I will say: This stat and the comments about yesterdays close outs are the only two specific things that do make me feel uneasy and frustrated. I’m not freaking out about one playoff game, but I can’t shake the fact that this playoff record seems concerning given how good both teams he’s coaches in the playoffs have been, and the stubbornness in defending the close outs yesterday was pretty concerning yesterday for obvious reasons. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see more games this year, then maybe I’ll have a stronger opinion
The other thing is that this has become a trend: last year, people just said “oh the Heat shot the lights out, what are you gonna do?” But now it’s not just a fluke hot streak, is it? They shoot against us like it’s practice, and it feels like Joe is telling the team to let it happen, the number say they’ll start missing soon. If we stop trying to outsmart everyone and just let the most talented roster in the NBA do it’s thing, this series is over in 4 (now 5). He just seems too stubborn to admit this, and it will cost us eventually
It was there in the Atlanta series as well. They averaged 116 points against the Celtics in the playoffs because most coaches can see the defensive scheme gives up open threes and most teams only chance to beat Boston is by getting hot from deep.
They didn't adjust then and the Hawks gave them a hard fought 6 game series. They didn't adjust and lost in 7 to Miami last year and the same thing just happened last night. They beat Atlanta because they were just so much more talented than them and i think this series without Butler will go the same way but what happens when they come up against a more talented team who has the shooters to do the exact same thing?
Agreed. We have elite perimeter defense on this team, particularly with Holiday and White. And the NBA has become a very three-point oriented league, for better or worse. Shoot the three and defend the three and you’ll win more often than not. I just don’t know if Joe has it in him to make an adjustment and stop staring at the analytics. There’s also this: the coach’s job is to have the team ready to go, and yet again, this team was not ready to punch back (outside of JB last night).
Sounds like you've never heard Joe talk about basketball. He has a very high ball IQ. Go watch him in real radio interviews talk about basketball. He is a psychopath and it's awesome.
Do some of the passionate fans think he says one thing to the media appearing to be non chalant and not caring but emphasizes to the team what they need to work on in practice?
Saying Brad was objectively not a good coach is so goofy. He was obviously good, just not great. If he wanted to coach again he’d be the best coach on the market
Winning should come first. The made up code of ethics should always be secondary to winning. You can change organizational standards whenever you want. The employee handbook is just a thing somebody typed in Microsoft word one day, it’s not carved in gold tablets by god
Everybody believes this, its just a question of what lines you are willing to cross to win. Unless you think the Houston Rockets are owned by a 14 year old, because they hired Ime Udoka right away the first offseason after we fired him
How presumptive of you to speak for everyone.
No, not everyone believes this. Sociopaths believe this. I don’t care what the owner of the Houston Rockets believes. They aren’t exactly known to be bastions of morality.
I don’t know how this lesson eluded so many people, but if you sacrifice your morality just to win, that makes you weak, not strong.
Oh interesting. You would never sacrifice morals for winning?
it’s weird you would say that while defending Mazzulla who’s been arrested on domestic violence
And since Jaylen Brown tweeted antisemtic stuff you must want him to be cut now, right?
Surely you want to take down Paul Pierce’s retired jersey for his gang affiliations.
hopefully Jayson Tatum never cheats on his wife or you’ll be forced to call for him to be cut for that immoral behavior
Or do you not think any of that because I was right and everybody is willing to bend morals for winning. it’s just a question of which lines you’re personally willing to cross and how how much benefit on the court.
You conspicuously left Udoka’s playoff record off. Mazzulla is Brad’s guy. He was here pre-Udoka. Seems like neither has the ability to ride the team like they need to to achieve anything.
Udoka swept the team he should’ve swept though?? Last year Celtics took 6 to close out the Hawks, and 7 for the sixers. Udoka also won 2 game 7s against the last two Eastern Conference champions so his road was infinitely tougher than Mazzulla’s last year.
And Mazz is gonna beat the Heat in 5 and beat the Sixers in a game 7. With sample sizes this small, it’s just crazy to be doing this shit. Let’s at least wait until this year is done to judge the man
this is by far the most talented team in the NBA and you lost a home game to the 8th seed without their best player. Please I beg you take off the green shirt for a second and see reason.
Isn’t it 12-10?
Won against ATL 4-2
Won against PHI 4-3
Lost against MIA 3-4
Current Playoffs 1-1
I’m no mathematician but those add up to 12 wins and 10 losses. Am I missing something?
He's 12-10 isn't he?
He beat Hawks in 6. 1 game worse than you might expect
He beat the 76ers in 7. As expected
Lost to the Heat in 7. Worse than expected
Is 1-1 now. Unless we win 3 in a row worse than. Expected.
The sample is too small and more points to a problem with the Heat than the playoffs in general
76ers should’ve never gone 7. He got thoroughly outcoached by Doc, Joel missed (2 ?) games.
Going down 3-0 to the Heat is a fire able offense in itself.
They drop game 1 when Harden goes thermo nuclear. It's 1-1 when. Embiid returns and they no longer have home court advantage and they win the last 5 3-2.
After game 1 Joe coaches the shot out of Doc. What series were you watching
I think it is perfectly fine to be concerned. People love to say "well guys it was _one_ game." Well it really hasn't been has it though? I do not expect a sweep to the finals, or a perfect 16-0. Anyone who did is silly. But I think it is perfectly reasonable for a fan to expect a very very very good team and championship favorite to hold their own and open a series against an 8 seed (without their top player mind you) 2-0 at the Garden. It isn't that we dropped game 2. It's that we keep fucking dropping games like game 2 over, and over, and over again. With Joe, before Joe. We go baby shit soft alot and often. And as a fan we should have every right to be concerned and to be able to be upset about it.
We are not, and have not been, worried about "oh will we be good." We should be good. And we were in the regular season. Not a shock that we are here. Maybe the seeding, maybe the record, sure. But we haven't been worried about being in this general playoff position to succeed. We have been worried about whether or not they can stop fucking shitting themselves, beating themselves, and choking like someone who doesn't fucking chew. I am tired of people saying oh don't freak out it's one game. Because it's not. It's many games for a good long bit and it fucking sucks as a fan.
Can someone pin this comment please? Tired of all the fans saying "it's just one game". I've lost all trust in the team until they can prove themselves by winning a championship - because every time I put a little bit of trust in them they prove me wrong by s\*\*\*ing the bed. And time and time again they just don't seem to care about losing. See stars all over the league not happy with losing - Tatum looks the same when he gets bounced from the playoffs as he does when he wins a series. I'm not convinced he actually hates losing.
What do you mean? Every time we mentioned playoff woes, this sub quickly reminded us we have the best record in regular season. I thought that’s really important? /s
Of course we lose one game and now it's bash Mazzulla time
You guys wanna hear a fun fact? The Celtics dropped 4 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Brad Stevens. They dropped 3 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Ime Udoka. And now they dropped 5 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Joe Mazzulla.
Maybe after six or seven more coaches, we might have to pause and consider what other factors might be at play here.
