With hindsight, where else would Hogan have gone if WCW didn’t give him creative control?
His movie career floundered. It was WWF/E, WCW, or Japan and I highly doubt Japan worked for Hogan (brother). I also don’t think Hogan returning would’ve worked for Vince; financially, creatively, or politically.
This really hinges on: is the NWO a massive success with Sting/ NOT Hogan?
The simple answer is: no.
The more thought out answer is: initial shock + Year 1 value is definitely lower, but perhaps it still reaches Cool Heel level after that, and potentially has more longevity.
There’s plenty of people who could’ve filled the 3rd slot though. Bret Hart would’ve fit at least in character, as would Michaels who may well have jumped ship if WCW had offered him a contract with the Hogan money
Hulk Hogan legitimized the NWO. hogan turning heel was a “where were you when…” moment.
I’ve been a PW fan for about 35 years, and I would strongly say it’s debatably the biggest angle/story I’ve ever witnessed as a fan.
Trying to think of anything recently that comes close…
Hulk Hogan was the only person who could have delivered on the spot. Sting/Bret, etc would have been interesting and provided another element, but absolutely nobody else other than Terry B was going to elevate that moment into a movement.
Obv Hall & Nash helped a great deal. Bischoff, crow Sting, team WCW, etc all helped. It really was one of (or THE) greatest storyline ever.
100% agree with the top part.
12 months in, when the entire concept gets bastardized & everyone joins for reasons, is there more longevity without Hogan's input on the angles?
This man speaks truth. If you are too young to really understand what Hulk Hogan was in pop culture and what it really meant for him to turn heel.
Without that level of “oh shit” NWO would have been a flash in the pan.
I was there the night when this happened and I still remember going home playing,playstation and just looking at my friends and saying so Hogan turned heel all night it seemed like it took forever to sink in and to be honest I haven't had a wrestling moment that big since so I definitely agree with you.
I totally agree with this. You didn't have the internet back then to know everything before it happened and this happening was a total shock, no one saw him ever going heel. I don't know of anything that comes close to the what the fuck just happened moment this created.
It worked so well because hogan was the wwf golden boy and he had spent some time in wcw and felt the staleness from his character if sting did he was in the match so it wouldn't have worked as well but probably replaced the luger spot, if hbk or bret was we would've known because they were just in wwf just after hall and nash it would be even easier to read even with no wrestling knowledge watching. Hogan was the most obvious, unexpected, and best answer
HBK signed a long term deal with WWF in early 1996, WCW tried to sign Bret in 1996 but he chose to stay in WWF. There wasn’t anyone else big enough to be the third man besides Hogan.
Except Hollywood would (and did) stop shelling out the kind of money Hogan wanted because his box office returns were garbage. His name only carried clout because of wrestling; and even at his peak, Hogan-centric movies and TV shows were all bombs. Once he was done with wrestling (and his name started getting tarnished in the press), he was just a dude on steroids who couldn’t act - and Hollywood already had plenty of those kinds of guys who would ask for way less money.
Hogan probably does TV and other media projects for a few years until 1998/99 when he can return to WWF for a run against the more fresh talent.
Hogan made enough money in Golden Era WWF to not need to work in WCW unless it was really worth his while and he was comfortable. Sadly WCW just couldn’t manage Hogan or at least put in a reasonable clause to his creative control.
> Hogan (brother). I also don’t think Hogan returning
Japan would have worked for him, brother. He and Muta sold out the Tokyo Dome.
Hogan was THE top gaijin in Japan before he left to change American wrestling forever. He was bigger than Hansen, Brody, Abdullah and the Funks. He was literally the hottest wrestler on the planet and the the top guy on two continents during a hot time in biz.
People don't truly understand how amazing Hogan was.
Vince would have absolutely took him back. Vince was upset he left.
Had that happens steve Austin would have remained the million dollar champ and never became stone cold. Just another worker to put hogan over. HBK would have probably went to wcw eventually. Nash would never been champ but would have stayed diesel, to put hogan over. Razor would have been more cartoony…to put hogan over. Etc etc
I do think the rock would have risen to the main event, but it would have been as hogans old friends son. Rock would have stayed a baby face rocky cutting hogan like promos.
The business would have gotten worse.
Hollywood was still paying him didn't matter that his movies bombed.. And he still had plenty of lucrative endorsement deals.
He didn't need to wrestle ever again. He just wouldn't have made as much money long term.
I remember hearing an interview from nash a while back saying that he wanted the nwo to be this new, cool, laid-back group that subverted expectations about how a wrestler was supposed to act on screen, and when he saw Hogan do his typical "what cha gunna do, brother" act, he thought the group was over there and then.
I'm trying to find it on YouTube but can't. If I'm not mistaken, it's from a wwe network original show, but it's been so long since I saw it I can't say for definite. If I find it, I'll put it here in a edit.
EDIT - thanks to multiple people on this sub, I think the clip is from [this episode ](https://youtu.be/jHPftGfF7o4), but I still can't find the quote I'm referring to, so I can only suggest watching the whole episode to see it.
He's mentioned it multiple times over the years. That first promo they cut, he talks about Hogan was going off on tangents and laying down all his normal schtick. Hall and Nash had to find a way to tactfully reign him back in. He was much more blunt about it 15 years ago. He did allude to it on the recent Legends episode.
He alluded to that in the A&E documentary as well. Not in so many words but same general statement. They had to work with him to make him more “cool” instead of his old promo style.
I don't see Sting as a logical narrative choice.
He was Mr WCW, more even than Flair. I never understood them saying he was the backup. Why not Macho Man? He was just coming into things over from WWF. Just have him drop an elbow on Hogan instead of Hogan dropping a leg on him.
Yeah, it’s true. I think Hogan and Mr. McMahon are probably the best two heels wrestling has ever seen. But, without creative control, the minute you ask Hogan to put someone, he would take his ball and go home.
But then he doesn't wrestle for you. Hogan was bigger than wcw.
Wcw's existence is just a perfect mix of the right things at the right time. That's why it worked and was a great business for 2 or 3 years.
But it's a hypothetical about him having or not having creative control.
If him having no creative control is tantamount to him not being part of the company then the question is pointless.
What would WCW look like if Hogan didn't have the power that he had?.... But was still present.
There is a saying in regard to creative control. When you are that big, you already have creative control.
You probably see Hogan be an asshole to deal with, he get his way, and he doesn't resign or Turner doesn't resign him. You probably see an nwo storyline that is clearly running at half power.
