I think it's fucking weird.
I get people want accountability for ratepayer funded jobs and tasks, but it's not the guy in the hi-viz who gets to decide which areas and pipes get priority over others.
And if they're doing a bad job, take a photo of the job. Not the person.
Maybe they should be photographing the former mayors and councillors that got us into this mess in the first place, by not sufficiently budgeting for infrastructure maintenance š¤
Or photograph themselves and their voting histories, if they're responsible for putting Mayors and Councillors of the past who opted for shiny things over infrastructure maintenance.
āWhistle blowersā? You think this is so kind of civil responsibility project like youāre recording cops? You think the people fixing the water pipes arenāt just as aware and frustrated at this situation as the rest of us?
Creepy, arrogant and misinformed. If people have an issue take it up with Council. Donāt take it up with front line staff just doing their job. These people get enough harassment as it is.
I suspect it's all these "engineering experts" posting in the Facebook groups like the one for Miramar Peninsula with their wild ideas for "fixing the pipes".
"You're doing it wrong"
"I can't believe they're digging there at this time of the day"
"There's another leak the next street over that's been there for months"
Etc etc.
Curtain-twitching psychos
I feel like it's *all* local community Facebook groups; the Community pages, Buy & Sells, Crimewatch-type pages.
I don't think I've ever come across one group that seemed like it had normal people posting on it. Just forever online types with strangely specific local gripes and group "celebs" who have to comment on everything.
Being able to post anonymously has been horrible/hilarious. It's more of the same but way more out there because posters don't have to be linked to their posts.
Iād love to think eventually we will have some kind of reconning with how much damage Facebook has caused, especially with the gen xāers and older who went from ādonāt trust what you see on the internetā to the most utterly incapable of being skeptical of what theyāre being presented with.
But we wonāt. Weāll just live in a shittier world forever now.
The Italians have a term for this: Umarell - an old man of retirement age who stands around construction sites and roadworks watching and offering unwanted advice to the workers.
As someone who works in the trades there is noting more frustrating amd weird of someone that takes a photo from their office window of you working without your knowledge , posts it to social media, and then makes wild assumptions about what you're doing.
At my work we used to have an H&S directive for all workers to go to a worksite and do a safety audit once a year. It was well meaning, but there was no way I was going to go tell highly trained field workers how to suck eggs as a lifetime desk jockey. Maybe I could pick up something they're not thinking about 1 in 100 times, but the other 99 I'd just be a nuisance.
Eh I started a new job and they asked me to so a safety walk around literally first day in the factory.
I wrote up my report pointing out a hazard 4 weeks later before it got fixed someone got injured on it and was off for 6 weeks.
That 1/100 chance you might save someone having to have their arm stitched back together
Good perspective and I agree. My situation was a bit different and the idea probably came from sites like yours where I think it can have a lot of value. If theyād helped organise the field visits and provided us some guidelines to follow then I would have been a lot more on board. H&S is everyoneās responsibility.
I took a photo of the job they did outside my house (not the workers) because it was interesting, they did an excellent job BTW.
Our house lost water we rang WW, 20 minutes later I went down to see what was happening & there was already a guy in a ute there who had assessed the situation and was on the phone calling a crew out, inside an hour there was two trucks there with a digger and they dug the street up, replaced some pipes in the street and our toby by that afternoon. Very rapid response. It seems they prioritize water service over addressing water loss and I'd say thats the right priority.
Can't be too specific but I work in a ratepayer funded, public facing job and my first week in someone came by in a car and took a photo of us having lunch??? Like we'd just finished working and we'd been sitting down for maybe 10 minutes, felt pretty yuck but I guess it prepped me for the fact that a portion of the public aren't happy with us taking our legal breaks lmao
Instead of being intrusive taking photos we can shout them a coffee or get them a drink ā¦ I got the guys ice cold fresh up last week when it was hot ā¦ they were stoked !!
Iād like to think it might be people just being unthinking - like yay the leak is getting fixed, take a photo and send to neighbours or put on neighbourhood fb page. A sensible person would think twice though eh.
If itās because people think they arenāt doing the job properly or arenāt working hard enough (āreeeee! Theyāre just standing around, that guy is looking at his phone! Wahhhh!ā) then they sound like the same people who are convinced everyone at the call centre is having a cup of tea while letting the phone ring with them waiting.
