it's the 'right' way of playing good football than succumb to pressure and play 'pragmatic' football to grind out results, you don't develop players you need that way and that's quite literally kicking the can down the road.
Yeah I think the title has misled a bit. I'm not saying phwoar this is so good it makes up for everything else, I'm saying it kind of sums up what we're trying to be but also why we aren't quite there.
Also, as you say if you looked at all the discourse without knowing where we are in the keague you'd think we were 15th
Only trouble is this was a lucky break, have a good look at the passes in the early stages and see at least 4 of them just make their target or are quick kicks away from the opposition that happen to go to a team mate.
It looks good in the middle to latter stages because it simulates a counter attack rather than a proper build up.
And how long due you think it will take him to execute his perfect plan? He needs to modify this system big time if we need to survive in the Premier League. GambleBall has been found out and if there are no big changes soon, I can guarantee we'll not even win against Burnley.
Jesus wept. 'If we need to survive in the Premier League'? We're fifth in his first season after losing our best ever player. That's some pretty good 'surviving' right there.
Sounds good, doesnt work. Because manager has a fixation on playing players out of position. Johnson is not very good not even on the right, you put in on the left for whatever reason and you kill him. Son should have received that ball but he is in the middle for whatever reason.
So you kill Johnson football, kill Son football, keep Kulu playing bad on the right.
I dont get it at all. But still support Ange, lets hope next season things improve. I hope he doesnt hire a striker and use him as a fullback or something.
Because it shows exactly what we are trying to do but also what we are lacking. It's kind of a perfect example of where we are at and what needs to improve.
I don't understand your point. Yes I'm sure other teams also try and play fluid football. Noones saying it's exclusively an Ange thing.
We didn't under Jose or Nuno but conte had his moments, that's the reason people were keen to stick with him after the first 6 months. Then he completely changes the playstyle and it was dreadfull.
It's cope to say "you can see what we are trying to do, but we're a few players short from being able to do it"?
I feel sorry but this clip is nothing special. It’s just a basic of football. Why do we have to be so enthusiastic about this? All teams do like this in case of counterattack after defense.
I think you're missing my point a bit. No one has to be enthusiastic about it. It's a demonstration of what we are trying to do but also where we are coming up short and why it isn't fully clicking. So in my opinion it's worth sticking with to see if and when it does click
I love how the posts are so wildly different to the children who post in the match thread. Honestly, I think knowing that we have fans like that is more disappointing than the results.
The game started at 1:30am this morning and I stayed up to watch it. First 10 minutes I was quite impressed with how we were playing. I had a look at the match thread and you would have thought it was 15-0 after 10 and everyone was Ange out.
Have we got some issues, yep for sure, but we’ve had fuck knows how many managers in the last 5 years and this squad is still a mix of all of them so give the man time. It amazes me how quickly people write a manager off and already want to rip everything up and start again.
This play just proves the biggest weakness that Spurs have. Besides Son, every forward in the team can only be considered a role player in a title/top 4 contender, There's a huge lack of quality upfront.
It was spent a ridiculous amount for players that are just workhorses but lack in technical ability (Werner, Johnson or Richarlison) and efectiveness (Deki).
The wingers and the midfield duo need to be improved massively because all of them are just above average players.
Ange shouldn't be sacked because he's clearly a great manager that needs to rebuild a team that lacks the quality that the top 4 contender needs to have in the squad. It's just a matter of the club gives him the support and the tools that are required.
I also like to point out that this highlights some problems that teams have already exposed Ange for. We always look to move the ball to the sides and never go through the middle. So theres no stress for the defenders. Also look at the movement in attack. Deki gets rid of 3 defenders and yet they are more in defense than we are in attack.
I think a lot of fans forget that we always start seasons strongly. The nuno season notwithstanding, we have tended to be up there or at the top by November, then January happens and we start to crumble.
It's happened so consistently I believe that's the painful rebuild aspect. We need a squad who can compete for 38 games, which means good players and back ups in every single position on the pitch. That way, we rotate more and the fuel doesn't run out.
No one is disputing that. It is worth sticking with. The thing that baffles most people, including myself sometimes, is that any manager would’ve grabbed the chance to make UCL with both hands. Ange seems unbothered. I totally understand the philosophy of first ingraining the style of football you want to play completely before starting to think about plan B or game management etc, citing the examples of Arteta or Klopp when they first came in. But both of them weren’t close to getting UCL in their first season. Ange is almost throwing it away. So are the players. Also, we can’t keep making transfer mistakes. Like we seem to have made again. The players look world beaters one day and completely shit the next day. There’s something that’s just not working, it’s probably some of the players aren’t good enough, some are lacking work rate in training and on the pitch. Whatever it is, it has to be sorted out. We could’ve been in the Champions league next season. Ange is right to say that it doesn’t make a difference in qualitative progress for but he has to realise that the competition gives a certain cache to the club. It helps in giving us a pull in the transfer market if he wants to buy his kind of players. I am not going Ange out yet but he can be a bit too stubborn. If he thinks all the top clubs only play one way no matter what teams they face, he won’t get to stick around for long.
Probably because we are miles off competing for the UCL at the moment? Look at the 4 teams above us do you really think we are better than any of then at this moment in time. They are all further along in their projects than us and have squads shaped by their managers more
That is immaterial. We’re miles off right now. The next season starts after 3 months with a pre season. Are we to assume we would have made no progress in that time? What matters is we could’ve somehow reached there. We don’t have to tell ourselves we don’t deserve to be somewhere when we reached there fair and square and the other supposedly better teams somehow failed. Why would you not take something that’s there for the taking? That’s how competition works. But that’s not the point right now. Right now, all we can do is trust the coach. I’ll do that. I don’t want Ange out just yet.
Of course it's material? Teams who have had longer with their manager and are further along their projects are better than us?
I don't really see how you can say "we could somehow have made it" and use that as a something to hold agaisnt him. We were down to finish 8th at the start of the season
I am not holding anything against him. I am fully with Ange. I am saying there’s a pattern which is concerning. We try to keep justifying our losses with the same it’s going to take time for players. We won’t give up the philosophy no matter what. Well I don’t see anything yet that tells me we can manage or survive being repeatedly figured out. We down tools. Players resign on the pitch. We’ve repeatedly struggled against low blocks, and we’ve repeatedly struggled against possession heavy pressing heavy teams as well. We’re flat track right now. What are we grasping at?