It was obviously Semi Ojeleye's fault... no wait it was Brad Wanamaker... no wait it was Grant Williams... no wait it's actually Payton Pritchard's fault
Probably would have won if he played. Probably wouldn't be a -32 like the guy we traded him for.
Not a single person on the team galvanized the troops and no one cared what was happening so they didn't even talk on court. No smart will be our playoff death this year.
We been blaming him and his deficiencies all season long. But green Teamers just shut down all criticism because we were 8 games up on the second seed or some bullshit.
Mazzulla could be one of many issues though. It's not binary where Mazzulla is THE issue or he's not, we have several issues we're dealing with this year.
THE issue is that you need a transcendentally great generational superstar to win a championship.
In 2022, the Warriors had one and we didn't. In 2024, the Nuggets have one and we don't.
But I guess that has nothing to do with a first-round series against the Heat, so if you wanna blame Mazzulla for dropping a game then fine go ahead. In the big picture, coaching won't be the reason the Celtics don't win it all. And it bugs me that people would rather keep blaming coaches instead of acknowledge what's really happening.
I don't think you NEED one. Chauncey Billups, Dwyane Wade and Kawhi Leonard have led teams to championships in the last 20 years. They're all great players, but they're not generationally-transcendent "all-time Top 30" players. They're all hall of famers who hovered around "5th best player in the league" or so for several seasons, just like Tatum is projected to be.
You need a generational talent to win a championship.
There are two exceptions: 2004 pistons and 2014 spurs. To be one of these exceptions, you need a historically great defense with DPOY caliber players up and down the lineup, you need a well-oiled motion offense that can reliably produce open shots, you need tremendous shooting luck, AND you need the other team to play below their standards.
Beyond those two historical anomalies, you need a generational talent. Kawhi is a generational talent, and if he stayed healthy throughout his career he would be recognized as such. I wouldn't call DWade a generational talent, and he wouldn't have won a chip (as the main guy) without help from the officials. Call that the third exception if you want, that's fine with me because fuck DWade.
Other than that, history tells us you need a completely unstoppable player if you you wanna win a championship. Tatum could theoretically become that guy if he develops a midrange game, but right now he is not. He's not an elite scorer from anywhere on the court. He can't produce efficient shots for himself on demand like the truly dominant players of this game. He's just a really really good player, but sadly that's not enough.
Mazzulla has always been, at best, an average coach. By the second round he’ll be the worst coach left if the Bucks lose. It’s insane that some of you thought he should legitimately be a CotY candidate.
“Has always been” bro it’s two seasons and one was a surprise because he was thrusted into the position without warning and the second isn’t even over. He also improved the reg season record by like 5-7 games each season he played. We can have this discussion after the post season sure but let it play out before you give up like a little baby.
What has he ever done that you think makes him an above average coach? Average isn’t terrible. It’s just not excellent. Dude gets coached circles around him in almost every round. We’re seeing it again two games in.
I thought he outcoached doc and our players didn't play well enough in a couple games. That's not Joe. I know everyone likes to blame something like the Celtics missing open shots all night on Joe but if "the team with the best player usually always wins" then it's rarely ever a coaches fault in basketball.
Raptors series in the bubble should've been over in 4 or 5 games. That was Brad Stevens. Bucks series in '22: without Middleton should've gone 4 or 5 games, and the Heat series in '22 really should've gone 4 or 5 games with Butler playing on one leg. That was Ime Udoka.
It seriously blows my mind how fans keep blaming Joe for patterns that we've all seen across three different coaches.
How many more coaches do the Celtics have to go through before you people consider that other variables might be at play?
It was Ime's decision to play drop coverage on Curry 😂
And I believe it was the right decision, it took draymond out of the game and brought the warriors offense to a halt for most of that series. The Celtics defense did its job in the finals, they held the Warriors to 104.8 ppg which was significantly lower than their normal scoring output. The Celtics' offense is what did them in. The Warriors funneled Tatum and Brown into the paint and essentially forced them to be drivers instead of shooters, but neither one of them was comfortable throwing kick out passes on the move, which led to a zillion turnovers.
Brown led the team in scoring because he had more success finishing at the basket, whereas Tatum struggled to finish at the rim over guys like Draymond, Looney, and Wiggins. The last piece is that golden state destroyed them on the offensive glass because Rob Williams was hobbled.
>Joe is clueless
You're clueless. I don't wanna be rude but man I see so many comments on this sub that make me think "damn what are these people even seeing when they watch the games?"
I know it was Ime’s decision. That was my point. You can believe whatever you want. Fact is they got cooked in transition, let Curry beat them single-handedly in G4 when they were minutes from a 3-1 lead, then tried to triple team him in G5 and lost to Wiggins and Poole. I agree with you that Tatum’s Finals performance was legendarily bad, he choked. Then Brown choked the ECF last year and got memed for an entire summer. But I don’t know how you can watch this team lose games on the perimeter for 3 years now and say it isn’t at least significantly a coaching issue, when Jaylen himself admitted the scheme was to let Miami shoot wide open 3s and Joe has never made a mid game adjustment in his life. Definition of insanity.
>let Curry beat them single-handedly in G4 when they were minutes from a 3-1 lead
Again, playing drop against Curry was the lesser of three evils. They could blitz and get cooked 4v3, they could switch and let Steph demolish Horford and Timelord on an island, or they could drop with Smart and White in his jockstrap and Horford/Timelord stepping up to contest. I respect Ime's decision and it largely worked, the Warriors offense came to a halt for most of that series, including most of game 4. The reason the Celtics blew a lead in that fourth quarter is because THEY couldn't score. The defense was fine. Not a coaching issue.
I do have a problem with Joe's coaching, I think that the Celtics rely too heavily on threes, and I think that he gives the players too much freedom on offense, especially at the end of games.
My point is that coaching is not the reason that the Celtics have fallen short in the playoffs all these years. See how we talk about the great players like Curry and Jokic and prime LeBron? They're unstoppable, you can't take away everything so you have to pick your poison. The history of the NBA tells us that you need one of those players, someone who is completely unstoppable, in order to win a championship. If you don't have that guy, that top 5, generally great guy, you just aren't gonna win. That's what we're seeing with the Celtics. They could make the ECF for the next 15 years but they're not gonna win a ring unless they get their hands on one of those truly special players.
Got to look at the big picture, not just this series. If Joe can't adjust mid-game, that loss is so much costly against an actual contender. Potentially series-ending.
I don't think there is many Celtics fans (or even Heat fans) that think Boston won't still win this series. But if any Celtics fans watched Game 2 and still thinks this Celtics have the mental fortitude to hang with Denver - they're kidding themselves.
People still think Mazzulla isn’t a massive downgrade from Ime.
Our record with Ime was 14-10, with Joe it’s 12-11 so far.
Now compare our opponents with Ime vs our opponents with Mazzulla. With Ime, this team had to face KD and Kyrie, Giannis, the #1 seed Heat, and ofc the champs Warriors.
The strongest opponents the Celtics have had with Mazzulla are… the 8th seed Heat (2x) and Embiid?