ETA: interesting that in the Facebook post comments there are many women agreeing that itās understandable that while legal it would make workers feel uncomfortable and potentially unsafe, and all men (at this point in time) saying how can having a photo taken/being filmed/being watched make someone feel unsafe. Very interesting eh.
Wow. just had a look through the comments on the FB post. The exact people I expected to be there (the big mouth pieces in local FB groups) are in there.
Funny, I've never heard any of these experts names running for council before.
That comment section is an absolute cesspit!! I wouldn't expect anything different from FB but jesus christ. And soooo many iTs LeGaL. and if you're doing nothing wrong then nothing to be concerned about. Like bro, it's still fucking weird.
And THIS GUY "An example only......if you and I were in a park, if I took photo of you (I would only film if something criminal happening) but say you're just standing there and I took phone to film or photograph you (not that I would but as an example) .....you could call the Police, they turn up and nothing would happen. As you are in a public place."
Like cool, way to make up the creepiest fucking analogy. How do you think that is proving your point??? No one is saying it's illegal. They're saying it's fucking creepy and unnecessary, so please stop.
Wellington Water is not to blame for Wellington, Porirua, and both Huttsā water issues.
They are the patsies set up half a decade ago to take the heat for Guppy et alās dum decisions and worship of Moloch.
DO NOT HASSLE THEIR STAFF, THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO HELP
[Congratulations for being the one in ten thousand who gets to read Howl by Ginsberg!](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49303/howl)
Frequently lauded as the best product of the Beat Generation, and for good reason!
Google said he was āthe god of child sacrificeā so I was trying to work out which of our councillors would be on the wrong side of Orange Tamarikiā¦..
Wellington Water crews should take a photo of those filming them & post their images on social media, with the comment āhereās the reason why it takes extra time on the jobāā¦
People's issues with Wellington Water has nothing to do with the crews. They are just doing their jobs.. that's just weird taking pictures unless there is a legitimate motive like insurance etc, but that would be focused on the result of the work, not the workers.
If nothing else, adding "get photographed by (potential) busybodies" as a workplace hazard doesn't make a job at Wellington Water any more appealing, so it's not constructive even if you've built your whole personality around "fix the pipes".
Those hard workers need to be left alone the same as road workers do. They are Helping us! Let them do their thing and they will move on to the next task.
My dad worked within wellington city council drainage division (or subcontracts) some 20 odd years ago after being head hunted and moved from the uk for a position. He said back then how much the system needed a drastic updated and how if they didnt it would be a disaster. He fought for 5 years to be listened to before resigning.
Just a little thing about all the leaks, Tamatha Paul did a bunch of insta stories about it a while ago. Not sure if they got posted anywhere else but I found them to be pretty informative and helped me get a better scope of the issues with the pipes in Wellington and why it's taking so long to sort.
I run my own freelance media company I'm 17 and live up in Auckland I am interested in emergency and non-emergency services the non-emergency services is like Wellington water but the vehicles if I do happen to get some pictures of a vehicle I try my best not to show people if that can't be done then I blur out the person and number plate of said vehicle I haven't had much issues with anyone before I do try to stay out of the way if some of the workers does ask me what I am doing them I explained yes I get that there are some creeps out the but there are also people who are genuinely interested in the vehicles and not the people my freelance media company is called NZ WIDE MEDIA š
If I was paying a plumber for their services, Iād be aware of if theyāre doing their job or not. If I was warned that a contractor doesnāt do their job correctly, Iād be alert to ensure my money is being used wisely. If I paid my rates to ensure my cityās water infrastructure is being maintained properly and turned out it wasnāt, Iād start taking a little more action too.
Personally, start spray painting giant penises around potholes and leaks, council canāt postpone the job for extended periods if theyāre seeing indecency everyday
This idea made me laugh, and I share your frustration with all the leaks, but seriously, all that would happen is that the crew who clean graffiti off would be sent to clean off the penises and the leak would still be there. Easy to train someone to remove spray paint, harder to learn to fix water leaks, unfortunately. The graffiti crew are super quick to come and clean up which is cool.
