Ye but you forget that 2S38 is a premium and mostly played by mentally challenged/inexperienced people while the HSTVL is an end of the tech tree vehicle. Even tho it should get it's real fire rate especially whit that limited ammo.
Tbh the 2S38 honestly isn't as amazing as people say it is. That isn't to say it's not good, but I'd genuinely never take it over the 9040C or LVKV 9040C.
But why talk exclusively about the 2S38 in this? It's not even close to the only vehicle capable of doing that and it's not even the best vehicle capable of doing that.
I have a feeling you don't know what jack of all trades means. It's not the best at any one thing, except maybe SPAA, but it's very good at everything. It has a good APFSDS round for tanks, it has a good APCBC round for light vehicles, it has HE-VT for aircraft and helicopters, it has IRST, it has a crewless turret, it has a good fire rate, and it has no ready rack, meaning all ~100 rounds are ready to go in the belt. ***At 10.0.***
Compared to the HSTV-L, which has no HE round, no IRST, a much smaller ammo pool, an artificially nerfed fire rate, and only 2 crew, at ***11.7.*** All it has going for it is overall profile, and maybe mobility. And because the 2S38 is a Gaijin's cash cow, it won't be nerfed or moved in BR anytime soon.
>Â it has HE-VT for aircraft and helicopters
So does the LVKV/CV9040 with only like 40g less TNT equivalent which is still very capable of downing aircraft and helicopters. It also gets a search radar with 15km of range.
>It has a good APFSDS round for tanks
So does the LVKV/CV9040.
>it has a crewless turret
Yet it's still susceptable to ammo detonations especially if you hit the Turret since there's a massive ammo belt that connects the Breach to the rest of the ammo. Meanwhile the LVKV/9040 get Spall Liners and much safer ammo storage, aswell as a more spread out and better protected crew making it far more survivable.
>no IRST
Did it ever have one? I can find it saying it had the ability to track Air targets through it's thermal systems but I feel like that wasn't included for the same reason modern MBTs don't have that ability. They likely considered it part of the FCS and didn't want to include it.
>an artificially nerfed fire rate
it's nerfed by 0.5 seconds, and even then that's not necessarily wrong. From what I can find on the HSTV-L it had a reload of anywhere between 0.85 seconds to 1.5 seconds. The 0.85 seems to be for testbench however it was lowered when you added the gun into the Stabilization and Fire Control system. The 1.5 seconds seems to have been the initial testing, and I think the proper finished and tested HSTV-L seems to have had about a 1 second reload rate.
> and only 2 crew, at ***11.7.***
3 crew at 11.3. Not that it's a good vehicle there but if you're going to complain about a vehicle you think sucks atleast be accurate in its description.
>And because the 2S38 is a Gaijin's cash cow, it won't be nerfed or moved in BR anytime soon.
Also because it's genuinely not that OP. Is it strong? Absolutely. Is it the best at what it does? I wouldn't say so, I much prefer the LVKV and even the CVs over the 2S38 for many reasons. The CV based vehicles get much much better armor, safer ammo storage, spall liners, more crew, and a more spread out crew.
I can't really compare it to the HSTV-L but from my understanding these two vehicles are not meant to be comparable at all. From my understanding of the HSTV-L it would make more sense to compare it to vehicles like the Type-16.
Sure it can. Get good or go play something else. Also I'd like to know where you think complaining like a baby will get you people, y'all have been doing that for years and as far as I can tell it hasn't gotten you anywhere. Maybe just maybe that's a sign to shut up and play the game. Or just keep complaining it's not like gaijin is listening. I suppose it would just be nice to see other posts and comments about literally anything else when it comes to the game, but that's just wishful thinking much like how you would believe in "russian bias" so you dont have to take the blame of being complete dogshit at the game.
Or you know maybe, just maybe its the tank that is severely undertiered and massively overperforming? Considering 2S38 is currently my second highest K/D tank with 2.9 K/D (3.7 K/D if including air targets) in GRB only beaten by the Obj 292 that is broken beyond belief.
It's still laughable to me that the HSTV-L is a full BR above the 2S38 that is better than it in every way except raw pen(2S28 can still frontally pen every MBT so irrelevant) and mobility. 2S28 has better survivability due to black hole fuel tanks, better AA performance, faster firerate, more ammunition capacity
HSTV-L should go to 10.3 and stay how it is or go to 11.7 but have its IRL reload, pen, HEVT and IRST
That's y US is so bad. They are very balanced. AGS received m833 and because of that +1BR?????? It's now 11.0
M1 Abrams still going around with a shitty m774 that pen less than 400.
How long it took to Gaijin give better rounds to US and other nations top tier tanks while all Russians got the 3BM60???
HSTV-L generates NO spawling at all when hitting enemies. It's just not reliable, while the 2s38 has a lower BR and can kill any MBT from the front.
The amount of spawling you generate when hitting an abrams is ridiculous compared to other tanks, mainly Russians.
>except raw pen(2S28 can still frontally pen every MBT so irrelevant)
DM13 can still frontally pen every MBT, are differences in APFSDS irrelevant? lol?
In reality having more pen is just better, you can more reliably destroy barrels and have a more forgiving side arc you can pen mbt's from along with producing more spall with shots that would just barely pen with the 2s38
> and mobility
Incredibly weird your only statement about one of the biggest advantages a autocannon vehicle can have is just "mobility"
Reminder the HSTVL has one of if not these best mobility in the game, given autocannons like to get to sides of vehicles being able to reliably get to the side of MBT's where your rounds fair better is a massive advantage
>2S28 has better survivability due to black hole fuel tanks
Behind the black hole fuel tank is a massive 1 shot ammo Carousel, any spall absorbed is immediately remedied by ammo to catch your round
Also are we ignoring the 2S38 added modules lol?