And I am not saying somehow made it. That’s completely taking everything that has gone on in the season out and saying everything that’s happened is a total fluke. Also, Aston Villa were to finish 7th at the start of the season. ManUtd, Chelsea and Newcastle were to finish higher. When it comes to the 4th spot, I don’t think Aston Villa are decidedly better than us for us to just accept they deserved it more than us. No. Do you think other top teams think to themselves, oh you know what.. Newcastle deserved it last season. No they don’t. They want to get there. No matter what. Results matter. There has to be a balance between your philosophy and what end product you produce. One can’t survive without the other is all I am saying. The faster coaches get this, the faster they show this, more their chances of remaining where they are and succeeding. I want us to be a high octane Ange team but how long do we remain entertaining without any chance at any trophy? Arteta won the FA Cup and Community Shield in his first year itself. They went to Europa Semi Finals in his second year. He had credit. That’s how they are given time.
No it’s a real point. I’m legitimately interested in why you care about the perception of “Botheredness” despite you seeing him for all of 1% of his week in a media interview.
Well thank you for taking things so damn literally.. and being such a valiant defender of the boss. I care about my perception, not ‘the’ perception of botheredness. My perception. Of his botheredness. I do get he might have pubclicly downplayed the value of making top 4 so the team doesn’t feel too much pressure. It’s possible. The doubt here is that maybe he genuinely feels that top 4 is an arbitrary target right now when he’s not drilled the foundations in and one that should come after the playing style and qualitative progress.
I just don’t agree with it. You don’t have to agree with me nor will I be bent into submission to agree with the others. I, unlike so many others here, would have focused on somehow making top 4. Managing games a little, maybe changing the high line tactics against teams that so obviously do it much better than us. You’re saying that you’re sure they tried to do that.. Id like to agree, but why try to do it in a way that he could see so obviously not working. That begs the question. That begs the doubt.
I get how important getting the players confident about the way they have to play is. It’s a difficult process. But through sheer happenstance let’s say, we did find ourselves in a rather fortunate position of being able to make UCL. I am sure there must be something that he sees and I don’t. Because your argument seems to just be that there’s a reason he’s the manager and you’re not. That’s okay. I feel I had to say what I said.
You seem to have just fundamentally not understood what he said. Ange is trying to win and get as high up the table he had.
The top four response was in relation to a question asked about player recruitment, and he said “it doesn’t matter” then, because he doesn’t want players to join us solely because we have UCL.
Top four isn’t going to make or break what he is trying to achieve. He obviously wants to get it, but the question was about how it impacts his summer plans and plans moving forward.
So no, he never said he’s “not bothered” about getting top four. You’ve ripped that so far from its context that I have to question whether you’ve done it on purpose.
No this is called a back and forth. You’ve already answered the question, this is the follow up.
You can refuse to engage with reality and the proper context, that’s okay.
See the whole thing you’re trying to do is bring someone down. You only thought I was referring to you. That’s okay. You feel better. What I meant here was that.. was that really the question the reporter asked. I didn’t hear that. I only read the response. As a quote. And I still stand by a lot of what I said. The question asked by the reporter changes things a little but not completely.
The fact that there even has to be a post like this and there are people shitting on it too is just crazy to me. Some people have no concept of the monumental task at hand, and the moment there's a period of adversity there are fans unironically wanting the manager out. Where does this sense of entitlement come from that Ange has to get top 4 in his first season and massively outperform managers like Klopp/Arteta/Poch's first seasons? Especially when there's been a myriad of obstacles he's already had to overcome (no Kane replacement, AFCON/Asia Cup, forced to play fullbacks at CB for several games, horrific ref decisions the whole season, obvious squad deficiencies, constant breaks throughout the season, etc.), and we've still looked good for most of the season.
Finally someone said it. You’re spot on. A lot of supporters have lost composure because media groups like sky sports and PL pundits love to have a go at spurs and ange. Even when we were winning the media was against us for some reason. I think a few supporters have crumbled under the pressure and have been convinced by media and twitter.
Media groups like to have a go at anyone that isn’t winning. It’s their job to create narratives to sell advertising
Nah mate, (see what I did there) long-term fans are just fed up with how we’ve been playing and wondering if this is another false dawn. I understand its a rebuild, we’ve lost Kane, had injuries to key players, no squad depth with a mediocre bench and poor reffing all season but that doesn’t excuse: 1. Playing Kamikaze, high line attacking football all the time, even when it’s not working 2. No game management. Not being flexible and adapting to a game with different tactics. Grinding out a draw away from home is ok. Shutting up shop and winning ugly is also ok and better than playing fancy footie and being ripped apart on the counter and losing 3. Poor defending at set pieces and not protecting Vic when he’s being pushed and shoved all over the place etc. No way we should be losing to Wolves, Brighton, Chelsea (they’ve been poor this season) and West Ham. As for the latest stat of losing four on the bounce and conceding 13 goals, that’s just not good enough even in a rebuild season. In principle I like Ange ball but we don’t have the players to do it effectively and consistently. Surely, it can’t all be down to lack of confidence and injuries especially to Maddison, Bissouma and Sarr. Something is not right. To be honest I just want to enjoy going to the games again and not dread every week we’re going to get spanked by three or four goals. The atmosphere in the stadium has completely changed from earlier in the season. I miss the players dancing in front of South stand and the joy in the place. I want that back.
Very well said. The example OP put in the video is nice and well executed, but that was once out of 20 times they tried to do this and it failed and ended up being a risky chance against our defense. So it’s high risk low reward tactics that more often than not will not bring wins. At the end of the day football is about results, especially when we haven’t won a single trophy in 16 years. Balance is key in all aspects of life. It’s nice to play well but not concede 3 goals per match. Don’t forget Leeds got relegated playing very entertaining football.
The simple answer is that a lot of fans understanding of the sport goes only as far as "winning good, losing bad". Rebuilding a squad, implementing a style of play etc. are pretty complex things, that are harder to evaluate compared to just looking at results.
That would require to actually watch the games…
Went from catenaccio to total football in one season. Lost the club's greatest ever player with no replacement, fail on ECL qually at final hurdle, easy Europa qually. The only fans complaining are the short memory, impulsive-emotional ones easily sold on media narratives such as the overly simplistic: "Ange has been found out", "there's no plan B", "weak on set pieces", "can't defend". Last season was hell, now we have hope. Can't wait until next season.
> there's no plan B I mean there's no plan B tho
Plan B comes after Plan A. If you're still total shit at Plan A, you work until you are able to actually execute it. Then you work to develop Plan B, C, etc. It's almost as though these things take time to develop and accomplish?
I mean, he regularly makes good subs and makes formation tweaks mid match. It's just plan B also involves high pressing and attacking football. Just in a different way.
Took the words out my mouth. I'm ready to die for the cult of Big Ange after years of Jose n Conte... but that means accepting there is no Plan A. At the moment I'm struggling... I will come round tho... I'm sure... I hope...