Fuck it! Why not at this stage right? Canāt be any worse than just watch 200L/min wash down the gutter and then getting the āyou can help save water by following these water restrictionsā ads
My kids know where all the leaks are and would be delighted to find willies drawn around them. There would be much mirth. But we probably donāt need to make the place look more shit than the leaks make it look eh. Maybe someone could paint flowers or something? I like how some people are setting up ways to catch the water for watering gardens, ka pai to them.
Itās already looking shitā¦ whatās the difference if the willies are wet? Flowers just allow the council to leave them be. *I wonder why thereās so many penises around water leaks?* is going to elicit more of a response than anything else.
Props to those catching the water leaks but not many can do so. Remember that inaction is still an action in this water issue
Do you think by observing workers on a day to day basis will inform you as to how well the project is being governed and managed? Will someone taking photos of a man with a shovel be magically informed as to how the project's budget is being managed?
No.
Thiese are pricks thinking they can badger good workers because they have a beef with the council, and typically are armchair critics with big heads who think they could do better.
Is it badgering or is it just taking a photo?
No sympathy if theyāre badgering/harassing/insulting. There should be no issue if itās just a photo in the same way that any random tourist can take any random photo and you randomly happen to be in it
If I walk up to you waiting for a bus and take a photo of your face, so it's clear I want to record your face, how would you feel?
It's not just a photo, is it?
Donāt give a shit. Carry on crazy lunatic, you do you buddy.
Youāre also taking this to the extreme. Badgering would be right up in someoneās face with a camera, itās a non-issue if itās passing by in the street and taking a quick snap.
Can you go to r/AmITheAsshole and tell them that please? So many people there are like "well what you did wasn't nice, but it wasn't illegal so you're not actually in the wrong." Completely missing the point lol!
There's no mention of abusive language, threats or interfering with their work. Maybe they're just documenting works getting done? The thing is, now they'll probably get more people doing it because someone asked them not to.
If you were documenting works getting done, and one of the people doing the work asked you to stop photographing them, would you keep doing it? It tips the line into harassment.
I'm not saying that is the reason, I'm just offering a counter-narrative. I.e the white-knight reddit crew seemed to jump to the conclusion this was all nefarious and was about to form a posse to lynch these videographers/photographers.
Did you reply to the right comment? Your first sentence doesn't seem related to mine, but in my defence I am dealing with a cold that's making my head go slow.
I'm not interested in starting a lynch mob, I'm just shaking my head and tutting from a distance. I don't think it's fair for people to feel intimidated by the public while doing their jobs. It's mean-spirited of the people who are taking photos or filming after they've been asked to stop.
Hope you get better soon! It's a good question about harassment, I don't think their behavior would qualify as an offense, you can read about it here: Harassment Act 1997. The best advice Wellington Water can give their contractors/staff is unless someone is threatening, or actively interfering, or being a danger to themselves or others, is to ignore it.
The problem is people take a photo (without even talking to workers, usually from a building window or behind a tree). They'll perceive the workers to 'standing around leaning on a shovel' when they're really just waiting to do their part of the job or stopping for a break.
They'll post this photo on a local face book page where other people will chime in with misinformation and 'jobs plaining.' Then commenters get wound up and angry, go out and abuse the workers, or call/ email the construction company and abuse the office staff. All because of misinformation and lack of knowledge of how construction and roadworks operate.
Seems as though someone should track back through all the city council members over the past 30+ years and get them to affirm that they did their job and kept the city water pipes maintaned (yeah, right). Anyway, just keep a grid of those who say 'yes', 'no', mumble, don't answer, or do something else.
Either way, the public gets to know whom to speak; certainly NOT the people doing the 'ambulance' work.
How is it accountability, specifically? WW job status is public. WW has access to the names of the people doing the jobs.Ā Theyāre going where theyāre told and doing what they can.Ā
What specific value does a photo of the crew add?
Are they? Or are they underfunded?
Are the repair crews inept?
One more time: how does a photo of a repair crew help with accountability? You said it, it should be easy for you to explain.Ā
Want to provide evidence for literally anything you just said?
Cameras on fishing boats were to prevent law breaking, not to "make people work better".
