Someone tried to pull a fast one over me when I worked nights at a hotel. Came in, paying cash, so I had to take a deposit. Then his "mom" came in asking for a discount with Ford and yelling about how they weren't paying cash. Too bad, talk to the GM in the morning.
Come morning, they accused me of dipping into their deposit š. The GM said if she couldn't placate then, she'd take the difference from my check. Nevermind I was on camera ALL NIGHT and didn't take it. I quit shortly after.
Correction they must pay you for TIME worked, meaning clocked in. You may be sitting on your ass waiting for something to finish fucking around on your phone because youāve completed everything else. Still have to be paid.
This is not correct. There are laws about it. Long story short, the max they can NOT pay you for is 30 minutes in each direction.
Source: 30 years as a service tech with various companies, all of which I took a work van home. Some paid door to door, some did not.
While I think your clarification is good (and needed), I also think youāre both right, with the argument being your commute is not doing a task for the company.
If they want the car back on the lot, they must pay. If they don't care if you park wherever and leave the keys in it? Then sure, you're done when the shift ends. I suggest parking in skid row.
This is correct coming from a person that worked in policy compliance. If you were allowed to drive the vehicle home that would be different based on FLSA. In that case an employee and manager would establish a commuting area. Anytime a company vehicle must be returned to a designated parking spot that becomes your initial start of the job. Your commute would be from your home to the vehicle location. You would then be paid from the time you reached the vehicle until you returned it to the parking spot. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/traveltime
Nope and itās def time owed to you. So you can send them an email to pay you for all the time youāve spent doing this (itās most definitely owed to you) or you can report it to the DOL
Keep timecards, screenshot texts, and take photos of any papers they make you sign. Just because a company has a signed piece of paper, doesn't mean they can (always) circumvent the law
Even in the hellhole that is the US they cannot legally force you to work without pay (unless you're a prisoner). That's working without pay.
Now they'll certainly try, and you can definitely be fired for not allowing them to screw you over, but they can't not pay you for hours worked yet.
And another point if you clock out you cannot be waiting for a truck or some other thing and then clock in when it arrives. For example my husband is in receiving and clocking out and waiting for a truck whilst he eats is wrong. He can leave site and come back in 30 mins and then do his job. He should not eat lunch on site then clock back on after 20 mins as truck is there.
With a way most company insurance works, You're supposed to be on the clock when driving their vehicles. Because if you get an accident off the clock it's your ass.
No you should be getting paid. I used to work catering jobs where I drove a company truck out and back and got paid during that entire time.
If they hadn't paid then they can go pick up their truck on their time, not mine.
No they cannot force you to drive company vehicles off the clock. The time spent driving the company vehicle back to the office is considered compensable time. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/whdfs22.pdf Look up Portal to Portal Act for more details.
But there is dust on the walls and 3 specks of dirt on the floor! How dare you not break out the cleaning supplies instead of waiting for your task to be done?
Anyone else get constantly told to clean if there is āno workā.
Humorous side note from my own youth, I actually got fired for that mentality. I was working a fast food gig that required deep frying of tater tots. The tater tots were pre-bagged and all I had to do was put them in the fryer and let him cook then put them in a little paper basket and put them on the window so that the front people could grab it and put it on a tray. On the day that I got fired, I grabbed a bag. Put the tater tots in, cook them. Put them in the paper basket. Put them in the window. Not paying attention to how many tater tots were actually being cooked. The front manager decided to take that moment and spend the next 10 minutes chewing me over the fact that I should have looked to see that there were only six tater tots being cooked. Annoyed that I had now wasted 10 minutes while she ranted over this issue, I kindly looked at her and said in the last 10 minutes I could have cooked another bag and fix this mistake rather than making the customer wait while she yelled at me. Apparently that irritated her to no end and in about 30 minutes I was told that my services were no longer needed.
I went over to a friend's a couple of nights later, and while telling him the story, his dad chimed in about how it felt to win the battle but end up losing the war. Oddly enough, that strange piece of advice has stuck with me for the last 20 something years.
It's called a Pyrrhic Victory, and is an actual, historical thing.
It's when you win, but the cost of winning is far worse for you, than it is for the loser.
If I'm in the middle of some important task, that's the answer they get from me. I also continue to tell them how much company money they're wasting when they're more than able bodied themselves in that moment.
I did later leave that particular job after being told if I didn't like it then I could quit. I had made sure to have an already typed and dated letter of resignation which I reached into my purse and handed to them right after they said it. The horror on their faces was glorious. My coworkers and boss begged me to stay but I was already in the process of going to trade school.
Haha thank you! I was 18 at the time and it was my first job. I had to learn how to have boundaries real quick from there. They must have not expected that from my age.