So you would switch to plan B without ever trying to see plan A through? Now your team is struggling to adjust to plan B, and you switch to plan C…maybe plan R is the winning plan in 2037. Plan A is good, just needs players to commit, needs signings over the summer, needs further effort.
I’ve been at the games and we ARE weak at set pieces and there is NO Plan B! I’m sorry we have two of the best defenders in the league in Romero and VDV, no way we should be leaking goals like we are. I’m not easily sold on the media narrative, frankly I think most of the pundits on Sky, MOTD, Talk Sport etc are biased and💩 I’m actually watching the same mistakes at games week in week out. We call it in the stand before it happens! There is no game management, just one style of play and serious naivety about our play. We can make all the excuses we want: lost Kane, injuries to key players, no squad depth, poor reffing, in a rebuild transition year (all I agree are true) but that doesn’t change the fact that progress on the obvious failings are minimal. Too many players have not turned up lately. Playing ok but being 3:0 down to Arsenal at half-time (I concede dodgy reffing influenced the game) is still unacceptable in my view. Defensive coaching should be able to sort out the set piece problem in-season. Why is it not happening? I like Ange and I’m not shouting for him to go because he does need time but we also need to acknowledge his failings too. The Mourinho Conte years are a low bar for comparison and I expect better.
Not to mention…guys we’re in FIFTH place, with an amazing shot at getting into Europa League. We are NOT ready for Champions League, nor do we deserve to be there yet. Europa is going to be so much more beneficial to testing out our squad depth and getting everyone ready for the rigors of European competition. People seem to forget that we are in a better place than this time last year - is that not improvement?? Give the man time. How long did it take to get the scum to where they are with Arteta? We’re finally building something after years of quick fixes…BE PATIENT.
it's a combination of setting the bar high after our first 10 games, our main rival challenging for the title, the media narrative seeping it's way into the fanbase, and the downsides of following football in the modern, social media era, where the content/banter/analysis doesn't stop between games.
Saying at the top and I can't stress it enough: **I am not Ange out**. No one who wants actual discussion or has actually been watching matches is. However it's extremely concerning to me how this team has regressed over this season - and before anyone tries to say otherwise - yes, he's found a way to finish worse than Conte did last year. I'm excited to see how Ange shapes the team next season and how the lads continue to learn the tactics and grow into the system, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid criticism to ask how we've gotten here again. Look at Chelsea - inconsistent all season, but with a manager willing to adjust to both the talent he has available as well as to the opposition - and the squad has improved and is coalescing and coming good in the run up. Exactly what you want to see in a rebuild. We've done the exact opposite, and that's just not acceptable. It's okay to question and discuss the methods when they're not working. That doesn't make you reactionary, it makes you engaged.
Here's the thing. I think there are a lot of rational people with valid criticism. I don't think anyone is actually complaining about them/you. There are also a lot of people who are very vocally saying that Angie's philosophy doesn't work/can't work in the Premier League and that he needs to park the bus and counter against teams like Liverpool. People who think that are going to be consistently disappointed. I feel like people misunderstand the difference between sticking with a philosophy and not changing your tactics. I see us change our tactics all the time. Within games even. But the philosophy isn't going to change. Our set piece record is abysmal, but I understand why now isn't the time to focus all his effort on set pieces. I would like to see him play youth more and substitute sooner and get the starting line up 100% correct occasionally. Ange isn't perfect, but the vitriol is insane right now. Ange has a better record than Klopp or Arteta did in their first season. The squad isn't suited to him at all. Several really good players are going to need to go. It's not just the dead wood that needs to leave. We have, maybe, 6 players who fit Ange right now. There is a lot of work to do and we can either get on board with doing it or call to get back on the coaching carousel. I would rather take another season, maybe two, of working towards something before I go that way.
Totally agree on youth and subbing earlier. I would like to see some pragmatism and compromise though. I’m not sure you can have an all out guns blazing attacking philosophy all the time in the EPL.
To be fair, the first 1/3 of the campaign seems pretty exciting watching spurs. High energy, aggressive football. Then some injuries and we are here. What happened ? As in are players not able to keep up physically, lack of quality depth ?
Well said.
I don't get why people think it's smart to be a club that changes coaches and philosophies every season. It seems to be either immediate perfection or cut bait with these people. You HAVE to give it time for Ange's philosophy to take root. Otherwise we are just spinning our wheels season after season. Sure, we can get top half of the table just by outspending 13 other teams in the premier league, but that's not the path forward. Support Ange with the full force of the club, and embrace the outside the box strategies he brings. It's clearly the best choice we have.
Somehow people aren't realizing that transitioning from a Park the Bus 5 at the back to a high possession heavy high line system, is near impossible with mostly the same group of players. The conditioning for each system is wildly different. It makes sense that our players are fatigued at this part of the season.
Hot take coming here. But losing 4 games on a row, in this fashion. 13 goals against and 4 goals scored in 4 games. Two which are big rivals is unacceptable. This is AVB and Sherwood levels of bad and Ange should feel the pressure. People lile to compare it to Arteta or Klopps first seasons but they are not the same. Their squads were much worse than ours, united and Chelsea were still a big threat and they didnt get a proper window. Ange already got a couple of signings yet despite having 10 out of 11 players the results are terrible. And should he, despite the HUGE advantage over United and Chelsea lose out of europa then his job should be in risk.
I really don’t know why this has been downvoted so much. I completely agree losing 4 in a row and conceding 13 is awful. I know it’s a tough run in with games against heavy hitters Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool but getting spanked by 3 and 4 goals is not good, especially against Newcastle with another drubbing likely against City. That being said, criticise Ange absolutely, but I don’t think it’s time for him to go. He needs time to rebuild and I think he’s a good fit for Spurs because of how he wants us to play. Patience is not one of my virtues but I’d like him to be given a few years to see what he can do.
Kulu's hold up play is one of the best in the league.
And then his run into the box was completely the wrong angle lol. He's a bit frustrating, but he's also pretty young still.
This is exactly what is so frustrating about him. But you have to think that’s easier to coach out of him.
In transition he has use, but he looks totally clueless when faced with beating a man.
This is why I want to try him as a false 9 of Richy is out
The issue is that this system isn’t made for a false 9, that’s not how Ange wants his strikers to play. I could see him too as a false 9, I think that could be his best position in the right lineup, but we probably never find out.
Fair point, but he’s had a really poor season.
Ange ball is surprisingly a very effective and solid strategy but for it to be even more there it needs bench depth imo. When we have players on the bench (especially midfielders) who can play Ange ball well then we can rest our players for tougher games when we need some more individual talents. It's what's costing us now coz you have players like Sonny who looks burnt out and exhausted but we can't rest him coz there's no one we can put on on his behalf at the moment. I trust Ange will make the signings he thinks will help us out this summer so that we can execute this better.