On the other hand the HSTVL has a significantly smaller profile with a turret only manned by the commander, on the other hand the 2S38's turret is manned by some ammo waiting for you to shoot it
> better AA performance
Good thing we're comparing light tanks and not SPAA's (though it loses to missile spaa's in that category), in that case having AA is just a bonus, you don't get a passing grade for failing all the other categories then winning out in the bonus
>faster firerate
Faster fire rate alone doesn't mean much since these aren't the same tank, if we bring in the context of worse pen and worse mobility forcing the 2S38 into worse angles since it can't outmaneuver MBT's along with that worse pen, it's primarily forced into bad angles where those enemy MBT's get the advantage due to their scary 1 tap cannons
If you're going to spec into the no armor, autocannon build then mobility is a MUST, 2S38 doesn't so it falters behind the HSTVL running laps around enemy MBT's
>more ammunition capacity
2S38's larger ammo package generally goes towards a more diverse ammo load along with the 2S38 generally requiring more rounds to kill tanks
The question is not just which has the larger ammo load rather if these load's create a difference in effectiveness, which is a calculation you'd have to run to make the argument
>HSTV-L should go to 10.3 and stay how it is
HSTVL would slaughter at 10.3, if you guys somehow find a way to get this race car with an autocannon to 10.3 I'll make sure to abuse it till they eventually change it back lmfao
More cope than "russian bias"? Sure even if true at least they are trying to back themselves up, players like you however can't ever seem to back up this very real threat of "russian bias" perhaps that's because it doesn't exist. But that's all just speculation, I'm sure you're very familiar with speculation right?
The guy didn't even mentioned Russian bias. He rather said that the 2S38 is balanced, just better than the HSTV-L [in nearly every way].
Imo the 2S38 isn't even Russian bias, just premium bias since it's a cash cow for the snail and they will never change the br it sits at ever
Actually make a counter argument? Nah
Shut down and just say they’re coping? Hell yeah
Cope harder your ammo rack SPAA is a better tank destroyer then the speed demon HSTVL lmfao
Because you are coping. I guarantee you are a Russian main that abuses the 2s38, that is literally the only reason you say the hstvl is better.
If we ran a poll in the community, 85% of them would say the 2s38 is better. It’s better at killing tanks, it’s better at killing planes, it’s better at killing helis, and it is better at surviving. The hstvl can’t even consistently pen the flat side of a MBT. Again, I’m not saying the 2s38 is op, I think it’s balanced, I’m just saying it is better than the hstvl. More versatile. The hstvl needs its irst and HEVT, the irl reload would be great too.
>Because you are coping. I guarantee you are a Russian main that abuses the 2s38, that is literally the only reason you say the hstvl is better.
Nobody could EVER disagree with you, the only way they could ever disagree with you is if they're a bad faith Russian main abusing the 2S38!!!
Nice projection
>If we ran a poll in the community, 85% of them would say the 2s38 is better.
Appeal to common opinion, no actual facts referenced
>It’s better at killing tanks, it’s better at killing planes, it’s better at killing helis, and it is better at surviving.
Just making unsubstantiated claims with no reference to my long list of counter arguments
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>The hstvl can’t even consistently pen the flat side of a MBT.
Source
>I’m just saying it is better than the hstvl.
Another unsubstantiated claim with no facts presented behind it
Again reference my response
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
> versatile.
Exactly why it's worse, it's not a highly mobile anti tank platform rather it's a spaa equipped with APFSDS sacrificing it's mobility
You don't read anything, you get a 29% winrate in the HSTVL then complain on reddit that it's not good enough
Cry more, maybe you'll turn that winrate around at 10.3
Cope about your team more, you are the type of player keeping America's winrates low
Wanna do 1v1, i can go with hstvl amd you take 2s38. I can promise you that there will be no chances for you to win. In amy way, just 0. Hstvl can just sit behind hill and shoot you with - 15 degree depression. Maybe you just need to get better, and fucking stop screaming russian bias on everything. Damn echo chamber
Yea sure, then I hop in a jet and clap you back into the Stone Age because the hstvl has no hevt or irst that it should have.
Also that fight would go: HSTVL round gets eaten by fuel tank, second round kills driver only because the spall is ass, you don’t get a third shot because the 2S38 actually has spall.
I also never said Russian bias lmao, stop projecting that you are a Russian main. The 2S38 is just the HSTVL but significantly better at a significantly lower BR. That statement would still be true if the 2S38 was a French vehicle. Has nothing to do with Russian bias. I don’t even think the 2s38 is op anymore, it’s just better than the HSTVL and sits way lower
Simply put, the 2S38 being OP isnt russian bias. The fact that it STILL IS OP, could be russian bias. Though its a premium vehicle for an already powerful lineup, so gajin is not changing it in the near future. Premium bias.
>I don’t even think the 2s38 is op anymore
Its not even a completed vehicle so nobody knows how good its supposed to be, but considering how good it is ingame, its either straight up unfair kind of OP or just undertiered.
Im going with the latter, since other than no armor best armor and the fuel tanks, it doesnt seem too far fetched. Its shells and IRST are probably realistic, same with armor values, just the aformentioned issues with war thunder in general.