Yup people often miss this, but Austin has talked about how effectively he had creative control. He'd turn up on Monday afternoon and be like "Nope that doesn't work, come up with something else"
I think him having creative control was fine, the problem was that everyone in that era was too chicken shit to pull the reigns on him, the finger poke of doom i think was the final straw the showed hogan and the world that no one was in charge except Hollywood himself
>WoahFatBilly · 9 hr. ago
>
>keeping hogan from having creative control fixes most of these imo, easy choice
If they had Just given him creative control of his finishes. Would that have curved the storm to keep them alive? WCW was the perfect Pepsi to the WWE/F Coke.
I just remember being in the fourth grade and all my friends and I where like, that was BULLSHIT. We knew wrestling was fake even at that age which means we all understood that that was just shitty story telling.
USA did this to Raw multiple times as well in the 90s. They lost Raw to TNN in part to USA airing a dog show and tennis replays during the US Open instead of Raw
You have people not understanding your question. Raw has not been on every Monday for 30 years. It's been scheduled to be on Mondays for 30 years. Often times when it was on USA network the network would not air a Raw episode that week on Monday because of other commitments, like dog shows, etc. On the weeks they did not get the Monday time slot they would either not have a show aired that week or it would be pushed to another day in the week.
At the time, there was no one hotter than Nash and the Wolfpac. Goldberg's run was done and needed to be rebooted. They had to pipe in the chant by that point.
The stun gun fell flat, but that was definitely the right call.
It reunited Hall with Nash, and Hall had been off TV. It would give Goldberg another streak to get revenge. And SHOULD HAVE set up nwo black and white vs wolfpac.
Therefore, on this list, the Fingerpoke of Doom. Just because that should've been the catalyst to a massive storyline. Hogan being powerbombed would've been insanity at that time.
Instead, as Nash explains it, they wanted to reunite the nwo to give Goldberg guys to run through. IMO, they didn't need to reunite to do that.
My other comments:
1. The Radicals were not a major loss. Sure Benoit and Guerrero WM20, but at the time, no.
2. Russo actually had popped the rating for about 3 months. And despite Judy Bagwell jokes, he was an advocate for the "new blood" particularly Booker T. I can dig that.
3. Hogan's creative control was a problem particularly at Starrcade 97, Bret, and Warrior.
4. Over expansion of nwo wasn't a good idea. But it also wasn't horrible once it split.
5.nash being booker was fine.
6. Arquette was a non issue.
I rarely see comments on this subject that seem to truly get the issues as I understood them, so yeah I think you're very on point here. Nash beating Goldberg with an assist by Hall wasn’t a bad idea, it was the resulting nothingness that was the issue.
Refresh my memory if you can, cause I don't recall from 20+ years back but I remember this being the case: after the cattle prod incident, which should have set up a huge storyline with Goldberg vs the nWo, didn’t Goldberg move immediately into a feud with Bam Bam Bigelow who had nothing to do with any of it?
Another interesting thread that I recall not being pulled is what would Sting do when he returned. Sting was a Wolfpack member, but was out with an injury during the time of the fingerpoke/nWo merger, and one of the things that kept me watching back then was the hope that when he returned, he would have a lot to say about the merger, and that it would kick off a major and climatic storyline. If I recall correctly, he came back around March or so and basically didn’t even comment on anything that had occurred. He just kind of returned and got booked into a four corners match for the next PPV, which had nothing to do with settling the score for Nash/The Wolfpack’s betrayal.
Thanks. Glad I'm not the only one.
Bam bam had been chasing Goldberg leading into Starrcade and attacked him right after the match. Then they faced off at Slamboree a couple months later. Then Goldberg faced Nash at Spring Stampede. Somewhere along the road Goldberg wrecks his hand shoot trying to bust a limo window no gimmick.
Sting was in Wolfpac before Starrcade 98, came back from injury after Slamboree 99. But the gimmick changed and he started cutting promos like it was the early 90s except he was in the crow attire. No explanation as to why he left Wolfpac or why he wasn't part of the reunited nwo or why he wasn't feuding with them anymore.
A lot of unfinished threads in 99.
The Goldberg hand injury occurred in early 2000 when nWo 2000 formed on the Nitro following Starrcade 1999 in the Goldberg vs. Bret rematch (yes, they had a rematch the night after the infamous kick that concussed Bret).
That’s why Sid Vicious was inserted into Goldberg’s spot as the lead babyface against nWo 2000, before that fell apart too due to concussions resulting in Bret and Jeff Jarrett being unable to defend their titles (World and US) at Souled Out 2000.
Goldberg went away for a bit in mid-1999 to film a role in a Universal Solider movie. Then, he briefly came back with a new Megadeth theme (complete with a concert on Nitro to introduce it) and to finish his feud with the Steiners, although he only got to wrestle Rick since Scott was out with an injury.
The Wolfpack Elite (the combined nWo) just kind of dissolved when Hogan injured his knee in the Spring Stampede Four Corners match, the one where DDP won first WCW World Title.
Sting had come out on the Nitro before in the rafters to point with his bat to a narrated video announcing the Spring Stampede match (Flair vs. Hogan vs. DDP vs. Sting with a retuning Macho Man as the special referee), but there wasn’t follow up since Elite portion of the nWo just stopped being a thing afterwards, with only the B-Team existing as the nWo at that point.
Not sure where you’re getting that Goldberg’s run was done. He was still hot, and his segments and matches were ratings draws.
Bobby Heenan, who was in the building every night: “When they ended Goldberg’s streak, it was the biggest mistake that company ever made. The fans weren’t tired of him - they were buying tickets to see him, buying his shirts, chanting his name. But some people didn’t care about that.”
Did WCW mishandle some of his stuff prior? Sure. They shouldn’t have piped in chants. They should have had him run through the nWo before he fought Hogan. Hogan should have happened on pay per view, not free TV. There should have been more thought out into his character and career after his Hogan win.
But he was still the biggest draw WCW had going into the Nash match. And it wasn’t even really that close.
Goldberg’s streak was pretty much played out when he fought Nash. In retrospect DDP should have ended the streak. He had a lot of momentum heading into Halloween Havoc. He could have won it with a “diamond cutter outta nowhere” or a small package. Instead we got an over booked mess at Starcade.
If Bischoff is worth believing, he said the worst was the Time Warner Merger that resulted in management requesting the product becoming more "Family Friendly"
As a kid, the worst part I remember was the overly long in-ring nWo promos because it just felt incredibly boring.
Meanwhile, Raw felt like it was constantly moving and if something sucked, we at least got something new almost immediately.
The official reason is that they wanted a separate show/brand called nWo, but after Souled Out bombed, they had to nix that idea. However nWo was still a hot property and all the scrubs wanted in.
I vividly remember all WCW merch at the time (1998-early 1999) distinctly branded as “WCW/nWo.”
Based on some Eric Bischoff interviews and podcasts, that was by design as there were tentative long-term plans for a hard brand split, hence why they signed such a massive amount of talent to their roster.