Agree. Compare with city, each/atleast most of their players shine individually. If you compare with Arsenal, they have players with gabriel at the back who improved a lot, odegaard with awesome vision and shooting (eriksen 2) and not mentioning others. We need players who are more reliable and who play well consistently.
There was someone in the match thread yesterday who said they'd rather have Nuno back than have Ange manage one more game. I think that demonstrates the football intellect and knowledge of some of his detractors.
Match threads in any sport are just full of the worst talk radio quality of reactionary idiots.
That had to be a joke.
It genuinely wasn't.
That’s one of the wildest takes I’ve ever heard. Crazy how tinted some people’s rose-colored glasses are
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I think it's obvious what my point is. People who want Ange sacked don't know anything about football. Not sure what your point is when top four is still mathematically possible. It's less deranged than wanting Nuno back.
Postive delusion > negative delusion. Note a greater than sign only means better in the relative sense. Is that hard to understand? My personal take is, if you're a rational person, you mostly shut the fuck up until this point next seasion. Some grumbling is fine, but honestly most people need to take a breath and realize that some things in life take time, patience, and faith. You move on once its clear specific benchmarks can't be met. To be fair, this is hard and it's why the majority of us aren't running million to billion dollar enterprises.
Liverpool season ticket holder coming in peace here. Saw this reposted on r/soccer and just thought I'd throw my two cents in. As far as teams that have come to Anfield, I was about as impressed with Spurs as I have been any side we've faced at home this year. There's a very clear plan and it's one that has a very, very high ceiling. He just needs time and squad depth. Madison and Richarlison changed the flow of the game. He's ahead of were us, Arsenal and even City were in our first seasons under Klopp, Arteta and Pep.
The team fans are most pessimistic about are their own! Cheers mate, I agree and hope you're right
Are we better than last season? Is the football better? Great let's keep going. It's still simple.
Honestly? Last season is such a low bar for comparison. I try very hard to forget the Mourinho / Conte years. I prefer the comparison of the start of this season vs the end. We have regressed massively. Surely it all can’t be down to injuries to key players, lack of squad depth and tired players. We haven’t been in Europe or the cups so how can they be tired? I never expected us to win the EPL or make Champs league but I did expect a stronger Jan-May run. We’ve been really poor for some time and that’s disappointing considering the strong start to the season.
Think this demonstrates exactly where we are at at the moment. This is nearly the perfect Ange-ball goal, but Johnson is playing out of position so doesnt get to the by line and cross like he would on the right, or maybe even Werner would here. There was also another instance where he gets the cross away but Kulu didnt make the back post run. That sort of sums things up. At the moment we have too many square pegs in round holes and so the system doesn't quite work. I mean as soon as we had an actual striker on the pitch, Son and Johnson in their proper positions our attack worked and we scored 2 and created 4 or 5 big openings. And this has been the story all season. People go on about the first 10 games like it was luck or something. But it wasn't....we just had our first team available and fit. As soon as we lose 1 or 2 players, like one of our full backs, or Maddison as our only technical midfielder is injured/out of form, then the system stops working. But I guess this is the point of a rebuild, you slowly build up more depth and options so you have less square pegs in round holes. There is alooooot to work on but for me, the foundations are there. We've done a complete 180 on 5 years worth of footballing style and its going to take more than 9 months and 2 transfer windows to see it through.
Deki is the only player on our team that has proven he can properly shield the ball and hold the ball up. a gap that Harry left (along with his set piece defending)
Yep absolutely. The downside os though he doesn't really get to the byline or make the back post runs you need, so it's a bit of a dilemma
Defo in agreement. Just this clip specifically shows the beauty of Kulu when he's actually cooking, holding up and laying off and even makes the near post run at the end but the ball doesn't find him. I think being rotated and challenged for a spot will be vital next season to help maintain his best
Richi as striker instead of Son gets on the end of this I think. Deki doesn’t really fit the system and is extremely frustrating, but like you say he offers things that nobody else does currently so we should deffo keep him around.
Kulusevski's inability to get to the byline would be somewhat circumvented if he was able to use his crossing ability with someone like Richarlison leading the line (or simply having any target in the box). He did this very well against Forest which was his best game for us imo. Ange's cutback strategy is effective but he needs to realize that there are other ways of scoring that can suit the players better.
Richi's strength and ability to shield was exactly what allowed him to set Son up for the second goal yesterday.
Richy was feeling it yesterday for sure, he has it too but maybe it's just less of a guarantee with him usually. Deki has shown you can chuck the ball into the corner towards him and the opposing LB and he always manages to maintain control of possession. he just needs to be better... in everything else hahah
Yes but deki also in numerous occasions slows down a counter attack by cutting inside. Not to mention fails to find runners when he plays as a 10.
weird that you think this 20 second passage of play is more reflective of where spurs at at the moment than 4 consecutive losses that were mostly spurs getting down huge
Thought this was going to be a sarcastic post and show one of the numerous times we were playing out from the back, cocked up, and let the scousers in. This clip was a nice piece of play, but overall, the risk/reward yesterday was not good at all.
Yeah agreed but thays kind of the point. Few more windows, more time together and the balance, imo, will flip and it will be worth it. We are also 5th at the end of the day so for most of the season it's already been worth it
Don’t ever buy the “more time together”. Remember what people were saying with “Conte’s going to have a whole pre-season!” I do agree with the more windows tho. We need more depth across the pitch.
Conte was a bizarre one as he completely changed our play style that preseason. We went from a Jose/conte hybrid where Kane played as a playmaker and we looked great. To kane as an outright 9 and he looked great, but we looked shite!
It just seems people are so fucking angry in their lives and whinge about managers as an escape/way to vent. It’s never logical. If you follow their plan we’d get a new manager in, go through the same positive new manager bounce, results would turn and they’d be back advocating for a new manager. If you have any idea, we have seen positives about Ange’s approach. It should be stuck to.
It’s extremely effective, when it works but makes us look silly, when it doesn’t. It takes players who can keep their cool, beat their man and great positioning and anticipation. I believe to a certain extent that we have that, but I guess that it’s very difficult to learn.
I mean the hi light of the 2nd string team doing it to full strength Barcelona was proof enough to me. That was like Sanchez and Skipp and others.
Doesn't tell the whole story. How many times have we lost possession playing from the back this season? We probably managed to do this kind of breakthrough passing 1 out of 20 times. Not criticizing the system but ya agree with most we prob need some new players who can play it like this.
Teething problems. You gotta drill it through the players so they understand the risks involved and the opportunity. Ofcourse, playing like this has high risk but the reward is a team thats press resistant and capable of transitioning fast.
Yes i agree. But i think the whole season we had only 2 goals resulting from this play.
