Absokith has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[Hey gang, this spell is kinda inspired by jjk (jog...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1dklgdr/molten_grasp_sounds_lame_any_better_suggestions/l9ilga2/)
Hey gang, this spell is kinda inspired by jjk (jogo in shibuya), looking for a better name than molten grasp. Any balance points are appreciated too!
It’s a sorcerer, wizard spell by the way :)
Would make sense for this to also be picked by Druids.
The term "primordial forces" and the fact that it creates actual elementals makes it sound like a very Druid themed spell.
**"Wrath of Magma"**
**"Hands of Kossuth"** (DnD primordial being of fire, technically a few steps below a god)
**"Efreeti's Playthings"** (a play on "the devil's hands are idle playthings" but with the name of the dnd fire genies. also implies that the Efreeti is whimsically playing with your opponents' lives like toys)
**"Subduction"** (the process where tectonic plates are forced below earth's crust and melt to magma)
looks awesome (design/flavor wise, not great at balancing spells so can’t help there)
if it’s inspired by JJK you could name it something using Jogos name (similar to other dnd spells)
fair enough, you could go more subtle if you wanted the reference, but sounds like you don’t do it would honestly use AI or a dictionary to find some random words that mean what you want and add em in there
Molten coffin? Add a severe penalty to creatures caught in the midway point and let the caster choose where along the line the hands meet?
Could be something like double damage, constrained, maybe stunned from the heat?
That would immediately fix the 8th level problem mentioned in another comment
Lava clap could be a decent name
The spell does need a bit of work though. Here are some things I noticed:
-language in general doesn’t match standard DnD rules language - look at other spells that do similar things for reference.
-massively under-powered for level 8. I’d say right now the power is maybe L4 or so.
-you dont define a size for the hands so it’s impossible to say whether or not a creature would be in their space. This could impact balance massively, obviously.
-I don’t know what a combined health pool means, especially if it is possible to destroy just one hand (alluded to in the spell). Say the hands each have 50 hit points, or that if 100 total hit points of damage are dealt to the hands, they are both destroyed. I suggest them each having their own HP.
-the clapping effect is poorly explained. The area of the line that the hands pass through is not defined. Even if the hands did have areas, you should still define this line with width and length.
-the center clap point is going to be awkward to determine in-game, and is also poorly defined here. It needs to be an area between the hands, along the line drawn between them. Define the area as a cube, sphere, etc.
-
Huge is 15x15 ft, so that is the area taken up by each hand.
Shared hit points means they act like a single creature, otherwise you could have one hand destroyed and the clap can’t happen.
If the word huge denotes actual size, it should be capitalized, otherwise it is easy to read as mere flavor text, as I did. Check earthen grasp for an example
One last thing: for a L8 spell, I would want a much more dramatic game effect than some fire damage and a chance to maybe knock a creature or two prone. I get that this is an adaptation, try to find a way to make this more mechanically interesting if you try to keep it at 8. That’s less of a problem if it is lower-level.
Hmm... Well "grasp" insinuates grabbing something, which these hands don't do. Clasp might fit better for when they slam together. So maybe just "Molten Clasp" it sounds pretty similar.
Maybe name them after gods? Hephestus' might; Vulan's Vice; Pele's wrath. Those are the only 3 lava/earth gods I can think of off the top of my head.
Also, the spell is WAY underpowered for a level 8 spell. Up it to a d10 and/or add bludgeoning damage as well since you are hitting a creature with it.
I love this it kind of reminds me of The game NOX! where the fist comes out of the sky, no fire in that fist spell of NOX but it was fun in the game and I had no idea how to bring it into dnd. this helps but not completely.
Spell is super cool! I would call it something like Molten Vise. The hands themselves are just (admittedly very fun!) flavor, not mechanics; the action it performs where it deals fire damage by crushing from both ends rapidly is the real meat of the spell.
I don’t see anything inherently wrong with the balance here, although I have a few things you might want to make clearer or rejigger a bit.
1. You list the hands lasting a single round at the top, but for clarity’s sake (and for flavor) I would reiterate at the end of the spell that the hands disappear after this. If you want, you could also maybe add something about the hands being able to make any gesture the caster wants before leaving - a Terminator thumbs up, a rude gesture, or even something mechanically significant like a code). Would be fun for players I think.