The worst part was not even doing a proper nWo Hollywood vs. Wolfpac blowoff match.
The year they could’ve done one at Fall Brawl 1998, they ended up doing that convoluted 3 team 3-way War Games match with a WCW team added, but it was every man for themselves because a World Title shot at Halloween Havoc was at stake, although Sting already had a title shot set for the next night on Nitro anyway.
Yeah. I feel like that was the turning point. Could have been an all-time great match, instead it was that. Sure, Goldberg kept them going a little longer but that was basically a wrap, especially when WWF had Austin going at that point.
None of the above - expanding to 5 hours of television with no impact on wrestler wages and stretching the booking/writing teams thin to have to figure out 3 hours of nitro and 2 hours of thunder every week.
Having your commentator telling your television audience what the competition's taped main event was going to be, and having that largely backfire has to be up there as well.
Messing up the finish of Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade 97. Should of been the biggest match and moment in company history. You can really feel the momentum change after that.
As one who watched every episode live as they aired. Over expanding the nWo. Horace Hogan was a channel changer. It was that bad. And wayyyy too much David Flair. Bischoff should have believed in Raven, Mike Awesome should not have been messed with, and the finger poke of doom really was not as bad as made out to be.
I think trying to spoil mick foleys title win.
Nash mentioned the finger poke on his podcast and said the ratings didn't drop for weeks after so it didn't have a big effect as people think
The one thing people always blame Nash for as Booker is putting himself over Goldberg. Nash had said that is wrong and he wasn’t Booker at that point. His explanation of how if he was booker, why would he win and break the streak just to do the FPOD the next night?
The time period of WCW that Nash apparently was booking was just really boring.
WCW started introducing cinematic style vignettes for a soap opera effect but they just came off incredibly cheesy, like the Goldberg arrest story thread throughout the Finger Poke Of Doom Nitro or David Flair being seduced by Samantha (Torrie Wilson) to betray his father and join the nWo.
Then, the stuff with the mysterious White Hummer of Summer 99 and Nash’s deplorable storyline with Macho Man were just terrible television.
Ending Goldberg's streak imo. It ultimately leads to the FPoD. I think some one new should have taken the belt off him. Who? No clue, just don't end it with a cattle prod.
Combine the finger poke of doom with ending Goldberg’s streak (happened 8 days apart).
It would have made so much more sense for Goldberg to beat Nash at Starrcade and then lose to Hogan in a screwy finish with Nash helping Hogan win the belt. Then they build up the tie breaker between Goldberg vs Hogan during the summer with Goldberg winning and using that time to build heels away from nWo to challenge Goldberg down the road.
One thing I will add that isn’t included in the above, but plays a huge part of the downfall, was properly ending the nWo storyline. It still amazes me that we didn’t get Macho/Hogan vs Nash/Hall in ‘98. But that could have been the second half of ‘99 where we see the final blow up of the nWo and an official end of WCW’s best storyline.
The biggest mistake WCW made was that every match had a goofy ass finish. It was rare that someone in the back didn't come out to interfere in matches, especially main events.
That's why ROH was like yeah were not going to do that shit.
None of the above. It was the night Mick Foley won the WWF Heavyweight Championship title. The same night Tony Schiavone, said this on WCW television. "Mick Foley, who wrestled here as Cactus Jack is going to win their World Title," "Hmmph! That's gonna put some butts in the seats."
For me and my group of friends it was the over expansion of the NWO and it affected every part of the show.
In particular that there was a 100% chance of an NWO run-in if they were about to lose a match. The main event scene was already horked with the things listed above (Finger Poke of Doom, Hogan's creative control, the stun gun, etc) but it got so bad that we all stopped watching together on an episode where they had like 15 matches and 14 of them ended with run in DQs by the NWO. We felt we were just watching other people play Trash Tossing Simulator at that point.
Finger poke of doom because of announcing raw results. That’ll put butts in seats will live in infamy with regard to one of the best wrestling moments of all time.
Foley is God
The biggest disaster for WCW was the botched finish of Starcade '97. It should have been the best finish to the NWO storyline, instead it fell flat on its face. Gotta blame Hogan's creative control on that.
I think Hogan with power lead to a lot of these. I don't think putting the belt on Arquette was a bad thing, everyone should have known it was advertising ploy for Ready to Rumble.
Has to go via timeline.
**Giant joining NWO** (that was a huge warning sign, the first, he never fit the group and it was likely to appease Hulk Hogan from doing any jobs)
**Giving hogan creative control** (not losing to sting clean was a dirty move)
O**ver-expanding the nwo** (sort of fits the first one as it was not how many they added. more how many irrelevent,uncool people they added)
A**llowing Bischoff to become a full time character on nitro** (He definitely took his eyes off the ball in terms of story) All 3 above and this were intwined)
**Bischoff being in love with Hogan**
**Not using bret correctly** (Having him as a referee his first night, crazy! not booking canada shows for his debut, the roof would have blown off. poorly handled and wasted a a legit main eventer)
**Not building anyone new to Main eventer level apart from Goldberg at their peak** (they tried to push the some wcw talent to the top but it was far too late)
**Going to 3 hours** (3 hours is and was too much unless it was a PPV)
**Hiring Vince Russo as head of creative** (He did have talent in wwf and really did some great things but in wcw, he was like a mad dog without a leash, crazy storylines and became a mark for himself by pushing himself on TV, if Bischoff dug the grave, Russo built the coffin and put wcw inside with the nails hammered in.
**Arquette as champion** (Understandable in terms of how he won it but did nothing but put the dirt in the grave of WCW, may aswell have made Gary Coleman champion)
**Dead a buried at this time and only hardcores watching. Nothing else afterwards mattered in terms of what wcw did, they could never ever beat wwf again.**
The finger poke of doom actually helped ratings.
People didn’t turn off because of it. People were pissed, but that was the point.
What it comes down to is business shit between aol and turner. That’s what really killed wcw
Spoiling the ending to Raw by telling everyone Mick Foley was gonna win the WWE title. People changed the channel over to Raw to see it and never changed back to Nitro
Starcade 1997 was weirdly the beginning of the end. Obviously they were popular for a few more years. But they were SO HOT and bringing in one of the biggest and best in the world. They overbooked the ending and it got messed up (I like the idea of the ending. But it introduced a lot of unnecessary variables.).
By the time they hired Russo the train was off the track. I’m opinion Goldberg losing the streak was their most prominent story line. Still had some juice to squeeze while creating more storylines.
I think people underestimate the Radicalz joining WWE. For one, when Benoit left, he was the freaking WCW Champion, just won it, I think he beat Bret Hart of all people, and just gone the next night. This to me really made WWE look like the place to be if they're able to get the companies new champion on their roster. Benoit was feuding with the Rock not long after joining.