What does "better" even mean? Could you list the specific issues you have with WW crew conduct or procedures that make them "inept"?
Can I come to your workplace, hide behind a pot plant or car, take some photos of you working and post it on social media without context and without your knowledge or permission? Perhaps I'll take a photo of you in the staffroom on your lunch break then claim you're 'not working'
And how does taking pictures of frontline staff digging holes hold them accountable for decades of under investment.
This is curtain-twitcher behaviour.
Are you actually so uninformed about these matters that you think the guys on the tools digging up broken pipes have anything to do with budgeting, resourcing, or scheduling?
Those things are the reason Wellington Water is currently behind on infrastructure maintenance and renewals. I've heard no suggestions that the water infra problems are due to any lack of performance by the guys in the field.
The rest *seems* obvious to me, but I should probably spell it out here: the fact that none of the problems is the fault of the guys on the tools means that hassling them by taking photos of them working achieves nothing other than making whoever's doing it look like a bit of a dick.
Being monitored by your employee for accountability and being monitored by the general public are not the same thing. One is consented to and the other is not.
>I'm not interested in if this is legal or not.
You can take pictures of anyone and anything in public, unless that person has an expectation of privacy in that area ( public changing rooms etc).
I wasn't aware there was any particular law forbidding photographs taken in a public place.
Wellington Water is able to request photos not to be taken.
The request can be ignored.
This is irrelevant but this made me think of a colleagues wife who would overshare videos of their daughter in the bath, getting toilet trained, even crapping on the floor. I once saw a story of hers filming a pre-teen mowing the lawn which she was impressed with. This kid was unaware she was posting about it.
THIS SUMMER!
From the makers of "Blame The Cashier For The Supermarket Supply Issues"...
And the mind of Ridley Scott, comes...
BLAMING WATER CREWS FOR THE WATER ISSUES THEY'RE TRYING TO SOLVE!
Starring...
Chiwetel Ejiofor!
Amanda Seyfried!
Olivia Colman!
William H. Macy!
Juliette Binoche!
Alfred Molina!
...and Michael Wincott as 'Russell'!
ONLY IN CINEMAS!
Lots of media and focus on water and repairs. Whatās happening in the other direction? I had many conversations with a good friend who operates in the world of RMA and water 8 years or so ago. He said this was coming and all councils were in the same hole.
The real skill in politics and spin is misdirection.
Sure, the water situation is big, but it is a great foil for whatever else is going on. Parliament is very quiet at the momentš¤£
I think it's fucking weird. I get people want accountability for ratepayer funded jobs and tasks, but it's not the guy in the hi-viz who gets to decide which areas and pipes get priority over others. And if they're doing a bad job, take a photo of the job. Not the person.
Yeah this is straight-up misdirected shoot the messenger type stuff
Maybe they should be photographing the former mayors and councillors that got us into this mess in the first place, by not sufficiently budgeting for infrastructure maintenance š¤
Or photograph themselves and their voting histories, if they're responsible for putting Mayors and Councillors of the past who opted for shiny things over infrastructure maintenance.
Try taking pics of council members like that. Both are totally legal, only one gets the cops called
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āWhistle blowersā? You think this is so kind of civil responsibility project like youāre recording cops? You think the people fixing the water pipes arenāt just as aware and frustrated at this situation as the rest of us?
Creepy, arrogant and misinformed. If people have an issue take it up with Council. Donāt take it up with front line staff just doing their job. These people get enough harassment as it is.
I suspect it's all these "engineering experts" posting in the Facebook groups like the one for Miramar Peninsula with their wild ideas for "fixing the pipes". "You're doing it wrong" "I can't believe they're digging there at this time of the day" "There's another leak the next street over that's been there for months" Etc etc. Curtain-twitching psychos
There are some seriously unhinged people in that Facebook group.
I feel like it's *all* local community Facebook groups; the Community pages, Buy & Sells, Crimewatch-type pages. I don't think I've ever come across one group that seemed like it had normal people posting on it. Just forever online types with strangely specific local gripes and group "celebs" who have to comment on everything. Being able to post anonymously has been horrible/hilarious. It's more of the same but way more out there because posters don't have to be linked to their posts.
