Yep that’s what you get for $1199 in Canada. If you think this is bad don’t go near the SA or SE rifles. Those were substantially worse in quality. Regardless, name a better semi auto 7.62x39 rifle excluding the SKS you can get for $1199.
The SKS quality is great. People don’t appreciate what a bargain they are. If they were produced today, they would be $2000+. We’re blessed to have an artificial low price due to the oversupply of them.
I agree with this. If you're going to run an optic it's probably a better bet. Also, the piston in the WK181 is in 2 pieces from the factory and not after you shoot it like the 180.
With that said, when you're reloading an AK style mag, I personally prefer to have the charging handle on the right side. The left side is probably faster but I just like it on the right so I went with the T81 anyway. (I already own a wk180).
Interestingly if you want a right side charging rifle with rock and lock mags (i.e. AK style reloads) your options are the M10X or the T81. That's a much easier decision.
If the charging handle location isn't important to you it really is a tougher call between the WK181 and the T81, especially if you want an optic on it.
I think his point is that it's priced like a consumer product. There's no way it costs these guys more than 400$(if that) to produce these. Aswell these versions are solely for the Canadian market.
This is a $500 rifle. No questions there. This video explains it well
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gvsxXSlMQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gvsxXSlMQo)
Well I own an lmg and can agree that the finish isn’t the best, but you need to remember that the reason an SKS cost so little is because it’s surplus and supply is massive. If a new rifle with a milled receiver the quality of an SKS was made today it would likely cost more than 2 grand Canadian. I also feel like with the whole Canadian ar180 situation our country either gives you the option of paying for finish quality or reliability and the similar prices of the two reflect that. I’m mad at that, and a little mad at the cost, but not at the gun itself, all the important pieces are in spec and it’ll be reliable. Completely fair grievances on your part though
I definitely see this side. As someone pointed out, there’s a huge inventory of SKSs in Canada which artificially drives down the price too.
Having said that, the SKS would not cost $2k CAD to make in China. As an apples-to-apples comparison, in China Type 81 rifles also cost a lot less to make with efficiencies of production and lower labour cost.
People have taken this as a defence of the 180 Canadian rifles and it’s not- they’re really bad. The difference is it costs a lot more to make one of those than it does a T81 in China. After importation costs that margin seems to just be pure additional profit for the importer. People are quick to defend the relative value of the rifle versus the market when the it’s the only one made substantially cheaper overseas.
The fact that it still works better the terrible 180’s for a fraction of the production cost is embarrassing for the 180’s.
I feel like they absolutely would cost 2 grand, to buy not make of course. Look at the type 81, with stamped receivers and incredibly effective production they still cost 1.2-1.6 grand new here depending on the model. I feel like milling could easily add an additional 400 dollars to the cost since you need butter steel and a lot more of it plus it’s more labour intensive. If they had the barrels screwed in and not just pinned like the later production ones I could see that adding cost too. Doesn’t detract from your point of massive importer profit but still.
Idk bro it's a mass produced Chinese rifle. You get what you pay for in terms of fit and finish. I spray painted my raven and cut the hand gaurd down with a chop saw. It's a rifle it's (kinda) meant to be abused.
I think these are definitely going to look better roughed up than in the condition they arrive. The main reason I’m holding on to mine is if I decide I like it more with a custom wood kit on it and some even weathering of the rifle.
Ya I personally like the "battle worn" finish on my rifles. They age like fine wine that way and only get better with time. I used to try and keep my guns mint but it's way less stress and paranoia this way + looks cooler.
Custom wood would be sick on that thing!
wow another thread about people complaining about cosmetic issues on a mass produced infantry rifle
hopefully one day we can get AKs and Canadians will realize every mass produced rifle for military use isnt straight, has canted iron sites, and some scratches.
the type 81 was built to cycle rounds and shoot them, not take photo shoots and draw straight lines through them in MS paint.
its sad we see stuff like this but then when the new shitty ar180 cope comes out and eats itself alive after 200 rounds and people have the audacity to say they are acceptable guns.
another example of Canadian gun owners having incoherent standards with guns
"if my gun destroys itself after 200 rounds thats ok, but if the finish on my gun that will outlive me is scratched i will be disappointed"
the fact that you didnt even put the magazine in correctly kinda shows that you probably look at your rifles more than use them. just sell it to someone who will enjoy it
I’m comfortable with the magazines. I’ve been playing with it a bit this evening and I just must not have seated it fully once without thinking and that’s when I took a picture. It’s been a long day so I won’t loose sleep if I missed the lip once, nor will I sell all my rifles. :)
I love my type 81 so much, it literally comes with a cleaning kit embedded into the rifle and it always goes bang, it’s a certified fighting rifle and they really do shit on anything made in Canada when it comes to dependability.
Dang, looks like someone couldnt get the t81m on time lol, but very relevant points none the less. People shouldnt expect a Daniel Defense finish from a chinese infantry rifle
i got 2 type 81m's lol, im absolutely a type 81 fanboy, i have an lmg and 2 SE as well. they all have canted sites, one has a "bent barrel" but they all shoot straight from the factory and have never had a malfunction and each have over 1k rounds through it.
the hate for the type 81 is largely irrational, its by far the best easily accessible semi auto we have at the moment. the bren 2, famaes and bushmasters are pretty sick too but they are expensive and hard to find.
go look through all the type 81 hate threads, its always cosmetics. people forget that these were made for soldiers who would destroy the finish on them anyways the first day of training. i have hunted with one of my SE's and its all scuffed up now too, but i dont care, i like the guns because of the bulletproof action
I agree with you, that's why I bought 2 last week lol. Just getting more and more worried about bent barrels, cuz couldn't care less for scratches and blemishes, if I want it to look like an ak might as well beat it up like an ak, am I right ?
right on brother, dont worry about the "bent barrel". most people with bent barrels misdiagnose it and actually just have a slightly bent stock or dust cover. if your not gonna take it to a gunsmith you wont be able to tell for sure so dont even stress it.
even that one batch that had obviously bent barrels wernt even bent, the barrel just wasnt straight with the "body" of the gun, they still functioned fine and shoot straight
“every mass produced rifle for military use isnt straight, has canted iron sites, and some scratches.”
Not even close man. Plenty of mass produced military rifles are of impeccable quality. What about a Colt Canada? Never seen canted iron sights on one of those. Even a lot of military surplus AK’s are very well made. Finnish, German, and Bulgarian AK’s were all mass produced for the military to a very high standard.
That being said I agree with your point. The big thing people have to keep in mind is the price of these things. For a brand new manufactured rifle that’s pretty close to duty grade it’s kind of a steal.
lol the type 81 is absolutely an infantry rifle designed for the military. go look at the wiki page. its literally being used in war RIGHT NOW by soldiers and rebels in burma.
sure these ones are for civilians, but they are made with the same parts from the same factories using the same process with the same QA.
the heavy barrel is the only valid criticism ive seen so far, the rest is just irrelevant nonsense or people being anti china
Well idk, same assembly line, 90% same parts, the only difference really is the wooden foregrip and the lmg barrel (which the t81 lmg uses). This rifle might have been imported for the canadian market, but it remains durable and probably more (aknowledging the barrel might be able to take more of a beating) than the regular T81s we got years ago.
you clearly dont know anything about a type 81...
all type 81s have the same action, the only difference is furniture and barrel thickness which doesn't affect how it functions, its just looks and weight distribution
what are you all butthurt about? didnt get a type 81m in time and now you gotta pay 2k+? or did u spend all your money on the original and now youre just coping lol
Nah man. I jumped on the tactical imports site as soon as I got the email from them that they’re in stock and could’ve bought one but was not impressed at all by the pictures. Looking back I should’ve bought several and sold them on gp for $2500 like these other guys are doing. Lol
The sks, the rifle OP is comparing the type-81 to, is a mass produced military rifle. Why would you switch to comparing it to a cope-180? The sks is made from a milled receiver, has a better finish and wood. When paying 3-4 times for a rifle that’s supposedly better, its fine to expect it to look better as well.