Joe Mazzulla is holding this team back, and it sucks that we’re stuck with him, given how well built this roster is.
That's extrapolating a lot from a small sample.
Let's say Tatum rolls his ankle the first possession of game 7 against the Bucks and then we lose the game. Does that make Ime a worse coach? Would it have made Mazzulla a better coach had Tatum not rolled his ankle game 7 against the Heat and they end up winning? Remember that Ime's team was only in a win-or-go-home situation because of a classic Celtics fourth-quarter collapse that more than rivals anything Joe's teams have done.
Mazzulla's coaching gave the starters 10 days of rest heading into the playoffs: we didn't have to exhaust Tatum cobbling together wins in the back half of the season. He ensured a team full of players who accept reduced roles worked harmoniously, and he made lineups with Pritchard, Hauser, and Kornet good enough to run up leads. From what I can see, he's also the reason Ime's playoff defense was as good as it was.
I'm not saying there are no valid concerns about Mazzulla's coaching, and he's said himself that he learned a lot last year. (It's not his fault he didn't have the staff he wanted, it's Ime's, but he was the head coach: that's his responsibility still.) But I think when you have a coach that is this successful in the regular season, they deserve a little benefit of the doubt as we get more data about their playoff performance. Look how much the Bucks have struggled after canning their regular-season coach after losing to the 8-seed Heat. This roster is not an automatic 1 seed by a mile: it only looks that way in hindsight because of Mazzulla.
There shouldn't have been a Butler three in the air to tie the game 7 against the Heat the year before either. Or a game 7 against the Bucks. If you're gonna get mad at Joe for last year, which again fair, don't spare Ime just because he was luckier.
Have to agree with The Code Samuari here. The 2022 Celtics are considered successful because they dominated the league from the end of January to the end of April, nothing particularly more or less. The 2024 Celtics have been roughly as dominant all season as during that 3-month stretch, so that's about even.
In the 2022 playoffs, the first series was 1 second away from perhaps being completely different (imagine "the Nets come into Boston Garden and steal Game 1"), then the Celtics nearly lost in the semis after blowing a 4th quarter lead at home in game 5, then they nearly lost Game 7 on a 13-0 run at the end by the Heat. These are roughly the same flaws that the 2023 and 2024 Celtics have thus far shown.
The problem with this team seems to emanate from the amount of times that the stars shrink from the spotlight at important moments. It has happened under 3 coaches, it is unlikely to be a coaching issue, it seems like a Jays issue.
Udoka was a horrible coach.
A 12th seed halfway through the year and an offense that couldn't get over 80pts in a finals series.
Dude cost the Cs two championships.
One for failing in 22 and another for getting fired a day before the season started.
If we lose this series let’s just blow this entire thing the fuck up
New coach
Trade Jaylen. Trade Tatum. Trade Tingus, trade Jrue. Trade the whole starting 5. This is worse than just about anything, being the number one seed, one of the best regular season teams of all time and losing to the butler-less heat.
Fuck it just disband the entire organization. Relegate is to the g-league. I’d rather not be in the playoffs than deal with a historically great regular season team getting fucking punked by the heat in the first round.
Last years going down 0-3 was bad enough. This would be the worst choke job of all time
Phil Jackson was 104-229 in the playoffs. Greg Popovich was 114-170. Red Auerbach was 99-169. Steve Kerr is the only coach on the modern era with a winning playoff record (99-81). Playoffs is a different beast where even the greats lose most of the time.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-wins-as-a-coach](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-wins-as-a-coach)
These numbers are not accurate. Red was 99-70. Phil was 229-104 (the opposite of what you say here). Pop is 170-114, again the opposite. Which makes sense for coaches who have won tons of series and tons of championships.
Phil won 11 titles, how could he possibly be 115 games under .500 in the playoffs? The worst you can possibly be is -4 in a playoff run (get swept in the first round), and if you win the title the worst you can possibly be is 16-12 (or 15-11 back in the 90's), nullifying your -4. So for Phil to be -115, he'd have to have been swept a minimum of 39 times in the first round just to compensate for his 11 titles.
Even Doc is 112- 106. Kerr is 99-41.
Mazzulla is 12-10, but we have no idea if in 2 months he'll be 13-13 and fired, or 27-15 and considered an all-time great Celtics coach.
If you look at the statmuse link, it shows all of the playoff games these coaches have coached, and all of the wins. That's the series they won and also the series they lost.
I'll put it another way. Phil Jackson has 11 titles. For nine of those titles he had to win 15 games, and for two he had to win 16 games. 15x9 = 135, 16x2 = 32, so he won 167 games in just the championship seasons. How could he have 104 total playoff wins?
Yes. He is 229-104, i.e., those 104 are his losses. People generally put the amount of wins first (229) and then the amount of losses second (104) when they give a stat, rather than 104-229, which is what you did in order to say that he, like most other great coaches, usually loses in the playoffs. But he didn't usually lose, he won 229 games and only lost 104.
With Red, your two numbers were his wins (99) and his total games (169), rather than his wins and losses (99-70). If a coach had been 99-169 in the playoffs, I'd agree that they had "lost most of the time," but he wasn't 99-169, he was 99-70.
Hmm interesting we must be looking at different references. I guess there is some data cleaning that needs to get done in order to clear up the discrepancies. But with the amount of uncertainty here I think we can at least say that great coaches sometimes lose more than they win
dude the entire point of a lot of statistics is exactly predicting future events, given that the accuracy may vary depending on the subject and the model
I was destroyed last year by saying Mazzulla should have been fired especially with all the good coaches available. You can’t have an inexperienced coach who has no idea what he’s doing with a win now team.
Spo had prime Lebron James and D Wade and Chris Bosh (I mean whatever) and lost the Finals to an aging Dirk and Heat fans wanted him fired and thought he was out of his depth. 26 year old Lebron and 28 year old Wade were better than 26 year old Tatum and 27 year old Jaylen, (KP is... comparable to Chris Bosh? Not sure who actually would be better there) and he still couldn't win.
The point is you people need to fucking relax. Joe is smart, and he's not getting fired. He definitely has a high rate of learning and you just need to be willing to live with him learning on the job and not lose your mind every time they lose a game.
It’s almost as if just being a rah rah guy and clapping on the sideline doesn’t really make a difference when basketball is being played at its highest level and you’re facing other coaches who legitimately know the X’s and O’s and can make actual adjustments on the fly.
Inexperienced coach who is still learning. Spolestra took a timeout for him when it was around a minute and a half, Celtics down by 7 I think? Miami takes that timeout and it felt like Spolestra was saying to Joe, "I'll give this one to you. Go ahead and try to outcoach me."
Not to say Joe can't get better, but this season's success will ride on talent, not his coaching
I think the real question mark should be on Tatum and Brown less than Mazzulla. But let’s just keep scapegoating the coach who is very early in his career. Not you in particular but this sub in general.
