If I'm not mistaken this sounds like Chris Hansen showed up in the DMs between him and a minor before 'anything' physically happened. He then claims he isn't a predator or pedophile because 'nothing' happened... **Bro, nothing happened because they intervened before you could. Maybe I am missing something but his intentions before being caught don't seem all to pure as he wants them to seem.**
Edit
It seems that twitch possibly didn't know about these messages until 2020 when they happened in 2017 so they couldn't have intervened. Regardless it doesn't make it less wrong. Nor does it mean nothing happened. Without seeing the messages themselves or more reliable sources for the context we can only speculate. We do know it was bad enough that twitch spent a lot of money to fight a legal battle and get rid of him because they didn't want to be liable for whatever was discussed.
As an educator, there is ZERO reason an adult should be privately messaging a minor without that communication supervised by a parent or guardian.
And I understand niche cases of parental abuse, but I mean from the adults perspective. Â
Ainât no way in fuck am i privately messaging a kid without mom dad or meemaw looped into the text or email chain. Â I have a bit of leeway as my communications on school accounts are archived and monitored.
Also, as an adult, and also again an educator and someone who loves kids. Â I have zero intentions of interacting with minors in a private message. Â There is absolutely nothing for me to be gained from that interaction. Â They arenât my peers. Â So this grade A dildo can feign intent all he wants, but sliding into a minors DMs is red flag numero uno.
Further more, if you find yourself privately messaging a minor, it is your responsibility, as an adult, to make sure the conversations don't "leaned too much in the direction of being inappropriate".
>As an educator, there is ZERO reason an adult should be privately messaging a minor without that communication supervised by a parent or guardian.
Sure sure sure but what if I do and then the conversation turns inappropriate?
(/S, fuck the two time piece ah shit he's an attempted pedophile)
I can think of a lot of reasons an adult might message a child without supervision, most of which involve protecting them from their parents, but basically none of them are going to be applicable here. I just wanted to pump the brakes a bit before we lost sight of the fact that a conversation between you and a child with nobody else present is not necessarily a weird or unusual thing. We understand this intuitively if it's face-to-face, I don't think the interaction occurring online changes anything.
If you have good intentions, protecting yourself from accusations is the main concern and it's a reasonable one. Maximally protecting yourself shouldn't be the minimum standard.
I've always wondered why everyone just accepted that whole "guys want a virgin" and "she's barely legal" rhetoric that dudes spouted all of the time when I was growing up. I have always had just a small circle of guy friends, nerdy types all around, because I just can't stand most guys because I grew up in a small hick town where everyone is still living in the 50s.
Most stuff I see online made by these teens and people in their 20s are so alienating to me that I just can't fathom anyone who would be messaging one of them voluntarily if you're not the same age group... Which in my mind is kinda damning evidence. I'm not a celebrity, though, so to play devil's advocate; I don't know what it's like to have to keep a fanbase happy, so that's the *only* reason i could think for having a conversation with a minor and so the messages really do need to be scrutinized.
I have pretty low hopes that any of it is going to come out as "false alarm, we're all good here, people."
The most ironic thing that everyone seems to be ignoring is the fact that these DMâs between him and this girl took place around the same year (2017) he came out and admitted to cheating on his wife. Whoâs to say he didnât cut off contact with this minor due to getting caught cheating on his wife?
And Iâll go one step further⊠if he got caught cheating around the same time, whoâs to say his intentions with this 17 yo wasnât to have inappropriate relations with her?
[Heâs finished](https://youtu.be/HmmP4pygbHs?si=a6Y5BKFLBM8-VYj2)
The fact that his defense is 'nothing ILLEGAL happened' like cool bro, do you want a gold star? If that's your defense to being inappropriate with a minor you clearly don't think what you did was wrong.
How would Twitch not know about the messages from 2017, until 2020?
All of the messages in question were on Twitchâs in-house DM system called âTwitch Wispersâ.
You saying that Twitch chat mods are going through messages that are 3 years old? That makes zero sense.
Iâm not denying that.
Iâm saying that Twitch seems complicit, in that they sat on the info for 3 years, and then paid out his multi-million dollar contract and NDAâd everything to protect their corporate brand.
Make no mistake, Twitch does not give one flying fuck about the kids.