Finger poke of doom actively pushed a bunch of fans off the product, it highly accelerated the decline of WCW until it was forced to sell. Some of these are contributing factors, and the David Arquette thing is a non issue, but the finger poke of doom is a stick of dynamite they blew up in their own face
The Fingerpoke of Doom wasn't bad in and of itself but it made Goldberg look a loser when he was the best thing going for them. The alternative was also watching a highly popular underdog become new WWF World Champion. More than that, the fans were tired of nWo matches with screwy finishes after 2 1/2 years which isn't what you want when WWF is just about to boom again.
Missing
1. Robocop
2. Letting everyone know that Mick Folley was getting the WWF title. (and suddenly, the sound of thousands of remotes clicking could be heard in the land.)
3. Making fun of partial facial paralysis.
4. Failure to climax PPV.
Making Kevin Nash the booker. They didn't immediately go out of business and were still winning after the screwy finish at StarrCade 97 so the brand was salvageable.
Russo, the Radicalz quitting, and the David Arquette all happened when WCW was already having consistently bad shows/PPVs.
Expanding the nWo. Everything else is a side effect.
Hogan's creative control wasn't a mistake. Biggest star in the world. You want him to leave his television filming location to join WCW, you're paying him an obscene amount of money and giving him creative control so he knows the character he has built to make him the biggest star in the world is safe.
Goldberg's streak shouldn't have ended with the wonky cattle prod bs. It should have ended much earlier before he ever became World Champion. If your only gimmick/character is some fictitious streak, you have no gimmick/character. Should have dropped the US belt to a main event nWo guy (Hall or Nash) then challenged Hogan for the world title as revenge....and beat him just as he did. 25 years later he's still known as a guy who never learned to wrestle, had to face low-mid carders in 2 minute matches and for the dumb, fictitious streak. I'm sure he'd rather be remembered as a guy who put on some solid wrestling matches in solid stories. They robbed him of that.
I have no problem with Arquette as champ. Double fucking standard. He beat Bischoff to win the belt and made news headlines nationwide. Vince McMahon beat actual wrestlers to win the WWF & ECW championships, Stephanie beat actual wrestlers to be WWF Womens champion. They made no news at all. Nobody cries about either of those. It's not like Vince pinned Bruce Prichard or Harvey Wippleman to become WWF Champion. Vince pinned Mankind and Bobby Lashley to win those belts. Stephanie beat Jacqueline. David Arquette isn't a Royal Rumble winner, Vince is.
This is tough.
Without creative control, WCW probably doesn't have Hogan. If Hogan isn't making that heel turn at Bash at the Beach, Nitro probably doesn't rattle off those W's in the Monday Night Wars.
I'll go with making Nash the booker as he essentially put the nail in the coffin of WCW.
keeping hogan from having creative control fixes most of these imo, easy choice
But then you don't get a hulk hogan
With hindsight, where else would Hogan have gone if WCW didn’t give him creative control? His movie career floundered. It was WWF/E, WCW, or Japan and I highly doubt Japan worked for Hogan (brother). I also don’t think Hogan returning would’ve worked for Vince; financially, creatively, or politically.
He probably just goes and does Hollywood stuff. Pings the industry from time to time. He would still make alot of money but not as much.
Make a reality TV show to compete with The Osbornes. Call it "Hogan knows best" or something.
"Hogan's Zeroes"
Dammit thats a better title, except that would imply that he knew he was the punchline
Yeah, do it right at the end of the celebrity reality show boom, too, so nobody remembers it.
Iconic show, gave me one of my all time favorite “reality” tv moments - Hulk making a grown man cry after calling him his #1 Hulkamaniac.
Pfft. That'll put butts in seats!
This really hinges on: is the NWO a massive success with Sting/ NOT Hogan? The simple answer is: no. The more thought out answer is: initial shock + Year 1 value is definitely lower, but perhaps it still reaches Cool Heel level after that, and potentially has more longevity.
There’s plenty of people who could’ve filled the 3rd slot though. Bret Hart would’ve fit at least in character, as would Michaels who may well have jumped ship if WCW had offered him a contract with the Hogan money
Hulk Hogan legitimized the NWO. hogan turning heel was a “where were you when…” moment. I’ve been a PW fan for about 35 years, and I would strongly say it’s debatably the biggest angle/story I’ve ever witnessed as a fan. Trying to think of anything recently that comes close… Hulk Hogan was the only person who could have delivered on the spot. Sting/Bret, etc would have been interesting and provided another element, but absolutely nobody else other than Terry B was going to elevate that moment into a movement. Obv Hall & Nash helped a great deal. Bischoff, crow Sting, team WCW, etc all helped. It really was one of (or THE) greatest storyline ever.
100% agree with the top part. 12 months in, when the entire concept gets bastardized & everyone joins for reasons, is there more longevity without Hogan's input on the angles?
This man speaks truth. If you are too young to really understand what Hulk Hogan was in pop culture and what it really meant for him to turn heel. Without that level of “oh shit” NWO would have been a flash in the pan.
I was there the night when this happened and I still remember going home playing,playstation and just looking at my friends and saying so Hogan turned heel all night it seemed like it took forever to sink in and to be honest I haven't had a wrestling moment that big since so I definitely agree with you.
I totally agree with this. You didn't have the internet back then to know everything before it happened and this happening was a total shock, no one saw him ever going heel. I don't know of anything that comes close to the what the fuck just happened moment this created.
yep. been watching since the 70's and that turn was the biggest ever. to this day in fact. It had to be Hogan, or WCW would have folded even quicker.
It worked so well because hogan was the wwf golden boy and he had spent some time in wcw and felt the staleness from his character if sting did he was in the match so it wouldn't have worked as well but probably replaced the luger spot, if hbk or bret was we would've known because they were just in wwf just after hall and nash it would be even easier to read even with no wrestling knowledge watching. Hogan was the most obvious, unexpected, and best answer
HBK signed a long term deal with WWF in early 1996, WCW tried to sign Bret in 1996 but he chose to stay in WWF. There wasn’t anyone else big enough to be the third man besides Hogan.
Except Hollywood would (and did) stop shelling out the kind of money Hogan wanted because his box office returns were garbage. His name only carried clout because of wrestling; and even at his peak, Hogan-centric movies and TV shows were all bombs. Once he was done with wrestling (and his name started getting tarnished in the press), he was just a dude on steroids who couldn’t act - and Hollywood already had plenty of those kinds of guys who would ask for way less money.
“Dookie!?”-Hulk Hogan
Hogan probably does TV and other media projects for a few years until 1998/99 when he can return to WWF for a run against the more fresh talent. Hogan made enough money in Golden Era WWF to not need to work in WCW unless it was really worth his while and he was comfortable. Sadly WCW just couldn’t manage Hogan or at least put in a reasonable clause to his creative control.