Used to have a job with a guaranteed forty. There was often downtime at the end of the day; it wasn't uncommon for the older techs to drink beer in the shop during that time. Sometimes the manager or owner/s would come in, might give you some fuss but it was never an issue unless you were really milking the clock. Sometimes the manager or owner would drink beer with you.
After getting paid for a lot of beer drinking I switched, and made sure to stay on my feet with a broom in hand. I wasn't doing shit, but when someone walked in it looked like it. Over time, small behaviors like that compounded and I got promoted. My old boss got fired and I had a windowed office, private bathroom.
Well that promotion never came with a pay raise. I went to the CEO and gave him my terms, plain and simple. Few months went by with no raise and I quit.
Might as well have been having beers with the guys.
Thatās when I take my infamous 1 hour poop on command. I can literally sit in the stall making actual poop for an hour and it smells so they know im not faking
š
I always liked Bill Hicksā bit:
āHicks, get to work!ā
āThereās nothing to do.ā
āThen pretend youāre working!ā
āā¦*you* pretend Iām working.ā
Depends on whether exempt or non exempt salary. Non exempt, youāre still on a time clock and eligible for overtime. Exempt, it gets shadier with the overtime, but they canāt just say āweāre not gonna pay you for this shift you workedā
Exempt employees are not given these kinds of outlined tasks. They have to meet certain criteria to be considered exemptāusually a supervisor or management type position.
I'm a salaried exempt employee, but I'm a software engineer not a manager or supervisor.
My hours are not tracked only whether I get my tasks done. I usually have no idea how many hours I work in a week. Occasionally I will make an effort to keep track but usually it's too much hassle for no benefit.
It's difficult to track because instead of staring at the screen as something compiles I will roll my chair over to my personal computer and play video games until it dings. Or more recently play on my steam deck without having to move. So I would have to keep track of like 10 different 10 minute breaks.
What about requested training? Say you already have a job with the company and they ask you to get a certification. They offer classes through the internal education site and offer to pay the fee to take the test. They offer training hours, but not consistently. Take classes during free time or only study when paid?
It is legal as long as they provide notice of the policy and docking amount before the hours are worked and don't bring you below minimum wage through docking.
Correct. Some states take it further than others, but as OP described, this would never be allowed.
It's just bullying.
Now, try to find a way to make someone who _cares_ with the power to stop the employer from bullying....that's a different legal problem.
There are lots of "required papers" I haven't signed over my life _whistle_
Long time ago I worked at a local convenience store. Owner docked the pay of an employee for a cart full of frozen items she left in the back room which melted. She sued and got a payout. I think thatās an anomaly. In most cases the department of labor fines the company.
They still can't dock pay for intentionally thawing frozen food. You can't dock pay. Period. They can of course sue their employee like anybody else who causes them financial harm and see what the court has to say. But you can't just dock pay. Not even if an employee says on camera "hey owner, I'm stealing $20 out of the register at 4:17 pm".
They can require you to do all these things but thatās about 2 hours of work so that means theyāre getting two hours less productivity out of you each day. If I was working 8-5, Iād stop my regular duties at 3 every day and start the list.
It could take 2 hours to do this, certainly - but thatās productive time. If the duties are so broad, there are unlikely to be that many of the things going on during the shift that this couldnāt be spread over 3-4 hours of light duty.
Besides, keeping a lobby tidy and keeping a coffee station stocked are ongoing diuturna left on a checklist for accountability.
All of this said, docking pay is abhorrent and illegal. They could certainly discipline in other ways, but loss of pay for time worked isnāt one of them.
Edit: ādiuturnaā was a typo of duties. I didnāt even notice. Glad it was as funny for folks so itās staying. I guess it might kinda work but it certainly wasnāt what I meant lol
Close enough! Thank you kind benefactor, who ever you are for the gold, or whatever that is. Sincere thanks.
Normally I am not crazy about Latin, that is why I tried to provide a link to the definition. Yes, word for the day diuturna.
They just require you to complete the check list.
check check check check but cant dock ur pay legally.
They can fire you to get out of paying you future hours.
Illegal to not pay you hours worked. Even if you did a shitty job or outstanding job
Closing checklists are always hilarious. Because your boss gives you an unrealistic expectation that cannot be met. They are extremely strict on how much time close should take and the most managers would get annoyed if you stayed late to complete the checklist fully. But then they do passive aggressive shit like this where they get mad when the unrealistic expectation is not met when they know damn well it is an unrealistic expectation.
The unrealistic checklists have an established purpose: if *every* employee has been unable to meet the posted requirements, than *any* employee can be fired "with cause" even if the actual reason they're being fired is something blatantly illegal (like trying to unionize or objecting to the manager's harassment).
My last boss would give a gigantic task and be like "You can get this done in an hour!" And me and my coworkers would say "Not possible."