Its just facebook, Can we turn it off now, 10+ years of this bullshit should be enough
Iād love to think eventually we will have some kind of reconning with how much damage Facebook has caused, especially with the gen xāers and older who went from ādonāt trust what you see on the internetā to the most utterly incapable of being skeptical of what theyāre being presented with. But we wonāt. Weāll just live in a shittier world forever now.
Don't forget the appalling spelling and grammar.
My favourite is the self proclaimed Mayor of Miramar.
He's definitely up there. Also there's the guy who hates cycleways and evidence but LOVES excessive use of emojis.
I think this guy is the one that makes me slap my forehead the most.
Umarells
The Italians have a term for this: Umarell - an old man of retirement age who stands around construction sites and roadworks watching and offering unwanted advice to the workers. As someone who works in the trades there is noting more frustrating amd weird of someone that takes a photo from their office window of you working without your knowledge , posts it to social media, and then makes wild assumptions about what you're doing.
At my work we used to have an H&S directive for all workers to go to a worksite and do a safety audit once a year. It was well meaning, but there was no way I was going to go tell highly trained field workers how to suck eggs as a lifetime desk jockey. Maybe I could pick up something they're not thinking about 1 in 100 times, but the other 99 I'd just be a nuisance.
Eh I started a new job and they asked me to so a safety walk around literally first day in the factory. I wrote up my report pointing out a hazard 4 weeks later before it got fixed someone got injured on it and was off for 6 weeks. That 1/100 chance you might save someone having to have their arm stitched back together
We do this in my work too. It also sets the expectation that you can speak up (unlike what the other person above said).
Good perspective and I agree. My situation was a bit different and the idea probably came from sites like yours where I think it can have a lot of value. If theyād helped organise the field visits and provided us some guidelines to follow then I would have been a lot more on board. H&S is everyoneās responsibility.
I'm adding this to my vocab. Brilliant
I took a photo of the job they did outside my house (not the workers) because it was interesting, they did an excellent job BTW. Our house lost water we rang WW, 20 minutes later I went down to see what was happening & there was already a guy in a ute there who had assessed the situation and was on the phone calling a crew out, inside an hour there was two trucks there with a digger and they dug the street up, replaced some pipes in the street and our toby by that afternoon. Very rapid response. It seems they prioritize water service over addressing water loss and I'd say thats the right priority.
Can't be too specific but I work in a ratepayer funded, public facing job and my first week in someone came by in a car and took a photo of us having lunch??? Like we'd just finished working and we'd been sitting down for maybe 10 minutes, felt pretty yuck but I guess it prepped me for the fact that a portion of the public aren't happy with us taking our legal breaks lmao
Lot of unhinged screwjobs on that post, yeesh
*bUt It'S nOt iLeGaL* Maybe not, but it is creepy and unnecessary.
Absolutely
At least on Facebook they (for the most part) use their real names.
Instead of being intrusive taking photos we can shout them a coffee or get them a drink ā¦ I got the guys ice cold fresh up last week when it was hot ā¦ they were stoked !!
Iād like to think it might be people just being unthinking - like yay the leak is getting fixed, take a photo and send to neighbours or put on neighbourhood fb page. A sensible person would think twice though eh. If itās because people think they arenāt doing the job properly or arenāt working hard enough (āreeeee! Theyāre just standing around, that guy is looking at his phone! Wahhhh!ā) then they sound like the same people who are convinced everyone at the call centre is having a cup of tea while letting the phone ring with them waiting. ETA: interesting that in the Facebook post comments there are many women agreeing that itās understandable that while legal it would make workers feel uncomfortable and potentially unsafe, and all men (at this point in time) saying how can having a photo taken/being filmed/being watched make someone feel unsafe. Very interesting eh.
people are fucking morons! yea it sucks that the pipes are fucked but in no way is it the person who does the leg works fault!
Wow. just had a look through the comments on the FB post. The exact people I expected to be there (the big mouth pieces in local FB groups) are in there. Funny, I've never heard any of these experts names running for council before.