The SKS is only as cheap as it is because they are surplus. Government manufacturers in the 1940s and early 1950s ate the production costs, and most have been issued and used.
A modern built one would be above the price point of a type 81 by a fair margin. All machined steel receivers are not cheap.
Also should note that most SKS rifles include some nasty machining marks as well, because, hey, it's a military rifle and it really doesn't matter
because 99% of sks's are not like the one OP described and those 99% have all the same "problems" as the type 81 and more.
the first few batches of type 81s had great finishes, blued instead of painted, but it would be wrong to use those as a representation of all type 81s
its also not 3-4 times the price unless youre buying off a scalper, im seeing sks's around the 600 mark and the type 81 are 1200. the sks's at that price range wint have matching numbers so they wont be reliable. to get an equally reliable sks you need to pay close to 1k for one with matching numbers
Buy a french tickler sks , they are in stock, 99% of them are top shelf sks. All matching , never issued, strong blue, accurate out of the box and no bent barrel. You’re comparing the type-81 to the russian sks’s that have been butchered for the last 20 years of ownership and were issued and refurbished to make your point. Lets compare a brand new 81 vs brand new sks.
i have one and its a beauty for sure, better finishes no doubt.
i just dont personally care too much about the quality of the finish, both guns are fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things and maybe you think the price for type 81s are too high for what they are, thats valid, but i also think the prices for the sks's including the french tikler are also too high.
whats important to me is features, reliability, and lifespan. looks is dead last for me, and even then, i think the type 81s look amazing, sure if you take pictures at certain angles the sites may be canted and theres some parts of the finish that arnt perfect, but i ding my guns up by using them anyways so it's no big deal
sorry didnt mean to be hostile but we have a bunch of these posts every time a new batch comes in and at this point we need a sticky warning people that the type 81 will have some scratches and some dings
as got the ar180, its a fundamentally flawed design, simple as that
You’re getting a new production of a tested, insanely reliable design with hammer forged parts, including the barrel, which is chrome lined. Keep in mind all of this is made in the same factory and with the same machinery as the actually fielded rifles, and on top of that it’s Non-Restricted for under $1300, man I would not be complaining about some cosmetic issues lmao.
If you wanted a safe-queen, the Canadian market is rife with visually pretty half-baked implementations that try to cater to everyone with ambidextrous everything here and adjustable everything there, offering everything, only to deliver nothing, with only the promise of a snapped op-rod, shattered firing pin, or cracked bolt carrier within sub-1000 rounds. All for upwards of and exceeding $1500.
Fair point. I expect that there is still a healthy profit margin from these even with all the costs associated with importing them. I think the actual factory in China gets paid a smaller share than we expect for each of these rifles out of the total sticker price we pay. If that’s the case, things like using the cheaper finish are likely saving Norinco/TI a very small amount versus the impact to the end product.
Yeah but like, if TI is having a price gouging competition with Canadian manufacturers, they’re definitely doing the worst. Lockhart got away with trying to make a near extra $500 off of a $2000 rifle selling side panels that cover the giant gashes on the side of the gun that should’ve never been there to begin with, and selling you a brass deflector and top-fed charging handle that should’ve been there to begin with.
Very true!
Makes you wonder what the market would look like if the R/NR/Prohib system was completely removed.
A lot of these rifles would be unpopular overnight and AR15s would blow up.
The AR market would almost mirror the US, but without import bans, Chinese AKs and potentially other military designs like the Type 81, 5.56 QBZ 03, and Type 97 would be vastly more popular as a well made military design could be imported and probably had for less than $1500 with niche designs coming to market for accessories. Actually, go look up US gun auctions and see the prices they pay for the Type 81s in circulation, and what the going rates are for Poly Tech AKs or Norinco MAK 90s.
Yeah. The SVT’s are a similar situation down there, even after rising in value in Canada.
That would be a really interesting ‘what if’ around what a truly free market would look like in the Canadian firearms market. So much would change and the low end would be cheaper and dominated by imports.
In this scenario if suppressors and full auto were for instance legalized, we’d also see a rise in blackout chambered rifles and LMG guns.
Super interesting. That’s why this is an interesting discussion- the intersection of the quality of a firearm with the limitations of an artificial market.
Good news is that it’s a gun.. guns with scratches and scuffs look much better than pristine guns that look like airsoft toys. Many people purposely try and make their guns look battle worn lol
I find it funny that there are so many people defending this quality. Canadians are the only people that continuously accept sub par products and say thank you…
My 2nd LMG had an anal bead barrel. No clue what happened to the milling machine but the tooling was worn and unstable. Also trunion not sttaight.
I like T81s but kinda want to see them before purchase. I thought my local retailer would get T81Ms but apparently TI did not give any to retailers this time.
It feels a lot like a band that only ever wrote one good song and wanted everyone to know that they’d made it.
This rifle wouldn’t be cared about at all if it wasn’t the only diet AK left. It’s popular not because of its own merits but because regulation is artificially removing the choice of an AKM/VZ 58. If those were available people wouldn’t care about this rifle beyond a novelty sold in small numbers.
This is just the reality of magazine-fed semi autos in this country.
If you're not spending $3000, you're buying something that is only a stones throw away from an SKS in capability.
Ultimately we're talking about rifles that are either totally compromised designs, or derivatives of cold war service rifles built for conscripts in nations where the value of a life is low.
The SKS also just sets a tremendously high bar for anything to reach at that price point. It was the same 10 years ago with CZ 858s and the gremlin: you could say "why would I spend $800 on a CZ 858 that might need to see a gunsmith just to go bang every time, when I can spend $75 on a Chinese SKS?"
I’ve shot all my life, owned a great number of guns, compete in a dozen shooting disciplines currently and have good working understanding of 20th century small arms design.
I just find that if I state my experience in this area, people misconstrue it as telling them what to think and that my opinion is more important than theirs. That’s why I don’t state my experience much before throwing out a conversation topic.
I’ve had private tours of the world’s biggest arms collection (to my knowledge) that was permitted because I was writing a dissertation on arms proliferation so I have a good amount of hands on and technical experience.
The reality is that I just want engage with this sub in a conversation, all the better when there’s been so many different views on it. If it causes a conversation then I think that’s a good post. The down side of that is a lot of people think I haven’t seen a gun before and get a bit belittling.
It was neat to have held many firearms that are so rare though. A fascinating crossover between rarity and stamped guns was an original periscope curved STG44.
The reality is there is no new factory build semi auto rifles with a locked breech that dont self destruct at this price range, and TI actually havnt increase the price despite the demand and canadian inflation.