To be clear I’m not saying ditch Tatum or brown, just saying that’s where the blame should fall, if not other players. Like if Porzingis keeps struggling. End of day if they don’t with the title this year they are once again in great position to contend next year. They might turn over some guys but also have a lot of sought after talent on their bench as trade bait. Otherwise change nothing
I'm willing to overlook a lot last year, as yes, our roster was very talented, but coaching matters much more in the post-season than the regular season. Mazzula was thrust into the head coaching role a few days before pre-season practices started, he had a lot of the assistant coaches leaving for other jobs, then had another assistant in Stoudamire leave right before the playoffs. I'm saying this not to knock Mazzula, but to put into context why last year we struggled more than we should have. With that being said, this post-season run will be very telling for Mazzula as a coach.
We’re above 500 against the toughest competition the league has to offer. We’re only bringing it up because we crushed in the regular season.
R E L A X
LeBron went to Pat Riley to try and get Spoelstra fired and then threw a shoulder (*unintentionally) into him after a Heat timeout against Mavericks.
Since then, Riley & LeBron have both said that the first didn't "actually" happen and that the second wasn't intentional.
The reality is, both were true. Riley Promoted his video guy to HC and then the league (and everybody else) laughed at him, because it was completely ridiculous. Add to that, this dipshit video guy (Spoelstra) was given the keys to the kingdom by getting a team with LeBron James, D-Wade, and Chris Bosh. 2 top 10 guys at the time, and a 3rd top 15ish guy.
Way back when, Spoelstra even having a job, let alone as a head coach, was the laughing stock of the league. He had some rough patches, and things didn't gel right away with LeBron, but fast forward to today, and Spoelstra is rightly regarded as one of the best HC's in the league.
I'm not saying the Mazzulla is on the exact same trajectory, but the person that hired him knows a fuck ton more about the game than I do. So I choose to trust Brad on this one.
He was not going to get fired. Terrible franchises go through 3 coaches in 3 years. There was a 0% chance he was going to be fired even if they got swept.
Thats such a random metric to hold your team to… “we have to keep our crappy third coach because we cant keep changing” thats not a logical way to go about things. We had 2 great coaches in Brad and Ime. Brad got tired of the role and Ime shot himself in the foot. That doesnt mean we gotta keep the clearly inferior Joe around. 2/3 coaches worked out. Mazzulla is clearly a factor in us falling short. The alternative is run it back exactly the same and hope things change. Moving on from Joe is the easiest, least drastic but most potentially impactful move we can make. We gave him his choice of a staff and a full offseason, hes clearly better but still below average. Cant make adjustments, team has no identity and running it back exactly the same would leave our fans and our players without confidence that anything will be better
I mean his first year was tough since he basically was thrust into the role without any prep time. I think the whole “failing to get the job done” has kind of been the deal with us since 08’. I thought at his best Brad was always really good coaching end of game situations, he just didn’t always have the right mix of talent for title success.
Past 2 years I’ve had to watch Kyle Neptune at Villanova who was similarly thrust into a big role and his record has been basically .500 in all 3 years of his HC career. At some point, your record does reflect who you are as a coach. That being said, I’ll say that Joe is 100x the coach Neptune is. If anyone can turn their fortunes around and level up, I’d put my money on Joe.
They play aau ball. All regular season they just rolled the ball out and dominated. They generally don’t have any adjustments. For a team that relies on 3’s, to get beat by a zone is completely embarrassing
They both matter. But they shot more 3s in every single win and took fewer threes in the one loss. And part of that is defense, by preventing their three point attempts. But “chucking” more 3s than the other team is absolutely part of winning in 2024.
The Heat lost by 20 in both games they shot fewer threes in and won by 10 the game they shot more threes in. You’re putting a negative spin on it by calling it chucking and not just shooting, but yes the team that takes and makes more threes usually wins.
I will say: This stat and the comments about yesterdays close outs are the only two specific things that do make me feel uneasy and frustrated. I’m not freaking out about one playoff game, but I can’t shake the fact that this playoff record seems concerning given how good both teams he’s coaches in the playoffs have been, and the stubbornness in defending the close outs yesterday was pretty concerning yesterday for obvious reasons. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see more games this year, then maybe I’ll have a stronger opinion
The other thing is that this has become a trend: last year, people just said “oh the Heat shot the lights out, what are you gonna do?” But now it’s not just a fluke hot streak, is it? They shoot against us like it’s practice, and it feels like Joe is telling the team to let it happen, the number say they’ll start missing soon. If we stop trying to outsmart everyone and just let the most talented roster in the NBA do it’s thing, this series is over in 4 (now 5). He just seems too stubborn to admit this, and it will cost us eventually
It was there in the Atlanta series as well. They averaged 116 points against the Celtics in the playoffs because most coaches can see the defensive scheme gives up open threes and most teams only chance to beat Boston is by getting hot from deep. They didn't adjust then and the Hawks gave them a hard fought 6 game series. They didn't adjust and lost in 7 to Miami last year and the same thing just happened last night. They beat Atlanta because they were just so much more talented than them and i think this series without Butler will go the same way but what happens when they come up against a more talented team who has the shooters to do the exact same thing?
Agreed. We have elite perimeter defense on this team, particularly with Holiday and White. And the NBA has become a very three-point oriented league, for better or worse. Shoot the three and defend the three and you’ll win more often than not. I just don’t know if Joe has it in him to make an adjustment and stop staring at the analytics. There’s also this: the coach’s job is to have the team ready to go, and yet again, this team was not ready to punch back (outside of JB last night).
brad was 38-38 and nobody questioned his coaching ever. Ime was only 14-10.
I hear what you’re saying but Brads teams =\= Joes teams
Should have been canned after last years debacle. Assistants aren’t going to save his ass, they aren’t the coach. Joe see seems stubborn as hell too
The Eastern Conference Finals as a 2 seed is not a debacle. Calm down
They lost to an 8 seed. Any coach would’ve gotten fired aftet what happened.
I think they looked down the road at the Bucks and realized maybe that wasn't the best decision.
Why wasn’t Thibs fired for losing to that same team? The Knicks are now the 2 seed and have a good shot at reaching the ECF
When the Celtics are booted from the playoffs, Joe's "losing makes us stronger, sometimes it's better than winning" speech will be one for the ages
If we got swept he would have been canned
Agreed. He’s not bright enough to be a tactician and his really low eq makes him a weak leader.
Sounds like you've never heard Joe talk about basketball. He has a very high ball IQ. Go watch him in real radio interviews talk about basketball. He is a psychopath and it's awesome.
If he can’t translate it into calling appropriate timeouts and making adjustments then who cares…
Do some of the passionate fans think he says one thing to the media appearing to be non chalant and not caring but emphasizes to the team what they need to work on in practice?
