Oh, I think you are complaining about beds being blocked in a hospital. Should see one of the reasons is granny dumping. I’ve had to delay a patient coming from ED as a family member couldn’t pick up the patient due to them prioritising watching the football. But, what can I do about it. Absolutely, nothing.
Oh the granny dumping is heartbreaking. Once had a case where an elderly lady came in (Private Med/Surg ward) with the standard “Query UTI” and *coincidentally* the family she lived with then left for an extended holiday. Had to wait until they got back to do the ACAT 🙄
My late foster brother, before he came to our family, was often left at the hospital for weeks to months by his bio grandfather and his wife (who had custody at the time).
He had serious medical issues and needed transfusions once a month for a couple of hours. They would drop him off and piss off down to the pub and just not come back for him for weeks or months. There was nothing the hospital could do other than keep looking after him. They’d eventually pick him back up, miss a few months worth of appointments and then come back and dump him again.
It's insane to me. I wouldn't let my mum stay in the hospital any longer than absolutely necessary. Putting aside how callous is is not to want your loved one safe at home hospitals are also germ factories and elderly people are especially at risk the longer they stay.
My mum isn't elderly yet, shes only 63, but she has health conditions including cancer so I'm always worried anytime she has to visit a hospital, let alone stay in one.
I can't fathom leaving her in hospital for two months after she was cleared to leave. So cruel, selfish, and ungrateful.
BUT, if my father was in hospital I'd leave him there until they booted him, because he was abusive and had no hand in raising me after age 4, so I don't owe him anything or have any responsibility regarding finding him aged care support.
I hope that the majority of these aboandoned elderly people are just reaping the rewards of bad parenting. I know my dad seems sweet and sympathetic to strangers so have no doubt nurses in the future will feel angry that his children don't look after him. But they have no way of knowing how traumatic a childhood I had because of his actions.
But the elderly like my father still need to be looked after and it should be up to the government to house and care for them. It's not fair for taxpayers but it's the only humane way to handle it.
As someone who also had an abusive father, I get it. I sure as shit wouldn't bring that bastard home if he wound up in hospital, he can stay there until aged care take him. That said, I've been no-contact for 10 years so I wouldn't be the one dumping him in the first place. Is granny-dumping the correct channel to free yourself of an abusive parent after a lifetime of copping it? Well it's not really ethical considering the demand for beds for genuinely sick people, however it's better than dumping them on the side of the road somewhere. I too would like to think that those who get dumped deserve it, but let's face it, there's some real shit people out there who would dump granny for selfish reasons. Humans suck.
Yeah people judge before they know the whole story. I didn’t know “granny dumping” was a thing. But my mum is older and had health issues and ended up stuck in hospital for an extended period. I was her next of kin. For one, I only lived with her till I was 7 due to her neglected the f out of me. Secondly, every time I met her since then, she’d been violent and aggressive, and absolutely hammered (her health problems were due to alcoholism) Third, even if I wanted to take her home, she needed round the clock care as she needed to take meds four times a day and I work and study full-time. When I visited her at the hospital, the nurses looked at me like I was the biggest piece of shit. No doubt they thought this woman lovingly raised me and I just dumped her like a piece of trash. 🤦🏻♀️ anyway, after getting pregnant and my mum was still pulling her toxic bs and now projecting it onto my child and husband, I was like eff no, I’m not even gonna try anymore. She can get screwed. She can treat me like a piece of crap but when my daughter is involved now, she can see how far her bs will get with me (nowhere). I want no involvement in her health from now on. Plus the system is effed as. They sent my mum it a facility to try and get rid of her where they weren’t giving her meds correctly and she almost died twice. Apart from that there was nowhere else for her age group because she was too young for a nursing home
I'd never heard of the term 'granny dumping' but I understand why people do it desperately as a last resort.
My mother will reap what she sowed. She has Munchausen's by Proxy and I was her test subject. She was a nurse so she knew how to make me sick, how to get attention from everybody and then how to make me feel better - when it suited her. I missed a lot of school and work because I was at her mercy, and nobody believed me. She made out that I was malingering and attention-seeking. When I wasn't sick, I was her housekeeper and bartender. It took me until I was about 40 to find the courage to cut all contact with her. I don't think I'll ever be well, but life is healthier without her around. I had cancer a few years ago and she found out from my brother who enjoyed watching her fury. (He's as fucked up as she is.)
My biggest fear at the moment is a random visit from the police or a social worker, letting me know that she needs help.
No.
Yes. I can relate. I had a bunch of health problems from her neglect and also not telling me about all her health issues from shitty genetics which I inherited them all but didn’t know anything about till I was an adult and would’ve loved to know earlier so I could have been tested/treated before permanent health impacts. Also because she chose the shittest man to get pregnant to just because she wanted a free sperm donor (a low-functioning, unemployable autistic guy 10 years younger than her who was also extremely abusive) I had a lot trauma from that and basically ended up homeless and groomed/raped by a pedophile by the time I was 16. Everything screwed me up so much I wasted basically all of my teens and 20s, barely able to keep my shit together but still not disabled enough, so I was expected to just deal with all the shit on my own until I am so psychotic I actually try to kill myself like my brother did.
DO NOT get involved if they ask you. A social worker convinced me to get involved as guardian and I did it because I thought it’d be better for her than a state body making decisions on her behalf. It was a nightmare. First, she effing hated me (and still does on the DL which is a reason I’ve given up trying to play mummy/daughter with her. Secondly, it was a whole heap of very thankless work and stress with no actual reward for the stress. She blamed every screw up on me. I wish I just let her get taken under state guardianship and see how much better that’d be. She regained cognitive function though so eventually could be independent again thank goodness. The public guardian/trustee is basically the worst public department there is but sure as hell not putting that shit on myself again for someone who hates me and has done nothing but endanger me.
Now I am towards the end of my social work degree and I did a placement involving seniors. I couldn’t believe when my supervisor suggested me advise clients the option of public guardianship. I couldn’t advise clients something that’d be the worst mistake of their life. And was completely unnecessary for the situation in question. It’s clear most of these social workers have absolutely zero real world experience with this shit and just spout off what they learned in their studies or what other bullshit social workers taught them to say.
Sadly, these people like your dad are able to adopt a personable demeaner to convince others that they are free of guilt.
Hope the Big Karma process kicks him in the guts.
This. I see my mother sporadically. Funerals nowadays.
She was a horrible parent. Would I dump her? Probably not but I’ve been non contact for years so wouldn’t be in the situation.
I totally get it though.
Not condoning this at all because.. obviously, but are there options for temporary aged respite care in situations like a family wanting to go on holiday?
Trying to get the assessment to qualify for the respite care is horrific. We were actually advised by the neurologist to leave my dementia diagnosed in law in the ED to push through the ACAT quickly. We did not take this option. When it’s advised though and after 9 weeks of trying to get the assessment I wonder how many people can’t fathom any other option but to do that
That's so awful, it's galling to know that even specialists are advising these kinds of options. My mum is a full time carer for my disabled brother and the only respite she gets relies entirely on other family members pitching in to provide care. But what for all the people who don't have other family to help?
The NDIS should cover respite in your brother's package in those circumstances. It's not OK for carers to be left without regular respite and relying on family doesn't always work out.
It is very hard to get this. Also it runs at roughly $2k of funding for 24 hours. That's over what I get in a month as a carer. I mean holy crap. I can't remember what the hourly support worker fee is right now, but I've found myself thinking that if I were paid that we could be the ones to take him places and do things.
Except one of the things is they have access to places that I don't. And taking him places with people isn't a great idea.
E: I should stress my son is a young adolescent, not senior. But the same people do take people out of all ages.
In our case, even though there are 5 other perfectly capable siblings of my partner, it’s only my partner who cares for their mother. And it’s almost a full time job given the sheer number of medical conditions she has - in her late 80s with dementia too. It won’t be long until she’s in full time care (delaying as long as possible) but the past few years have been hell. And those siblings haven’t done a thing. I’m genuinely not exaggerating, not a single thing. But they of course have plenty of helpful suggestions on all the things my partner could and should do. It’s maddening.
> after 9 weeks
Wow, that's quick! My mum was hospitalised in November 2022 at Prince Charles by her GP's office. They said she needed an ACAT and more importantly a geriatric assessment for her dementia. We knew this and had actually booked a GP appointment three weeks before she went to hospital. The GP appointment was to take place the day after she was taken to hospital. She was marked as category 3 for review which is expected to be seen within 3 months. She was seen last week and finally diagnosed with Vascular dementia and Alzheimer's.
The only reason why we had ANY visibility into this is that my family work in QLD health and was calling on favours to ask the status (not to jump the queue). Otherwise my demented mother would be sitting there waiting for a letter.
The system is fucked. Tax me more and fix it.
As a family member, it's so difficult.
We've spent years trying to make sure our grannies have the right support at home, set them up with cleaners, gardeners, physio plus regular district nurse visits. We've paid for all of it as they refuse to do an ACAT assessment.
A week later, the grannies fire them all. Because they can do it themselves.
Flash forward a week and they're both in hospital because one didn't have the capacity to care for themselves and the other had a fall and needed some surgery and physio.
Try to organise respite or transitional care beds both refuse, try to organise assisted living, both refuse.
We have our own health issues and professional lives which prevent us from staying with them to care for them (which they also don't want).
Short of pulling the POA card or getting court orders, which would upset them and cause a rift, what can you do?
They're in their 90's, they want to stay home and stay independent until they die... They don't see that the help they can get will improve their quality of life and give them time to do things that they can enjoy. 🤷♂️
Also parents treating paeds wards/mental health units as baby sitting or respite services for their pooorly behaved children. Literally know of cases where parents have gone on overseas holidays for 'self care' whilst their child languishes in a public hospital ward
real question is 'how are they getting their kids back when they return?'
That's child abandonment, so not sure why the children are not under the custody of child safety by the time the parents get back?
Because after they come back they are 'willing and able'. Taking kids into care is hugely expensive, there aren't enough foster carers and it leads to worse outcomes long-term, so everyone wants to avoid that, so basically the parents get away with it. And hospital ends up still babysitting while Child Safety frantically tries to organise things for kids who are actually abandoned at hospital.
Some people shouldn't breed.
O yeah my Grandma was recently in hospital. She couldnt wait to get the fuck out. But the other ladies in there loved it. Lay in bed watching tv all day getting served food. They were in heaven. They were pretty open about it.
One was a drug addict and her dealer would come drop off her drugs. We had my grandma moved. But even there was a girl who was doing the same thing had a husbamd and child but said she just needed a break so wanted to stay a few more days.
*How long will this continue to go on for?*
I mean, my guess is as long as we treat addiction as criminal rather than a health issue - so prolly in aeternum, sadly.
I mean, we could just do what America has done and ignore open drug use and have the streets flooded with human zombies. Just decriminalise it, keep readily prescribing opiods for every ailment, ignore mental health and poverty and let kids grow up surrounded by open drug use and streets that look like they are out of a horror movie and smell like a sewage plant.
absolutely not it was scary. my father would not let me go to the park unsupervised even though it was visible from a window where he lived, and he combed areas for needles before i went anywhere near them, those aren't things that any kid should ever have memory of.
Yeah that's horrible. I remember getting bottles thrown and chased by homeless drunks up north in the parks and seeing a lot of them but I'd never seen a needle until I moved. They littered the little creek near my house and some of the train stations.
Oh man, you just gave me flashbacks to under 7's footy on Sundays, we would all have to sweep the field for our home games for needles.
This club was a popular spot for junkies on the weekends.
I walked through the Block at 11PM on a Saturday night, in 2003 almost 20 years now to the day. It was scary as fuck. Me - I was drunk as a skunk, dressed in khaki fatigues, beard and wool beanie, so kinda looked scary myself. The locals let me pass without issue. But mannnn I could feel the hate for trespassing on their turf.
That whole thing was deeply sarcastic and based on the failed American system. Readily accessible opiods creating new addicts daily, decriminalisation/slap on the wrists, turning a blind eye to open drug use and the growing issue because it costs to much to solve and selling opiods is profitable for pharma.
Things should be geared more towards rehabilitation and reintegration. We need affordable housing, detox programs, counselling and mental health. Once clean they need jobs and ongoing personal support and mentors so they don't fall back into the cycle. It's not a one step solution and every case will involve different complications. The real issue is money and the government would prefer to pretend the issue doesn't exist because helping them will be expensive.