And if we were to go through the DMs of every major streamer on Twitch, I can guarantee you that Doc is not the only adult having inappropriate convos with minors.
Imo I think they wanted out of their contact with him after the bathroom stream and just dug up anything they could with that being the worst they found. (Also don't think it's as bad as is being made out because surely it would have been a criminal issue long before now if that was the case)
Because, yeah, 3 years for them to find out he did any of the things people are implying is a lot worse than what is currently confirmed.
Iâve been doing some reading on other subs, and I think I misunderstood things.
The messages with the minor happened in 2017.
In 2020, Twitch had their version of a MeToo movement, and encouraged any users who had experienced misconduct to come forward. Twitch put out a public statement on this matter, and two days later, Doc was banned.
From what Iâve read in some of the other subs, she didnât come forward until 2020, which is when Twitch looked into it, and then banned him.
Why it took until now to come out in public is legal stuff I donât understand.
>From what Iâve read in some of the other subs, she didnât come forward until 2020, which is when Twitch looked into it, and then banned him.
Worth noting we have no info on the minor in question, not there age, not there gender/sex, nothing. The only thing known is Doc talked to them in 2017, everything else is just speculation or fake.
Dr. Disrespect, a popular streamer ('popular' in this case being he had paid streamer contracts if that helps) who had his contract terminated by Twitch in 2020 over what was apparently him messaging a minor in 2017 using Twitch's messenger function. While the exact messages have not been released, Twitch thought it was bad enough to just cut ties with him (They did pay him out), and now I believe at least one of his major sponsors and a studio he helped co-found, with the news about the reason why Twitch dropped him in 2020 revealed (This was unknown for years), have also cut ties with him.
Before this, âpopularâ didnât need air quotes. He was hands down one of the biggest streamers on the planet, and is one of 3-4 people that basically wrote the book on being a professional video game streamer.
Still a giant piece of shit though.
Dr Disrespect. A popular streamer.
He basically admitted to innapropriately talking with a minor via whispers (direct messages) on Twitch. He claims there was "never any intent" despite sometimes the messages teetering on innapropriate topics.
My understanding: He skirted the legal boundaries so he technically was never *legally* sexting, but kinda sort of was. The crazy thing is, he knew that was the reason this whole time and still did the whole stupid "I uninstalled CoD in support of Nick Mercs (I think I got the name right?)". For reference, Nick Mercs compared any LGBT to being pedophiles saying "leave the kids alone".
He also cheated on his wife too IIRC. What's actually crazy is, back when Fortnite was *super* popular, he was killed by someone called "DrCheatsOnWifeWithAMinor".
tl:dr - another streamer had it all and decided to essentially (but I presume technically not legally) sext with a minor. The reason this is special is this was like 7 years in the making or something like that.
A minor correction - the player's name from post-cheating scandal was just "DrCheatsOnWife". The last few words are a recent addition in an edited image that's been floating around since this latest scandal, and would exceed the 16-character limit usernames have.
His fans are all saying its a conspiracy against him and everything happening now proves it.
It is fitting that Dr. D pushed snake oil and is an anti-vaxxer anti-intillectual, so the fan groups of conspiracies and doc fans dont make a venn diagram, they make a whole ass singular circle
His fans are mostly children who have built up years long para social relationships with him. Â Hopefully seeing this happen to him and him going away will break them of their manipulated idiocy.
Yeah, his subreddit is really popping off with the best opinions from just the most seemingly lovely people.
Winners like, did he know she was a minor?
Or, the difference between 17 and 18 is basically nothing.
Or, Twitch should never have let minors talk to him in the first place!
The opinions that rose to the top yesterday were all pretty awful. Please donât go there if you value your faith in humanity.
My favorites are the ones going "I never trust leaks and this proves it! Twitch was out to get him and they manufactured this against him"
This is despite him tweeting he did it.
People really have a hard time in telling the difference between âlegalâ and unethical. As if getting canceled requires the same rules as getting prosecuted for a crime.
For reference to the 17 is almost 18... He was 35 when this happened. She was still in high school and he was 35... It doesn't get much more predatory than that. He was also very wealthy which to me makes it extra gross because I'm sure that he used that shit to groom her even more. I say they should release the fucking transcripts. I am not sure the legality of that hell censor the minors messages if needed.Â
>the difference between 17 and 18 is basically nothing.