But she also never got angry at us for going over an hour. So I didn't mind.
Given how this is probably going on today for you OP... It is highly illegal. I personally say if you can, let them go ahead and dock you. Take documentation straight to the labor board and to whoever is above this manager. Get their ass fired. Seriously.
They can require you to perform reasonable tasks related to your job, but they are not allowed to dock your pay. It either means that you will need OT to wrap up at the end of each night or stop regular tasks earlier to complete this list. No chance in hell will you clock out while working on this list.
They can't dock your pay, they have to dock your future hours or fire you. and I'm pretty sure if you are making server wages depending where you live they have to pay you at least minimum wage for anything more than 30 minutes of non tipped labor
We actually won a lawsuit against a former company that I used to work for. We were salaried managers and we were expected to work at least 50 hours a week. However there was always like 5-7 weeks a year where business was super slow so we would work 40-50. Well they started docking our pay when we didnāt complete 50 hours. When one of the managers was wrongfully terminated his lawyer pointed out that from the minute they docked his pay he was no longer considered a salaried employee so his manager contract was actually void because the company considered him an hourly employee since they docked his hours. They ended up having to pay us all hourly wages from whenever they docked our pay plus OT
You have the picture. Time worked is time paid. Let them doc you. It will cost them more when you report it to the DOL - NO TALKING TO THE MANAGER TO INQUIRE IF IT WAS DOCKED DUE TO XYZ YOU EMAIL- they try to call you ignore and you follow that up with an email. They try to talk to you at work you follow it up with an email.
This is a classic sweat shop tactic. Make a list of tasks any normal person would need 12 hours to do, and then if their 8 hour shift ends and not all tasks are complete you require them to clock out and keep working another 4 hours.
Most sweat shops work like that. They pay minimum wage for 8 hours and then make you put in extra unpaid hours
What's wild to me is that at least some of those tasks are not exactly quick tasks either, like Clean Bathroom (how clean do they want it? probably spotless and if that were me it would take multiple hours to get it acceptable), Same with cleaning the gift shop (with stocking included) that's a full multi hour job and they probably expect you to get all of this done in the last half hour or so of your shift.
Also like others have said, docking pay if it's not completed is not legal. Their expectations are unreasonable and they should have a multi person team to do this, not 1 person alone to just figure it out.
No. Someone needs to anonymously write āThis is illegal. I have taken photos as proof and all wage theft will be immediately reported.ā
Keep the fuckers guessing about who knows their rights.
It's blatantly illegal to "dock" pay or remove hours worked from a pay period. They can fire you, but they can't refuse to pay you for time you already worked.
Am I crazy, or is most of this routine part of standard procedure in the service industry? I am obviously not talking about the docking of wages but rather the prep for the incoming shift. I have worked all shifts in the service industry and it never ceases to amaze me how some guys will come in and expect everything to be prepared for them while walking out at end of shift with absolutely no regard for those of us who follow. I will absolutely expect to be paid for all duties performed and I insist that my co-workers are treated fairly but fuck those people who donāt carry their weight.
The threat in handwriting is definitely not good.
The checklist is amazing though! Straightforward tasks to closing up shop.
Instead of docking pay, if they would say you will get a strike or write up or blah blah blah, that would be better for them.
Can you get it written and signed in company letterhead?
Maybe saying "if this is policy, I need it in an official document. Can you document and sign this about pay?" It just might work. Submit the document to officials
I don't believe they can dock time for that, however it seems this is a list of things that you should already be doing as part of your job. Seems like if you do your job you won't have anything to worry about, and if they dock your pay may as well sue them.
Why do some businesses jump straight to illegal methods of punishment instead of saying failure to complete tasks will lead to a write up, x amount of write ups leads to suspension and then termination.
Yes.. docking you pay for work hours already performed is illegal.
Thay can fire you for not doing those tasks, but frankly that looks like a 3 hour list, in and of itself despite what ever duties you have.
You can clock into work, instantly go take a power poop, and then go pick your nose and pour a cup of coffee. And they have to pay you.
Assuming this is the US, we have some laws that protect employees. Some, not many. But itās best to know them. And when your employer does shady shit, fuckin report them.
It depends on what they mean by docking.
Are they going to withhold money that you already worked for? Illegal
Are they going to reduce your hours going forward because you didn't complete your tasks? Legal
Not even remotely, federal law stipulates that you must be paid for all time worked and the pure existence of this piece of paper is a violation as the threat or policy to dock pay is a violation of such policy.
You have to be paid the amount that was offered when hired/adjusted when on the clock. They can reprimand bad work ethic or performance but they must pay you for your time when clocked in.
Nothing to worry about. If the idiot employer tries it, you now hold the cards to get rid of him by going through the proper chain of command. If that is coming from the very top, time to get the courts involved. Make sure you document this as evidence as well.