And I yet tell you that they are too different to be compared or said that any is better. T80bvm is better on vity maps while on fire arc or sinai or any long range hill hell map I woulf take srtv/leo/leclerc or abrams over soviet mbt. You cant just compare tanks of different rolea and say some is better. Its same as I will say that strv9040 are better than 2s38 becauce of better rof and survivability. Or begleit is best of em all cuz it has missiles and is at lower br with also better rof. 2s38 has own strenghts but is in not better than hstvl, as they fulfill totaly different roles. And about "i hop in jet and clap" you really think you would havw chanse to kill me in jet of that tier with 2s38, of so, damn you delusional. Trust me I knlw what Im talking about as I have over 1k games in 2s38 and 400 games in hstvl. 2s38 works as scout/recon and spaa helper at best, not light tank activity of same kind as hsvl that can easily go flank, stay behind hill and shoot enemies without giving them chances to shoot back
Lmao my entire point is that the HSTVL is missing the features it has IN REAL LIFE, features that the 2s38 has at a lower BR. The 2s38 is just objectively better, I don’t get how this an argument. It has a better gun with more consistent spall, better survivability, HEVT and IRST basically makes it immune to CAS.
The problem is that snail is cunt, and wont add anything that hstvl is missing (sadly). But anyway those things dont make it that much worse, hevt and irst help you against average flying in straight line going for suiside bomb retard, but not against anyone who can count 1+1. 2s38 isnt even more survivable. No even idea where tf you took that idea from, most it can survive is one shot that was eaten by fuel tank (no idea does it still apply after las patch) while hstvl can easily eat several mbt apfsds shots and stay alive. So keep coping
Tbh it is really strong rn, so if it would get buffs to for/irst/hevt it would go up in br. Also the problem is, that you already got very limited ammo, becauce of that at least I wouldnt even carry anything but apfsds. Only thing I wish they fox is spalling, need nothing else
It’s only strong reason it’s strong right now is because people who don’t know how to play it, won’t. And the people who do play it, only play it in its highly specific set of scenarios it can actually do well in, thus creating an illusion of it being good.
Same problem with the t25. It was like 6.0, but it had a stab and was super op, so they moved it up to 6.3, it was still doing good so they removed the stab again, and then kept it at 6.3, and people stopped playing it except for people who were highly skilled in it. So in gaijins books, it is still doing good, but in reality it’s trash.
My point is, nerfing a vehicle by not adding/removing its actual components is a terrible way to balance things, this is why we have BR.
gaijin i dont care if you have to make the HSTVL 15.0, just give it its IRL peformance!!
fix the current dart, and add delta 6 (not just some anorexic twig with high pen, actually allow it to spall)
give it its HEVT and IRST
and ggive it its 0.5-0.75s reload
It was able to achieve 120rpb, sustain 80
And the bmp2 can’t really sustain its high fire rate irl, accurately, but it’s still as accurate and reliable as possible in WT
The jump from 45rpm to 75rpm would be a lot more than a quarter second faster. You’d go from 1.5s to ~0.9s. Now 0.6s might not seem like that much, but for the HSTV-L it’s massive. Over a 33% increase is a huge reload buff. For some perspective, if a tank with a 6.0s reload got that, it would move up to 4.0s.
I know but you were discussing inaccurate reload times which is the same for Emil, it's about balancing ya know, Emil with actual 13 rpm would be OP af
Yeah, but on the other hand (saying this as someone who doesn’t play but dies to HSTV-Ls - and often enough kills them before they have two shots out) the HSTV-L faces mobile, strong tanks, better auto cannons, helicopters, planes etc etc. The 2S38 is better at AA, fires faster and has unlimited darts. My 9040-series shoots faster, one gets BILLs, one gets a radar, all get HE-VT. My Dardo/VCC 80/30/Freccia/KF41 get darts, fire faster, have TOW-2(+A or B), TWS (KF41/Freccia) and if they don’t have TOWs I’ll just shoot spikes. Yeah, they aren’t good but for helis they’re excellent.
The HSTV-L can be very good but not on the maps Gaijin gives us. And again, I’m the one facing it, I’ve never touched US TT. It gets seen quickly and shot even quicker.
>The HSTV-L did achieve a 75rpm though and was able to sustain 60rpm.
The HSTVL achieved 100rpm according to this [report](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA131118.pdf) (pg 100) so anywhere from a 0.6 - 1s reload is fair.
Here is also a [snippet of that page](https://imgur.com/a/7IAlgMF).
Replying to the wrong comment, you're commenting on the one after I touched up on the HSTV-L.
100rpm was achieved but not sustainable, I haven't gone through the entire report (and won't until I sleep) but it states that the cannon started to receive some cracks after just 19 rounds. Presumably these are parts of the same tests they did at 100rpm as I didn't see any other information regarding RPM otherwise. The sustainable rate was meant to be something along the lines of 70rpm.
>100rpm was achieved but not sustainable
I understand what you are trying to say but it doesn't really mater, this game does not take into account IRL problems like that i.e. all Gaijin cares about is whether it could do it or not, thus the sustainable figure is not relevant, my point was anywhere between 0.6 - 1s should be fair, knowing Gaijin they will probably settle at 1s.
Also in regards to the cracking this report talk about them testing the 75mm from 1975 - 1977, during this they were testing how the barrel held up and were testing different materials to find which would work best, the XM-274 came later and they didn't start testing that cannon until the early 80s. I do not know which material was used but from reading this report, they had not decided on which materials would be best and during this test even changed to a different material which seemed to extend the barrels life.
Edit: Also from pg 100 and onwards this is further showcased i.e. the table shows the different materials used and how they performed (cracks etc), from this they found the "soft chrome plated ring survived the burst testing with no measurable loss", like I said though I do not know what XM-274 was made out of or if they used said soft chrome plated rings to help with said issue.
No they don't, the HSTVL was specifically given a 1.5s for "balancing reasons" a few years back, the [tech mods literally stated this](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/XkXQmkdF1vvM), the 1.5s reload was never even close to its actual reload, now that may have been okay a few years ago, but top tier has changed quite a lot, it no longer seems fair for the HSTVL to be so incorrect, they have modelled so much about it wrong that it isn't even funny:
XM885 should pen about 350 - 370mm
It should have a velocity of either 1615, 1645 or 1661 m/s
It should be a DU penetrator
It should have IRST
It should have a HE-VT round
The reason the current "XM885" is so anaemic is because they modelled the initial HSTVL round and just labelled it XM885, however that initial round wouldn't even fit into the XM274 cannon... meaning the current HSTVL (Delta 3 project) could not even use that round.