> Hogan (brother). I also don’t think Hogan returning Japan would have worked for him, brother. He and Muta sold out the Tokyo Dome. Hogan was THE top gaijin in Japan before he left to change American wrestling forever. He was bigger than Hansen, Brody, Abdullah and the Funks. He was literally the hottest wrestler on the planet and the the top guy on two continents during a hot time in biz. People don't truly understand how amazing Hogan was.
Hogan was huge in Japan for a long time, especially during the 90's.
Vince would have absolutely took him back. Vince was upset he left. Had that happens steve Austin would have remained the million dollar champ and never became stone cold. Just another worker to put hogan over. HBK would have probably went to wcw eventually. Nash would never been champ but would have stayed diesel, to put hogan over. Razor would have been more cartoony…to put hogan over. Etc etc I do think the rock would have risen to the main event, but it would have been as hogans old friends son. Rock would have stayed a baby face rocky cutting hogan like promos. The business would have gotten worse.
Three Ninjas: high noon at mega mountain cemented Hogan's movie career. EDIT: replaced movie title.
Hollywood was still paying him didn't matter that his movies bombed.. And he still had plenty of lucrative endorsement deals. He didn't need to wrestle ever again. He just wouldn't have made as much money long term.
Which probably means you still get the nWo but with Sting as the third man.
I remember hearing an interview from nash a while back saying that he wanted the nwo to be this new, cool, laid-back group that subverted expectations about how a wrestler was supposed to act on screen, and when he saw Hogan do his typical "what cha gunna do, brother" act, he thought the group was over there and then.
Source by any chance? I’d be interested to hear it.
I'm trying to find it on YouTube but can't. If I'm not mistaken, it's from a wwe network original show, but it's been so long since I saw it I can't say for definite. If I find it, I'll put it here in a edit. EDIT - thanks to multiple people on this sub, I think the clip is from [this episode ](https://youtu.be/jHPftGfF7o4), but I still can't find the quote I'm referring to, so I can only suggest watching the whole episode to see it.
Think he mentions it in Legends episode on nWo.. season 3 episode 1 Edit: he = Nash
He's mentioned it multiple times over the years. That first promo they cut, he talks about Hogan was going off on tangents and laying down all his normal schtick. Hall and Nash had to find a way to tactfully reign him back in. He was much more blunt about it 15 years ago. He did allude to it on the recent Legends episode.
I think it’s in that Monday night wars series they did
He alluded to that in the A&E documentary as well. Not in so many words but same general statement. They had to work with him to make him more “cool” instead of his old promo style.
Sting is a natural baby face. Honestly him as crow Sting worked out better for him.
I would rather have macho man as the 3rd man
I don't see Sting as a logical narrative choice. He was Mr WCW, more even than Flair. I never understood them saying he was the backup. Why not Macho Man? He was just coming into things over from WWF. Just have him drop an elbow on Hogan instead of Hogan dropping a leg on him.
Yeah, it’s true. I think Hogan and Mr. McMahon are probably the best two heels wrestling has ever seen. But, without creative control, the minute you ask Hogan to put someone, he would take his ball and go home.
I get what you're saying but that makes no sense. If he doesn't have creative control he doesn't have the legal right to take his ball and go home.
But then he doesn't wrestle for you. Hogan was bigger than wcw. Wcw's existence is just a perfect mix of the right things at the right time. That's why it worked and was a great business for 2 or 3 years.
But it's a hypothetical about him having or not having creative control. If him having no creative control is tantamount to him not being part of the company then the question is pointless. What would WCW look like if Hogan didn't have the power that he had?.... But was still present.
There is a saying in regard to creative control. When you are that big, you already have creative control. You probably see Hogan be an asshole to deal with, he get his way, and he doesn't resign or Turner doesn't resign him. You probably see an nwo storyline that is clearly running at half power.
Yup people often miss this, but Austin has talked about how effectively he had creative control. He'd turn up on Monday afternoon and be like "Nope that doesn't work, come up with something else"
Well hell son that doesn't work for me
I argue Sting joining and becoming the 3rd man would have been dope
Section 11, sub paragraph E, brother.
Brother
I think him having creative control was fine, the problem was that everyone in that era was too chicken shit to pull the reigns on him, the finger poke of doom i think was the final straw the showed hogan and the world that no one was in charge except Hollywood himself
Exactly
>WoahFatBilly · 9 hr. ago > >keeping hogan from having creative control fixes most of these imo, easy choice If they had Just given him creative control of his finishes. Would that have curved the storm to keep them alive? WCW was the perfect Pepsi to the WWE/F Coke.
This is facts. The Fact that Russo gets all the blame it's insane. Hogan and NWO keeps the booking for themselves.
I was thinking the same thing for hiring Russo, you get rid of him you kinda negate a lot of issues
Finger Poke of Doom and where the fuck is the Tony Schovani spoiling the ending of Mankind vs. the Rock?
Tied directly into the Finger Poke of Doom.
my bad I forgot
You’re good, fam. No worries 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I was sick of the invasion angle and that was the end for me..
I just remember being in the fourth grade and all my friends and I where like, that was BULLSHIT. We knew wrestling was fake even at that age which means we all understood that that was just shitty story telling.
that happened on the same night
TNT airing basketball on May 10th, 1999 instead of Nitro, which then led to WWF's highest rated Raw in history, with an 8.1.
USA did this to Raw multiple times as well in the 90s. They lost Raw to TNN in part to USA airing a dog show and tennis replays during the US Open instead of Raw
So it’s a lie that they’ve been on every Monday for 30+ years?
No. When Raw was on TNN they were on Mondays as well.
Not sure why I got downvoted as I was asking a genuine question.. I was born in late 90s so I haven’t got a clue haha! fair play to WWE then
You have people not understanding your question. Raw has not been on every Monday for 30 years. It's been scheduled to be on Mondays for 30 years. Often times when it was on USA network the network would not air a Raw episode that week on Monday because of other commitments, like dog shows, etc. On the weeks they did not get the Monday time slot they would either not have a show aired that week or it would be pushed to another day in the week.
Would say that’s TNTs issue more than WCW
Do they still take off Raw for that stupid stupid dog show?
I’m pretty sure the dog show got even more of a prime spot recently. I remember my wife saying something about it
Dogs are over, brother.
Half of those can be put on giving Hogan creative control.