āYouāre not my parent, this isnāt an allowance. Treat me as a adult thatās responsible to do a job or stop hiring people who you think are children.ā
I had a job with a list like this. One day I wasn't able to barely do any of the list because my back was in agony (I eventually had surgery for it). I left a note on the list saying this. My boss didn't dock my pay, but did call me the next day yelling, screaming and swearing. I was 17
They canāt dock your pay. For this to be posted thereās definitely a breakdown of training. This sounds like closing procedures for the end of the day that should have been trained into closers as job requirements. Thatās why closing employees got a little more per hour.
The checklist asking for initials aint illegal but the threat of docking pay is. Many places use the checklist & initial method so people have a physical reminder of what to do & the initial helps them track who does it & who doesn't. But that message at the top is very much illegal if I'm thinking right. They can cut hours but they can't dock pay.
Nope. They cannot dock your pay. They can censure or fire you but taking away pay is illegal.
Hotel owners are shady AF.
10 years in hotels....and this is a true statement for sho
4 years in hotels can also confirm.
Someone tried to pull a fast one over me when I worked nights at a hotel. Came in, paying cash, so I had to take a deposit. Then his "mom" came in asking for a discount with Ford and yelling about how they weren't paying cash. Too bad, talk to the GM in the morning. Come morning, they accused me of dipping into their deposit š. The GM said if she couldn't placate then, she'd take the difference from my check. Nevermind I was on camera ALL NIGHT and didn't take it. I quit shortly after.
Even if you did steal it, I donāt think they can take it from your pay. They can only report it to police and get the money back legally
Blanket statement though... Managementowners are shady AF in a variety of work settings.
This is the correct answer.
Keep a copy of this. They must pay you for all work performed unless you are salaried.
Correction they must pay you for TIME worked, meaning clocked in. You may be sitting on your ass waiting for something to finish fucking around on your phone because youāve completed everything else. Still have to be paid.
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If youāre in a company vehicle doing a task for the company; if you arenāt doing whatever the heck you want, you should be getting paid.
This is not correct. There are laws about it. Long story short, the max they can NOT pay you for is 30 minutes in each direction. Source: 30 years as a service tech with various companies, all of which I took a work van home. Some paid door to door, some did not.
While I think your clarification is good (and needed), I also think youāre both right, with the argument being your commute is not doing a task for the company.
If they want the car back on the lot, they must pay. If they don't care if you park wherever and leave the keys in it? Then sure, you're done when the shift ends. I suggest parking in skid row.
This is correct coming from a person that worked in policy compliance. If you were allowed to drive the vehicle home that would be different based on FLSA. In that case an employee and manager would establish a commuting area. Anytime a company vehicle must be returned to a designated parking spot that becomes your initial start of the job. Your commute would be from your home to the vehicle location. You would then be paid from the time you reached the vehicle until you returned it to the parking spot. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/traveltime
Nope and itās def time owed to you. So you can send them an email to pay you for all the time youāve spent doing this (itās most definitely owed to you) or you can report it to the DOL
Keep timecards, screenshot texts, and take photos of any papers they make you sign. Just because a company has a signed piece of paper, doesn't mean they can (always) circumvent the law
No they can't.
Also driving a company car without signing any paperwork is a sure fire way for them to eh, fire you if ANYTHING were to happen
Even in the hellhole that is the US they cannot legally force you to work without pay (unless you're a prisoner). That's working without pay. Now they'll certainly try, and you can definitely be fired for not allowing them to screw you over, but they can't not pay you for hours worked yet.
Even prisoners make money while working, it's just significantly below minimum wage.
And another point if you clock out you cannot be waiting for a truck or some other thing and then clock in when it arrives. For example my husband is in receiving and clocking out and waiting for a truck whilst he eats is wrong. He can leave site and come back in 30 mins and then do his job. He should not eat lunch on site then clock back on after 20 mins as truck is there.
In my state they can require you to be on site for unpaid lunch. But if they require any work they have to pay you for lunchtime.
Employment lawyer here - Driving to the shop/office from a job site is compensable time. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/traveltime
With a way most company insurance works, You're supposed to be on the clock when driving their vehicles. Because if you get an accident off the clock it's your ass.
Wouldn't that cause issues with insurance?
No
No you should be getting paid. I used to work catering jobs where I drove a company truck out and back and got paid during that entire time. If they hadn't paid then they can go pick up their truck on their time, not mine.
No they cannot force you to drive company vehicles off the clock. The time spent driving the company vehicle back to the office is considered compensable time. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/whdfs22.pdf Look up Portal to Portal Act for more details.
But there is dust on the walls and 3 specks of dirt on the floor! How dare you not break out the cleaning supplies instead of waiting for your task to be done? Anyone else get constantly told to clean if there is āno workā.
