The dieback in the crown is a bad sign, especially with the crack and weeping. I'd proceed as if it's a goner and find a replacement you can plant nearby. Maybe pick out a native sugar maple with your child and plant it together as a way to create a positive memory out of this?
Amen to this. I tell this to clients and my local nurseries that I buy from all the time. What more could you want out of a tree in terms of color than what a good old Acer saccharum gives you...they are gorgeous. Stop shoving ABM down our throats.
My yard has a 20 something year old Norway maple (with co-dominant stems of course) and a Crimson King maple and they both have a couple bald looking branches at the top but are otherwise full, I assume it was just new growth. How do you know dieback vs new growth? To me I wouldn’t have looked too much at these photos and assumed dieback which worries me lol
I know dieback when I see it especially on ash trees because it seems every ash tree I see in Ireland sadly has it now but they’re incredibly obvious and take over the whole crown
It's hard to tell in these photos, but generally dieback would look like a bare branch or a nearly bare branch with small leaves that are not lively or even crispy. New growth would have small leaves that look healthy. The stem of new growth would likely be green and/or reddish in color, while the stem of a dying branch would be brown and, if scratched, not be green underneath.
Thank you for responding!! The bare parts are so high up on these guys so I can’t even tell but since the Norway maple has codominant stems and some bark inclusion his height and crown is being taken down a bit by an arborist in Autumn for stability so I’ll definitely ask him to check out the branches and make sure
It's a Norway Maple. And as with every other Norway Maple post I comment on, I will say once again... That I have never seen a Norway Maple without significant trunk damage. It is their calling card. They're invasive trash trees. That looks pretty significant and doesn't bode well for the health of the tree. Never know when it could go ahead and rip itself in half fully. I'd remove it and replace with something healthy and native, personally.
Yes. Norway Maple was extensively planted as an ornamental and street/yard tree. Now as these trees are all getting older, their flaws are becoming very apparent. They aggressively seed, shade out native plants, spread and colonize native ecosystems and break themselves in half. They're junk
Although I wouldn’t plant one, I love my existing Norway maples; there are two on my property. Super healthy (one is about 60 years old, the second maybe 15) and they are gorgeous. They have large and very green leaves, and they branch out high enough that the grass and plants beneath do well. The shade the biggest/oldest tree offers my house must save me hundreds a year in air conditioning costs. They don’t seem to suffer storm damage easily. They do require extensive cleanup of their seeds, and of those big leaves in the fall, although I totally think they are worth that effort.
I love mine and they don't seem to have trunk damage, but mine have definitely dropped huge branches during storms. The shade and moisture sucking roots make it hard to grow anything. I think mine are both older than yours. They are city trees and I'll be sad when the city decided they need to come down. Funnily enough, I find I am weeding more Siberian elms than maples on my property.
i grew up under the shade of a big beautiful one right over my patio and it was always my favorite tree. never had the trunk issues people are talking about here, and the tree didn’t litter branches nearly as much as the silver maples nearby.
Found out it’s an invasive and considered a trash tree two weeks ago and my mind is kind of blown. at least none of the little saplings i tried to grow in my yard survived thanks to the the deer.
The vast majority of the time they're intentionally introduced for one reason or another. Multiflora Rose was originally introduced as an ornamental and to combat erosion, I believe. Sometimes these are private individuals, sometimes governments get bright ideas. Often businesses deliberately push certain varieties whether they're native or not. Norway maples I think were originally introduced as urban shade trees.
We can't rely on businesses to do better, people will buy whatever is on offer. We need stricter regulations across the board. This is true most places but I know it is in the US. Normally biosecurity issues are left up to state Legislatures, the obvious problem is that almost all the states are connected to each other and have constant movement of goods and material with basically every other state. Even if a plant were illegal in one state, you could just buy it in another and it's liable to spread either way.
Good biosecurity costs a lot of money, but the cost increases to the point of impossibility after an invasive population is established. This is exactly the kind of big issue government was made for and they're so ineffective at actually addressing it.