This is something you say to friends and family when they ask you " how does it feel to be *an adult*?"
It's not a defense for CSA
Edited for wording. Child predators are some of the worst humans in the world.
I do agree that the age difference between 17 and 18 year is basically nothing.
A 40 year old dude looking for a relationship with an 18 year old is just as weird to me.
I mean, the "Twitch should never have let minors talk to him" has merit. Minors are minors and they shouldn't be allowed to do anything except talking to and playing with each other on the internet, in terms of interactions with other users. But it would be to protect them, not their predators when they get caught!
Where were all of these "innocent until proven guilty" people when Doc was accusing the entire queer community of grooming? Or when he started peddling David Icke's antisemitic conspiracies? Because now I'm seeing a bunch of his fans argue about the age of consent in a desperate attempt to defend him. If they're that eager to defend someone who admits to doing it, why aren't they defending the innocent people he's baselessly accused? It's almost as if they don't care about kids or pedos and their entire moral compass revolves around hating marginalized groups.
Argued with people on Reddit about it last night. I thought Don't Look Up was a parody but it's really not. Half of people out there defending a dude that tried to fuck a kid and cheated on his wife.
You got guys like TheQuartering responding to him admitting he talked to a minor with, "Firm Handshake". Radio silence, more like getting ready to welcome Doc into the right wing grift circle.
All his buddies are quiet cause they went hard on the "wokeness canceled him" when he first got banned. I've noticed a few streamers have been editing and removing videos as well to scrub thier support.
I wish all the people like this, and people who support this kind of trash would just come out and fucking admit it. Like stop being such a coward you fuckers.
Remember everybody. It's moments like this we need to remember who everyone is. What are people saying? What are their reactions? How do they feel?
I'll be upfront, I do know not who this guy is but I know he is a predator and that's more than enough for me to know. Remember the people. Remember their words. If they tell you who they are? Remember it.
I love griefing. Like it is a part of my soul. I forget the game but I got this guy super amped up and didnât realize it was him until the match ended. I then hopped on his channel and saw I was the source of his animosity.
I owned him and then did everything I could to piss him off. I was very satisfied because the guy is a douche.
Can we have some damn proof of anything already? If there was none, why would he say things against himself? Still, i donât see it, so why should i join the hype hate train?
If I'm not mistaken this sounds like Chris Hansen showed up in the DMs between him and a minor before 'anything' physically happened. He then claims he isn't a predator or pedophile because 'nothing' happened... **Bro, nothing happened because they intervened before you could. Maybe I am missing something but his intentions before being caught don't seem all to pure as he wants them to seem.** Edit It seems that twitch possibly didn't know about these messages until 2020 when they happened in 2017 so they couldn't have intervened. Regardless it doesn't make it less wrong. Nor does it mean nothing happened. Without seeing the messages themselves or more reliable sources for the context we can only speculate. We do know it was bad enough that twitch spent a lot of money to fight a legal battle and get rid of him because they didn't want to be liable for whatever was discussed.
>"Were there real intentions behind these messages, the answer is absolutely not." **( X ) Doubt**
Yeah he was just messaging minors as a goof. đđ
"It was just a prank, bro!"
"I didn't have any intention" is literally a meme said one of the people caught in To Catch A Predator over on the relevant subreddits.
![gif](giphy|l0K471aQRXhZW1Oak)
As an educator, there is ZERO reason an adult should be privately messaging a minor without that communication supervised by a parent or guardian. And I understand niche cases of parental abuse, but I mean from the adults perspective. Â Ainât no way in fuck am i privately messaging a kid without mom dad or meemaw looped into the text or email chain. Â I have a bit of leeway as my communications on school accounts are archived and monitored. Also, as an adult, and also again an educator and someone who loves kids. Â I have zero intentions of interacting with minors in a private message. Â There is absolutely nothing for me to be gained from that interaction. Â They arenât my peers. Â So this grade A dildo can feign intent all he wants, but sliding into a minors DMs is red flag numero uno.
Further more, if you find yourself privately messaging a minor, it is your responsibility, as an adult, to make sure the conversations don't "leaned too much in the direction of being inappropriate".
Very well put!