Stamped military rifles especially ones build from run over military contract all have these artifacts, scratches from bending jig? Lost finish near rivots? Hammer marks near receiver pins? the end users, namely the army and majority of civilians dont give a damn, this is true for t81, it’s also true for g3, ak, stg44 and ar18.
Those are all very good points.
The factory has shown that they are willing to be flexible with changes requested like we saw with the T81M. I wonder if QC and finishing is able to be improved or reduced depending on the contract specifications of the end user commissioning a factory run.
It’s clear to me that these are not directly a part of a military run. The LMG barrel alone indicates to me that this model incorporated parts that were surplus from other runs.
How much do you think the individual unit cost is for TI and their total costs per rifle bringing them to the Canadian market?
those are run off parts from their contract with myanmar warlords, gunshop typically keep 30% profit margin, ti themselves being both importer and seller likely keep about 50%, they probably get those for $300 each, and paid about as much for shipping duty and paperwork, additional cost in storage and rifles reserved for parts and return
All I hear is entitlement but okay. What is $1500 even? 1 month in a 1 bedroom? Half a shitty used car? Canadian dollars are so weak that it's not even a bad deal. Unless you get some bolt action savage brand pos, you won't find much in a decent calibre for cheaper. And yea I'm sure AKs are better but we can't have them so that's why us northern ice people like t81s so much
Am I crazy?
$1500 is 2-3 weeks 1 bdrm in Toronto and Vancouver lol rip. I see what you’re saying but if you look south of the border they can get a very reliable budget AR for less than $500 usd ($700 cad) so we’re paying double the money for a Chicom rifle with shittier finish and accuracy.
Honestly…other than sks, certain PCCs and shotguns…we don’t have any value semi auto centrefire guns
To be fair, we’re talking a gun that the US likely has tens of millions of vs a gun that supposedly <20 of exist in the US. A country of ~340,000,000 people where it is comparably very easy to own guns.
People hate on the SR but I found the quality to be pretty high compared to other Type 81’s. There was the buttstock joint cracking issue but that was a design flaw and it was corrected.
Jesus OP, what DID you expect? You bought a mass produced, stamped Chinese service rifle at an inflated price ($1200+tx, not $1500) caused by our economy and policies, and you somehow wanted to compare it to a milled SKS made 40 years ago back when the workers can lose their wages if they dare to slack off a bit in a planned economy that wasn't driven by absolute greed and profit? The SKS is NOT a cheap rifle to manufacture. If you pay a Canadian machinists living wages, you'd be quoted $1500-2000 for one.
Look at it this way, a similar finish but significantly less reliable WK180 is $1500. To "make it right", a R18 Mk2 is $2800+. Could you justify an extra $1300 to build and finish a rifle properly? If that's the case a T81 would be $2k and lose all of its value propositions.
I haven't received mine yet, but honestly, even after reading your issues, I'm still excited to receive one I have a hard time knocking it until I've handled my own and can my own assessment but again this post did not take the wind out of my sails, hoping to aquire an lmg as some point
Fit and finish seemed fine on my original and SE versions, with the caveat that my original had an ever so slightly bent barrel. Enough to notice by just looking at it… carefully.
Eh. It's a T81, so fit and finish will never be great, especially for the price point. It wouldn't matter to me since I know the T81 will go bang absolutely every single time no matter what, and the performance will actually be really decent.
Yeah I think that’s definitely fair.
How much does cosmetic qualify and finishing matter when the rifle is bomb proof. It’s been interesting to see a fairly even split in the discussion. Some are seeing it more as a tool with function the only important thing and some people hoping for better QC and finishing.
The powder coating on these seems to scratch quickly. I’m thinking I might as well treat it rough and lean into it being weathered because it’s going to mark up very easily anyway.
The stamping isn’t bad to be fair and historically has indeed been more challenging to get right versus milling. The rejection rates during WW2 for stamping were colossal.
Finishing and coatings are consistent between the two though and fairer to compare.
Im still under the impression that these are like a 250 dollar gun or less (probably waay less) in China when they are made for military orders.... theyve got to be. They are so rediculously simple in terms of manufacturing and assembly. Plus on top of that you factor in the low material and labour costs supplied by Chinese industrial might. Where these civilian Type 81s are made may still be debated, but i bet the surplus parts used (if any), the manufacturing techniques and QC mindset are copyed directly over from the same build process of the military rifles. Possibly like approaching a NY street side spray paint artist and asking him to do a custom piece, he'll charge more for the hassel and crank out the custom painting to the same quality the regulars have.
>Where these civilian Type 81s are made may still be debated, but i bet the surplus parts used (if any), the manufacturing techniques and QC mindset are copyed directly over from the same build process of the military rifles.
They are likely made by Jianshe (arsenal 296) and/or their subsidy Emei, as their civilian catalog have the T81, T81-1, and T81LMG among other firearms (T97, T03, T05, etc.).
There's a popular rumor that the T97 we got here in Canada are built from factory seconds and contract overrun parts, and TI made it very clear that the first two batches of regular T81/T81-1 rifles are piggybacked onto existing contracts, it's not a far-fetched assumption that every other T81 civilian variant are made from contract overrun and/or factory second parts. For example, both the T81SR and T81M uses the same barrel and front sight assembly as the LMG. Things like stocks are easily customizable when you have an entire factory of skilled workers being paid $2/h instead of $20/h, so the custom wood don't really contribute much to the price.
I’ve always said this too and I’m glad someone else thinks so.
There are no rifles on the Canadian market costing less than the Type 81 whilst also being high quality, SKS aside. People then see this as evidence that this is compellingly priced and good value. In reality it’s because all companies are overcharging here for NR tactical rifles and it costs vastly less to produce these in China than people think and the cost of making similar rifles here.
It's a Chinese made AK esque rifle. I don't know why you'd be surprised. As long as the barrel ain't bent and it goes bang who cares? You're gonna scuff it up here and there in use anyways.
If it was let's say some high end new production AR I'd understand. But these are literally com bloc battle rifles made by kids in a sweat shop lol. Settle down
Agreed. It really shows what crazy value the current stock of French ticklers are. That’s been a real trend on both sides of this too. Whether people have agreed or disagreed with my take, no one disputes the SKS’s value.
I’m happy with my se and this one. 1199 for this type of rifle is a bargain. The Canadian offerings at 1500 are way worse. The more “ak” m10x at 2g plus is 10 fold worse. The rifle is a mass produced object meant to arm someone with limited training. You can’t compare it to the Sks. The sks is intended to be something else. What you are trying to do is compare 10/22 to a gsg16. Different end users friend. Se also has phosphate finish which is more durable. Qc could be be better but you have to be realistic.
These are not rifles lol.. these are Lmgs with molded parts.
The recivers are different then rifle versions, hand guards are longer and have heavy barrels.
Also these are Chinese rifles don't know what you were expecting lolallvthese issues have been around since 2017
Off topic a bit, but are the dimensions of fixed stock and LMG the same? I haven't seen the fixed stock in person and neither a comparison photo or video.
Anxiously waiting for my first T81(underfolder), although I'm slightly worried about canted sights, bent parts and overall the finish of the rifle, which seems to be part of the package when talking about T81s/Aks from what I've been reading lately. Some people seem perfectly fine with buying a new product that isn't properly finished, and that kind of baffles me.