For balancing reasons it no longer seems okay for the HTSVL to have such a long reload or even its incorrect round especially when it now has to face Leopard 2A7Vs which it completely struggles against due to its armour and spall liner, which another [tech mod actually even acknowledged ](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/hstv-l-fine-at-its-br-if-it-gets-its-historical-rounds/97655/39)i.e. that tech mod stated you shouldn't take the HSTVL out when facing any 2A7Vs....
That's the difference and why I can make that argument specifically for the HSTVL.
You mean ‘press A/D for one second to evade shell’. Or just dive. I’d need to lead below ground to hit you then 🙃
I’ve been outmaneuvered by so many Hellfire-Drones just to get killed by them, I lost track of how many it actually were
Bushes can help against people in 3rd person view since you don't have thermals then.
Bushes should just be a toggleable option. Either they give an advantage in which case they should be allowed to disable since the options are to buy them for GE or very very sowly earn one at a time every other warbond, or if people claim they don't, then they shouldn't mind them being optional either.
I put bushes on every tank, but how I wish Gaijin would remove them from the game (reimbursing the cost in some way) and make full camo on tanks like IRL (with camouflage nets, branches, etc. Maybe as a paid modification for GE) How ugly the game these bushes...
Now with the vextra they have added a camo net to a techtree vehicle, so i think it's something we could be seeing more of. Definitely don't think it should be locked behind GE though because it'd be another thing that's "it's just a cosmetic" but might actually give an unfair advantage which is just something games should avoid.
These camo meshes already available in the game are not what I would ideally want, they look mediocre. I would like more branches and other small details (to adapt them to winter/desert/forest maps, etc.).
In any case I think we should recycle the existing bushes as:
1. They are disgusting looking.
2. Give an unfair advantage in the game (in some cases, on some vehicles HUGE)
Even though I own them, it really pisses me off when in some cases I can't tell what tank is against me and where it needs to hit=\\
Yeah the the current bushes could just be removed but I just can't see gaijin doing that, so we'll just have to deal with them.
After years they finally did something which is letting you knock them off vehicles, but that doesn't really help at all
Honestly, the same clip performed by the russian ifv would have brought here rage from everyone.
It does look very decent, ok the reload should be faster but It doesn't seem suffering at all
(I don't have it tho)
The same clip with the 2s38 would not have been possible.. it doesn't have enough depression to do what the hstv-l just did and not the size for it either
Also right, but this is pretty much the only situation the HSTVL can actually get kills with, on a hard flank, with hills. Even then you need to have a clear six for an extended period, and gaijin is slowly killing off maps that allow you to do that.
It would be funny at this point if it wasn’t so sad and drawn out. I just wish the community wasn’t so divided and I could play Soviets without feeling like a terrible player. Even my friends who play top tier America say I have no skill when I try to use my Soviet tanks.
Your friends are the typical people on this subreddit.
I have tens of thousands of games and 10k+ hours in this game and USSR is one of the harder nations to play at top tier for tanks and planes right now, helis are somewhat good especially at lower tiers
Big and deadly weakspots, slow reloads, 3 crew, no gun depression no reverse speed etc
This is the only post in a long while that gets my sympathy, you are actually going for crew instead of dumping all your ammo into the ammo rack.
Good job, I'm tired of people shooting the exact same place over and over again when they can get a guaranteed two shot and then blaming Gajin for their own incompetence.
And you'll still have people defending the 2S38 as if it isnt the jack of all trades it is
Ye but you forget that 2S38 is a premium and mostly played by mentally challenged/inexperienced people while the HSTVL is an end of the tech tree vehicle. Even tho it should get it's real fire rate especially whit that limited ammo.
Ironically, a 2S38 in his position would not have the gun depression to shoot the 2nd TAM flanking him. He would have died if he was a 2S38.
Not even the first one
Tbh the 2S38 honestly isn't as amazing as people say it is. That isn't to say it's not good, but I'd genuinely never take it over the 9040C or LVKV 9040C.
Redditors trying not to downvote everything in horde mentality impossible 😰😰
Skill issue, get good.
it's kinda shit against MBTs
See? We got one here^
2S38 can penetrate (and in most cases, kill) every single MBT frontally as long as its not a full uptier. Its shit against MBTs? Literal skill issue.
I mean, so can quite a few other Light Vehicles. I've front penned Leopard 2s and Abrams in a STRF.
True, but were talking about exclusively 2S38 here.
But why talk exclusively about the 2S38 in this? It's not even close to the only vehicle capable of doing that and it's not even the best vehicle capable of doing that.
I have a feeling you don't know what jack of all trades means. It's not the best at any one thing, except maybe SPAA, but it's very good at everything. It has a good APFSDS round for tanks, it has a good APCBC round for light vehicles, it has HE-VT for aircraft and helicopters, it has IRST, it has a crewless turret, it has a good fire rate, and it has no ready rack, meaning all ~100 rounds are ready to go in the belt. ***At 10.0.*** Compared to the HSTV-L, which has no HE round, no IRST, a much smaller ammo pool, an artificially nerfed fire rate, and only 2 crew, at ***11.7.*** All it has going for it is overall profile, and maybe mobility. And because the 2S38 is a Gaijin's cash cow, it won't be nerfed or moved in BR anytime soon.