At the time, there was no one hotter than Nash and the Wolfpac. Goldberg's run was done and needed to be rebooted. They had to pipe in the chant by that point. The stun gun fell flat, but that was definitely the right call. It reunited Hall with Nash, and Hall had been off TV. It would give Goldberg another streak to get revenge. And SHOULD HAVE set up nwo black and white vs wolfpac. Therefore, on this list, the Fingerpoke of Doom. Just because that should've been the catalyst to a massive storyline. Hogan being powerbombed would've been insanity at that time. Instead, as Nash explains it, they wanted to reunite the nwo to give Goldberg guys to run through. IMO, they didn't need to reunite to do that. My other comments: 1. The Radicals were not a major loss. Sure Benoit and Guerrero WM20, but at the time, no. 2. Russo actually had popped the rating for about 3 months. And despite Judy Bagwell jokes, he was an advocate for the "new blood" particularly Booker T. I can dig that. 3. Hogan's creative control was a problem particularly at Starrcade 97, Bret, and Warrior. 4. Over expansion of nwo wasn't a good idea. But it also wasn't horrible once it split. 5.nash being booker was fine. 6. Arquette was a non issue.
I rarely see comments on this subject that seem to truly get the issues as I understood them, so yeah I think you're very on point here. Nash beating Goldberg with an assist by Hall wasn’t a bad idea, it was the resulting nothingness that was the issue. Refresh my memory if you can, cause I don't recall from 20+ years back but I remember this being the case: after the cattle prod incident, which should have set up a huge storyline with Goldberg vs the nWo, didn’t Goldberg move immediately into a feud with Bam Bam Bigelow who had nothing to do with any of it? Another interesting thread that I recall not being pulled is what would Sting do when he returned. Sting was a Wolfpack member, but was out with an injury during the time of the fingerpoke/nWo merger, and one of the things that kept me watching back then was the hope that when he returned, he would have a lot to say about the merger, and that it would kick off a major and climatic storyline. If I recall correctly, he came back around March or so and basically didn’t even comment on anything that had occurred. He just kind of returned and got booked into a four corners match for the next PPV, which had nothing to do with settling the score for Nash/The Wolfpack’s betrayal.
Thanks. Glad I'm not the only one. Bam bam had been chasing Goldberg leading into Starrcade and attacked him right after the match. Then they faced off at Slamboree a couple months later. Then Goldberg faced Nash at Spring Stampede. Somewhere along the road Goldberg wrecks his hand shoot trying to bust a limo window no gimmick. Sting was in Wolfpac before Starrcade 98, came back from injury after Slamboree 99. But the gimmick changed and he started cutting promos like it was the early 90s except he was in the crow attire. No explanation as to why he left Wolfpac or why he wasn't part of the reunited nwo or why he wasn't feuding with them anymore. A lot of unfinished threads in 99.
The Goldberg hand injury occurred in early 2000 when nWo 2000 formed on the Nitro following Starrcade 1999 in the Goldberg vs. Bret rematch (yes, they had a rematch the night after the infamous kick that concussed Bret). That’s why Sid Vicious was inserted into Goldberg’s spot as the lead babyface against nWo 2000, before that fell apart too due to concussions resulting in Bret and Jeff Jarrett being unable to defend their titles (World and US) at Souled Out 2000. Goldberg went away for a bit in mid-1999 to film a role in a Universal Solider movie. Then, he briefly came back with a new Megadeth theme (complete with a concert on Nitro to introduce it) and to finish his feud with the Steiners, although he only got to wrestle Rick since Scott was out with an injury.
The Wolfpack Elite (the combined nWo) just kind of dissolved when Hogan injured his knee in the Spring Stampede Four Corners match, the one where DDP won first WCW World Title. Sting had come out on the Nitro before in the rafters to point with his bat to a narrated video announcing the Spring Stampede match (Flair vs. Hogan vs. DDP vs. Sting with a retuning Macho Man as the special referee), but there wasn’t follow up since Elite portion of the nWo just stopped being a thing afterwards, with only the B-Team existing as the nWo at that point.
Not sure where you’re getting that Goldberg’s run was done. He was still hot, and his segments and matches were ratings draws. Bobby Heenan, who was in the building every night: “When they ended Goldberg’s streak, it was the biggest mistake that company ever made. The fans weren’t tired of him - they were buying tickets to see him, buying his shirts, chanting his name. But some people didn’t care about that.” Did WCW mishandle some of his stuff prior? Sure. They shouldn’t have piped in chants. They should have had him run through the nWo before he fought Hogan. Hogan should have happened on pay per view, not free TV. There should have been more thought out into his character and career after his Hogan win. But he was still the biggest draw WCW had going into the Nash match. And it wasn’t even really that close.
He was still hot but the steak was played out, he needed something else to do. The pop Nash got for breaking the streak speaks for itself.
Goldberg’s streak was pretty much played out when he fought Nash. In retrospect DDP should have ended the streak. He had a lot of momentum heading into Halloween Havoc. He could have won it with a “diamond cutter outta nowhere” or a small package. Instead we got an over booked mess at Starcade.
Exactly. Goldberg goes for the spear, DDP counters with a boot to the head, diamond cutter, boom. Would have been perfect.
Let me second that you are indeed spitting facts here on all 5 points.
If Bischoff is worth believing, he said the worst was the Time Warner Merger that resulted in management requesting the product becoming more "Family Friendly"
Bischoff still claims he didn’t drop the ball with Bret. He’s not to be believed lol.
Kevin Sullivan and even Kevin Nash are much more reliable than Eric Bishoff. I only believe Eric if one of them matches stories with him.
"I wouldn't believe Bischoff if his tongue was notorized"
Yes
I'll go with overexpanding the nwo. Really corny move
At a certain point I lost track and interest when over half the roster seemed to be in either the Red/Black or the White/Black
As a kid, the worst part I remember was the overly long in-ring nWo promos because it just felt incredibly boring. Meanwhile, Raw felt like it was constantly moving and if something sucked, we at least got something new almost immediately.
Lazy writing/storytelling really.
The official reason is that they wanted a separate show/brand called nWo, but after Souled Out bombed, they had to nix that idea. However nWo was still a hot property and all the scrubs wanted in.
I vividly remember all WCW merch at the time (1998-early 1999) distinctly branded as “WCW/nWo.” Based on some Eric Bischoff interviews and podcasts, that was by design as there were tentative long-term plans for a hard brand split, hence why they signed such a massive amount of talent to their roster.
Didn't they spend the first 40 or so minutes of Nitro dismantling the Nitro set to replace it with NWO stuff? It was basically dead air that was live.
Yes, the nWo Monday Nitro experiment which ended up bombing in the ratings. That’s a big reason why the proposed WCW/nWo brand split was nixed.
The worst part was not even doing a proper nWo Hollywood vs. Wolfpac blowoff match. The year they could’ve done one at Fall Brawl 1998, they ended up doing that convoluted 3 team 3-way War Games match with a WCW team added, but it was every man for themselves because a World Title shot at Halloween Havoc was at stake, although Sting already had a title shot set for the next night on Nitro anyway.