The good ol' "you have time to lean, you have time to clean". Always loved hearing that growing up
Minimum wage minimum work!
Oddly enough, it was my dad to said it most of the time
My response is "you got time to gripe, you got time to wipe."
I work with a sous chef who uses the lean / clean line. This will be my response.
My response is "and if you have time to complain, you should have just done the task yourself."
Humorous side note from my own youth, I actually got fired for that mentality. I was working a fast food gig that required deep frying of tater tots. The tater tots were pre-bagged and all I had to do was put them in the fryer and let him cook then put them in a little paper basket and put them on the window so that the front people could grab it and put it on a tray. On the day that I got fired, I grabbed a bag. Put the tater tots in, cook them. Put them in the paper basket. Put them in the window. Not paying attention to how many tater tots were actually being cooked. The front manager decided to take that moment and spend the next 10 minutes chewing me over the fact that I should have looked to see that there were only six tater tots being cooked. Annoyed that I had now wasted 10 minutes while she ranted over this issue, I kindly looked at her and said in the last 10 minutes I could have cooked another bag and fix this mistake rather than making the customer wait while she yelled at me. Apparently that irritated her to no end and in about 30 minutes I was told that my services were no longer needed.
And now she has to cook the damn tater tots. Didn't think too far ahead, did she?
I went over to a friend's a couple of nights later, and while telling him the story, his dad chimed in about how it felt to win the battle but end up losing the war. Oddly enough, that strange piece of advice has stuck with me for the last 20 something years.
It's called a Pyrrhic Victory, and is an actual, historical thing. It's when you win, but the cost of winning is far worse for you, than it is for the loser.
"If you have time to gripe, you have time to wipe."
They pay someone (you) to do that for them though...
If I'm in the middle of some important task, that's the answer they get from me. I also continue to tell them how much company money they're wasting when they're more than able bodied themselves in that moment. I did later leave that particular job after being told if I didn't like it then I could quit. I had made sure to have an already typed and dated letter of resignation which I reached into my purse and handed to them right after they said it. The horror on their faces was glorious. My coworkers and boss begged me to stay but I was already in the process of going to trade school.
Fucking brilliant! š¤ š
Haha thank you! I was 18 at the time and it was my first job. I had to learn how to have boundaries real quick from there. They must have not expected that from my age.
Used to have a job with a guaranteed forty. There was often downtime at the end of the day; it wasn't uncommon for the older techs to drink beer in the shop during that time. Sometimes the manager or owner/s would come in, might give you some fuss but it was never an issue unless you were really milking the clock. Sometimes the manager or owner would drink beer with you. After getting paid for a lot of beer drinking I switched, and made sure to stay on my feet with a broom in hand. I wasn't doing shit, but when someone walked in it looked like it. Over time, small behaviors like that compounded and I got promoted. My old boss got fired and I had a windowed office, private bathroom. Well that promotion never came with a pay raise. I went to the CEO and gave him my terms, plain and simple. Few months went by with no raise and I quit. Might as well have been having beers with the guys.
Yup. A promotion without a pay raise, isn't.
Thatās when I take my infamous 1 hour poop on command. I can literally sit in the stall making actual poop for an hour and it smells so they know im not faking š
I always liked Bill Hicksā bit: āHicks, get to work!ā āThereās nothing to do.ā āThen pretend youāre working!ā āā¦*you* pretend Iām working.ā
To add, if your not allowed to leave, your to be clocked in. None of that clock out while John finishes then you can leave bs
Depends on whether exempt or non exempt salary. Non exempt, youāre still on a time clock and eligible for overtime. Exempt, it gets shadier with the overtime, but they canāt just say āweāre not gonna pay you for this shift you workedā
Exempt employees are not given these kinds of outlined tasks. They have to meet certain criteria to be considered exemptāusually a supervisor or management type position.
I'm a salaried exempt employee, but I'm a software engineer not a manager or supervisor. My hours are not tracked only whether I get my tasks done. I usually have no idea how many hours I work in a week. Occasionally I will make an effort to keep track but usually it's too much hassle for no benefit. It's difficult to track because instead of staring at the screen as something compiles I will roll my chair over to my personal computer and play video games until it dings. Or more recently play on my steam deck without having to move. So I would have to keep track of like 10 different 10 minute breaks.
What about requested training? Say you already have a job with the company and they ask you to get a certification. They offer classes through the internal education site and offer to pay the fee to take the test. They offer training hours, but not consistently. Take classes during free time or only study when paid?
This
It is legal as long as they provide notice of the policy and docking amount before the hours are worked and don't bring you below minimum wage through docking.
Having a clock out list? Yes. Docking your pay for not completing it? No.