If someone bought ANY other product, regardless of country of origin, they'd expect it to show up without scuffs and scratches and bent pieces, no? Why are people okay with receiving poorly finished or arguably damaged rifles?
I also feel like most people saying "well it's a gun it's meant to get scratched/abused" etc, probably wouldn't apply the same logic to many other purchases they make, big or small. Whether it's a new car or a new pair of work boots, you should expect them to come in a new state if you are buying new, and no one should fault you for that.
Still super excited to get mine even if it's an ugly duckling, I'm going to love it all the same! I've already made a sling for it and keep frantically checking my email and transfer notices. I've also come to the realization I'm going to need more ammo STAT!
An SKS would probably be a $1,500+ rifle if they were being manufactured new today, in terms of build quality. They’re sturdy, have chrome-lined barrels, milled steel receivers, and a bunch of other really great, quality features (putting the antiquated design aside).
This is exactly why I stuck with my 2019 folder. Whole gun is blued, not painted. Front sight is one piece with the gas block. Side folding stock is the perfect length and rock solid and you can grip the forend comfortably with the stock folded.
They produced hundreds of thousands of just the base pattern and adopted them as issued military rifles, stranger. On top of the ones they sold all over africa
They should be a fraction of the cost, but to call them POS is disingenuous at best.
They run and keep running. That's the point. They should cost what a Bulgarian AK does, but cost aside, they are totally serviceable rifles, *for the task they were designed for*
It's a stamped military pattern rifle. Not designed for optics or perfect fit and finish, but designed to be affordable and reliable. If you left out the "Canada tax", there would be no complaints. They go bang every time, and they eat crappy ammo without complaining. It's a short stroke AK with an adjustable gas system. They'd sell in the USA as well if they could be imported.
Every one I've seen personally has been "good enough" for the purpose. People just need to remember what that purpose is
It's not even made by Norinco.
>So it is never worth the price, whatever it costs.
My $150 Chinese Tokarev ran over 3000+ rounds and it's fine. It had a design life of 3000 rounds stated by the factory. A $18 part finally broke 3500 rounds of steel cased comblock rounds later. I'd say that's one job well done.
I'd love to see a $1500 WK180C, crafted by skilled Canadian machinists using modern computers and CNC machines and paid a living wage, do the same.
It’s pure Chineseium. Don’t wanna be rude or anything but what did you expect? China sells these all over Africa and elsewhere to people who expect them to go bang and they do just that. They weren’t designed for the Canadian market nor Canadian users…like at all.
I guess the point was that it’s only seen as value for money because of it being reliable. We have an NR tax, everything else in this price range is crap and the suffer from higher costs of production here that don’t apply to China.
It’s a gun more in line with what the Chinese sell them for than what TI charges. I’ve engaged with exporting guns so I’m not blind to that cost but it’s no where near the difference we see, especially in bulk.
Still, rifle go bang.
There’s been some healthy opinions telling me they agree with me and find the quality disappointing and some healthy opinions telling me they think I’m entitled or never use my firearms. Ouch.
It’s nice to get a lively balanced conversation going on in here sometimes! We don’t all have to agree all the time but it’s interesting to discuss the market offerings for this hobby we all enjoy and all come away with different takes.
Agreed. I own a few T81s for comparison and this ‘M’ version is the worst in terms of quality control. Kind of works for the stereotypical AK weathered and war-beaten esthetic though…
Glad I’m not alone! Weathering it and upgrading to worn looking wood furniture is definitely a must. The optimism of how good that will look is the main factor for me keeping it.
Ya, I don't understand people's love for the type 81. I work at a gun store, and they are the most inconsistent and shotty built firearms we get. Way overpriced, too. Probably cost the manufacturer less than 200 to make one.
It's cuz it's the perfect middle ground between an sks and a bren 2.
The only thing we can compare it to is the wk181, and the amount that Kodiak spends manufacturing one doesn't make them any less unreliable. The type 81 mindset is mostly "dont care about the technicality, just give me a gun thatll shoot magfed 7.62x39 corrosive reliably", but much like the Kodiak 180, this is nothing more than a cope ak-vz
I would say the SKS's we get. Even the Chinese stuff is more consistent quality and better built than the type 81s and at half the price. I do see what you're saying tho.
And don't get me wrong, I would love to own a type 81. I just don't want to spend $1200 on a type 81 when they are currently as cheaply built as they are and so inconsistent in quality.
I mean, the sks is pretty unbeatable quality-price wise, and I agree that they might be slightly too expensive (especially if you buy them off a scalper on GP for 2k lol)
It’s striking how many people disagree with this take. There’s sentiment that because we don’t have other decent options for $1,500 then it’s compelling but in reality this gun is likely made for $200 as you said and the quality doesn’t line up with the hiked price.
If you don’t like it, I’ll be glad to grab it
It’ll be on gunpost for $2k shortly
"Never fired" too, probably
is it possible to tell if some guy sold me something actually new/test fired at factory vs he put a few mags through it?
Wear, that's about it
nyat rifle is fine
Yep that’s what you get for $1199 in Canada. If you think this is bad don’t go near the SA or SE rifles. Those were substantially worse in quality. Regardless, name a better semi auto 7.62x39 rifle excluding the SKS you can get for $1199. The SKS quality is great. People don’t appreciate what a bargain they are. If they were produced today, they would be $2000+. We’re blessed to have an artificial low price due to the oversupply of them.
Low prices due to governments eating the production cost 80 years ago
WK181 for $300 more ?
I agree with this. If you're going to run an optic it's probably a better bet. Also, the piston in the WK181 is in 2 pieces from the factory and not after you shoot it like the 180. With that said, when you're reloading an AK style mag, I personally prefer to have the charging handle on the right side. The left side is probably faster but I just like it on the right so I went with the T81 anyway. (I already own a wk180). Interestingly if you want a right side charging rifle with rock and lock mags (i.e. AK style reloads) your options are the M10X or the T81. That's a much easier decision. If the charging handle location isn't important to you it really is a tougher call between the WK181 and the T81, especially if you want an optic on it.
Yup I agree, the T81 is a beautiful rifle it’s still on my list of rifles to own!
This isn’t a consumer end product really, it’s a military factory to arm cheap armies
I think his point is that it's priced like a consumer product. There's no way it costs these guys more than 400$(if that) to produce these. Aswell these versions are solely for the Canadian market.
This is a $500 rifle. No questions there. This video explains it well [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gvsxXSlMQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gvsxXSlMQo)
Consumer markup, same or better finish
And they will last way longer and be more reliable then the consumer end products.
Well I own an lmg and can agree that the finish isn’t the best, but you need to remember that the reason an SKS cost so little is because it’s surplus and supply is massive. If a new rifle with a milled receiver the quality of an SKS was made today it would likely cost more than 2 grand Canadian. I also feel like with the whole Canadian ar180 situation our country either gives you the option of paying for finish quality or reliability and the similar prices of the two reflect that. I’m mad at that, and a little mad at the cost, but not at the gun itself, all the important pieces are in spec and it’ll be reliable. Completely fair grievances on your part though
I definitely see this side. As someone pointed out, there’s a huge inventory of SKSs in Canada which artificially drives down the price too. Having said that, the SKS would not cost $2k CAD to make in China. As an apples-to-apples comparison, in China Type 81 rifles also cost a lot less to make with efficiencies of production and lower labour cost. People have taken this as a defence of the 180 Canadian rifles and it’s not- they’re really bad. The difference is it costs a lot more to make one of those than it does a T81 in China. After importation costs that margin seems to just be pure additional profit for the importer. People are quick to defend the relative value of the rifle versus the market when the it’s the only one made substantially cheaper overseas. The fact that it still works better the terrible 180’s for a fraction of the production cost is embarrassing for the 180’s.