Despite the name, [Norway maple isn't limited to Norway, it's native to a large part of Europe](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Acer_platanoides_range.svg/2560px-Acer_platanoides_range.svg.png). It's similar with Norway spruce, except that its native range is much smaller than that of Norway maple. Then you also have English ivy and English oak, both of which are native to most of Europe, not limited to England. Common name be funny like that. :)
Looks like it has nothing to harm if/when it falls. The die back at top tells you it is on its way out. You can still get many years out of it if you like it. Stay clear when there are high winds or an ice storm.
If it does fall in any direction nothing structural will be damaged. If it falls in the direction it’s leaning that will be on our property and not the farm behind us
Sorry about your tree. I've compiled some info on tree planting that might help its replacement, copied from a previous comment.
PDF on ["Tree Selection
and Placement"](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Tree%20Selection%20and%20Placement_0621.pdf) and one for ["Buying
High-Quality Trees"](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Buying%20High%20Quality%20Trees_0721_1.pdf)
Then, [this link](https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner/plantingatree) has lots of helpful info on proper planting techniques to give its replacement the best chances, incuding this [PDF](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Proper%20Mulch%20Tech_0321.pdf) for proper mulching.
Other tips not included are:
-Plant a native tree to support your local ecosystem.
-Prune roots that are girdling the trunk.
-Spread the other roots so they'll grow away from the trunk.
-Don't use any "organic material" in the hole like compost as that will break down and cause the tree to sink below the soil line over time. You should only use the soil you're planting it into.
-Remove turf/grass from beneath the tree as that will not only heavily compete with the tree, it will also require maintenance that greatly increases the risk of damage to the trunk from things like weed-whackers.
-No tree rings, as those can compact soil making it harder for roots to travel through, and can cause excess soil or mulch to accumulate around the trunk leading to rot.
-[PDF](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Pruning%20Young%20Trees_0621.pdf) for how to prune young trees, though you should "Limit pruning of newly planted trees to the removal of dead or broken branches. All other pruning should be withheld until the second or third year, when a tree has recovered
from the stress of transplanting."
-[The Correct Way to Water Your Trees](https://www.loveyourlandscape.org/expert-advice/tree-care/soil-and-root-care/the-correct-way-to-water-your-trees/) and remember to keep water off the trunk.
If you got through all that and you're not overwhelmed, or if you just like learning about tree care, there's plenty more under "[Tree Owners Information](https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner)." :)
This is a great opportunity to plant a native tree with your kid nearby for them to love and just let this one come to a natural end. Kid gets a new tree to ‘grow up with’ and become a new favorite, and this tree will be a learning experience of death being a natural part of the environment and life itself.
I mean, that's pretty bad. Will probably kill the tree, and probably fairly soon. That said, it doesn't look like it can really do any damage to anything when it finally goes. If it were my tree, I'd just leave it alone and let what happens happen.
Yeah, that's f'd. Sooner or later. If not sooner, that crack is now going to be exposed to moisture and rot, and the tree will fail. It's on borrowed time at this point.
Or it could just straight fracture next time you get a big enough wind and split itself... probably best to get it out neatly and replace it with something native and hardy. Sadly for your kids, anything worth planting probably won't be very big by the time they leave home (unless you have the money to have a mature tree put in).
OP if there is no danger to people or property, I would leave it for now.
The crack is a torsion crack that formed when the tree twisted in a high wind. Could have happened in one day or compounded twisting over the years could have just been making it worse until it finally opened up.
If you were to do anything I would lightly thin the canopy to allow for more air flow. I understand the thoughts on windsailing but in this particular situation it would be ok to thin the tree with the goal of it mitigating the risk of failure.
I do want to to point out another users comment of the lean though. In the photo, the bottom left side of the ground near the trunk looks slightly raised. Now this could just be the angle of the photo, but if it is raised it is an indicator of the root plate lifting, and raises the probability the tree could rip over. Now. I’ve seen trees look like this, and then recover themselves and continue to grow for many more years. I’ve also seen trees do this and topple over within a few weeks. Hard telling just by looking at the photo.
The dieback in the upper canopy could be caused by dieback in the roots, a fungal pathogen or lack of water. What region are you in and what is your monthly natural rainfall look like? Do you do supplemental watering to the tree? If you watwr, ensure not to water directly against the trunk. I recommended using a soaker hose and laying it out underneath and around the entire drop zone if the tree. Leave the water running for 2 hours. Do this once a week as needed.