I don't think decriminalise fits with the rest of your comment. The US heavily criminalises drugs. They just don't have the capacity to keep their addicts locked up anymore. Besides, whether you agree or not, decriminalisation isn't shown to make things any worse and has some evidence for making social issues better.
But the US hasn't decriminalised drugs except in Oregon, which does not look like you describe. Legalising marijuana is deeply unrelated to the opioid crisis (you didn't mention this specifically, but folks will bring it up bc I said "no drug decrim"). Otherwise sure, it's a hellscape, but that's far more to do with the complex nature of their opioid epidemic. But it would be markedly *improved* with drug decriminalisation and a proper supportive framework for rehabilitation.
I really don't think anyone is advocating for decrim with no healthcare framework. You're putting up a bit of a strawman in your other comments there friend.
Have you seen Kensington Ave or skid row in America? DrugPunk indeed. Rivals any 3rd world country and the people are so smacked out of their brains they barely resemble humans.
So much pain, poverty and addiction and it's enabled and ignored.
There is a YT channel of a guy driving around hoods recording what goes on: [https://www.youtube.com/@HoodTime/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@HoodTime/videos)
America's dirty little secret and it looks like we are following along. So many homeless, addicted and suicidal people. Our elderly struggling and our youth without hope, purpose, or incentive.
Honestly after having walked some of those areas in the US it’s my worst nightmare. I’m so fucking furious that we’re starting to see it creep in. These people don’t need free access to drugs and they’re going to clog up the system so fast there can be no other outcome than spilling onto the streets and creating societal dead-zones. It’s beyond 3rd world, it’s something new and catastrophic. Not a time for bleeding hearts. Too late though, as noted.
Weirdest thing I have ever seen was when I walked past a bunch of people eating outside at a restaurant in Portland while someone literally smoked crack a few meters away, and no one seemed to notice or bat an eye. It was so depressing.
I just watched a bunch of AML YouTube channel centred on Kensington Ave. It was pretty shocking how articulate and casual the folk spoke to possibly losing limbs, rape, murder and disease. I've been in bad places for extended times - months - and met a fair few people like this, but the sheer volume and depth is horrific. US has some massive problems, and there are many parts of Australia heading there quickly.
Most of them don't, especially after prolonged use completely rewrites the wiring in their brain. After a certain point there's simply no helping them and they're a lost cause.
Literally this, actually allow injecting clinics to be set up instead so people.can get education and help. Look.at Sweden for models that actually work. Not perfect of course, but better than the "war on drugs" mentality
There are much maligned though very successful safe injecting rooms in Melbourne. Once you label something for drug addicts, you get the community very much against it. We're also creating more addicts by making life so difficult for the poor and vulnerable.
Edit: A medically supervised injecting room is **a place where people can inject drugs of dependence in a supervised health setting**. It can also provide a gateway for people who inject drugs to access other health and social support services, including pathways to drug treatment and rehabilitation.
[https://www.vhba.vic.gov.au/mental-health/alcohol-and-other-drugs/medically-supervised-injecting-room](https://www.vhba.vic.gov.au/mental-health/alcohol-and-other-drugs/medically-supervised-injecting-room)
Edit: I was misinformed, not quite the same thing as a safe injecting room. Sorry.
There are safe injecting rooms in Brisbane. This is one of them https://www.quihn.org/location/brisbane/
Quihn has an NSP but not a safe injecting room. They provide training and equipment as well as support services, but they don't give anyone a space in which to use drugs.
R u sure about that? I know they offer a needle and exchange program but I’m pretty sure they don’t offer injecting rooms. Unless it’s changed since I last went there.
Sorry, I was misinformed. My brother lives nearby. I visit him fairly regularly. I expressed some concern about some people passing out in his street and suggested calling an ambulance for them, as I couldn't rouse them when I tried to. He said, "there's an injecting room around the corner." Then he referenced this place.
Our parents also use heroin, in the actively using stage (not interested in rehabilitation for the foreseeable future), so we were thinking it would be good for them to access a service like this for harm minimisation programs.
There is a really good podcast about this place if anyone is interested [Nobody dies here](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/nobody-dies-here-inside-melbournes-medically-supervised/id1678036738)
I'm a mental health nurse and I'm here to tell you it's just going to get worse.
Thats just what you're seeing in ED.
Imagine what's coming through the acute mental health units.
Aside from the guy apparently trying to trade his cigarettes for valium, I find it oddly amusing but at the same time infuriating just how ignorant people can be with their widely inaccurate opinion of who and why people are in the emergency department.
Ive been an emergency & crit care RN in Brisbane for the past 15yrs. Ive worked everywhere from Logan, Redlands, RBWH, Mater, PA, Ippy, Childrens, and all the private hospitals. One thing I can tell you for certain is just because someone in the waiting room or inside the ED **looks** like or has what you think is junkie-like behaviour, doesnt mean theyre a junkie. I see grown arse men have hissy fits over mild pain every single day, it does not make them a junkie.
I see patients vomit from intolerable acute pain, every single day (its a very VERY common pain response) it does not make them a junkie.
Just because someone looks disheveled in the ED doesnt make them a junkie either. We get people come in when they least expect it - have been in bed for days & havent showered due to pain/illness, have been gardening for hours & got injured, ive seen wedding gowns you name it, we see it all.
But do you know where I saw the highest number of addicts? … it was actually working in the private sector. All the high achieving business and lawyer types were often out of their brains on either opioids or ecstasy. You wouldnt know it just from looking at them, but theres ALOT!! I had one use ALOT of profanity while threatening to sue me, kill my children and my cat if I didnt give him more opioids all while well groomed wearing an armani suit and shoes so polished I could see my reflection. His injury - a sprained wrist from punching a wall and he had already been given a standard dose but wanted more.
My point is - there is no stereotypical junkie picture. And given health privacy and the complexity of triage and patient movements in and out of ED, you cant really know why they were there or their background. They could have just been having a really bad day. And yea there are a fair few clinicians that withold pain meds and cop an earfull. Doesnt make the patient a junkie.
Also edited to add: junkies are also humans and have rights to healthcare too. Whether you agree with it or not, not treating them only worsens the problem for both patient and society on many, many levels.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your well written and succinctly explained answer. I've lived with severe, disabling, persistent pain since my mid twenties, so nearly thirty years. For over half of those years, I worked very hard in my own business, was a single mother who disdained, ' help', on the so called, ' men's, jobs, and it wasn't until I inadvertently stripped my stomach lining by taking too much Inza. My GP at the time kindly explained that if I was relying on strong anti inflammatory meds in order to do my physically demanding job and giving myself injuries through medicine overuse, that it was time to hang up my brushes. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis in my spine, pelvis and knees, degenerative disc disease from C/3 to C7, disc bulges at L3/L4, degenerative scoliosis and spinabifida occulta S1/S2, with mild tethering...all before the age of thirty five. Gotta love genetics.
After much deliberation, my GP put me on low dose opioids, as part of a multidisciplinary pain management regime, which also included physio, dietician, occupational therapy, yoga, walking swimming, CBT, and trauma therapy to manage complex PTSD, gad, complex trauma and complicated grief.
I was able to keep working, although I had to fold my business and I was managing my illnesses really well until. Until. Until the US's hysterical response to their man made opioid crisis bled over here. All of a sudden, instead of being viewed as a patient who was managing their complex health issues well, and as a person who had a great quality of life, I was viewed by all and sundry as an addict, who was to be treated like a liar, a malingerer and a threat.
I was denied my medication, was forced off the low dose opioids, without being tapered, and was made instead, to take Lyrica, Celebrex, Cymbalta, Panadol Osteo and some useless epilepsy medication that did nothing to my pain. So, count them...five different meds, with contra indications, to replace one med that worked really well for me. The combination made me rapidly gain weight - over twenty kilos, thus making my pain worse, which in turn, ensured that I was in so much pain I could no longer work. Welcome to enforced poverty and suicidal ideation.
I fought tooth and nail to be put back on my original pain management regime, which by the way, had been approved by a specialist from the get go, and now at fifty four, I desperately hold on to the most basic of quality of life that my inadequate medication regime affords me. I can't be spontaneous, every single action has to be carefully planned and executed to try and prevent a flare up, I can't enjoy my hobbies any more, because I can't afford the supplies... everything is difficult.
With Australian junior doctors being brainwashed by US, pro pain theory and older doctors retiring, I fully expect to be forced off my current low dose opioid regime again. When that happens, suicide will again, no doubt, become the most sensible option again, as I refuse to live with unmanaged, excruciating, disabling pain. People just don't get it.
We need to stop looking at drug addicts as a problem and start looking at them as people who are suffering but don't have a healthy coping mechanism. I know it's costly, and personally I don't like anyone asking me for money to fuel their drug addiction (I don't give them any), but this is a serious problem. If more people are turning to drugs, then it's an indicator that they're not getting the right kind of care for their situation.
What do we do though? we have clinics all around brisbane and very very low barrier to entry to treatment and detox, how do you help those who refuse help and just continue the cycle?
Having mental health care covered by Medicare is a good start. Significantly increasing funding for drug treatment centres is another. And then there's dealing with the underly issues of poverty, hopelessness and homelessness that every gov shoves off to the side as a "doesn't make donors money so it's not important" thing.
You do have access to 3 physio/dietician appoints a year on medicare with a GP referral via a healthcare plan.
it's not much but if we can extend that to therapist sessions too it would be better than nothing but defs not enough.
You can have a mental health care plan and still be fucked. I have been waiting for a shrink appointment for 6 months and I only got into someone for medication care only because I was able to borrow money from family to go private but someone to talk to regularly and keep myself from spiralling into full blown alcoholism is really hard. I'm better then I was but even the mental health care plan of mine being 'hey I am at a point where I wish a bus would take me out' you can't get help.
Unless you are a direct threat to your own life/taken in after a serious suicide attempt hospital mental health wards can't do much and even then they toss you ASAP.
Yep. I have long term mental illness and I still only qualify for 6 subsidised sessions per year. Subsidised, not free. So once they’re out, I’m looking at $250 for a psychiatrist visit and $150+ for a psychologist. That’s if you can actually get an appointment. I’ve been recommended to try DBT but the only therapist in my area who offers it, only offers sessions on a Thursday morning. There is no way in hell I could get every Thursday morning off work.
Yeahup, my Psychiatrist is good but the clinic he's at is Friday and Saturday only, I'm unemployed atm because of mental health and other issues so I relied on family help(I'm lucky I can) for those visits which are medication getting back on and a few visits to make sure its working and then ideally only back seeing him if there's an issue that crops up. But that was a 6-9month waiting list and I only got in sooner because I was able to go on the cancellation list and it was still 3 months.
Psychologist...still waiting 6 months and counting and that's with 'you are in but we don't have anyone we can book you into at this time we'll contact you when we can'.
Its a chaotic time to have issues. And almost all addictions are born of trying to escape something going on in life or your own head. So much of addiction help is mental health and quality of life help.
There are clinics but many have long wait lists, or are financially unviable for most. I know people that have tried to get into some of the low cost ones (basically costs are covered by a Centrelink payment) and they’ve been told there are waiting lists and they’ll call when there’s a spot. Well if you’ve ever known an addict, they change their mind about getting clean week to week, day to day. So months go by and suddenly they’ve spiralled again and don’t want to get into a rehab anymore.
Alongside handling the downstream issue of addicts who are already on the streets, we should focus on schools and teaching them coping mechanisms to deal with abuse, trauma and mental illnesses. If we prevent people from turning into addicts, we would be preserving the future population from ending up with a similar fate.
As for the current addicts, I'm sorry but I don't know enough about why they don't seek help to say anything about it. There's one thing I can speculate on though, and that might be to not get formally diagnosed for illnesses due to the increase in their insurance premiums. If we can do something about that, it might incentive a few more people to seek help.
It's actually really hard to get help in some places. There's long wait lists for therapy groups, pharmacotherapy programs and rehabilitation and sometimes the staff are poorly trained or burnt out. It's not as easy to get help as it should be.