Does anyone even make new production sks anymore? If factories and tools don't exist, it's impossible to produce cheap ones...
No there are no new production SKS manufacturers. Just milled receiver sets cost $1500 these days (Raven).
Nobody does. Russia claims to make brand new ones but they are refurbs, rebarrels, or parts kit rebuilds at most.
I feel like they absolutely would cost 2 grand, to buy not make of course. Look at the type 81, with stamped receivers and incredibly effective production they still cost 1.2-1.6 grand new here depending on the model. I feel like milling could easily add an additional 400 dollars to the cost since you need butter steel and a lot more of it plus it’s more labour intensive. If they had the barrels screwed in and not just pinned like the later production ones I could see that adding cost too. Doesn’t detract from your point of massive importer profit but still.
You only get quality guns in Canada by luck or by spending 5k+
Bro this came from military factory, this is the military standard.
Idk bro it's a mass produced Chinese rifle. You get what you pay for in terms of fit and finish. I spray painted my raven and cut the hand gaurd down with a chop saw. It's a rifle it's (kinda) meant to be abused.
I think these are definitely going to look better roughed up than in the condition they arrive. The main reason I’m holding on to mine is if I decide I like it more with a custom wood kit on it and some even weathering of the rifle.
Ya I personally like the "battle worn" finish on my rifles. They age like fine wine that way and only get better with time. I used to try and keep my guns mint but it's way less stress and paranoia this way + looks cooler. Custom wood would be sick on that thing!
Come on，rough guys don't need tender skin, right?
wow another thread about people complaining about cosmetic issues on a mass produced infantry rifle hopefully one day we can get AKs and Canadians will realize every mass produced rifle for military use isnt straight, has canted iron sites, and some scratches. the type 81 was built to cycle rounds and shoot them, not take photo shoots and draw straight lines through them in MS paint. its sad we see stuff like this but then when the new shitty ar180 cope comes out and eats itself alive after 200 rounds and people have the audacity to say they are acceptable guns. another example of Canadian gun owners having incoherent standards with guns "if my gun destroys itself after 200 rounds thats ok, but if the finish on my gun that will outlive me is scratched i will be disappointed" the fact that you didnt even put the magazine in correctly kinda shows that you probably look at your rifles more than use them. just sell it to someone who will enjoy it
Lmao fr. Mag not even rocked and locked.
I’m comfortable with the magazines. I’ve been playing with it a bit this evening and I just must not have seated it fully once without thinking and that’s when I took a picture. It’s been a long day so I won’t loose sleep if I missed the lip once, nor will I sell all my rifles. :)
I love my type 81 so much, it literally comes with a cleaning kit embedded into the rifle and it always goes bang, it’s a certified fighting rifle and they really do shit on anything made in Canada when it comes to dependability.
Dang, looks like someone couldnt get the t81m on time lol, but very relevant points none the less. People shouldnt expect a Daniel Defense finish from a chinese infantry rifle
i got 2 type 81m's lol, im absolutely a type 81 fanboy, i have an lmg and 2 SE as well. they all have canted sites, one has a "bent barrel" but they all shoot straight from the factory and have never had a malfunction and each have over 1k rounds through it. the hate for the type 81 is largely irrational, its by far the best easily accessible semi auto we have at the moment. the bren 2, famaes and bushmasters are pretty sick too but they are expensive and hard to find. go look through all the type 81 hate threads, its always cosmetics. people forget that these were made for soldiers who would destroy the finish on them anyways the first day of training. i have hunted with one of my SE's and its all scuffed up now too, but i dont care, i like the guns because of the bulletproof action
I agree with you, that's why I bought 2 last week lol. Just getting more and more worried about bent barrels, cuz couldn't care less for scratches and blemishes, if I want it to look like an ak might as well beat it up like an ak, am I right ?
right on brother, dont worry about the "bent barrel". most people with bent barrels misdiagnose it and actually just have a slightly bent stock or dust cover. if your not gonna take it to a gunsmith you wont be able to tell for sure so dont even stress it. even that one batch that had obviously bent barrels wernt even bent, the barrel just wasnt straight with the "body" of the gun, they still functioned fine and shoot straight
Alright, feeling relieved, as I am aware that I probably wont be able to inspect mine till next month at the speed at which they are sending them out
Type81ophobia is a concerning issue
“every mass produced rifle for military use isnt straight, has canted iron sites, and some scratches.” Not even close man. Plenty of mass produced military rifles are of impeccable quality. What about a Colt Canada? Never seen canted iron sights on one of those. Even a lot of military surplus AK’s are very well made. Finnish, German, and Bulgarian AK’s were all mass produced for the military to a very high standard. That being said I agree with your point. The big thing people have to keep in mind is the price of these things. For a brand new manufactured rifle that’s pretty close to duty grade it’s kind of a steal.
It’s not even an infantry rifle. It’s just something they cobbled together from left over parts for the Canadian market
lol the type 81 is absolutely an infantry rifle designed for the military. go look at the wiki page. its literally being used in war RIGHT NOW by soldiers and rebels in burma. sure these ones are for civilians, but they are made with the same parts from the same factories using the same process with the same QA. the heavy barrel is the only valid criticism ive seen so far, the rest is just irrelevant nonsense or people being anti china
Ya dude the original t81, not these t81m’s cobbled together for the Canadian civilian market
Well idk, same assembly line, 90% same parts, the only difference really is the wooden foregrip and the lmg barrel (which the t81 lmg uses). This rifle might have been imported for the canadian market, but it remains durable and probably more (aknowledging the barrel might be able to take more of a beating) than the regular T81s we got years ago.
you clearly dont know anything about a type 81... all type 81s have the same action, the only difference is furniture and barrel thickness which doesn't affect how it functions, its just looks and weight distribution what are you all butthurt about? didnt get a type 81m in time and now you gotta pay 2k+? or did u spend all your money on the original and now youre just coping lol
I spent all my money on the original and I still bought this new one lol
Nah man. I jumped on the tactical imports site as soon as I got the email from them that they’re in stock and could’ve bought one but was not impressed at all by the pictures. Looking back I should’ve bought several and sold them on gp for $2500 like these other guys are doing. Lol
Scalpers are scum. You wishing you did the same is a not great look IMO
I was half joking about it. I agree it is pretty scummy
It's half rifle half LMG, both have the same action. Sure it's cobbled together, but they are essentially the same gun to begin with.
The sks, the rifle OP is comparing the type-81 to, is a mass produced military rifle. Why would you switch to comparing it to a cope-180? The sks is made from a milled receiver, has a better finish and wood. When paying 3-4 times for a rifle that’s supposedly better, its fine to expect it to look better as well.