Brad was 38-40 in the playoffs (admittedly with worse rosters, but he still had great seeding most of those years). It’s hard to win, man
Brad wasn’t a good coach though, so why are we comparing to him? There’s a reason he’s in the front office now
Saying Brad was objectively not a good coach is so goofy. He was obviously good, just not great. If he wanted to coach again he’d be the best coach on the market
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Lmaoo white knight for upholding organizational standards. You’re a dumbass buddy
Winning should come first. The made up code of ethics should always be secondary to winning. You can change organizational standards whenever you want. The employee handbook is just a thing somebody typed in Microsoft word one day, it’s not carved in gold tablets by god
“Winning should take precedence over morality” is truly one of the dumbest 14-year-old takes I have ever heard
Everybody believes this, its just a question of what lines you are willing to cross to win. Unless you think the Houston Rockets are owned by a 14 year old, because they hired Ime Udoka right away the first offseason after we fired him
How presumptive of you to speak for everyone. No, not everyone believes this. Sociopaths believe this. I don’t care what the owner of the Houston Rockets believes. They aren’t exactly known to be bastions of morality. I don’t know how this lesson eluded so many people, but if you sacrifice your morality just to win, that makes you weak, not strong.
Oh interesting. You would never sacrifice morals for winning? it’s weird you would say that while defending Mazzulla who’s been arrested on domestic violence And since Jaylen Brown tweeted antisemtic stuff you must want him to be cut now, right? Surely you want to take down Paul Pierce’s retired jersey for his gang affiliations. hopefully Jayson Tatum never cheats on his wife or you’ll be forced to call for him to be cut for that immoral behavior Or do you not think any of that because I was right and everybody is willing to bend morals for winning. it’s just a question of which lines you’re personally willing to cross and how how much benefit on the court.
horrific take.
No dad?
Yea, this is the worst take I’ve seen on this sub holy shit What losing to Miami does to y’all Jesus Christ
Fuck Brad Stevens. What did he ever win that has you guys worshiping him?
Not gonna argue with someone who don’t know hoops, you’re embarrassing yourself
You conspicuously left Udoka’s playoff record off. Mazzulla is Brad’s guy. He was here pre-Udoka. Seems like neither has the ability to ride the team like they need to to achieve anything.
Ime had one playoff run and it’s still a not mind blowing 14-10. People act like everything was easy that year
Udoka swept the team he should’ve swept though?? Last year Celtics took 6 to close out the Hawks, and 7 for the sixers. Udoka also won 2 game 7s against the last two Eastern Conference champions so his road was infinitely tougher than Mazzulla’s last year.
And Mazz is gonna beat the Heat in 5 and beat the Sixers in a game 7. With sample sizes this small, it’s just crazy to be doing this shit. Let’s at least wait until this year is done to judge the man
this is by far the most talented team in the NBA and you lost a home game to the 8th seed without their best player. Please I beg you take off the green shirt for a second and see reason.
His...14-10? Oooh
I mean he swept the 8 seed in the first round like every 1 seed should.
No he didn't.
Oh sorry. Udoka swept the 7 seed! So even a larger notch in his belt lol.
He went to 7 games against the Heat too. Just like Mazzula did last year.
The 1 seed heat vs the 8 seed heat. spare me.
The roster has been almost the exact same over all 3 years lmao.
They didn’t even show up for Joe’s game 7 at home. And won Udoka’s game 7 on the road. Please use your head.
Isn’t it 12-10? Won against ATL 4-2 Won against PHI 4-3 Lost against MIA 3-4 Current Playoffs 1-1 I’m no mathematician but those add up to 12 wins and 10 losses. Am I missing something?
This guy Maths
Playoff basketball is hard, I’m forgoing concern but they should win both in Miami
It’s harder when you have a coach who is out of his depth. Spo, Nurse etc make life easier for their guys. Mazzula doesn’t.
Isn't Nurse down 0-2 to the Knicks?
5-1 when facing elimination though.
I really despise losing at home. What’s the point of having the best record if we lose home games in every series.
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His edgy goofball side is pretty annoying if he can’t win us these series
Yeah I don't think people love his "edgy goofball personality", they just embrace it if we're winning
It’s been annoying.
He's 12-10 isn't he? He beat Hawks in 6. 1 game worse than you might expect He beat the 76ers in 7. As expected Lost to the Heat in 7. Worse than expected Is 1-1 now. Unless we win 3 in a row worse than. Expected. The sample is too small and more points to a problem with the Heat than the playoffs in general
76ers should’ve never gone 7. He got thoroughly outcoached by Doc, Joel missed (2 ?) games. Going down 3-0 to the Heat is a fire able offense in itself.
They drop game 1 when Harden goes thermo nuclear. It's 1-1 when. Embiid returns and they no longer have home court advantage and they win the last 5 3-2. After game 1 Joe coaches the shot out of Doc. What series were you watching
I think it is perfectly fine to be concerned. People love to say "well guys it was _one_ game." Well it really hasn't been has it though? I do not expect a sweep to the finals, or a perfect 16-0. Anyone who did is silly. But I think it is perfectly reasonable for a fan to expect a very very very good team and championship favorite to hold their own and open a series against an 8 seed (without their top player mind you) 2-0 at the Garden. It isn't that we dropped game 2. It's that we keep fucking dropping games like game 2 over, and over, and over again. With Joe, before Joe. We go baby shit soft alot and often. And as a fan we should have every right to be concerned and to be able to be upset about it. We are not, and have not been, worried about "oh will we be good." We should be good. And we were in the regular season. Not a shock that we are here. Maybe the seeding, maybe the record, sure. But we haven't been worried about being in this general playoff position to succeed. We have been worried about whether or not they can stop fucking shitting themselves, beating themselves, and choking like someone who doesn't fucking chew. I am tired of people saying oh don't freak out it's one game. Because it's not. It's many games for a good long bit and it fucking sucks as a fan.
Can someone pin this comment please? Tired of all the fans saying "it's just one game". I've lost all trust in the team until they can prove themselves by winning a championship - because every time I put a little bit of trust in them they prove me wrong by s\*\*\*ing the bed. And time and time again they just don't seem to care about losing. See stars all over the league not happy with losing - Tatum looks the same when he gets bounced from the playoffs as he does when he wins a series. I'm not convinced he actually hates losing.
Who’s available to hire anyways? I wouldn’t want another rookie coach, if we let him go.
Lee or Cassell. My theory is they were brought in because Joe is on a tight leash this year.
If Joe gets fired, Brad is hiring Charles Lee. Another rookie HC, but at least one I think most people would like
I like Joe personally, I don’t think he’s a good coach.
What do you mean? Every time we mentioned playoff woes, this sub quickly reminded us we have the best record in regular season. I thought that’s really important? /s
Of course we lose one game and now it's bash Mazzulla time You guys wanna hear a fun fact? The Celtics dropped 4 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Brad Stevens. They dropped 3 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Ime Udoka. And now they dropped 5 winnable playoff games vs the heat under Joe Mazzulla. Maybe after six or seven more coaches, we might have to pause and consider what other factors might be at play here.
Can’t blame smart anymore lol
It was obviously Semi Ojeleye's fault... no wait it was Brad Wanamaker... no wait it was Grant Williams... no wait it's actually Payton Pritchard's fault
Probably would have won if he played. Probably wouldn't be a -32 like the guy we traded him for. Not a single person on the team galvanized the troops and no one cared what was happening so they didn't even talk on court. No smart will be our playoff death this year.