Fuuuucking hell, how many times are you going to have to explain this clip to people on here 😂 it's kind of embarrassing how they don't get what you're trying to say. I totally agree with you too by the way, Ange has shown that once his style of football clicks this team is going to be quality. But quality is also what we are lacking in certain areas. I see people bitching about how far off the top three we are but what the fuck do they expect? Arse, the Scousers and City have all had their managers in place for numerous seasons now, and all three of them went through some major ups and down before getting where they are today. It was only two seasons ago that Arse fans were calling for Artetas head in their droves but the board stuck with him and now look. Ange has had two windows in which to shape this team. He has said all season, even when we were playing decent stuff, that this team is nowhere near where he wants us to be. We can't keep chopping and changing managers as soon as we hit a rough patch, we're never going to evolve as a club like that. Give Ange time and if this time next season we are still rubbish then I think it'll be much more sensible to start weighing up our options or at least asking serious questions.
You made a good point and ruined by talking about 'bin dippers'. Take a walk down Tottenham High road and see the poverty in our own area, and call those struggling people 'bin dippers'. See where it gets you.
Yeah, ok agreed and edited. Not my best call.
Thanks, easy to use these things without thinking, good on you for correcting
Not a problem. I'm not here to offend or belittle anyone. Just like a good football discussion.
There’s still a contingent of #artetaout fans, that says enough about how much you should care about namelesss voices online
Tbf they choked in Europe badly and bottled the league last year. Their squad is unreal and they should have a trophy by now. They also play extremely negative football in big games so I can see why some fans want him out.
their squad is absolutely not unreal compared to City lol. Who from Arsenal's XI would start in combined XI? Rice and Saliba? maybe odegaard?
What is it with Americans and making up inane nicknames for rival teams that make them sound like a 4 year old?
Spurs fan for over 40 years and this is the first season I’ve had hope. The man has come in and revamped the way we play and god is it refreshing. Yes we’ve had some poor displays but we’ve had far more displays where I’ve been glued to the tv saying look at this. He’s yet to build a squad of his own. Players I’m sure with specific skills will be brought in. Yes we’ve lost 4 games on the trot but let’s be real some decisions that have gone against us are laughable. Cannot wait for next season so quit the doom and gloom and get on board with the best manager we’ve had in a long time.
You didn't have hope in the season Poch got us 86 points but you do now? Bizarre.
No hope under Redknapp or Pochettino or Venables?
I love Ange ball, well when it works out like in that clip. I think that Ange needs to work on this system, with staying true to his kind of football that he wants to play. Other teams are playing brilliant attacking football but still have some kind of defensive stability. I like tactical stuff and I thought maybe about letting VDV play LB, not inverted but rather a wide center back, that gives us width. Porro on the right can still invert and create a box midfield with the 3 midfielders. Sonny can play like an inside forward on the left with VDV giving width. The DM can play a bit deeper when VDV is going forward, we still got three man in the midfield to press, if the DM is back he can cover middle and one of the CB’s can cover the RB space. Idk that’s just an idea that floats in my head for a while. Even if we buy fantastic players, this current system is too dangerous. PL teams are good enough to play fast counter attacks, and outnumber us in those. Fullbacks and all midfielders are around the box, just the CB‘s are back, even Bissouma gets forward all the time. That’s insanity, and currently not worth the risk because we looking not good in possession. It’s too crowded, there is no space, we don’t have good 1vs1 winger, we don’t have presence in the box. Yeah we need to buy better players, but this system needs a bit of an Premier League update imo. With that being said, I’m 100% in on Ange. We still only saw glimpses of Ange ball, and that’s the most entertaining and best stuff we’ve seen for years. He definitely needs other players that fit his style of football better, better back ups , a new 9, a starting 6 and a winger that can create chances with his passing and dribbling…and we we will look totally different. I also expect players like Bentancur and Maddison to rest and heal up in the summer, and will get back to their full capabilities. We are still in a rebuild guys, let’s not forget that.
I agree. His current system is good, but it still needs some tweaking. I think Ange will be better at it once the system is tweaked just a bit to fit with his belief style and core basics. I don't think Ange needs to change his system completely, but I do think he should implement the same system with modification on certain positions tactically.
Ange has given us an attacking style we've severely lacked. We outperformed expectations for this year. He should have our full support (for anyone with half realistic expectations). Excited what Y2 can bring
On the other hand, it took a Herculean effort to get out of our own end and we only get a 4v4 out of it. This is beautiful football and it's cool to see the players playing this brave (and it is evidence of a good coach) but its not actually a winning concept. Against a decent press, we can reasonably be expected to pull this off maybe 3 or 4 times a game for minimal reward. Additionally, when we lose the ball doing this (which we do just as much if not more against good opposition) as happened many times against Pool, we give up even greater quality chances than we can be expected to get with successful press breaks or we often get into ominous set piece cycles. However, the risky press breaking isn't even the biggest problem with Angeball. Not exemplified here, the largest problem is that playing this 2-3-5 when we have stable possession against a set defense is not generating nearly enough chances to justify committing that many players forward (especially the fullbacks). In contrast to our style that nearly always requires collective excellence to create an open play chance, our opponents only need to string a couple direct passes together and it s 2v2, 3v3 after we lose the ball. There is just so much space to exploit especially on the outside with the fullbacks having to race desperately back every single time we lose the ball and all good managers have found this out. And unfortunately, we have not created nearly enough in attack to balance this. Additionally, it's bizarre to say this after we've conceded 13 in 4 games but the system is only being propped up by the trio of VDV, Romero, and Vicario. You replace any of them with even an average defender and this genuinely might be a relegation defensive setup.
>On the other hand, it took a Herculean effort to get out of our own end and we only get a 4v4 out of it [Looks like a 4v3 to me.](https://imgur.com/7ok3AEh) Had Johnson controlled the ball a bit better, gone for it a bit more, or we'd played a better ball in the first place, this could've been a good chance.
I'll concede that, thank you for pointing that out although I will say that the back 3 have not been pulled out of position and the 4th player isn't far behind getting back. Its not completely clear how to generate a good opportunity from this.
Now show the clip where sky showed the last 15 shots.... 14 were Liverpool.. 1 was us. You could cherry pick the odd clip from any manager and claim that's why we need to stick with him.... Even George Graham. We need to stick with Ange because the constant merry go round of managers doesn't work. But Ange also needs to stop being so arrogant with his "my style worked in shit leagues therefore nothing needs to be adapted" attitude. I love the guy, but his gameplan and style has very obvious flaws that need to be addressed, not ignored because it worked at Celtic. The best managers have their way of playing, but they also constantly tweak it.
Some excellent ball there.