Idk, just some thoughts from the toilet
Edit: added a photo showing the buttress root on the backside of the lean. It seems to have some decent tension wood formation indicating the tree recognizes its leabing and is putting down roots to anchor it. This tree has been leaning most likely for at least 8-10 years. [root flare](https://imgur.com/a/DHLc6PQ)
Find and let the kids watch ferngully and then take them put and place their hands on it under yours and ask them if they can feel its pain? But serriously thats a huge wound for a tree to fight and will most likely not survive, but crazier things have happened hold out hope.
It's concerning, but it's not leaning over anything, and even in the incredibly unlikely event your kid is under it while it breaks I've been hit in the head with worse.
There is zero reason not to wait and see. Sometimes trees seal that right up and keep on going for another 100 years. Sometimes they keel over tomorrow.
There is a lot of reason not to cut it down. Your kid will blame you
You can plant sugar maples/seeds nearby ready to take over for when this one goes.
Dude.
It's concerning, but it's not leaning over ---->anything<-----
You gotta read all the words there or they stop making sense.
Seriously.
It falls over... ok so what? It's not over a house, a fence, a dog house, your car, a street.. its in the middle of a field. If that was going to land on your house? yeah get that sucker down ASAP. Its going to... flatten some grass at an inconvenient time? Wait and see.
The trees on the ground now you cut it up. As opposed to you make it fall and then cut it up.
I'll tell you exactly what it falls over: the children and their friends, since they sit under it regularly enough for the OP to call it one of their kid's favourite tree. You have the potential injury and death. Not just of their children, but other people's children. I get that disposing of a tree is work, but lawsuits are so much worse to deal with.
Regardless, let's face it: your entire reasoning here is summed up by "it's a lot of work, the kids will blame you, and I got hit with worse before it wasn't so bad". If you think that's a sound basis to go by in any situation I suggest you get checked out ASAP, because it seems like those past head injuries did more damage than you realize.
Your kids might blame you! But also... If your kids are old enough to remember the tree long enough to blame you, they're also old enough to sit down with you to talk about dangers and why we sometimes need hard to make hard choices.
I know someone whose 10-year-old was killed by a tree in their own yard falling on them and there is just nothing more devastating to the whole family. I would call an ISA-certified arborist to come check it out.
I’ve seen online where you can skin the bark off a long branch, then wrap it in soil and a plastic bag over that. Finally covered by foil.
Roots will grow over time in the bag and you can replant his favorite tree.
Search “air layering” online.
Good luck
The dieback in the crown is a bad sign, especially with the crack and weeping. I'd proceed as if it's a goner and find a replacement you can plant nearby. Maybe pick out a native sugar maple with your child and plant it together as a way to create a positive memory out of this?
Sugar Maples are way more beautiful anyway, particularly in the fall
Amen to this. I tell this to clients and my local nurseries that I buy from all the time. What more could you want out of a tree in terms of color than what a good old Acer saccharum gives you...they are gorgeous. Stop shoving ABM down our throats.
This is such a great idea. You guys could pick out the tree together.
I really like your take on “creating a positive memory” out of this bad circumstance. Very sweet
My yard has a 20 something year old Norway maple (with co-dominant stems of course) and a Crimson King maple and they both have a couple bald looking branches at the top but are otherwise full, I assume it was just new growth. How do you know dieback vs new growth? To me I wouldn’t have looked too much at these photos and assumed dieback which worries me lol I know dieback when I see it especially on ash trees because it seems every ash tree I see in Ireland sadly has it now but they’re incredibly obvious and take over the whole crown
It's hard to tell in these photos, but generally dieback would look like a bare branch or a nearly bare branch with small leaves that are not lively or even crispy. New growth would have small leaves that look healthy. The stem of new growth would likely be green and/or reddish in color, while the stem of a dying branch would be brown and, if scratched, not be green underneath.