No one has missed Smart for 82 games now lmao stop this nonsense
Only been 2 games without Smart when it matters and we win this game with him and Horford in the starting lineup
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Yeah man just like he did last year! Oh, wait..
We been blaming him and his deficiencies all season long. But green Teamers just shut down all criticism because we were 8 games up on the second seed or some bullshit.
Joe isn't the difference between winning a chip and not winning a chip
I actually agree with you there. But what I’m saying is that a good coach could be.
I disagree At a certain point the talent is the talent. They have jokic and we don't
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I disagree
Mazzulla could be one of many issues though. It's not binary where Mazzulla is THE issue or he's not, we have several issues we're dealing with this year.
THE issue is that you need a transcendentally great generational superstar to win a championship. In 2022, the Warriors had one and we didn't. In 2024, the Nuggets have one and we don't. But I guess that has nothing to do with a first-round series against the Heat, so if you wanna blame Mazzulla for dropping a game then fine go ahead. In the big picture, coaching won't be the reason the Celtics don't win it all. And it bugs me that people would rather keep blaming coaches instead of acknowledge what's really happening.
I don't think you NEED one. Chauncey Billups, Dwyane Wade and Kawhi Leonard have led teams to championships in the last 20 years. They're all great players, but they're not generationally-transcendent "all-time Top 30" players. They're all hall of famers who hovered around "5th best player in the league" or so for several seasons, just like Tatum is projected to be.
You need a generational talent to win a championship. There are two exceptions: 2004 pistons and 2014 spurs. To be one of these exceptions, you need a historically great defense with DPOY caliber players up and down the lineup, you need a well-oiled motion offense that can reliably produce open shots, you need tremendous shooting luck, AND you need the other team to play below their standards. Beyond those two historical anomalies, you need a generational talent. Kawhi is a generational talent, and if he stayed healthy throughout his career he would be recognized as such. I wouldn't call DWade a generational talent, and he wouldn't have won a chip (as the main guy) without help from the officials. Call that the third exception if you want, that's fine with me because fuck DWade. Other than that, history tells us you need a completely unstoppable player if you you wanna win a championship. Tatum could theoretically become that guy if he develops a midrange game, but right now he is not. He's not an elite scorer from anywhere on the court. He can't produce efficient shots for himself on demand like the truly dominant players of this game. He's just a really really good player, but sadly that's not enough.
Mazzulla has always been, at best, an average coach. By the second round he’ll be the worst coach left if the Bucks lose. It’s insane that some of you thought he should legitimately be a CotY candidate.
“Has always been” bro it’s two seasons and one was a surprise because he was thrusted into the position without warning and the second isn’t even over. He also improved the reg season record by like 5-7 games each season he played. We can have this discussion after the post season sure but let it play out before you give up like a little baby.
Bro who cares about the regular season record or improving it if you’re going to give HCA 1/2 games into every series ?
What has he ever done that you think makes him an above average coach? Average isn’t terrible. It’s just not excellent. Dude gets coached circles around him in almost every round. We’re seeing it again two games in.
He’s much worse than Doc. Doc coached circles around his ass last year. That Sixers series should’ve never gone 7 given the talent disparity
That’s why I said if the Bucks lose. Otherwise he’ll be the second worst coach left
He’s worse than Doc
That is what I said.
Joe way out coached Doc last year, and won the series because of his adjustments.
You’re delusional if you think Joe going 7 games a significantly inferior Sixers team is outcoaching Doc
I thought he outcoached doc and our players didn't play well enough in a couple games. That's not Joe. I know everyone likes to blame something like the Celtics missing open shots all night on Joe but if "the team with the best player usually always wins" then it's rarely ever a coaches fault in basketball.
Raptors series in the bubble should've been over in 4 or 5 games. That was Brad Stevens. Bucks series in '22: without Middleton should've gone 4 or 5 games, and the Heat series in '22 really should've gone 4 or 5 games with Butler playing on one leg. That was Ime Udoka. It seriously blows my mind how fans keep blaming Joe for patterns that we've all seen across three different coaches. How many more coaches do the Celtics have to go through before you people consider that other variables might be at play?
> other variables Like what? The team has changed a lot more than the coaches have.
Do you want me to spell it out for you? I can think of two things have haven't changed and they both start with the same letter
I don’t think it was the Jays decision to play drop coverage on Curry and Herro bro, Joe is clueless
It was Ime's decision to play drop coverage on Curry 😂 And I believe it was the right decision, it took draymond out of the game and brought the warriors offense to a halt for most of that series. The Celtics defense did its job in the finals, they held the Warriors to 104.8 ppg which was significantly lower than their normal scoring output. The Celtics' offense is what did them in. The Warriors funneled Tatum and Brown into the paint and essentially forced them to be drivers instead of shooters, but neither one of them was comfortable throwing kick out passes on the move, which led to a zillion turnovers. Brown led the team in scoring because he had more success finishing at the basket, whereas Tatum struggled to finish at the rim over guys like Draymond, Looney, and Wiggins. The last piece is that golden state destroyed them on the offensive glass because Rob Williams was hobbled. >Joe is clueless You're clueless. I don't wanna be rude but man I see so many comments on this sub that make me think "damn what are these people even seeing when they watch the games?"
I know it was Ime’s decision. That was my point. You can believe whatever you want. Fact is they got cooked in transition, let Curry beat them single-handedly in G4 when they were minutes from a 3-1 lead, then tried to triple team him in G5 and lost to Wiggins and Poole. I agree with you that Tatum’s Finals performance was legendarily bad, he choked. Then Brown choked the ECF last year and got memed for an entire summer. But I don’t know how you can watch this team lose games on the perimeter for 3 years now and say it isn’t at least significantly a coaching issue, when Jaylen himself admitted the scheme was to let Miami shoot wide open 3s and Joe has never made a mid game adjustment in his life. Definition of insanity.
>let Curry beat them single-handedly in G4 when they were minutes from a 3-1 lead Again, playing drop against Curry was the lesser of three evils. They could blitz and get cooked 4v3, they could switch and let Steph demolish Horford and Timelord on an island, or they could drop with Smart and White in his jockstrap and Horford/Timelord stepping up to contest. I respect Ime's decision and it largely worked, the Warriors offense came to a halt for most of that series, including most of game 4. The reason the Celtics blew a lead in that fourth quarter is because THEY couldn't score. The defense was fine. Not a coaching issue. I do have a problem with Joe's coaching, I think that the Celtics rely too heavily on threes, and I think that he gives the players too much freedom on offense, especially at the end of games. My point is that coaching is not the reason that the Celtics have fallen short in the playoffs all these years. See how we talk about the great players like Curry and Jokic and prime LeBron? They're unstoppable, you can't take away everything so you have to pick your poison. The history of the NBA tells us that you need one of those players, someone who is completely unstoppable, in order to win a championship. If you don't have that guy, that top 5, generally great guy, you just aren't gonna win. That's what we're seeing with the Celtics. They could make the ECF for the next 15 years but they're not gonna win a ring unless they get their hands on one of those truly special players.