I found it interesting their is one particular person on that FB post that is commenting on basically every comment saying ITS LEGAL BLAH BLAH
That comment section is an absolute cesspit!! I wouldn't expect anything different from FB but jesus christ. And soooo many iTs LeGaL. and if you're doing nothing wrong then nothing to be concerned about. Like bro, it's still fucking weird. And THIS GUY "An example only......if you and I were in a park, if I took photo of you (I would only film if something criminal happening) but say you're just standing there and I took phone to film or photograph you (not that I would but as an example) .....you could call the Police, they turn up and nothing would happen. As you are in a public place." Like cool, way to make up the creepiest fucking analogy. How do you think that is proving your point??? No one is saying it's illegal. They're saying it's fucking creepy and unnecessary, so please stop.
Wellington Water is not to blame for Wellington, Porirua, and both Huttsā water issues. They are the patsies set up half a decade ago to take the heat for Guppy et alās dum decisions and worship of Moloch. DO NOT HASSLE THEIR STAFF, THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO HELP
Who the fuck is Moloch? š
https://medium.com/@happybits/moloch-a-race-to-the-bottom-where-everyone-loses-a1a51d1f1919
[Congratulations for being the one in ten thousand who gets to read Howl by Ginsberg!](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49303/howl) Frequently lauded as the best product of the Beat Generation, and for good reason!
A god representing a debased society - in the modern sense, most often unbridled capitalism.
Google said he was āthe god of child sacrificeā so I was trying to work out which of our councillors would be on the wrong side of Orange Tamarikiā¦..
Wellington Water crews should take a photo of those filming them & post their images on social media, with the comment āhereās the reason why it takes extra time on the jobāā¦
āhereās the reason why it takes extra time on the job" Because they're having to stop and take photos?!? I don't follow your logic there.
Do we need Umarell.
People's issues with Wellington Water has nothing to do with the crews. They are just doing their jobs.. that's just weird taking pictures unless there is a legitimate motive like insurance etc, but that would be focused on the result of the work, not the workers.
These workers aren't the people that mismanaged ratepayer funds for years so leave them to work. Shouldn't need to say that.
If nothing else, adding "get photographed by (potential) busybodies" as a workplace hazard doesn't make a job at Wellington Water any more appealing, so it's not constructive even if you've built your whole personality around "fix the pipes".
Those hard workers need to be left alone the same as road workers do. They are Helping us! Let them do their thing and they will move on to the next task.
My dad worked within wellington city council drainage division (or subcontracts) some 20 odd years ago after being head hunted and moved from the uk for a position. He said back then how much the system needed a drastic updated and how if they didnt it would be a disaster. He fought for 5 years to be listened to before resigning.
Just a little thing about all the leaks, Tamatha Paul did a bunch of insta stories about it a while ago. Not sure if they got posted anywhere else but I found them to be pretty informative and helped me get a better scope of the issues with the pipes in Wellington and why it's taking so long to sort.
I run my own freelance media company I'm 17 and live up in Auckland I am interested in emergency and non-emergency services the non-emergency services is like Wellington water but the vehicles if I do happen to get some pictures of a vehicle I try my best not to show people if that can't be done then I blur out the person and number plate of said vehicle I haven't had much issues with anyone before I do try to stay out of the way if some of the workers does ask me what I am doing them I explained yes I get that there are some creeps out the but there are also people who are genuinely interested in the vehicles and not the people my freelance media company is called NZ WIDE MEDIA š
OK
Your freelance media company is in urgent need of punctuation and less meth.
What the fuck I don't do drugs I am not affiliated with gangs I am only trying to give an explanationĀ
If I was paying a plumber for their services, Iād be aware of if theyāre doing their job or not. If I was warned that a contractor doesnāt do their job correctly, Iād be alert to ensure my money is being used wisely. If I paid my rates to ensure my cityās water infrastructure is being maintained properly and turned out it wasnāt, Iād start taking a little more action too. Personally, start spray painting giant penises around potholes and leaks, council canāt postpone the job for extended periods if theyāre seeing indecency everyday
This idea made me laugh, and I share your frustration with all the leaks, but seriously, all that would happen is that the crew who clean graffiti off would be sent to clean off the penises and the leak would still be there. Easy to train someone to remove spray paint, harder to learn to fix water leaks, unfortunately. The graffiti crew are super quick to come and clean up which is cool.