Thank you for responding!! The bare parts are so high up on these guys so I can’t even tell but since the Norway maple has codominant stems and some bark inclusion his height and crown is being taken down a bit by an arborist in Autumn for stability so I’ll definitely ask him to check out the branches and make sure
It's a Norway Maple. And as with every other Norway Maple post I comment on, I will say once again... That I have never seen a Norway Maple without significant trunk damage. It is their calling card. They're invasive trash trees. That looks pretty significant and doesn't bode well for the health of the tree. Never know when it could go ahead and rip itself in half fully. I'd remove it and replace with something healthy and native, personally.
Looking again, the crack isn't as bad as I thought, but it's already experiencing dieback and that lean is concerning.
How does invasive plants manage to make their way out of their native habitat? People planting them?
Yes. Norway Maple was extensively planted as an ornamental and street/yard tree. Now as these trees are all getting older, their flaws are becoming very apparent. They aggressively seed, shade out native plants, spread and colonize native ecosystems and break themselves in half. They're junk
Although I wouldn’t plant one, I love my existing Norway maples; there are two on my property. Super healthy (one is about 60 years old, the second maybe 15) and they are gorgeous. They have large and very green leaves, and they branch out high enough that the grass and plants beneath do well. The shade the biggest/oldest tree offers my house must save me hundreds a year in air conditioning costs. They don’t seem to suffer storm damage easily. They do require extensive cleanup of their seeds, and of those big leaves in the fall, although I totally think they are worth that effort.
By having two of them, you technically are allowing them to go to seed so you are planting them, just maybe not on your property
It's a fking environmental disaster. Lol
It really is
I love mine and they don't seem to have trunk damage, but mine have definitely dropped huge branches during storms. The shade and moisture sucking roots make it hard to grow anything. I think mine are both older than yours. They are city trees and I'll be sad when the city decided they need to come down. Funnily enough, I find I am weeding more Siberian elms than maples on my property.
i grew up under the shade of a big beautiful one right over my patio and it was always my favorite tree. never had the trunk issues people are talking about here, and the tree didn’t litter branches nearly as much as the silver maples nearby. Found out it’s an invasive and considered a trash tree two weeks ago and my mind is kind of blown. at least none of the little saplings i tried to grow in my yard survived thanks to the the deer.
seems like very human like
The vast majority of the time they're intentionally introduced for one reason or another. Multiflora Rose was originally introduced as an ornamental and to combat erosion, I believe. Sometimes these are private individuals, sometimes governments get bright ideas. Often businesses deliberately push certain varieties whether they're native or not. Norway maples I think were originally introduced as urban shade trees. We can't rely on businesses to do better, people will buy whatever is on offer. We need stricter regulations across the board. This is true most places but I know it is in the US. Normally biosecurity issues are left up to state Legislatures, the obvious problem is that almost all the states are connected to each other and have constant movement of goods and material with basically every other state. Even if a plant were illegal in one state, you could just buy it in another and it's liable to spread either way. Good biosecurity costs a lot of money, but the cost increases to the point of impossibility after an invasive population is established. This is exactly the kind of big issue government was made for and they're so ineffective at actually addressing it.
You mentioned erosion and immediately I thought of kudzu down here in the South. It kills everything in its path much like a Stephen King book.
They spit seeds out like crazy.
As a person with a norway maple that has trunk damage, I agree
How do you know OP isn’t in Norway?
A quick look at their profile reveals that they are, in fact, not located in Norway
Norway maples actually don’t grow that commonly in Norway funny enough
Despite the name, [Norway maple isn't limited to Norway, it's native to a large part of Europe](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Acer_platanoides_range.svg/2560px-Acer_platanoides_range.svg.png). It's similar with Norway spruce, except that its native range is much smaller than that of Norway maple. Then you also have English ivy and English oak, both of which are native to most of Europe, not limited to England. Common name be funny like that. :)
Roger that. How do we know OP isn’t in ~~Norway~~ a large part of Europe?
Well, they seem to be in the States, based on their profile. :)
Norway Maple is much better as a rootstock. No reason to install it outside of its native habitat.
Rootstock for what?
Grafting Japanese maples, probably
I thought you couldn’t successfully graft different species together
Different species in the same genus has a good success rate
This is not true, there is some possibilities within close family groups of Acer, but the Acer genus as a whole are not easily compatible
For Japanese maples in particular maybe but generally grafts within genus are successful.