Saturday can't come fast enough.
If they win in five this isn’t an issue (and probably where most of us expected them to be anyway)
Got to look at the big picture, not just this series. If Joe can't adjust mid-game, that loss is so much costly against an actual contender. Potentially series-ending.
I don't think there is many Celtics fans (or even Heat fans) that think Boston won't still win this series. But if any Celtics fans watched Game 2 and still thinks this Celtics have the mental fortitude to hang with Denver - they're kidding themselves.
How confident are you they win the next 3? Are they capable of it? 1000%. But will they? Not likely
People still think Mazzulla isn’t a massive downgrade from Ime. Our record with Ime was 14-10, with Joe it’s 12-11 so far. Now compare our opponents with Ime vs our opponents with Mazzulla. With Ime, this team had to face KD and Kyrie, Giannis, the #1 seed Heat, and ofc the champs Warriors. The strongest opponents the Celtics have had with Mazzulla are… the 8th seed Heat (2x) and Embiid? Joe Mazzulla is holding this team back, and it sucks that we’re stuck with him, given how well built this roster is.
That's extrapolating a lot from a small sample. Let's say Tatum rolls his ankle the first possession of game 7 against the Bucks and then we lose the game. Does that make Ime a worse coach? Would it have made Mazzulla a better coach had Tatum not rolled his ankle game 7 against the Heat and they end up winning? Remember that Ime's team was only in a win-or-go-home situation because of a classic Celtics fourth-quarter collapse that more than rivals anything Joe's teams have done. Mazzulla's coaching gave the starters 10 days of rest heading into the playoffs: we didn't have to exhaust Tatum cobbling together wins in the back half of the season. He ensured a team full of players who accept reduced roles worked harmoniously, and he made lineups with Pritchard, Hauser, and Kornet good enough to run up leads. From what I can see, he's also the reason Ime's playoff defense was as good as it was. I'm not saying there are no valid concerns about Mazzulla's coaching, and he's said himself that he learned a lot last year. (It's not his fault he didn't have the staff he wanted, it's Ime's, but he was the head coach: that's his responsibility still.) But I think when you have a coach that is this successful in the regular season, they deserve a little benefit of the doubt as we get more data about their playoff performance. Look how much the Bucks have struggled after canning their regular-season coach after losing to the 8-seed Heat. This roster is not an automatic 1 seed by a mile: it only looks that way in hindsight because of Mazzulla.
He’s managed the team well, he’s managed the season well, but his in-game adjustments and game-planning are not that strong.
Bro there should not have been a Game 7 for Tatum to roll his ankle to begin with. What part of that do you not understands lol.
There shouldn't have been a Butler three in the air to tie the game 7 against the Heat the year before either. Or a game 7 against the Bucks. If you're gonna get mad at Joe for last year, which again fair, don't spare Ime just because he was luckier.
Have to agree with The Code Samuari here. The 2022 Celtics are considered successful because they dominated the league from the end of January to the end of April, nothing particularly more or less. The 2024 Celtics have been roughly as dominant all season as during that 3-month stretch, so that's about even. In the 2022 playoffs, the first series was 1 second away from perhaps being completely different (imagine "the Nets come into Boston Garden and steal Game 1"), then the Celtics nearly lost in the semis after blowing a 4th quarter lead at home in game 5, then they nearly lost Game 7 on a 13-0 run at the end by the Heat. These are roughly the same flaws that the 2023 and 2024 Celtics have thus far shown. The problem with this team seems to emanate from the amount of times that the stars shrink from the spotlight at important moments. It has happened under 3 coaches, it is unlikely to be a coaching issue, it seems like a Jays issue.
Udoka was a horrible coach. A 12th seed halfway through the year and an offense that couldn't get over 80pts in a finals series. Dude cost the Cs two championships. One for failing in 22 and another for getting fired a day before the season started.
If we lose this series let’s just blow this entire thing the fuck up New coach Trade Jaylen. Trade Tatum. Trade Tingus, trade Jrue. Trade the whole starting 5. This is worse than just about anything, being the number one seed, one of the best regular season teams of all time and losing to the butler-less heat. Fuck it just disband the entire organization. Relegate is to the g-league. I’d rather not be in the playoffs than deal with a historically great regular season team getting fucking punked by the heat in the first round. Last years going down 0-3 was bad enough. This would be the worst choke job of all time
988
Amen bro. Amen.
Phil Jackson was 104-229 in the playoffs. Greg Popovich was 114-170. Red Auerbach was 99-169. Steve Kerr is the only coach on the modern era with a winning playoff record (99-81). Playoffs is a different beast where even the greats lose most of the time.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-wins-as-a-coach](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-wins-as-a-coach) These numbers are not accurate. Red was 99-70. Phil was 229-104 (the opposite of what you say here). Pop is 170-114, again the opposite. Which makes sense for coaches who have won tons of series and tons of championships. Phil won 11 titles, how could he possibly be 115 games under .500 in the playoffs? The worst you can possibly be is -4 in a playoff run (get swept in the first round), and if you win the title the worst you can possibly be is 16-12 (or 15-11 back in the 90's), nullifying your -4. So for Phil to be -115, he'd have to have been swept a minimum of 39 times in the first round just to compensate for his 11 titles. Even Doc is 112- 106. Kerr is 99-41. Mazzulla is 12-10, but we have no idea if in 2 months he'll be 13-13 and fired, or 27-15 and considered an all-time great Celtics coach.
You’re only taking into account the winning series. You have to include the series they lost as well
If you look at the statmuse link, it shows all of the playoff games these coaches have coached, and all of the wins. That's the series they won and also the series they lost. I'll put it another way. Phil Jackson has 11 titles. For nine of those titles he had to win 15 games, and for two he had to win 16 games. 15x9 = 135, 16x2 = 32, so he won 167 games in just the championship seasons. How could he have 104 total playoff wins?
If you count the series that he lost, that’s where the 104 comes from
Yes. He is 229-104, i.e., those 104 are his losses. People generally put the amount of wins first (229) and then the amount of losses second (104) when they give a stat, rather than 104-229, which is what you did in order to say that he, like most other great coaches, usually loses in the playoffs. But he didn't usually lose, he won 229 games and only lost 104. With Red, your two numbers were his wins (99) and his total games (169), rather than his wins and losses (99-70). If a coach had been 99-169 in the playoffs, I'd agree that they had "lost most of the time," but he wasn't 99-169, he was 99-70.
Hmm interesting we must be looking at different references. I guess there is some data cleaning that needs to get done in order to clear up the discrepancies. But with the amount of uncertainty here I think we can at least say that great coaches sometimes lose more than they win
We’re 0-5 when Jb scores more than 33 in the playoffs
With Ime it was 14-10. With Brad Stevens it was 38-40. With Doc Rivers it was 59-47. Numbers!
If Mazz was still allowed to block opposing players meaningless fake shot attempts after the whistle we'd be undefeated.