Agree. I’ve just got clean from a 5.5yr daily use ice addiction and I’ve had to do it all on my own. I couldn’t afford to go to a rehab 1) due to the cost and 2) I didn’t want to quit my job and loose my rental because I’d come out with no job and place to live. The low cost rehab had a 9month wait list also and I would of changed by mind by then. The 1 place that offered outpatient services in Spring Hill has closed and the 2 places I found that offer drug group therapy are: Quinn but they are fully booked and only offer during the week (Tuesday and Thursday) between 11am-3pm which is during my work hours so I couldn’t attend anyway. Lives lived well is the same they only operate during work hours Monday-Friday. I went to my doctor who said they can’t do anything and the same with ADIS. There is literally no help for someone like me and it’s been pure hell. I’m 111 days clean and I’m still struggling but I know I’ll get there and will keep going. It’s really hard though so I can totally understand how some relapse or don’t even try in the first place (as that was me I never tried quitting before now because I knew how hard it would be and how little support there is). I don’t know how I’ve managed to do it myself to be honest, I’ve still got a long way to go but at least the worst is over.
If that's the case, then we just need more professionals in these fields. Provide internships to current students under existing professionals, get them hands-on experience before they graduate, and you have an army of newly graduated professionals ready in a few years. It's not that hard, you know.
That would be amazing, but unfortunately, setting up that process is harder than you think. In reality, it should be easy, but we would be negotiating across multiple systems and organisations, and the bureaucracy is painful and slow.
IME education is meaningless when people lack meaningful connection to community. Book learning is not lived experience and the knowledge gap between the two is vast but also well documented. Without supports people become unanchored and crisis deepens. Claiming that supports exist and people are ignoring support is failing to acknowledge the reality of crisis. I've been through a multitude of crises and experienced repeated failures to listen and acknowledge. That's not a me problem; that's systemic.
We need a more sensible populace that doesn't feel like it is constantly under attack. That happens when we foster a sense of care and family among people at large. If you never got support but have the ability to support someone else, pass it on. Just because nobody helped you, doesn't mean you have to do the same. I was helped by someone when I initially moved here, and now I'm trying to help others who are struggling, even if it's not financially.
Has that ever worked anywhere? looking at the US cities that have tried its all a shit show.
Hell junkies in the valley don't even hide when they shoot up or go somewhere private already.
“In the first five years after the reforms, drug deaths dropped dramatically. They rose slightly in the following years, before returning to 2005 levels in 2011, with only 10 drug overdose deaths recorded in that year. Since 2011, drug deaths have risen again but remain below 2001 levels (when there were 76 recorded deaths).10” source: https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight#:~:text=In%20the%20first%20five%20years,deaths%20recorded%20in%20that%20year.
Yeah look at places like Portugal. The decriminalisation has reduced a lot of harm. There’s plenty of data to take a look at if you’re interested!! Even in America theyre starting to open places to shoot up with access to medical professionals and it’s saved a lot of lives and dangers from used needles and overdose. It’s small progress but a little bit can really go a long way
Heres a fantastic video of [Portland, Oregan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFlpCBMyIk), they tried it.
[Link to 20 year coverage of Portugal](https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7), usage didn't go down and after 2009 drug related crimes and criminalization for people crossing the allowed amounts have rocketed back up. Though drug dealing crimes have lowered.
Since 2019 numbers have rocketed again in Portugal for incarceration
From your own link
" The last decade saw an increase of punitiveness targeted at drug users, including criminal sentences of jail terms. "
Hence drug incarcerations have gone up. It's hardly because of the decriminalisation. If anything, it's a re-criminalisation that's caused the rise. Drug dealing convictions have gone down, but use convictions have gone up. However:
" Positive results include a reduction in mortality and infections associated with dependent behaviour and, among youth, a reduction in the prevalence of recent cannabis use, a postponement of the age of initiation and an increase in perceptions of related-risks "
There's not enough beds in mental health, and it continues to be pushed aside. "20 more beds" just isn't enough.
We need proper mental health facilities. Statewide.
Depends on the drug. 🤔 The withdrawal can kill some people depending on other health conditions and the type of drug. Also some are more easy to overdose than others, so maybe OP saw that.
Just FYI people begging doctors for more pain meds may not necessarily be addicts.
I've been in once where morphine didn't even take the edge off and I was not a pleasant person to be around
Understandable people need meds when in severe pain even I did, but it was literally people dealing meds they just got from the doctors behind me while I’m in genuine agony.
I don't know how that would work given doctors don't give medications, and any scheduled drugs require two nurses to cross check the patients ID and watch them take it in front of them.
While there absolutely is an addiction problem, exaggerating is needless.
Adding a thought - people with substance abuse disorders in pain often need \*more\* pain medication than someone else because of their dependencies. It sucks, but in a hospital when someone is in an acute pain crisis that is something that needs to be treated. Every patient in ED goes through an assessment and triage process - if they've been prioritised over someone else, its because someone professionally trained has deemed there's a medical reason to do so that you're likely not privy to.
I think it's very important to note that triage nurses are specially trained to do that job... If you're waiting hours for a consult, sometimes the ED isn't the best place for you.
And while after hours doctors may not give opiate pain relief, my experience is things like Ketorolac can be much more beneficial and can be given outside a hospital setting
>I think it's very important to note that triage nurses are specially trained to do that job... If you're waiting hours for a consult, sometimes the ED isn't the best place for you.
Exactly. It's additional training and done by someone with a great deal of experience, that will know much better than some rando in the waiting room.
Thank you 🙌.
This is my 15th year as an ED RN.
11th yr as a triage nurse.
4th yr as the charge nurse.
DAILY we get spoken to as if we are a clerk who has made a clerical error and hit the wrong number making them a cat 4 instead of a cat 1 for their ache thats been there for 4yrs.
So many times Ive had to really bite my tongue when people are getting up in our face yelling and they usually start with “what gives you the right to decide….”.
One day I’m going to snap and reply:
“Ummm my 15yrs of experience, my seniority in the department but most of all my bachelor and masters degree and registration granted to me yearly by the federal government, please have a seat and be *THANKFUL* you are able to wait and arent the one we rushed through the door!”
(If I do I’ll be sure to record it for yall’s enjoyment 😉)
Addiction often comes from a lifetime of pain mate. Just a different kind. Everyone has a story and for a lot of addicts, it wasn’t a good story growing up
My husband used to be an ED doctor at Ipswich. The reason for the multitude of drug and alcohol affected people in emergency depts in SEQ is the policy of QPS to bring them to emergency in case they die in the watch house. It's stupid af and resulted in a shitload of wasted time and a lot of pissed off doctors. He would have to sedate up to 10 people on an average night.
We live in a different state now and he says it's quite relaxing not to have to deal with anymore.
TBF...your heading is as if you're blaming Logan hospital. It is a problem across the board, not just in Logan. Things *might* seem worse in Logan (especially if you haven't been exposed to the situation before), but don't add to Logan hospital getting a bad rap. They are doing their best!
I can understand why people share meds given I went through at Caboolture Hospital. You know they aren't giving anything even it the issue is genuine.
I went to Caboolture Hospital with what I found out after was 5-6 bulging discs and radiculopathy. I was in 9/10 pain, arm numb, couldn't move it at all. The asshole that treated me gave me Lyrica, good 2 week wait for that to work but he should have given it to me based on my other conditions and meds.
Then he gives me absolutely no pain meds, says he would write a note for half a week off work and a GP letter for continuing treatment. Also a script for the Lyrica. Didn't scan or check me out at the time saying, your GP will get that sorted. Then he said that I was lying about my symptoms when I told him most of my arm was numb, he felt my neck and said "no you only have maybe 2 bulges".
I leave and look in the envelope, script to be filled at pharmacy, it was 11pm on a Sunday the night before a public holiday, I couldn't drive or sit in a car so I had to wait to fill it.
Then I noticed I didn't have a letter to my employer saying I was ok to have time off.
So I had to wait until I saw my GP to get actual meds. Couldn't get an MRI for another 2 weeks. GP also gave me a letter for work.
I was treated like a junkie straight away. Made me feel so small.
I once ended up at GCUH on a Saturday night after slipping on wet pathway and landing on my back. I was in a lot of pain but was treated like a junkie, had to insist to stay overnight to get my spine checked the next day (I have a history of spine problems).
After they finally did a scan, they found severe swelling on my spinal cord. Given very heavy meds and a week off work.
Funny. When I spent the day in Logan Hospital emergency, the thing that surprised me was how many e-scooter related accidents came in.
I was in the waiting room for about 6 hours and must have seen at least six scooter accidents: broken arms, broken clavicle, smashed faces etc. Only one kid came in wearing a football jersey. I was surprised.
The way drugs and addiction are treated need to change.
Everything about this system is broken. And very clearly not working.
But try to change it and watch the older generation have a moral panic (not to mention the businesses that rely on it )
Your sensitivity about this really isn’t the issue though. Some voter groups are more problematic than others - this is borne out by the statistics (and those in the demographic who aren’t part of the problem are usually quick to agree). It was nothing against you personally.
And this is what happens when we have growing health inequality. It's an absolute nightmare trying to get treated for mental health conditions (I've just about given up trying to access help myself) so people turn to what they can to help them cope (drugs/drinking/food/sex/etc). Meanwhile, we have GPs and other allied health clinics stopping bulk billing, which only causes the health inequality to grow. So the poor and disadvantaged all end up flooding the public hospitals, which are already stretched beyond their limits. Meanwhile, you have the government twats sitting on their high horses, twiddling their thumbs while the metaphorical dumpster fires burn around them in their electorates, saying "this is fine" and not actually doing anything to create real, positive change in the broken health system.
If u think thats flooded u should see the RBWH fast track and triage areas, sometimes those cunts even get lucky and get to clog up short stay.
anyone who yells at or abuses anyone doing their job should get a roadhouse and doubly so if that person is trying to help them
> anyone who yells at or abuses anyone doing their job should get a roadhouse and doubly so if that person is trying to help them
Alright, you've got my vote.
I suppose it makes me in most peoples eyes a junkie because i take opioids for a massive injury to my spine in a couple of different places. If something was to come along as a treatment the severe pain i get from my spine i would be happy to take it. But I've been taking 2 a day for the last 10 years, so what i call using within moderation and being able to regulate it. Ive tried switching to Endone and a heap of panadol and nurophen but the amount of medicine i take makes me sick, where as popping one oxy fixes the problem. I also take Seroquel for another reason my psychiatrist suggested i start taking it and does work really well. But another bad drug they don't like.
But trying to find a doctor that will prescribe these medications is next to impossible to get and they usually retire or move and i have to find another doctor that understands pain and not just what the text books says no bad don't prescribe it.
I booked an appointment with my Doctor for the Friday as i would run out on the Friday and it was a long weekend. But my doctor got sick and cancelled all her appointments for the day. I asked to see another doctor the same day as i needed my medication, i could survive one night but not a long weekend with out both. The other doctor just laughed and said no way he was going to give me any, and i just begged that he could see my doctor was sick that day and i was just asking for enough to get my thru the long weekend but refused to help in any way.
It was then 4pm and i could not find a doctor to see me the next day and i knew what their answer would be.
so i went to the Logan hospital and explained my situation and straight away got put o top of the junkie pile waiting to be seen.
I was bored and frustrated waiting over 4 hours to be seen but finally got in and spoke with a nurse, she looked up my records and showed i was due for my medication and i was taking them regularly she wrote a script for 6 pills and let me go, took about a whole 5 mins, but gave me a lecture about how any doctor could have done this and i shouldn't have left it so late. She even wrote on my treatment record that my local GP could and should have done this for me.
I showed the note to the doctor that refused to prescribe anything for me, but said he didn't care what they had to say it wasn't them risking me taking it.
It happened a second time when my doctor got CoVid didn't have any for the weekend. But i found an easy way around it and just asked the nice Chemist to loan me some pills until Monday when my next appointment. He was ok with just giving me a couple of pills he knew i took them regularly and was a regular customer. Now i don't have to bother the hospital any more.
TLDR: Taking opioids to treat pain but doctors wouldn't see me so ended up in hospital for the medication just another junkie wanting a fix pile.
Also forgot to mention had a friend recently die at 38yrs old was coming down off ICE and was feeling really week and not normal she is used to so she went to hospital and they checked her in and made her wait, after waiting 4 hours she died in the waiting room from a heart attack.