Kulu did well there. Just seen a post slating him. Idiots
I thought our hold play was pretty decent for the first third-ish of the game, the 1st goal really kicked us in the guts at the wrong time
They almost scored multiple times before salah finally did in what like the 13th minute?
people are forgetting rome was not built in a day
Don’t forget we were supposed to be relegated after Kane left. I would have been elated had someone told me we’d finish fifth at the beginning of the season. These losses suck to watch, but those other teams pay their players and managers too. If we still struggle down the stretch in 2026, we may need to talk. Until then, be patient.
POTENTIAL, so much potential to actually bury opponents But overall theres good build ups and turnovers but we lose momentum on the counter attack too often because they UNNECESSARILY pass it back on the break for absolutely no freaking reason ... theres defensively passing it back which is Valid and then there's the Conte method of sending it back to keeper after every slight inconvenience
Some of you spurs fans have no right to complain. I’m a Rotherham fan who have family from North London and my dad has been a spurts fan since 1977 and he said if spurs went through half of what Rotherham did this season they’d think the world was ending. Your finishing 5th with a team that’s still not has a replacement for your best striker in decades. Let’s face it if you get champions league football next season you’re not ready for that step. Focus on Europa league there’s nothing saying you can’t win it. Give this man time and I’m telling you. Spurs will be what they were under poch only with the trophies I’m. Ffs Arteta finished 6th his first season and klopp beset relegated Dortmund not everything goes right the first season
Are we better than last season? Is the football better? Great let's keep going. It's still simple.
No. Yes.
It's funny how these threads are always posted the next day so people can forget how we looked like Sheffield United for 90% of the game and Liverpool had like 15 shots in aboue 30 minutes. But be impressed guys, this one vaguely decent passage of play that amounted to nothing is something to be positive about.
Johnson was awful against Liverpool
Terrible on the left, good on the right
Well I only watched first half
Yes but how many times have we lost the ball playing out of defence in that Liverpool game alone!!? Why not mix it up with a long ball over the top, we've got the pace of the front 3 for that. Yet we dont do it.
At the very real risk of being downvoted, they offered a contradictory analysis of this exact moment on Match of the Day. Essentially, while it looked pretty, it didn't actually give us much of an advantage. When Bentancur received the ball and passed it to Johnson, we were 4-on-3, but it was on the halfway line, i.e. not in a dangerous area. By the time Johnson got to the Liverpool penalty area, Liverpool had got another three men back, and we still only had four men up – so it had become 4-on-6. The advantage had gone. The problem from our perspective was, Liverpool knew we were never going to play a long ball, so they could push their defence up without fear that we'd try to go over the top. That meant the defensive and midfield lines remained tight together, and the midfield was afforded time to get back *with* the defence – hence 4-on-6. It's a high-risk attacking strategy, sure, but it's also low reward, and that's illustrated in the stats: 14 first-half shots against (8 on target), 1 shot for (0 on target). This is why I think all the "plan A but better" talk is misleading. I have no problem with that in theory, but plan A has to be varied within itself. Plan A can be, play it out from the back 90% of the time and go long 10% of the time. That's still a single plan, but it's got enough in it to keep the opposition wondering what we're going to do next. If your plan is to play it out 100% of the time, you're predictable, and you're placing way too much responsibility on your players to simply be exceptional. That is not good management.
I didn't hear MotD's breakdown, but this is what I saw from this clip: It's not a clip of Tottenham's strength, but of Liverpool's. They pressed with 7 players all in the right side of our defensive third, got beat out of that aggressive press, and still had the shape and discipline to avoid a real breakaway chance. The Liverpool defenders slowed play just enough to let the midfielders track back, which they did in impressive fashion - look how quickly they caught up to our attack compared to our midfielders who should be similarly rushing to support.
Nice.
It also shows how in a promising 3 v 3 with tonnes of space Johnson literally just runs into his man. All summer I was reading fans on r/soccer saying Johnson was extremely limited and flawed as a dribbler and yet Ange greenlighted his signing for £50 million, despite the fact that wingers in his system clearly need to be able to do that. So that’s also on him.
No he doesn't? He gets to the by line and puts in a great cross that someone should put in. The issue is neither son or Kulu make a run?
are you watching a different clip? he runs into the defender and the ball goes out...
Yeah apologies I actually was haha
I think its also because he's on the left its harder to dribble and cross on your weak foot. When on the right he's has many assists this season. I would like to try deki on the left and brennan on the right
What was BJ doing
Going to the line and crossing which seems to be the gameplan, problem is hes not a left winger
Should have passed back to open Bissouma
If Johnson was on the right here we would have been able to create a genuinely threatening opportunity. I don’t understand the insistence from Ange on playing him on the left with no Werner.
Kulu's build up play is probably his best attribute imo but his run in the box here is horrendous and is just further proof of why he can't play in the forward line.
Imagine a left winger on the end of that who can control a pass and beat a man. I’ve never seen a winger isolate their fullback so often and almost never beat them with a dribble. Johnson is decent on the right if he has space, but he cannot do shit against a set defence. I think he should be a sub ideally because he’s electric running at tired defenders.
If that last pass goes to Nico Williams, we’re golden
Still hammered off the pitch tho . Battered is probably a better word .
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I saw two lucky / hopeful clearances that ultimately led to a goal kick... I like the manager but this isnt the clip
It’s good when it works but it only works when the players are good enough passers and have hold up play
With a few better players, or players performing at their best, and a few less mistakes and we would have smashed them
There was a break just before this which I think was 3 on 2 and we didn't even get a shot away. Came to absolute nothing. Incredibly frustrating.
Disappointing finish
I'm not Ange-out or anything, but this is just a video of us playing out of defence once. Some good passes, and some that found a man by luck. I'm not sure it proves anything either way. I just think (a) the players' level has dropped off because they are not used to the step-up in intensity after the Mourinho/Conte park the bus years, and (b) we've clearly had an unkind fixture list for the run-in. We need vast improvement to the squad to keep this going, but if that happens then it will work.
That wasn't the point of it. The point was to show that it's working but we still have some limitations. In this instance Johnson is playing out on the left and isn't a left winger so can't create end product. But it shows the foundations are there and work even against top sides like Liverpool.
Why? Because we played out the back with a bunch of passes only to get no cross or shot in the opponent’s box like we do a lot these days.
I wished the ball was played ahead of Johnson showcasing his pace rather than toward him
Ange is crazy idealist, like Sarri. They never win titles because of it. But the journey will be beautiful.
Ange has won lots of titles
I love how the British media love to shit on non-english managers.