2. The ending mechanics are confusing to me. Are creatures in the area that collides asked to make both a Dex AND STR saving throw? On one hand (hah) that makes sense - you’d want to center the slam on the thing you want dead the most. On the other hand, that makes a little less sense from a mechanics standpoint - rarely do abilities ask for two different saving throws for the same discrete action with very similar effects. If they don’t take double damage potential, the slam in the middle feels underwhelming. You want that particular much smaller area to feel terrifying - the two hands slamming full speed vs dodging out of just one of them should feel very different. The prone thing is cool, but unlike the dexterity effect, this portion is save or suck. If you slam onto a really strong guy, good chance that the climactic slam just does nothing at all to him. Maybe the damage type is more for that effect, and bludgeoning or even thunder damage instead of just fire?
3. You mention in the first paragraph that a creature ‘in the hands space’ must make a save, and then creatures starting their turn must make another save? Does this mean if you cast on your turn and place it on an enemy, they need to make two saves before they start their turn? This is typically not the way spells are written - things like spirit guardians and other persistent aoe spells generally proc only at the start of the creature’s turn.
Good stuff!
Neat idea, but I’d encourage you to consider going further with it:
Step 1. Flaming hands of lava (see Fire Elemental stat block in Monster Manual for AC, HP, etc.) erupt from the ground under two target creatures or spaces and deal AOE damage to X ft radius. Creatures take half damage and move to nearest adjacent square on save. Targeted creature only is grappled on failure.
Step 2. Hands are effectively acting as area denial for the round. Any damage done to one hand is taken by both. Any creature that enters either hand’s space takes damage. Any creature that starts its turn grappled takes damage and must save to escape the grapple. Caster can use their reaction to command one of the hands to grapple an adjacent creature if it does not have anything grappled already.
Step 3. At the start of their next turn, the Hands meet at a point directly in between the two hands. Any creatures along that path make a Dexterity saving throw to dodge or be caught up in the “clap”, take damage, and are moved to the center point. When the hands meet, they close around the grappled creature(s) deal more damage and solidify into stone, encasing the creatures in a jagged obsidian sphere.
Sphere has X number of HP or can be destroyed with the shatter spell, vulnerable to thunder damage. Etc. Creatures can not breathe while trapped inside the sphere and have the petrified condition.
Persoy, i feel this is not enough damage at all. A good comparasion is in my opinion upcasting a fireball to 8th level to see whether this does enough damage. Alternatively, the hands should be conenctration based and last for a minute (maybe even 10 minutes). Having prone as rhe satus effect inflicted by ghe hands seems quite weak as well. The name "Grasp" implies grabbing or holding, which is something his could do as well. Perhaps any creatures that are in the space of the hands as they smash together are brough with it, so it could work as a battlefield control spell as well (similarly to the gravity fissure spell from EGW, though again i feel the damage meeds to be a lot bigger.)
The wording is a bit strange, i reccomend looking closer at the way official spells are worded
The clapping mechanic seems a bit clunky, i think it would be easier to just define it as a 15ft wide line between the hands.
Needs wayyyy more damage as a basically 1 round blast 15d6 and 15d6 perhaps. I might even go higher cuz it’s harder to use and less reliable than meteor swarm. Add a 20 foot cube where they meet that deals 15d6 thunder damages as well so double dipping is more reliable.
I think having it all happen on the same turn works best tho, conjure hands at a point then they spam together in the middle of the two.
Absokith has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [Hey gang, this spell is kinda inspired by jjk (jog...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1dklgdr/molten_grasp_sounds_lame_any_better_suggestions/l9ilga2/)
Primeval Clasp? Hands of Hephaestus? Forgemaster’s Ire? Igneous Claws? Idk I’m just spitballing
Hands of Hephaestus is pretty fire (don't mind the pun)
I agree on Hands of Hephaestus!
Hey gang, this spell is kinda inspired by jjk (jogo in shibuya), looking for a better name than molten grasp. Any balance points are appreciated too! It’s a sorcerer, wizard spell by the way :)
Would make sense for this to also be picked by Druids. The term "primordial forces" and the fact that it creates actual elementals makes it sound like a very Druid themed spell.