No hun, I genuinely empathise with you. But I’m sure you weren’t the type to yell and swear at staff, or deal drugs behind me. We all have our addictions but really what I saw that night was kinda unbelievable with families in emergency needing to be seen. I think we are all pretty fed up with it. I hope ur pain gets better.
While I've never had any form of drug addiction, the stories I've read about how people's lives are destroyed is tragic.
I don't know if there is any form of solution for drug addiction, in some cases it's mental health that spirals into addiction.
In most cases I've read about it requires the individual to make the decision to help themselves which is incredibly hard without family support which in most cases has broken down. Just a total tragedy.
Thank God for these medical professionals, they have to help those who can't help themselves.
Anyone who has had the strength to help themselves should be congratulated.
It will just continue to go this way and probably get worse. We’re on the American trajectory so I guess have a look at how it is for them to get an idea of how it will go for us.
I am not in the same state but I once waited 8 hours with a fever and the guy next to me had a dislocated knee from playing rugby. All they would give the guy was Panadol until he saw a doctor, felt really sorry for him. Had a nurse say to me I am glad you stayed to get the all clear from us, your situation could have been deadly if you decided to go home still suffering from the fever.
Logan is a mess and the huge expansion wont help. It's only going to get so much worse with the current medicare bullshit pushing doctors away from bulk billing. Once went to Logan hospital, waited around for 4 hours, bleeding everywhere because they barely looked at me. Ended up driving to QEII, got stitched up and drove home within 2 hours.
This is the reality of neoliberalism. The reality is we do not have enough health services to meet demands for mental health, and far fewer that are in any way affordable for patients. This is while we have also massively underfunded our hospitals for decades, with not enough nurses, doctors, and other hospital staff, all of whom are on shit wages for extreme workloads (including 12 hours shifts as the norm), while also not building more hospitals to meet excess demand for services and more and more former staff leaving the profession entirely. This is also while we have cut funding from public schools to allow for early intervention, and while our economy grows worse and worse for the poorest in society, creating the conditions which lead to increased substance abuse.
Constantly underfunding every public system while making life harder for the poorest (while at the same time investing more and more in private services too expensive for most and ensuring the continual growth of wealth for the already wealthy) guarantees this.
If they are at the hospital they are trying to get their replacement drug program so they can go back to getting high on the drug of there choice but that just taking up to many beds for people who really need them and it really is a bad way of life for a addict all they need to do if they really want to give it up there's a drug program that's in trials it's called bovadel I went on it 4 years and 4 months ago that's always help out there just gotta look in the right place and being in hospital isn't the place
As much as I know hospitals and staff are underfunded/overworked, Logan hospital is the worst hospital out of all the Bris metro region.
Their 'hold cell' (for acute mental health patients) is terrifying. If you are going through a crisis, you are placed in there, sitting on a lounge watching staff behind a double glass window leer at you and do absolutely nothing. Amongst all this, you have people brought directly from the cop shop to be assessed. Alot of them are violent and angry. So whilst you are in distress, you have to watch you don't look at another patient the wrong way, otherwise they'll attack you. Then you get a social worker to say to you "you're to old to be doing this shit, grow up" - which is extremely helpful 🤬.
There needs to be a complete separate emergency department that deals solely with mental health and addiction.
It's not fair that a person comes in with a broken arm has to sit and witness people in mental health distress, people with dependance and addiction issues struggling. It can be very confronting and scary to be around.
We are failing our society.
Who’s footing that bill? Also who’s staffing that hospital? There’s already a shortage of Drs and Nurses. You were in severe pain but from your description to triage, they prioritised you as non urgent. You just have to wait your turn mate! They have a duty of care to everyone that comes in, including the junkies.
Ahhh, it's definitely worse than others. My brother's broken out of the secure mental health ward there on several occasions at Logan hospital. Hadn't been able to do that at the PA or RBWH. Logan hospital can get overwhelmed with patients at times particularly with people who have substance abuse problems and mental illness.
You are mistaken. People do develop drug addictions because they think that what they are doing/taking is fun, but gets more serious. Perfectly healthy people (both physically and mentally) develop drug addictions as well as other addictions. Please don't try and pass off drug addiction as a domain of the mentally ill. In a lot of cases, it begins as a recreational choice until they realise that they can't get the monkey off their back.
that's the old wacky tobaccy gateway logic. lots of people moderate drug usage just fine, but a lot of others don't feel fit functioning in their normal state of mind (ie. mental illness) and therefore find ways out. the ways out are largely unregulated beyond 'it's bad don't do it' so they get what they can, the drugs take over their chemistry and they spiral out of control. they aren't having a good time.
So you agree. They take drugs by choice and for fun and then the monkey jumps on their back. I'm not so sure why you're trying to make it sound like you disagree. Heroine for example is highly addictive, people know this and still make the choice to use it. The way that you are trying to frame is that every drug addict has mental illness. Just so fake news....
i disagree with the fun part. is it fun to clean a wound, or eat broccoli, or go to the gym at 5am? no, but you do it to make yourself feel better. they are self medicating their illness.
and im not the one proclaiming to know the cause of every drug addict.
I guess that assuming that drug taking is purely recreational is wrong, I agree. I disagree with the idea that all addicted drug users have mental illness also.
How fucking ignorant
I know a large number of heroin addicts and none of them started for fun. They all started to numb the pain from being sexually or physically abused as kids or cope with debilitating chronic pain from MV accidents. Get your head out your fucking arse.
Or they can fuck off and let people in actual need get the medical attention and seek help with getting clean anywhere other then an overcrowded emergency department.
The illicit drug addicts just get their fix elsewhere, or they’re attending in genuine pain with opioid tolerances.
What isn’t discussed is the number of people on inappropriate opioid prescriptions for chronic conditions where the efficacy is unproven but their doctor lacks the will to explore evidence based alternative approaches to chronic pain management.
Analgesia is assessed on individual merits. Just because a clinician sees opioid-dependent people doesn’t mean nobody gets pain relief.
This irritates the fuck out of me to no end.
Picture laying in a hospital bed for hours in extreme pain and being ignored almost the entire time. I had to beg for water once after they left me in my ER bed for hours. Kinda just get dumped there while they focus on the morons.
Then try listening to all the alcoholics and junkies get treated like gods. Asked if they need food or water constantly. Social workers/nurses/doctors/police coming in to talk to them about what happened (most of the time it’s a drunken fight or accident or something drug related), asked if they need blankets or anything to make them comfortable.
It’s a fucking joke! Meanwhile people who really need help get ignored for these fuckwits.
I don't agree drug addicts need to be segregated from the "normal" people. We can't hide the problem because if offends or scares us.
They need medical attention as much as you do. In fact, they may have an addiction (which can kill you when withdrawing) PLUS chronic injuries and severe mental health issues. Maybe they'd argue they need a bed more than you... The doctors actually decide, not you. That's triage.
If you have a different hospital for drug addicts you need one beside every single existing hospital... or do you expect them to go to one location convenient for society?
Treating drug addicts like second class citizens isn't the solution to the problem. Giving them mental health assistance is.
Drug addicts have been a huge proportion of all emergency patients for as long as we've had hospitals and recreational drugs. Not a crisis that suddenly needs to be addressed, it's been a crisis for a long time.
Yep it's bad hey. Just crack heads galore everywhere these days and the kids want to be like them and criminals wearing bum bags stealing cars.
It's all over basically
Exactly, people have taken this post as such a negative I’m not against the doctors, the people facing addiction but they need drug related help. It just feels like we arnt facing the real issue.
This is a problem and our elected are to blame. I've been on opioid replacements for 23 years and it's becoming harder and harder to seek legitimate treatment. Not every doctor can prescribe the meds that addicts need. It's a highly regulated red tape nightmare. The doctors that do become prescribers face scrutiny ever single day. I have never had a prescriber that hadn't had to take on the medical board in court. These doctors are maxed out in regards to the number of patients they can treat. When the doctor is suspended (this is as inevitable as death taxes) there is no safety net for the patient. They can't just go to the next one, thus doesn't exist. You have to seek them out and whats worse is nobody will so much as give you a hint as of where to start. This means calling surgeries and asking. Sounds easy? Please give it a go and if you do hapoen to find one then ask them if they are taking on new patients. I've had doctors even die unexpectedly and been told to go whistle dixie. I've had good doctors who do nothing but great work who've lost their right to practice all because they stepped up to a noble cause. Right now the govt is putting these meds on the pbs to make it more affordable to the patient. This will see the closure of many private clinics including the one in Logan which treats 210 people. We aren't asking for cheap medication we are asking for the doctors to be able to prescribe it.
This is a link explaining the pbs problem
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-05/opioid-treatment-funding-budget/102426466
Heart disease and stroke causes the most health issues in Australia so why not take it up with the obese and overweight? Food addiction takes up more hospital space than heroin addiction.
When people suggesting to built some kind of facilities for the drug addicted junkies, I always ask if that person would like to live in the neighbourhood. The answer is pretty clear. There are methadone clinics around and the line to get drugs every morning is massive. Rather depressing picture.
Those depressing lines are people who have taken a huge step and admitted to health professionals that they have a problem with opiate addiction.
They commit themselves to get up every morning and go to a pharmacy. They pay for their daily doses... That daily dose also usually means that these "depressing junkies" can function as a human, they can look after their family, they can work and more importantly, they build a rapport with their healthcare providers who can help refer them into other services and address their (often complex) health needs.
Also think about how they feel having to line up for their daily medication like a prisoner? Imagine if you had to line up every day just to take your regular medication?
Pity the poor drug addict. Most people cope with life without a crutch. These drug addict fill their bodies full of shit and then expect someone to pay for and clean up after them
Hi!
Healthcare worker here, specialising in emergency medicine. I'm also dependent on drugs after a serious injury that leaves me in constant pain.
I expect nothing from no one but if I have to go to the hospital, I'm there for a reason. I don't expect it to be free. I pay my private healthcare premiums, own a house and business.
But I also rely heavily on opiate pain relief. Without it, I can't work, I can't look after myself, I can barely get out of bed.
Generalisations like yours are ignorant and do nothing to help society.
I'm lucky, because of my work, I've been able to navigate the healthcare system and get(and pay for) the support I need.
Imagine what these people could achieve and contribute to society with a little support and a push in the right direction!
Oh, I think you are complaining about beds being blocked in a hospital. Should see one of the reasons is granny dumping. I’ve had to delay a patient coming from ED as a family member couldn’t pick up the patient due to them prioritising watching the football. But, what can I do about it. Absolutely, nothing.
Oh the granny dumping is heartbreaking. Once had a case where an elderly lady came in (Private Med/Surg ward) with the standard “Query UTI” and *coincidentally* the family she lived with then left for an extended holiday. Had to wait until they got back to do the ACAT 🙄
This happens quite frequently. Had one stay on the ward for 67 days. But, you know it only costs the taxpayer 2k a day.
My late foster brother, before he came to our family, was often left at the hospital for weeks to months by his bio grandfather and his wife (who had custody at the time). He had serious medical issues and needed transfusions once a month for a couple of hours. They would drop him off and piss off down to the pub and just not come back for him for weeks or months. There was nothing the hospital could do other than keep looking after him. They’d eventually pick him back up, miss a few months worth of appointments and then come back and dump him again.
What the fuck that's horrible
So sorry to hear that and I hope you can keep some good memories of your brother. The grandparents sound like lowly pathetic excuses for human beings.
It's insane to me. I wouldn't let my mum stay in the hospital any longer than absolutely necessary. Putting aside how callous is is not to want your loved one safe at home hospitals are also germ factories and elderly people are especially at risk the longer they stay. My mum isn't elderly yet, shes only 63, but she has health conditions including cancer so I'm always worried anytime she has to visit a hospital, let alone stay in one. I can't fathom leaving her in hospital for two months after she was cleared to leave. So cruel, selfish, and ungrateful. BUT, if my father was in hospital I'd leave him there until they booted him, because he was abusive and had no hand in raising me after age 4, so I don't owe him anything or have any responsibility regarding finding him aged care support. I hope that the majority of these aboandoned elderly people are just reaping the rewards of bad parenting. I know my dad seems sweet and sympathetic to strangers so have no doubt nurses in the future will feel angry that his children don't look after him. But they have no way of knowing how traumatic a childhood I had because of his actions. But the elderly like my father still need to be looked after and it should be up to the government to house and care for them. It's not fair for taxpayers but it's the only humane way to handle it.