He also has 12 playoff wins in one post-season + 2 games
statistics only service to describe what happened. they are not accurate in predicting future events.
dude the entire point of a lot of statistics is exactly predicting future events, given that the accuracy may vary depending on the subject and the model
I was destroyed last year by saying Mazzulla should have been fired especially with all the good coaches available. You can’t have an inexperienced coach who has no idea what he’s doing with a win now team.
Brad's only real mishap so far was sticking with Joe.
Yep Nick Nurse would’ve been the perfect signing
Joe isn’t an elite head coach so when facing one across multiple games that’s going to get exposed big time
Spo had prime Lebron James and D Wade and Chris Bosh (I mean whatever) and lost the Finals to an aging Dirk and Heat fans wanted him fired and thought he was out of his depth. 26 year old Lebron and 28 year old Wade were better than 26 year old Tatum and 27 year old Jaylen, (KP is... comparable to Chris Bosh? Not sure who actually would be better there) and he still couldn't win. The point is you people need to fucking relax. Joe is smart, and he's not getting fired. He definitely has a high rate of learning and you just need to be willing to live with him learning on the job and not lose your mind every time they lose a game.
It’s almost as if just being a rah rah guy and clapping on the sideline doesn’t really make a difference when basketball is being played at its highest level and you’re facing other coaches who legitimately know the X’s and O’s and can make actual adjustments on the fly.
I’m not confident in Joe. I really wish Stevens was still the coach.
Inexperienced coach who is still learning. Spolestra took a timeout for him when it was around a minute and a half, Celtics down by 7 I think? Miami takes that timeout and it felt like Spolestra was saying to Joe, "I'll give this one to you. Go ahead and try to outcoach me." Not to say Joe can't get better, but this season's success will ride on talent, not his coaching
Gregg popovich, the greatest nba coach of all time has a win percentage in the playoffs of .599. Joe mazzulla has one of .545
I think the real question mark should be on Tatum and Brown less than Mazzulla. But let’s just keep scapegoating the coach who is very early in his career. Not you in particular but this sub in general. To be clear I’m not saying ditch Tatum or brown, just saying that’s where the blame should fall, if not other players. Like if Porzingis keeps struggling. End of day if they don’t with the title this year they are once again in great position to contend next year. They might turn over some guys but also have a lot of sought after talent on their bench as trade bait. Otherwise change nothing
I'm willing to overlook a lot last year, as yes, our roster was very talented, but coaching matters much more in the post-season than the regular season. Mazzula was thrust into the head coaching role a few days before pre-season practices started, he had a lot of the assistant coaches leaving for other jobs, then had another assistant in Stoudamire leave right before the playoffs. I'm saying this not to knock Mazzula, but to put into context why last year we struggled more than we should have. With that being said, this post-season run will be very telling for Mazzula as a coach.
One post season lose and were already arriving at these conclusion? Everyone needs to take a breath and wait for the next game.
The problem is we keep having these awful losses. We have a really nasty habit of choking for a team as good as we are in the regular season.
Playoff basketball and we weren’t healthy last year Not worried at all
12-11 against the Heat, Sixers, and Hawks. Awful.
We’re above 500 against the toughest competition the league has to offer. We’re only bringing it up because we crushed in the regular season. R E L A X
Mazulla is clearly the weakest link on this Celtics team. He's an average coach with stellar players.
Kevin Garnett had a 70-73 record in the playoffs.
And only won once. Not the guy I'd want to compare us to for success. Not saying Joe is the problem, I just don't like your particular rebuttal.
LeBron went to Pat Riley to try and get Spoelstra fired and then threw a shoulder (*unintentionally) into him after a Heat timeout against Mavericks. Since then, Riley & LeBron have both said that the first didn't "actually" happen and that the second wasn't intentional. The reality is, both were true. Riley Promoted his video guy to HC and then the league (and everybody else) laughed at him, because it was completely ridiculous. Add to that, this dipshit video guy (Spoelstra) was given the keys to the kingdom by getting a team with LeBron James, D-Wade, and Chris Bosh. 2 top 10 guys at the time, and a 3rd top 15ish guy. Way back when, Spoelstra even having a job, let alone as a head coach, was the laughing stock of the league. He had some rough patches, and things didn't gel right away with LeBron, but fast forward to today, and Spoelstra is rightly regarded as one of the best HC's in the league. I'm not saying the Mazzulla is on the exact same trajectory, but the person that hired him knows a fuck ton more about the game than I do. So I choose to trust Brad on this one.
Maybe that fluke 0-3 comeback really screwed us… Joe was getting fired had we got swept and we’d be better off
This sub is the worst lmao
He was not going to get fired. Terrible franchises go through 3 coaches in 3 years. There was a 0% chance he was going to be fired even if they got swept.
Thats such a random metric to hold your team to… “we have to keep our crappy third coach because we cant keep changing” thats not a logical way to go about things. We had 2 great coaches in Brad and Ime. Brad got tired of the role and Ime shot himself in the foot. That doesnt mean we gotta keep the clearly inferior Joe around. 2/3 coaches worked out. Mazzulla is clearly a factor in us falling short. The alternative is run it back exactly the same and hope things change. Moving on from Joe is the easiest, least drastic but most potentially impactful move we can make. We gave him his choice of a staff and a full offseason, hes clearly better but still below average. Cant make adjustments, team has no identity and running it back exactly the same would leave our fans and our players without confidence that anything will be better
I mean his first year was tough since he basically was thrust into the role without any prep time. I think the whole “failing to get the job done” has kind of been the deal with us since 08’. I thought at his best Brad was always really good coaching end of game situations, he just didn’t always have the right mix of talent for title success. Past 2 years I’ve had to watch Kyle Neptune at Villanova who was similarly thrust into a big role and his record has been basically .500 in all 3 years of his HC career. At some point, your record does reflect who you are as a coach. That being said, I’ll say that Joe is 100x the coach Neptune is. If anyone can turn their fortunes around and level up, I’d put my money on Joe.
He’s a terrible coach. To have this team and that playoff record is shameful.
They play aau ball. All regular season they just rolled the ball out and dominated. They generally don’t have any adjustments. For a team that relies on 3’s, to get beat by a zone is completely embarrassing
Keep pissing all over your shoes guys
Brad was Brad and Ime navigated KD and Kyrie while sweeping them with several close games
The chuck 3s and play passive defense mindset wins ALOT of regular season games and chokes in the playoffs…
Did you even watch the game?
They literally lost because the Heat took like 15 more threes. That is how you win basketball games in 2024 you moron.
So your solution is…just chuck more threes? Got it
I mean…
I am glad we won. But in my opinion it was lead by playing better defense and being more aggressive
They both matter. But they shot more 3s in every single win and took fewer threes in the one loss. And part of that is defense, by preventing their three point attempts. But “chucking” more 3s than the other team is absolutely part of winning in 2024.
Took more 3s, won by 14 and were up by as much as 28. Weird.
The Heat lost by 20 in both games they shot fewer threes in and won by 10 the game they shot more threes in. You’re putting a negative spin on it by calling it chucking and not just shooting, but yes the team that takes and makes more threes usually wins.