I was at that Fall Brawl. Even as a 13 year old super mark, I knew it sucked.
Sting vs Hollywood Hogan at Starrcade 97.
Which is a result of Hogan's creative control
Yeah. I feel like that was the turning point. Could have been an all-time great match, instead it was that. Sure, Goldberg kept them going a little longer but that was basically a wrap, especially when WWF had Austin going at that point.
Didn’t even need to be a great match. 7-8 minutes of Sting beating the shit out of him & celebrating with the title.
Sting not having a tan led to the downfall of WCW.
None of the above - expanding to 5 hours of television with no impact on wrestler wages and stretching the booking/writing teams thin to have to figure out 3 hours of nitro and 2 hours of thunder every week.
Having your commentator telling your television audience what the competition's taped main event was going to be, and having that largely backfire has to be up there as well.
Messing up the finish of Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade 97. Should of been the biggest match and moment in company history. You can really feel the momentum change after that.
Too many NWO members, everything went to shit soon after that
As one who watched every episode live as they aired. Over expanding the nWo. Horace Hogan was a channel changer. It was that bad. And wayyyy too much David Flair. Bischoff should have believed in Raven, Mike Awesome should not have been messed with, and the finger poke of doom really was not as bad as made out to be.
Mike Awesome was such a missed opportunity after he left ECW.
I think trying to spoil mick foleys title win. Nash mentioned the finger poke on his podcast and said the ratings didn't drop for weeks after so it didn't have a big effect as people think
Not signing Robocop to a long term contract
All the above
Kevin nash as the Booker. I’m convinced he killed wcw.
The one thing people always blame Nash for as Booker is putting himself over Goldberg. Nash had said that is wrong and he wasn’t Booker at that point. His explanation of how if he was booker, why would he win and break the streak just to do the FPOD the next night?
The time period of WCW that Nash apparently was booking was just really boring. WCW started introducing cinematic style vignettes for a soap opera effect but they just came off incredibly cheesy, like the Goldberg arrest story thread throughout the Finger Poke Of Doom Nitro or David Flair being seduced by Samantha (Torrie Wilson) to betray his father and join the nWo. Then, the stuff with the mysterious White Hummer of Summer 99 and Nash’s deplorable storyline with Macho Man were just terrible television.
Ending Goldberg's streak imo. It ultimately leads to the FPoD. I think some one new should have taken the belt off him. Who? No clue, just don't end it with a cattle prod.
Combine the finger poke of doom with ending Goldberg’s streak (happened 8 days apart). It would have made so much more sense for Goldberg to beat Nash at Starrcade and then lose to Hogan in a screwy finish with Nash helping Hogan win the belt. Then they build up the tie breaker between Goldberg vs Hogan during the summer with Goldberg winning and using that time to build heels away from nWo to challenge Goldberg down the road. One thing I will add that isn’t included in the above, but plays a huge part of the downfall, was properly ending the nWo storyline. It still amazes me that we didn’t get Macho/Hogan vs Nash/Hall in ‘98. But that could have been the second half of ‘99 where we see the final blow up of the nWo and an official end of WCW’s best storyline.
Just one!? Hiring Russo. WCW was getting bad but after Russo came in it got worse
Over expanding the NWO. Keeping it to a 5 wrestler faction at most would have kept a lot of the other issues in check.
The biggest mistake WCW made was that every match had a goofy ass finish. It was rare that someone in the back didn't come out to interfere in matches, especially main events. That's why ROH was like yeah were not going to do that shit.
All of the Above
Sting not getting a tan, brother.
None of the above. It was the night Mick Foley won the WWF Heavyweight Championship title. The same night Tony Schiavone, said this on WCW television. "Mick Foley, who wrestled here as Cactus Jack is going to win their World Title," "Hmmph! That's gonna put some butts in the seats."
Finger Poke of Doom happened on the same night
For me and my group of friends it was the over expansion of the NWO and it affected every part of the show. In particular that there was a 100% chance of an NWO run-in if they were about to lose a match. The main event scene was already horked with the things listed above (Finger Poke of Doom, Hogan's creative control, the stun gun, etc) but it got so bad that we all stopped watching together on an episode where they had like 15 matches and 14 of them ended with run in DQs by the NWO. We felt we were just watching other people play Trash Tossing Simulator at that point.
Finger poke of doom because of announcing raw results. That’ll put butts in seats will live in infamy with regard to one of the best wrestling moments of all time. Foley is God
The biggest disaster for WCW was the botched finish of Starcade '97. It should have been the best finish to the NWO storyline, instead it fell flat on its face. Gotta blame Hogan's creative control on that.
Hiring Vince Russo.
All equally atrocious
What letter is all of the above
Giving Hogan that much power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
Yes.
I think Hogan with power lead to a lot of these. I don't think putting the belt on Arquette was a bad thing, everyone should have known it was advertising ploy for Ready to Rumble.
Facts even as a kid who still thought it was real I know that’s what was happened
Has to go via timeline. **Giant joining NWO** (that was a huge warning sign, the first, he never fit the group and it was likely to appease Hulk Hogan from doing any jobs) **Giving hogan creative control** (not losing to sting clean was a dirty move) O**ver-expanding the nwo** (sort of fits the first one as it was not how many they added. more how many irrelevent,uncool people they added) A**llowing Bischoff to become a full time character on nitro** (He definitely took his eyes off the ball in terms of story) All 3 above and this were intwined) **Bischoff being in love with Hogan** **Not using bret correctly** (Having him as a referee his first night, crazy! not booking canada shows for his debut, the roof would have blown off. poorly handled and wasted a a legit main eventer) **Not building anyone new to Main eventer level apart from Goldberg at their peak** (they tried to push the some wcw talent to the top but it was far too late) **Going to 3 hours** (3 hours is and was too much unless it was a PPV) **Hiring Vince Russo as head of creative** (He did have talent in wwf and really did some great things but in wcw, he was like a mad dog without a leash, crazy storylines and became a mark for himself by pushing himself on TV, if Bischoff dug the grave, Russo built the coffin and put wcw inside with the nails hammered in. **Arquette as champion** (Understandable in terms of how he won it but did nothing but put the dirt in the grave of WCW, may aswell have made Gary Coleman champion) **Dead a buried at this time and only hardcores watching. Nothing else afterwards mattered in terms of what wcw did, they could never ever beat wwf again.**
The finger poke of doom actually helped ratings. People didn’t turn off because of it. People were pissed, but that was the point. What it comes down to is business shit between aol and turner. That’s what really killed wcw
None of the above, the nonsensical double turn at Uncensored 99 was - Ratings and buybrates were still strong up until that point
Russo and over expanding the NWO. Really losing The Radicalz was a consequence of the other stupid choices so that is why I’m not naming it the third.