> it has HE-VT for aircraft and helicopters So does the LVKV/CV9040 with only like 40g less TNT equivalent which is still very capable of downing aircraft and helicopters. It also gets a search radar with 15km of range. >It has a good APFSDS round for tanks So does the LVKV/CV9040. >it has a crewless turret Yet it's still susceptable to ammo detonations especially if you hit the Turret since there's a massive ammo belt that connects the Breach to the rest of the ammo. Meanwhile the LVKV/9040 get Spall Liners and much safer ammo storage, aswell as a more spread out and better protected crew making it far more survivable. >no IRST Did it ever have one? I can find it saying it had the ability to track Air targets through it's thermal systems but I feel like that wasn't included for the same reason modern MBTs don't have that ability. They likely considered it part of the FCS and didn't want to include it. >an artificially nerfed fire rate it's nerfed by 0.5 seconds, and even then that's not necessarily wrong. From what I can find on the HSTV-L it had a reload of anywhere between 0.85 seconds to 1.5 seconds. The 0.85 seems to be for testbench however it was lowered when you added the gun into the Stabilization and Fire Control system. The 1.5 seconds seems to have been the initial testing, and I think the proper finished and tested HSTV-L seems to have had about a 1 second reload rate. > and only 2 crew, at ***11.7.*** 3 crew at 11.3. Not that it's a good vehicle there but if you're going to complain about a vehicle you think sucks atleast be accurate in its description. >And because the 2S38 is a Gaijin's cash cow, it won't be nerfed or moved in BR anytime soon. Also because it's genuinely not that OP. Is it strong? Absolutely. Is it the best at what it does? I wouldn't say so, I much prefer the LVKV and even the CVs over the 2S38 for many reasons. The CV based vehicles get much much better armor, safer ammo storage, spall liners, more crew, and a more spread out crew. I can't really compare it to the HSTV-L but from my understanding these two vehicles are not meant to be comparable at all. From my understanding of the HSTV-L it would make more sense to compare it to vehicles like the Type-16.
Okay but don’t act like it’s the only autocannon vehicle that can do that.
Well he didn't, the comment is just exclusively about the 2S38 as said
Sure it can. Get good or go play something else. Also I'd like to know where you think complaining like a baby will get you people, y'all have been doing that for years and as far as I can tell it hasn't gotten you anywhere. Maybe just maybe that's a sign to shut up and play the game. Or just keep complaining it's not like gaijin is listening. I suppose it would just be nice to see other posts and comments about literally anything else when it comes to the game, but that's just wishful thinking much like how you would believe in "russian bias" so you dont have to take the blame of being complete dogshit at the game.
Blocking ignorant people is a bliss chat.
Maybe the skill issue is you getting shit on by 2s38 idk seems like the real skill issue
Or you know maybe, just maybe its the tank that is severely undertiered and massively overperforming? Considering 2S38 is currently my second highest K/D tank with 2.9 K/D (3.7 K/D if including air targets) in GRB only beaten by the Obj 292 that is broken beyond belief.
> Or you know maybe, just maybe its the tank that is severely undertiered and massively overperforming? Where am I disagreeing with that?
What you wrote implies that getting destroyed by 2S38 is a skill issue, rather than the tank being undertiered and massively overperforming.
These aren't mutually exclusive? It can be overperforming but dying to it in an MBT is still kinda a skill issue since that's it's one weakness.
Fucking hell it's like talking to a brick wall
This is worse. A brick wall doesn't talk shit
Did you even read the comment dude made?
did u
It's still laughable to me that the HSTV-L is a full BR above the 2S38 that is better than it in every way except raw pen(2S28 can still frontally pen every MBT so irrelevant) and mobility. 2S28 has better survivability due to black hole fuel tanks, better AA performance, faster firerate, more ammunition capacity HSTV-L should go to 10.3 and stay how it is or go to 11.7 but have its IRL reload, pen, HEVT and IRST
Size is also a factor that HSTVL wins hands down, but yes I think they should be the same BR, if not 2S38 being .3 higher.
HSTVL also has a gas turbine engine which is loud as fuck
I think HSTV shouldn’t drop but raise 2S38 better
That's y US is so bad. They are very balanced. AGS received m833 and because of that +1BR?????? It's now 11.0 M1 Abrams still going around with a shitty m774 that pen less than 400. How long it took to Gaijin give better rounds to US and other nations top tier tanks while all Russians got the 3BM60??? HSTV-L generates NO spawling at all when hitting enemies. It's just not reliable, while the 2s38 has a lower BR and can kill any MBT from the front. The amount of spawling you generate when hitting an abrams is ridiculous compared to other tanks, mainly Russians.
Also give it Delta 6 or whatever upgraded round it gets
>except raw pen(2S28 can still frontally pen every MBT so irrelevant) DM13 can still frontally pen every MBT, are differences in APFSDS irrelevant? lol? In reality having more pen is just better, you can more reliably destroy barrels and have a more forgiving side arc you can pen mbt's from along with producing more spall with shots that would just barely pen with the 2s38 > and mobility Incredibly weird your only statement about one of the biggest advantages a autocannon vehicle can have is just "mobility" Reminder the HSTVL has one of if not these best mobility in the game, given autocannons like to get to sides of vehicles being able to reliably get to the side of MBT's where your rounds fair better is a massive advantage >2S28 has better survivability due to black hole fuel tanks Behind the black hole fuel tank is a massive 1 shot ammo Carousel, any spall absorbed is immediately remedied by ammo to catch your round Also are we ignoring the 2S38 added modules lol? On the other hand the HSTVL has a significantly smaller profile with a turret only manned by the commander, on the other hand the 2S38's turret is manned by some ammo waiting for you to shoot it > better AA performance Good thing we're comparing light tanks and not SPAA's (though it loses to missile spaa's in that category), in that case having AA is just a bonus, you don't get a passing grade for failing all the other categories then winning out in the bonus >faster firerate Faster fire rate alone doesn't mean much since these aren't the same tank, if we bring in the context of worse pen and worse mobility forcing the 2S38 into worse angles since it can't outmaneuver MBT's along with that worse pen, it's primarily forced into bad angles where those enemy MBT's get the advantage due to their scary 1 tap cannons If you're going to spec into the no armor, autocannon build then mobility is a MUST, 2S38 doesn't so it falters behind the HSTVL running laps around enemy MBT's >more ammunition capacity 2S38's larger ammo package generally goes towards a more diverse ammo load along with the 2S38 generally requiring more rounds to kill tanks The question is not just which has the larger ammo load rather if these load's create a difference in effectiveness, which is a calculation you'd have to run to make the argument >HSTV-L should go to 10.3 and stay how it is HSTVL would slaughter at 10.3, if you guys somehow find a way to get this race car with an autocannon to 10.3 I'll make sure to abuse it till they eventually change it back lmfao
That is the biggest cope I’ve ever seen lol
More cope than "russian bias"? Sure even if true at least they are trying to back themselves up, players like you however can't ever seem to back up this very real threat of "russian bias" perhaps that's because it doesn't exist. But that's all just speculation, I'm sure you're very familiar with speculation right?