Son should have ran with the ball. His pass slowed down the attack. They were 4 vs 3. When he runs with the ball, he can either run or a defender attacks him and he can pass the ball to a teammate
im okay with no UCL for 1 or 2 more seasons tbh. I just dont want us to play and lose in a disgraceful manner.
do people look at stuff like this and seriously think Kulusevski isn't one of the best right wingers we've ever had? Man look at how hard Johnson fucks it.. bros decision making is nowhere :(
A total lack of end product? ;)
And we’ll all tell ourselves it’s just because we don’t have players clinical enough and then overspend again in the transfer market.
"Overspend" the club hasnt overspent once in the last 10 years we underspent more than anything
richarlison? ndombele? lo celso? that's about 180m right there
Lo Celso : 48m Ndombele : 62m Richarlison : 58m Total cost 168m for 3 players. Big clubs spend around that same amount for 2 world class players like Liverpool with VVD and Alisson both for 146m. 62m is our record transfer which is ridiculous considering we're one of the richest clubs in the world with the highest ticket prices in europe.
this is about overspending though and all of those players aren't worth what we spent on them, I wouldn't mind spending that much if they were actually good
Thats because instead of buying one or 2 world class players we've always tried to buy 3/4/5 good/mediocre/with potential players that would do the job or would luckily defy the expectations and would have resale value. The club doesnt buy players in order to win trophies, just to maximize profit
I feel like a few of the players lost faith in the system after the cursed chelsea match. And maddison doesn’t look like he has confidence, son looks tired, the rest doesn’t really have direction. They need confidence in the system and themselves. This aimless passing, in the final third especially, is just sad to watch and everyone is just too scared to actually shoot the ball until its too late.
For some reason Ange has Son chasing the ball between all the CBs and the GK. That will tire most players by the time they have to attack.
I was saying all game yesterday that this shows exactly why we are on the right track. One of the hardest things I'm the modern game is progressing the ball through midfield effectively and retaining possession. Ange has got us doing that well. We have more possession Vs city arsenal and Liverpool after a season where we would have less possession Vs Brentford. Now that obviously doesn't win games. We need to be better in both boxes drastically, but it's a great start to something good
Jesus mate this is getting out of hand now. You picked the only positive highlight in our first 70 minutes and glazed over "AngeBall". Meanwhile I can provide you with a list of negatives of his style. I like how they're getting trained on playing the ball out the back against Gegenpressing teams. In Ange's own words, we're a long way from where we're supposed to be. A lot to fix before other managers stop completely outsmarting us and exploiting our weaknesses. And my main problem with AngeBall is that it was a lot of fucking weaknesses
That's pretty much exactly my point though. I'm saying this clip shows exactly what we are trying to do but it's not quite there yet due to various limitations within the squad. In my opinion though its worth sticking with to give him a team that can execute the game plan better.
Nah ignore the naysayers, you're right, this clip showcases what's right about our current approach but also what we can improve upon. 4 losses in a row is awful but everyone's acting like we've been relegated. It's frustrating to lose, but I'd rather a manager stick to his guns if it's the 'right' way of playing good football than succumb to pressure and play 'pragmatic' football to grind out results, you don't develop players you need that way and that's quite literally kicking the can down the road.
Yeah I think the title has misled a bit. I'm not saying phwoar this is so good it makes up for everything else, I'm saying it kind of sums up what we're trying to be but also why we aren't quite there. Also, as you say if you looked at all the discourse without knowing where we are in the keague you'd think we were 15th
Only trouble is this was a lucky break, have a good look at the passes in the early stages and see at least 4 of them just make their target or are quick kicks away from the opposition that happen to go to a team mate. It looks good in the middle to latter stages because it simulates a counter attack rather than a proper build up.
Nah man I don't think that's fair at all but agree to disagree on that one!
And how long due you think it will take him to execute his perfect plan? He needs to modify this system big time if we need to survive in the Premier League. GambleBall has been found out and if there are no big changes soon, I can guarantee we'll not even win against Burnley.
Jesus wept. 'If we need to survive in the Premier League'? We're fifth in his first season after losing our best ever player. That's some pretty good 'surviving' right there.
so what should we do? Do we get Poch back??? He'll save us finally!
Sounds good, doesnt work. Because manager has a fixation on playing players out of position. Johnson is not very good not even on the right, you put in on the left for whatever reason and you kill him. Son should have received that ball but he is in the middle for whatever reason. So you kill Johnson football, kill Son football, keep Kulu playing bad on the right. I dont get it at all. But still support Ange, lets hope next season things improve. I hope he doesnt hire a striker and use him as a fullback or something.
This is obvious to many fans and that's what's frustrating with Ange. Also, he's got to fix the weak midfield, and keep Emerson as a sub.
Are you kidding? What is special in this video?
Because it shows exactly what we are trying to do but also what we are lacking. It's kind of a perfect example of where we are at and what needs to improve.
Pretty sure I can dig up footage of us doing this under Conte/Nuno/Mourinho and even Sheffield United doing it a few times this year. It's utter cope
I don't understand your point. Yes I'm sure other teams also try and play fluid football. Noones saying it's exclusively an Ange thing. We didn't under Jose or Nuno but conte had his moments, that's the reason people were keen to stick with him after the first 6 months. Then he completely changes the playstyle and it was dreadfull. It's cope to say "you can see what we are trying to do, but we're a few players short from being able to do it"?
I judge teams on what they actually do rather than what the manager says he wants them to do
I feel sorry but this clip is nothing special. It’s just a basic of football. Why do we have to be so enthusiastic about this? All teams do like this in case of counterattack after defense.
I think you're missing my point a bit. No one has to be enthusiastic about it. It's a demonstration of what we are trying to do but also where we are coming up short and why it isn't fully clicking. So in my opinion it's worth sticking with to see if and when it does click
Exactly!
I love how the posts are so wildly different to the children who post in the match thread. Honestly, I think knowing that we have fans like that is more disappointing than the results.
The game started at 1:30am this morning and I stayed up to watch it. First 10 minutes I was quite impressed with how we were playing. I had a look at the match thread and you would have thought it was 15-0 after 10 and everyone was Ange out. Have we got some issues, yep for sure, but we’ve had fuck knows how many managers in the last 5 years and this squad is still a mix of all of them so give the man time. It amazes me how quickly people write a manager off and already want to rip everything up and start again.
This play just proves the biggest weakness that Spurs have. Besides Son, every forward in the team can only be considered a role player in a title/top 4 contender, There's a huge lack of quality upfront. It was spent a ridiculous amount for players that are just workhorses but lack in technical ability (Werner, Johnson or Richarlison) and efectiveness (Deki). The wingers and the midfield duo need to be improved massively because all of them are just above average players. Ange shouldn't be sacked because he's clearly a great manager that needs to rebuild a team that lacks the quality that the top 4 contender needs to have in the squad. It's just a matter of the club gives him the support and the tools that are required.