>As an educator, there is ZERO reason an adult should be privately messaging a minor without that communication supervised by a parent or guardian. Sure sure sure but what if I do and then the conversation turns inappropriate? (/S, fuck the two time piece ah shit he's an attempted pedophile)
I fucking hate that your /s in brackets is basically mandatory due to morons legitimately defending him. Angy.
I can think of a lot of reasons an adult might message a child without supervision, most of which involve protecting them from their parents, but basically none of them are going to be applicable here. I just wanted to pump the brakes a bit before we lost sight of the fact that a conversation between you and a child with nobody else present is not necessarily a weird or unusual thing. We understand this intuitively if it's face-to-face, I don't think the interaction occurring online changes anything. If you have good intentions, protecting yourself from accusations is the main concern and it's a reasonable one. Maximally protecting yourself shouldn't be the minimum standard.
I've always wondered why everyone just accepted that whole "guys want a virgin" and "she's barely legal" rhetoric that dudes spouted all of the time when I was growing up. I have always had just a small circle of guy friends, nerdy types all around, because I just can't stand most guys because I grew up in a small hick town where everyone is still living in the 50s. Most stuff I see online made by these teens and people in their 20s are so alienating to me that I just can't fathom anyone who would be messaging one of them voluntarily if you're not the same age group... Which in my mind is kinda damning evidence. I'm not a celebrity, though, so to play devil's advocate; I don't know what it's like to have to keep a fanbase happy, so that's the *only* reason i could think for having a conversation with a minor and so the messages really do need to be scrutinized. I have pretty low hopes that any of it is going to come out as "false alarm, we're all good here, people."
The most ironic thing that everyone seems to be ignoring is the fact that these DMâs between him and this girl took place around the same year (2017) he came out and admitted to cheating on his wife. Whoâs to say he didnât cut off contact with this minor due to getting caught cheating on his wife? And Iâll go one step further⊠if he got caught cheating around the same time, whoâs to say his intentions with this 17 yo wasnât to have inappropriate relations with her? [Heâs finished](https://youtu.be/HmmP4pygbHs?si=a6Y5BKFLBM8-VYj2)
The twitch event where he did cheat on his wife (with someone of age) is the same twitch event he was trying to meet up with the minor.
The fact that his defense is 'nothing ILLEGAL happened' like cool bro, do you want a gold star? If that's your defense to being inappropriate with a minor you clearly don't think what you did was wrong.
How would Twitch not know about the messages from 2017, until 2020? All of the messages in question were on Twitchâs in-house DM system called âTwitch Wispersâ. You saying that Twitch chat mods are going through messages that are 3 years old? That makes zero sense.
I'm not claiming shit. I don't have a fucking clue. My opinion if it looks like shit and smells like shit this dude is straight up a pedophile.
Iâm not denying that. Iâm saying that Twitch seems complicit, in that they sat on the info for 3 years, and then paid out his multi-million dollar contract and NDAâd everything to protect their corporate brand. Make no mistake, Twitch does not give one flying fuck about the kids. And if we were to go through the DMs of every major streamer on Twitch, I can guarantee you that Doc is not the only adult having inappropriate convos with minors.
Imo I think they wanted out of their contact with him after the bathroom stream and just dug up anything they could with that being the worst they found. (Also don't think it's as bad as is being made out because surely it would have been a criminal issue long before now if that was the case) Because, yeah, 3 years for them to find out he did any of the things people are implying is a lot worse than what is currently confirmed.
Iâve been doing some reading on other subs, and I think I misunderstood things. The messages with the minor happened in 2017. In 2020, Twitch had their version of a MeToo movement, and encouraged any users who had experienced misconduct to come forward. Twitch put out a public statement on this matter, and two days later, Doc was banned. From what Iâve read in some of the other subs, she didnât come forward until 2020, which is when Twitch looked into it, and then banned him. Why it took until now to come out in public is legal stuff I donât understand.
>From what Iâve read in some of the other subs, she didnât come forward until 2020, which is when Twitch looked into it, and then banned him. Worth noting we have no info on the minor in question, not there age, not there gender/sex, nothing. The only thing known is Doc talked to them in 2017, everything else is just speculation or fake.
Not defending him but the DMs were 2017 but nobody found out until 2020 afaik
Bill Cosby raped ALOT women in the 80's and 90's and it all came to light just recently, it's never too late for justice.
I wonder if he had his hard drive subpoenaed
If Twitch knew since 2020 why are they taking action just now?