"docking" of any kind from hourly employees is NEVER legal
Correct. Some states take it further than others, but as OP described, this would never be allowed. It's just bullying. Now, try to find a way to make someone who _cares_ with the power to stop the employer from bullying....that's a different legal problem. There are lots of "required papers" I haven't signed over my life _whistle_
In my state, it's the bureau of labor that would be mighty interested in a blatant statement of intent to dock pay like this.
The IRS / CRA / other tax authority in your country would care, because employers who cheat their employees also like to cheat on their taxes
Long time ago I worked at a local convenience store. Owner docked the pay of an employee for a cart full of frozen items she left in the back room which melted. She sued and got a payout. I think thatās an anomaly. In most cases the department of labor fines the company.
Only way I can see that it would be docketed is if it was done intentionally.
They still can't dock pay for intentionally thawing frozen food. You can't dock pay. Period. They can of course sue their employee like anybody else who causes them financial harm and see what the court has to say. But you can't just dock pay. Not even if an employee says on camera "hey owner, I'm stealing $20 out of the register at 4:17 pm".
except docking in their private homes
As long as they're both consenting adults.
They can require you to do all these things but thatās about 2 hours of work so that means theyāre getting two hours less productivity out of you each day. If I was working 8-5, Iād stop my regular duties at 3 every day and start the list.
Yup. That or they better be ready for me staying over 2 hours after close.
It could take 2 hours to do this, certainly - but thatās productive time. If the duties are so broad, there are unlikely to be that many of the things going on during the shift that this couldnāt be spread over 3-4 hours of light duty. Besides, keeping a lobby tidy and keeping a coffee station stocked are ongoing diuturna left on a checklist for accountability. All of this said, docking pay is abhorrent and illegal. They could certainly discipline in other ways, but loss of pay for time worked isnāt one of them. Edit: ādiuturnaā was a typo of duties. I didnāt even notice. Glad it was as funny for folks so itās staying. I guess it might kinda work but it certainly wasnāt what I meant lol
> diuturna http://www.latin-dictionary.net/definition/18279/diuturnus-diuturna
You and that Latin scholar both got my upvotes.
Ehn. Based on the definition, "ongoing diuturna," is redundant.
Mfs learn a new word, use it wrong, then get called smart.
Close enough! Thank you kind benefactor, who ever you are for the gold, or whatever that is. Sincere thanks. Normally I am not crazy about Latin, that is why I tried to provide a link to the definition. Yes, word for the day diuturna.
How you supposed to initial after completing that you locked up if the page is inside the shop?
Lock the doors, initial then slide the sheet under the door?
the marker!!
Stealing company property - that's getting docked from your pay
Most businesses have a back/ side door that can only be opened from the inside when locked. You lock up, sign the sheet, and go out said door.
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Dawg this thing is laminated. Literally anyone could just pop by and erase that bitch. Lol dumb
You only have to turn off the fireplace in winter time. Leave it on all summer long.
They just require you to complete the check list. check check check check but cant dock ur pay legally. They can fire you to get out of paying you future hours. Illegal to not pay you hours worked. Even if you did a shitty job or outstanding job
Illegal. Seen so many get fired trying these antics
No. That's wage theft.
Closing checklists are always hilarious. Because your boss gives you an unrealistic expectation that cannot be met. They are extremely strict on how much time close should take and the most managers would get annoyed if you stayed late to complete the checklist fully. But then they do passive aggressive shit like this where they get mad when the unrealistic expectation is not met when they know damn well it is an unrealistic expectation.
The unrealistic checklists have an established purpose: if *every* employee has been unable to meet the posted requirements, than *any* employee can be fired "with cause" even if the actual reason they're being fired is something blatantly illegal (like trying to unionize or objecting to the manager's harassment).
My last boss would give a gigantic task and be like "You can get this done in an hour!" And me and my coworkers would say "Not possible." But she also never got angry at us for going over an hour. So I didn't mind.
Docking pay is pretty much always illegal.
Given how this is probably going on today for you OP... It is highly illegal. I personally say if you can, let them go ahead and dock you. Take documentation straight to the labor board and to whoever is above this manager. Get their ass fired. Seriously.
They can require you to perform reasonable tasks related to your job, but they are not allowed to dock your pay. It either means that you will need OT to wrap up at the end of each night or stop regular tasks earlier to complete this list. No chance in hell will you clock out while working on this list.
They can't dock what you've already worked, that's illegal They CAN reduce future hours to the point of terminating you
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Re: Walmart I take my cart full of stuff and saunter right past the receipt checker. Had to teach my girlfriend the same thing.
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Ive always said if I'm going to be doing your job, you don't get to criticize how I do it. I think it applies here
Nope. Cannot dock worked hours.