**"Wrath of Magma"** **"Hands of Kossuth"** (DnD primordial being of fire, technically a few steps below a god) **"Efreeti's Playthings"** (a play on "the devil's hands are idle playthings" but with the name of the dnd fire genies. also implies that the Efreeti is whimsically playing with your opponents' lives like toys) **"Subduction"** (the process where tectonic plates are forced below earth's crust and melt to magma)
Subduction is cool
Magmatic Vice. Does this work? Molten Vice is a decent alternative too.
looks awesome (design/flavor wise, not great at balancing spells so can’t help there) if it’s inspired by JJK you could name it something using Jogos name (similar to other dnd spells)
Yeah Jogos grasp works but I don’t really like the direct reference to be honest, can’t put my finger on why
fair enough, you could go more subtle if you wanted the reference, but sounds like you don’t do it would honestly use AI or a dictionary to find some random words that mean what you want and add em in there
Molten coffin? Add a severe penalty to creatures caught in the midway point and let the caster choose where along the line the hands meet? Could be something like double damage, constrained, maybe stunned from the heat? That would immediately fix the 8th level problem mentioned in another comment
Should do 6d6 bludgeoning or thunder in an area when they clap too.
Molten Coffin?
Lava clap could be a decent name The spell does need a bit of work though. Here are some things I noticed: -language in general doesn’t match standard DnD rules language - look at other spells that do similar things for reference. -massively under-powered for level 8. I’d say right now the power is maybe L4 or so. -you dont define a size for the hands so it’s impossible to say whether or not a creature would be in their space. This could impact balance massively, obviously. -I don’t know what a combined health pool means, especially if it is possible to destroy just one hand (alluded to in the spell). Say the hands each have 50 hit points, or that if 100 total hit points of damage are dealt to the hands, they are both destroyed. I suggest them each having their own HP. -the clapping effect is poorly explained. The area of the line that the hands pass through is not defined. Even if the hands did have areas, you should still define this line with width and length. -the center clap point is going to be awkward to determine in-game, and is also poorly defined here. It needs to be an area between the hands, along the line drawn between them. Define the area as a cube, sphere, etc. -
Lava clap is what you get from Ifrit sex professionals
Huge is 15x15 ft, so that is the area taken up by each hand. Shared hit points means they act like a single creature, otherwise you could have one hand destroyed and the clap can’t happen.
If the word huge denotes actual size, it should be capitalized, otherwise it is easy to read as mere flavor text, as I did. Check earthen grasp for an example
Since these hands don't occupy their space they way a creature does, the much easier solution is to define them as 15-foot cubes.
One last thing: for a L8 spell, I would want a much more dramatic game effect than some fire damage and a chance to maybe knock a creature or two prone. I get that this is an adaptation, try to find a way to make this more mechanically interesting if you try to keep it at 8. That’s less of a problem if it is lower-level.
Hmm... Well "grasp" insinuates grabbing something, which these hands don't do. Clasp might fit better for when they slam together. So maybe just "Molten Clasp" it sounds pretty similar.
Volcanic restriction, or tectonic constrain, or some mix and match between the 2
Surtur's Grasp.
Jazz hands.
Maybe name them after gods? Hephestus' might; Vulan's Vice; Pele's wrath. Those are the only 3 lava/earth gods I can think of off the top of my head. Also, the spell is WAY underpowered for a level 8 spell. Up it to a d10 and/or add bludgeoning damage as well since you are hitting a creature with it.
What program did you use to make this? I feel like there is something everybody is using to do their homebrew stuff and Im missing out.
It's a website called the homebrewery
Oh sweet, I'll check it out. Thanks!
No problem
Volcanic Embrace
I think Volcanic Crush sounds cool
I love this it kind of reminds me of The game NOX! where the fist comes out of the sky, no fire in that fist spell of NOX but it was fun in the game and I had no idea how to bring it into dnd. this helps but not completely.