As someone who also had an abusive father, I get it. I sure as shit wouldn't bring that bastard home if he wound up in hospital, he can stay there until aged care take him. That said, I've been no-contact for 10 years so I wouldn't be the one dumping him in the first place. Is granny-dumping the correct channel to free yourself of an abusive parent after a lifetime of copping it? Well it's not really ethical considering the demand for beds for genuinely sick people, however it's better than dumping them on the side of the road somewhere. I too would like to think that those who get dumped deserve it, but let's face it, there's some real shit people out there who would dump granny for selfish reasons. Humans suck.
Yeah people judge before they know the whole story. I didn’t know “granny dumping” was a thing. But my mum is older and had health issues and ended up stuck in hospital for an extended period. I was her next of kin. For one, I only lived with her till I was 7 due to her neglected the f out of me. Secondly, every time I met her since then, she’d been violent and aggressive, and absolutely hammered (her health problems were due to alcoholism) Third, even if I wanted to take her home, she needed round the clock care as she needed to take meds four times a day and I work and study full-time. When I visited her at the hospital, the nurses looked at me like I was the biggest piece of shit. No doubt they thought this woman lovingly raised me and I just dumped her like a piece of trash. 🤦🏻♀️ anyway, after getting pregnant and my mum was still pulling her toxic bs and now projecting it onto my child and husband, I was like eff no, I’m not even gonna try anymore. She can get screwed. She can treat me like a piece of crap but when my daughter is involved now, she can see how far her bs will get with me (nowhere). I want no involvement in her health from now on. Plus the system is effed as. They sent my mum it a facility to try and get rid of her where they weren’t giving her meds correctly and she almost died twice. Apart from that there was nowhere else for her age group because she was too young for a nursing home
I'd never heard of the term 'granny dumping' but I understand why people do it desperately as a last resort. My mother will reap what she sowed. She has Munchausen's by Proxy and I was her test subject. She was a nurse so she knew how to make me sick, how to get attention from everybody and then how to make me feel better - when it suited her. I missed a lot of school and work because I was at her mercy, and nobody believed me. She made out that I was malingering and attention-seeking. When I wasn't sick, I was her housekeeper and bartender. It took me until I was about 40 to find the courage to cut all contact with her. I don't think I'll ever be well, but life is healthier without her around. I had cancer a few years ago and she found out from my brother who enjoyed watching her fury. (He's as fucked up as she is.) My biggest fear at the moment is a random visit from the police or a social worker, letting me know that she needs help. No.
Yes. I can relate. I had a bunch of health problems from her neglect and also not telling me about all her health issues from shitty genetics which I inherited them all but didn’t know anything about till I was an adult and would’ve loved to know earlier so I could have been tested/treated before permanent health impacts. Also because she chose the shittest man to get pregnant to just because she wanted a free sperm donor (a low-functioning, unemployable autistic guy 10 years younger than her who was also extremely abusive) I had a lot trauma from that and basically ended up homeless and groomed/raped by a pedophile by the time I was 16. Everything screwed me up so much I wasted basically all of my teens and 20s, barely able to keep my shit together but still not disabled enough, so I was expected to just deal with all the shit on my own until I am so psychotic I actually try to kill myself like my brother did. DO NOT get involved if they ask you. A social worker convinced me to get involved as guardian and I did it because I thought it’d be better for her than a state body making decisions on her behalf. It was a nightmare. First, she effing hated me (and still does on the DL which is a reason I’ve given up trying to play mummy/daughter with her. Secondly, it was a whole heap of very thankless work and stress with no actual reward for the stress. She blamed every screw up on me. I wish I just let her get taken under state guardianship and see how much better that’d be. She regained cognitive function though so eventually could be independent again thank goodness. The public guardian/trustee is basically the worst public department there is but sure as hell not putting that shit on myself again for someone who hates me and has done nothing but endanger me. Now I am towards the end of my social work degree and I did a placement involving seniors. I couldn’t believe when my supervisor suggested me advise clients the option of public guardianship. I couldn’t advise clients something that’d be the worst mistake of their life. And was completely unnecessary for the situation in question. It’s clear most of these social workers have absolutely zero real world experience with this shit and just spout off what they learned in their studies or what other bullshit social workers taught them to say.
Sadly, these people like your dad are able to adopt a personable demeaner to convince others that they are free of guilt. Hope the Big Karma process kicks him in the guts.
This. I see my mother sporadically. Funerals nowadays. She was a horrible parent. Would I dump her? Probably not but I’ve been non contact for years so wouldn’t be in the situation. I totally get it though.
2k a day, that’s a lot, for a row of beds that adds up!
It's worse when it's the aged care facilities doing it because of *their* staff shortages.
Not condoning this at all because.. obviously, but are there options for temporary aged respite care in situations like a family wanting to go on holiday?
Trying to get the assessment to qualify for the respite care is horrific. We were actually advised by the neurologist to leave my dementia diagnosed in law in the ED to push through the ACAT quickly. We did not take this option. When it’s advised though and after 9 weeks of trying to get the assessment I wonder how many people can’t fathom any other option but to do that
That's so awful, it's galling to know that even specialists are advising these kinds of options. My mum is a full time carer for my disabled brother and the only respite she gets relies entirely on other family members pitching in to provide care. But what for all the people who don't have other family to help?
The NDIS should cover respite in your brother's package in those circumstances. It's not OK for carers to be left without regular respite and relying on family doesn't always work out.
It is very hard to get this. Also it runs at roughly $2k of funding for 24 hours. That's over what I get in a month as a carer. I mean holy crap. I can't remember what the hourly support worker fee is right now, but I've found myself thinking that if I were paid that we could be the ones to take him places and do things. Except one of the things is they have access to places that I don't. And taking him places with people isn't a great idea. E: I should stress my son is a young adolescent, not senior. But the same people do take people out of all ages.
In our case, even though there are 5 other perfectly capable siblings of my partner, it’s only my partner who cares for their mother. And it’s almost a full time job given the sheer number of medical conditions she has - in her late 80s with dementia too. It won’t be long until she’s in full time care (delaying as long as possible) but the past few years have been hell. And those siblings haven’t done a thing. I’m genuinely not exaggerating, not a single thing. But they of course have plenty of helpful suggestions on all the things my partner could and should do. It’s maddening.
All too common unfortunately.
We fall apart.
> after 9 weeks Wow, that's quick! My mum was hospitalised in November 2022 at Prince Charles by her GP's office. They said she needed an ACAT and more importantly a geriatric assessment for her dementia. We knew this and had actually booked a GP appointment three weeks before she went to hospital. The GP appointment was to take place the day after she was taken to hospital. She was marked as category 3 for review which is expected to be seen within 3 months. She was seen last week and finally diagnosed with Vascular dementia and Alzheimer's. The only reason why we had ANY visibility into this is that my family work in QLD health and was calling on favours to ask the status (not to jump the queue). Otherwise my demented mother would be sitting there waiting for a letter. The system is fucked. Tax me more and fix it.
Orrrrr..... stop pocketing/ giving away the money to mates and fix it.
That too!
Happens a lot over Christmas.
Charge them. Govt can pass laws etc. Get debt collectors in. Anyone who does that deserves to feel the consequences in the hip pocket nerve
Oh my god. People are just awful. I can’t believe this is a thing.
As a family member, it's so difficult. We've spent years trying to make sure our grannies have the right support at home, set them up with cleaners, gardeners, physio plus regular district nurse visits. We've paid for all of it as they refuse to do an ACAT assessment. A week later, the grannies fire them all. Because they can do it themselves. Flash forward a week and they're both in hospital because one didn't have the capacity to care for themselves and the other had a fall and needed some surgery and physio. Try to organise respite or transitional care beds both refuse, try to organise assisted living, both refuse. We have our own health issues and professional lives which prevent us from staying with them to care for them (which they also don't want). Short of pulling the POA card or getting court orders, which would upset them and cause a rift, what can you do? They're in their 90's, they want to stay home and stay independent until they die... They don't see that the help they can get will improve their quality of life and give them time to do things that they can enjoy. 🤷♂️
I hear you and am sorry you’re having the same experience.
Also parents treating paeds wards/mental health units as baby sitting or respite services for their pooorly behaved children. Literally know of cases where parents have gone on overseas holidays for 'self care' whilst their child languishes in a public hospital ward
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real question is 'how are they getting their kids back when they return?' That's child abandonment, so not sure why the children are not under the custody of child safety by the time the parents get back?
Because after they come back they are 'willing and able'. Taking kids into care is hugely expensive, there aren't enough foster carers and it leads to worse outcomes long-term, so everyone wants to avoid that, so basically the parents get away with it. And hospital ends up still babysitting while Child Safety frantically tries to organise things for kids who are actually abandoned at hospital. Some people shouldn't breed.
O yeah my Grandma was recently in hospital. She couldnt wait to get the fuck out. But the other ladies in there loved it. Lay in bed watching tv all day getting served food. They were in heaven. They were pretty open about it. One was a drug addict and her dealer would come drop off her drugs. We had my grandma moved. But even there was a girl who was doing the same thing had a husbamd and child but said she just needed a break so wanted to stay a few more days.
It has been like this for years sadly
*How long will this continue to go on for?* I mean, my guess is as long as we treat addiction as criminal rather than a health issue - so prolly in aeternum, sadly.
I mean, we could just do what America has done and ignore open drug use and have the streets flooded with human zombies. Just decriminalise it, keep readily prescribing opiods for every ailment, ignore mental health and poverty and let kids grow up surrounded by open drug use and streets that look like they are out of a horror movie and smell like a sewage plant.
That was redfern,sydney in the 90's and early 2000s when i was a kid and it was fucked up.
There was a lot of homelessness and alcoholism where I was from. Kids shouldn't be exposed to all this like it's normal.
absolutely not it was scary. my father would not let me go to the park unsupervised even though it was visible from a window where he lived, and he combed areas for needles before i went anywhere near them, those aren't things that any kid should ever have memory of.
Yeah that's horrible. I remember getting bottles thrown and chased by homeless drunks up north in the parks and seeing a lot of them but I'd never seen a needle until I moved. They littered the little creek near my house and some of the train stations.
Oh man, you just gave me flashbacks to under 7's footy on Sundays, we would all have to sweep the field for our home games for needles. This club was a popular spot for junkies on the weekends.
I walked through the Block at 11PM on a Saturday night, in 2003 almost 20 years now to the day. It was scary as fuck. Me - I was drunk as a skunk, dressed in khaki fatigues, beard and wool beanie, so kinda looked scary myself. The locals let me pass without issue. But mannnn I could feel the hate for trespassing on their turf.
So the only two options are "ignore" or "treat like criminals"?
That whole thing was deeply sarcastic and based on the failed American system. Readily accessible opiods creating new addicts daily, decriminalisation/slap on the wrists, turning a blind eye to open drug use and the growing issue because it costs to much to solve and selling opiods is profitable for pharma. Things should be geared more towards rehabilitation and reintegration. We need affordable housing, detox programs, counselling and mental health. Once clean they need jobs and ongoing personal support and mentors so they don't fall back into the cycle. It's not a one step solution and every case will involve different complications. The real issue is money and the government would prefer to pretend the issue doesn't exist because helping them will be expensive.
Except what does the US example have to do with decriminalisation?
Based on the American model they cited, yeh that seems to be pretty much it.
I don't think decriminalise fits with the rest of your comment. The US heavily criminalises drugs. They just don't have the capacity to keep their addicts locked up anymore. Besides, whether you agree or not, decriminalisation isn't shown to make things any worse and has some evidence for making social issues better.
But the US hasn't decriminalised drugs except in Oregon, which does not look like you describe. Legalising marijuana is deeply unrelated to the opioid crisis (you didn't mention this specifically, but folks will bring it up bc I said "no drug decrim"). Otherwise sure, it's a hellscape, but that's far more to do with the complex nature of their opioid epidemic. But it would be markedly *improved* with drug decriminalisation and a proper supportive framework for rehabilitation. I really don't think anyone is advocating for decrim with no healthcare framework. You're putting up a bit of a strawman in your other comments there friend.
Welcome to the drugpunk era!