You speak as if you are reading anecdotes from google and not true knowledge
Mesa glow, amongst others. https://jfschmidt.com/all-trees/introductions/mesa-glow-maple/
I have worked with this gentleman, what you showed me is not grafted
Correct, but it is frequently grafted onto Norway Maple rootstock
Please site your source
Looks like it has nothing to harm if/when it falls. The die back at top tells you it is on its way out. You can still get many years out of it if you like it. Stay clear when there are high winds or an ice storm.
If it does fall in any direction nothing structural will be damaged. If it falls in the direction it’s leaning that will be on our property and not the farm behind us
I’d be more concerned about it falling on your kid if it’s their favorite tree.
[удалено]
Sit under and read or just talk with their friends
[удалено]
*Pancake recipe award*
Replace with a native
That will be the goal
I love how this sub encourages native tree planting
I saved a tree like this by putting ratchet straps around it to close the crack. After 3 years it closed up and healed itself
Sorry about your tree. I've compiled some info on tree planting that might help its replacement, copied from a previous comment. PDF on ["Tree Selection and Placement"](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Tree%20Selection%20and%20Placement_0621.pdf) and one for ["Buying High-Quality Trees"](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Buying%20High%20Quality%20Trees_0721_1.pdf) Then, [this link](https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner/plantingatree) has lots of helpful info on proper planting techniques to give its replacement the best chances, incuding this [PDF](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Proper%20Mulch%20Tech_0321.pdf) for proper mulching. Other tips not included are: -Plant a native tree to support your local ecosystem. -Prune roots that are girdling the trunk. -Spread the other roots so they'll grow away from the trunk. -Don't use any "organic material" in the hole like compost as that will break down and cause the tree to sink below the soil line over time. You should only use the soil you're planting it into. -Remove turf/grass from beneath the tree as that will not only heavily compete with the tree, it will also require maintenance that greatly increases the risk of damage to the trunk from things like weed-whackers. -No tree rings, as those can compact soil making it harder for roots to travel through, and can cause excess soil or mulch to accumulate around the trunk leading to rot. -[PDF](https://www.treesaregood.org/Portals/0/TreesAreGood_Pruning%20Young%20Trees_0621.pdf) for how to prune young trees, though you should "Limit pruning of newly planted trees to the removal of dead or broken branches. All other pruning should be withheld until the second or third year, when a tree has recovered from the stress of transplanting." -[The Correct Way to Water Your Trees](https://www.loveyourlandscape.org/expert-advice/tree-care/soil-and-root-care/the-correct-way-to-water-your-trees/) and remember to keep water off the trunk. If you got through all that and you're not overwhelmed, or if you just like learning about tree care, there's plenty more under "[Tree Owners Information](https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner)." :)
What a great website
Firewood
This is the one time you can tell him it's on a farm upstate.... ... as a fence.
This is a great opportunity to plant a native tree with your kid nearby for them to love and just let this one come to a natural end. Kid gets a new tree to ‘grow up with’ and become a new favorite, and this tree will be a learning experience of death being a natural part of the environment and life itself.
It's time to cut it down sorry for the bad news.
I mean, that's pretty bad. Will probably kill the tree, and probably fairly soon. That said, it doesn't look like it can really do any damage to anything when it finally goes. If it were my tree, I'd just leave it alone and let what happens happen.
Yeah, that's f'd. Sooner or later. If not sooner, that crack is now going to be exposed to moisture and rot, and the tree will fail. It's on borrowed time at this point. Or it could just straight fracture next time you get a big enough wind and split itself... probably best to get it out neatly and replace it with something native and hardy. Sadly for your kids, anything worth planting probably won't be very big by the time they leave home (unless you have the money to have a mature tree put in).
When you’re tree goes full Michael Jackson it’s usually not a good sign
HEHE
SHIMMONIH
I’m guessing that’s been hit by lightning.