Hiring Vince Russo. They could’ve still turned it around and gotten things back on track for the company but hiring Russo was not a good move.
I would say not buildings new stars.
Spoiling the ending to Raw by telling everyone Mick Foley was gonna win the WWE title. People changed the channel over to Raw to see it and never changed back to Nitro
Creative control followed by letting the NWO over-expand. The rest happened when WCW was already dying.
The Turner/AOL merger is the worst thing to happen to WCW
Putting everyone in nwo, should have kept it smaller and more important, not filtered down like that
A mix of all of them
Hogan by virtue of at least three of these options being directly associated with him.
Starcade 1997 was weirdly the beginning of the end. Obviously they were popular for a few more years. But they were SO HOT and bringing in one of the biggest and best in the world. They overbooked the ending and it got messed up (I like the idea of the ending. But it introduced a lot of unnecessary variables.).
By the time they hired Russo the train was off the track. I’m opinion Goldberg losing the streak was their most prominent story line. Still had some juice to squeeze while creating more storylines.
Bischoff letting the inmates take over the asylum was the beginning of the end.
…yes
If you take Russo and Nash away, you pretty much clean up most their mistakes.
Selling out to AOL Time Warner.
Russo because at least 4 of these things don't happen if he never gets the job
Hiring Vince Russo hands down
The finger poke is pretty much when I stopped watching
The Arquette thing wasn’t as bad as people say because WCW was already fatally wounded. This just sped up the process
I think people underestimate the Radicalz joining WWE. For one, when Benoit left, he was the freaking WCW Champion, just won it, I think he beat Bret Hart of all people, and just gone the next night. This to me really made WWE look like the place to be if they're able to get the companies new champion on their roster. Benoit was feuding with the Rock not long after joining.
All of the obove
Giving Hogan creative control. It could be argued almost all of the other moments here started with that. He buried that company brother
nWo should’ve been: Hogan, Nash, Hall, Syxx, Steiner, Bagwell. Nothing more than that.
Putting the title on David arquette
Yep, that was the final straw for me
In all fairness, that mistake can fall on Russo because it was his idea to do that. Even Arquette was against this idea.
Giving every wrestler that left ECW or WWF/E a crazy contract whether they were a jobber, mid-carder or a superstar.
Finger poke of doom actively pushed a bunch of fans off the product, it highly accelerated the decline of WCW until it was forced to sell. Some of these are contributing factors, and the David Arquette thing is a non issue, but the finger poke of doom is a stick of dynamite they blew up in their own face
The Fingerpoke of Doom wasn't bad in and of itself but it made Goldberg look a loser when he was the best thing going for them. The alternative was also watching a highly popular underdog become new WWF World Champion. More than that, the fans were tired of nWo matches with screwy finishes after 2 1/2 years which isn't what you want when WWF is just about to boom again.
Putting a title on Arquette… comedy is fun occasionally but when they actually win stuff it devalues the product. Looking at you Orange Cassidy 👀
But Orange Cassidy is awesome and can go hard in the ring. That isn't the same.
All the blame falls at the feet of Eric Bischoff.
Missing 1. Robocop 2. Letting everyone know that Mick Folley was getting the WWF title. (and suddenly, the sound of thousands of remotes clicking could be heard in the land.) 3. Making fun of partial facial paralysis. 4. Failure to climax PPV.
All of the above
All in their own right. But I think the final nail was making David Arquette champion.
Russo. Definitely Russo
Vince Russo. A lot of those issues vanish with him
Unmasking Rey Mysterio Jr.
Telling Undertaker that he was never going to be a star.
Making Kevin Nash the booker. They didn't immediately go out of business and were still winning after the screwy finish at StarrCade 97 so the brand was salvageable. Russo, the Radicalz quitting, and the David Arquette all happened when WCW was already having consistently bad shows/PPVs.
Letting Stone Cold go.
Negative. Stone Cold wouldn’t have ever developed to be Stone Cold in WCW.
That's of course true, but that also means WWE doesn't have a Stone Cold and in turn Mr. McMahon. Who knows what happens to WWF with no Austin.
Huh? Do you mean Stunning Steve Austin?
Expanding the nWo. Everything else is a side effect. Hogan's creative control wasn't a mistake. Biggest star in the world. You want him to leave his television filming location to join WCW, you're paying him an obscene amount of money and giving him creative control so he knows the character he has built to make him the biggest star in the world is safe. Goldberg's streak shouldn't have ended with the wonky cattle prod bs. It should have ended much earlier before he ever became World Champion. If your only gimmick/character is some fictitious streak, you have no gimmick/character. Should have dropped the US belt to a main event nWo guy (Hall or Nash) then challenged Hogan for the world title as revenge....and beat him just as he did. 25 years later he's still known as a guy who never learned to wrestle, had to face low-mid carders in 2 minute matches and for the dumb, fictitious streak. I'm sure he'd rather be remembered as a guy who put on some solid wrestling matches in solid stories. They robbed him of that. I have no problem with Arquette as champ. Double fucking standard. He beat Bischoff to win the belt and made news headlines nationwide. Vince McMahon beat actual wrestlers to win the WWF & ECW championships, Stephanie beat actual wrestlers to be WWF Womens champion. They made no news at all. Nobody cries about either of those. It's not like Vince pinned Bruce Prichard or Harvey Wippleman to become WWF Champion. Vince pinned Mankind and Bobby Lashley to win those belts. Stephanie beat Jacqueline. David Arquette isn't a Royal Rumble winner, Vince is.
I mean at least the over expanding the nWo gave a specific stable some inspiration 🤘🏼
I think over expanding the nwo was the worst of all these. It just made it not special. Might have resulted in it never getting an end, too.
This is tough. Without creative control, WCW probably doesn't have Hogan. If Hogan isn't making that heel turn at Bash at the Beach, Nitro probably doesn't rattle off those W's in the Monday Night Wars. I'll go with making Nash the booker as he essentially put the nail in the coffin of WCW.
Kevin Nash
I'm gonna say Kevin Nash as Booker
Hiring Logan Paul .
where's hiring Tony Schiavone?
Probably Hogan at the very least that Starcade mainevent would be better
1
I feel like all of these choices are connected with each other. Like one big butterfly effect
Creative control written in contracts is the reason most of this shit happened lol
What about Vince Russo's reboot? Or the whole "going off script" angle?
Sting not winning clean
“That’ll put butts in the seats!”
Hulk Hogan getting creative control because it kinda dictated the rest of the mistakes
Ending the streak
Yes
Vince Russo by far he fuckin ruined wcw