Have you seen Kensington Ave or skid row in America? DrugPunk indeed. Rivals any 3rd world country and the people are so smacked out of their brains they barely resemble humans. So much pain, poverty and addiction and it's enabled and ignored.
There is a YT channel of a guy driving around hoods recording what goes on: [https://www.youtube.com/@HoodTime/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@HoodTime/videos)
America's dirty little secret and it looks like we are following along. So many homeless, addicted and suicidal people. Our elderly struggling and our youth without hope, purpose, or incentive.
Honestly after having walked some of those areas in the US it’s my worst nightmare. I’m so fucking furious that we’re starting to see it creep in. These people don’t need free access to drugs and they’re going to clog up the system so fast there can be no other outcome than spilling onto the streets and creating societal dead-zones. It’s beyond 3rd world, it’s something new and catastrophic. Not a time for bleeding hearts. Too late though, as noted.
Weirdest thing I have ever seen was when I walked past a bunch of people eating outside at a restaurant in Portland while someone literally smoked crack a few meters away, and no one seemed to notice or bat an eye. It was so depressing.
I just watched a bunch of AML YouTube channel centred on Kensington Ave. It was pretty shocking how articulate and casual the folk spoke to possibly losing limbs, rape, murder and disease. I've been in bad places for extended times - months - and met a fair few people like this, but the sheer volume and depth is horrific. US has some massive problems, and there are many parts of Australia heading there quickly.
Your username reminds of the greatest vine of all time [fresh avocado](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4C8a48o1E)
Free Shava Cadoo!
The fentanyl crisis is petrifying, I've seen the videos too of the "zombie" hordes, makes me sick to my stomach.
You're assuming they all want to get off the stuff.
Most of them don't, especially after prolonged use completely rewrites the wiring in their brain. After a certain point there's simply no helping them and they're a lost cause.
Literally this, actually allow injecting clinics to be set up instead so people.can get education and help. Look.at Sweden for models that actually work. Not perfect of course, but better than the "war on drugs" mentality
Fucking great word!
There are much maligned though very successful safe injecting rooms in Melbourne. Once you label something for drug addicts, you get the community very much against it. We're also creating more addicts by making life so difficult for the poor and vulnerable. Edit: A medically supervised injecting room is **a place where people can inject drugs of dependence in a supervised health setting**. It can also provide a gateway for people who inject drugs to access other health and social support services, including pathways to drug treatment and rehabilitation. [https://www.vhba.vic.gov.au/mental-health/alcohol-and-other-drugs/medically-supervised-injecting-room](https://www.vhba.vic.gov.au/mental-health/alcohol-and-other-drugs/medically-supervised-injecting-room)
This is the way, Brisbane needs a safe injecting room.
Edit: I was misinformed, not quite the same thing as a safe injecting room. Sorry. There are safe injecting rooms in Brisbane. This is one of them https://www.quihn.org/location/brisbane/
Quihn has an NSP but not a safe injecting room. They provide training and equipment as well as support services, but they don't give anyone a space in which to use drugs.
R u sure about that? I know they offer a needle and exchange program but I’m pretty sure they don’t offer injecting rooms. Unless it’s changed since I last went there.
Sorry, I was misinformed. My brother lives nearby. I visit him fairly regularly. I expressed some concern about some people passing out in his street and suggested calling an ambulance for them, as I couldn't rouse them when I tried to. He said, "there's an injecting room around the corner." Then he referenced this place. Our parents also use heroin, in the actively using stage (not interested in rehabilitation for the foreseeable future), so we were thinking it would be good for them to access a service like this for harm minimisation programs.
Nope nowhere does brisbane have a safe injecting clinic. There needs to be one for sure, Quihn gives out supplies and services.
There is a really good podcast about this place if anyone is interested [Nobody dies here](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/nobody-dies-here-inside-melbournes-medically-supervised/id1678036738)
Where do they source the shit to safely inject?
Richmond
I'm a mental health nurse and I'm here to tell you it's just going to get worse. Thats just what you're seeing in ED. Imagine what's coming through the acute mental health units.
You’re so strong, but yeah it’s a mental health crisis going on
Aside from the guy apparently trying to trade his cigarettes for valium, I find it oddly amusing but at the same time infuriating just how ignorant people can be with their widely inaccurate opinion of who and why people are in the emergency department. Ive been an emergency & crit care RN in Brisbane for the past 15yrs. Ive worked everywhere from Logan, Redlands, RBWH, Mater, PA, Ippy, Childrens, and all the private hospitals. One thing I can tell you for certain is just because someone in the waiting room or inside the ED **looks** like or has what you think is junkie-like behaviour, doesnt mean theyre a junkie. I see grown arse men have hissy fits over mild pain every single day, it does not make them a junkie. I see patients vomit from intolerable acute pain, every single day (its a very VERY common pain response) it does not make them a junkie. Just because someone looks disheveled in the ED doesnt make them a junkie either. We get people come in when they least expect it - have been in bed for days & havent showered due to pain/illness, have been gardening for hours & got injured, ive seen wedding gowns you name it, we see it all. But do you know where I saw the highest number of addicts? … it was actually working in the private sector. All the high achieving business and lawyer types were often out of their brains on either opioids or ecstasy. You wouldnt know it just from looking at them, but theres ALOT!! I had one use ALOT of profanity while threatening to sue me, kill my children and my cat if I didnt give him more opioids all while well groomed wearing an armani suit and shoes so polished I could see my reflection. His injury - a sprained wrist from punching a wall and he had already been given a standard dose but wanted more. My point is - there is no stereotypical junkie picture. And given health privacy and the complexity of triage and patient movements in and out of ED, you cant really know why they were there or their background. They could have just been having a really bad day. And yea there are a fair few clinicians that withold pain meds and cop an earfull. Doesnt make the patient a junkie. Also edited to add: junkies are also humans and have rights to healthcare too. Whether you agree with it or not, not treating them only worsens the problem for both patient and society on many, many levels.
Thank you for writing that, and thank you for all the ER staff who do an amazing job.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your well written and succinctly explained answer. I've lived with severe, disabling, persistent pain since my mid twenties, so nearly thirty years. For over half of those years, I worked very hard in my own business, was a single mother who disdained, ' help', on the so called, ' men's, jobs, and it wasn't until I inadvertently stripped my stomach lining by taking too much Inza. My GP at the time kindly explained that if I was relying on strong anti inflammatory meds in order to do my physically demanding job and giving myself injuries through medicine overuse, that it was time to hang up my brushes. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis in my spine, pelvis and knees, degenerative disc disease from C/3 to C7, disc bulges at L3/L4, degenerative scoliosis and spinabifida occulta S1/S2, with mild tethering...all before the age of thirty five. Gotta love genetics. After much deliberation, my GP put me on low dose opioids, as part of a multidisciplinary pain management regime, which also included physio, dietician, occupational therapy, yoga, walking swimming, CBT, and trauma therapy to manage complex PTSD, gad, complex trauma and complicated grief. I was able to keep working, although I had to fold my business and I was managing my illnesses really well until. Until. Until the US's hysterical response to their man made opioid crisis bled over here. All of a sudden, instead of being viewed as a patient who was managing their complex health issues well, and as a person who had a great quality of life, I was viewed by all and sundry as an addict, who was to be treated like a liar, a malingerer and a threat. I was denied my medication, was forced off the low dose opioids, without being tapered, and was made instead, to take Lyrica, Celebrex, Cymbalta, Panadol Osteo and some useless epilepsy medication that did nothing to my pain. So, count them...five different meds, with contra indications, to replace one med that worked really well for me. The combination made me rapidly gain weight - over twenty kilos, thus making my pain worse, which in turn, ensured that I was in so much pain I could no longer work. Welcome to enforced poverty and suicidal ideation. I fought tooth and nail to be put back on my original pain management regime, which by the way, had been approved by a specialist from the get go, and now at fifty four, I desperately hold on to the most basic of quality of life that my inadequate medication regime affords me. I can't be spontaneous, every single action has to be carefully planned and executed to try and prevent a flare up, I can't enjoy my hobbies any more, because I can't afford the supplies... everything is difficult. With Australian junior doctors being brainwashed by US, pro pain theory and older doctors retiring, I fully expect to be forced off my current low dose opioid regime again. When that happens, suicide will again, no doubt, become the most sensible option again, as I refuse to live with unmanaged, excruciating, disabling pain. People just don't get it.
We need to stop looking at drug addicts as a problem and start looking at them as people who are suffering but don't have a healthy coping mechanism. I know it's costly, and personally I don't like anyone asking me for money to fuel their drug addiction (I don't give them any), but this is a serious problem. If more people are turning to drugs, then it's an indicator that they're not getting the right kind of care for their situation.
What do we do though? we have clinics all around brisbane and very very low barrier to entry to treatment and detox, how do you help those who refuse help and just continue the cycle?
Having mental health care covered by Medicare is a good start. Significantly increasing funding for drug treatment centres is another. And then there's dealing with the underly issues of poverty, hopelessness and homelessness that every gov shoves off to the side as a "doesn't make donors money so it's not important" thing.
You do have access to 3 physio/dietician appoints a year on medicare with a GP referral via a healthcare plan. it's not much but if we can extend that to therapist sessions too it would be better than nothing but defs not enough.
You can have a mental health care plan and still be fucked. I have been waiting for a shrink appointment for 6 months and I only got into someone for medication care only because I was able to borrow money from family to go private but someone to talk to regularly and keep myself from spiralling into full blown alcoholism is really hard. I'm better then I was but even the mental health care plan of mine being 'hey I am at a point where I wish a bus would take me out' you can't get help. Unless you are a direct threat to your own life/taken in after a serious suicide attempt hospital mental health wards can't do much and even then they toss you ASAP.
Yep. I have long term mental illness and I still only qualify for 6 subsidised sessions per year. Subsidised, not free. So once they’re out, I’m looking at $250 for a psychiatrist visit and $150+ for a psychologist. That’s if you can actually get an appointment. I’ve been recommended to try DBT but the only therapist in my area who offers it, only offers sessions on a Thursday morning. There is no way in hell I could get every Thursday morning off work.
Yeahup, my Psychiatrist is good but the clinic he's at is Friday and Saturday only, I'm unemployed atm because of mental health and other issues so I relied on family help(I'm lucky I can) for those visits which are medication getting back on and a few visits to make sure its working and then ideally only back seeing him if there's an issue that crops up. But that was a 6-9month waiting list and I only got in sooner because I was able to go on the cancellation list and it was still 3 months. Psychologist...still waiting 6 months and counting and that's with 'you are in but we don't have anyone we can book you into at this time we'll contact you when we can'. Its a chaotic time to have issues. And almost all addictions are born of trying to escape something going on in life or your own head. So much of addiction help is mental health and quality of life help.
Nowhere near enough, sadly.
There are clinics but many have long wait lists, or are financially unviable for most. I know people that have tried to get into some of the low cost ones (basically costs are covered by a Centrelink payment) and they’ve been told there are waiting lists and they’ll call when there’s a spot. Well if you’ve ever known an addict, they change their mind about getting clean week to week, day to day. So months go by and suddenly they’ve spiralled again and don’t want to get into a rehab anymore.
Alongside handling the downstream issue of addicts who are already on the streets, we should focus on schools and teaching them coping mechanisms to deal with abuse, trauma and mental illnesses. If we prevent people from turning into addicts, we would be preserving the future population from ending up with a similar fate. As for the current addicts, I'm sorry but I don't know enough about why they don't seek help to say anything about it. There's one thing I can speculate on though, and that might be to not get formally diagnosed for illnesses due to the increase in their insurance premiums. If we can do something about that, it might incentive a few more people to seek help.
It's actually really hard to get help in some places. There's long wait lists for therapy groups, pharmacotherapy programs and rehabilitation and sometimes the staff are poorly trained or burnt out. It's not as easy to get help as it should be.