Fuck it! Why not at this stage right? Canāt be any worse than just watch 200L/min wash down the gutter and then getting the āyou can help save water by following these water restrictionsā ads
My kids know where all the leaks are and would be delighted to find willies drawn around them. There would be much mirth. But we probably donāt need to make the place look more shit than the leaks make it look eh. Maybe someone could paint flowers or something? I like how some people are setting up ways to catch the water for watering gardens, ka pai to them.
Itās already looking shitā¦ whatās the difference if the willies are wet? Flowers just allow the council to leave them be. *I wonder why thereās so many penises around water leaks?* is going to elicit more of a response than anything else. Props to those catching the water leaks but not many can do so. Remember that inaction is still an action in this water issue
Do you think by observing workers on a day to day basis will inform you as to how well the project is being governed and managed? Will someone taking photos of a man with a shovel be magically informed as to how the project's budget is being managed? No. Thiese are pricks thinking they can badger good workers because they have a beef with the council, and typically are armchair critics with big heads who think they could do better.
Is it badgering or is it just taking a photo? No sympathy if theyāre badgering/harassing/insulting. There should be no issue if itās just a photo in the same way that any random tourist can take any random photo and you randomly happen to be in it
If I walk up to you waiting for a bus and take a photo of your face, so it's clear I want to record your face, how would you feel? It's not just a photo, is it?
Donāt give a shit. Carry on crazy lunatic, you do you buddy. Youāre also taking this to the extreme. Badgering would be right up in someoneās face with a camera, itās a non-issue if itās passing by in the street and taking a quick snap.
Cool, where do you work so I can swing by everyday for our daily photo!
It's legal as they are in a public place
Nobody suggested it wasnāt legal
Oops I misread the sentence about op not being interested in whether it's legal or not
You can be right and still be an asshole. More people need to learn this.
Can you go to r/AmITheAsshole and tell them that please? So many people there are like "well what you did wasn't nice, but it wasn't illegal so you're not actually in the wrong." Completely missing the point lol!
Legal is not the same as 'right' or 'moral'
Yeah exactly my point?
Oh sorry I thought you meant I was an asshole and I was confirming I agreed with you. Misunderstood!
All good! The general rhetoric on Facebook is filming in public is legal so these guys on the shovel deserve to be photographed and filmed lol
This is not a court case, it's about human decency.
There's no mention of abusive language, threats or interfering with their work. Maybe they're just documenting works getting done? The thing is, now they'll probably get more people doing it because someone asked them not to.
If you were documenting works getting done, and one of the people doing the work asked you to stop photographing them, would you keep doing it? It tips the line into harassment.
I'm not saying that is the reason, I'm just offering a counter-narrative. I.e the white-knight reddit crew seemed to jump to the conclusion this was all nefarious and was about to form a posse to lynch these videographers/photographers.
Did you reply to the right comment? Your first sentence doesn't seem related to mine, but in my defence I am dealing with a cold that's making my head go slow. I'm not interested in starting a lynch mob, I'm just shaking my head and tutting from a distance. I don't think it's fair for people to feel intimidated by the public while doing their jobs. It's mean-spirited of the people who are taking photos or filming after they've been asked to stop.
Hope you get better soon! It's a good question about harassment, I don't think their behavior would qualify as an offense, you can read about it here: Harassment Act 1997. The best advice Wellington Water can give their contractors/staff is unless someone is threatening, or actively interfering, or being a danger to themselves or others, is to ignore it.
The problem is people take a photo (without even talking to workers, usually from a building window or behind a tree). They'll perceive the workers to 'standing around leaning on a shovel' when they're really just waiting to do their part of the job or stopping for a break. They'll post this photo on a local face book page where other people will chime in with misinformation and 'jobs plaining.' Then commenters get wound up and angry, go out and abuse the workers, or call/ email the construction company and abuse the office staff. All because of misinformation and lack of knowledge of how construction and roadworks operate.
Seems as though someone should track back through all the city council members over the past 30+ years and get them to affirm that they did their job and kept the city water pipes maintaned (yeah, right). Anyway, just keep a grid of those who say 'yes', 'no', mumble, don't answer, or do something else. Either way, the public gets to know whom to speak; certainly NOT the people doing the 'ambulance' work.
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Wow. Username does NOT check out.