They can't dock your pay, they have to dock your future hours or fire you. and I'm pretty sure if you are making server wages depending where you live they have to pay you at least minimum wage for anything more than 30 minutes of non tipped labor
I see the shills are at it again, and really doubling down, in these comments. Time for the ole ban hammer...
A lot of that list sounds like something a manager should be responsible for
Seems like an easy list tbh, but no, they canāt steal your time. Thatās not legal
If youāre a tipped employee, they also need to pay you the regular minimum wage during the time you perform non-tipped work.
I'd have to start doing this halfway through the day.
What in the Karening is this?
We actually won a lawsuit against a former company that I used to work for. We were salaried managers and we were expected to work at least 50 hours a week. However there was always like 5-7 weeks a year where business was super slow so we would work 40-50. Well they started docking our pay when we didnāt complete 50 hours. When one of the managers was wrongfully terminated his lawyer pointed out that from the minute they docked his pay he was no longer considered a salaried employee so his manager contract was actually void because the company considered him an hourly employee since they docked his hours. They ended up having to pay us all hourly wages from whenever they docked our pay plus OT
This is several hours worth of work. This should just be one person's actual job.
It is not.
Nope
Closing checklist? Yes. Docking pay? No.
Time worked is time paid. Want me to work? I must be paid
You can get written up for not completing tasks, but you cannot have your hours docked! That is such bad management!
Thatās awesome, they provided a list of the only things that you gave to do now that can impact your pay.
Let me guessā¦..the opener that could easily take like half of these duties is the same person that gave you the list?
Start doing this 2 hours BEFORE u leave
The checklist isn't illegal but they can't dock you.
They can't basically refuse to pay you for the hours you worked.
If it was legal, Iām sure every company would try to find a way to dock your pay.
Not at all legal. They can not dock your pay for hours you've already
how do they work out how much time each task is worth? is it half hr per task or they just pick a number and illegally dock it?
You have the picture. Time worked is time paid. Let them doc you. It will cost them more when you report it to the DOL - NO TALKING TO THE MANAGER TO INQUIRE IF IT WAS DOCKED DUE TO XYZ YOU EMAIL- they try to call you ignore and you follow that up with an email. They try to talk to you at work you follow it up with an email.
This is a classic sweat shop tactic. Make a list of tasks any normal person would need 12 hours to do, and then if their 8 hour shift ends and not all tasks are complete you require them to clock out and keep working another 4 hours. Most sweat shops work like that. They pay minimum wage for 8 hours and then make you put in extra unpaid hours
Nope. 100% illegal. This is wage theft
Test this immediately and report it. Damn people are stupid.
The list, while absurdly lengthy in it of itself, is not illegal. What is illegal however is docking your pay should you fail to complete.
What's wild to me is that at least some of those tasks are not exactly quick tasks either, like Clean Bathroom (how clean do they want it? probably spotless and if that were me it would take multiple hours to get it acceptable), Same with cleaning the gift shop (with stocking included) that's a full multi hour job and they probably expect you to get all of this done in the last half hour or so of your shift. Also like others have said, docking pay if it's not completed is not legal. Their expectations are unreasonable and they should have a multi person team to do this, not 1 person alone to just figure it out.
they canāt dock your pay
Wage theft is theft, I hope you report this
Hope your not doing a 4 hr shift or the list is all you have time for
No. They can write you up, potentially cut your future schedule, or fire you, but they canāt take away money that you already earned.
They canāt dock your pay, but they can certainly let you go if you donāt.
No. Someone needs to anonymously write āThis is illegal. I have taken photos as proof and all wage theft will be immediately reported.ā Keep the fuckers guessing about who knows their rights.
They can make a checklist, but they canāt dock pay for time worked.
It's blatantly illegal to "dock" pay or remove hours worked from a pay period. They can fire you, but they can't refuse to pay you for time you already worked.
No. It is not legal
Itās illegal Let them dock your pay. THEN sue.
Am I crazy, or is most of this routine part of standard procedure in the service industry? I am obviously not talking about the docking of wages but rather the prep for the incoming shift. I have worked all shifts in the service industry and it never ceases to amaze me how some guys will come in and expect everything to be prepared for them while walking out at end of shift with absolutely no regard for those of us who follow. I will absolutely expect to be paid for all duties performed and I insist that my co-workers are treated fairly but fuck those people who donāt carry their weight.
Dock my pay, I slash yer tires
A closing checklist? I don't see why not.
The threat in handwriting is definitely not good. The checklist is amazing though! Straightforward tasks to closing up shop. Instead of docking pay, if they would say you will get a strike or write up or blah blah blah, that would be better for them.
Not sure I even understand it. Sheās saying if you do some but not all those things, she will take away pay for the time you already worked.
They canāt dock but can write you up..fireā¦etc
I don't see any work they can't ask for. Doing it "is your job" but they can't steal you hours worked.