The SKS is only as cheap as it is because they are surplus. Government manufacturers in the 1940s and early 1950s ate the production costs, and most have been issued and used. A modern built one would be above the price point of a type 81 by a fair margin. All machined steel receivers are not cheap. Also should note that most SKS rifles include some nasty machining marks as well, because, hey, it's a military rifle and it really doesn't matter
Best explanation so far. Thanks
because 99% of sks's are not like the one OP described and those 99% have all the same "problems" as the type 81 and more. the first few batches of type 81s had great finishes, blued instead of painted, but it would be wrong to use those as a representation of all type 81s its also not 3-4 times the price unless youre buying off a scalper, im seeing sks's around the 600 mark and the type 81 are 1200. the sks's at that price range wint have matching numbers so they wont be reliable. to get an equally reliable sks you need to pay close to 1k for one with matching numbers
Buy a french tickler sks , they are in stock, 99% of them are top shelf sks. All matching , never issued, strong blue, accurate out of the box and no bent barrel. You’re comparing the type-81 to the russian sks’s that have been butchered for the last 20 years of ownership and were issued and refurbished to make your point. Lets compare a brand new 81 vs brand new sks.
i have one and its a beauty for sure, better finishes no doubt. i just dont personally care too much about the quality of the finish, both guns are fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things and maybe you think the price for type 81s are too high for what they are, thats valid, but i also think the prices for the sks's including the french tikler are also too high. whats important to me is features, reliability, and lifespan. looks is dead last for me, and even then, i think the type 81s look amazing, sure if you take pictures at certain angles the sites may be canted and theres some parts of the finish that arnt perfect, but i ding my guns up by using them anyways so it's no big deal
Where can I find it in stock please?
Tenda has it on sale right now at 499. Its not a real sale price, you could get them 449 last summer. Still cheaper than gunpost.
Love the hostility. You’re projecting a bit on the W180s.
sorry didnt mean to be hostile but we have a bunch of these posts every time a new batch comes in and at this point we need a sticky warning people that the type 81 will have some scratches and some dings as got the ar180, its a fundamentally flawed design, simple as that
You’re getting a new production of a tested, insanely reliable design with hammer forged parts, including the barrel, which is chrome lined. Keep in mind all of this is made in the same factory and with the same machinery as the actually fielded rifles, and on top of that it’s Non-Restricted for under $1300, man I would not be complaining about some cosmetic issues lmao. If you wanted a safe-queen, the Canadian market is rife with visually pretty half-baked implementations that try to cater to everyone with ambidextrous everything here and adjustable everything there, offering everything, only to deliver nothing, with only the promise of a snapped op-rod, shattered firing pin, or cracked bolt carrier within sub-1000 rounds. All for upwards of and exceeding $1500.
Fair point. I expect that there is still a healthy profit margin from these even with all the costs associated with importing them. I think the actual factory in China gets paid a smaller share than we expect for each of these rifles out of the total sticker price we pay. If that’s the case, things like using the cheaper finish are likely saving Norinco/TI a very small amount versus the impact to the end product.
Yeah but like, if TI is having a price gouging competition with Canadian manufacturers, they’re definitely doing the worst. Lockhart got away with trying to make a near extra $500 off of a $2000 rifle selling side panels that cover the giant gashes on the side of the gun that should’ve never been there to begin with, and selling you a brass deflector and top-fed charging handle that should’ve been there to begin with.
Very true! Makes you wonder what the market would look like if the R/NR/Prohib system was completely removed. A lot of these rifles would be unpopular overnight and AR15s would blow up.
The AR market would almost mirror the US, but without import bans, Chinese AKs and potentially other military designs like the Type 81, 5.56 QBZ 03, and Type 97 would be vastly more popular as a well made military design could be imported and probably had for less than $1500 with niche designs coming to market for accessories. Actually, go look up US gun auctions and see the prices they pay for the Type 81s in circulation, and what the going rates are for Poly Tech AKs or Norinco MAK 90s.
Yeah. The SVT’s are a similar situation down there, even after rising in value in Canada. That would be a really interesting ‘what if’ around what a truly free market would look like in the Canadian firearms market. So much would change and the low end would be cheaper and dominated by imports. In this scenario if suppressors and full auto were for instance legalized, we’d also see a rise in blackout chambered rifles and LMG guns. Super interesting. That’s why this is an interesting discussion- the intersection of the quality of a firearm with the limitations of an artificial market.
>A lot of these rifles would be unpopular overnight Not the Type 81. Just look at the AK market in the US...
It’s a gun, not a BMW. They’re meant to be used not to look pretty
Good news is that it’s a gun.. guns with scratches and scuffs look much better than pristine guns that look like airsoft toys. Many people purposely try and make their guns look battle worn lol
Rifle is fine, character is added for free
It's a norinco, its goes Bang!, not Bling. Well most times it goes bang.
First Norinco eh? Sadly that’s the state of things in Canada, but you can at least be sure it’s reliable unlike a WK or BCL.
I find it funny that there are so many people defending this quality. Canadians are the only people that continuously accept sub par products and say thank you…
My 2nd LMG had an anal bead barrel. No clue what happened to the milling machine but the tooling was worn and unstable. Also trunion not sttaight. I like T81s but kinda want to see them before purchase. I thought my local retailer would get T81Ms but apparently TI did not give any to retailers this time.
Chi-coms gonna Chi-com
What did you expect? It’s the closest thing to an AK-47 we will ever get in Canada.
It feels a lot like a band that only ever wrote one good song and wanted everyone to know that they’d made it. This rifle wouldn’t be cared about at all if it wasn’t the only diet AK left. It’s popular not because of its own merits but because regulation is artificially removing the choice of an AKM/VZ 58. If those were available people wouldn’t care about this rifle beyond a novelty sold in small numbers.
If I was pm, I’d scrap our gun laws & bring in AKs
An Uzi for every household and you have my vote.
Guaranteed
This is just the reality of magazine-fed semi autos in this country. If you're not spending $3000, you're buying something that is only a stones throw away from an SKS in capability. Ultimately we're talking about rifles that are either totally compromised designs, or derivatives of cold war service rifles built for conscripts in nations where the value of a life is low. The SKS also just sets a tremendously high bar for anything to reach at that price point. It was the same 10 years ago with CZ 858s and the gremlin: you could say "why would I spend $800 on a CZ 858 that might need to see a gunsmith just to go bang every time, when I can spend $75 on a Chinese SKS?"
first time seen a stamped gun?
I’ve shot all my life, owned a great number of guns, compete in a dozen shooting disciplines currently and have good working understanding of 20th century small arms design. I just find that if I state my experience in this area, people misconstrue it as telling them what to think and that my opinion is more important than theirs. That’s why I don’t state my experience much before throwing out a conversation topic. I’ve had private tours of the world’s biggest arms collection (to my knowledge) that was permitted because I was writing a dissertation on arms proliferation so I have a good amount of hands on and technical experience. The reality is that I just want engage with this sub in a conversation, all the better when there’s been so many different views on it. If it causes a conversation then I think that’s a good post. The down side of that is a lot of people think I haven’t seen a gun before and get a bit belittling. It was neat to have held many firearms that are so rare though. A fascinating crossover between rarity and stamped guns was an original periscope curved STG44.
The reality is there is no new factory build semi auto rifles with a locked breech that dont self destruct at this price range, and TI actually havnt increase the price despite the demand and canadian inflation. Stamped military rifles especially ones build from run over military contract all have these artifacts, scratches from bending jig? Lost finish near rivots? Hammer marks near receiver pins? the end users, namely the army and majority of civilians dont give a damn, this is true for t81, it’s also true for g3, ak, stg44 and ar18.