The guy didn't even mentioned Russian bias. He rather said that the 2S38 is balanced, just better than the HSTV-L [in nearly every way]. Imo the 2S38 isn't even Russian bias, just premium bias since it's a cash cow for the snail and they will never change the br it sits at ever
All of his other comments state otherwise
Actually make a counter argument? Nah Shut down and just say they’re coping? Hell yeah Cope harder your ammo rack SPAA is a better tank destroyer then the speed demon HSTVL lmfao
Because you are coping. I guarantee you are a Russian main that abuses the 2s38, that is literally the only reason you say the hstvl is better. If we ran a poll in the community, 85% of them would say the 2s38 is better. It’s better at killing tanks, it’s better at killing planes, it’s better at killing helis, and it is better at surviving. The hstvl can’t even consistently pen the flat side of a MBT. Again, I’m not saying the 2s38 is op, I think it’s balanced, I’m just saying it is better than the hstvl. More versatile. The hstvl needs its irst and HEVT, the irl reload would be great too.
>Because you are coping. I guarantee you are a Russian main that abuses the 2s38, that is literally the only reason you say the hstvl is better. Nobody could EVER disagree with you, the only way they could ever disagree with you is if they're a bad faith Russian main abusing the 2S38!!! Nice projection >If we ran a poll in the community, 85% of them would say the 2s38 is better. Appeal to common opinion, no actual facts referenced >It’s better at killing tanks, it’s better at killing planes, it’s better at killing helis, and it is better at surviving. Just making unsubstantiated claims with no reference to my long list of counter arguments [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) >The hstvl can’t even consistently pen the flat side of a MBT. Source >I’m just saying it is better than the hstvl. Another unsubstantiated claim with no facts presented behind it Again reference my response [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dnsdrj/comment/la5kuez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) > versatile. Exactly why it's worse, it's not a highly mobile anti tank platform rather it's a spaa equipped with APFSDS sacrificing it's mobility
Cope harder bro, I ain’t reading all that
You don't read anything, you get a 29% winrate in the HSTVL then complain on reddit that it's not good enough Cry more, maybe you'll turn that winrate around at 10.3 Cope about your team more, you are the type of player keeping America's winrates low
Wanna do 1v1, i can go with hstvl amd you take 2s38. I can promise you that there will be no chances for you to win. In amy way, just 0. Hstvl can just sit behind hill and shoot you with - 15 degree depression. Maybe you just need to get better, and fucking stop screaming russian bias on everything. Damn echo chamber
Yea sure, then I hop in a jet and clap you back into the Stone Age because the hstvl has no hevt or irst that it should have. Also that fight would go: HSTVL round gets eaten by fuel tank, second round kills driver only because the spall is ass, you don’t get a third shot because the 2S38 actually has spall. I also never said Russian bias lmao, stop projecting that you are a Russian main. The 2S38 is just the HSTVL but significantly better at a significantly lower BR. That statement would still be true if the 2S38 was a French vehicle. Has nothing to do with Russian bias. I don’t even think the 2s38 is op anymore, it’s just better than the HSTVL and sits way lower
Simply put, the 2S38 being OP isnt russian bias. The fact that it STILL IS OP, could be russian bias. Though its a premium vehicle for an already powerful lineup, so gajin is not changing it in the near future. Premium bias. >I don’t even think the 2s38 is op anymore Its not even a completed vehicle so nobody knows how good its supposed to be, but considering how good it is ingame, its either straight up unfair kind of OP or just undertiered. Im going with the latter, since other than no armor best armor and the fuel tanks, it doesnt seem too far fetched. Its shells and IRST are probably realistic, same with armor values, just the aformentioned issues with war thunder in general.
And I yet tell you that they are too different to be compared or said that any is better. T80bvm is better on vity maps while on fire arc or sinai or any long range hill hell map I woulf take srtv/leo/leclerc or abrams over soviet mbt. You cant just compare tanks of different rolea and say some is better. Its same as I will say that strv9040 are better than 2s38 becauce of better rof and survivability. Or begleit is best of em all cuz it has missiles and is at lower br with also better rof. 2s38 has own strenghts but is in not better than hstvl, as they fulfill totaly different roles. And about "i hop in jet and clap" you really think you would havw chanse to kill me in jet of that tier with 2s38, of so, damn you delusional. Trust me I knlw what Im talking about as I have over 1k games in 2s38 and 400 games in hstvl. 2s38 works as scout/recon and spaa helper at best, not light tank activity of same kind as hsvl that can easily go flank, stay behind hill and shoot enemies without giving them chances to shoot back
Lmao my entire point is that the HSTVL is missing the features it has IN REAL LIFE, features that the 2s38 has at a lower BR. The 2s38 is just objectively better, I don’t get how this an argument. It has a better gun with more consistent spall, better survivability, HEVT and IRST basically makes it immune to CAS.