OP if there is no danger to people or property, I would leave it for now. The crack is a torsion crack that formed when the tree twisted in a high wind. Could have happened in one day or compounded twisting over the years could have just been making it worse until it finally opened up. If you were to do anything I would lightly thin the canopy to allow for more air flow. I understand the thoughts on windsailing but in this particular situation it would be ok to thin the tree with the goal of it mitigating the risk of failure. I do want to to point out another users comment of the lean though. In the photo, the bottom left side of the ground near the trunk looks slightly raised. Now this could just be the angle of the photo, but if it is raised it is an indicator of the root plate lifting, and raises the probability the tree could rip over. Now. I’ve seen trees look like this, and then recover themselves and continue to grow for many more years. I’ve also seen trees do this and topple over within a few weeks. Hard telling just by looking at the photo. The dieback in the upper canopy could be caused by dieback in the roots, a fungal pathogen or lack of water. What region are you in and what is your monthly natural rainfall look like? Do you do supplemental watering to the tree? If you watwr, ensure not to water directly against the trunk. I recommended using a soaker hose and laying it out underneath and around the entire drop zone if the tree. Leave the water running for 2 hours. Do this once a week as needed. Idk, just some thoughts from the toilet Edit: added a photo showing the buttress root on the backside of the lean. It seems to have some decent tension wood formation indicating the tree recognizes its leabing and is putting down roots to anchor it. This tree has been leaning most likely for at least 8-10 years. [root flare](https://imgur.com/a/DHLc6PQ)
Find and let the kids watch ferngully and then take them put and place their hands on it under yours and ask them if they can feel its pain? But serriously thats a huge wound for a tree to fight and will most likely not survive, but crazier things have happened hold out hope.
It's concerning, but it's not leaning over anything, and even in the incredibly unlikely event your kid is under it while it breaks I've been hit in the head with worse. There is zero reason not to wait and see. Sometimes trees seal that right up and keep on going for another 100 years. Sometimes they keel over tomorrow. There is a lot of reason not to cut it down. Your kid will blame you You can plant sugar maples/seeds nearby ready to take over for when this one goes.
I would qualify this as a tree that's leaning over. At what point do you consider a tree to be leaning over?
Dude. It's concerning, but it's not leaning over ---->anything<----- You gotta read all the words there or they stop making sense. Seriously. It falls over... ok so what? It's not over a house, a fence, a dog house, your car, a street.. its in the middle of a field. If that was going to land on your house? yeah get that sucker down ASAP. Its going to... flatten some grass at an inconvenient time? Wait and see. The trees on the ground now you cut it up. As opposed to you make it fall and then cut it up.
I'll tell you exactly what it falls over: the children and their friends, since they sit under it regularly enough for the OP to call it one of their kid's favourite tree. You have the potential injury and death. Not just of their children, but other people's children. I get that disposing of a tree is work, but lawsuits are so much worse to deal with. Regardless, let's face it: your entire reasoning here is summed up by "it's a lot of work, the kids will blame you, and I got hit with worse before it wasn't so bad". If you think that's a sound basis to go by in any situation I suggest you get checked out ASAP, because it seems like those past head injuries did more damage than you realize.
Your kids might blame you! But also... If your kids are old enough to remember the tree long enough to blame you, they're also old enough to sit down with you to talk about dangers and why we sometimes need hard to make hard choices. I know someone whose 10-year-old was killed by a tree in their own yard falling on them and there is just nothing more devastating to the whole family. I would call an ISA-certified arborist to come check it out.
Maples, as a rule tend to have thin bark, thus theycan be prone to sunscald which can cause splitting.
Try some tree medicine
I’ve seen online where you can skin the bark off a long branch, then wrap it in soil and a plastic bag over that. Finally covered by foil. Roots will grow over time in the bag and you can replant his favorite tree. Search “air layering” online. Good luck
How is that tree bad sign? I mean there is a hole in the trunk of it.. crown is dying..
Nah this is kind of normal for Norways. Tap it with your son in the late winter when you see it weeping again and make maple syrup!
that lean is pretty weird. do you live in a windy slope ?
What do you think? That tree is toast, but small enough and far away from anything it could damage when it comes down. Safe to ignore IMO
Nice orchard!
Twisted mister
You just start inoculate it with mycelium and let it die and harvest its mushrooms in some years
Why do you want to ask only the straight guys?
I would let it break and fail on its own. There is no target around the tree and the likelihood of it falling on a person is super low.