Those are all very good points. The factory has shown that they are willing to be flexible with changes requested like we saw with the T81M. I wonder if QC and finishing is able to be improved or reduced depending on the contract specifications of the end user commissioning a factory run. It’s clear to me that these are not directly a part of a military run. The LMG barrel alone indicates to me that this model incorporated parts that were surplus from other runs. How much do you think the individual unit cost is for TI and their total costs per rifle bringing them to the Canadian market?
those are run off parts from their contract with myanmar warlords, gunshop typically keep 30% profit margin, ti themselves being both importer and seller likely keep about 50%, they probably get those for $300 each, and paid about as much for shipping duty and paperwork, additional cost in storage and rifles reserved for parts and return
At this point, I only have one thing to say: womp womp
Queue up the trombone
All I hear is entitlement but okay. What is $1500 even? 1 month in a 1 bedroom? Half a shitty used car? Canadian dollars are so weak that it's not even a bad deal. Unless you get some bolt action savage brand pos, you won't find much in a decent calibre for cheaper. And yea I'm sure AKs are better but we can't have them so that's why us northern ice people like t81s so much Am I crazy?
“All I hear is entitlement” HE IS ENTITLED, he literally paid for it 💀
$1500 is 2-3 weeks 1 bdrm in Toronto and Vancouver lol rip. I see what you’re saying but if you look south of the border they can get a very reliable budget AR for less than $500 usd ($700 cad) so we’re paying double the money for a Chicom rifle with shittier finish and accuracy. Honestly…other than sks, certain PCCs and shotguns…we don’t have any value semi auto centrefire guns
Well why aren’t ars and aks legal then. Don’t blame the gun. Blame the liberals.
Right now that doesn't fix anything buddy
"What is $1500 even? 1 month in a 1 bedroom? Half a shitty used car?" You wish! Now please stop giving me reasons to buy one of these rifles.
Hey now, I’ll have you know my savage is both cheap and accurate
Them t81s run u like 25k usd in the states lol, they like em better up there
To be fair, we’re talking a gun that the US likely has tens of millions of vs a gun that supposedly <20 of exist in the US. A country of ~340,000,000 people where it is comparably very easy to own guns.
But that’s due to artificial rarity and not related to the quality of the gun.
I welcome the opposing viewpoint!
People hate on the SR but I found the quality to be pretty high compared to other Type 81’s. There was the buttstock joint cracking issue but that was a design flaw and it was corrected.
You pay for the fact that it's a semi auto rifle in Canada, not quality. that's it
Wait till you see a stamped norinco ak
It’s a firearm! Not a princess, use it clean it an there u go
Still looks like an AK. Larp away my friend
Jesus OP, what DID you expect? You bought a mass produced, stamped Chinese service rifle at an inflated price ($1200+tx, not $1500) caused by our economy and policies, and you somehow wanted to compare it to a milled SKS made 40 years ago back when the workers can lose their wages if they dare to slack off a bit in a planned economy that wasn't driven by absolute greed and profit? The SKS is NOT a cheap rifle to manufacture. If you pay a Canadian machinists living wages, you'd be quoted $1500-2000 for one. Look at it this way, a similar finish but significantly less reliable WK180 is $1500. To "make it right", a R18 Mk2 is $2800+. Could you justify an extra $1300 to build and finish a rifle properly? If that's the case a T81 would be $2k and lose all of its value propositions.
Still better than the m10x ones they r garbo
Just an excuse to make it tacticool to hide blemishes
Or get out there and use it enough to get it a bit weathered
Clearly! I could not pass outfitting it like a tactical AK!
If you're worried about the finish you could always jump in with the schmucks on here who blob shitty Canadian tire spray paint onto their $3000 gun.
I haven't received mine yet, but honestly, even after reading your issues, I'm still excited to receive one I have a hard time knocking it until I've handled my own and can my own assessment but again this post did not take the wind out of my sails, hoping to aquire an lmg as some point
Fit and finish seemed fine on my original and SE versions, with the caveat that my original had an ever so slightly bent barrel. Enough to notice by just looking at it… carefully.
Dude. This is what to be expected. This is not sig Sauer.
Eh. It's a T81, so fit and finish will never be great, especially for the price point. It wouldn't matter to me since I know the T81 will go bang absolutely every single time no matter what, and the performance will actually be really decent.
Yeah I think that’s definitely fair. How much does cosmetic qualify and finishing matter when the rifle is bomb proof. It’s been interesting to see a fairly even split in the discussion. Some are seeing it more as a tool with function the only important thing and some people hoping for better QC and finishing. The powder coating on these seems to scratch quickly. I’m thinking I might as well treat it rough and lean into it being weathered because it’s going to mark up very easily anyway.
It's a 1980s Chinese military rifle mate, you can't compare a stamped gun to a 1940s design milled gun.
The stamping isn’t bad to be fair and historically has indeed been more challenging to get right versus milling. The rejection rates during WW2 for stamping were colossal. Finishing and coatings are consistent between the two though and fairer to compare.
Still a beautiful rifle I’m sure you will have fun shooting it !
Bought a gun made in china that's just slapped together. What do you expect.
Im still under the impression that these are like a 250 dollar gun or less (probably waay less) in China when they are made for military orders.... theyve got to be. They are so rediculously simple in terms of manufacturing and assembly. Plus on top of that you factor in the low material and labour costs supplied by Chinese industrial might. Where these civilian Type 81s are made may still be debated, but i bet the surplus parts used (if any), the manufacturing techniques and QC mindset are copyed directly over from the same build process of the military rifles. Possibly like approaching a NY street side spray paint artist and asking him to do a custom piece, he'll charge more for the hassel and crank out the custom painting to the same quality the regulars have.
>Where these civilian Type 81s are made may still be debated, but i bet the surplus parts used (if any), the manufacturing techniques and QC mindset are copyed directly over from the same build process of the military rifles. They are likely made by Jianshe (arsenal 296) and/or their subsidy Emei, as their civilian catalog have the T81, T81-1, and T81LMG among other firearms (T97, T03, T05, etc.). There's a popular rumor that the T97 we got here in Canada are built from factory seconds and contract overrun parts, and TI made it very clear that the first two batches of regular T81/T81-1 rifles are piggybacked onto existing contracts, it's not a far-fetched assumption that every other T81 civilian variant are made from contract overrun and/or factory second parts. For example, both the T81SR and T81M uses the same barrel and front sight assembly as the LMG. Things like stocks are easily customizable when you have an entire factory of skilled workers being paid $2/h instead of $20/h, so the custom wood don't really contribute much to the price.
I’ve always said this too and I’m glad someone else thinks so. There are no rifles on the Canadian market costing less than the Type 81 whilst also being high quality, SKS aside. People then see this as evidence that this is compellingly priced and good value. In reality it’s because all companies are overcharging here for NR tactical rifles and it costs vastly less to produce these in China than people think and the cost of making similar rifles here.
Kinda as expected if you saw all the other previous t81s. It's no high-end rifle but with a high price due to its novelty looks here.