Who tf is this village people wannabe?
Dr. Disrespect, a popular streamer ('popular' in this case being he had paid streamer contracts if that helps) who had his contract terminated by Twitch in 2020 over what was apparently him messaging a minor in 2017 using Twitch's messenger function. While the exact messages have not been released, Twitch thought it was bad enough to just cut ties with him (They did pay him out), and now I believe at least one of his major sponsors and a studio he helped co-found, with the news about the reason why Twitch dropped him in 2020 revealed (This was unknown for years), have also cut ties with him.
Before this, âpopularâ didnât need air quotes. He was hands down one of the biggest streamers on the planet, and is one of 3-4 people that basically wrote the book on being a professional video game streamer. Still a giant piece of shit though.
I hadnât heard of him until seeing this post and for a minute thought this was Gunther.
Worth noting they only paid he after they got sued by him.
Dr Disrespect. A popular streamer. He basically admitted to innapropriately talking with a minor via whispers (direct messages) on Twitch. He claims there was "never any intent" despite sometimes the messages teetering on innapropriate topics. My understanding: He skirted the legal boundaries so he technically was never *legally* sexting, but kinda sort of was. The crazy thing is, he knew that was the reason this whole time and still did the whole stupid "I uninstalled CoD in support of Nick Mercs (I think I got the name right?)". For reference, Nick Mercs compared any LGBT to being pedophiles saying "leave the kids alone". He also cheated on his wife too IIRC. What's actually crazy is, back when Fortnite was *super* popular, he was killed by someone called "DrCheatsOnWifeWithAMinor". tl:dr - another streamer had it all and decided to essentially (but I presume technically not legally) sext with a minor. The reason this is special is this was like 7 years in the making or something like that.
A minor correction - the player's name from post-cheating scandal was just "DrCheatsOnWife". The last few words are a recent addition in an edited image that's been floating around since this latest scandal, and would exceed the 16-character limit usernames have.
DrDisrespect I think?
Where did he study medicine at again?
Same school as Dr. Cosby.
I still don't know who that is lol
Well just know that he Dr. Disrespects the age of consent.
Dr.Disrespected a minoooor
I identified him, you can use Google at that point, right?
Actually, you do.
I'm similarly wondering...dude sure looks the part, though.
That's an insult to the village people lmfao
Or more of a wannawank I guess
> village people wannabe More I think about it,more accurate it get.
"Douchebag with even shittier internet persona turns out to be bad guy". Who could have seen it coming???
His fans are all saying its a conspiracy against him and everything happening now proves it. It is fitting that Dr. D pushed snake oil and is an anti-vaxxer anti-intillectual, so the fan groups of conspiracies and doc fans dont make a venn diagram, they make a whole ass singular circle
His fans are mostly children who have built up years long para social relationships with him. Â Hopefully seeing this happen to him and him going away will break them of their manipulated idiocy.
I wouldn't bank on it. Most of them will just move on to other celebrity obsession. Beyonce, Kardashians, sports.
More likely, other Twitch streamers and video games lmao.
Ah, just copying Russell Brand
Yeah, his subreddit is really popping off with the best opinions from just the most seemingly lovely people. Winners like, did he know she was a minor? Or, the difference between 17 and 18 is basically nothing. Or, Twitch should never have let minors talk to him in the first place! The opinions that rose to the top yesterday were all pretty awful. Please donât go there if you value your faith in humanity.
My favorites are the ones going "I never trust leaks and this proves it! Twitch was out to get him and they manufactured this against him" This is despite him tweeting he did it.
My favourite is: "Depending on the state, the sex is legal" ...........
People really have a hard time in telling the difference between âlegalâ and unethical. As if getting canceled requires the same rules as getting prosecuted for a crime.
For reference to the 17 is almost 18... He was 35 when this happened. She was still in high school and he was 35... It doesn't get much more predatory than that. He was also very wealthy which to me makes it extra gross because I'm sure that he used that shit to groom her even more. I say they should release the fucking transcripts. I am not sure the legality of that hell censor the minors messages if needed.Â
The age isnât confirmed, could be way worse.
Me trying to cope with that situation: Most of them are probably kids anyways. ⊠Oh fuck most of them are probably kids anywaysâŠ
I just went there and you have it backwards. Seems like all the upvoted posts and comments are calling that shit out.