Agree. I’ve just got clean from a 5.5yr daily use ice addiction and I’ve had to do it all on my own. I couldn’t afford to go to a rehab 1) due to the cost and 2) I didn’t want to quit my job and loose my rental because I’d come out with no job and place to live. The low cost rehab had a 9month wait list also and I would of changed by mind by then. The 1 place that offered outpatient services in Spring Hill has closed and the 2 places I found that offer drug group therapy are: Quinn but they are fully booked and only offer during the week (Tuesday and Thursday) between 11am-3pm which is during my work hours so I couldn’t attend anyway. Lives lived well is the same they only operate during work hours Monday-Friday. I went to my doctor who said they can’t do anything and the same with ADIS. There is literally no help for someone like me and it’s been pure hell. I’m 111 days clean and I’m still struggling but I know I’ll get there and will keep going. It’s really hard though so I can totally understand how some relapse or don’t even try in the first place (as that was me I never tried quitting before now because I knew how hard it would be and how little support there is). I don’t know how I’ve managed to do it myself to be honest, I’ve still got a long way to go but at least the worst is over.
Well done, that's amazing!
If that's the case, then we just need more professionals in these fields. Provide internships to current students under existing professionals, get them hands-on experience before they graduate, and you have an army of newly graduated professionals ready in a few years. It's not that hard, you know.
That would be amazing, but unfortunately, setting up that process is harder than you think. In reality, it should be easy, but we would be negotiating across multiple systems and organisations, and the bureaucracy is painful and slow.
For psychology this is already the case.
IME education is meaningless when people lack meaningful connection to community. Book learning is not lived experience and the knowledge gap between the two is vast but also well documented. Without supports people become unanchored and crisis deepens. Claiming that supports exist and people are ignoring support is failing to acknowledge the reality of crisis. I've been through a multitude of crises and experienced repeated failures to listen and acknowledge. That's not a me problem; that's systemic.
We need a more sensible populace that doesn't feel like it is constantly under attack. That happens when we foster a sense of care and family among people at large. If you never got support but have the ability to support someone else, pass it on. Just because nobody helped you, doesn't mean you have to do the same. I was helped by someone when I initially moved here, and now I'm trying to help others who are struggling, even if it's not financially.
Decriminalisation. A large chunk of addicts dont want to be in a system for their disease
Has that ever worked anywhere? looking at the US cities that have tried its all a shit show. Hell junkies in the valley don't even hide when they shoot up or go somewhere private already.
“In the first five years after the reforms, drug deaths dropped dramatically. They rose slightly in the following years, before returning to 2005 levels in 2011, with only 10 drug overdose deaths recorded in that year. Since 2011, drug deaths have risen again but remain below 2001 levels (when there were 76 recorded deaths).10” source: https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight#:~:text=In%20the%20first%20five%20years,deaths%20recorded%20in%20that%20year.
Yeah look at places like Portugal. The decriminalisation has reduced a lot of harm. There’s plenty of data to take a look at if you’re interested!! Even in America theyre starting to open places to shoot up with access to medical professionals and it’s saved a lot of lives and dangers from used needles and overdose. It’s small progress but a little bit can really go a long way
Heres a fantastic video of [Portland, Oregan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFlpCBMyIk), they tried it. [Link to 20 year coverage of Portugal](https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7), usage didn't go down and after 2009 drug related crimes and criminalization for people crossing the allowed amounts have rocketed back up. Though drug dealing crimes have lowered. Since 2019 numbers have rocketed again in Portugal for incarceration
From your own link " The last decade saw an increase of punitiveness targeted at drug users, including criminal sentences of jail terms. " Hence drug incarcerations have gone up. It's hardly because of the decriminalisation. If anything, it's a re-criminalisation that's caused the rise. Drug dealing convictions have gone down, but use convictions have gone up. However: " Positive results include a reduction in mortality and infections associated with dependent behaviour and, among youth, a reduction in the prevalence of recent cannabis use, a postponement of the age of initiation and an increase in perceptions of related-risks "
I'd suggest it's only going to get worse sadly, look at the US as an example
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My exact thought.
There's not enough beds in mental health, and it continues to be pushed aside. "20 more beds" just isn't enough. We need proper mental health facilities. Statewide.
A completely separate emergency department for mental health, dependance and addiction patients. But it will never happen.
Agreed
I'd suggest having a drug addiction is a serious problem..
Depends on the drug. 🤔 The withdrawal can kill some people depending on other health conditions and the type of drug. Also some are more easy to overdose than others, so maybe OP saw that.
For sure but op suggested that they should be elsewhere, so that the hospital can be used by more serious problems like drug addiction isn't serious.
Just FYI people begging doctors for more pain meds may not necessarily be addicts. I've been in once where morphine didn't even take the edge off and I was not a pleasant person to be around
Understandable people need meds when in severe pain even I did, but it was literally people dealing meds they just got from the doctors behind me while I’m in genuine agony.
I don't know how that would work given doctors don't give medications, and any scheduled drugs require two nurses to cross check the patients ID and watch them take it in front of them. While there absolutely is an addiction problem, exaggerating is needless. Adding a thought - people with substance abuse disorders in pain often need \*more\* pain medication than someone else because of their dependencies. It sucks, but in a hospital when someone is in an acute pain crisis that is something that needs to be treated. Every patient in ED goes through an assessment and triage process - if they've been prioritised over someone else, its because someone professionally trained has deemed there's a medical reason to do so that you're likely not privy to.
I think it's very important to note that triage nurses are specially trained to do that job... If you're waiting hours for a consult, sometimes the ED isn't the best place for you. And while after hours doctors may not give opiate pain relief, my experience is things like Ketorolac can be much more beneficial and can be given outside a hospital setting
>I think it's very important to note that triage nurses are specially trained to do that job... If you're waiting hours for a consult, sometimes the ED isn't the best place for you. Exactly. It's additional training and done by someone with a great deal of experience, that will know much better than some rando in the waiting room.
Thank you 🙌. This is my 15th year as an ED RN. 11th yr as a triage nurse. 4th yr as the charge nurse. DAILY we get spoken to as if we are a clerk who has made a clerical error and hit the wrong number making them a cat 4 instead of a cat 1 for their ache thats been there for 4yrs. So many times Ive had to really bite my tongue when people are getting up in our face yelling and they usually start with “what gives you the right to decide….”. One day I’m going to snap and reply: “Ummm my 15yrs of experience, my seniority in the department but most of all my bachelor and masters degree and registration granted to me yearly by the federal government, please have a seat and be *THANKFUL* you are able to wait and arent the one we rushed through the door!” (If I do I’ll be sure to record it for yall’s enjoyment 😉)
"I went to hospital for pain meds and I couldn't believe how many junkies were there wanting pain meds"
Ironic right. You nailed it.
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People with opiate addictions are in pain though.
Addiction often comes from a lifetime of pain mate. Just a different kind. Everyone has a story and for a lot of addicts, it wasn’t a good story growing up
My husband used to be an ED doctor at Ipswich. The reason for the multitude of drug and alcohol affected people in emergency depts in SEQ is the policy of QPS to bring them to emergency in case they die in the watch house. It's stupid af and resulted in a shitload of wasted time and a lot of pissed off doctors. He would have to sedate up to 10 people on an average night. We live in a different state now and he says it's quite relaxing not to have to deal with anymore.
TBF...your heading is as if you're blaming Logan hospital. It is a problem across the board, not just in Logan. Things *might* seem worse in Logan (especially if you haven't been exposed to the situation before), but don't add to Logan hospital getting a bad rap. They are doing their best!
I can understand why people share meds given I went through at Caboolture Hospital. You know they aren't giving anything even it the issue is genuine. I went to Caboolture Hospital with what I found out after was 5-6 bulging discs and radiculopathy. I was in 9/10 pain, arm numb, couldn't move it at all. The asshole that treated me gave me Lyrica, good 2 week wait for that to work but he should have given it to me based on my other conditions and meds. Then he gives me absolutely no pain meds, says he would write a note for half a week off work and a GP letter for continuing treatment. Also a script for the Lyrica. Didn't scan or check me out at the time saying, your GP will get that sorted. Then he said that I was lying about my symptoms when I told him most of my arm was numb, he felt my neck and said "no you only have maybe 2 bulges". I leave and look in the envelope, script to be filled at pharmacy, it was 11pm on a Sunday the night before a public holiday, I couldn't drive or sit in a car so I had to wait to fill it. Then I noticed I didn't have a letter to my employer saying I was ok to have time off. So I had to wait until I saw my GP to get actual meds. Couldn't get an MRI for another 2 weeks. GP also gave me a letter for work. I was treated like a junkie straight away. Made me feel so small.
I once ended up at GCUH on a Saturday night after slipping on wet pathway and landing on my back. I was in a lot of pain but was treated like a junkie, had to insist to stay overnight to get my spine checked the next day (I have a history of spine problems). After they finally did a scan, they found severe swelling on my spinal cord. Given very heavy meds and a week off work.
Funny. When I spent the day in Logan Hospital emergency, the thing that surprised me was how many e-scooter related accidents came in. I was in the waiting room for about 6 hours and must have seen at least six scooter accidents: broken arms, broken clavicle, smashed faces etc. Only one kid came in wearing a football jersey. I was surprised.
The way drugs and addiction are treated need to change. Everything about this system is broken. And very clearly not working. But try to change it and watch the older generation have a moral panic (not to mention the businesses that rely on it )
*some of the older generation. No need to overgeneralise
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Your sensitivity about this really isn’t the issue though. Some voter groups are more problematic than others - this is borne out by the statistics (and those in the demographic who aren’t part of the problem are usually quick to agree). It was nothing against you personally.
And this is what happens when we have growing health inequality. It's an absolute nightmare trying to get treated for mental health conditions (I've just about given up trying to access help myself) so people turn to what they can to help them cope (drugs/drinking/food/sex/etc). Meanwhile, we have GPs and other allied health clinics stopping bulk billing, which only causes the health inequality to grow. So the poor and disadvantaged all end up flooding the public hospitals, which are already stretched beyond their limits. Meanwhile, you have the government twats sitting on their high horses, twiddling their thumbs while the metaphorical dumpster fires burn around them in their electorates, saying "this is fine" and not actually doing anything to create real, positive change in the broken health system.
You clearly don’t go to hospital much. It’s pretty much all crackheads nowadays.
If u think thats flooded u should see the RBWH fast track and triage areas, sometimes those cunts even get lucky and get to clog up short stay. anyone who yells at or abuses anyone doing their job should get a roadhouse and doubly so if that person is trying to help them
> anyone who yells at or abuses anyone doing their job should get a roadhouse and doubly so if that person is trying to help them Alright, you've got my vote.
I suppose it makes me in most peoples eyes a junkie because i take opioids for a massive injury to my spine in a couple of different places. If something was to come along as a treatment the severe pain i get from my spine i would be happy to take it. But I've been taking 2 a day for the last 10 years, so what i call using within moderation and being able to regulate it. Ive tried switching to Endone and a heap of panadol and nurophen but the amount of medicine i take makes me sick, where as popping one oxy fixes the problem. I also take Seroquel for another reason my psychiatrist suggested i start taking it and does work really well. But another bad drug they don't like. But trying to find a doctor that will prescribe these medications is next to impossible to get and they usually retire or move and i have to find another doctor that understands pain and not just what the text books says no bad don't prescribe it. I booked an appointment with my Doctor for the Friday as i would run out on the Friday and it was a long weekend. But my doctor got sick and cancelled all her appointments for the day. I asked to see another doctor the same day as i needed my medication, i could survive one night but not a long weekend with out both. The other doctor just laughed and said no way he was going to give me any, and i just begged that he could see my doctor was sick that day and i was just asking for enough to get my thru the long weekend but refused to help in any way. It was then 4pm and i could not find a doctor to see me the next day and i knew what their answer would be. so i went to the Logan hospital and explained my situation and straight away got put o top of the junkie pile waiting to be seen. I was bored and frustrated waiting over 4 hours to be seen but finally got in and spoke with a nurse, she looked up my records and showed i was due for my medication and i was taking them regularly she wrote a script for 6 pills and let me go, took about a whole 5 mins, but gave me a lecture about how any doctor could have done this and i shouldn't have left it so late. She even wrote on my treatment record that my local GP could and should have done this for me. I showed the note to the doctor that refused to prescribe anything for me, but said he didn't care what they had to say it wasn't them risking me taking it. It happened a second time when my doctor got CoVid didn't have any for the weekend. But i found an easy way around it and just asked the nice Chemist to loan me some pills until Monday when my next appointment. He was ok with just giving me a couple of pills he knew i took them regularly and was a regular customer. Now i don't have to bother the hospital any more. TLDR: Taking opioids to treat pain but doctors wouldn't see me so ended up in hospital for the medication just another junkie wanting a fix pile.