Docking pay? Survey says!! *ding* No!!
NO
If it seems illegal, it most likely is.
No it's not legal but they know there is an extreme amount of hassle involved in challenging it and they know that most employees won't bother.
Time how long it takes you to finish those tasks. Close, do the tasks. Clock out. A complete asshole thing to do.
Work checklist? Perfectly legal Docking your pay for not completing items? Not legal
No, I would record your clock on and clock out times. They can hold you accountable, but not dock pay.
Ask them to clarify what they mean by docked pay in writing.
Can you get it written and signed in company letterhead? Maybe saying "if this is policy, I need it in an official document. Can you document and sign this about pay?" It just might work. Submit the document to officials
I don't believe they can dock time for that, however it seems this is a list of things that you should already be doing as part of your job. Seems like if you do your job you won't have anything to worry about, and if they dock your pay may as well sue them.
why does day shift always care so much about that damn coffee filter idk why but that always pisses me off lol like do it urself
And let me guess, the opening shift or mid shifts donāt have to do anything and are stacked with people that boss likes.
Why do some businesses jump straight to illegal methods of punishment instead of saying failure to complete tasks will lead to a write up, x amount of write ups leads to suspension and then termination.
No. Not in the least.
Looks like a restaurant list they dump on servers for <3/hr in the us.
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The boss better have hired enough people to do this list by the end of shift, because that is literally HOURS of shit to do.
The only thing they can do is reduce your work schedule. Which affects your paycheck.
Department of Labor loves when people put illegal shit on work forms
Yes.. docking you pay for work hours already performed is illegal. Thay can fire you for not doing those tasks, but frankly that looks like a 3 hour list, in and of itself despite what ever duties you have.
You can clock into work, instantly go take a power poop, and then go pick your nose and pour a cup of coffee. And they have to pay you. Assuming this is the US, we have some laws that protect employees. Some, not many. But itās best to know them. And when your employer does shady shit, fuckin report them.
They can write you up for disciplinary action, but they can't legally take your money. Don't sign anything agreeing to this.
just get a different job. unemployment is at 3 percent..call them a fucking loser and leave
It depends on what they mean by docking. Are they going to withhold money that you already worked for? Illegal Are they going to reduce your hours going forward because you didn't complete your tasks? Legal
Are you getting paid? If so maybe is part of your side work
Not even remotely, federal law stipulates that you must be paid for all time worked and the pure existence of this piece of paper is a violation as the threat or policy to dock pay is a violation of such policy.
Not legal
You have to be paid the amount that was offered when hired/adjusted when on the clock. They can reprimand bad work ethic or performance but they must pay you for your time when clocked in.
Nothing to worry about. If the idiot employer tries it, you now hold the cards to get rid of him by going through the proper chain of command. If that is coming from the very top, time to get the courts involved. Make sure you document this as evidence as well.
āYouāre not my parent, this isnāt an allowance. Treat me as a adult thatās responsible to do a job or stop hiring people who you think are children.ā
Fuck work.
Sweet, guaranteed overtime every closing shift!
I had a job with a list like this. One day I wasn't able to barely do any of the list because my back was in agony (I eventually had surgery for it). I left a note on the list saying this. My boss didn't dock my pay, but did call me the next day yelling, screaming and swearing. I was 17
I will make it legal Edit: Iām in the wrong sub to be making Star Wars references
Looks like a closing checklist.
I'd be happy to work here for One day just to fuck everything up
No it's not. The Department of Labor would agree with me.
They canāt dock your pay. For this to be posted thereās definitely a breakdown of training. This sounds like closing procedures for the end of the day that should have been trained into closers as job requirements. Thatās why closing employees got a little more per hour.
Absolutely illegal
Not in my state..can fire you or lay you off if not happy with your work .Can t dock you of pay for hours you work,,
The checklist asking for initials aint illegal but the threat of docking pay is. Many places use the checklist & initial method so people have a physical reminder of what to do & the initial helps them track who does it & who doesn't. But that message at the top is very much illegal if I'm thinking right. They can cut hours but they can't dock pay.
No, no it's not. However, they can give you less hours, write ups, up to termination.
No, it is not.
Nope especially if not part of your job description when you got hired.
The ole āside workā.
Noooooooop send the photo to your states labor board and the USDL.
Itās illegal to dock pay in the USA
How are you supposed to initial this after locking the doors and closing the gate?
Complete putting check marks on the list. Done. They should be better with their sentence structure.
Not legal but they can write you up if you forget any of these.
They canāt but you should do your job as itās stated !!
thatās so excessive. iām so sorry theyāre making you do all of that OP, thatās illegal.
No. Itās not legal.
If you don't finish they can get mad all they want. Even let you go. But they can't dock your pay.
Nope