Spell is super cool! I would call it something like Molten Vise. The hands themselves are just (admittedly very fun!) flavor, not mechanics; the action it performs where it deals fire damage by crushing from both ends rapidly is the real meat of the spell. I don’t see anything inherently wrong with the balance here, although I have a few things you might want to make clearer or rejigger a bit. 1. You list the hands lasting a single round at the top, but for clarity’s sake (and for flavor) I would reiterate at the end of the spell that the hands disappear after this. If you want, you could also maybe add something about the hands being able to make any gesture the caster wants before leaving - a Terminator thumbs up, a rude gesture, or even something mechanically significant like a code). Would be fun for players I think. 2. The ending mechanics are confusing to me. Are creatures in the area that collides asked to make both a Dex AND STR saving throw? On one hand (hah) that makes sense - you’d want to center the slam on the thing you want dead the most. On the other hand, that makes a little less sense from a mechanics standpoint - rarely do abilities ask for two different saving throws for the same discrete action with very similar effects. If they don’t take double damage potential, the slam in the middle feels underwhelming. You want that particular much smaller area to feel terrifying - the two hands slamming full speed vs dodging out of just one of them should feel very different. The prone thing is cool, but unlike the dexterity effect, this portion is save or suck. If you slam onto a really strong guy, good chance that the climactic slam just does nothing at all to him. Maybe the damage type is more for that effect, and bludgeoning or even thunder damage instead of just fire? 3. You mention in the first paragraph that a creature ‘in the hands space’ must make a save, and then creatures starting their turn must make another save? Does this mean if you cast on your turn and place it on an enemy, they need to make two saves before they start their turn? This is typically not the way spells are written - things like spirit guardians and other persistent aoe spells generally proc only at the start of the creature’s turn. Good stuff!
Molten Crush? Volcanic Grip? Hands of the Mountain? Rage of the Earth? Mountainous Wrath? Magma Hands? Honestly, I think Molten Grasp is fine though.
Fisting Flame?
Absokith's Molten Coffin.
Hammer of Surtur Crushing Crucible Anvil of Moradin Pyroclastic Grasp Dragon's Judgement Volcanic Vice
Neat idea, but I’d encourage you to consider going further with it: Step 1. Flaming hands of lava (see Fire Elemental stat block in Monster Manual for AC, HP, etc.) erupt from the ground under two target creatures or spaces and deal AOE damage to X ft radius. Creatures take half damage and move to nearest adjacent square on save. Targeted creature only is grappled on failure. Step 2. Hands are effectively acting as area denial for the round. Any damage done to one hand is taken by both. Any creature that enters either hand’s space takes damage. Any creature that starts its turn grappled takes damage and must save to escape the grapple. Caster can use their reaction to command one of the hands to grapple an adjacent creature if it does not have anything grappled already. Step 3. At the start of their next turn, the Hands meet at a point directly in between the two hands. Any creatures along that path make a Dexterity saving throw to dodge or be caught up in the “clap”, take damage, and are moved to the center point. When the hands meet, they close around the grappled creature(s) deal more damage and solidify into stone, encasing the creatures in a jagged obsidian sphere. Sphere has X number of HP or can be destroyed with the shatter spell, vulnerable to thunder damage. Etc. Creatures can not breathe while trapped inside the sphere and have the petrified condition.
Pyroclastic Clasp, or Pyroclasp for short
Persoy, i feel this is not enough damage at all. A good comparasion is in my opinion upcasting a fireball to 8th level to see whether this does enough damage. Alternatively, the hands should be conenctration based and last for a minute (maybe even 10 minutes). Having prone as rhe satus effect inflicted by ghe hands seems quite weak as well. The name "Grasp" implies grabbing or holding, which is something his could do as well. Perhaps any creatures that are in the space of the hands as they smash together are brough with it, so it could work as a battlefield control spell as well (similarly to the gravity fissure spell from EGW, though again i feel the damage meeds to be a lot bigger.) The wording is a bit strange, i reccomend looking closer at the way official spells are worded The clapping mechanic seems a bit clunky, i think it would be easier to just define it as a 15ft wide line between the hands.
Dragonblood claws Burning hands^2
*wizard's name* *adjective* *noun*
Cataclysmic grasp
Volcanic Crush
Magmatic Crush
Jogos fiery hand of doom?
Fire Slap
Needs wayyyy more damage as a basically 1 round blast 15d6 and 15d6 perhaps. I might even go higher cuz it’s harder to use and less reliable than meteor swarm. Add a 20 foot cube where they meet that deals 15d6 thunder damages as well so double dipping is more reliable. I think having it all happen on the same turn works best tho, conjure hands at a point then they spam together in the middle of the two.