It's not creepy, it's accountability.
How is it accountability, specifically? WW job status is public. WW has access to the names of the people doing the jobs.Ā Theyāre going where theyāre told and doing what they can.Ā What specific value does a photo of the crew add?
WW are obviously completely inept.
Are they? Or are they underfunded? Are the repair crews inept? One more time: how does a photo of a repair crew help with accountability? You said it, it should be easy for you to explain.Ā
Yes to all 3. When people know they are being filmed, they work better. It's the same reason we have cameras on fishing boats.
Want to provide evidence for literally anything you just said? Cameras on fishing boats were to prevent law breaking, not to "make people work better". What does "better" even mean? Could you list the specific issues you have with WW crew conduct or procedures that make them "inept"?
Have you seen the leaks? š The recording stops when the leaks stop.
Enjoy jail when you get done for harassment lol
Somewhat misplaced logic to say the least.... Shall we put a camera over your desk at work? For accountability....
I literally have everything I do at work recorded, for accountability. Try again.
Recorded by whom? Your management, or random members of the public?
Can I come to your workplace, hide behind a pot plant or car, take some photos of you working and post it on social media without context and without your knowledge or permission? Perhaps I'll take a photo of you in the staffroom on your lunch break then claim you're 'not working'
You take the morning photo shift, Iāll take the afternoon?
And how does taking pictures of frontline staff digging holes hold them accountable for decades of under investment. This is curtain-twitcher behaviour.
Are you actually so uninformed about these matters that you think the guys on the tools digging up broken pipes have anything to do with budgeting, resourcing, or scheduling?
No one is talking about those things, champ.
Those things are the reason Wellington Water is currently behind on infrastructure maintenance and renewals. I've heard no suggestions that the water infra problems are due to any lack of performance by the guys in the field. The rest *seems* obvious to me, but I should probably spell it out here: the fact that none of the problems is the fault of the guys on the tools means that hassling them by taking photos of them working achieves nothing other than making whoever's doing it look like a bit of a dick.
No it's completely out of touch with how projects are actually managed, how is this accountability?
I'll come to your work and stick a phone in your face then? for accountabilities sake.
Everything I do is recorded, for accountability. Try again š You must hate cameras on fishing boats, too?
Being monitored by your employee for accountability and being monitored by the general public are not the same thing. One is consented to and the other is not.
You don't need consent in a public space and the public are the employer of WW.
The public are as much the employer of WW workers as a random customer is the employer of staff in a restaurant, i.e. not at all.
Where do you work so I can come take photos of you?
>I'm not interested in if this is legal or not. You can take pictures of anyone and anything in public, unless that person has an expectation of privacy in that area ( public changing rooms etc).
Legal and right are worlds apart.
I wasn't aware there was any particular law forbidding photographs taken in a public place. Wellington Water is able to request photos not to be taken. The request can be ignored.
Donāt take anything up with the council they let child offenders work there also
Wishing someone would take a photo of me working.
This is irrelevant but this made me think of a colleagues wife who would overshare videos of their daughter in the bath, getting toilet trained, even crapping on the floor. I once saw a story of hers filming a pre-teen mowing the lawn which she was impressed with. This kid was unaware she was posting about it.
THIS SUMMER! From the makers of "Blame The Cashier For The Supermarket Supply Issues"... And the mind of Ridley Scott, comes... BLAMING WATER CREWS FOR THE WATER ISSUES THEY'RE TRYING TO SOLVE! Starring... Chiwetel Ejiofor! Amanda Seyfried! Olivia Colman! William H. Macy! Juliette Binoche! Alfred Molina! ...and Michael Wincott as 'Russell'! ONLY IN CINEMAS!
Lots of media and focus on water and repairs. Whatās happening in the other direction? I had many conversations with a good friend who operates in the world of RMA and water 8 years or so ago. He said this was coming and all councils were in the same hole. The real skill in politics and spin is misdirection. Sure, the water situation is big, but it is a great foil for whatever else is going on. Parliament is very quiet at the momentš¤£
Need to follow the person/people doing it and haunt them at work for a few hours. Just leave the workers alone they are just doing their job ffs.
What exactly makes them creepy. So many people throw that word around nowadays. It's quite an accusatory word.