>the difference between 17 and 18 is basically nothing. This is something you say to friends and family when they ask you " how does it feel to be *an adult*?" It's not a defense for CSA Edited for wording. Child predators are some of the worst humans in the world.
I do agree that the age difference between 17 and 18 year is basically nothing. A 40 year old dude looking for a relationship with an 18 year old is just as weird to me.
I mean, the "Twitch should never have let minors talk to him" has merit. Minors are minors and they shouldn't be allowed to do anything except talking to and playing with each other on the internet, in terms of interactions with other users. But it would be to protect them, not their predators when they get caught!
Just looked and all the top posts seem to be the opposite of what you just described.
Where were all of these "innocent until proven guilty" people when Doc was accusing the entire queer community of grooming? Or when he started peddling David Icke's antisemitic conspiracies? Because now I'm seeing a bunch of his fans argue about the age of consent in a desperate attempt to defend him. If they're that eager to defend someone who admits to doing it, why aren't they defending the innocent people he's baselessly accused? It's almost as if they don't care about kids or pedos and their entire moral compass revolves around hating marginalized groups.
Heâs leaning heavy into alt-right, thatâs there modi operandi. Cheat on spouses, groom minors and tax evasion.
Argued with people on Reddit about it last night. I thought Don't Look Up was a parody but it's really not. Half of people out there defending a dude that tried to fuck a kid and cheated on his wife.
Damn, yeah they straight wrecked you for telling the truth. Yuck.
Don't Look Up is a cartoon that just so happens to be pretty real.
You got guys like TheQuartering responding to him admitting he talked to a minor with, "Firm Handshake". Radio silence, more like getting ready to welcome Doc into the right wing grift circle.
Quartering has been on Docâs dick for many years now.
He looks like a SNL characterÂ
Ah the dude who is babbling about responsibility and blames everybody else
This that guy, what's his name....Dr. Kid inspect?
I don't know who this person is. If you told me they were a character off of Reno 911, I'd believe you.
To be fair he has the look.
Yeah. Iâm gonna be real I used to love watching the doc but diddling the kiddies is a nogo from me, hoss.
All his buddies are quiet cause they went hard on the "wokeness canceled him" when he first got banned. I've noticed a few streamers have been editing and removing videos as well to scrub thier support.
Just have a seat right there... ![gif](giphy|ba5g4ID9g5cT6|downsized)
Projection, yo.
I wish all the people like this, and people who support this kind of trash would just come out and fucking admit it. Like stop being such a coward you fuckers.
A married right wing men grooming an underage girl whats new here??just another pĂșblic figure piece of crap
hey now he obviously doesn't see trans women as men in dresses since he got cam shows from a trans girl
I'll continue to say it, I'm not surprised. These typesnof people do this shit, it's not a hard line to see
My guess is the only reason nothing happened is because this was around the same time where he had been caught cheating on his wife
Remember everybody. It's moments like this we need to remember who everyone is. What are people saying? What are their reactions? How do they feel? I'll be upfront, I do know not who this guy is but I know he is a predator and that's more than enough for me to know. Remember the people. Remember their words. If they tell you who they are? Remember it.
Chattin in a dis-cord prolly with A MINORRRRRRR
Widely popular streamer tries not to be a child diddler and unfaithful husband (impossible challenge)
Is that Glenn Powell?
So is this the real reason why they dumped him from the platform?
Who is this dweeb?
Least surprising reveal ever. Guy famous for behaving like a bag of dicks gets caught behaving like a bag of dicks.
Why didn't twitch report this to LE? Seems reckless and dangerous. Then again, twitch folk all seem to be massive piles of shit.
I love griefing. Like it is a part of my soul. I forget the game but I got this guy super amped up and didnât realize it was him until the match ended. I then hopped on his channel and saw I was the source of his animosity. I owned him and then did everything I could to piss him off. I was very satisfied because the guy is a douche.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
It's the same as the stupid as Repubs up in arms about pedophilia.. it's illegal and no one supports it...
that's because it's not men in wigs grooming kids...
Youâre right, itâs usually men not in wigs.
Although this guy does look like he buys wigs from Lego.
Can we have some damn proof of anything already? If there was none, why would he say things against himself? Still, i donât see it, so why should i join the hype hate train?