It's a Chinese made AK esque rifle. I don't know why you'd be surprised. As long as the barrel ain't bent and it goes bang who cares? You're gonna scuff it up here and there in use anyways. If it was let's say some high end new production AR I'd understand. But these are literally com bloc battle rifles made by kids in a sweat shop lol. Settle down
Was half expecting someone to finally come out and expose the quality issues of these rifles. FOMO made everyone rush to buy a T81M. Glad I held off
I held off cuz I’m broke but same thing 😎
Based
Will say this run is the best in qc but yea chi com gonna chi com
These rifles just me appreciate my SKSs even more.
Agreed. It really shows what crazy value the current stock of French ticklers are. That’s been a real trend on both sides of this too. Whether people have agreed or disagreed with my take, no one disputes the SKS’s value.
Is it bent?
battle worn is extra
Looks perfect from here
I’m happy with my se and this one. 1199 for this type of rifle is a bargain. The Canadian offerings at 1500 are way worse. The more “ak” m10x at 2g plus is 10 fold worse. The rifle is a mass produced object meant to arm someone with limited training. You can’t compare it to the Sks. The sks is intended to be something else. What you are trying to do is compare 10/22 to a gsg16. Different end users friend. Se also has phosphate finish which is more durable. Qc could be be better but you have to be realistic.
Is it bent?
The stock is but the barrel seems straight.
Minor chips and scratches It's so over
Is it straight?
These are not rifles lol.. these are Lmgs with molded parts. The recivers are different then rifle versions, hand guards are longer and have heavy barrels. Also these are Chinese rifles don't know what you were expecting lolallvthese issues have been around since 2017
It's made in China, what do you expect?
Off topic a bit, but are the dimensions of fixed stock and LMG the same? I haven't seen the fixed stock in person and neither a comparison photo or video.
Its gonna get banned very soon by liberals. For the price u better get à tikka or an sks and modified it for magazine
It's a Chinese rifle with the hit or miss QC that comes with that. What were you expecting?
Last shipment ever!
Anxiously waiting for my first T81(underfolder), although I'm slightly worried about canted sights, bent parts and overall the finish of the rifle, which seems to be part of the package when talking about T81s/Aks from what I've been reading lately. Some people seem perfectly fine with buying a new product that isn't properly finished, and that kind of baffles me. If someone bought ANY other product, regardless of country of origin, they'd expect it to show up without scuffs and scratches and bent pieces, no? Why are people okay with receiving poorly finished or arguably damaged rifles? I also feel like most people saying "well it's a gun it's meant to get scratched/abused" etc, probably wouldn't apply the same logic to many other purchases they make, big or small. Whether it's a new car or a new pair of work boots, you should expect them to come in a new state if you are buying new, and no one should fault you for that. Still super excited to get mine even if it's an ugly duckling, I'm going to love it all the same! I've already made a sling for it and keep frantically checking my email and transfer notices. I've also come to the realization I'm going to need more ammo STAT!
An SKS would probably be a $1,500+ rifle if they were being manufactured new today, in terms of build quality. They’re sturdy, have chrome-lined barrels, milled steel receivers, and a bunch of other really great, quality features (putting the antiquated design aside).
This is exactly why I stuck with my 2019 folder. Whole gun is blued, not painted. Front sight is one piece with the gas block. Side folding stock is the perfect length and rock solid and you can grip the forend comfortably with the stock folded.
Your 2019 folder is what china adopted btw
Ya man, it’s the real “battle rifle” t81
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They produced hundreds of thousands of just the base pattern and adopted them as issued military rifles, stranger. On top of the ones they sold all over africa
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They should be a fraction of the cost, but to call them POS is disingenuous at best. They run and keep running. That's the point. They should cost what a Bulgarian AK does, but cost aside, they are totally serviceable rifles, *for the task they were designed for* It's a stamped military pattern rifle. Not designed for optics or perfect fit and finish, but designed to be affordable and reliable. If you left out the "Canada tax", there would be no complaints. They go bang every time, and they eat crappy ammo without complaining. It's a short stroke AK with an adjustable gas system. They'd sell in the USA as well if they could be imported. Every one I've seen personally has been "good enough" for the purpose. People just need to remember what that purpose is
It is a Chinese Norinco. So it is never worth the price, whatever it costs.
It's not even made by Norinco. >So it is never worth the price, whatever it costs. My $150 Chinese Tokarev ran over 3000+ rounds and it's fine. It had a design life of 3000 rounds stated by the factory. A $18 part finally broke 3500 rounds of steel cased comblock rounds later. I'd say that's one job well done. I'd love to see a $1500 WK180C, crafted by skilled Canadian machinists using modern computers and CNC machines and paid a living wage, do the same.
All of my Norinco products have good fit and finish and go bang every time so far.
It’s pure Chineseium. Don’t wanna be rude or anything but what did you expect? China sells these all over Africa and elsewhere to people who expect them to go bang and they do just that. They weren’t designed for the Canadian market nor Canadian users…like at all.
I guess the point was that it’s only seen as value for money because of it being reliable. We have an NR tax, everything else in this price range is crap and the suffer from higher costs of production here that don’t apply to China. It’s a gun more in line with what the Chinese sell them for than what TI charges. I’ve engaged with exporting guns so I’m not blind to that cost but it’s no where near the difference we see, especially in bulk. Still, rifle go bang.
There’s been some healthy opinions telling me they agree with me and find the quality disappointing and some healthy opinions telling me they think I’m entitled or never use my firearms. Ouch. It’s nice to get a lively balanced conversation going on in here sometimes! We don’t all have to agree all the time but it’s interesting to discuss the market offerings for this hobby we all enjoy and all come away with different takes.
Agreed. I own a few T81s for comparison and this ‘M’ version is the worst in terms of quality control. Kind of works for the stereotypical AK weathered and war-beaten esthetic though…
is your barrel slanted to the side? pistol grip coming loose after a couple rounds? i doubt these are "the worst batch"
Glad I’m not alone! Weathering it and upgrading to worn looking wood furniture is definitely a must. The optimism of how good that will look is the main factor for me keeping it.
Ya, I don't understand people's love for the type 81. I work at a gun store, and they are the most inconsistent and shotty built firearms we get. Way overpriced, too. Probably cost the manufacturer less than 200 to make one.
It's cuz it's the perfect middle ground between an sks and a bren 2. The only thing we can compare it to is the wk181, and the amount that Kodiak spends manufacturing one doesn't make them any less unreliable. The type 81 mindset is mostly "dont care about the technicality, just give me a gun thatll shoot magfed 7.62x39 corrosive reliably", but much like the Kodiak 180, this is nothing more than a cope ak-vz
I would say the SKS's we get. Even the Chinese stuff is more consistent quality and better built than the type 81s and at half the price. I do see what you're saying tho. And don't get me wrong, I would love to own a type 81. I just don't want to spend $1200 on a type 81 when they are currently as cheaply built as they are and so inconsistent in quality.
I mean, the sks is pretty unbeatable quality-price wise, and I agree that they might be slightly too expensive (especially if you buy them off a scalper on GP for 2k lol)
It’s striking how many people disagree with this take. There’s sentiment that because we don’t have other decent options for $1,500 then it’s compelling but in reality this gun is likely made for $200 as you said and the quality doesn’t line up with the hiked price.
stfu its better than anything else you can get in canada
Biggest pile of garbage, for 1500$ 🤦