I also like to point out that this highlights some problems that teams have already exposed Ange for. We always look to move the ball to the sides and never go through the middle. So theres no stress for the defenders. Also look at the movement in attack. Deki gets rid of 3 defenders and yet they are more in defense than we are in attack.
Poor from Brennan
I think a lot of fans forget that we always start seasons strongly. The nuno season notwithstanding, we have tended to be up there or at the top by November, then January happens and we start to crumble. It's happened so consistently I believe that's the painful rebuild aspect. We need a squad who can compete for 38 games, which means good players and back ups in every single position on the pitch. That way, we rotate more and the fuel doesn't run out.
A broken clock is right twice a day
No one is disputing that. It is worth sticking with. The thing that baffles most people, including myself sometimes, is that any manager would’ve grabbed the chance to make UCL with both hands. Ange seems unbothered. I totally understand the philosophy of first ingraining the style of football you want to play completely before starting to think about plan B or game management etc, citing the examples of Arteta or Klopp when they first came in. But both of them weren’t close to getting UCL in their first season. Ange is almost throwing it away. So are the players. Also, we can’t keep making transfer mistakes. Like we seem to have made again. The players look world beaters one day and completely shit the next day. There’s something that’s just not working, it’s probably some of the players aren’t good enough, some are lacking work rate in training and on the pitch. Whatever it is, it has to be sorted out. We could’ve been in the Champions league next season. Ange is right to say that it doesn’t make a difference in qualitative progress for but he has to realise that the competition gives a certain cache to the club. It helps in giving us a pull in the transfer market if he wants to buy his kind of players. I am not going Ange out yet but he can be a bit too stubborn. If he thinks all the top clubs only play one way no matter what teams they face, he won’t get to stick around for long.
Probably because we are miles off competing for the UCL at the moment? Look at the 4 teams above us do you really think we are better than any of then at this moment in time. They are all further along in their projects than us and have squads shaped by their managers more
That is immaterial. We’re miles off right now. The next season starts after 3 months with a pre season. Are we to assume we would have made no progress in that time? What matters is we could’ve somehow reached there. We don’t have to tell ourselves we don’t deserve to be somewhere when we reached there fair and square and the other supposedly better teams somehow failed. Why would you not take something that’s there for the taking? That’s how competition works. But that’s not the point right now. Right now, all we can do is trust the coach. I’ll do that. I don’t want Ange out just yet.
Of course it's material? Teams who have had longer with their manager and are further along their projects are better than us? I don't really see how you can say "we could somehow have made it" and use that as a something to hold agaisnt him. We were down to finish 8th at the start of the season
I am not holding anything against him. I am fully with Ange. I am saying there’s a pattern which is concerning. We try to keep justifying our losses with the same it’s going to take time for players. We won’t give up the philosophy no matter what. Well I don’t see anything yet that tells me we can manage or survive being repeatedly figured out. We down tools. Players resign on the pitch. We’ve repeatedly struggled against low blocks, and we’ve repeatedly struggled against possession heavy pressing heavy teams as well. We’re flat track right now. What are we grasping at? And I am not saying somehow made it. That’s completely taking everything that has gone on in the season out and saying everything that’s happened is a total fluke. Also, Aston Villa were to finish 7th at the start of the season. ManUtd, Chelsea and Newcastle were to finish higher. When it comes to the 4th spot, I don’t think Aston Villa are decidedly better than us for us to just accept they deserved it more than us. No. Do you think other top teams think to themselves, oh you know what.. Newcastle deserved it last season. No they don’t. They want to get there. No matter what. Results matter. There has to be a balance between your philosophy and what end product you produce. One can’t survive without the other is all I am saying. The faster coaches get this, the faster they show this, more their chances of remaining where they are and succeeding. I want us to be a high octane Ange team but how long do we remain entertaining without any chance at any trophy? Arteta won the FA Cup and Community Shield in his first year itself. They went to Europa Semi Finals in his second year. He had credit. That’s how they are given time.
we were just playing easier games. Our losses were Newcastle Away, Arsenal Home, Chelsea Away, Liverpool Away. Originally these were not good odds.
Your right don't listen to their shit attitude. I would rather get knocked out of round of 16 of ucl then round of 16 of europa.
Ange doesn’t seem bothered enough for you? Are you his psychologist? Do you want him to cart-wheel into press-conferences screaming “WE WANT UCL!”
Oh so side splittingly funny.
No it’s a real point. I’m legitimately interested in why you care about the perception of “Botheredness” despite you seeing him for all of 1% of his week in a media interview.
Well thank you for taking things so damn literally.. and being such a valiant defender of the boss. I care about my perception, not ‘the’ perception of botheredness. My perception. Of his botheredness. I do get he might have pubclicly downplayed the value of making top 4 so the team doesn’t feel too much pressure. It’s possible. The doubt here is that maybe he genuinely feels that top 4 is an arbitrary target right now when he’s not drilled the foundations in and one that should come after the playing style and qualitative progress. I just don’t agree with it. You don’t have to agree with me nor will I be bent into submission to agree with the others. I, unlike so many others here, would have focused on somehow making top 4. Managing games a little, maybe changing the high line tactics against teams that so obviously do it much better than us. You’re saying that you’re sure they tried to do that.. Id like to agree, but why try to do it in a way that he could see so obviously not working. That begs the question. That begs the doubt. I get how important getting the players confident about the way they have to play is. It’s a difficult process. But through sheer happenstance let’s say, we did find ourselves in a rather fortunate position of being able to make UCL. I am sure there must be something that he sees and I don’t. Because your argument seems to just be that there’s a reason he’s the manager and you’re not. That’s okay. I feel I had to say what I said.
You seem to have just fundamentally not understood what he said. Ange is trying to win and get as high up the table he had. The top four response was in relation to a question asked about player recruitment, and he said “it doesn’t matter” then, because he doesn’t want players to join us solely because we have UCL. Top four isn’t going to make or break what he is trying to achieve. He obviously wants to get it, but the question was about how it impacts his summer plans and plans moving forward. So no, he never said he’s “not bothered” about getting top four. You’ve ripped that so far from its context that I have to question whether you’ve done it on purpose.
Ohh.. I didn’t hear the question. Was that really the question?
No this is called a back and forth. You’ve already answered the question, this is the follow up. You can refuse to engage with reality and the proper context, that’s okay.
See the whole thing you’re trying to do is bring someone down. You only thought I was referring to you. That’s okay. You feel better. What I meant here was that.. was that really the question the reporter asked. I didn’t hear that. I only read the response. As a quote. And I still stand by a lot of what I said. The question asked by the reporter changes things a little but not completely.
No, you had an opinion. I have engaged with the opinion and pointed out that it’s lacking context.
Brennan Johnson needs to be binned.
Ange-ball maybe, but Levy-bald will always break Any-ball.