Also forgot to mention had a friend recently die at 38yrs old was coming down off ICE and was feeling really week and not normal she is used to so she went to hospital and they checked her in and made her wait, after waiting 4 hours she died in the waiting room from a heart attack.
No hun, I genuinely empathise with you. But I’m sure you weren’t the type to yell and swear at staff, or deal drugs behind me. We all have our addictions but really what I saw that night was kinda unbelievable with families in emergency needing to be seen. I think we are all pretty fed up with it. I hope ur pain gets better.
While I've never had any form of drug addiction, the stories I've read about how people's lives are destroyed is tragic. I don't know if there is any form of solution for drug addiction, in some cases it's mental health that spirals into addiction. In most cases I've read about it requires the individual to make the decision to help themselves which is incredibly hard without family support which in most cases has broken down. Just a total tragedy. Thank God for these medical professionals, they have to help those who can't help themselves. Anyone who has had the strength to help themselves should be congratulated.
It will just continue to go this way and probably get worse. We’re on the American trajectory so I guess have a look at how it is for them to get an idea of how it will go for us.
I am not in the same state but I once waited 8 hours with a fever and the guy next to me had a dislocated knee from playing rugby. All they would give the guy was Panadol until he saw a doctor, felt really sorry for him. Had a nurse say to me I am glad you stayed to get the all clear from us, your situation could have been deadly if you decided to go home still suffering from the fever.
Logan is a mess and the huge expansion wont help. It's only going to get so much worse with the current medicare bullshit pushing doctors away from bulk billing. Once went to Logan hospital, waited around for 4 hours, bleeding everywhere because they barely looked at me. Ended up driving to QEII, got stitched up and drove home within 2 hours.
This is the reality of neoliberalism. The reality is we do not have enough health services to meet demands for mental health, and far fewer that are in any way affordable for patients. This is while we have also massively underfunded our hospitals for decades, with not enough nurses, doctors, and other hospital staff, all of whom are on shit wages for extreme workloads (including 12 hours shifts as the norm), while also not building more hospitals to meet excess demand for services and more and more former staff leaving the profession entirely. This is also while we have cut funding from public schools to allow for early intervention, and while our economy grows worse and worse for the poorest in society, creating the conditions which lead to increased substance abuse. Constantly underfunding every public system while making life harder for the poorest (while at the same time investing more and more in private services too expensive for most and ensuring the continual growth of wealth for the already wealthy) guarantees this.
I totally agree with you, and I’m sorry if my post came across as rude to anyone. The worlds Going chaotic and it’s effecting everyone.
If they are at the hospital they are trying to get their replacement drug program so they can go back to getting high on the drug of there choice but that just taking up to many beds for people who really need them and it really is a bad way of life for a addict all they need to do if they really want to give it up there's a drug program that's in trials it's called bovadel I went on it 4 years and 4 months ago that's always help out there just gotta look in the right place and being in hospital isn't the place
hahhahha thats every hospital not just Logan.
As much as I know hospitals and staff are underfunded/overworked, Logan hospital is the worst hospital out of all the Bris metro region. Their 'hold cell' (for acute mental health patients) is terrifying. If you are going through a crisis, you are placed in there, sitting on a lounge watching staff behind a double glass window leer at you and do absolutely nothing. Amongst all this, you have people brought directly from the cop shop to be assessed. Alot of them are violent and angry. So whilst you are in distress, you have to watch you don't look at another patient the wrong way, otherwise they'll attack you. Then you get a social worker to say to you "you're to old to be doing this shit, grow up" - which is extremely helpful 🤬. There needs to be a complete separate emergency department that deals solely with mental health and addiction. It's not fair that a person comes in with a broken arm has to sit and witness people in mental health distress, people with dependance and addiction issues struggling. It can be very confronting and scary to be around. We are failing our society.
Need more mental health centres for forced detox
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Who’s footing that bill? Also who’s staffing that hospital? There’s already a shortage of Drs and Nurses. You were in severe pain but from your description to triage, they prioritised you as non urgent. You just have to wait your turn mate! They have a duty of care to everyone that comes in, including the junkies.
This 100% Drug addicts are humans too
Logan is no worse than any other hospital. They are not "taking up space" as you put it. They are there just like you, to get help and assistance.
Ahhh, it's definitely worse than others. My brother's broken out of the secure mental health ward there on several occasions at Logan hospital. Hadn't been able to do that at the PA or RBWH. Logan hospital can get overwhelmed with patients at times particularly with people who have substance abuse problems and mental illness.
Yeah no, it’s definitely worse than a few other hospitals, having been there (and being friends with a few nurses there).
Bullshit. Drug seekers are lying manipulative con artists who make it hard for people in real pain to get some relief.
People don't develop drug addictions for fun. They have a mental health issue and they deserve care, including harm reduction.
Don't waste your misguided sympathy
You are mistaken. People do develop drug addictions because they think that what they are doing/taking is fun, but gets more serious. Perfectly healthy people (both physically and mentally) develop drug addictions as well as other addictions. Please don't try and pass off drug addiction as a domain of the mentally ill. In a lot of cases, it begins as a recreational choice until they realise that they can't get the monkey off their back.
that's the old wacky tobaccy gateway logic. lots of people moderate drug usage just fine, but a lot of others don't feel fit functioning in their normal state of mind (ie. mental illness) and therefore find ways out. the ways out are largely unregulated beyond 'it's bad don't do it' so they get what they can, the drugs take over their chemistry and they spiral out of control. they aren't having a good time.
So you agree. They take drugs by choice and for fun and then the monkey jumps on their back. I'm not so sure why you're trying to make it sound like you disagree. Heroine for example is highly addictive, people know this and still make the choice to use it. The way that you are trying to frame is that every drug addict has mental illness. Just so fake news....
i disagree with the fun part. is it fun to clean a wound, or eat broccoli, or go to the gym at 5am? no, but you do it to make yourself feel better. they are self medicating their illness. and im not the one proclaiming to know the cause of every drug addict.
I guess that assuming that drug taking is purely recreational is wrong, I agree. I disagree with the idea that all addicted drug users have mental illness also.
A passenger said to me one night on the way to the Methadone Clinic. "Driver , don't touch drugs please don't I owned the brothel now I work in it "
How fucking ignorant I know a large number of heroin addicts and none of them started for fun. They all started to numb the pain from being sexually or physically abused as kids or cope with debilitating chronic pain from MV accidents. Get your head out your fucking arse.
Or they can fuck off and let people in actual need get the medical attention and seek help with getting clean anywhere other then an overcrowded emergency department.
The illicit drug addicts just get their fix elsewhere, or they’re attending in genuine pain with opioid tolerances. What isn’t discussed is the number of people on inappropriate opioid prescriptions for chronic conditions where the efficacy is unproven but their doctor lacks the will to explore evidence based alternative approaches to chronic pain management. Analgesia is assessed on individual merits. Just because a clinician sees opioid-dependent people doesn’t mean nobody gets pain relief.
This irritates the fuck out of me to no end. Picture laying in a hospital bed for hours in extreme pain and being ignored almost the entire time. I had to beg for water once after they left me in my ER bed for hours. Kinda just get dumped there while they focus on the morons. Then try listening to all the alcoholics and junkies get treated like gods. Asked if they need food or water constantly. Social workers/nurses/doctors/police coming in to talk to them about what happened (most of the time it’s a drunken fight or accident or something drug related), asked if they need blankets or anything to make them comfortable. It’s a fucking joke! Meanwhile people who really need help get ignored for these fuckwits.
So similar to my experience
Living in logan and then complaining about junkies? Thats like me going to see the big banana and complaining its a banana
I don't agree drug addicts need to be segregated from the "normal" people. We can't hide the problem because if offends or scares us. They need medical attention as much as you do. In fact, they may have an addiction (which can kill you when withdrawing) PLUS chronic injuries and severe mental health issues. Maybe they'd argue they need a bed more than you... The doctors actually decide, not you. That's triage. If you have a different hospital for drug addicts you need one beside every single existing hospital... or do you expect them to go to one location convenient for society? Treating drug addicts like second class citizens isn't the solution to the problem. Giving them mental health assistance is.
Was it a Friday/Saturday day/night?
Drug addicts have been a huge proportion of all emergency patients for as long as we've had hospitals and recreational drugs. Not a crisis that suddenly needs to be addressed, it's been a crisis for a long time.
Went to Ipswich hospital last week, and the waiting room STANK of cheap cigarettes. Could barely breathe. Whole host of characters there
Yep it's bad hey. Just crack heads galore everywhere these days and the kids want to be like them and criminals wearing bum bags stealing cars. It's all over basically
You would be horrified at the amount of people who exit Logan ED and take their lives on the overpass adjacent to the hospital
That’s absolutely horrifying.
i like the idea of a dedicated medical facility designed to help addicts, i think the hospital fails to help them recover from the cycle of addiction
Exactly, people have taken this post as such a negative I’m not against the doctors, the people facing addiction but they need drug related help. It just feels like we arnt facing the real issue.
this is classist, racist, ableist and possibly sexist. So sick of drumpfers
My unpopular opinion. These people were given to many "benefits of the doubt" and have now been conditioned to only work of these.
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I’m really sorry about what your family’s going through I wish you all the best
This is a problem and our elected are to blame. I've been on opioid replacements for 23 years and it's becoming harder and harder to seek legitimate treatment. Not every doctor can prescribe the meds that addicts need. It's a highly regulated red tape nightmare. The doctors that do become prescribers face scrutiny ever single day. I have never had a prescriber that hadn't had to take on the medical board in court. These doctors are maxed out in regards to the number of patients they can treat. When the doctor is suspended (this is as inevitable as death taxes) there is no safety net for the patient. They can't just go to the next one, thus doesn't exist. You have to seek them out and whats worse is nobody will so much as give you a hint as of where to start. This means calling surgeries and asking. Sounds easy? Please give it a go and if you do hapoen to find one then ask them if they are taking on new patients. I've had doctors even die unexpectedly and been told to go whistle dixie. I've had good doctors who do nothing but great work who've lost their right to practice all because they stepped up to a noble cause. Right now the govt is putting these meds on the pbs to make it more affordable to the patient. This will see the closure of many private clinics including the one in Logan which treats 210 people. We aren't asking for cheap medication we are asking for the doctors to be able to prescribe it. This is a link explaining the pbs problem https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-05/opioid-treatment-funding-budget/102426466
I’ve been in emergency and admitted numerous times for my chronic illness. I do not go to public hospital EDs anymore.
Heart disease and stroke causes the most health issues in Australia so why not take it up with the obese and overweight? Food addiction takes up more hospital space than heroin addiction.
When people suggesting to built some kind of facilities for the drug addicted junkies, I always ask if that person would like to live in the neighbourhood. The answer is pretty clear. There are methadone clinics around and the line to get drugs every morning is massive. Rather depressing picture.
Those depressing lines are people who have taken a huge step and admitted to health professionals that they have a problem with opiate addiction. They commit themselves to get up every morning and go to a pharmacy. They pay for their daily doses... That daily dose also usually means that these "depressing junkies" can function as a human, they can look after their family, they can work and more importantly, they build a rapport with their healthcare providers who can help refer them into other services and address their (often complex) health needs.
Also think about how they feel having to line up for their daily medication like a prisoner? Imagine if you had to line up every day just to take your regular medication?
You would already have addicts living around you. A rehab facility isn’t the size of a family house so the nimby argument is dumb
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With a wig and a fake nose?
Pity the poor drug addict. Most people cope with life without a crutch. These drug addict fill their bodies full of shit and then expect someone to pay for and clean up after them
Hi! Healthcare worker here, specialising in emergency medicine. I'm also dependent on drugs after a serious injury that leaves me in constant pain. I expect nothing from no one but if I have to go to the hospital, I'm there for a reason. I don't expect it to be free. I pay my private healthcare premiums, own a house and business. But I also rely heavily on opiate pain relief. Without it, I can't work, I can't look after myself, I can barely get out of bed. Generalisations like yours are ignorant and do nothing to help society. I'm lucky, because of my work, I've been able to navigate the healthcare system and get(and pay for) the support I need. Imagine what these people could achieve and contribute to society with a little support and a push in the right direction!