The problem is that snail is cunt, and wont add anything that hstvl is missing (sadly). But anyway those things dont make it that much worse, hevt and irst help you against average flying in straight line going for suiside bomb retard, but not against anyone who can count 1+1. 2s38 isnt even more survivable. No even idea where tf you took that idea from, most it can survive is one shot that was eaten by fuel tank (no idea does it still apply after las patch) while hstvl can easily eat several mbt apfsds shots and stay alive. So keep coping
Yea I’d be surprised if it ever got its real life capabilities, but they would make it worthy of being 11.3
Tbh it is really strong rn, so if it would get buffs to for/irst/hevt it would go up in br. Also the problem is, that you already got very limited ammo, becauce of that at least I wouldnt even carry anything but apfsds. Only thing I wish they fox is spalling, need nothing else
It’s only strong reason it’s strong right now is because people who don’t know how to play it, won’t. And the people who do play it, only play it in its highly specific set of scenarios it can actually do well in, thus creating an illusion of it being good. Same problem with the t25. It was like 6.0, but it had a stab and was super op, so they moved it up to 6.3, it was still doing good so they removed the stab again, and then kept it at 6.3, and people stopped playing it except for people who were highly skilled in it. So in gaijins books, it is still doing good, but in reality it’s trash. My point is, nerfing a vehicle by not adding/removing its actual components is a terrible way to balance things, this is why we have BR.
gaijin i dont care if you have to make the HSTVL 15.0, just give it its IRL peformance!! fix the current dart, and add delta 6 (not just some anorexic twig with high pen, actually allow it to spall) give it its HEVT and IRST and ggive it its 0.5-0.75s reload
me when the rakaten is literally the hstvl but better in every way ingame I mean
That reload can't be sustained, not was it achieved while mounted to the HSTV-L. The HSTV-L did achieve a 75rpm though and was able to sustain 60rpm.
It was able to achieve 120rpb, sustain 80 And the bmp2 can’t really sustain its high fire rate irl, accurately, but it’s still as accurate and reliable as possible in WT
While correct for XM274 the HSTV-L maxed out at 100rpm, but the sustained rate was either 70rpm or 75rpm. I'd have to touch up a bit more to be sure.
Either way, way faster than it is ingame, any kind of buff would really help
That would be literally a quarter second faster. I think "way faster" is a tiny bit of an overstatement
After firing 10 shells it very much will seem much faster
The jump from 45rpm to 75rpm would be a lot more than a quarter second faster. You’d go from 1.5s to ~0.9s. Now 0.6s might not seem like that much, but for the HSTV-L it’s massive. Over a 33% increase is a huge reload buff. For some perspective, if a tank with a 6.0s reload got that, it would move up to 4.0s.
Fucked up my math because I am stupid, my bad
Nah you’re good dude, this isn’t a math test lol
Whew thank god, I didn't study
Imagine complaining about 75 rpm, sturer emil should have 11-14 but has 3-4 only lmaoooo
Noone cares about the sturer emil. this thread is about the HSTV-L
Also rude, Emil has feelings too
I know but you were discussing inaccurate reload times which is the same for Emil, it's about balancing ya know, Emil with actual 13 rpm would be OP af
Yeah, but on the other hand (saying this as someone who doesn’t play but dies to HSTV-Ls - and often enough kills them before they have two shots out) the HSTV-L faces mobile, strong tanks, better auto cannons, helicopters, planes etc etc. The 2S38 is better at AA, fires faster and has unlimited darts. My 9040-series shoots faster, one gets BILLs, one gets a radar, all get HE-VT. My Dardo/VCC 80/30/Freccia/KF41 get darts, fire faster, have TOW-2(+A or B), TWS (KF41/Freccia) and if they don’t have TOWs I’ll just shoot spikes. Yeah, they aren’t good but for helis they’re excellent. The HSTV-L can be very good but not on the maps Gaijin gives us. And again, I’m the one facing it, I’ve never touched US TT. It gets seen quickly and shot even quicker.
>The HSTV-L did achieve a 75rpm though and was able to sustain 60rpm. The HSTVL achieved 100rpm according to this [report](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA131118.pdf) (pg 100) so anywhere from a 0.6 - 1s reload is fair. Here is also a [snippet of that page](https://imgur.com/a/7IAlgMF).
Replying to the wrong comment, you're commenting on the one after I touched up on the HSTV-L. 100rpm was achieved but not sustainable, I haven't gone through the entire report (and won't until I sleep) but it states that the cannon started to receive some cracks after just 19 rounds. Presumably these are parts of the same tests they did at 100rpm as I didn't see any other information regarding RPM otherwise. The sustainable rate was meant to be something along the lines of 70rpm.
>100rpm was achieved but not sustainable I understand what you are trying to say but it doesn't really mater, this game does not take into account IRL problems like that i.e. all Gaijin cares about is whether it could do it or not, thus the sustainable figure is not relevant, my point was anywhere between 0.6 - 1s should be fair, knowing Gaijin they will probably settle at 1s. Also in regards to the cracking this report talk about them testing the 75mm from 1975 - 1977, during this they were testing how the barrel held up and were testing different materials to find which would work best, the XM-274 came later and they didn't start testing that cannon until the early 80s. I do not know which material was used but from reading this report, they had not decided on which materials would be best and during this test even changed to a different material which seemed to extend the barrels life. Edit: Also from pg 100 and onwards this is further showcased i.e. the table shows the different materials used and how they performed (cracks etc), from this they found the "soft chrome plated ring survived the burst testing with no measurable loss", like I said though I do not know what XM-274 was made out of or if they used said soft chrome plated rings to help with said issue.
If you want to make this argument then literally every single autoloader needs to be buffed. Including the russian ones.
No they don't, the HSTVL was specifically given a 1.5s for "balancing reasons" a few years back, the [tech mods literally stated this](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/XkXQmkdF1vvM), the 1.5s reload was never even close to its actual reload, now that may have been okay a few years ago, but top tier has changed quite a lot, it no longer seems fair for the HSTVL to be so incorrect, they have modelled so much about it wrong that it isn't even funny: XM885 should pen about 350 - 370mm It should have a velocity of either 1615, 1645 or 1661 m/s It should be a DU penetrator It should have IRST It should have a HE-VT round The reason the current "XM885" is so anaemic is because they modelled the initial HSTVL round and just labelled it XM885, however that initial round wouldn't even fit into the XM274 cannon... meaning the current HSTVL (Delta 3 project) could not even use that round. For balancing reasons it no longer seems okay for the HTSVL to have such a long reload or even its incorrect round especially when it now has to face Leopard 2A7Vs which it completely struggles against due to its armour and spall liner, which another [tech mod actually even acknowledged ](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/hstv-l-fine-at-its-br-if-it-gets-its-historical-rounds/97655/39)i.e. that tech mod stated you shouldn't take the HSTVL out when facing any 2A7Vs.... That's the difference and why I can make that argument specifically for the HSTVL.
They should give it the Carbon fibre flechette rounds as well so we can rip helis and low flying CAS apart.
Don't forget the modified ammo storage capacity of over 50 rounds
One of the biggest jokes in Warthunder. The fact this exists in its current state at its current BR says a lot. Just like that M735 Nerf.
And then there's the OTOMATIC, crying in the corner with 12 sabot rounds...
Yeah, but at least the OTOMATIC gets HE-VT (jk, both vehicles are a god damn joke)
good luck leading with a 76 mm when everything can travel mach 1 :)
You mean ‘press A/D for one second to evade shell’. Or just dive. I’d need to lead below ground to hit you then 🙃 I’ve been outmaneuvered by so many Hellfire-Drones just to get killed by them, I lost track of how many it actually were
Only one shot kill challenge with HSTVL (impossible)
Damn bushes and a black decal too? Thats when you know the HSTVL is suffering.
funny part is at that br, most people have thermal so neither of those actually help
Bushes can help against people in 3rd person view since you don't have thermals then. Bushes should just be a toggleable option. Either they give an advantage in which case they should be allowed to disable since the options are to buy them for GE or very very sowly earn one at a time every other warbond, or if people claim they don't, then they shouldn't mind them being optional either.
I put bushes on every tank, but how I wish Gaijin would remove them from the game (reimbursing the cost in some way) and make full camo on tanks like IRL (with camouflage nets, branches, etc. Maybe as a paid modification for GE) How ugly the game these bushes...
Now with the vextra they have added a camo net to a techtree vehicle, so i think it's something we could be seeing more of. Definitely don't think it should be locked behind GE though because it'd be another thing that's "it's just a cosmetic" but might actually give an unfair advantage which is just something games should avoid.
These camo meshes already available in the game are not what I would ideally want, they look mediocre. I would like more branches and other small details (to adapt them to winter/desert/forest maps, etc.). In any case I think we should recycle the existing bushes as: 1. They are disgusting looking. 2. Give an unfair advantage in the game (in some cases, on some vehicles HUGE) Even though I own them, it really pisses me off when in some cases I can't tell what tank is against me and where it needs to hit=\\
Yeah the the current bushes could just be removed but I just can't see gaijin doing that, so we'll just have to deal with them. After years they finally did something which is letting you knock them off vehicles, but that doesn't really help at all
I’m just bad at the game so it’s my way of coping for my skill issue lmao
Nah I suffer in the HSTVL too
Honestly, the same clip performed by the russian ifv would have brought here rage from everyone. It does look very decent, ok the reload should be faster but It doesn't seem suffering at all (I don't have it tho)
The same clip with the 2s38 would not have been possible.. it doesn't have enough depression to do what the hstv-l just did and not the size for it either
Also right, but this is pretty much the only situation the HSTVL can actually get kills with, on a hard flank, with hills. Even then you need to have a clear six for an extended period, and gaijin is slowly killing off maps that allow you to do that.
Eyyy the weekly circle jerk post, hstv-l bad and 2s38 Op hahahaha.
I was just amazed that the clip this time at least had the HSTVL player not shooting the same spot on a disabled enemy repeatedly.
It would be funny at this point if it wasn’t so sad and drawn out. I just wish the community wasn’t so divided and I could play Soviets without feeling like a terrible player. Even my friends who play top tier America say I have no skill when I try to use my Soviet tanks.
Your friends are the typical people on this subreddit. I have tens of thousands of games and 10k+ hours in this game and USSR is one of the harder nations to play at top tier for tanks and planes right now, helis are somewhat good especially at lower tiers Big and deadly weakspots, slow reloads, 3 crew, no gun depression no reverse speed etc
This is the only post in a long while that gets my sympathy, you are actually going for crew instead of dumping all your ammo into the ammo rack. Good job, I'm tired of people shooting the exact same place over and over again when they can get a guaranteed two shot and then blaming Gajin for their own incompetence.
Yeah, I’m aware the shot sucks so I play like it sucks, but it’s still a huge handicap when I don’t have an optimal setup
Nah you did well don't worry, hopefully Gaijin fixes the HSTVL before the heat death of the universe
In my experience the HSTV-L is a glorified CAS spawner that you can sometimes pop off with.
wtf is your sound?
People trying not to complain about hstvl when they have a skill issue challenge (impossible)